I want to go to somewhere where I’m guaranteed to have a good time
May 25, 2024 12:31 PM Subscribe
We interviewed three people whose holiday habits seem precision-engineered to wind up people on Twitter and TikTok. The adult Disney fanatic who’s been on more than 70 Disney-themed holidays. A private landlord who flies first class while leaving his kids (and their nanny) to slum it in economy. And what about a 47-year-old who still stays in hostels? Do these people deserve their pariah status? Or might we have something to learn from listening to their perspectives? from Three Maligned Modern Tourists Defend Themselves [Vice]
I am confident we don't need the perspective of the landloadd, and that they do deserve pariah status.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 12:50 PM on May 25 [38 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 12:50 PM on May 25 [38 favorites]
This is not what the landlord should be struggling to defend imo.
posted by mhoye at 12:58 PM on May 25 [16 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 12:58 PM on May 25 [16 favorites]
The new money land owner leaving the kids in economy is perfect and self correcting. The hostel thing is entirely self selecting and I have no problem there. its the third one. They are labeled as a ‘disney adult’ but the actual issue is that being tourists is too close to our shared and lived reality and they prefer Disney to reality.
posted by zenon at 1:21 PM on May 25 [10 favorites]
posted by zenon at 1:21 PM on May 25 [10 favorites]
We might have learned more from listening to their perspectives if the piece were more than half a dozen questions to each subject. It’s just bare minimum effort hate bait.
posted by d-no at 1:23 PM on May 25 [16 favorites]
posted by d-no at 1:23 PM on May 25 [16 favorites]
Yeah, the hostel guy sounds fairly socially savvy and honestly as someone who's approaching that age and staying in hostels - occasionally the younger crowd IS interested in your experience, especially of the places you've been. Maybe it's a difference between continents, but in Europe and Asia hostels are all-ages. I tend to pick them half because price and half because damn, hotel stays can get lonely when you're travelling on your own. In hostels there's a much stronger culture of striking up conversations.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 1:26 PM on May 25 [37 favorites]
posted by I claim sanctuary at 1:26 PM on May 25 [37 favorites]
It's funny, when I read about the expense of Disney vacations, I think "I could go on a months long backpacking trip for that price!" But I would probably be staying in hostels here and there.
For that kind of travel, hostels are sometimes the only game in town, and there are real advantages being around other backpackers.
posted by surlyben at 1:26 PM on May 25 [9 favorites]
For that kind of travel, hostels are sometimes the only game in town, and there are real advantages being around other backpackers.
posted by surlyben at 1:26 PM on May 25 [9 favorites]
I didn't find this bad? Enjoy yourself how you want. (Though I admit I can see the logic about small children in first class not appreciating it and annoying everyone else.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:43 PM on May 25 [7 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:43 PM on May 25 [7 favorites]
I might opt to stay in a hostel because I can't afford either the going rate for an AirBnB or a hotel in an expensive urban environment. This is not a How Do You Do Fellow Kids moment. As a queer dude with not a lot of money, if a bunch of younger people choose to perceive me as "creepy," then I hope they make/have access to better financial choices than I did in life, because that's literally the decision vector for me.
posted by mykescipark at 1:47 PM on May 25 [17 favorites]
posted by mykescipark at 1:47 PM on May 25 [17 favorites]
Landlord guy: he does kind of make a good case. Probably reprehensible in other ways though.
Disney fan: she lost me at "It’s hard to say that Paris itself would necessarily be a more authentic French experience".
Hostel guy: he's fine.
posted by zompist at 1:54 PM on May 25 [26 favorites]
Disney fan: she lost me at "It’s hard to say that Paris itself would necessarily be a more authentic French experience".
Hostel guy: he's fine.
posted by zompist at 1:54 PM on May 25 [26 favorites]
If you've ever met a megafan of Disney parks, this person is a fairly tame exemplar.
(And I sort of sympathize with "Germany doesn't even have rides" statement... I mean, maybe a couple of sad merry-go-rounds.)
posted by credulous at 1:56 PM on May 25 [2 favorites]
(And I sort of sympathize with "Germany doesn't even have rides" statement... I mean, maybe a couple of sad merry-go-rounds.)
posted by credulous at 1:56 PM on May 25 [2 favorites]
I've got no problem with Disney adults. You do you. But "Definitely as they get older, they’ll be able to fly first class – as long as they can afford to pay the bill."?
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by rikschell at 1:56 PM on May 25 [15 favorites]
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by rikschell at 1:56 PM on May 25 [15 favorites]
I loved the troll ride at the Norway section of Epcot but after actually going to Norway and seeing the fjords and all that I'd take that over Disney.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:17 PM on May 25 [6 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:17 PM on May 25 [6 favorites]
Yes but the trolls there are all just big rocks.
Of course I was only there during midsummer, so they would be.
posted by Zalzidrax at 2:19 PM on May 25 [18 favorites]
Of course I was only there during midsummer, so they would be.
posted by Zalzidrax at 2:19 PM on May 25 [18 favorites]
one of my favorite places i ever stayed was a hostel: a castle overlooking the Mediterranean. i was travelling with a couple friends & we did not have solid plans. our plane home was in a couple weeks. i had a few more places on the itinerary, but we all decided to just chill there for a week: walk down to the beach, etc. one of the best decisions i've made in my life i think
when i was going to be in the area again, i looked it up. gone. turned into condos or something. anyway, recommended
posted by HearHere at 2:37 PM on May 25 [10 favorites]
when i was going to be in the area again, i looked it up. gone. turned into condos or something. anyway, recommended
posted by HearHere at 2:37 PM on May 25 [10 favorites]
An older guy, I was still doing Hostels in my 40's. What's the big deal? I'm poor and I want to go places. Oh other people might think me creepy? Not my problem, I'm not hanging out, or hitting on anyone. Just recently went on a trip with my birth family, luckily my sister took care of the reservations. I have to say, having a room of my own was really nice, but
Having to pay for it myself is still a problem.
I don't have a problem with Disney superfans either, not my thing, but you do you.
I do have a problem with landlords, but this guy seems to be manufacturing his own comeuppance, so, go team.
posted by evilDoug at 2:40 PM on May 25 [18 favorites]
Having to pay for it myself is still a problem.
I don't have a problem with Disney superfans either, not my thing, but you do you.
I do have a problem with landlords, but this guy seems to be manufacturing his own comeuppance, so, go team.
posted by evilDoug at 2:40 PM on May 25 [18 favorites]
It's sometimes particularly interesting to visit a simulacrum of another place. On a recent trip to Germany, we met up a relative who was stationed at Ramstein Air Force Base and were able to tour it, which was quite interesting in and of itself. Still, the standout moment was being able to go to the BX, which was a bizarre alternate-universe approximation of an American shopping mall. Within that shopping mall was a simulacrum of a German beer garden, where I got currywurst and dumplings and had the most authentically inauthentic German experience I could potentially have in Germany itself, like some sort of Charlie Kaufman matryoshka doll of nationality and cuisine.
That being said, what is even more interesting is to visit both the simulacrum of a place and the real thing to compare and contrast reality and fantasy to experience the best of both, luxuriating in the shallow fantasy of a simulated thing and then experiencing the complexity and nuance of the lived experience of the real. There's little harm in Disney being someone's jam, and I still love EPCOT (especially the older, strangely idealistic rides), but there's nothing at EPCOT or Eurodisney that will match the experience of having a jamon et beurre grabbed en route on the streets of Paris.
posted by eschatfische at 2:44 PM on May 25 [16 favorites]
That being said, what is even more interesting is to visit both the simulacrum of a place and the real thing to compare and contrast reality and fantasy to experience the best of both, luxuriating in the shallow fantasy of a simulated thing and then experiencing the complexity and nuance of the lived experience of the real. There's little harm in Disney being someone's jam, and I still love EPCOT (especially the older, strangely idealistic rides), but there's nothing at EPCOT or Eurodisney that will match the experience of having a jamon et beurre grabbed en route on the streets of Paris.
posted by eschatfische at 2:44 PM on May 25 [16 favorites]
The only reasons I wouldn’t try a hostel at my age are logistical. I get up in the night for the bathroom, and I got a lot of toiletries, medications, and whatnot to set out. Getting older means sometimes you need elevators and a hand with your stuff when you wouldn’t before. But I wouldn’t be embarrassed in one, for certain. I definitely saw older women using them when I did. (In fact, one was a YWCA where some of them were residents. Murdered by gentrification; all condos now.)
posted by Countess Elena at 2:45 PM on May 25 [14 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 2:45 PM on May 25 [14 favorites]
Isn’t the parents flying first class while the kids are in coach the underlying basis for how Home Alone happens?
posted by Big Al 8000 at 2:45 PM on May 25 [11 favorites]
posted by Big Al 8000 at 2:45 PM on May 25 [11 favorites]
Home Alone happens because that neighbor kid is too nosy and looking through the van and mistakenly gets counted as one of the McCallister's kids. He's the true villain of the film.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:52 PM on May 25 [15 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:52 PM on May 25 [15 favorites]
They are labeled as a ‘disney adult’ but the actual issue is that being tourists is too close to our shared and lived reality and they prefer Disney to reality.
I am in some ways very adventurous and in other ways not. It's partly my autism, and it leads me to prefer familiar places to new ones. My favorite travel is either visiting a friend, or going to a conference. Conferences are much the same even if they're in a new city. I'm very cautious about food, so I'm always going to be the person who seeks out the most familiar food in any given place. Do you remember that novel, The Accidental Tourist? It's about a travel writer who tells people how to go to new places and have experiences that are as much like they're used to as possible. "In Paris, you'll want to pick the extra onions off your Big Mac." Stuff like that. I would use that guidebook, were I ever to go to Paris. I've often heard people here say things like, "Why even go to Bangkok if you're not going to eat street food?" Like food is the be-all and end-all. Were I ever to go to Bangkok, I would not eat street food. But surely Bangkok has much more to offer than that.
It's easy to scoff at people who remain Disney fans into adulthood. I'm not one of them, but here's what I can imagine really liking about going to Disney properties:
The way everything is organized and available. The two times I've been to a park as a adult, I found it really easy to navigate.
The plentiful but familiar-ish food options.
The way new rides or attractions are built on familiar models.
The sense that you are there with other people who really love the thing you love. I have friends who've gone to, say, Star Wars themed things and felt they were really among their own. Disney is a place where you're allowed to be enthusiastic.
The accessibility. I have friends who are devoted to Disney because they're so good with accessibility for people with disabilities, including children, and including autistic adults and kids. It's an adventure where my friends get all the support they need to have a great time as a family.
I like meeting people to be a big part of my travel, and I bet I'd get to chat with lots of interesting people if I spent a day at Disney.
Disney may own most of our cultural world now, but people don't just enjoy Disney because they're programmed to. They enjoy it because it really does offer something that is of value to them.
I appreciated what the Disney person mentioned about a lot of travel also being packaged and artificial. The usual round of things to do in any given city. People are always asking on AskMe how to go somewhere and "avoid the usual tourist stuff." They want to see themselves as above participating in an endless round of people going to the same places and seeing the same things. They're looking for something that feels authentic to them, and that means they recognize that most tourism is as packaged and routinized as Disney. That kind of travel is still meaningful for people who undertake it. People are looking for different things, and it's better to consider what their things might be, and why those might be valid, rather than dismissing millions of people as shallow non-thinkers who just go where they're told.
posted by Well I never at 3:01 PM on May 25 [49 favorites]
I am in some ways very adventurous and in other ways not. It's partly my autism, and it leads me to prefer familiar places to new ones. My favorite travel is either visiting a friend, or going to a conference. Conferences are much the same even if they're in a new city. I'm very cautious about food, so I'm always going to be the person who seeks out the most familiar food in any given place. Do you remember that novel, The Accidental Tourist? It's about a travel writer who tells people how to go to new places and have experiences that are as much like they're used to as possible. "In Paris, you'll want to pick the extra onions off your Big Mac." Stuff like that. I would use that guidebook, were I ever to go to Paris. I've often heard people here say things like, "Why even go to Bangkok if you're not going to eat street food?" Like food is the be-all and end-all. Were I ever to go to Bangkok, I would not eat street food. But surely Bangkok has much more to offer than that.
It's easy to scoff at people who remain Disney fans into adulthood. I'm not one of them, but here's what I can imagine really liking about going to Disney properties:
The way everything is organized and available. The two times I've been to a park as a adult, I found it really easy to navigate.
The plentiful but familiar-ish food options.
The way new rides or attractions are built on familiar models.
The sense that you are there with other people who really love the thing you love. I have friends who've gone to, say, Star Wars themed things and felt they were really among their own. Disney is a place where you're allowed to be enthusiastic.
The accessibility. I have friends who are devoted to Disney because they're so good with accessibility for people with disabilities, including children, and including autistic adults and kids. It's an adventure where my friends get all the support they need to have a great time as a family.
I like meeting people to be a big part of my travel, and I bet I'd get to chat with lots of interesting people if I spent a day at Disney.
Disney may own most of our cultural world now, but people don't just enjoy Disney because they're programmed to. They enjoy it because it really does offer something that is of value to them.
I appreciated what the Disney person mentioned about a lot of travel also being packaged and artificial. The usual round of things to do in any given city. People are always asking on AskMe how to go somewhere and "avoid the usual tourist stuff." They want to see themselves as above participating in an endless round of people going to the same places and seeing the same things. They're looking for something that feels authentic to them, and that means they recognize that most tourism is as packaged and routinized as Disney. That kind of travel is still meaningful for people who undertake it. People are looking for different things, and it's better to consider what their things might be, and why those might be valid, rather than dismissing millions of people as shallow non-thinkers who just go where they're told.
posted by Well I never at 3:01 PM on May 25 [49 favorites]
I've been to Disneyworld twice, not my 1st choice, not on my dime, either. It's really fun and just as tasty as orange soda; sweet and artificial. I didn't learn much there, other than how cleverly it's constructed to induce feelings and a certain experience, which was quite interesting. The rides are pretty fun, but so are the rides at the county fair, and I can also look at all the animals and 4H exhibits. Friends insisted our reunion be in Las Vegas, and had miles to make it affordable, and it feels the same - a very artificial environment to entertain you and pry money from your pocket. Cirq du Soleil Beatles was awesome, the fountain at Bellagio is gorgeous, otherwise it's just so weird.
Children do not need giant seats or wine; it's a little less horribly harmful to the environment for children to take smaller seats on a full plane. We hates property guy for being property guy.
Hostel guy is fine with me, esp. for recognizing that he might skeeve some kids out.
I remember traveling overseas at 22 and meeting people from all over, experiencing a bit of different culture, architecture, commonplace design differences. I love the big museums, and a lot of tourist stuff that's famous for good reason. I also love different graffiti, transportation, and getting my sense of perspective jostled. And I love hearing from people with experience, without which I would not have seen Old Faithful (Yellowstone NP, US) erupt at night under a full moon, with a lightning storm in the distance. Not everything is in the travel guide.
posted by theora55 at 3:45 PM on May 25 [7 favorites]
Children do not need giant seats or wine; it's a little less horribly harmful to the environment for children to take smaller seats on a full plane. We hates property guy for being property guy.
Hostel guy is fine with me, esp. for recognizing that he might skeeve some kids out.
I remember traveling overseas at 22 and meeting people from all over, experiencing a bit of different culture, architecture, commonplace design differences. I love the big museums, and a lot of tourist stuff that's famous for good reason. I also love different graffiti, transportation, and getting my sense of perspective jostled. And I love hearing from people with experience, without which I would not have seen Old Faithful (Yellowstone NP, US) erupt at night under a full moon, with a lightning storm in the distance. Not everything is in the travel guide.
posted by theora55 at 3:45 PM on May 25 [7 favorites]
Everyone is glossing over the fact that not only the kids, but also the nanny (who is literally the only one flying on business while the rest of the family is on vacation) has to fly economy?
Landlord dad even says "When you go on holiday with your kids and you arrive at a destination having slept well [thanks to first class], you’re going to be able to give them a better holiday". Doesn't this logic apply to the nanny even more than it applies to the parents?
Of course, the whole concept of first class is fundamentally messed up, and these stories simply highlight it.
posted by splitpeasoup at 5:20 PM on May 25 [10 favorites]
Landlord dad even says "When you go on holiday with your kids and you arrive at a destination having slept well [thanks to first class], you’re going to be able to give them a better holiday". Doesn't this logic apply to the nanny even more than it applies to the parents?
Of course, the whole concept of first class is fundamentally messed up, and these stories simply highlight it.
posted by splitpeasoup at 5:20 PM on May 25 [10 favorites]
So I do agree that children don't belong in first class and I also accept that for families that can afford them, nannies are great. But that guy seems to ... maybe not hate his children, but resent them or something. At least that's how he comes across in those few questions. Taking them on vacation seems like an entire afterthought, especially bringing the nanny along. I imagine the nanny is probably taking the kids to do stuff while their parents do their own thing. And at that point ... why even take your kids on vacation with you?
Maybe I'm just extrapolating. I don't know.
Disney adult woman -- yeah, you do you. I'm not a Disney fan, really, but as someone who's been trying to plan a vacation for myself, it's hard to figure it out where to go and what to do once I'm there (I'm currently trying to commit to a trip to Asheville and I just need to book it already). I 100% understand the structure a Disney experience would provide. Could she get that from something else? Probably. But she likes what she likes and I can't hate it.
Hostel dude -- no issue at all. He seems self-aware and likes meeting people.
posted by edencosmic at 5:55 PM on May 25 [5 favorites]
Maybe I'm just extrapolating. I don't know.
Disney adult woman -- yeah, you do you. I'm not a Disney fan, really, but as someone who's been trying to plan a vacation for myself, it's hard to figure it out where to go and what to do once I'm there (I'm currently trying to commit to a trip to Asheville and I just need to book it already). I 100% understand the structure a Disney experience would provide. Could she get that from something else? Probably. But she likes what she likes and I can't hate it.
Hostel dude -- no issue at all. He seems self-aware and likes meeting people.
posted by edencosmic at 5:55 PM on May 25 [5 favorites]
None of these are really the tourists people like to hate though? I thought it was going to be about the people who go to another country for the weekend just to get drunk and yell all night, vandalize sacred monuments and be their absolute worst selves... I was wondering what their justification would be.
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:20 PM on May 25 [11 favorites]
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:20 PM on May 25 [11 favorites]
Maybe it's having grown up in a tourist town automatically puts my bar for egregiously bad tourist behavior pretty high, but outside of the landlord dad's certainty that he is doing the kids a favor 100% setting them up with actual personal lived experience to hate the rich when they start studying Marxism in college, none of these seem even remotely offensive.
Talk to me when they stiff the waiter in order to block local traffic in front of a hospital to feed a bear or some shit like that. Then we'll talk.
posted by thivaia at 6:51 PM on May 25 [9 favorites]
Talk to me when they stiff the waiter in order to block local traffic in front of a hospital to feed a bear or some shit like that. Then we'll talk.
posted by thivaia at 6:51 PM on May 25 [9 favorites]
Last time I did hostels was when I was in my mid 20s. Sadly some didn't have the option for private rooms, so I was saddled with smelly teen european boys in some cases. But for the most part, it was fine, and I'd do it again if I could guarantee private rooms. I do recall occasionally an older person(>40), but mostly I was the Old Guy. It was a cool way to meet people I otherwise would never meet.
I can't get too upset about the landlord. He makes a good argument.
Disney isn't my thing, even though I've been to Disneyworld many times. Would probably still go occasionally, were it not so expensive. It was always a thing I did on somebody else's dime, or as a treat for a kid. But other than that, Disney is easy for me to ignore.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:44 PM on May 25 [1 favorite]
I can't get too upset about the landlord. He makes a good argument.
Disney isn't my thing, even though I've been to Disneyworld many times. Would probably still go occasionally, were it not so expensive. It was always a thing I did on somebody else's dime, or as a treat for a kid. But other than that, Disney is easy for me to ignore.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:44 PM on May 25 [1 favorite]
I did some hostel travel into my mid thirties. It's absolutely a different kind of travel experience, and in many ways superior. Get tips from the people about to leave town, pass them on to the people just arriving. Far better advice than you'll get from a concierge. I travel a lot less now, and will pay for hotels.
But that guy isn't even sharing a room! Nothing creepy about it.
Everyone is glossing over the fact that not only the kids, but also the nanny (who is literally the only one flying on business while the rest of the family is on vacation) has to fly economy?
The companies I know will generally make employees fly economy, even ones who fly a lot, even ones with decent titles and earning $200k+. If the nanny is being paid and treated well overall and is "on the clock" for the flight (admittedly big ifs) it's not mistreating her to have her with the kids. (Actually, if she's on the clock for the flight she's being treated better in this one respect than most upper middle class wage earners I know.)
posted by mark k at 9:21 PM on May 25 [4 favorites]
But that guy isn't even sharing a room! Nothing creepy about it.
Everyone is glossing over the fact that not only the kids, but also the nanny (who is literally the only one flying on business while the rest of the family is on vacation) has to fly economy?
The companies I know will generally make employees fly economy, even ones who fly a lot, even ones with decent titles and earning $200k+. If the nanny is being paid and treated well overall and is "on the clock" for the flight (admittedly big ifs) it's not mistreating her to have her with the kids. (Actually, if she's on the clock for the flight she's being treated better in this one respect than most upper middle class wage earners I know.)
posted by mark k at 9:21 PM on May 25 [4 favorites]
I think we can also judge the landlord for the picture he provided.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 9:51 PM on May 25 [8 favorites]
posted by vibratory manner of working at 9:51 PM on May 25 [8 favorites]
Hostels can be great. I do the single room thing also, feels a bit safer but really it's for a bit more privacy, deeper sleep. I've met fun people, of all ages, too. I'm in art museums and/or whatever there is of interest to me in whatever city but hostels, and the ppl in them, it can be sweet.
SF is dirty and it's sure cold-hearted and it's been 10 years, and from what we read those ten years haven't gone in a good direction -- still, so much beauty there. I'm still enough a tourist to love the Golden Gate bridge. I don't know if I'll make it back but I'll hit that bridge if I do. I love looking out, West, The Rest Of The World is West, covered in the beautiful Pacific. And I love looking East also, that beautiful town, such interesting people, the wind blowing around and through you --- you'll only go once without a good windbreaker. Looking East, at the Bay, I think of Jack London -- dead at forty, yet how much he gave us -- I think how deep he cut the waters in that bay, how deep he cut the waters in our hearts.
Closer in to town I've a bit of a hide-away, a perfect place to meditate, a perfect place to write, it's sortof hidden in plain site so it's mine mine mine. (OK, I'll send you a pic showing exactly where it is but you have to agree to give a broken person five or ten bucks, and tell them something nice, maybe say "Man, that's a nice jacket." and touch their arm, lighten their pain.) A five minute walk from the hostel! I loved Otis Redding "Dock Of The Bay" the first time I heard it and love it still, and tucked into my writing place feels exactly how that song sounds.
The hostel is just great, a long walk to lots of the best of town, a short walk to a bus stop that will get you everywhere, a fireplace stacked and burning, a pretty fair library if I want to give it a try, comfortable and warm, esp nice on a cold windy night.
Houston had a spectacular hostel but it was just too good to last, it had at one time been the mayors house, swimming pool, pool table, a really good "take one leave one" library, etc and etc. It was exactly in the heart of the piece of Houston I truly love, walk to the museums, walk to this one rockin' library, walk to my favorite restaurants, a couple good bookstores, to boot.
I've got to find what might be there now in Houston, I know one I like but the location sucks. can't ever match that one. I'd never live there again, Houston mostly sucks it, but for two days it's really grand.
And then the next day, to wake up here in Austin, I like that part...
posted by dancestoblue at 1:07 AM on May 26 [6 favorites]
SF is dirty and it's sure cold-hearted and it's been 10 years, and from what we read those ten years haven't gone in a good direction -- still, so much beauty there. I'm still enough a tourist to love the Golden Gate bridge. I don't know if I'll make it back but I'll hit that bridge if I do. I love looking out, West, The Rest Of The World is West, covered in the beautiful Pacific. And I love looking East also, that beautiful town, such interesting people, the wind blowing around and through you --- you'll only go once without a good windbreaker. Looking East, at the Bay, I think of Jack London -- dead at forty, yet how much he gave us -- I think how deep he cut the waters in that bay, how deep he cut the waters in our hearts.
Closer in to town I've a bit of a hide-away, a perfect place to meditate, a perfect place to write, it's sortof hidden in plain site so it's mine mine mine. (OK, I'll send you a pic showing exactly where it is but you have to agree to give a broken person five or ten bucks, and tell them something nice, maybe say "Man, that's a nice jacket." and touch their arm, lighten their pain.) A five minute walk from the hostel! I loved Otis Redding "Dock Of The Bay" the first time I heard it and love it still, and tucked into my writing place feels exactly how that song sounds.
The hostel is just great, a long walk to lots of the best of town, a short walk to a bus stop that will get you everywhere, a fireplace stacked and burning, a pretty fair library if I want to give it a try, comfortable and warm, esp nice on a cold windy night.
Houston had a spectacular hostel but it was just too good to last, it had at one time been the mayors house, swimming pool, pool table, a really good "take one leave one" library, etc and etc. It was exactly in the heart of the piece of Houston I truly love, walk to the museums, walk to this one rockin' library, walk to my favorite restaurants, a couple good bookstores, to boot.
I've got to find what might be there now in Houston, I know one I like but the location sucks. can't ever match that one. I'd never live there again, Houston mostly sucks it, but for two days it's really grand.
And then the next day, to wake up here in Austin, I like that part...
posted by dancestoblue at 1:07 AM on May 26 [6 favorites]
Children do not need giant seats or wine;
Nor do adults.
it's a little less horribly harmful to the environment for children to take smaller seats on a full plane.
Also true for adults.
We hates property guy for being property guy.
No, we hates him for thinking he deserves better than others.
posted by Dysk at 1:29 AM on May 26 [13 favorites]
Nor do adults.
it's a little less horribly harmful to the environment for children to take smaller seats on a full plane.
Also true for adults.
We hates property guy for being property guy.
No, we hates him for thinking he deserves better than others.
posted by Dysk at 1:29 AM on May 26 [13 favorites]
Plane: He's a dick. I wouldn't be able to sit in first class while I relegated my kids and nanny to economy class. You're all in this together. Sit side by side. Share desserts. Walk with them to the bathroom. Talk about planes. Talk about clouds. And that's just the nanny. You should also have some sort of interactions with your offspring.
Disney: I have never liked Disney stuff -- I can't stand fairground rides, for one thing -- so maybe you'd call me an Anti-Disney Adult? Anyway, I just can't fathom people who take Disney vacations. I understand the allure of a package vacation that handles the tedious things so you can focus on things you care about, but not someone who prefers the Disney version to actually being there.
Hostel: I've never used them, but I thought hostels were just a way to trade your privacy for lower rates. It's only half the price of a hotel room, but you need to bunk with a dozen strangers and wait your turn for toilets and showers. I didn't realize you were expected to be 25 years old and eager to socialize with other 25-year-olds (or whatever the implication is here) and scorned if you weren't. I don't see a problem with anyone using a hostel as long as they follow the hostel rules, and those rule shouldn't exclude any sort of person.
My favorite kind of tourist takes the bus or train (and maybe bikes or hikes) to somewhere relatively nearby, like a cabin on a lake or in the woods or whatever, and goes there for the quiet, not to make noise. My least favorite kind of tourist jets far away with a list of stuff they want to pose in front of, like going to the Louvre and standing in a long line of similar people just to get a selfie with the Mona Lisa, even when art generally means little or nothing to them.
posted by pracowity at 1:42 AM on May 26 [4 favorites]
Disney: I have never liked Disney stuff -- I can't stand fairground rides, for one thing -- so maybe you'd call me an Anti-Disney Adult? Anyway, I just can't fathom people who take Disney vacations. I understand the allure of a package vacation that handles the tedious things so you can focus on things you care about, but not someone who prefers the Disney version to actually being there.
Hostel: I've never used them, but I thought hostels were just a way to trade your privacy for lower rates. It's only half the price of a hotel room, but you need to bunk with a dozen strangers and wait your turn for toilets and showers. I didn't realize you were expected to be 25 years old and eager to socialize with other 25-year-olds (or whatever the implication is here) and scorned if you weren't. I don't see a problem with anyone using a hostel as long as they follow the hostel rules, and those rule shouldn't exclude any sort of person.
My favorite kind of tourist takes the bus or train (and maybe bikes or hikes) to somewhere relatively nearby, like a cabin on a lake or in the woods or whatever, and goes there for the quiet, not to make noise. My least favorite kind of tourist jets far away with a list of stuff they want to pose in front of, like going to the Louvre and standing in a long line of similar people just to get a selfie with the Mona Lisa, even when art generally means little or nothing to them.
posted by pracowity at 1:42 AM on May 26 [4 favorites]
standing in a long line of similar people just to get a selfie with the Mona Lisa,
Mrs A. took our daughter to the Louvre a few years back and so to the crush in front of the Mona Lisa, where a battery of cellphones was snapping proof of presence for the owners, all to the exasperation of the guards ("Pas de stick, s'il vous plait!"). Finding it all a bit much, she and she retreated to Salle 710, where Mrs A. saw this canvas being ignored by all, and spontaneously exclaimed, "Oh look, a Rafael Madonna."
Which alone was enough for a few of folk within earshot to break off and direct their cameras at the unsuspected treasure.
posted by BWA at 6:52 AM on May 26 [3 favorites]
Mrs A. took our daughter to the Louvre a few years back and so to the crush in front of the Mona Lisa, where a battery of cellphones was snapping proof of presence for the owners, all to the exasperation of the guards ("Pas de stick, s'il vous plait!"). Finding it all a bit much, she and she retreated to Salle 710, where Mrs A. saw this canvas being ignored by all, and spontaneously exclaimed, "Oh look, a Rafael Madonna."
Which alone was enough for a few of folk within earshot to break off and direct their cameras at the unsuspected treasure.
posted by BWA at 6:52 AM on May 26 [3 favorites]
precision-engineered to wind up people on Twitter and TikTok
What, they couldn't spell "MetaFilter?"
posted by cupcakeninja at 7:07 AM on May 26 [6 favorites]
What, they couldn't spell "MetaFilter?"
posted by cupcakeninja at 7:07 AM on May 26 [6 favorites]
(pracowity - you'd probably like us as tourists)
We're on Team Hostel. If you book a private room with bath, you're not skeeving out the kids (and vice versa), and there are still opportunities for fun interactions. We are paying extra for the private room, which helps the hostel. It's not so different from a small, unfussy hotel, which we also like. We stayed in a little hostel in Montmartre last fall, and it was nice.
That trip, and some other reporting, drove home the point that some places are approaching tourist saturation. Paris was still awesome, but all the postcard-subject spots were pretty busy. The 45 min lineup at Versailles, even with a pre-purchased reservation! Shuffling with the herd through the Hall of Mirrors, selfie-sticks aloft. (The palace at Versailles is not my idea of fun; it was at Mrs C's request. In return she endured 3 hrs with me in the Cité du Train museum in Mulhouse. But i digress). We haven't been to Barcelona, Rome or Venice, but have read about the growing backlash against the crowds of tourists.
Anyway, as a western tourist, I'm more conscious these days of our impact on the places we visit. These impacts, in my opinion, are more important considerations than the "transgressions" in TFA.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:29 AM on May 26 [6 favorites]
We're on Team Hostel. If you book a private room with bath, you're not skeeving out the kids (and vice versa), and there are still opportunities for fun interactions. We are paying extra for the private room, which helps the hostel. It's not so different from a small, unfussy hotel, which we also like. We stayed in a little hostel in Montmartre last fall, and it was nice.
That trip, and some other reporting, drove home the point that some places are approaching tourist saturation. Paris was still awesome, but all the postcard-subject spots were pretty busy. The 45 min lineup at Versailles, even with a pre-purchased reservation! Shuffling with the herd through the Hall of Mirrors, selfie-sticks aloft. (The palace at Versailles is not my idea of fun; it was at Mrs C's request. In return she endured 3 hrs with me in the Cité du Train museum in Mulhouse. But i digress). We haven't been to Barcelona, Rome or Venice, but have read about the growing backlash against the crowds of tourists.
Anyway, as a western tourist, I'm more conscious these days of our impact on the places we visit. These impacts, in my opinion, are more important considerations than the "transgressions" in TFA.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:29 AM on May 26 [6 favorites]
the landlord is a psychopath, but i repeat myself. look at the stance in the picture. verdict: total dingus; get in the sea.
(it's partly the airline's fault for having first class, though. it's hilarious that they just nakedly refer to the situation, where people like this guy pay a bunch of money to be showered in unnecessary additional amenities (presumably this is what is going on up there?) while everyone else is literally allocated insufficient physical space, as "class". like everyone's bought a ticket to some sort of participatory/allegorical sociology lecture.)
the disney person is a person with some sort of nerdy interest in disney things; i am sure most people would find my idiosyncratic interests weird, too. verdict: this person is fine, the internet should leave her alone.
hostel person: guy sounds kind of boring but also self-aware enough to know that the way to not look like an asshole in this thing is to look self-aware. also i have a soft spot for the optometry profession, theirs is a noble calling. verdict: this person is fine, the internet should leave him alone.
posted by busted_crayons at 8:18 AM on May 26 [5 favorites]
(it's partly the airline's fault for having first class, though. it's hilarious that they just nakedly refer to the situation, where people like this guy pay a bunch of money to be showered in unnecessary additional amenities (presumably this is what is going on up there?) while everyone else is literally allocated insufficient physical space, as "class". like everyone's bought a ticket to some sort of participatory/allegorical sociology lecture.)
the disney person is a person with some sort of nerdy interest in disney things; i am sure most people would find my idiosyncratic interests weird, too. verdict: this person is fine, the internet should leave her alone.
hostel person: guy sounds kind of boring but also self-aware enough to know that the way to not look like an asshole in this thing is to look self-aware. also i have a soft spot for the optometry profession, theirs is a noble calling. verdict: this person is fine, the internet should leave him alone.
posted by busted_crayons at 8:18 AM on May 26 [5 favorites]
Anyway, as a western tourist, I'm more conscious these days of our impact on the places we visit.
The crowd in my anecdote was overwhelmingly Chinese. I don't see that it much matters, a crowd is a crowd. (Alec Guinness once wrote of his visit to the Sistine Chapel in the 1930s. He was alone and could lie supine, training binoculars at his leisure. It will take another financial catastrophe for that scenario to play out again.)
posted by BWA at 8:27 AM on May 26 [5 favorites]
The crowd in my anecdote was overwhelmingly Chinese. I don't see that it much matters, a crowd is a crowd. (Alec Guinness once wrote of his visit to the Sistine Chapel in the 1930s. He was alone and could lie supine, training binoculars at his leisure. It will take another financial catastrophe for that scenario to play out again.)
posted by BWA at 8:27 AM on May 26 [5 favorites]
Regarding the landlord. I would think that all a typical young kid cares about is getting a window seat! And a break from their parents only makes it more exciting.
posted by serena15221 at 9:03 AM on May 26 [2 favorites]
posted by serena15221 at 9:03 AM on May 26 [2 favorites]
Landlord dude is at the center of a Venn diagram of contempt, but as a parent I think the most offensive part to me is the parents who don’t want to spend time with their kids to the point of bringing a nanny on vacation.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 9:41 AM on May 26 [5 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 9:41 AM on May 26 [5 favorites]
I was thinking about that, but maybe it's a something they all like: the parents get help with the kids without necessarily being separated from the kids once they get to their destination, the kids get to be with their beloved nanny and their parents, and the nanny gets to see France or wherever they're going.
posted by pracowity at 10:35 AM on May 26 [2 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 10:35 AM on May 26 [2 favorites]
Alternately, he calls his wife “the nanny” and is sitting in first class by himself
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 1:21 PM on May 26 [4 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 1:21 PM on May 26 [4 favorites]
Landlord dude is at the center of a Venn diagram of contempt, but as a parent I think the most offensive part to me is the parents who don’t want to spend time with their kids to the point of bringing a nanny on vacation.
I don't think anyone who's ever travelled with kids would dispute that an extra pair of adult hands/eyes can be incredibly helpful.
To me, though, it's just like, "so...you're saying you're too poor to fly everyone in first. Weird flex, bro."
posted by praemunire at 2:08 PM on May 26 [2 favorites]
I don't think anyone who's ever travelled with kids would dispute that an extra pair of adult hands/eyes can be incredibly helpful.
To me, though, it's just like, "so...you're saying you're too poor to fly everyone in first. Weird flex, bro."
posted by praemunire at 2:08 PM on May 26 [2 favorites]
I'm a hostel person, way older than 40. it's terrific.
posted by j_curiouser at 6:06 PM on May 26 [5 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 6:06 PM on May 26 [5 favorites]
We hates property guy for being property guy
No, I hate the bastard because he thinks he's better than everyone flying economy class.
He has such concern for people in first class who-... have a business meeting the next day and need to be fresh when they land.
He obviously expects his kids to be brats and doesn't care if the average salesperson or worker bee flying economy is disturbed, because they couldn't possibly be as important as first-class people.
... they’ll be able to fly first class – as long as they can afford to pay the bill.
His poor kids. I sure hope all of them have jobs that enable them to fly first class with the rest of the family in the future.
Flying economy ... also teaches them what the real world is about
Apparently, the real world is about a father who can ignore his responsibility to teach his children how to behave in social situations and push that job onto the nanny.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:09 PM on May 26 [6 favorites]
No, I hate the bastard because he thinks he's better than everyone flying economy class.
He has such concern for people in first class who-... have a business meeting the next day and need to be fresh when they land.
He obviously expects his kids to be brats and doesn't care if the average salesperson or worker bee flying economy is disturbed, because they couldn't possibly be as important as first-class people.
... they’ll be able to fly first class – as long as they can afford to pay the bill.
His poor kids. I sure hope all of them have jobs that enable them to fly first class with the rest of the family in the future.
Flying economy ... also teaches them what the real world is about
Apparently, the real world is about a father who can ignore his responsibility to teach his children how to behave in social situations and push that job onto the nanny.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:09 PM on May 26 [6 favorites]
Hating on the hosteler is a bit much to begin with. If your only experience with a hostel is the party hostel that has free slivovitz shots at the door, sure, but most of them are just another (cheaper) hotel.
Hostels are not hotels - they have advantages and disadvantages. But they are definitely for all ages!
The last time I stayed in a hostel, I met a lovely group of women in their '60s and '70s who were doing a walking tour. We were chatting in the kitchen while we cooked our breakfasts.
posted by jb at 4:20 PM on May 27 [5 favorites]
Hostels are not hotels - they have advantages and disadvantages. But they are definitely for all ages!
The last time I stayed in a hostel, I met a lovely group of women in their '60s and '70s who were doing a walking tour. We were chatting in the kitchen while we cooked our breakfasts.
posted by jb at 4:20 PM on May 27 [5 favorites]
Even with the attempt to frame these people as living on the edge, the only one that is even vaguely controversial is the landlord. Not surprised to see it the one provoking the most discussion.
It's weird intuitively because I can barely imagine a family with a nanny, and definitely can't identify with a couple with three young kids, a nanny, and the willingness, energy and funds to cart them all to various international locales. It seems weird to do it, but it seems weird to have the option to do it and it's hard to separate those two facts.
But also, hardly seems contentious in general that kids don't get to go everywhere parents do. What was described was perhaps a 10 hour period on a vacation where the kids were watched by someone else. I was at a gaming convention this week and chatted with a nice couple who left their one year old at home so they could play games and see friends. Similar with getting a sitter or grandparent to cover for you, so you go to a nice restaurant or the like.
A lot of complaints are projecting bad parenting behavior outside that time window. Could certainly be happening but the act itself is more unusual than outrageous.
posted by mark k at 7:51 PM on May 27 [2 favorites]
It's weird intuitively because I can barely imagine a family with a nanny, and definitely can't identify with a couple with three young kids, a nanny, and the willingness, energy and funds to cart them all to various international locales. It seems weird to do it, but it seems weird to have the option to do it and it's hard to separate those two facts.
But also, hardly seems contentious in general that kids don't get to go everywhere parents do. What was described was perhaps a 10 hour period on a vacation where the kids were watched by someone else. I was at a gaming convention this week and chatted with a nice couple who left their one year old at home so they could play games and see friends. Similar with getting a sitter or grandparent to cover for you, so you go to a nice restaurant or the like.
A lot of complaints are projecting bad parenting behavior outside that time window. Could certainly be happening but the act itself is more unusual than outrageous.
posted by mark k at 7:51 PM on May 27 [2 favorites]
It's the fact that the kids are in the plane with him. It's not like going to the movies and leaving your kids with a sitter. It's like taking your kids to the movies, getting them cheap seats way at the back, and then getting yourself a deluxe fancy chair right at the front. That's what is weird - the family are all doing the same thing at the same time, just not together, because daddy deserves something nicer than everyone else.
posted by Dysk at 9:55 PM on May 27 [4 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 9:55 PM on May 27 [4 favorites]
I've flown first class while my kids and husband were in coach; it was glorious and I feel no remorse. I'd gotten an upgrade (via a Mefite!) and I wasn't going to let that leg room go to waste. I was a full-time parent and the last thing any of us needed was more time together.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:16 PM on May 28 [2 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:16 PM on May 28 [2 favorites]
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