It's time to change the place names
May 30, 2024 11:21 PM Subscribe
More than a dozen locations bear this racist term and relic of colonial oppression. It's time to change the place names. There is a small sign in Western Victoria — one of 15 locations around the country, from creeks and waterholes to bores and mountains — that is a racist slur in plain sight.
All those advertising images are tough to take in at once. Reminds me of going through my (b. 1910s) Grandma's estate in the 1990s and stumbling across ancient objects and printed material from the Depression featuring Aboriginal children (I won't repeat the language used).
Fifteen locations could all be renamed at once in the blink of an eye. Could be and should be. Two years of waiting from raising the issue until the council gets around to discussing it? It should have been two weeks.
posted by rory at 12:17 AM on May 31 [1 favorite]
Fifteen locations could all be renamed at once in the blink of an eye. Could be and should be. Two years of waiting from raising the issue until the council gets around to discussing it? It should have been two weeks.
posted by rory at 12:17 AM on May 31 [1 favorite]
There is a cheddar cheese in Australia that used to be called a slur until 2021.
While it is a slur that is much more commonly used in the US, and a lot of Australians may not have recognised it as a slur, I was shocked that it took until 2021 to rename the cheese.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 12:32 AM on May 31 [1 favorite]
While it is a slur that is much more commonly used in the US, and a lot of Australians may not have recognised it as a slur, I was shocked that it took until 2021 to rename the cheese.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 12:32 AM on May 31 [1 favorite]
It should have been two weeks.
I really strongly disagree. You've got to bring people with you and that takes time, often a lot of it. If you don't take that time you'll get a nasty backlash that will be at least as much plain human nature as racism.
posted by deadwax at 1:45 AM on May 31 [4 favorites]
I really strongly disagree. You've got to bring people with you and that takes time, often a lot of it. If you don't take that time you'll get a nasty backlash that will be at least as much plain human nature as racism.
posted by deadwax at 1:45 AM on May 31 [4 favorites]
Let them backlash. Let people stand up and identify themselves as the ones who want to maintain historical racist slurs in the names of their local landmarks. It was 2022 when this was raised, not 1952 or 1972 or even 1992. No one was ignorant of the implications or impact of labels like this in 2022.
Put them in a position where they have to actively choose to lobby for the slur. "Hey everyone, this creek that nobody gave a second thought to used to be called Mustons Creek, and we're just reverting to that. Or we could change it to an Aboriginal name, if you like. If you want to argue for keeping the racist name, we've set up a special meeting where you can do so at 3.13 a.m. on 16 June 2026. On Zoom."
posted by rory at 3:05 AM on May 31 [6 favorites]
Put them in a position where they have to actively choose to lobby for the slur. "Hey everyone, this creek that nobody gave a second thought to used to be called Mustons Creek, and we're just reverting to that. Or we could change it to an Aboriginal name, if you like. If you want to argue for keeping the racist name, we've set up a special meeting where you can do so at 3.13 a.m. on 16 June 2026. On Zoom."
posted by rory at 3:05 AM on May 31 [6 favorites]
a lot of Australians may not have recognised it as a slur
We absolutely did, though—at least by the 1980s, when all of this stuff was being more openly discussed. "Oh, but it's just coincidentally racist! The cheesemaker who came up with it was Edward William Coon." Tough luck, Ed. Go and sit in the corner next to Thomas Crapper.
I'd have said that the word was more current in Oz than in the US; I certainly heard it used by racist pricks in the 1980s. Having that brandname on the shelves was an embarrassment. Sure, we were all used to seeing it in the cheese section of the supermarket; it had always been there. But what a liability for their marketers. "It's Cheese! Regular Cheese! But With an Unpleasant Name!"
posted by rory at 3:16 AM on May 31 [1 favorite]
We absolutely did, though—at least by the 1980s, when all of this stuff was being more openly discussed. "Oh, but it's just coincidentally racist! The cheesemaker who came up with it was Edward William Coon." Tough luck, Ed. Go and sit in the corner next to Thomas Crapper.
I'd have said that the word was more current in Oz than in the US; I certainly heard it used by racist pricks in the 1980s. Having that brandname on the shelves was an embarrassment. Sure, we were all used to seeing it in the cheese section of the supermarket; it had always been there. But what a liability for their marketers. "It's Cheese! Regular Cheese! But With an Unpleasant Name!"
posted by rory at 3:16 AM on May 31 [1 favorite]
I'd have said that the word was more current in Oz than in the US; I certainly heard it used by racist pricks in the 1980s.
Was coming to say the same thing… (though I only know USA from media, of course).
posted by pompomtom at 3:22 AM on May 31
Was coming to say the same thing… (though I only know USA from media, of course).
posted by pompomtom at 3:22 AM on May 31
Fortunately "let them backlash" is still a reasonable recipe for losing office in this country.
posted by deadwax at 3:25 AM on May 31
posted by deadwax at 3:25 AM on May 31
You've got to bring people with you and that takes time, often a lot of it.
Also, the point is to do this all at once: don't let every two-bit council have a protracted debate about it, deal with it all at once at state level (it wouldn't be a federal area). Do what Queensland did. I mean, look at this shit. In 2017? Seriously? That's a generation late. There's no excuse.
And that goes for transplanted South African racist terms too. Tough luck, local whingers.
posted by rory at 3:26 AM on May 31 [2 favorites]
Also, the point is to do this all at once: don't let every two-bit council have a protracted debate about it, deal with it all at once at state level (it wouldn't be a federal area). Do what Queensland did. I mean, look at this shit. In 2017? Seriously? That's a generation late. There's no excuse.
And that goes for transplanted South African racist terms too. Tough luck, local whingers.
posted by rory at 3:26 AM on May 31 [2 favorites]
They still haven't finished renaming the football ovals etc named after Edwin Brown.
Edwin Brown was a white Australian rugby league player who played in the 1910s and 1920s.
Unfortunately, he was given the nickname "N-word Brown", either because he was unusually pale, or because of the name of the colour of Kiwi shoe polish that he used on his shoes,
and so now there are all these public parks etc in Australia which have giant signs saying "Edwin N-word Brown Oval" out the front. (Except, of course, it's the slur in full.)
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 5:01 AM on May 31
Edwin Brown was a white Australian rugby league player who played in the 1910s and 1920s.
Unfortunately, he was given the nickname "N-word Brown", either because he was unusually pale, or because of the name of the colour of Kiwi shoe polish that he used on his shoes,
and so now there are all these public parks etc in Australia which have giant signs saying "Edwin N-word Brown Oval" out the front. (Except, of course, it's the slur in full.)
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 5:01 AM on May 31
either because he was unusually pale, or because of the name of the colour of Kiwi shoe polish that he used on his shoes,
These are wrong. Edwin Brown’s racist epithet is almost certainly based on his surname, part of the traditional adjective style nicknames: ‘Chalky’ or ‘Snowy’ White, ‘Dusty’ Miller, etc.
posted by zamboni at 6:46 AM on May 31
These are wrong. Edwin Brown’s racist epithet is almost certainly based on his surname, part of the traditional adjective style nicknames: ‘Chalky’ or ‘Snowy’ White, ‘Dusty’ Miller, etc.
posted by zamboni at 6:46 AM on May 31
There is a cheddar cheese in Australia that used to be called a slur until 2021.
While it is a slur that is much more commonly used in the US, and a lot of Australians may not have recognised it as a slur, I was shocked that it took until 2021 to rename the cheese.
As an American expat to AUS a dozen plus years ago, that brand really took me aback first time I saw it.
I did giggle a little that they didn't steer into the standard Aussie translation for "sharp" and "extra sharp" cheddars, as they did seem to think through the consequences of trying to sell the slur-that's-also-short-for-an-american-rodent cheese as Extra Bitey. Went with "tasty/extra tasty" instead. Way less fun.
posted by GamblingBlues at 6:47 AM on May 31
While it is a slur that is much more commonly used in the US, and a lot of Australians may not have recognised it as a slur, I was shocked that it took until 2021 to rename the cheese.
As an American expat to AUS a dozen plus years ago, that brand really took me aback first time I saw it.
I did giggle a little that they didn't steer into the standard Aussie translation for "sharp" and "extra sharp" cheddars, as they did seem to think through the consequences of trying to sell the slur-that's-also-short-for-an-american-rodent cheese as Extra Bitey. Went with "tasty/extra tasty" instead. Way less fun.
posted by GamblingBlues at 6:47 AM on May 31
Mod note: One comment removed. The main link is centered around Australia, so let's making comments that are centered around American issues, thanks!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:48 AM on May 31 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:48 AM on May 31 [2 favorites]
If you want to argue for keeping the racist name, we've set up a special meeting where you can do so at 3.13 a.m. on 16 June 2026. On Zoom.
Let's make that on Google Hangouts.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 9:14 AM on May 31
Let's make that on Google Hangouts.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 9:14 AM on May 31
One major change after reading quite a few Indigenous scholars is I have now begun writing it out as "the continent called Australia" because its not their name for Country and it still does not belong to the settlers.
I highly recommend Sand Talk by Tyson Yunkaporta. Its available online as a ePub as well in print. I did enjoy the print version from the library. Here's a student I advised on her thesis who used Yunkaporta's Indigenous ways of thinking as an analytical framework to show the presence of an Indigenous Knowledge System on the slopes of an active volcano inhabited for tens of thousands of years on Java.
AMA, because adopting an Indigenous Research Paradigm (Chilisa 2019) has been heart changingly transformative for me in my doctoral journey.
Go on, ask me for a technical FPP on building bridges across knowledge system for a more holistic life centered view of our shared planetary home
:D
posted by infini at 11:17 AM on May 31 [3 favorites]
I highly recommend Sand Talk by Tyson Yunkaporta. Its available online as a ePub as well in print. I did enjoy the print version from the library. Here's a student I advised on her thesis who used Yunkaporta's Indigenous ways of thinking as an analytical framework to show the presence of an Indigenous Knowledge System on the slopes of an active volcano inhabited for tens of thousands of years on Java.
AMA, because adopting an Indigenous Research Paradigm (Chilisa 2019) has been heart changingly transformative for me in my doctoral journey.
Go on, ask me for a technical FPP on building bridges across knowledge system for a more holistic life centered view of our shared planetary home
:D
posted by infini at 11:17 AM on May 31 [3 favorites]
I have now begun writing it out as "the continent called Australia" because its not their name for Country and it still does not belong to the settlers.
I would say that's conflating two Australias. The country, the Westphalian state known as the Commonwealth of Australia, which didn't exist before 1 January 1901, is the European-inspired creation of settlers, and that's it's name—"Australia", for short. But the continent, the land, the Country in the indigenous sense, has been known to Aboriginal Australians for tens of thousands of years, and their name(s) should really take priority over the various labels of latterday explorers and cartographers. Like for Aotearoa/New Zealand next door (although in full that's Aotearoa me Te Waipounamu, the North Island and the South Island).
Then there's Turtle Island...
posted by rory at 1:21 PM on May 31 [1 favorite]
I would say that's conflating two Australias. The country, the Westphalian state known as the Commonwealth of Australia, which didn't exist before 1 January 1901, is the European-inspired creation of settlers, and that's it's name—"Australia", for short. But the continent, the land, the Country in the indigenous sense, has been known to Aboriginal Australians for tens of thousands of years, and their name(s) should really take priority over the various labels of latterday explorers and cartographers. Like for Aotearoa/New Zealand next door (although in full that's Aotearoa me Te Waipounamu, the North Island and the South Island).
Then there's Turtle Island...
posted by rory at 1:21 PM on May 31 [1 favorite]
I use the phrase Aboriginal scholars do, rory.
posted by infini at 1:22 PM on May 31 [1 favorite]
posted by infini at 1:22 PM on May 31 [1 favorite]
I don't have a problem with the logic of "the continent called Australia", but it would be less cumbersome if it had an indigenous name, the way my home town is now "nipaluna/Hobart" in recognition of the indigenous name of the place before the settler city existed.
But a state is an idea, a system, not a physical place. Most of Europe—the place—has belonged to different countries at different points in history. The places are the same, but the states and systems occupying them change.
posted by rory at 1:28 PM on May 31
But a state is an idea, a system, not a physical place. Most of Europe—the place—has belonged to different countries at different points in history. The places are the same, but the states and systems occupying them change.
posted by rory at 1:28 PM on May 31
Isn't Country their word for it (in 'English' and with original words in each of the original languages)?
Continents, unlike countries, tend to have multiple names as given by all the various language groups and peoples inhabiting them.
posted by infini at 1:33 PM on May 31 [1 favorite]
Continents, unlike countries, tend to have multiple names as given by all the various language groups and peoples inhabiting them.
posted by infini at 1:33 PM on May 31 [1 favorite]
Can't see that flying with the 200-odd other countries. Still, the US has managed to stake a claim in English to "the West" and "the South" for geographical areas in North America, so who knows. (Although to English-speakers in Scotland, "the South" implies something else.)
(Why did you put English in inverted commas, by the way? That's the actual name of English in English.)
Feels like this is wandering a bit from the starting place of the thread, though, which is that maintaining racist slurs in place names is indefensible. NSW stuck a z in the middle of Kosciuszko in 1997 to better reflect the Polish guy the mountain was named after, but they didn't get around to these two placenames in the Hunter for another twenty-five years. (And they didn't even have the excuse of the cheese.)
posted by rory at 1:58 PM on May 31
(Why did you put English in inverted commas, by the way? That's the actual name of English in English.)
Feels like this is wandering a bit from the starting place of the thread, though, which is that maintaining racist slurs in place names is indefensible. NSW stuck a z in the middle of Kosciuszko in 1997 to better reflect the Polish guy the mountain was named after, but they didn't get around to these two placenames in the Hunter for another twenty-five years. (And they didn't even have the excuse of the cheese.)
posted by rory at 1:58 PM on May 31
Standard Australian English (AusE) is the language used in law, media, politics, and education in Australia, holding vast power. Over the years, many Indigenous people have been forced to speak AusE at the expense of ancestral language, Kriol, or Aboriginal English (AbE). Language bias, although largely implicit, is just as powerful and forces Aboriginal people to navigate linguistic imperialism daily.
posted by infini at 2:12 PM on May 31
posted by infini at 2:12 PM on May 31
Why is the US consistently being referenced here, after the mod note above?
posted by infini at 2:13 PM on May 31
posted by infini at 2:13 PM on May 31
FWOOO. Thank you for sharing, chariot pulled by cassowaries!
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 3:18 PM on May 31
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 3:18 PM on May 31
Why is the US consistently being referenced here, after the mod note above?
My reference to "the West" and "the South" was to how those parts of the world have dominated those generic geographical terms in English speakers' everyday understanding of them. That they happen to be in the US reflects its prominence in the English-speaking world, that's all. It was in response to the idea of Australia being relabelled "Country" for a wider English-speaking audience.
As for AusE and AbE, no problem with any of that. If you'd written "in Aboriginal English" I wouldn't have blinked an eye. The quotes just made it look as if you were saying that Aboriginal English was somehow illegitimate, which I was sure you wouldn't think, so I wondered if I'd missed something.
posted by rory at 12:01 AM on June 1
My reference to "the West" and "the South" was to how those parts of the world have dominated those generic geographical terms in English speakers' everyday understanding of them. That they happen to be in the US reflects its prominence in the English-speaking world, that's all. It was in response to the idea of Australia being relabelled "Country" for a wider English-speaking audience.
As for AusE and AbE, no problem with any of that. If you'd written "in Aboriginal English" I wouldn't have blinked an eye. The quotes just made it look as if you were saying that Aboriginal English was somehow illegitimate, which I was sure you wouldn't think, so I wondered if I'd missed something.
posted by rory at 12:01 AM on June 1
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