Mehdi Hasan reports:"'Don't Say You Weren't Warned'"

April 20, 2024 2:22 AM

'Don't Say You Weren't Warned': What Trump's First 100 Horrific Days Would Look Like. (SLYT)
posted by Marky (27 comments total)

Who is this for? How can any of this still be a debate?

I'm so goddamn tired.
posted by spoobnooble 3D: the spoobening at 3:19 AM on April 20 [10 favorites]

Once again, in haiku form:

Who is this post for?
How can this be a debate?
I'm so goddamn tired.
posted by spoobnooble 3D: the spoobening at 3:27 AM on April 20 [18 favorites]

Who is this for?

Anyone who keeps debating whether to vote at all because reasons?
posted by Thorzdad at 3:45 AM on April 20 [12 favorites]

I was just chatting with some highly anti-fascist friends last night. All they wanted to do is talk about how terrible the US Democrats and CDN Liberals are. "Sure, Trump and Pollivere are bad, BUT...".

Any suggestion that their social media feed is seeded by pro-fascist troll farms is dismissed outright. They are just as locked into their pleasure-inducing hate feedback loops as Trump supporters. Mentioning that some their most fervent ideological beliefs - aside from the party allegiance itself - align 100% with Trumpists only makes them double down and shut me out.

I am stunned by how well Putin-style social manipulation has worked on them, even though we all knew it was coming and should have been fortified against it.

I have to tread carefully with them now.
posted by CynicalKnight at 4:20 AM on April 20 [5 favorites]

Presumably it's for the DNC, who evidently still need some convincing to run a candidate that can win.

I'm honestly stunned at how little in this video is significantly worse than what we have now. Oh no, an Islamaphobic conspiracy theorist as the press secretary? Good thing we have a candidate who believes that UNRWA is Hamas to prevent that.

Trump is bad. Of course Trump is bad. If your only solution to Trump is to Vote then you aren't taking him or what he represents seriously.
posted by jy4m at 4:31 AM on April 20 [7 favorites]

> Presumably it's for the DNC, who evidently still need some convincing to run a candidate that can win. I'm honestly stunned at how little in this video is significantly worse than what we have now

oh jesus not this fucking noise again

please don't derail a painful and exhausting anti-trump post by turning it into anti-Biden and anti-DNC crap. If you're that desperate to bash democrats, make your own thread.
posted by MiraK at 4:47 AM on April 20 [34 favorites]

LOL, it wasn't jy4m who came in here hot bitching about the left being dupes and patsies of Putin.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 4:52 AM on April 20 [7 favorites]

I have spent a lot more time talking about how I don't like Firefly than I do about how I don't like drinking acetone.

That's because no one in my social circles thinks drinking acetone is really great and I'd enjoy it if I gave it a try.

Why assume "Putin-style social manipulation" is involved instead of people being tired of being told not to criticize allies of convenience who are currently engaged in war crimes.

Leftists didn't need propaganda to hate Biden. Lots of them despised him back when he was Obama's VP. The man was on the wrong side of racial justice, student loan debt, abortion, and more long before he was in the executive branch. Putin or whatever other boogeyman gets blamed for leftists disabreeing with liberals is unnecessary.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 4:54 AM on April 20 [13 favorites]

Putin or whatever other boogeyman gets blamed for leftists disabreeing with liberals is unnecessary.

You hate Biden? Fine. Will you or won’t you vote for him in November? It really is that simple now. That’s the choice. Sorry about the lack of a magical unicorn.

What’s really unnecessary is constantly trotting-out the yes-but-biden-isn’t-ideal divisiveness whenever the subject of the election-at-hand comes up at this late date. There are no viable alternatives. Sorry. Maybe start grooming someone more to your liking to vie for the office in ‘28 instead of denigrating the only realistic alternative to Trump we have today.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:10 AM on April 20 [38 favorites]

I support holding Biden's & the Dem's feet to the fire re Israel's actions - amongst many other things. But when it comes to voting in a presidential election - in a swing state - under the current system is a binary choice. Not Pro or anti genocide. Not pro or anti X, Y or Z. The result is: elect Biden or elect Trump.

again:

if you are an eligible voter in a swing state, irrespective of your position on Gaza or the other horrors that this administration supports, not voting for Biden in the presidential election HAS NO SUBSTANTIVE EFFECT other than to increase the likelihood of a Trump admin. NONE.

posted by lalochezia at 5:39 AM on April 20 [13 favorites]

Biden is more than "less than ideal". God forgive me, I will vote for him, but I am not going to pretend that vote isn't for a strikebreaking, racist, participant in genocide.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 5:47 AM on April 20 [9 favorites]

Who is this for?

Seems like twitter-obsessed "resisters"?
posted by Captaintripps at 5:48 AM on April 20

Voting is one of the few powers we actually do have in the face of a fascist takeover, and I would argue that, at least after primaries are over, we might consider promoting at least what Biden does well because otherwise we contribute to bothsideist malaise that the large media outlets promote. I don't want my neighbors thinking it doesn't matter how they vote come November.
posted by Peach at 5:52 AM on April 20 [7 favorites]

Trump is going to lose the popular vote again. We all know this. He’s a loser. In every sense of the word. Always has been, always will be.

He definitely can become president again because of the EC. If that happens again, boy, I don’t know. 3 times in 24 years? I really believe a substantial portion of the population are gonna be like “JFC fuck this” and either start a revolution or completely check out.

My money’s on the latter.
posted by rhymedirective at 5:58 AM on April 20 [3 favorites]

i don't think he will wait 99 days to come after trans people
posted by graywyvern at 6:05 AM on April 20 [5 favorites]

A quick review of what the state-by-state trends are right now, since we don't really hold a national election for president, we hold fifty state elections for the electoral college:

States are falling into roughly five buckets.

Deep blue states. Examples: New York, California, Massachusetts, Maryland. Biden is down roughly ten points in these states when you compare current polling with the 2020 final results.

Light blue states. Examples: Colorado, Minnesota, Virginia. Biden is down roughly five to seven points in these states. They're still blue, but maybe tighter than is really comfortable.

Northern swing states. Examples: Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania. These are running 50-50 Biden to Trump, dead even. Really this is no change from either 2020 or 2016, they were close in previous presidential races, and they're close again now.

Sunbelt swing states. Examples: Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina. Trump is leading these states by five points overall, these states were 50-50 or close in 2020.

Mid-to-Deep red states. Trump leads these, of course, a few smaller rural states by overwhelming margins, but these are mostly unchanged from the 2020 results, not budging one way or the other.

Yes, this is a longer, more detailed version of "your vote matters if you're in a swing state". Is this fair? Generally no. But it's the reality on the ground right now.

As an aside, I'll note that in other statewide elections in 2024, weakness in Biden support doesn't appear to be affecting candidates for Senate. Gallego in Arizona is up a couple of points, Sherrod Brown is doing okay in Ohio, Jon Tester is keeping pace as a Democrat in Montana, which has been deep-red in recent presidential races. Stein is holding his own as a Democrat in the race for North Carolina governor.
posted by gimonca at 6:14 AM on April 20 [4 favorites]

Biden is more than "less than ideal"

True, absolutely. Now multiply by the large number of your choice and you begin to approach how "less than ideal" Trump is and will be. On every single point. Would that there were an alternative, but this cycle that's the choice. Rock or pit of molten lava.
posted by From Bklyn at 6:18 AM on April 20 [6 favorites]

Despite voting for them, I'm currently disappointed with Canada's Liberal party. Trudeau seems out of gas. I don't need Russian trollfarms to point this out. But at least we have more choices than just the Libs or the Conservatives, and with minority governments, we can press reset more often. I don't yet think that a PP majority is a given.

But wow, the rigidly bipolar US system, where you have to choose between a center-right party or a rabidly right party, and the quaint electoral college, and hanging chads and whatnot. It seems past its best-before date.

Anyway, you have to use what you have. Voting for the least-worst option is the rational course. On the other hand, letting the awfulest person get in could cause things to blow up sooner... maybe leading to a better system? Kind of risky, and this choice might harm more people in the short term.
posted by Artful Codger at 6:20 AM on April 20 [3 favorites]

But: people do still need to vote for House and Senate. Staying home entirely is very much not a good option. Control of both the House and Senate could go either way, both are 50-50 coin flips right now.

If you live in Maryland (where Biden is way down in the polls, but still should win the state's electoral votes), you'll need to turn out in November to vote for Trone against Hogan.

If you live in swing districts in California or New York, you'll need to turn out to support Democratic candidates in those close districts. If you live next door, consider targeting them with your support. State Democratic party organizations did not do a good job in 2022 in pulling in winnable seats in CA and NY and a couple of other states. (I mean, how do you lose to George Santos?) It only takes a couple of districts to swing to kick Republicans out of the House leadership.

And, a reminder that control of the Senate may once again depend on the winner of the Presidential race, since the Vice-President holds the tiebreaking vote in a 50-50 Senate. You should factor this into your Presidential voting choices as well.

It's possible that awful results could come from the November elections, but it's also possible that you could see a Democratic trifecta again, where Democrats control the White House, the House and the Senate.
posted by gimonca at 6:28 AM on April 20 [6 favorites]

On the other hand, letting the awfulest person get in could cause things to blow up sooner... maybe leading to a better system?

Has letting the worst possible person cause the most harm to the most people possible caused things to "blow up sooner?" Are there any instances of things blowing up sooner that have led to a better system?

When things blow up, you end up with rubble.
posted by Rudy_Wiser at 6:43 AM on April 20 [6 favorites]

So, I watched the video. I'm typically one of those people who complain about information that's buried in a video that could be so much easier to read--and distribute--as text.

So, I took notes. Here's my short list of the items mentioned. I might have missed something. The video does a decent job of listing several things that *could* happen. A person could probably come up with even more examples or details. I tried to arrange these by topic a bit.

--End birthright citizenship
--Bring back the Muslim travel ban
--Revoke student visas on ideological grounds
--Extreme immigration camps and deportation programs
--Provoke violence at the southern border, against immigrants, possibly against Mexico itself

--Use insurrection act against protesters
--Pardon Jan 6th criminals
--Put Michael Flynn as Defense Secretary, threats to use military domestically, threats to use state national guards in non-compliant states

--Schedule F changes, purge civil service on ideological grounds

--Throw out prosecutors investigating Trump crimes, harass and investigate political opponents instead
--Harass and prosecute media figures
--Empower police abuse with federal support, defund police depts in states and cities that are uncooperative

--Remove Trans medical care from Medicaid
--Anti-abortion updates to existing federal regulations

--End climate-related regulations and programs

--Cooperation with and submission to right-wing leaders from other countries, starting with but not limited to Putin
posted by gimonca at 6:48 AM on April 20 [4 favorites]

Voting is one of the few powers we actually do have in the face of a fascist takeover, and I would argue that, at least after primaries are over, we might consider promoting at least what Biden does well because otherwise we contribute to bothsideist malaise that the large media outlets promote

If voting were the only power we had, the malaise would be justifiable. I genuinely don't think the current US political system will be able to avoid a fall into total fascism by voting for the right people. But our chances of staving it off by other means are a lot better with the relatively feckless, divided Democrats than under the organized and enthusiastic fascists who've attached themselves to Trump.

That said, I feel no obligation to be a booster for Biden. For one thing, it would be a betrayal of the people he is hurting right now. Trump being worse doesn't mean we can stop pressuring Biden to stop supporting genocide. If the Democrats fear losing votes over support for criminal government, the burden is on them to change that behavior. Not on voters to swallow it and smile.

Also, on a personal level, I don't matter. No one is out there thinking "I want to support Joe Boden, but first I need to see what a broke nobody in the reddest corner of a deep red state said on Metafilter. " I'm not on Joe Biden's payroll. If he wants me to say nice things about him, he will just have to admirable things.

Till then, "better than Trump" is all he's getting from me.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:53 AM on April 20 [2 favorites]

Well, if you're Arab or Muslim, Biden has made zero overtures to them or offered any indication that he gives a fuck if they live or die and is continuing to give weapons and money to a foreign government that is killing their friends and families in the Middle East. Trump would do the same, but probably faster.

Recently, Biden restarted deportations of immigrants to Haiti, and adopted right-wing messaging on the "border crisis" and wants to take action relying on the same Muslim ban people protested in the first place. I'm not sure how this is any different than what Trump would do.

And he still hasn't fired the US Postmaster General appointed by Trump.

So for a lot of people, "better than Trump" just isn't true.
posted by toastyk at 6:56 AM on April 20 [3 favorites]

This may actually be the right threat to ask this question.

Let's for the moment assume that most people are going to game it out and pull the lever for the Democrat once again in November, even if he's a racist genocidaire. Just assume for the purpose of my question that the people who don't like Biden are going, in the moment, to suck it up. I think that's a pretty strong possibility, so let it ride for now.

How does this end? My entire adult life, the Democrats' main line of argument is "vote for us, the Republicans are worse". And certainly the Republicans have been worse, and they've gotten worse, my entire adult life. As a result, the democrats have moved right. Not that all Democratic politicians have individually moved right, but in the aggregate, the Democrats have gotten. much shittier about almost every major issue.

And, of course, right now Biden is literally taking point on the support of an obvious, well-documented and extremely unpopular genocide. Right before an election! Daring the base to complain! If we don't go along with the genocide, we get Trump in November. Lotta presidents would take that as a warning to court the base, but Biden has taken that as the opportunity to blackmail the base. "Nice democracy we've got here, shame if your repulsion at sniping children got you Trump."

So anyway, how do we get out of this spiral? Every major Democrat and party activist is literally telling the base to vote affirmatively for genocide. Assume that we all hold our noses and pull the lever, what's next?

The GOP moves right right right, the Democrats follow a few steps behind and next time we have to vote for machine-gunning immigrants at the border because the GOP is promoting death squads within our borders?

What is proposed by party activists to stop this cycle? How are they taking steps to make it happen? How are we going to get out of this? The answer can't be "party activists roust us all to vote for Mr. Murder but won't turn a hand to get us out of the murder-escalation cycle, that's up to local voters". If you're getting out the vote for genocide, you need to have a plan to stop things.

~~
On that. note: look, it is incredibly risky to tell people they have to vote for genocide or really bad things will. happen. Even if you assume that you can hector most people into voting your way, there's going to be a percentage (and that percentage will increase as things worsen) who will at best stay home, whose stomachs won't let them vote for the sniped babies and people run over alive by tanks and the rape and torture and the people who have to carry their children's liquified corpses in sacks and the rotting bodies in the rubble and the millions and millions in arms to do more of it over and over again.

Now, you may say "stop putting it in those terms, that's unfair, it's realpolitik" or whatever we have to say this year, but it's the rotting corpses and the tanks, etc, that are at issue. You've got to say more about them than "too bad, vote Blue or you get Trump" to get people into the voting booth.

How are we breaking this spiral?
posted by Frowner at 6:59 AM on April 20 [14 favorites]

I'm just gonna throw up now.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:04 AM on April 20 [3 favorites]

Like, why are the Democrats not more democratic? Material support for Israel is extremely unpopular nationwide. Genuinely dialing back support would be popular. Putting the arm on Israel to stop this would get the atrocities off the teevee and off voters' minds with months to go before the election. Here is this one issue that is fucking up the whole election, isolating the US within the UN, etc, and we just can't stop. What kind of political malfeasance is this? What is being done within the party to address the "we should do popular things and not do unpopular ones" piece?

This really ought to be a no-brainer, regardless of morality - it's an election year, you cannot provide ongoing material support for a highly visible and widely unpopular genocide, even if you could in theory provide material support for one that Americans didn't know much about and that would not impact the vote.
posted by Frowner at 7:15 AM on April 20 [4 favorites]

And he still hasn't fired the US Postmaster General appointed by Trump.

So for a lot of people, "better than Trump" just isn't true.

Biden Shields Millions of Acres of Alaskan Wilderness From Drilling and Mining.

Biden administration moves to make conservation an equal to industry on US lands.

I have a lot of issues with Biden, but he is demonstrably better than Trump.
posted by ryanshepard at 7:16 AM on April 20 [5 favorites]