full fathom five thy (fore)father lies
May 26, 2024 4:01 AM Subscribe
There’s no reason or evidence for a modern structure to have been built underwater at this site, says team member Marcel Bradtmöller, an archaeologist at the University of Rostock, Germany. Nor can the team think of any natural process that could create such a structure. [doi]
The streets of Doggerlandia...
posted by Morpeth at 6:07 AM on May 26, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by Morpeth at 6:07 AM on May 26, 2024 [2 favorites]
Had not heard about this--how cool! I've read many hypotheses about prehistoric hunting practices, but I don't think I've ever heard of anything quite like this, and the "hunting architecture" doesn't seem unreasonable, given the vast extent of landscaping and architecture people build for hunting today in situations where it's more recreational or cultural than survival.
posted by cupcakeninja at 6:29 AM on May 26, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 6:29 AM on May 26, 2024 [2 favorites]
Could it be an unusual kind of glacial moraine? Are the stones of local origin?
The hunting idea seems to lack basis. There are no hunters saying ‘obviously a hunting wall’, no known remains of animals or hunting weapons associated with the stones. IANAH, but it doesn’t seem like a worthwhile expenditure of effort.
Anyway, isn’t the correct default archaeological explanation supposed to be religious use?
posted by Phanx at 6:53 AM on May 26, 2024 [2 favorites]
The hunting idea seems to lack basis. There are no hunters saying ‘obviously a hunting wall’, no known remains of animals or hunting weapons associated with the stones. IANAH, but it doesn’t seem like a worthwhile expenditure of effort.
Anyway, isn’t the correct default archaeological explanation supposed to be religious use?
posted by Phanx at 6:53 AM on May 26, 2024 [2 favorites]
It could, of course, have been a defense against attackers from the sea...
posted by cupcakeninja at 7:02 AM on May 26, 2024 [5 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 7:02 AM on May 26, 2024 [5 favorites]
I wonder if there could have been flags on top, a type of fladry to corral predators or prey. (Fladry is a Polish word borrowed into many European languages to refer to strips or ribbons of cloth used to funnel wild animals onto a path. https://theconversation.com/guardian-dogs-fencing-and-fladry-protect-livestock-from-carnivores-103290#:~:text=%E2%80%9CFladry%E2%80%9D%20is%20a%20Polish%20word,a%20rope%20or%20fence%20line.)
posted by Mo Nickels at 7:42 AM on May 26, 2024 [8 favorites]
posted by Mo Nickels at 7:42 AM on May 26, 2024 [8 favorites]
no known remains of animals or hunting weapons
I could be wrong, but I think you need pretty specific conditions to preserve wood or any part of an animal for 10,000 years. Plus it’s underwater so it’s not so easy to excavate looking for any stone components like arrow heads that haven’t gotten smoothed out or broken to be unrecognizable.
posted by aubilenon at 8:28 AM on May 26, 2024 [7 favorites]
I could be wrong, but I think you need pretty specific conditions to preserve wood or any part of an animal for 10,000 years. Plus it’s underwater so it’s not so easy to excavate looking for any stone components like arrow heads that haven’t gotten smoothed out or broken to be unrecognizable.
posted by aubilenon at 8:28 AM on May 26, 2024 [7 favorites]
This article links to a related article about desert kites, similar hunting structures that have been well studied. This new one underwater has not been excavated so of course there are no remnants of hunting or tools yet. All we have are the radar scans and some pictures.
That other article is fascinating because not only do they have the desert kites, they also have 9000 year old schematic plans of them carved into rocks nearby. It's thought to be the first example of abstract architectural diagrams.
posted by Nelson at 11:02 AM on May 26, 2024 [11 favorites]
That other article is fascinating because not only do they have the desert kites, they also have 9000 year old schematic plans of them carved into rocks nearby. It's thought to be the first example of abstract architectural diagrams.
posted by Nelson at 11:02 AM on May 26, 2024 [11 favorites]
Could it be an unusual kind of glacial moraine? Are the stones of local origin?
There is no glacial valley (according to the paper), therefore no glacial moraine.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:15 PM on May 26, 2024 [2 favorites]
There is no glacial valley (according to the paper), therefore no glacial moraine.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:15 PM on May 26, 2024 [2 favorites]
Maybe it's just a very unusual kind of glacial moraine!
posted by aubilenon at 9:48 PM on May 26, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by aubilenon at 9:48 PM on May 26, 2024 [1 favorite]
Could it be an unusual kind of glacial moraine? Are the stones of local origin?
The hunting idea seems to lack basis.
The linked paper is an enjoyable read, I thought, and answers these questions.
The authors mention in the discussion section a few possibilities and reasons for this not likely to have a natural origin; and there's a table of similar-ish prehistoric hunting structures in other parts of the world. So there's a basis for this.
They even note that there's a slope along the wall, so these stones could've been more easily moved into location from a higher elevation.
I guess the promise of future laziness has always been a good motivator to do a lot of hard work now.
posted by UN at 10:40 PM on May 26, 2024 [5 favorites]
The hunting idea seems to lack basis.
The linked paper is an enjoyable read, I thought, and answers these questions.
The authors mention in the discussion section a few possibilities and reasons for this not likely to have a natural origin; and there's a table of similar-ish prehistoric hunting structures in other parts of the world. So there's a basis for this.
They even note that there's a slope along the wall, so these stones could've been more easily moved into location from a higher elevation.
I guess the promise of future laziness has always been a good motivator to do a lot of hard work now.
posted by UN at 10:40 PM on May 26, 2024 [5 favorites]
IANAH, but it doesn’t seem like a worthwhile expenditure of effort.
Much easier just to wait a few thousand years for the emergence of agriculture and the invention of gunpowder and firearms.
posted by rory at 1:09 AM on May 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
Much easier just to wait a few thousand years for the emergence of agriculture and the invention of gunpowder and firearms.
posted by rory at 1:09 AM on May 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
My first thought was a tidal fish trap, but a kilometre is crazy long for something like that.
posted by Hogshead at 8:01 AM on May 27, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by Hogshead at 8:01 AM on May 27, 2024 [1 favorite]
So very cool. I love uncovering early human history.
Plus I fooled around with making drystone walls. Man, that takes time.
posted by doctornemo at 12:25 PM on May 27, 2024 [1 favorite]
Plus I fooled around with making drystone walls. Man, that takes time.
posted by doctornemo at 12:25 PM on May 27, 2024 [1 favorite]
It would be huge as a monolithic build but it would be much easier if spread over a life time or more. Group gets together at the local hole in the ground. Maybe clears some brush to funnel game or flags on sticks.
A few weeks every year slowly start piling rocks into a wall starting at the hole. Every year it gets 10/15/50 metres longer. Over the course of a couple decades now the wall is a kilometre long. Sure stacking is work but so is chasing game.
And stones are durable. A stone wall, even dry stacked, requires minimal maintenance.
posted by Mitheral at 4:27 PM on May 27, 2024 [1 favorite]
A few weeks every year slowly start piling rocks into a wall starting at the hole. Every year it gets 10/15/50 metres longer. Over the course of a couple decades now the wall is a kilometre long. Sure stacking is work but so is chasing game.
And stones are durable. A stone wall, even dry stacked, requires minimal maintenance.
posted by Mitheral at 4:27 PM on May 27, 2024 [1 favorite]
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So: reindeer game.
posted by pracowity at 4:53 AM on May 26, 2024 [8 favorites]