Chandrayaan-3 has landed; India has made it to the moon
August 23, 2023 7:23 AM Subscribe
The Indian Space Research Organization's Chandrayaan-3 Vikram lander has successfully touched down near the moon's south pole. This video of the ISRO control center during Vikram's descent and soft landing from earlier today is tense and joyous.
i have such a complicated set of feels about this:
- yay space!
- yay india!
- yay lunar south pole!
- fuck you modi go fling yourself into the sun
- yay water ice on the moon!
modi is a shitgibbon but for a few brief glimpses i saw the little boy inside him being very very excited and then he remembers he has to be proper and prime ministerial
so glad for all the people who made this happen, they deserve to be proud and happy and full of joy.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:02 AM on August 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
so glad for all the people who made this happen, they deserve to be proud and happy and full of joy.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:02 AM on August 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
yay India!
posted by supermedusa at 8:03 AM on August 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 8:03 AM on August 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
Here’s the lander’s exact position as per Wikipedia.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 8:06 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 8:06 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
i have such a complicated set of feels about this...
What you said, buddy, what you said.
But also, what supermedusa said as well. This is such a step forward.
posted by y2karl at 8:06 AM on August 23, 2023
What you said, buddy, what you said.
But also, what supermedusa said as well. This is such a step forward.
posted by y2karl at 8:06 AM on August 23, 2023
if anyone, anyone non-fascist was pm right now this would be my favorite thing ever, but instead i'm like well this is cool but also fuck hindutva and fuck modi for making people across the world think that hinduism is hindutva and hindutva is hinduism.
the second, no, millisecond that guy is out of office i am going to stan so hard for the isro. let's hope that 1: someday we won't have to think about that guy again 2: the isro keeps bagging more "first to [x]" prizes .
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 8:12 AM on August 23, 2023 [19 favorites]
the second, no, millisecond that guy is out of office i am going to stan so hard for the isro. let's hope that 1: someday we won't have to think about that guy again 2: the isro keeps bagging more "first to [x]" prizes .
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 8:12 AM on August 23, 2023 [19 favorites]
For anyone else in a hurry, the touchdown in the linked video starts about 44 minutes in. The applause starts at 44:49. MHoye's second link is to 40m in which gives you more context.
posted by Nelson at 8:21 AM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 8:21 AM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Hey, they used animations to give people a pseudo 3rd-person view of the lunar module landing, just like the Apollo 11! This is apparently A Thing.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:30 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:30 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Space.com has a bit more detail about the science payloads of the rover and lander, which includes:
Spectro-polarimetry of Habitable Planet Earth (SHAPE) investigation that will assist with exoplanet searches. The experiment will "gather data on the polarization of light reflected by Earth so that researchers can look for other planets with similar signatures
I assume the two tools below will be searching for evidence of water, among other things:
- Alpha Particle X-ray Spectrometer (APXS) to look for elements in the lunar soil and rocks;
- Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscope (LIBS) to examine the chemical and elemental composition of the lunar surface.
Also noteworthy that India signed the U.S.- led Artemis Accords when Modi visited Biden in D.C. this summer, committing to basic principles of peaceful exploration, interoperability of systems, emergency assistance, preserving lunar heritage sites, managing orbital debris and more. China and Russia haven't signed, which isn't a surprise given suspicions among politicians in the U.S. and those countries.
posted by mediareport at 8:37 AM on August 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
Spectro-polarimetry of Habitable Planet Earth (SHAPE) investigation that will assist with exoplanet searches. The experiment will "gather data on the polarization of light reflected by Earth so that researchers can look for other planets with similar signatures
I assume the two tools below will be searching for evidence of water, among other things:
- Alpha Particle X-ray Spectrometer (APXS) to look for elements in the lunar soil and rocks;
- Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscope (LIBS) to examine the chemical and elemental composition of the lunar surface.
Also noteworthy that India signed the U.S.- led Artemis Accords when Modi visited Biden in D.C. this summer, committing to basic principles of peaceful exploration, interoperability of systems, emergency assistance, preserving lunar heritage sites, managing orbital debris and more. China and Russia haven't signed, which isn't a surprise given suspicions among politicians in the U.S. and those countries.
posted by mediareport at 8:37 AM on August 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
My mixed feelings go like this:
1: Why are so many people and governments focused on space exploration when we really, really need to save ourselves on this planet? It's like an insane level of procrastination
2: Those scientists and engineers must be so proud and it is very well deserved
3: The tension after the Russian failure must have been pretty intense
4: and yeah, fuck Modi
5: On the other hand, go India!
posted by mumimor at 8:49 AM on August 23, 2023 [7 favorites]
1: Why are so many people and governments focused on space exploration when we really, really need to save ourselves on this planet? It's like an insane level of procrastination
2: Those scientists and engineers must be so proud and it is very well deserved
3: The tension after the Russian failure must have been pretty intense
4: and yeah, fuck Modi
5: On the other hand, go India!
posted by mumimor at 8:49 AM on August 23, 2023 [7 favorites]
Space exploration is embedded in history. Many of the first steps taken by the Soviet Union, and Richard Nixon's signature is on six plaques on the lunar surface.
posted by Kattullus at 9:03 AM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 9:03 AM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
I tuned in to the livestream and tears ran down my face. God it's wonderful to get to virtually be with a bunch of nerds in Bangalore who are so utterly happy that they've been able to do an amazing thing.
While watching and waiting, I reread Iona Datt Sharma's lovely short scifi story "Heard, Half-Heard, in the Stillness" on India's space program. (Audio version also available.) (Previously on MeFi.) Aspiring astronaut Ekta celebrates Diwali while hoping her name will be called for a mission.
posted by brainwane at 9:08 AM on August 23, 2023 [13 favorites]
While watching and waiting, I reread Iona Datt Sharma's lovely short scifi story "Heard, Half-Heard, in the Stillness" on India's space program. (Audio version also available.) (Previously on MeFi.) Aspiring astronaut Ekta celebrates Diwali while hoping her name will be called for a mission.
People often pointed it out to Ekta, as if she were unaware of the Mars Orbiter’s picture on the two-thousand-rupee banknote, but she’d learned not to be irritated—she understood people’s urge to touch the beyond, to be a part of something they would otherwise never see."The story doesn't much care for Modi either, btw.
posted by brainwane at 9:08 AM on August 23, 2023 [13 favorites]
1: Why are so many people and governments focused on space exploration when we really, really need to save ourselves on this planet? It's like an insane level of procrastination
I fervently wish all the human wonder and excitement and effort that's been sucked up by space exploration in the last 60 years could've been funneled into bioscience to improve human health, or renewable energy to save the world.
Displacing space as the single science thing that most captures the public imagination seems intractable, though. I mean, all people have to do to get excited about space is look up at night.
posted by gurple at 9:11 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I fervently wish all the human wonder and excitement and effort that's been sucked up by space exploration in the last 60 years could've been funneled into bioscience to improve human health, or renewable energy to save the world.
Displacing space as the single science thing that most captures the public imagination seems intractable, though. I mean, all people have to do to get excited about space is look up at night.
posted by gurple at 9:11 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
> 1: Why are so many people and governments focused on space exploration when we really, really need to save ourselves on this planet? It's like an insane level of procrastination
Today, space exploration is relatively easy, yet impressive.
"Save the planet" is a large project, and difficult. It could require reshaping national and international norms and institutions to a huge degree, something that is going to be beyond "spend a few billion dollars".
What you could do by spending a few billion dollars is stuff like electrical infrastructure, building a nuclear power plant or a battery plant, backing basic research into chemistry and materials science, backing applied battery and hydrogen research, doing initial research on building MW solar satellites, doing research on sulfur planet cooling, etc. (with the note that a combination of the above "hitting it out of the park" could solve the current carbon crisis for ~100 years, assuming that is what you are referring to).
None of them are going to produce a relatively easy national "win" like a moon landing or moon base would. And most of it is "new research" (except the infrastructure/nuclear/etc stuff) with unknown ROI, and none of gets close to solving our current carbon crisis alone.
Or was that rhetorical?
posted by NotAYakk at 9:15 AM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
Today, space exploration is relatively easy, yet impressive.
"Save the planet" is a large project, and difficult. It could require reshaping national and international norms and institutions to a huge degree, something that is going to be beyond "spend a few billion dollars".
What you could do by spending a few billion dollars is stuff like electrical infrastructure, building a nuclear power plant or a battery plant, backing basic research into chemistry and materials science, backing applied battery and hydrogen research, doing initial research on building MW solar satellites, doing research on sulfur planet cooling, etc. (with the note that a combination of the above "hitting it out of the park" could solve the current carbon crisis for ~100 years, assuming that is what you are referring to).
None of them are going to produce a relatively easy national "win" like a moon landing or moon base would. And most of it is "new research" (except the infrastructure/nuclear/etc stuff) with unknown ROI, and none of gets close to solving our current carbon crisis alone.
Or was that rhetorical?
posted by NotAYakk at 9:15 AM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
Congrats to India for the quick pivot toward a science victory after the bloodthirsty nuclear eschatology they were gunning for under Ghandi in the 20th century! Not sure if they'll be able to stop the Americans from stealing a cultural victory, but they'll bring it down to the wire.
posted by Mayor West at 9:15 AM on August 23, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 9:15 AM on August 23, 2023 [8 favorites]
Fun fact: The total cost of this mission is the same as one of Jeff Bezos' support ships for his superyacht.
posted by credulous at 9:16 AM on August 23, 2023 [27 favorites]
posted by credulous at 9:16 AM on August 23, 2023 [27 favorites]
Oh please pretty please let's not derail this thread into another "Space travel is bad, we should take that money and {INSERT PROJECT HERE}}"
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 9:31 AM on August 23, 2023 [38 favorites]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 9:31 AM on August 23, 2023 [38 favorites]
The Fediverse posts on the #Chandrayaan3 hashtag have been so lovely to watch. Congratulations in many languages. Relevant Indian art from circa 1700: a Rajput miniature painting of the moon-god Chandra in his antelope-drawn chariot. "Actual Indian moon lander ($75M) cost less than half the movie 'Interstellar' ($165M)." And I saw posts celebrating the women scientists we could see in the control room. Speaking of which, you might remember a 2014 photo from the celebration of the success of Mangalyaan:
posted by brainwane at 9:32 AM on August 23, 2023 [23 favorites]
as Indian scientists successfully put a satellite into orbit around Mars, a photograph that went viral showed women dressed in gorgeous saris with flowers in their hair celebrating at the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) in the southern city of Bangalore.It was breathtaking. They looked like they could be my aunts. And that was one of the really moving things about seeing that control room livestream. I grew up on Star Trek and I have cried at Apollo 13 and here, now, I'm seeing people who may well be distant cousins, aunts, uncles of mine with those looks on their faces, the held breath, the earned joy.
posted by brainwane at 9:32 AM on August 23, 2023 [23 favorites]
The relatively low cost, $77 million, was shocking to me too.
posted by mediareport at 9:33 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 9:33 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I was able to watch the live feed, really exciting in a nerdist way. The cool part was they updated the three actually interesting telemetry numbers (horizontal speed, vertical speed, height) in real time (1.5 second delay due to distance and 'c'). The frustrating part was they kept cutting to the nice 3d sim, watchers and politicians.
It was kinda sweet once I grokked that the master control room (very nasa like) was mostly filled by family!
This is really huge, space should be for all humanity.
And to answer "question 1" without derail: we need to move all toxic manufacturing off planet, ASAP.
posted by sammyo at 9:35 AM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
It was kinda sweet once I grokked that the master control room (very nasa like) was mostly filled by family!
This is really huge, space should be for all humanity.
And to answer "question 1" without derail: we need to move all toxic manufacturing off planet, ASAP.
posted by sammyo at 9:35 AM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
I fervently wish all the human wonder and excitement and effort that's been sucked up by space exploration in the last 60 years could've been funneled into bioscience to improve human health, or renewable energy to save the world.
And I fervently wish you would understand that the reason those things aren't happening is because the only people in our society who really hire trained scientists in large numbers are techbros, big pharma, finance, and the war industry, not because they think space is cooler than helping humanity.
posted by Zalzidrax at 9:36 AM on August 23, 2023 [8 favorites]
And I fervently wish you would understand that the reason those things aren't happening is because the only people in our society who really hire trained scientists in large numbers are techbros, big pharma, finance, and the war industry, not because they think space is cooler than helping humanity.
posted by Zalzidrax at 9:36 AM on August 23, 2023 [8 favorites]
Please let's keep this on Chandrayaan-3, what a fantastic achievement!!!
posted by sammyo at 9:40 AM on August 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 9:40 AM on August 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
this is a good day for India and a good day for people
it's okay to acknowledge that, full stop
posted by elkevelvet at 9:48 AM on August 23, 2023 [9 favorites]
it's okay to acknowledge that, full stop
posted by elkevelvet at 9:48 AM on August 23, 2023 [9 favorites]
"Actual Indian moon lander ($75M) cost less than half the movie 'Interstellar' ($165M)."
An LVM3 costs $63M, which doesn't leave much for everything else. Though maybe ISRO charges themselves mates rates.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 10:06 AM on August 23, 2023
An LVM3 costs $63M, which doesn't leave much for everything else. Though maybe ISRO charges themselves mates rates.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 10:06 AM on August 23, 2023
Seeing a group in the control room that was more diverse than the Apollo 11 control room was nice.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:34 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:34 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
The fight scenes in the Kollywood movie they make about this are gonna be EPIC!
posted by Runes at 11:02 AM on August 23, 2023
posted by Runes at 11:02 AM on August 23, 2023
Kudos to ISRO for this triumph!
It's also great news for humanity, as we have a shot at learning more about the moon's south pole.
posted by doctornemo at 12:39 PM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's also great news for humanity, as we have a shot at learning more about the moon's south pole.
posted by doctornemo at 12:39 PM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
brainwane, I totally remember that photo and thought of that, and those wonderful women, when I saw this story in the news this morning. When I saw the story, I longed to just send some congratulations to those marvelous and jubilant celebrants, but I'm not on social media so didn't have a place to put it. But I shall put it here, and just send it out into the universe:
CONGRATULATIONS! WHAT A TREMENDOUS ACHIEVEMENT! I AM SO HAPPY FOR ISRO, AND INDIA, AND EARTH, TODAY!
posted by kristi at 1:20 PM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
CONGRATULATIONS! WHAT A TREMENDOUS ACHIEVEMENT! I AM SO HAPPY FOR ISRO, AND INDIA, AND EARTH, TODAY!
posted by kristi at 1:20 PM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oh please pretty please let's not derail this thread into another "Space travel is bad, we should take that money and {INSERT PROJECT HERE}}"
Thank you, Pluto. MeFi's progressive opposition to space is a long-running theme.
posted by doctornemo at 1:31 PM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Thank you, Pluto. MeFi's progressive opposition to space is a long-running theme.
posted by doctornemo at 1:31 PM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
I am curious about India's role in the forthcoming Lunar Gateway project.
posted by doctornemo at 1:31 PM on August 23, 2023
posted by doctornemo at 1:31 PM on August 23, 2023
They went to the South Pole in the middle of winter????
posted by MtDewd at 2:23 PM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by MtDewd at 2:23 PM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
4th guys, welcome to the cool club India!
If we could get a Sikh in a golden spacesuit on an Indian moonbase I think the timeline might shift back to a more positive Karmic spin.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:23 PM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
If we could get a Sikh in a golden spacesuit on an Indian moonbase I think the timeline might shift back to a more positive Karmic spin.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:23 PM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
MeFi's progressive opposition to space
Some MeFites' opposition, you mean. The site itself has a long history of thoughtful, useful posts and discussions about space.
posted by mediareport at 4:59 PM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Some MeFites' opposition, you mean. The site itself has a long history of thoughtful, useful posts and discussions about space.
posted by mediareport at 4:59 PM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Why are so many people and governments focused on space exploration when we really, really need to save ourselves on this planet?
Here's a partial list of some of the things we now have and use to benefit people on Earth which were initially developed to support space missions:
* CAT Scans
* Land mine removal tools
* Foil blankets
* Water purification systems
* Insulation
* Jaws-of-life
* advanced prosthetic limbs
Which of those would you have preferred we not have?
Please let's keep this on Chandrayaan-3, what a fantastic achievement!!!
Agreed. There's a song covered by the "Playing for Change" group, Chanda Mama, which I was told was a Hindi children's song, in the voice of a small child singing to the moon. Playing it myself now. (It's catchy as hell.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:12 PM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Here's a partial list of some of the things we now have and use to benefit people on Earth which were initially developed to support space missions:
* CAT Scans
* Land mine removal tools
* Foil blankets
* Water purification systems
* Insulation
* Jaws-of-life
* advanced prosthetic limbs
Which of those would you have preferred we not have?
Please let's keep this on Chandrayaan-3, what a fantastic achievement!!!
Agreed. There's a song covered by the "Playing for Change" group, Chanda Mama, which I was told was a Hindi children's song, in the voice of a small child singing to the moon. Playing it myself now. (It's catchy as hell.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:12 PM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Wait a moment. The world's most populous country can precision land a technological miracle on an object millions of miles away while the vast majority of Indians have limited life options: food deserts, medical care, disparity, toilet availability disparity, economic and social disparity, [insert your disparity here] disparity...
Did not America do this already yet still retain ownership of 'disparity'. At least the country is good at something...
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 8:33 PM on August 23, 2023
Did not America do this already yet still retain ownership of 'disparity'. At least the country is good at something...
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 8:33 PM on August 23, 2023
Global clean energy expenditure in 2022 was about 1 trillion US dollars, of which about 45 billion was in research and development.
In the same year, total global expenditures on space (not just exploration, but also military, etc) was about 100 billion US dollars.
In the US, the military budget was 750 billion US dollars.
Global research and development in pharmaceuticals was about 240 billion US dollars.
Global expenditures in space exploration do not amount to much of a "diversion" of funding that otherwise might go elsewhere, assuming that it would, and assuming that a significant portion of space funding doesn't itself contribute directly or indirectly to areas such as climate research and renewable energy development, which in fact it does.
If there's a progressive strain of thought opposed to funding of space research on MetaFilter or elsewhere, it represents the same kind of fiscal innumeracy as the widespread misconception in the US and elsewhere that (non-military) "foreign aid" accounts for a significant portion of government expenditures.
“Wait a moment. The world's most populous country can precision land a technological miracle on an object millions of miles away while the vast majority of Indians have limited life options: food deserts, medical care, disparity, toilet availability disparity, economic and social disparity, [insert your disparity here] disparity...”
I mean, look, complaining about 75 million (US$) spent by India on a Moon lander in the context of the world's most populous country at 1.4 billion people where significantly alleviating those problems would involve trillions is inane. Its 2022 military budget was 81 billion (US$). That lander was about 0.1% of that amount.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:34 PM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
In the same year, total global expenditures on space (not just exploration, but also military, etc) was about 100 billion US dollars.
In the US, the military budget was 750 billion US dollars.
Global research and development in pharmaceuticals was about 240 billion US dollars.
Global expenditures in space exploration do not amount to much of a "diversion" of funding that otherwise might go elsewhere, assuming that it would, and assuming that a significant portion of space funding doesn't itself contribute directly or indirectly to areas such as climate research and renewable energy development, which in fact it does.
If there's a progressive strain of thought opposed to funding of space research on MetaFilter or elsewhere, it represents the same kind of fiscal innumeracy as the widespread misconception in the US and elsewhere that (non-military) "foreign aid" accounts for a significant portion of government expenditures.
“Wait a moment. The world's most populous country can precision land a technological miracle on an object millions of miles away while the vast majority of Indians have limited life options: food deserts, medical care, disparity, toilet availability disparity, economic and social disparity, [insert your disparity here] disparity...”
I mean, look, complaining about 75 million (US$) spent by India on a Moon lander in the context of the world's most populous country at 1.4 billion people where significantly alleviating those problems would involve trillions is inane. Its 2022 military budget was 81 billion (US$). That lander was about 0.1% of that amount.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:34 PM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
My grandfather was one of the first people to join the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) in independent India. He was also one of the first people to be issued a passport under the then just-born Republic of India to study optics in Australia under the Colombo Plan.
His daughter, my mom, spent 30+ years in Indian Council of Agricultural Research (ICAR) supporting the Green Revolution at first, but later the Yellow (oilseeds) Revolution and lately, research into climate-resistant crops. A lot of this research comes from satellite maps, which India generates on its own.
So yes. Science in general, but satellite tech in particular, helps alleviate food sufficiency, especially in times of climate change.
The landing module on Chandrayaan 3 is named for Vikram
Sarabhai, an early pioneer scientist who spearheaded both space and nuclear research. It is what it is; nuclear engineering was a magnet for smart kids back then. ISRO does have defence links, they do second engineers into missile research and such occasionally.
But that's besides the point. For now, I just want to focus on this: on seeing that Vikram lander disengage itself from the rocket, slowly straighten its landers from a horizontal to vertical position, pause for a few moments to check if there are rocks, and then proceed to follow a projected parabola to land in a region that's so alien to our world that it has only 14 days to do what it becomes inoperable because temperatures will fall below -200C.
And then, when it did, to see (woman)-scientists like my mom but from a different generation jumping in joy at successfully executing something they failed at in 2019, and something that the Russians failed at only a few days earlier.
And then to see my daughter witness all of that in awe.
There are bearded, vainglorious, fascist-adjacent ideologues who would like to steal the limelight from the scientists. That too is a distraction. The real magic is the journey itself, and to show to ourselves it can be done by, however you want to define it, my people.
posted by the cydonian at 3:21 AM on August 24, 2023 [27 favorites]
His daughter, my mom, spent 30+ years in Indian Council of Agricultural Research (ICAR) supporting the Green Revolution at first, but later the Yellow (oilseeds) Revolution and lately, research into climate-resistant crops. A lot of this research comes from satellite maps, which India generates on its own.
So yes. Science in general, but satellite tech in particular, helps alleviate food sufficiency, especially in times of climate change.
The landing module on Chandrayaan 3 is named for Vikram
Sarabhai, an early pioneer scientist who spearheaded both space and nuclear research. It is what it is; nuclear engineering was a magnet for smart kids back then. ISRO does have defence links, they do second engineers into missile research and such occasionally.
But that's besides the point. For now, I just want to focus on this: on seeing that Vikram lander disengage itself from the rocket, slowly straighten its landers from a horizontal to vertical position, pause for a few moments to check if there are rocks, and then proceed to follow a projected parabola to land in a region that's so alien to our world that it has only 14 days to do what it becomes inoperable because temperatures will fall below -200C.
And then, when it did, to see (woman)-scientists like my mom but from a different generation jumping in joy at successfully executing something they failed at in 2019, and something that the Russians failed at only a few days earlier.
And then to see my daughter witness all of that in awe.
There are bearded, vainglorious, fascist-adjacent ideologues who would like to steal the limelight from the scientists. That too is a distraction. The real magic is the journey itself, and to show to ourselves it can be done by, however you want to define it, my people.
posted by the cydonian at 3:21 AM on August 24, 2023 [27 favorites]
it has only 14 days [before it] becomes inoperable because temperatures will fall below -200C.
I hadn't really thought about that reason why it's only expected to last 1 lunar day (~14 earth days). Damn that's gonna make working at the south pole extremely slow and difficult.
posted by mediareport at 6:40 AM on August 24, 2023
I hadn't really thought about that reason why it's only expected to last 1 lunar day (~14 earth days). Damn that's gonna make working at the south pole extremely slow and difficult.
posted by mediareport at 6:40 AM on August 24, 2023
If there's a progressive strain of thought opposed to funding of space research on MetaFilter or elsewhere, it represents the same kind of fiscal innumeracy as the widespread misconception in the US and elsewhere that (non-military) "foreign aid" accounts for a significant portion of government expenditures.
There is, and I agree.
I think there's a lot to that opposition, but the financial argument is one.
To be fair, the arguments I've heard and read don't focus on space as a proportion of federal outlays so much as in absolute terms. $100 billion! Think what we could do with that...
posted by doctornemo at 6:56 AM on August 24, 2023
There is, and I agree.
I think there's a lot to that opposition, but the financial argument is one.
To be fair, the arguments I've heard and read don't focus on space as a proportion of federal outlays so much as in absolute terms. $100 billion! Think what we could do with that...
posted by doctornemo at 6:56 AM on August 24, 2023
Today's Google Doodle celebrates the landing. Yay!
posted by kristi at 6:59 AM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by kristi at 6:59 AM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Perhaps some people who have commented in this thread might like to consider what people from India think of Westerners asking whether India's space programs are a good idea. To such folks, I re-recommend that you read Iona Datt Sharma's short story "Heard, Half-Heard, in the Stillness" which I linked earlier. The story includes a person from the US who says to an Indian,
posted by brainwane at 7:41 AM on August 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
“Ram told me all about you,” Leah burbled on, unperturbed by Ekta’s uncertainty. “The whole family must be so proud. I guess this is all for the best though. You know, the cancellation and stuff.”Ekta's response is memorable.
“Is it?” Ekta said, startled, looking out over the edge of the raised verandah to the maidaan below. “How is that?”
“It’s just, it must cost a lot, the space stuff,” Leah said. “Right?”
“It doesn’t cost that much,” Ekta said absently. In a televised speech, Modi had once pointed out that if you measured it in rupees-per-mile, the Mangalyaan mission had cost less than a rickshaw journey in Allahabad. Comparing our Ekta to a rickshaw-walla, Dadi had said indignantly before throwing dhokla at the computer screen. But despite its source, Ekta had liked the comparison. “As a percentage of the overall government budget it’s insignificant.”
...
“But India’s so poor,” Leah said earnestly. “And it’s only a young country when you think about it. Maybe it’s better if you people stay home for now, huh? Clean up your own backyard a mite before you head out into the neighbourhood. It’s for the best.”
posted by brainwane at 7:41 AM on August 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
I keep coming back to the $27M mission cost and my mind keeps exploding. This achievement is all the more amazing that it was done for maybe five cents per capita.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:56 AM on August 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:56 AM on August 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
All the reports I'm seeing put the cost at ~$75 million, seanmpuckett, from an ISRO estimate in 2020, so it's likely the real cost after COVID delays would up significantly higher. Also interesting, according to this CNBC article, NASA is now budgeting the same amount for its contracts with the private companies building moon landers for the agency:
Perhaps the most remarkable aspect of India’s moon landing is the shoestring budget — by government standards — with which the country achieved the mission. In 2020, the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) estimated the Chandrayaan-3 mission would cost about $75 million. The launch was delayed two years, which likely increased the overall mission’s cost. ISRO has not responded to CNBC’s request for an updated cost figure.
But that rivals the lowest-cost lunar lander missions in development in the U.S. NASA in recent years turned to having companies compete for fixed-price contracts to build moon landers, under a program it calls Commercial Lunar Payload Services. The CLPS program has a maximum budget of $2.6 billion over 10 years, with 14 companies vying for mission contracts typically worth upwards of $70 million each.
That said, there are much more expensive NASA contracts, involving multiple trips and eventually astronauts, like the $3.4 billion moon lander contract awarded to Blue Origin in May (Amazon will match that and expects the project to cost $7 billion in all), and the $2.9 billion in 2021 and another billion last November awarded to SpaceX.
I guess humans in space is a more expensive proposition by orders of magnitude.
posted by mediareport at 7:38 PM on August 24, 2023
Perhaps the most remarkable aspect of India’s moon landing is the shoestring budget — by government standards — with which the country achieved the mission. In 2020, the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) estimated the Chandrayaan-3 mission would cost about $75 million. The launch was delayed two years, which likely increased the overall mission’s cost. ISRO has not responded to CNBC’s request for an updated cost figure.
But that rivals the lowest-cost lunar lander missions in development in the U.S. NASA in recent years turned to having companies compete for fixed-price contracts to build moon landers, under a program it calls Commercial Lunar Payload Services. The CLPS program has a maximum budget of $2.6 billion over 10 years, with 14 companies vying for mission contracts typically worth upwards of $70 million each.
That said, there are much more expensive NASA contracts, involving multiple trips and eventually astronauts, like the $3.4 billion moon lander contract awarded to Blue Origin in May (Amazon will match that and expects the project to cost $7 billion in all), and the $2.9 billion in 2021 and another billion last November awarded to SpaceX.
I guess humans in space is a more expensive proposition by orders of magnitude.
posted by mediareport at 7:38 PM on August 24, 2023
Japan is set to launch its own lunar lander tonight at 8:26pm EST. Smart Lander for Investigating Moon (SLIM) is sharing the rocket ride with a low earth orbit x-ray satellite, X-Ray Imaging and Spectroscopy Mission (XRISM).
JAXA livestream starts at 7:55pm EST. Japan's space program has had a number of recent stumbles [Bloomberg, archive] so this launch is being watched particularly closely to see what lessons have been learned:
In February, the agency postponed the inaugural launch of the H3, JAXA’s successor to the H2-A, after a system malfunction between its main engine and side booster kept the rocket grounded. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. spent almost a decade working on the H3, a single-use rocket meant to provide a cheaper, more reliable alternative to competitors such as SpaceX’s reusable Falcon 9.
A second attempt in early March ended far more dramatically after the rocket’s second-stage engine failed to ignite. Operators sent a self-destruct code once it was up in the air, sending the craft and the satellite it carried plummeting into the Philippine Sea.
And then in July, the engine of an Epsilon S (the rocket’s seventh iteration) exploded during a ground test, causing flames and a pillar of smoke to consume a facility in northern Japan’s Akita Prefecture. While no injuries were reported, the incident was a setback not only for the Epsilon series but for the H3 as well, as both rockets use the same new solid rocket booster.
posted by mediareport at 1:18 PM on August 27, 2023
JAXA livestream starts at 7:55pm EST. Japan's space program has had a number of recent stumbles [Bloomberg, archive] so this launch is being watched particularly closely to see what lessons have been learned:
In February, the agency postponed the inaugural launch of the H3, JAXA’s successor to the H2-A, after a system malfunction between its main engine and side booster kept the rocket grounded. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. spent almost a decade working on the H3, a single-use rocket meant to provide a cheaper, more reliable alternative to competitors such as SpaceX’s reusable Falcon 9.
A second attempt in early March ended far more dramatically after the rocket’s second-stage engine failed to ignite. Operators sent a self-destruct code once it was up in the air, sending the craft and the satellite it carried plummeting into the Philippine Sea.
And then in July, the engine of an Epsilon S (the rocket’s seventh iteration) exploded during a ground test, causing flames and a pillar of smoke to consume a facility in northern Japan’s Akita Prefecture. While no injuries were reported, the incident was a setback not only for the Epsilon series but for the H3 as well, as both rockets use the same new solid rocket booster.
posted by mediareport at 1:18 PM on August 27, 2023
Makes me want to launch the Fully Autonomous Terrain Assessment Systems Spacecraft
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 1:45 PM on August 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 1:45 PM on August 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
The JAXA launch was cancelled due to "inclement weather." A bit odd, as you can hear the presenter talk about the sunny and calm weather at 18:46 in the livestream, but then three minutes later at 21:50 he announces the cancellation due to weather and says Mitsubishi Heavy Industries will announce more details later.
Strange moment.
posted by mediareport at 6:55 PM on August 27, 2023
Strange moment.
posted by mediareport at 6:55 PM on August 27, 2023
Ah, Reuters says it was high winds in the upper atmosphere that caused JAXA to cancel, with next attempt no sooner than Thursday:
Although the H-IIA rocket, the Japanese flagship launch vehicle, has a 98% launch success rate, unsuitable wind conditions in the upper atmosphere forced a suspension less than 30 minutes before the planned liftoff.
"High-altitude winds hit our constraint for a launch... which had been set to ensure no impact from falling debris outside of pre-warned areas," said MHI's launch unit chief Tatsuru Tokunaga. The new launch date has not been decided, but will be no sooner than Thursday because of necessary processes such as re-fuelling, he added.
posted by mediareport at 9:27 PM on August 27, 2023
Although the H-IIA rocket, the Japanese flagship launch vehicle, has a 98% launch success rate, unsuitable wind conditions in the upper atmosphere forced a suspension less than 30 minutes before the planned liftoff.
"High-altitude winds hit our constraint for a launch... which had been set to ensure no impact from falling debris outside of pre-warned areas," said MHI's launch unit chief Tatsuru Tokunaga. The new launch date has not been decided, but will be no sooner than Thursday because of necessary processes such as re-fuelling, he added.
posted by mediareport at 9:27 PM on August 27, 2023
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Additionally the split screen with Modi brought to mind, "moon landers for some, tiny Indian flags for others."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:55 AM on August 23, 2023 [16 favorites]