"We Have Normalised Horror."
June 7, 2024 10:51 AM Subscribe
Guardian: Mass casualty incidents caused by the Israeli military offensive in southern Gaza are becoming normalised in the west and leading to a sense of fatalism inside Gaza itself, according to Sam Rose, the director of planning for the Palestinian relief agency UNRWA (after its school in Nuseirat was bombed by Israeli forces) || Democracy Now: “Apocalyptic”: 40 Killed in Israeli Airstrike on U.N. School Sheltering Displaced Palestinians in Gaza || BBC: US urges Israel to be transparent over Gaza school strike || Sky News UK: Experts told Sky News the [bomb] fragment [at Gaza school strike] can be identified as part of an American-made GBU-39 bomb; NPR: Israel used a U.S.-made bomb in a deadly U.N. school strike in Gaza [ground reporting that concurs] || MEMO (reporting of a Yedioth Ahronoth article): UN adds Israel to blacklist for harming children in conflict zones || ICYMI: Aharon Barak steps down as Israel's nominated judge to the ICJ case; Israel's Attorney-General urges Netanyahu to form commission of inquiry to provide legal cover from international judicial investigations such as through the ICC; Which ten countries have joined South Africa’s case against Israel at the ICJ?
This is the fresh thread for the coverage of the violence in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. The previous thread (worth a check of the last 50 comments or so for there continues to be fresh news).
This is the fresh thread for the coverage of the violence in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. The previous thread (worth a check of the last 50 comments or so for there continues to be fresh news).
News are coming out (eg this tweet from Hossam Shabat) of fresh mass graves found now that the IDF retreated from Jabaliya ("the decomposed bodies were found when stray dogs started picking up the remains."), reminds me, this came out and kinda got overlooked in the daily horror: (BBC) Mass graves and body bags: al-Shifa hospital after Israel withdrew its forces - only posted 3 days ago.
Even more (slightly) belated, Isaac Chotiner's interview with Ofer Shelah, a military analyst and onetime member of the Knesset: What Israel’s Leaders Can’t—or Won’t—Say About Biden’s Ceasefire Announcement. I think at some point, as I sleep, Benny Gantz will be announcing that he's pulling out of the government coalition.
Q: How would you characterize those differences with Netanyahu right now? What is Gantz’s criticism, and what message is he telling the Israeli public about his problems with Netanyahu’s government?
A: I dare say that his criticism is a little—I don’t know—convoluted? But, with your permission, I’d like to speak about the situation as it is. We’ve reached the crossroads. Since December, especially since the end of January, when the biggest part of the military operation ended and some reserves were being sent home, it was obvious that there were two paths for Israel. One is what the Biden Administration is suggesting, and that is creating a diplomatic framework for not only the future of Gaza but the future of the Middle East, creating a coalition, a partnership with Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Jordan, Egypt, which would entail some kind of defense agreement between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel, and actually create a counterweight to Iran. If you want to create some kind of alternative to Hamas, any kind of regime or any kind of entity leading civilian life in the Gaza Strip, you need that.
On the other hand, there’s a road that leads us to—and nobody will say it explicitly, not Netanyahu, maybe the extreme right-wing of this government, maybe [Bezalel] Smotrich and [Itamar] Ben-Gvir, but Netanyahu won’t say it out loud—the de-facto Israeli occupation of Gaza. Gantz understands this. Eisenkot definitely understands this.
Netanyahu wants Israel to achieve normalization with Saudi Arabia, but he’s not ready to even utter the words “Palestinian Authority” or “two-state solution,” even as some kind of remote goal that will not happen now. Why Netanyahu does not do that has to do with his own political survival.
There's more in there, so here's an ungated copy.
posted by cendawanita at 11:20 AM on June 7 [15 favorites]
Even more (slightly) belated, Isaac Chotiner's interview with Ofer Shelah, a military analyst and onetime member of the Knesset: What Israel’s Leaders Can’t—or Won’t—Say About Biden’s Ceasefire Announcement. I think at some point, as I sleep, Benny Gantz will be announcing that he's pulling out of the government coalition.
Q: How would you characterize those differences with Netanyahu right now? What is Gantz’s criticism, and what message is he telling the Israeli public about his problems with Netanyahu’s government?
A: I dare say that his criticism is a little—I don’t know—convoluted? But, with your permission, I’d like to speak about the situation as it is. We’ve reached the crossroads. Since December, especially since the end of January, when the biggest part of the military operation ended and some reserves were being sent home, it was obvious that there were two paths for Israel. One is what the Biden Administration is suggesting, and that is creating a diplomatic framework for not only the future of Gaza but the future of the Middle East, creating a coalition, a partnership with Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Jordan, Egypt, which would entail some kind of defense agreement between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel, and actually create a counterweight to Iran. If you want to create some kind of alternative to Hamas, any kind of regime or any kind of entity leading civilian life in the Gaza Strip, you need that.
On the other hand, there’s a road that leads us to—and nobody will say it explicitly, not Netanyahu, maybe the extreme right-wing of this government, maybe [Bezalel] Smotrich and [Itamar] Ben-Gvir, but Netanyahu won’t say it out loud—the de-facto Israeli occupation of Gaza. Gantz understands this. Eisenkot definitely understands this.
Netanyahu wants Israel to achieve normalization with Saudi Arabia, but he’s not ready to even utter the words “Palestinian Authority” or “two-state solution,” even as some kind of remote goal that will not happen now. Why Netanyahu does not do that has to do with his own political survival.
There's more in there, so here's an ungated copy.
posted by cendawanita at 11:20 AM on June 7 [15 favorites]
There's a series of comments starting here linking to reporting on vile sexual abuse of prisoners by Israel, as well, which is worth being aware of if you can stomach it.
posted by sagc at 11:34 AM on June 7 [7 favorites]
posted by sagc at 11:34 AM on June 7 [7 favorites]
Thanks cendawanita: you are, other than morning al-Jazeera, my primary source of news about Gaza right now.
posted by corb at 11:39 AM on June 7 [13 favorites]
posted by corb at 11:39 AM on June 7 [13 favorites]
Here's some additional reporting from the PBS NewsHour:
Thursday "Dozens Killed in Israeli Strike on UN School Building." 5 minute video with some graphic injuries.
May 31st "Deadly Attacks on Tent Camp in Rafah." A 26-minute summary video of the week's reporting with multiple perspectives and primary sources.
posted by JDC8 at 12:17 PM on June 7 [4 favorites]
Thursday "Dozens Killed in Israeli Strike on UN School Building." 5 minute video with some graphic injuries.
May 31st "Deadly Attacks on Tent Camp in Rafah." A 26-minute summary video of the week's reporting with multiple perspectives and primary sources.
posted by JDC8 at 12:17 PM on June 7 [4 favorites]
We hash this out in every single Gaza and Biden thread. While I’m in the vote-for-Biden-because-Trump-is-worse camp, I just cannot fault those who refuse to vote for Biden. Because Biden is the one person outside of Israel who could stop this genocide, and he hasn’t. It is unconscionable to vote for him and it is unconscionable to not vote for him and we are only left with this cursed choice.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 12:55 PM on June 7 [39 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 12:55 PM on June 7 [39 favorites]
This is from 2014. It ought to be stickied at the top of every thread on Palestine, because it still applies:
Israel's style of public relationsposted by i like crows very much at 1:14 PM on June 7 [41 favorites]
SIR – A quick guide to Israel's PR methods:Test this against the next interview you hear or watch.
- We haven't heard reports of deaths, will check into it;
- The people were killed, but by a faulty Palestinian rocket/bomb;
- OK we killed them, but they were terrorists;
- OK they were civilians, but they were being used as human shields;
- OK there were no fighters in the area, so it was our mistake. But we kill civilians by accident, they do it on purpose;
- OK we kill far more civilians than they do, but look at how terrible other countries are!
- Why are you still talking about Israel? Are you some kind of anti-semite?
Adam Johannes, Secretary, Cardiff Stop the War Coalition
This post is pretty distinctly focused on what's actually going on in the area. The most the US is mentioned is in our bombs being identified as being used in an airstrike against a school.
Can we *please* stop dragging every thread back to US electoral politics? There's a lot of high-quality links & subjects-within-subjects here. It doesn't have to be about us/US every single thread.
posted by CrystalDave at 1:40 PM on June 7 [40 favorites]
Can we *please* stop dragging every thread back to US electoral politics? There's a lot of high-quality links & subjects-within-subjects here. It doesn't have to be about us/US every single thread.
posted by CrystalDave at 1:40 PM on June 7 [40 favorites]
CIA assessment concludes Netanyahu is likely to defy US pressure to set a post-war plan for Gaza
A CIA assessment circulated among US officials this week concluded that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu likely judges he can get away without defining a post-war plan — even as the Biden administration has launched a full-court press to pressure him to bring an end to the conflict in Gaza.posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 1:50 PM on June 7 [8 favorites]
Netanyahu “probably believes he can maintain support from his security chiefs and prevent defections” from the right wing of his coalition by discussing the future of Gaza in “vague terms,” the June 3 report, reviewed by CNN, reads.
The assessment — which has not been previously reported — represents one of the most up to date intelligence assessments about Netanyahu’s mindset that has been circulated among senior US officials, according to a source familiar with internal reporting.
It comes amid a clear shift in how the Biden administration views Israel: less as a trusted partner and more as an unpredictable foreign government to be analyzed and understood.
The CIA declined to comment when asked about CNN’s reporting.
Yes, i was also contemplating making an FPP about student (and other) protests in the US and elsewhere, to continue the now-closed one from last month. That might be an appropriate place for US electoral politics discussion. This is not. It's a thread about Palestine.
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:50 PM on June 7 [8 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:50 PM on June 7 [8 favorites]
I have a very strong opinion on the matter of whether or not one should withhold their vote from Biden to help innocent Palestinians, but I think the people who say we should and the people who say we shouldn't have both made their goddamn points already. I think even the people I agree with are doing more harm than good for their argument at this point.
posted by Reverend John at 1:51 PM on June 7 [7 favorites]
posted by Reverend John at 1:51 PM on June 7 [7 favorites]
Mod note: Once comment and the derail about Biden and the US Elections deleted. Let's not recenter the issue around the US and avoid turning this thread into a 1-on-1 discussion.
posted by loup (staff) at 1:54 PM on June 7 [2 favorites]
posted by loup (staff) at 1:54 PM on June 7 [2 favorites]
I think at some point, as I sleep, Benny Gantz will be announcing that he's pulling out of the government coalition.
Haaretz seems to think so too.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 1:55 PM on June 7 [1 favorite]
Haaretz seems to think so too.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 1:55 PM on June 7 [1 favorite]
Any discussion on what their going to do to the tunnels from Raffa to Egypt?
posted by sammyo at 2:15 PM on June 7 [1 favorite]
posted by sammyo at 2:15 PM on June 7 [1 favorite]
.
posted by limeonaire at 3:39 PM on June 7
posted by limeonaire at 3:39 PM on June 7
Any discussion on what their going to do to the tunnels from Raffa to Egypt?
I mean, there are tunnels because Gaza has been blockaded and deliberately kept in a state of calorie deficit by Israel for nearly two decades. So the logical thing to do would be to end the blockade, at which point the tunnels would be unnecessary?
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:01 PM on June 7 [10 favorites]
I mean, there are tunnels because Gaza has been blockaded and deliberately kept in a state of calorie deficit by Israel for nearly two decades. So the logical thing to do would be to end the blockade, at which point the tunnels would be unnecessary?
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:01 PM on June 7 [10 favorites]
What are the implications if Qatar follows through on its threat to kick the Hamas political leadership out if they don't agree to the proposed ceasefire? The political implications I mean, I know there are personal implications for the guys who get kicked out.
posted by Justinian at 4:54 PM on June 7 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 4:54 PM on June 7 [1 favorite]
The established Western/international order set is really keen to press Hamas *and* present the current ceasefire terms as an issue where they are the ones saying no - but it's not yet a serious threat since there's really no leverage insofar that it's as much as modern Israel that's also rejecting the offer that's being presented as theirs. Even in the Chotiner interview - even for someone who's critical of Netanyahu, the interview ended at a place where the guy is saying, to paraphrase, a kindergarten is an acceptable target for a strike. Even if no Hamas has struck from there, just a suspicion of one.
Plus, the same international order is also blaming Palestinian Authority as being corrupt (=undeserving of rule), per this Barak Ravid gossip girl bit from yesterday ("Emirati-Palestinian shouting match blew up Blinken meeting"). So what's the picture being painted here?
posted by cendawanita at 6:36 PM on June 7 [8 favorites]
Plus, the same international order is also blaming Palestinian Authority as being corrupt (=undeserving of rule), per this Barak Ravid gossip girl bit from yesterday ("Emirati-Palestinian shouting match blew up Blinken meeting"). So what's the picture being painted here?
posted by cendawanita at 6:36 PM on June 7 [8 favorites]
“Gaza Has Exposed Journalistic and Academic ‘Neutrality’ as the Conservative Deflection It Always Was,” Adam Johnson , In These Times, 03 June 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 8:20 PM on June 7 [17 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 8:20 PM on June 7 [17 favorites]
This is a post I wrote for the Crooked Media subscriber Discord before I learned about their character limits. None of this will ever happen, but since I'm a non-aligned (in all ways), justice-loving person on the spectrum, this is what I'm thinking when I think "where does Israel need to be for me to support it?":
I think 90% of the discussions online, in the media, and in government are missing the forest for the trees. There's a lot of debate about who bombed what, "rewarding terrorism", and who started what. Hamas and the Israeli government share the blame for getting us to this unhappy place. Hamas' 10/7 attack was brutal and unjustified, but Israel has been humiliating Palestinians for decades and claiming to want peace while using their military power and relationship with the U.S. to gradually increase their ownership of land and position out of fundamentalism, fear, and pure greed. If you look at the 1947 distribution of population (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Palestine_Distribution_of_Population_1947_UN_map_no_93%28b%29.jpeg) and land (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#/media/File:Palestine_Land_ownership_by_sub-district_(1945).jpg), it's obvious that "Arabs" have a much greater right to the territory. Even though done with good intentions after WW II and the Holocaust, the truth is that modern Israel was imposed by colonialist and imperialist powers against the wishes of regional neighbors. Even then, "Zionists launched an intense White House lobby to have the UNSCOP plan endorsed, and the effects were not trivial.[92] The Democratic Party, a large part of whose contributions came from Jews,[93] informed Truman that failure to live up to promises to support the Jews in Palestine would constitute a danger to the party. The defection of Jewish votes in congressional elections in 1946 had contributed to electoral losses. Truman was, according to Roger Cohen, embittered by feelings of being a hostage to the lobby and its 'unwarranted interference', which he blamed for the contemporary impasse" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine).
Everything after that - the wars, the Jewish and Arab paramilitary murders of civilians, Hamas, Hezbollah, the stupid wall - is just fallout. Of course, people born in Israel or Palestine in the past couple of generations didn't ask to be be part of this mess, and it's too late to go back. Because Israel has all the power here, the best solution (which of course will never be tried) would be for Israel to: unilaterally offer a huge amount of land back to Palestine, including desirable land with coastline, resources, etc.; unilaterally offer to withdraw completely from the West Bank, halt settlements, and place current settlements under future Palestinian rule; accept Palestine as a country; agree to international control of holy sites and East Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital; condition this on acceptance by all Arab nations of Israel's right to exist and a plan to jointly fight terrorism in the region; invite Iran and others to a series of talks to agree on a transition plan contingent on a transitional Palestinian government, with elections to follow; cease all backroom conniving with the US to subvert the regional order, and leave the US out of the talks; and finally, publicly speak about the history and the tragedies that have befallen both sides. Include plenty of references to "Palestinian brothers and sisters" and "shared values".
In my own life and work, conflicts have only been resolved out of generosity and humility. If you fight and push, you never run out of things to fight and push against. It's not worth it. I don't think the U.S. should be supporting Israel at all right now; damn the political cost. Not only is our interference morally unjust, but we're making enemies and tarnishing our reputation with most of the rest of the world. If Israel insists on escalation and bellicosity and that results in greater involvement from Hezbollah (a horrible group; just ask my Druze friend) or Iran, we should stay completely uninvolved and punt to the UN. It's not our fight.
posted by caviar2d2 at 7:04 AM on June 8 [8 favorites]
I think 90% of the discussions online, in the media, and in government are missing the forest for the trees. There's a lot of debate about who bombed what, "rewarding terrorism", and who started what. Hamas and the Israeli government share the blame for getting us to this unhappy place. Hamas' 10/7 attack was brutal and unjustified, but Israel has been humiliating Palestinians for decades and claiming to want peace while using their military power and relationship with the U.S. to gradually increase their ownership of land and position out of fundamentalism, fear, and pure greed. If you look at the 1947 distribution of population (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Palestine_Distribution_of_Population_1947_UN_map_no_93%28b%29.jpeg) and land (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#/media/File:Palestine_Land_ownership_by_sub-district_(1945).jpg), it's obvious that "Arabs" have a much greater right to the territory. Even though done with good intentions after WW II and the Holocaust, the truth is that modern Israel was imposed by colonialist and imperialist powers against the wishes of regional neighbors. Even then, "Zionists launched an intense White House lobby to have the UNSCOP plan endorsed, and the effects were not trivial.[92] The Democratic Party, a large part of whose contributions came from Jews,[93] informed Truman that failure to live up to promises to support the Jews in Palestine would constitute a danger to the party. The defection of Jewish votes in congressional elections in 1946 had contributed to electoral losses. Truman was, according to Roger Cohen, embittered by feelings of being a hostage to the lobby and its 'unwarranted interference', which he blamed for the contemporary impasse" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine).
.jpg){kind=link}
Everything after that - the wars, the Jewish and Arab paramilitary murders of civilians, Hamas, Hezbollah, the stupid wall - is just fallout. Of course, people born in Israel or Palestine in the past couple of generations didn't ask to be be part of this mess, and it's too late to go back. Because Israel has all the power here, the best solution (which of course will never be tried) would be for Israel to: unilaterally offer a huge amount of land back to Palestine, including desirable land with coastline, resources, etc.; unilaterally offer to withdraw completely from the West Bank, halt settlements, and place current settlements under future Palestinian rule; accept Palestine as a country; agree to international control of holy sites and East Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital; condition this on acceptance by all Arab nations of Israel's right to exist and a plan to jointly fight terrorism in the region; invite Iran and others to a series of talks to agree on a transition plan contingent on a transitional Palestinian government, with elections to follow; cease all backroom conniving with the US to subvert the regional order, and leave the US out of the talks; and finally, publicly speak about the history and the tragedies that have befallen both sides. Include plenty of references to "Palestinian brothers and sisters" and "shared values".
In my own life and work, conflicts have only been resolved out of generosity and humility. If you fight and push, you never run out of things to fight and push against. It's not worth it. I don't think the U.S. should be supporting Israel at all right now; damn the political cost. Not only is our interference morally unjust, but we're making enemies and tarnishing our reputation with most of the rest of the world. If Israel insists on escalation and bellicosity and that results in greater involvement from Hezbollah (a horrible group; just ask my Druze friend) or Iran, we should stay completely uninvolved and punt to the UN. It's not our fight.
posted by caviar2d2 at 7:04 AM on June 8 [8 favorites]
Explainer-Is the Hezbollah-Israel conflict about to spiral? - "Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Wednesday Israel was prepared for strong action in the north. He warned in December that Beirut would be turned 'into Gaza' if Hezbollah started an all-out war." (War with Israel would deepen Lebanon's myriad crises, Biden officials warn Israel "limited war" with Lebanon may draw Iran to intervene, Putin warns Russia could arm enemies of Western nations supplying weapons to Ukraine)
Diminished Hamas Switches to Full Insurgent Mode in Gaza - "Netanyahu has defied domestic and international calls to outline a post-war plan for the territory."
-Biden Denies Netanyahu Playing Politics in War After Hinting It
-Netanyahu is a disaster for Israel (he's lost ari emmanuel fwiw)
posted by kliuless at 8:42 AM on June 8 [5 favorites]
Diminished Hamas Switches to Full Insurgent Mode in Gaza - "Netanyahu has defied domestic and international calls to outline a post-war plan for the territory."
Washington and its Arab allies have said they are working on a post-conflict plan for Gaza which involves a time-bound, irreversible path to Palestinian statehood.-Biden says Netanyahu could be prolonging Gaza war for political aims
When the plan, part of a "grand bargain" envisioned by the United States that aims to secure a normalizing of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel, is complete, Washington aims to put it to Israel, the U.S. officials said.
A United Arab Emirates official with direct knowledge of the discussions said a Palestinian invitation was needed for countries to assist Gaza in an emergency operation, as well as an end to hostilities, full Israeli disengagement, and clarity on Gaza's legal status, including control of borders.
The emergency process could last a year and be potentially renewable for another year, according to the UAE official who said the aim to be to stabilize the enclave rather than rebuild it.
For reconstruction to begin, a more detailed roadmap towards a two-state solution was needed, he added, as well as serious and credible reform of the Palestinian Authority.
How the United States aims to overcome Netanyahu's repeated rejection of a two-state solution, which Riyadh says is a condition to normalizing ties, is unclear.
David Schenker, a former U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs, dismissed any suggestion of a clean IDF pullout from the Palestinian territory.
"Israel says it's going to maintain security control which means that it's going to constantly fly drones over Gaza and they're not going to be limited if they see Hamas re-emerging, they're going to go back," said Schenker, a senior fellow at the Washington Institute U.S.-based think-tank.
Gadi Eisenkot, a former Israeli military chief serving in Netanyahu's war cabinet, has proposed an Egyptian-led international coalition as an alternative to Hamas rule in Gaza.
-Biden Denies Netanyahu Playing Politics in War After Hinting It
-Netanyahu is a disaster for Israel (he's lost ari emmanuel fwiw)
posted by kliuless at 8:42 AM on June 8 [5 favorites]
Israel rescues four hostages in Gaza, as airstrikes nearby kill 93 Palestinians - The Guardian
posted by lalochezia at 9:25 AM on June 8 [1 favorite]
posted by lalochezia at 9:25 AM on June 8 [1 favorite]
The thing that has never changed since 10/7 is that Israel -- not just Netanyahu, everyone -- can never accept a post-war plan for Gaza that would permit Hamas to use it as a base for 10/7 style attacks.
Hamas's bosses in their air conditioned lairs in the Gulf know this perfectly well, but are cynically motivated to sacrifice Gazan civilian lies in denial of it. Israel can't do anything to stop this - it's much more about the Gulf royals deciding to turn a page.
Western progressives supporting solutions that would permit Hamas to return with offensive capability have just been wasting their time.
posted by MattD at 9:58 AM on June 8 [1 favorite]
Hamas's bosses in their air conditioned lairs in the Gulf know this perfectly well, but are cynically motivated to sacrifice Gazan civilian lies in denial of it. Israel can't do anything to stop this - it's much more about the Gulf royals deciding to turn a page.
Western progressives supporting solutions that would permit Hamas to return with offensive capability have just been wasting their time.
posted by MattD at 9:58 AM on June 8 [1 favorite]
Israel can't do anything to stop this
Of course not! Just a natural thing like gravity. The lives are just "sacrificed". No culpability at all. The bombs and bullets and blockades just appear. Beautiful exonerative tense!
Here's an exercise in "solutions" since you like abstractions.
Visualize an Israeli murdered by Hamas; perhaps in a small playground. Now look next to that body - visualize the entire playground full of Palestinians - at a current, very conservative count somewhere between 35-60 men, women and children, murdered by the IDF - every other day, a new one is added to the heaving pile of corpses. In addition, surrounding the playground, have about 1,000 slowly starving homeless refugees - every few days, one of them dies too. The rates of starving to death will increase soon.
I want you to ask "in what moral code should I laud the murder of between 35-60 people, and the starvation of 1000 people in response to the murder of one. Who is doing the greater evil here?"
Now make 1200 other playgrounds undergoing the same process in your mind.
That's what your seemingly anodyne call actively supports; by prioritizing the destruction of Hamas at any cost, you support genocide.
posted by lalochezia at 10:34 AM on June 8 [24 favorites]
Of course not! Just a natural thing like gravity. The lives are just "sacrificed". No culpability at all. The bombs and bullets and blockades just appear. Beautiful exonerative tense!
Here's an exercise in "solutions" since you like abstractions.
Visualize an Israeli murdered by Hamas; perhaps in a small playground. Now look next to that body - visualize the entire playground full of Palestinians - at a current, very conservative count somewhere between 35-60 men, women and children, murdered by the IDF - every other day, a new one is added to the heaving pile of corpses. In addition, surrounding the playground, have about 1,000 slowly starving homeless refugees - every few days, one of them dies too. The rates of starving to death will increase soon.
I want you to ask "in what moral code should I laud the murder of between 35-60 people, and the starvation of 1000 people in response to the murder of one. Who is doing the greater evil here?"
Now make 1200 other playgrounds undergoing the same process in your mind.
That's what your seemingly anodyne call actively supports; by prioritizing the destruction of Hamas at any cost, you support genocide.
posted by lalochezia at 10:34 AM on June 8 [24 favorites]
From Untold stories about occupied Palestine #1 | October 7: Terrorism or National Liberation Movement?:
Jeff Handmaker: In your book, Hamas Contained: The Rise and Pacification of Palestinian Resistance, you carefully Hamas as a multifaceted liberation organization which is rooted in national claims of the Palestinian people. As a close observer, why do you think it is that politicians, media pundits, and even scholars simply refer to Hamas as a terrorist organization?
Tareq Baconi: Thank you, Jeff. Thank you for having me and for hosting this esteemed panel.
Well, I think the answer to the question is quite simple, actually. The designation of Hamas solely as a terrorist organization obfuscates any of its social or political characteristics and allows states to deal with Hamas solely through military means. This is something of course that Israel pushes forward. Rather than engaging with Hamas as an organization that is quite complex, that is an essential part of the Palestinian national movement, that has a very clear political agenda, by designating it a terrorist organization, it then becomes justified in dealing with Hamas solely through the lens of military. To turn something that's political into something that's security.
There are two things that that designation ends up obfuscating. The first is the social infrastructure of Hamas. Hamas is a party that comes out of the Muslim Brotherhood. Before it was established in 1987, the Muslim Brotherhood had engaged in building a vast social infrastructure of charities, healthcare centres, nurseries, schools, and educational centres. That infrastructure still in many ways sustains Hamas's involvement in the community today.
It also obfuscates the fact that since 1987 and since Hamas's emergence as a political and a military party, it has put forward political demands that compel Israel to engage with the core of the Palestinian struggle, which is the right to self-determination, the right of Palestinians to return to homes from which they were expelled in 1948, the end to Israel's settler-colonial regime, apartheid regime, and so on and so forth.
Rather than engaging with political demands that even Hamas leaders argue are more in line with international law than Israeli apartheid leaders, rather than engaging those demands, rather than engaging with them in any kind of serious way, using the designation of terrorism justifies completely ignoring those demands. Just as a major example, in 2017, Hamas put forward their revised charter where it said it is willing to accept the Palestinian state of 67, which is in line with accepting partition of the land of historic Palestine. Rather than engaging with those political demands, which are actually closer to a resolution than any Israeli leader has ever offered the Palestinian people, the demands are completely ignored. And if not ignored, then used as fodder to justify Israeli military campaigns.
We see that most actively in October 7. Rather than engaging with the wider context from which that attack emerged, we see the immediate rhetoric that's coming out as one that's equating Hamas with, let's say, ISIS or Al-Qaeda, and in some ways preemptively preparing the international public, but also the Western public, the Israeli public, to accept any kind of retaliation, to accept any kind of force. Because this is not a rational party that we must engage with, this is a bloodthirsty party that's barbaric, that's committed to the annihilation of the Jewish people. The label of terrorism allows that reframing to happen and removes any kind of political or social context from this and in some ways removes the responsibility of politicians to engage with this issue politically.
posted by i like crows very much at 10:41 AM on June 8 [12 favorites]
Jeff Handmaker: In your book, Hamas Contained: The Rise and Pacification of Palestinian Resistance, you carefully Hamas as a multifaceted liberation organization which is rooted in national claims of the Palestinian people. As a close observer, why do you think it is that politicians, media pundits, and even scholars simply refer to Hamas as a terrorist organization?
Tareq Baconi: Thank you, Jeff. Thank you for having me and for hosting this esteemed panel.
Well, I think the answer to the question is quite simple, actually. The designation of Hamas solely as a terrorist organization obfuscates any of its social or political characteristics and allows states to deal with Hamas solely through military means. This is something of course that Israel pushes forward. Rather than engaging with Hamas as an organization that is quite complex, that is an essential part of the Palestinian national movement, that has a very clear political agenda, by designating it a terrorist organization, it then becomes justified in dealing with Hamas solely through the lens of military. To turn something that's political into something that's security.
There are two things that that designation ends up obfuscating. The first is the social infrastructure of Hamas. Hamas is a party that comes out of the Muslim Brotherhood. Before it was established in 1987, the Muslim Brotherhood had engaged in building a vast social infrastructure of charities, healthcare centres, nurseries, schools, and educational centres. That infrastructure still in many ways sustains Hamas's involvement in the community today.
It also obfuscates the fact that since 1987 and since Hamas's emergence as a political and a military party, it has put forward political demands that compel Israel to engage with the core of the Palestinian struggle, which is the right to self-determination, the right of Palestinians to return to homes from which they were expelled in 1948, the end to Israel's settler-colonial regime, apartheid regime, and so on and so forth.
Rather than engaging with political demands that even Hamas leaders argue are more in line with international law than Israeli apartheid leaders, rather than engaging those demands, rather than engaging with them in any kind of serious way, using the designation of terrorism justifies completely ignoring those demands. Just as a major example, in 2017, Hamas put forward their revised charter where it said it is willing to accept the Palestinian state of 67, which is in line with accepting partition of the land of historic Palestine. Rather than engaging with those political demands, which are actually closer to a resolution than any Israeli leader has ever offered the Palestinian people, the demands are completely ignored. And if not ignored, then used as fodder to justify Israeli military campaigns.
We see that most actively in October 7. Rather than engaging with the wider context from which that attack emerged, we see the immediate rhetoric that's coming out as one that's equating Hamas with, let's say, ISIS or Al-Qaeda, and in some ways preemptively preparing the international public, but also the Western public, the Israeli public, to accept any kind of retaliation, to accept any kind of force. Because this is not a rational party that we must engage with, this is a bloodthirsty party that's barbaric, that's committed to the annihilation of the Jewish people. The label of terrorism allows that reframing to happen and removes any kind of political or social context from this and in some ways removes the responsibility of politicians to engage with this issue politically.
posted by i like crows very much at 10:41 AM on June 8 [12 favorites]
Western progressives supporting solutions that would permit Hamas to return with offensive capability have just been wasting their time.
Hamas was deliberately kept in power by Israel in order to justify violence against Palestine. Apparently it continues to serve that purpose.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 10:49 AM on June 8 [16 favorites]
Hamas was deliberately kept in power by Israel in order to justify violence against Palestine. Apparently it continues to serve that purpose.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 10:49 AM on June 8 [16 favorites]
No culpability at all. The bombs and bullets and blockades just appear. Beautiful exonerative tense!
So then, if it's undisputed that:
-Hamas is still hiding armed fighters inside a refugee camp
-Hamas is still hiding living civilian hostages from the 10/7 attacks
-Hamas is still trying to use their own populace as human shields, which should be clear by now is ineffective and ruinous
Then yes, I know where the culpability lies. Everyone -- including the shot-callers of Hamas living in their apartments in Doha or Dubai -- knows that there's no possibility of a ceasefire until the hostages are returned. And Baconi is out there trying to trick leftists to accept Hamas as a political populist movement?
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:54 AM on June 8 [1 favorite]
So then, if it's undisputed that:
-Hamas is still hiding armed fighters inside a refugee camp
-Hamas is still hiding living civilian hostages from the 10/7 attacks
-Hamas is still trying to use their own populace as human shields, which should be clear by now is ineffective and ruinous
Then yes, I know where the culpability lies. Everyone -- including the shot-callers of Hamas living in their apartments in Doha or Dubai -- knows that there's no possibility of a ceasefire until the hostages are returned. And Baconi is out there trying to trick leftists to accept Hamas as a political populist movement?
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:54 AM on June 8 [1 favorite]
Ah, the "genocide is Israel's only option" squad has arrived.
Israel is making choices. If you think Israel is somehow obligated to behave as it does, explain in depth how you come to that conclusion without dismissing Palestinian lives.
And maybe think what it says about your opinion of Israelis if you think they're incapable of anything other than the most disproportionate, murderous response.
posted by sagc at 11:59 AM on June 8 [23 favorites]
Israel is making choices. If you think Israel is somehow obligated to behave as it does, explain in depth how you come to that conclusion without dismissing Palestinian lives.
And maybe think what it says about your opinion of Israelis if you think they're incapable of anything other than the most disproportionate, murderous response.
posted by sagc at 11:59 AM on June 8 [23 favorites]
I apologize, the edit window closed, but I would change one thing above: Where I wrote that "Hamas is still trying to use their own populace as human shields" I should have written "Hamas is still trying to use Palestinians as human shields" because I utterly reject any claim made by Hamas that they are representative of the people that they exploit.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 12:01 PM on June 8
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 12:01 PM on June 8
I wish people saying that it's all inevitable and entirely Hamas' fault would lay out just how many Palestinians they see as equal to a citizen of Israel. Because if you think of them as equally human, and worthy of life, I don't see how you can't utterly condemn Israel for an utterly disproportionate response. Forget questions of responsibility, or whether Israel is capable of not committing war crimes (or whether they're simply being controlled on every way by those dastardly Palestinians) - Israel has prosecuted this war in a way that is utterly beyond anything Hamas has done, and beyond what they're even capable of. They are the party with power here.
posted by sagc at 12:11 PM on June 8 [22 favorites]
posted by sagc at 12:11 PM on June 8 [22 favorites]
-Hamas is still hiding armed fighters inside a refugee camp
-Hamas is still hiding living civilian hostages from the 10/7 attacks
-Hamas is still trying to use their own populace as human shields, which should be clear by now is ineffective and ruinous
Would the people of Gaza be justified in slaughtering Israeli civilians, including children, indiscriminately in order to punish the IDF, until Israel cannot threaten them, and all Palestinian hostages have been released?
If not, how do can anything Hamas did morally justify what Israel is doing?
posted by The Manwich Horror at 12:13 PM on June 8 [18 favorites]
-Hamas is still hiding living civilian hostages from the 10/7 attacks
-Hamas is still trying to use their own populace as human shields, which should be clear by now is ineffective and ruinous
Would the people of Gaza be justified in slaughtering Israeli civilians, including children, indiscriminately in order to punish the IDF, until Israel cannot threaten them, and all Palestinian hostages have been released?
If not, how do can anything Hamas did morally justify what Israel is doing?
posted by The Manwich Horror at 12:13 PM on June 8 [18 favorites]
Because Israeli citizens are more worthy of our regard, obviously.
posted by Gadarene at 1:08 PM on June 8 [5 favorites]
posted by Gadarene at 1:08 PM on June 8 [5 favorites]
I wish people saying that it's all inevitable and entirely Hamas' fault would lay out just how many Palestinians they see as equal to a citizen of Israel.
sagc: funnily enough, a study was recently released that aims to answer this question, at least as far as Israeli beliefs go.
sagc: funnily enough, a study was recently released that aims to answer this question, at least as far as Israeli beliefs go.
Israelis’ hostile orientation towards Palestinians was also expressed across the outcome measures: participants in our sample reported experiencing strong negative emotions towards Palestinians, exhibited relatively low willingness to negotiate, low support for concession making, high support for collective aggression, and strikingly high acceptance of civilian casualties. On average, participants indicated that they would be willing to kill 575 Palestinian civilians in order to save the life of one Israeli soldier wounded by a Palestinian militant. The median for this measure in our sample was 990 Palestinians, and the modal response was the maximum value allowed (i.e., 1000 Palestinians, selected by 49.9% of the sample).posted by adrienneleigh at 2:27 PM on June 8 [11 favorites]
Hamas is still trying to use their own populace as human shields, which should be clear by now is ineffective and ruinous
This is propaganda. It has always been propaganda. Israel, on the other hand, is well-known for using Palestinians (often children) as human shields.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:29 PM on June 8 [17 favorites]
This is propaganda. It has always been propaganda. Israel, on the other hand, is well-known for using Palestinians (often children) as human shields.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:29 PM on June 8 [17 favorites]
the modal response was the maximum value allowed (i.e., 1000 Palestinians, selected by 49.9% of the sample)
Jfc
posted by Audreynachrome at 3:03 PM on June 8 [3 favorites]
Jfc
posted by Audreynachrome at 3:03 PM on June 8 [3 favorites]
sagc: funnily enough, a study was recently released that aims to answer this question, at least as far as Israeli beliefs go.
sorry, adrienneleigh, but that's at best, an incomplete reading of a quite specific study.
the study's title is literally "The enemy as animal: Symmetric dehumanization during asymmetric warfare" (my emphasis)
The abstract states
We observed that (a) community samples of Israelis and Palestinians expressed extreme (and comparable) levels of blatant dehumanization, (b) blatant dehumanization was uniquely associated with outcomes related to outgroup hostility for both groups, even after accounting for political ideologies known to strongly predict outgroup aggression, and (c) the strength of association between blatant dehumanization and outcomes was similar across both groups.
--
This was from 2014. I'm sure the last decade won't help things at all in this regard, putting it mildly. This of course speaks nothing as to the material consequences of dehumanization of Israelis and Palestinians , which I commented on above.
posted by lalochezia at 3:33 PM on June 8 [4 favorites]
Yeah, that study is a lot broader than the initial presentation. It's actually a set of paired studies, one looking at Israeli dehumanization of Palestinians and a second looking at Palestinian dehumanization of Israelis. As lalochezia says they found similar levels across both groups. There are some differences which are important, particularly to my reading the association of higher levels of dehumanization with higher levels of perceived power, but the differences are relatively small compared to the absolute values.
posted by Justinian at 3:43 PM on June 8 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 3:43 PM on June 8 [1 favorite]
Well let me slightly amend that. It's hard to compare the absolute values because the study had to use different variables. (For instance, they don't include 1000 as an option in the Palestinian study because the authors specifically say that Palestinians do not have the military capacity to harm 1000 Israeli civilians... which is, shall we say, unfortunate given the spark that lit the current conflict).
In any case it seems likely these numbers would have only gotten worse over the past 10 years.
posted by Justinian at 3:48 PM on June 8 [2 favorites]
In any case it seems likely these numbers would have only gotten worse over the past 10 years.
posted by Justinian at 3:48 PM on June 8 [2 favorites]
lalochezia: yes, i know the study is about symmetric dehumanization. Many of the findings about Palestinian opinions of Israelis, of course, are also very strongly dehumanizing. I regard that as pretty normal and not even particularly upsetting, when people have been under occupation for decades. If Israelis don't want Palestinians to regard them as evil subhuman monsters, i might suggest that they stop brutalizing Palestinians.
The dehumanization may be symmetric, but, as the study itself acknowledges, the power is not.
I also thought this was telling, about the biases of the people conducting the study (they asked Palestinians this question but not Israelis):
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:50 PM on June 8 [13 favorites]
The dehumanization may be symmetric, but, as the study itself acknowledges, the power is not.
I also thought this was telling, about the biases of the people conducting the study (they asked Palestinians this question but not Israelis):
Trust.Palestinians are absolutely correct not to trust Israel, which has a long history of making deals that they then break in brutal and murderous ways.
We reasoned that individuals who dehumanized the outgroup would also be less likely to trust them, a key element promoting the likelihood of intergroup reconciliation [39]. We assessed trust of Israelis using three items: “I do not believe in the peaceful intentions of Israelis” (reverse-scored), “I trust that Israelis want to find a solution that will bring peace between Palestinians and Israelis”, and “If Israelis signed a political agreement, I trust that they would honor that agreement” [39]. Responses were provided on unmarked sliders anchored at 0 (‘Completely disagree’) and 100 (‘Completely agree’). The first item was not correlated with the remaining two items, from which we thus computed our composite measure (r = .33, p < .001).
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:50 PM on June 8 [13 favorites]
Also, I haven't seen this confirmed yet, but early reports indicate that the Israeli rescue operation today included using humanitarian aid delivery trucks as a pretext to enter the camp. This is the war crime of perfidy, and it's not the first time Israel has committed it since October 7.
Of course, because every Israeli accusation is a confession, the IDF has repeatedly cited Hamas' theoretical use of humanitarian aid trucks and ambulances as their reason for murdering innocent paramedics and aid workers (including the World Kitchen workers a couple months ago).
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:15 PM on June 8 [14 favorites]
Of course, because every Israeli accusation is a confession, the IDF has repeatedly cited Hamas' theoretical use of humanitarian aid trucks and ambulances as their reason for murdering innocent paramedics and aid workers (including the World Kitchen workers a couple months ago).
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:15 PM on June 8 [14 favorites]
I've seen claims about the aid trucks but no evidence yet. I've seen reports on surer footing of at least some of the hostages being evacuated by an Israeli helicopter from the beach at the base of the floating aid pier. I'm not sure what the legality of that bit would be. I know Israel has a dug in position there to provide security, but I don't know if that's considered part of the pier or not.
posted by Justinian at 4:29 PM on June 8 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 4:29 PM on June 8 [1 favorite]
I've seen claims about the aid trucks but no evidence yet.
If it turns out that the claims about the aid trucks are true, what would that mean to you?
posted by Gadarene at 5:46 PM on June 8 [4 favorites]
If it turns out that the claims about the aid trucks are true, what would that mean to you?
posted by Gadarene at 5:46 PM on June 8 [4 favorites]
Seems like a pretty cut and dry case of perfidy. I didn't say it didn't happen, I said we haven't seen any evidence of it happening yet. I've seen a picture of an aid truck with an arrow pointing to it here but that's hardly evidence
The helicopter-from-the-pier report looks more reliable but like I said I don't know whether that would also be illegal.
posted by Justinian at 6:32 PM on June 8
The helicopter-from-the-pier report looks more reliable but like I said I don't know whether that would also be illegal.
posted by Justinian at 6:32 PM on June 8
That "aid" pier has now killed more Palestinian civilians than it has fed.
I have very low expectations for US government policy on Gaza and somehow they are still failing to be met.
posted by zymil at 7:04 PM on June 8 [8 favorites]
I have very low expectations for US government policy on Gaza and somehow they are still failing to be met.
posted by zymil at 7:04 PM on June 8 [8 favorites]
USCENTCOM
June 8, 2024
Release Number 20240608-02
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
TAMPA, Fla. – Today at approximately 10:30 a.m. (Gaza time) U.S. Central Command (USCENTCOM) began delivery of humanitarian assistance ashore in Gaza. Today, a total of approximately 492 metric tons (~1.1 million pounds) of much needed humanitarian assistance was delivered to the people of Gaza. To date, USCENTCOM has assisted in the delivery of more than 1,573 metric tons (~3.5 million pounds) of humanitarian aid.
No U.S. military personnel went ashore in Gaza.
posted by clavdivs at 8:15 PM on June 8 [2 favorites]
June 8, 2024
Release Number 20240608-02
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
TAMPA, Fla. – Today at approximately 10:30 a.m. (Gaza time) U.S. Central Command (USCENTCOM) began delivery of humanitarian assistance ashore in Gaza. Today, a total of approximately 492 metric tons (~1.1 million pounds) of much needed humanitarian assistance was delivered to the people of Gaza. To date, USCENTCOM has assisted in the delivery of more than 1,573 metric tons (~3.5 million pounds) of humanitarian aid.
No U.S. military personnel went ashore in Gaza.
posted by clavdivs at 8:15 PM on June 8 [2 favorites]
Palestinians do not have the military capacity to harm 1000 Israeli civilians... which is, shall we say, unfortunate given the spark that lit the current conflict).
Sorry, do you have some big news release you're not sharing with the rest of the class? Well under 1000 Israeli civilians were killed on October 7, even before we question how many of those were the IDF's own targets.
You're surely not doing the thing where all Israelis are civilians, right? That would be embarrassing, to so openly be biased in favour of Israel this many thousand dead children into the occupation.
posted by Audreynachrome at 8:17 PM on June 8 [8 favorites]
Sorry, do you have some big news release you're not sharing with the rest of the class? Well under 1000 Israeli civilians were killed on October 7, even before we question how many of those were the IDF's own targets.
You're surely not doing the thing where all Israelis are civilians, right? That would be embarrassing, to so openly be biased in favour of Israel this many thousand dead children into the occupation.
posted by Audreynachrome at 8:17 PM on June 8 [8 favorites]
The official toll is 764 civilians. For fucks sake, are you really splitting hairs when the point I was making was that they never asked about numbers that high in the Palestinian side of study because they didn't believe it was possible?
posted by Justinian at 8:55 PM on June 8
posted by Justinian at 8:55 PM on June 8
(That doesn't include the hostages as far as I am aware, which pushes the number over 1000 though only some of the hostages were/are civilians).
posted by Justinian at 8:55 PM on June 8
posted by Justinian at 8:55 PM on June 8
Centcom has released a statement about the pier:
posted by Justinian at 9:08 PM on June 8 [3 favorites]
The humanitarian pier facility, including its equipment, personnel, and assets were not used in the operation to rescue hostages today in Gaza. An area south of the facility was used by the Israelis to safely return the hostages to Israel. Any such claim to the contrary is false. The temporary pier on the coast of Gaza was put in place for one purpose only, to help move additional, urgently needed lifesaving assistance into Gaza."An area south of the facility" is doing a lot of work there since they don't specify how far south of the facility. If the video I've seen is of the hostage evac the area is, like, 100 feet south of the facility.
posted by Justinian at 9:08 PM on June 8 [3 favorites]
The US government lies at least as much as the Israeli government; i don't consider a CENTCOM statement to be evidence of anything in any direction, tbh.
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:47 PM on June 8 [5 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:47 PM on June 8 [5 favorites]
are you really splitting hairs
When one of the worst and most pernicious lies that Israel supports get away with constantly is suggesting any dead journalist or 13 year old is Hamas, I actually feel pretty good about being strict about coming down hard about that, and that includes the opposite and complementary lie, that all Israelis are civilians murdered.
You know this is the media environment, but you chose to handwave an extra 33% of civilian casualties into existence. That's pretty significant to me! Hundreds of people's lives, which in the Israeli calculation, is like minimum ten thousand civilians to balance that.
posted by Audreynachrome at 9:55 PM on June 8 [7 favorites]
When one of the worst and most pernicious lies that Israel supports get away with constantly is suggesting any dead journalist or 13 year old is Hamas, I actually feel pretty good about being strict about coming down hard about that, and that includes the opposite and complementary lie, that all Israelis are civilians murdered.
You know this is the media environment, but you chose to handwave an extra 33% of civilian casualties into existence. That's pretty significant to me! Hundreds of people's lives, which in the Israeli calculation, is like minimum ten thousand civilians to balance that.
posted by Audreynachrome at 9:55 PM on June 8 [7 favorites]
Ramy Abdul, on Twitter
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:14 PM on June 8 [17 favorites]
In an initial testimony documenting the killings committed by the Israeli army in the Nuseirat camp today, the @EuroMedHR reported that the Israeli army used a ladder to enter the home of Dr. Ahmed Al-Jamal. The army immediately executed 36-year-old Fatima Al-Jamal upon encountering her on the staircase. The forces then stormed the house and executed her husband, journalist Abdullah Al-Jamal, 36, and his father, Dr. Ahmed, 74, in front of his grandchildren. The army also shot their daughter, Zainab, 27, who sustained serious injuries.(This is literally the exact sort of behavior that Israel claims justifies their response to October 7, for the record.)
*typo error: Zainab is the daughter of the elderly Ahmad.
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:14 PM on June 8 [17 favorites]
Hamas can't disarm. I'm increasingly convinced. Average Israeli is metaphorically basically walking around in a t-shirt that says "Sabra and Shatila? I'd call that a good start"
posted by Audreynachrome at 12:37 AM on June 9 [3 favorites]
posted by Audreynachrome at 12:37 AM on June 9 [3 favorites]
I think this dehumanization study misses the forest for the trees. From its conclusion:
I looked into the researchers to better understand where they were coming from. From Emile Bruneau's obituary in the NYT (archive link):
I'm reminded of an interview with Mohammed El-Kurd from July 2023:
Overall, this work adds substantial weight to the recent evidence for the importance of blatant outgroup dehumanization, showing that it can take root not only among those groups occupying the upper echelons of power and status but also among those at the bottom. Our findings argue for the importance of continued research in this area. If, as UNESCO claims, “wars begin in the minds of men [and women]”, it is critical that we understand how and why individuals come to openly perceive their adversaries as animals unworthy of moral consideration, so we can assess efforts employed to erode this imposing psychological edifice.At a high level, we know why this genocide began. Genocide occurs when a settler-colonial nation decides to eliminate the indigenous population in order to preserve its national myth. As William Schabas says, "Genocide is the last resort of the frustrated ethnic cleanser." It is not some great mystery. You cannot talk about "eroding the psychological edifice" without talking about the bombs being used to destroy Palestinian homes.
I looked into the researchers to better understand where they were coming from. From Emile Bruneau's obituary in the NYT (archive link):
He had Palestinians and Israelis watch videos of one another talking about their hardships. He designed elaborate experiments involving actors to measure racial prejudice among Hungarian schoolteachers. He scanned the brains of Democrats and Republicans for clues about how conflict mutes empathy.This is what I mean. The idea that you can construct a general framework that "factors out" the particular histories of different conflicts and then apply it to Palestinians, Israelis, Hungarians, Democrats, Republicans alike. It obscures more than it clarifies.
Emile learned a great deal from this work: Groups often overestimate the extent to which other groups hate them. Even people who commit horrible violence can be deeply empathetic. And most minds really can be changed, intentionally, for the better.
I'm reminded of an interview with Mohammed El-Kurd from July 2023:
Lex Fridman: Do you have hate in your heart for Israel?posted by i like crows very much at 2:34 AM on June 9 [15 favorites]
El-Kurd: Why does that matter?
Fridman: As one human being to another, you're describing quite brilliantly that the contents of people's hearts don't matter as much as the policies. The contents of the courts and the laws and what actually is going on in the streets in terms of actions. But this is also a human story. At the core of the situation here is hate. Or maybe inability for some group of humans to see the humanity in another group of humans. It's important here to talk about contents of hearts if we're to think about the long-term future.
El-Kurd: Yeah, I mean, I would be concerned if I didn't feel some kind of way in my heart. I would be concerned for my own dignity. The people who revolt, the people who are angry, the people who refuse to live under occupation know that they deserve better. People start revolutions not because of some kind of cultural phenomenon, not because of some kind of desire, but because they cannot breathe, because they cannot live. They are living under excruciating circumstances.
[...]
I personally think there is a lot of dignity in negating your oppressor. It would be ridiculous today if we looked back at Jim Crow and we asked the person who's lived under Jim Crow if they have hate in their heart for Jim Crow. As if that's not the absolutely logical and natural sentiment to feel.
Daniel Hilton reviews for the Guardian, 'Hamas: The Quest for Power' written by Beverley Milton-Edwards and Stephen Farrel.
posted by lalochezia at 10:49 AM on June 9
posted by lalochezia at 10:49 AM on June 9
Benny Gantz resigns from Israel's emergency government (NYT gift)
“Unfortunately, Netanyahu is preventing us from advancing to the real victory,” he said. “Therefore, we are leaving the emergency government with a heavy but complete heart.”posted by box at 11:07 AM on June 9 [2 favorites]
It occurs to me that some of you folks who say stuff like "Hamas uses their population as human shields" and "why does Hamas operate in civilian areas?" in good faith (and i have to believe that some of you are speaking in good faith, or i will want to die even more than i already do) might not have a real sense of scale here.
The entirety of Gaza is half the size of New York City. It's one-quarter the size of London. It's ¹⁄₃₄ the size of Sydney. And even before Israel destroyed more than 60% of all the buildings, it was one of the most densely-populated areas on Earth, and entirely surrounded by a heavily militarized border where the IDF shoots anyone who comes within 1km of it for basically any reason.
There is nowhere for the Al-Qassam Brigades to operate that is not full of civilians. Even the farmland is more densely-populated than you imagine!
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:23 PM on June 9 [23 favorites]
The entirety of Gaza is half the size of New York City. It's one-quarter the size of London. It's ¹⁄₃₄ the size of Sydney. And even before Israel destroyed more than 60% of all the buildings, it was one of the most densely-populated areas on Earth, and entirely surrounded by a heavily militarized border where the IDF shoots anyone who comes within 1km of it for basically any reason.
There is nowhere for the Al-Qassam Brigades to operate that is not full of civilians. Even the farmland is more densely-populated than you imagine!
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:23 PM on June 9 [23 favorites]
Since I linked to the Palestinian Chronicle myself in a comment when referring to the reports of the Israelis using aid trucks and evacuating hostages from the floating pier, I should also now link to this story that one of the hostages (Noa Argamani) was being held captive literally in the home of a staff writer for the Palestinian Chronicle, which obviously casts their stories on the raid in a different light. I still think the helicopter evac was probably extremely close to the humanitarian pier even if CENTCOM wants to call that "from an area south of the facility. Having one of their staff writers holding one of the hostages is clearly a problem for credibility though.
posted by Justinian at 2:28 PM on June 9
posted by Justinian at 2:28 PM on June 9
Justinian: Muhammad Shehada has a Twitter thread about the report that one or more hostages was kept in al-Jamal's apartment. Israel first reported that he was keeping Argamani; then they reported that no, he was keeping the three male hostages instead. In fact, he lived in a first floor apartment in the building, and Israel also claims the hostages were found on the third floor.
Basically, there is no reason at this point to believe that al-Jamal had any knowledge of the hostages, or was anything other than a journalist. And the IDF has every reason to make shit up, especially given that (as i mentioned last night) they executed his entire family including his elderly father.
Israel has killed more than 100 journalists since October 7, and their excuse—when they bother to give one at all—has always been that they are "Hamas operatives".
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:47 PM on June 9 [13 favorites]
Basically, there is no reason at this point to believe that al-Jamal had any knowledge of the hostages, or was anything other than a journalist. And the IDF has every reason to make shit up, especially given that (as i mentioned last night) they executed his entire family including his elderly father.
Israel has killed more than 100 journalists since October 7, and their excuse—when they bother to give one at all—has always been that they are "Hamas operatives".
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:47 PM on June 9 [13 favorites]
Those tweets are saying that the hostages were not being held in the apartment of the journalist(s) but in the same apartment building as he happened to have an apartment? (nb that's not me being skeptical I'm just making sure I understand). And Israel was basically like "everybody who lives in an apartment in this building is involved"? That's plausible given what we know.
posted by Justinian at 2:53 PM on June 9
posted by Justinian at 2:53 PM on June 9
Justinian:
The IDF is claiming that:
a) al-Jamal was directly involved
b) he was holding Argamani
c) no, he wasn't holding Argamani, he was holding the three male hostages
d) the hostages were recovered from the third floor of the apartment building
Obviously at most three of those things can be true, since b) and c) are mutually exclusive. The only one that i'd personally believe without corroboration is d), since i can't think of any reason they'd lie about that.
Shehada says that al-Jamal lives on the first floor, which should be straightforward to check and corroborate and which, if it's true, is a reason to doubt a) through c). It's not by itself sufficient evidence that he wasn't involved, i suppose, but the IDF has a lot of reasons to lie and a lot of prior form.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:58 PM on June 9 [4 favorites]
The IDF is claiming that:
a) al-Jamal was directly involved
b) he was holding Argamani
c) no, he wasn't holding Argamani, he was holding the three male hostages
d) the hostages were recovered from the third floor of the apartment building
Obviously at most three of those things can be true, since b) and c) are mutually exclusive. The only one that i'd personally believe without corroboration is d), since i can't think of any reason they'd lie about that.
Shehada says that al-Jamal lives on the first floor, which should be straightforward to check and corroborate and which, if it's true, is a reason to doubt a) through c). It's not by itself sufficient evidence that he wasn't involved, i suppose, but the IDF has a lot of reasons to lie and a lot of prior form.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:58 PM on June 9 [4 favorites]
I'm not saying that he definitively wasn't involved; i don't personally think that there's any solid reason to think he was, but i can't rule it out or anything. I'm just saying there's no reason at this point to believe the uncorroborated report from the IDF, or to suggest that that reporting "casts doubt on" the Palestinian Chronicle's journalism overall.
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:03 PM on June 9 [4 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:03 PM on June 9 [4 favorites]
I agree it should be relatively straightforward to establish exactly which apartment they were being held in. The 3 male captives probably know who was holding them, if nothing else. That doesn't mean we're going to get a definitive answer any time soon but it should be possible to get one.
posted by Justinian at 3:10 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 3:10 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
Eyeing showdown with Hezbollah, Israel presses shadow campaign in Syria - "Israel has intensified covert strikes in Syria against weapons sites, supply routes and Iranian-linked commanders, seven regional officials and diplomats said, ahead of a threatened full-scale assault on Tehran's key ally Hezbollah in Lebanon."
also btw...
-U.S. to Offer Landmark Defense Treaty to Saudi Arabia in Effort to Spur Israel Normalization Deal[1,2]
-Iran Approves Six Candidates to Run for President. All but One Are Conservatives.
posted by kliuless at 8:34 AM on June 10 [3 favorites]
also btw...
-U.S. to Offer Landmark Defense Treaty to Saudi Arabia in Effort to Spur Israel Normalization Deal[1,2]
-Iran Approves Six Candidates to Run for President. All but One Are Conservatives.
posted by kliuless at 8:34 AM on June 10 [3 favorites]
UN Security Council backs US Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan.
The resolution claims Israel has accepted it though that hasn't been the impression I've gotten from Netanyahu! Obviously public and private statements can be very different.
Also, the IDF has released bodycam footage of the rescue of the hostages from what (as discussed above) they claim is the apartment of al-Jamal. It's cut to not be graphic but it's still very intense so I'm not sure most people would want to see it.
posted by Justinian at 2:12 PM on June 10
The resolution claims Israel has accepted it though that hasn't been the impression I've gotten from Netanyahu! Obviously public and private statements can be very different.
Also, the IDF has released bodycam footage of the rescue of the hostages from what (as discussed above) they claim is the apartment of al-Jamal. It's cut to not be graphic but it's still very intense so I'm not sure most people would want to see it.
posted by Justinian at 2:12 PM on June 10
Gaza health ministry says Israeli hostage rescue killed 274 Palestinians
Israeli war cabinet minister Benny Gantz quits emergency government
Netanyahu walks tightrope as US urges Gaza ceasefire deal
UN Security Council backs US Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan
So they lined up the tanks, pointed the guns inward, and did the thing, eh... I'm sure the safest possible location to hide hostages in was not incongruent to the safest possible location left for Palestinian families to hide in... let's consider logistics and then call it that, shall we? all righty then
Reminds me of rape culture rhetoric wherein, "she was obviously asking for it"/"they were obviously using women and children as human shields"... or maybe this was a desperate person/these were desperate people who behave as desperate people do when their society has not given them enough options to reconcile being a good citizen on the terms given. Kind of reminds me of how all those indian children were asking for it too, you know, because their parents were "obviously" too primitive and savage to understand how to love them anyway, and so as a result, now "they're just like that" as opposed to having human responses to traumatic realities. Anyhow, I remember the anus-penetrating-rod incident I witnessed during the childhood phase of my domestic experience. I remember every time the narco-psycho-perpetrator did these things, we the children would wonder, is this enough to get it to stop? now that he's done this, and hurt a child this bad, will someone finally notice that this adult is a psycho and put an end to it? it wasn't until he messed up and hurt the kids of someone who would actually get outraged because their self-esteem wasn't tied into or invested whatsoever in the perpetrator's sacred patriarchal image, then it did finally change... and not without some extinction-burst style violence of course...
So I have to wonder now, was this enough? Was 274 Palestinian deaths in exchange for 4 Israeli hostage lives enough for getting this one person (oh yet another old powerful white man, incidentally) to finally stop doing what they're doing to innocents, especially children, simply because they can? Seeing the UN Security Council's 14-1 vote in support of the Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan gives me hope that this can be a turning point, as foolish as that hope may be. For those of us not invested in Netanyahu as the sole gatekeeper incarnate on Earth to attachment salvation, are there finally enough of us (in higher levels of authority whose decision-making matters) who are not participating in the collective attachment anesthesia to be outraged?
hmmm, that said, and willing to take a risk standing up to a bully, when there's another bully, i.e. Putin, ready to take up delivering the left-and-right jabs just as soon as the current warmongerer loses rank? because there can be no dismantling of systems of lateral violence without consequent and cascading survival-brained reactions from other concurrently occurring systems of lateral violence, now can there
posted by human ecologist at 2:16 PM on June 10 [1 favorite]
Israeli war cabinet minister Benny Gantz quits emergency government
Netanyahu walks tightrope as US urges Gaza ceasefire deal
UN Security Council backs US Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan
So they lined up the tanks, pointed the guns inward, and did the thing, eh... I'm sure the safest possible location to hide hostages in was not incongruent to the safest possible location left for Palestinian families to hide in... let's consider logistics and then call it that, shall we? all righty then
Reminds me of rape culture rhetoric wherein, "she was obviously asking for it"/"they were obviously using women and children as human shields"... or maybe this was a desperate person/these were desperate people who behave as desperate people do when their society has not given them enough options to reconcile being a good citizen on the terms given. Kind of reminds me of how all those indian children were asking for it too, you know, because their parents were "obviously" too primitive and savage to understand how to love them anyway, and so as a result, now "they're just like that" as opposed to having human responses to traumatic realities. Anyhow, I remember the anus-penetrating-rod incident I witnessed during the childhood phase of my domestic experience. I remember every time the narco-psycho-perpetrator did these things, we the children would wonder, is this enough to get it to stop? now that he's done this, and hurt a child this bad, will someone finally notice that this adult is a psycho and put an end to it? it wasn't until he messed up and hurt the kids of someone who would actually get outraged because their self-esteem wasn't tied into or invested whatsoever in the perpetrator's sacred patriarchal image, then it did finally change... and not without some extinction-burst style violence of course...
So I have to wonder now, was this enough? Was 274 Palestinian deaths in exchange for 4 Israeli hostage lives enough for getting this one person (oh yet another old powerful white man, incidentally) to finally stop doing what they're doing to innocents, especially children, simply because they can? Seeing the UN Security Council's 14-1 vote in support of the Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan gives me hope that this can be a turning point, as foolish as that hope may be. For those of us not invested in Netanyahu as the sole gatekeeper incarnate on Earth to attachment salvation, are there finally enough of us (in higher levels of authority whose decision-making matters) who are not participating in the collective attachment anesthesia to be outraged?
hmmm, that said, and willing to take a risk standing up to a bully, when there's another bully, i.e. Putin, ready to take up delivering the left-and-right jabs just as soon as the current warmongerer loses rank? because there can be no dismantling of systems of lateral violence without consequent and cascading survival-brained reactions from other concurrently occurring systems of lateral violence, now can there
posted by human ecologist at 2:16 PM on June 10 [1 favorite]
Hamas welcomes UN Security Council resolution for ceasefire.
Rep James Clyburn said he will not be attending Netanyahu's address to Congress.
Biden admin considering negotiating a unilateral deal with Hamas on the release of 5 American hostages if current ceasefire talks fail.
The Intercept has posted eyewitness accounts of the IDF operation in Nuseirat (content warning for images of violence and death).
posted by toastyk at 2:20 PM on June 10 [6 favorites]
Rep James Clyburn said he will not be attending Netanyahu's address to Congress.
Biden admin considering negotiating a unilateral deal with Hamas on the release of 5 American hostages if current ceasefire talks fail.
The Intercept has posted eyewitness accounts of the IDF operation in Nuseirat (content warning for images of violence and death).
posted by toastyk at 2:20 PM on June 10 [6 favorites]
is it me or is sending weapons to bomb Palestinians and then sending food to try and feed Palestinians and then try to poke a stick and netanyahu's eye by negotiating with Hamas for Americans and it seems to be Americans only, out the box, half-measures thinking.
like an image of Kissinger in the 10 gallon hat
posted by clavdivs at 2:54 PM on June 10 [4 favorites]
like an image of Kissinger in the 10 gallon hat
posted by clavdivs at 2:54 PM on June 10 [4 favorites]
relevant Pia Guerra illustration (third one down)
posted by elkevelvet at 3:02 PM on June 10 [6 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 3:02 PM on June 10 [6 favorites]
This may or may not be significant in the scheme of things, but Intel is apparently halting their plans to build a new plant in Israel.
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:46 PM on June 10 [4 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:46 PM on June 10 [4 favorites]
Israel is doing a great job of ensuring its demise.
posted by iamck at 10:36 PM on June 10 [4 favorites]
posted by iamck at 10:36 PM on June 10 [4 favorites]
Headlines I saw this morning as I woke up:
Blinken says fate of ceasefire down to Hamas.
Israel vows to press on in Gaza after UN Security Council approves ceasefire resolution.
WSJ Exclusive: Gaza Chief’s Brutal Calculation: Civilian Bloodshed Will Help Hamas (sorry, I don't have a sub and archive.is doesn't appear to have the whole article up)
Battlefield deaths from global conflicts hit 30-year high, study finds.
posted by toastyk at 7:04 AM on June 11 [5 favorites]
Blinken says fate of ceasefire down to Hamas.
Israel vows to press on in Gaza after UN Security Council approves ceasefire resolution.
WSJ Exclusive: Gaza Chief’s Brutal Calculation: Civilian Bloodshed Will Help Hamas (sorry, I don't have a sub and archive.is doesn't appear to have the whole article up)
Battlefield deaths from global conflicts hit 30-year high, study finds.
posted by toastyk at 7:04 AM on June 11 [5 favorites]
This may or may not be significant in the scheme of things, but Intel is apparently halting their plans to build a new plant in Israel.
Intel stock today.
30.92 USD +0.010 (0.032%)today
Closed: Jun 11, 4:38 PM EDT • Disclaimer
After hours 30.92 −0.00030 (0.00097%)
"The U.S. company, asked about the report, cited the need to adapt big projects to changing timelines, without directly referring to the project."
I would say it's quite significant in the ambiguity of Intel's press announcement.
not a high finance guy butI'm not sure how the 3.8 billion grant that Israel is going to give to Intel for them to build a 25 billion dollar plant works, does it come from the billions that we sent them. the only thing I can think of is long-term investiture by the company is reassesing long-term viability.
posted by clavdivs at 1:54 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]
Intel stock today.
30.92 USD +0.010 (0.032%)today
Closed: Jun 11, 4:38 PM EDT • Disclaimer
After hours 30.92 −0.00030 (0.00097%)
"The U.S. company, asked about the report, cited the need to adapt big projects to changing timelines, without directly referring to the project."
I would say it's quite significant in the ambiguity of Intel's press announcement.
not a high finance guy butI'm not sure how the 3.8 billion grant that Israel is going to give to Intel for them to build a 25 billion dollar plant works, does it come from the billions that we sent them. the only thing I can think of is long-term investiture by the company is reassesing long-term viability.
posted by clavdivs at 1:54 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]
Hamas seeks 'complete halt' to war in Gaza proposal response (as a follow up to this already referenced above)
UN 'shocked' at Israeli hostage rescue's impact on Gaza civilians
Sure seems like a lot of pivoting is going on to attempt to make Hamas look as though they're the party still driving the bloodshed, when in fact Hamas is the only party of the two which has asked for a permanent end to the war in order to avoid the aforementioned slaughter.
posted by human ecologist at 3:43 PM on June 11 [5 favorites]
UN 'shocked' at Israeli hostage rescue's impact on Gaza civilians
“The toll of this war on civilians is first and foremost the product of Hamas’s deliberate strategy to maximise civilian harm”But was it? Was it really a strategy to maximize civilian harm, or was it more of what the outcome looks like when the underdog in the arena didn't know that their next hit was going to be a knockout punch in what is already a fixed fight...
Sure seems like a lot of pivoting is going on to attempt to make Hamas look as though they're the party still driving the bloodshed, when in fact Hamas is the only party of the two which has asked for a permanent end to the war in order to avoid the aforementioned slaughter.
posted by human ecologist at 3:43 PM on June 11 [5 favorites]
I don't know about maximizing civilian harm but the reporting is, as per for example toastyk's links, that Hamas believes that more civilian deaths serves their purposes and so they don't exactly want to avoid them. To be clear, it's pretty obvious that Netanyahu et al believe pretty much the same thing about Palestinian deaths.
A permanent end to the broader war between Israel and Hamas is only going to come when Israel recognizes that there must be an officially recognized Palestinian state which self-governs without Israeli interference and the leadership of that Palestinian state officially recognizes the Israeli state which must be allowed to exist without being constantly under threat of Oct 7th type attacks. Otherwise they're just kicking the can down the road to the next war.
posted by Justinian at 4:19 PM on June 11 [3 favorites]
A permanent end to the broader war between Israel and Hamas is only going to come when Israel recognizes that there must be an officially recognized Palestinian state which self-governs without Israeli interference and the leadership of that Palestinian state officially recognizes the Israeli state which must be allowed to exist without being constantly under threat of Oct 7th type attacks. Otherwise they're just kicking the can down the road to the next war.
posted by Justinian at 4:19 PM on June 11 [3 favorites]
if you are a low information person and you're bothering to read any media on Gaza, and the BBC is the type of media you're consuming, then the above linked article is doing its job well
they can report on something that truly defies imagination, I mean the magnitude of horror of what is happening in Gaza is beyond words at this point. and drop some Israeli quote that it's somehow the fault of Hamas, and presto: bothsides
fucking shameful
posted by elkevelvet at 4:20 PM on June 11 [13 favorites]
they can report on something that truly defies imagination, I mean the magnitude of horror of what is happening in Gaza is beyond words at this point. and drop some Israeli quote that it's somehow the fault of Hamas, and presto: bothsides
fucking shameful
posted by elkevelvet at 4:20 PM on June 11 [13 favorites]
Israel says Hamas rejects key elements of U.S. ceasefire plan for Gaza
I use a combination of BBC and CTV as well as a local news site to capture 3 scales of news coverage on a near-daily basis because that's all I have time for. Like many others here, I have been relying heavily on cendawanita's posts to gauge what might actually be happening. Coverage on Gaza is greatly suppressed as far as I can see in Canadian media, perhaps particularly with the recent ruling to ban the sharing of news content on Meta/Facebook as of last summer (wow! just in time for the war -- talk about timing! rather auspicious, that be). I'm also not a fan of the CBC so it is what it is.
I'm not just low information, btw. I'm a bottom feeder, and that's on a good day.
posted by human ecologist at 9:37 PM on June 11
I use a combination of BBC and CTV as well as a local news site to capture 3 scales of news coverage on a near-daily basis because that's all I have time for. Like many others here, I have been relying heavily on cendawanita's posts to gauge what might actually be happening. Coverage on Gaza is greatly suppressed as far as I can see in Canadian media, perhaps particularly with the recent ruling to ban the sharing of news content on Meta/Facebook as of last summer (wow! just in time for the war -- talk about timing! rather auspicious, that be). I'm also not a fan of the CBC so it is what it is.
I'm not just low information, btw. I'm a bottom feeder, and that's on a good day.
posted by human ecologist at 9:37 PM on June 11
human ecologist: Yes, the part that Hamas is rejecting is Israel's insistence that after the hostage exchange they are going to go right back to massacring Gaza until Hamas is destroyed.
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:41 PM on June 11 [6 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:41 PM on June 11 [6 favorites]
For those who have not read the proposals etc, the main sticking point is that the UN-endorsed ceasefire plan calls for an immediate 6 week ceasefire with Israel pulling back from Gaza militarily, the start of reconstruction efforts, the exchange of Palestinian prisoners in Israel for the hostages in Gaza, and negotiations to convert the 6 week ceasefire to a permanent one.
The major sticking point is the Hamas position that the initial ceasefire must be permanent while the proposal, as above, starts at 6 weeks with negotiations to make it permanent.
It's true that Hamas is probably right to be concerned that after 6 weeks of a temporary ceasefire there is no guarantee Israel will have agreed to a permanent deal and things could go back to a hot war. It's also true that Israel is probably right to be concerned that if they agree to a permanent ceasefire immediately there is no incentive for Hamas to negotiate laying down their arms and ceasing things like rocket attacks in the future.
If you think that Hamas shouldn't lay down their arms or stop attacks then, yes, obviously this sticking point is all on Israel. But if one takes that position then Israel really doesn't have any incentive to negotiate in the first place since they aren't going to accept a status quo ante situation where Hamas keeps attacking.
posted by Justinian at 12:10 AM on June 12 [2 favorites]
The major sticking point is the Hamas position that the initial ceasefire must be permanent while the proposal, as above, starts at 6 weeks with negotiations to make it permanent.
It's true that Hamas is probably right to be concerned that after 6 weeks of a temporary ceasefire there is no guarantee Israel will have agreed to a permanent deal and things could go back to a hot war. It's also true that Israel is probably right to be concerned that if they agree to a permanent ceasefire immediately there is no incentive for Hamas to negotiate laying down their arms and ceasing things like rocket attacks in the future.
If you think that Hamas shouldn't lay down their arms or stop attacks then, yes, obviously this sticking point is all on Israel. But if one takes that position then Israel really doesn't have any incentive to negotiate in the first place since they aren't going to accept a status quo ante situation where Hamas keeps attacking.
posted by Justinian at 12:10 AM on June 12 [2 favorites]
Maybe this is in there, I don't have the heart to go through much right now, but is there any guarantee that if Hamas did lay down their arms, Israel would be forced to deal fairly? To not execute huge swathes of the population, to not torture and kidnap? What are the mechanisms that then prevent mass population transfers?
That's what I don't understand. If nobody else will step in and ensure that the people of Palestine will *actually* be protected (No IDF self-investigations into alleged crimes for a start...), then, I don't know, I don't see how anyone who knows what the IDF has done could trust them at all.
and so, what then, Israel will just keep killing till the world loves them again? I know the point is there is no long-term plan, but I despair
posted by Audreynachrome at 5:37 AM on June 12 [9 favorites]
That's what I don't understand. If nobody else will step in and ensure that the people of Palestine will *actually* be protected (No IDF self-investigations into alleged crimes for a start...), then, I don't know, I don't see how anyone who knows what the IDF has done could trust them at all.
and so, what then, Israel will just keep killing till the world loves them again? I know the point is there is no long-term plan, but I despair
posted by Audreynachrome at 5:37 AM on June 12 [9 favorites]
If you think that Hamas shouldn't lay down their arms or stop attacks then, yes, obviously this sticking point is all on Israel.
Conflating “lay down their arms” with “stop attacks” is morally disingenuous. Of course both sides have to stop attacks in a ceasefire. Even with a permanent ceasefire, it is generally a given that attacks from one side violate the ceasefire and break the truce. It has been this way for thousands of years.
That’s different from saying “one side should unilaterally disarm while the other doesn’t.”
The force of arms and the right to field a military is generally accepted as one of the prerogatives of a state. Calling for Hamas to disarm is essentially saying “Israel has won, the Palestinians have no more right to leadership or a state in Gaza.”
posted by corb at 7:40 AM on June 12 [10 favorites]
Conflating “lay down their arms” with “stop attacks” is morally disingenuous. Of course both sides have to stop attacks in a ceasefire. Even with a permanent ceasefire, it is generally a given that attacks from one side violate the ceasefire and break the truce. It has been this way for thousands of years.
That’s different from saying “one side should unilaterally disarm while the other doesn’t.”
The force of arms and the right to field a military is generally accepted as one of the prerogatives of a state. Calling for Hamas to disarm is essentially saying “Israel has won, the Palestinians have no more right to leadership or a state in Gaza.”
posted by corb at 7:40 AM on June 12 [10 favorites]
@human ecologist, in case it matters I wasn't calling you out. I can't speak to the information you take in, I was just struck by the tone of that BBC item you shared
w/o these MeFi threads I'd be even more clueless, personally
posted by elkevelvet at 7:41 AM on June 12 [1 favorite]
w/o these MeFi threads I'd be even more clueless, personally
posted by elkevelvet at 7:41 AM on June 12 [1 favorite]
The US response isn't really helping, either. According to Blinken, Hamas has proposed "unworkable" changes to the ceasefire plan. Meanwhile, a Hamas official denies requesting amendments to proposed ceasefire deal.
Meanwhile, in the US, students are still being arrested for setting up encampments, the University of Minnesota has backtracked on potentially hiring an Israeli scholar of genocide for their Center for Holocaust and Genocide studies because he called what is happening in Gaza a "textbook case of genocide", Jamaal Bowman may lose his seat to primary challenger George Latimer, who has received funding and backing from AIPAC.
posted by toastyk at 8:33 AM on June 12 [9 favorites]
Meanwhile, in the US, students are still being arrested for setting up encampments, the University of Minnesota has backtracked on potentially hiring an Israeli scholar of genocide for their Center for Holocaust and Genocide studies because he called what is happening in Gaza a "textbook case of genocide", Jamaal Bowman may lose his seat to primary challenger George Latimer, who has received funding and backing from AIPAC.
posted by toastyk at 8:33 AM on June 12 [9 favorites]
According to Blinken, Hamas has proposed "unworkable" changes to the ceasefire plan. Meanwhile, a Hamas official denies requesting amendments to proposed ceasefire deal.
Any lie to shield Israel from blame, apparently (when anyone who actually follows what's going on from other sources than US mainstream media is aware that it's Netanyahu and the Israeli cabinet who are the roadblock).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 5:30 PM on June 12 [8 favorites]
Any lie to shield Israel from blame, apparently (when anyone who actually follows what's going on from other sources than US mainstream media is aware that it's Netanyahu and the Israeli cabinet who are the roadblock).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 5:30 PM on June 12 [8 favorites]
The NYTimes has, well, I'm not sure I'd call them more details but it expands on the ceasefire impasse at least and also gives some info on what's going on towards Lebanon and Hezbollah.
posted by Justinian at 10:25 PM on June 12
posted by Justinian at 10:25 PM on June 12
The fundamental problem here is that Israel has made very, very clear that regardless of any agreement they sign, they intend to continue attacking Gaza until Hamas' "military and governance capacities" are destroyed. This is an exact quote, although i can't pull a link right now becuase i'm about to go to bed.
"We are going to continue attacking until we achieve our goals" is, of course, completely incompatible with any reasonable meaning of the word "ceasefire", and it is entirely unsurprising that Hamas quite rationally refuses to give up their only remaining leverage without any assurances whatsoever that Israel won't go right back to massacring everyone afterward, given that Israel is repeatedly expressing that they plan to do exactly that.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:02 PM on June 12 [14 favorites]
"We are going to continue attacking until we achieve our goals" is, of course, completely incompatible with any reasonable meaning of the word "ceasefire", and it is entirely unsurprising that Hamas quite rationally refuses to give up their only remaining leverage without any assurances whatsoever that Israel won't go right back to massacring everyone afterward, given that Israel is repeatedly expressing that they plan to do exactly that.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:02 PM on June 12 [14 favorites]
I cannot tell you how weird it is, as an American, to see mainstream US media actually starting to report from the Palestinian point of view - and I'm also not sure what else there is left to say after news like this: "Abedelraof Meqdad says Israeli troops burst into his home, questioned his family at gunpoint, bound the men’s hands and shot two of his grandsons — one of whom, a 12-year-old, did not survive."
The latest episode of Mehdi Unfiltered (Mehdi Hasan, Substack) has an interview with Zahiro Shahar Mor, whose uncle remains a hostage of Hamas, and who wants a ceasefire, and with Palestinian Christian pastor Munther Isaac on what is currently happening in the West Bank:
On how Zahiro Shahar Mor feels about the Israeli government's actions: Betrayed. Betrayed. The way I see it, the Israeli government is being taken hostage by the die-hard right-wing extremist fundamentalists. And yes, we do have some fundamentalists in Israel's society. And the finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, is definitely one of them. And they are keeping the government from doing the right thing, and they are whipping their base on everything.
The pastor on whether there is apartheid: I have many South African friends, even evangelical South Africans who come to Palestine and all of them tell us the same thing. What you have is worse than apartheid.
posted by toastyk at 7:15 AM on June 13 [13 favorites]
The latest episode of Mehdi Unfiltered (Mehdi Hasan, Substack) has an interview with Zahiro Shahar Mor, whose uncle remains a hostage of Hamas, and who wants a ceasefire, and with Palestinian Christian pastor Munther Isaac on what is currently happening in the West Bank:
On how Zahiro Shahar Mor feels about the Israeli government's actions: Betrayed. Betrayed. The way I see it, the Israeli government is being taken hostage by the die-hard right-wing extremist fundamentalists. And yes, we do have some fundamentalists in Israel's society. And the finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, is definitely one of them. And they are keeping the government from doing the right thing, and they are whipping their base on everything.
The pastor on whether there is apartheid: I have many South African friends, even evangelical South Africans who come to Palestine and all of them tell us the same thing. What you have is worse than apartheid.
posted by toastyk at 7:15 AM on June 13 [13 favorites]
12 June— The UN independent Commission of Inquiry released a report that covers the period between October 7 and the end of last year. Al Jazeera article on the report and UN press release.
My notes:
Why does international law matter? Noura Erakat speaks with Owen Jones:
My notes:
- Israel's crimes against humanity include "extermination." How does this differ from genocide? Some legal context from the UN website:
In contrast with genocide, crimes against humanity do not need to target a specific group. Instead, the victim of the attack can be any civilian population, regardless of its affiliation or identity. Another important distinction is that in the case of crimes against humanity, it is not necessary to prove that there is an overall specific intent. It suffices for there to be a simple intent to commit any of the acts listed, with the exception of the act of persecution, which requires additional discriminatory intent. The perpetrator must also act with knowledge of the attack against the civilian population and that his/her action is part of that attack.
- Evidence indicates that forms of sexual and gender-based violence "are part of ISF [Israeli Security Forces] operating procedures," that certain types of abuse were "either ordered or condoned."
- There was evidence of sexual violence against Israeli women on October 7, but "the Commission did not find credible evidence [...] that militants received orders to commit sexual violence and so it was unable to make conclusions on this issue."
Why does international law matter? Noura Erakat speaks with Owen Jones:
Owen Jones: I spoke to a really brilliant academic from the postcolonial tradition. He talked about this idea of [paraphrasing], you can't take down the master's house with the master's tools. It's just something just really struck me what you just said, which he emphasized, that genocide is not a rare event in history. It's actually extremely common. It's actually how many states are forged.posted by i like crows very much at 5:21 AM on June 14 [10 favorites]
Noura Erakat: —how the West was forged.
Jones: Yeah, exactly. So you can't disentangle the structures of international law from the practice of genocide. It's taught to people as an aberration, but it isn't an aberration.
Erakat: Not even a little bit. It's so constitutive. [...] I think about a Palestinian struggle for Freedom as refracted through the relationship between law and power. In my narration, between 1917 and 2017, international law has done a lot more to serve Israel's interests than it has to serve Palestinians. I nonetheless conclude that we can use it strategically. In this moment, you often find me described as a human rights attorney on the one hand and on the other hand producing scholarship that's tearing apart all of these legal regimes for being forms of colonial oppression.
[...]
So what does that mean? You cited Audrey Lorde, the black feminist theorist, that we do not use the master's tools to dismantle the master's house. So this is really complicated. How do we as advocates, knowing full well that we live imbricated in the house that the master built, how do we dismantle it? Well, I don't think that there's only one way or the other. Disruption is absolutely central. Mass mobilization is absolutely central. To the extent that we use the law, we have to use it without any fidelity to the law. Think of it like the sail of a boat. You raise the sail when the winds are blowing in our favor. You draw the sail when they're blowing against us. And you create a new sail when necessary.
In this moment, I just want to to really lift up global mass movement. But for the millions of people out in the streets, even South Africa probably would not have brought this case before the ICJ. It is precisely because of the people. When you say I want to pick your brain as a legal mind, this becomes a specialized discussion that only lawyers can have. I like to push back and say absolutely not. Absolutely not. We end up disempowering the very people and the very vehicle that made visible that this was an instance of genocide. It wasn't lawyers that brought the charge. It was millions of people who brought the charge, that created the political environment that now made it possible to bring this case.
The night Israel killed my family - Reem A. Hamadaqa describes how an Israeli strike wiped out four generations of her family and almost killed her, too.
Hamze Awawde asks Who Protects Palestinians? - Waiting for Two States feels like waiting for the Messiah. Okay, okay, but when? And meanwhile, what?
Asking a civilization that is hemorrhaging – one whose civilians have no government whose primary concern is to protect them, and no place where they feel safe – to go about constructing a state is an exercise in make believe. It is so impossible, so outlandish a demand one can’t help but suspect that is not a serious one.
The Enduring and Racist Trope of Palestinian Rejectionism: It is important to underscore the dangerous message that policymakers and analysts alike are advancing here: By repeatedly peddling the false connection between the myth of Palestinian rejectionism, the rise of “extremism,” and the current assault on Gaza, blame is implicitly—or at times, explicitly—placed on Palestinians themselves for the genocide being waged against them.
We see a similar utilization of this trope during the coverage of negotiations with Hamas concerning a ceasefire and the possibility of a prisoner exchange. Despite Hamas signaling from early on in the war that it was open to negotiation and the release of hostages in exchange for prisoners, Netanyahu was adamantly against the idea. Still, whenever Israeli leaders reject a proposal by Hamas, they are framed as rational, making the decision due to a proposal’s unacceptable terms and threats to Israeli security and interests. When Hamas members reject Israeli proposals for failing to ensure a lasting ceasefire, their decision is positioned as a rejection of peace and desire to prolong the war, informed by ingrained bloodlust and antisemitism.
posted by toastyk at 8:14 AM on June 14 [14 favorites]
Hamze Awawde asks Who Protects Palestinians? - Waiting for Two States feels like waiting for the Messiah. Okay, okay, but when? And meanwhile, what?
Asking a civilization that is hemorrhaging – one whose civilians have no government whose primary concern is to protect them, and no place where they feel safe – to go about constructing a state is an exercise in make believe. It is so impossible, so outlandish a demand one can’t help but suspect that is not a serious one.
The Enduring and Racist Trope of Palestinian Rejectionism: It is important to underscore the dangerous message that policymakers and analysts alike are advancing here: By repeatedly peddling the false connection between the myth of Palestinian rejectionism, the rise of “extremism,” and the current assault on Gaza, blame is implicitly—or at times, explicitly—placed on Palestinians themselves for the genocide being waged against them.
We see a similar utilization of this trope during the coverage of negotiations with Hamas concerning a ceasefire and the possibility of a prisoner exchange. Despite Hamas signaling from early on in the war that it was open to negotiation and the release of hostages in exchange for prisoners, Netanyahu was adamantly against the idea. Still, whenever Israeli leaders reject a proposal by Hamas, they are framed as rational, making the decision due to a proposal’s unacceptable terms and threats to Israeli security and interests. When Hamas members reject Israeli proposals for failing to ensure a lasting ceasefire, their decision is positioned as a rejection of peace and desire to prolong the war, informed by ingrained bloodlust and antisemitism.
posted by toastyk at 8:14 AM on June 14 [14 favorites]
The news is slowing, if only because nothing is *new* anymore—Israel lies, blocks ceasefire, people die, resources dire, aid workers cry, babies expire.
posted by Audreynachrome at 4:11 AM on June 17 [4 favorites]
posted by Audreynachrome at 4:11 AM on June 17 [4 favorites]
Honestly it just feels like a war of attrition. It doesn’t change the fact that no matter what, things are still happening, people are still fighting. Of the things that have been happening: Netanyahu has dissolved his war cabinet, Israel’s government is looking to strengthen its Jewish settlements in the West Bank after several countries recognized a Palestinian state, AP has an investigation into the destruction of 60 Palestinian family lines in bombings in Gaza. 8 Israeli soldiers were killed in Gaza, in one of its “deadliest” incidents in the war.
Hundreds of students staged a pro-Palestinian walkout of their Stanford University graduation ceremony as the university president started his speech with “Don’t let your convictions shut out your ability to listen and learn.” Stanford University workers are also making the connection between speech and labor.
If anyone’s been waiting, the documentary Israelism is now available on streaming for rental or purchase. If you want to help Palestinians directly (aside from donating to aid organizations) there is Operation Olive Branch, which tracks GoFundMes for individual families who are trying to leave, survive, get care, food, etc.
posted by toastyk at 7:21 AM on June 17 [13 favorites]
Hundreds of students staged a pro-Palestinian walkout of their Stanford University graduation ceremony as the university president started his speech with “Don’t let your convictions shut out your ability to listen and learn.” Stanford University workers are also making the connection between speech and labor.
If anyone’s been waiting, the documentary Israelism is now available on streaming for rental or purchase. If you want to help Palestinians directly (aside from donating to aid organizations) there is Operation Olive Branch, which tracks GoFundMes for individual families who are trying to leave, survive, get care, food, etc.
posted by toastyk at 7:21 AM on June 17 [13 favorites]
And now an Israeli politician is quoting Hitler, in case we're not clear on the genocidal intent: "We are not guests in our country, this is our country, all of it..." Feiglin said, adding, "As Hitler said, 'I cannot live if one Jew is left.' We can't live here if one 'Islamo-Nazi' remains in Gaza."
posted by toastyk at 12:58 PM on June 17 [9 favorites]
posted by toastyk at 12:58 PM on June 17 [9 favorites]
jesus, he didn't even use the "say what you want about..."/"gotta hand it to..." constructions. just "as hitler said...".
posted by busted_crayons at 2:37 PM on June 17 [6 favorites]
posted by busted_crayons at 2:37 PM on June 17 [6 favorites]
Was This You?:
- did you object strenuously to the characterization of 'genocide' earlier this year?
- did you argue that any attempts to discuss Gaza as a colonial project was invalid, and take offence to any comparisons with S. African apartheid?
- did you repeatedly try to centre this on the antisemitism that is clearly the most urgent factor re: Gaza?
- have you been rushing to ask whether the body counts are accurate? Whether the targets may, possibly, be defensible? After all, we don't know where all those tunnels go and who knows what Hamas is capable of doing?
- oh and was it you who raised Godwin's Law and dismissed any comparison with Nazi Germany, because the Holocaust is some kind of unique tragedy which demands unending attention and cannot ever receive comparison?
Was This You?
where are you now
posted by elkevelvet at 3:01 PM on June 17 [13 favorites]
- did you object strenuously to the characterization of 'genocide' earlier this year?
- did you argue that any attempts to discuss Gaza as a colonial project was invalid, and take offence to any comparisons with S. African apartheid?
- did you repeatedly try to centre this on the antisemitism that is clearly the most urgent factor re: Gaza?
- have you been rushing to ask whether the body counts are accurate? Whether the targets may, possibly, be defensible? After all, we don't know where all those tunnels go and who knows what Hamas is capable of doing?
- oh and was it you who raised Godwin's Law and dismissed any comparison with Nazi Germany, because the Holocaust is some kind of unique tragedy which demands unending attention and cannot ever receive comparison?
Was This You?
where are you now
posted by elkevelvet at 3:01 PM on June 17 [13 favorites]
I swear to Christ don’t make me look up contemporary Holocaust denial in the US saying it can’t be as bad as the Jews say and the neutral news isn’t reporting anything nearly so bad and surely those numbers are inflated because before God I will.
posted by corb at 6:01 PM on June 17 [9 favorites]
posted by corb at 6:01 PM on June 17 [9 favorites]
Al-Jazeera: US says Hamas is to blame for ceasefire delay – but is it Hamas or Israel?
Hamas’s desire for more assurances when it comes to the latest ceasefire deal appears to be the result of a combination of self-preservation and a lack of trust in Israel’s adherence to the timetable set out.
Hamas is presenting its amendments to the ceasefire deal as merely a way to obtain reassurances that Israel will not simply abandon the deal after the first phase and continue the war.
AJ: Netanyahu opposed to Israeli military ‘tactical pauses’ for Gaza aid || MEE: Israel's Gaza attacks continue despite ‘tactical pauses’ claim, UNRWA chief says:
Rafah crossing departure hall destroyed
On Monday morning, Israeli forces set ablaze the departure hall of Rafah crossing, between the Gaza Strip and Egypt, according to local officials and media reports.
Pictures shared online, which were not verified by Middle East Eye, showed what appears to be the exterior of the crossing’s departure hall incinerated.
Damage to the crossing, the only non-Israeli exit point for Palestinians with the outside world, may make it inoperable in the near future, leaving Gaza's 2.2 million Palestinian population trapped inside.
ToI: Reports: Blinken promised Netanyahu US will remove limits on arms shipments to Israel
During their meeting last week in Israel, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken promised Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that Washington will in the coming days remove all restrictions on weapons transfers to the Jewish state, according to [unsourced] reports by Channel 12 news and Germany’s Bild.
Pair that with this earlier interview with Akbar Shahid Ahmad in the Jacobin: Joe Biden Still Won’t Say No to Israel: The United States is trying to do two things at once here. One could question that approach, given that it has so far failed at doing just one thing — namely, preventing a catastrophe and having this war achieve any of its goals, even with huge US enablement. In view of that failure, one could question why US government officials are trying to do two things, and yet they are.
They are trying to say, “we’re turning up the heat on Israel,” while simultaneously creating conditions so that if this falls apart, they can blame the Palestinians. They are creating those conditions by saying that the onus is on Hamas. That’s the up-front message, while we are also tacitly hearing the line that they’re being a little bit tough on Israel to accept something, because they know that Hamas was ready to accept it.
What I’m hearing, however, even from officials close to this plan, is that there’s not a lot of hope, because Biden is still not at a point where he would put teeth on this approach. For Israel, there are no clear consequences if it rejects the plan. Biden has not said he would cut off any form of aid. He has continued to say that if this falls apart, the Palestinians would be responsible.
The president isn’t willing to apply any stronger forms of pressure on Israel right now. Netanyahu, of course, is really determined to continue the war. He worries that if the war ends, he would have to leave office. But he’s also fundamentally a hard-liner who has made extreme promises of taking Hamas out of the equation and taking over Rafah, the remaining Palestinian enclave in Gaza. Netanyahu isn’t backing away either, so I’m not very optimistic at this point, although I wish I could be.
---
ToI: Israeli arms sales break record for 3rd year in row, reaching $13 billion in 2023 -
Defense Ministry says massive exports come as industries remain committed to Israeli war effort; air defense systems account for more than a third of sales || The Intercept: Israel’s New Air War in the West Bank: Nearly Half of the Dead are children - Nearly 20 years after the Second Intifada, the Israeli military has resumed airstrikes in the West Bank — and killed 24 children. || CNN: Israeli precision-guided munition likely killed group of children playing foosball in Gaza, weapons experts say -
CNN has pressed the Israeli military for details about the strike, which took place on April 16 at about 3:40 p.m., according to video evidence.
Two days after the strike, in response to CNN providing the time and coordinates for the attack, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said it struck a “terror target” in Al-Maghazi but declined to provide any additional details. An IDF spokesman said they were unaware of the number of casualties, but that the incident was under review and the military was working to locate the strike in its records.
Two weeks later – and three days after CNN shared its analysis of the strike in which the children were killed – the Israeli military said it did not have any record of it.
“The strike in question was carried out at a different time than described in the query, and was approved based on an accurate intelligence indication,” the Israeli military statement said, referring to CNN’s request for response. “The collateral damage as described in the query is not known to the IDF.”
But Palestinian journalists reporting in Al-Maghazi said there was no other airstrikes on that day. Metadata from videos filmed on two different iPhones in the immediate aftermath were timestamped at 3:40 p.m., the time CNN provided the IDF.
The Israeli military declined to provide any additional evidence to back up its claims. It also declined to answer questions regarding the nature of the target or whether any militants were killed.
The New Arab: Israeli settlers evict last two families from West Bank village
“We didn't leave; our homes were occupied," Khaled Ghneimat, the head of a family of nine, tells The New Arab. "We were with the sheep in the pastures, and when we returned, we found the settlers had taken over our houses and everything inside."
In the days leading up to their displacement, settlers had managed to seize five of his and his brother's sheep, but the two brothers chose not to resist fearing retaliation.
The persecution however, did not stop. Israeli settlers prevented them on several occasions from accessing pastures, stole solar panels from their homes, and obstructed their access to water sources, Khaled reveals.
“All the families were forced to leave and we were the last ones remaining," Khaled continues. "They’ve attacked and terrorised us for weeks. I sustained a broken rib ten days ago. These vengeful actions of the settlers are the new Nakba.”
Haaretz: How Far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir Took Over Israel's Police
"The minister is conducting a reign of terror over all of police brass," says a senior security official, a sentiment that is echoed by others in the upper ranks. "The police have been taken over by Ben-Gvir, which is devastating. "The police won't carry out the government's directives [and] are instead [fulfilling] the minister's whims according to his wishes."
Senior officers say the takeover of the police seems to have become the norm across all the country's security agencies, from the Shin Bet security agency and National Security Council to the Israel Police itself. Ben-Gvir speaks with officers on the ground, giving them backing for the use of force. He also talks to senior officers, including district commanders, bypassing Police Commissioner Kobi Shabtai in the process. Ben-Gvir may not be the country's top policeman on paper, but sources say that in practice, it's his force – in both senses of the word.
In the months since Ben-Gvir took office almost a year and a half ago, his influence on the police has kept growing, along with warnings about it to the country's political leaders. But on the ground, the warnings changed nothing.
[...] And sometimes, it works in reverse – not the enforcement of a law (existing or not), but a total lack of enforcement. A recent example is the case of trucks carrying humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip and their harassment by right-wing activists. "That's the best evidence of Ben-Gvir's ethos in the police," one senior security official said. "They did everything possible not to enact abide by an explicit national cabinet decision, and in the process, they've damaged national security, plain and simple," he said.
According to several sources, officers in the Southern District, where Maj. Gen. Amir Cohen is the commander, have deliberately dragged their feet on protecting the aid trucks. The sources say this has been the case since the beginning of the year, in coordination with the military.
Haaretz has learned that in February, in an unusual step, IDF Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Herzl Halevi's office sent a letter to the heads of the security establishment alleging that because of the police's conduct and the lenient handling of right-wing activists, many trucks have entered Gaza without inspection. The letter demanded that the police fulfill their responsibility as directed by the country's political leadership and not minimize the conduct of right-wing extremists.
Interesting then to see this today (note publication): (Saudi Gazette) Saudi Crown Prince calls for immediate global action to stop Israeli aggression on Gaza - not the Foreign Minister, not a proxy, but MBS, and during an Eid address at that. All those frequent fliers points being collected by Sullivan and Blinken must be really worth it.
Hope you guys had a good Eid.
posted by cendawanita at 2:45 AM on June 18 [14 favorites]
Hamas’s desire for more assurances when it comes to the latest ceasefire deal appears to be the result of a combination of self-preservation and a lack of trust in Israel’s adherence to the timetable set out.
Hamas is presenting its amendments to the ceasefire deal as merely a way to obtain reassurances that Israel will not simply abandon the deal after the first phase and continue the war.
AJ: Netanyahu opposed to Israeli military ‘tactical pauses’ for Gaza aid || MEE: Israel's Gaza attacks continue despite ‘tactical pauses’ claim, UNRWA chief says:
Rafah crossing departure hall destroyed
On Monday morning, Israeli forces set ablaze the departure hall of Rafah crossing, between the Gaza Strip and Egypt, according to local officials and media reports.
Pictures shared online, which were not verified by Middle East Eye, showed what appears to be the exterior of the crossing’s departure hall incinerated.
Damage to the crossing, the only non-Israeli exit point for Palestinians with the outside world, may make it inoperable in the near future, leaving Gaza's 2.2 million Palestinian population trapped inside.
ToI: Reports: Blinken promised Netanyahu US will remove limits on arms shipments to Israel
During their meeting last week in Israel, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken promised Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that Washington will in the coming days remove all restrictions on weapons transfers to the Jewish state, according to [unsourced] reports by Channel 12 news and Germany’s Bild.
Pair that with this earlier interview with Akbar Shahid Ahmad in the Jacobin: Joe Biden Still Won’t Say No to Israel: The United States is trying to do two things at once here. One could question that approach, given that it has so far failed at doing just one thing — namely, preventing a catastrophe and having this war achieve any of its goals, even with huge US enablement. In view of that failure, one could question why US government officials are trying to do two things, and yet they are.
They are trying to say, “we’re turning up the heat on Israel,” while simultaneously creating conditions so that if this falls apart, they can blame the Palestinians. They are creating those conditions by saying that the onus is on Hamas. That’s the up-front message, while we are also tacitly hearing the line that they’re being a little bit tough on Israel to accept something, because they know that Hamas was ready to accept it.
What I’m hearing, however, even from officials close to this plan, is that there’s not a lot of hope, because Biden is still not at a point where he would put teeth on this approach. For Israel, there are no clear consequences if it rejects the plan. Biden has not said he would cut off any form of aid. He has continued to say that if this falls apart, the Palestinians would be responsible.
The president isn’t willing to apply any stronger forms of pressure on Israel right now. Netanyahu, of course, is really determined to continue the war. He worries that if the war ends, he would have to leave office. But he’s also fundamentally a hard-liner who has made extreme promises of taking Hamas out of the equation and taking over Rafah, the remaining Palestinian enclave in Gaza. Netanyahu isn’t backing away either, so I’m not very optimistic at this point, although I wish I could be.
---
ToI: Israeli arms sales break record for 3rd year in row, reaching $13 billion in 2023 -
Defense Ministry says massive exports come as industries remain committed to Israeli war effort; air defense systems account for more than a third of sales || The Intercept: Israel’s New Air War in the West Bank: Nearly Half of the Dead are children - Nearly 20 years after the Second Intifada, the Israeli military has resumed airstrikes in the West Bank — and killed 24 children. || CNN: Israeli precision-guided munition likely killed group of children playing foosball in Gaza, weapons experts say -
CNN has pressed the Israeli military for details about the strike, which took place on April 16 at about 3:40 p.m., according to video evidence.
Two days after the strike, in response to CNN providing the time and coordinates for the attack, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said it struck a “terror target” in Al-Maghazi but declined to provide any additional details. An IDF spokesman said they were unaware of the number of casualties, but that the incident was under review and the military was working to locate the strike in its records.
Two weeks later – and three days after CNN shared its analysis of the strike in which the children were killed – the Israeli military said it did not have any record of it.
“The strike in question was carried out at a different time than described in the query, and was approved based on an accurate intelligence indication,” the Israeli military statement said, referring to CNN’s request for response. “The collateral damage as described in the query is not known to the IDF.”
But Palestinian journalists reporting in Al-Maghazi said there was no other airstrikes on that day. Metadata from videos filmed on two different iPhones in the immediate aftermath were timestamped at 3:40 p.m., the time CNN provided the IDF.
The Israeli military declined to provide any additional evidence to back up its claims. It also declined to answer questions regarding the nature of the target or whether any militants were killed.
The New Arab: Israeli settlers evict last two families from West Bank village
“We didn't leave; our homes were occupied," Khaled Ghneimat, the head of a family of nine, tells The New Arab. "We were with the sheep in the pastures, and when we returned, we found the settlers had taken over our houses and everything inside."
In the days leading up to their displacement, settlers had managed to seize five of his and his brother's sheep, but the two brothers chose not to resist fearing retaliation.
The persecution however, did not stop. Israeli settlers prevented them on several occasions from accessing pastures, stole solar panels from their homes, and obstructed their access to water sources, Khaled reveals.
“All the families were forced to leave and we were the last ones remaining," Khaled continues. "They’ve attacked and terrorised us for weeks. I sustained a broken rib ten days ago. These vengeful actions of the settlers are the new Nakba.”
Haaretz: How Far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir Took Over Israel's Police
"The minister is conducting a reign of terror over all of police brass," says a senior security official, a sentiment that is echoed by others in the upper ranks. "The police have been taken over by Ben-Gvir, which is devastating. "The police won't carry out the government's directives [and] are instead [fulfilling] the minister's whims according to his wishes."
Senior officers say the takeover of the police seems to have become the norm across all the country's security agencies, from the Shin Bet security agency and National Security Council to the Israel Police itself. Ben-Gvir speaks with officers on the ground, giving them backing for the use of force. He also talks to senior officers, including district commanders, bypassing Police Commissioner Kobi Shabtai in the process. Ben-Gvir may not be the country's top policeman on paper, but sources say that in practice, it's his force – in both senses of the word.
In the months since Ben-Gvir took office almost a year and a half ago, his influence on the police has kept growing, along with warnings about it to the country's political leaders. But on the ground, the warnings changed nothing.
[...] And sometimes, it works in reverse – not the enforcement of a law (existing or not), but a total lack of enforcement. A recent example is the case of trucks carrying humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip and their harassment by right-wing activists. "That's the best evidence of Ben-Gvir's ethos in the police," one senior security official said. "They did everything possible not to enact abide by an explicit national cabinet decision, and in the process, they've damaged national security, plain and simple," he said.
According to several sources, officers in the Southern District, where Maj. Gen. Amir Cohen is the commander, have deliberately dragged their feet on protecting the aid trucks. The sources say this has been the case since the beginning of the year, in coordination with the military.
Haaretz has learned that in February, in an unusual step, IDF Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Herzl Halevi's office sent a letter to the heads of the security establishment alleging that because of the police's conduct and the lenient handling of right-wing activists, many trucks have entered Gaza without inspection. The letter demanded that the police fulfill their responsibility as directed by the country's political leadership and not minimize the conduct of right-wing extremists.
Interesting then to see this today (note publication): (Saudi Gazette) Saudi Crown Prince calls for immediate global action to stop Israeli aggression on Gaza - not the Foreign Minister, not a proxy, but MBS, and during an Eid address at that. All those frequent fliers points being collected by Sullivan and Blinken must be really worth it.
Hope you guys had a good Eid.
posted by cendawanita at 2:45 AM on June 18 [14 favorites]
White House cancels a single meeting with Netanyahu over his video claiming that the US was withholding military aid.
What lemons and oranges prove about Israel's occupation (WAPO) (archive.is): Gaza’s orchards survived repeated onslaughts of Israeli soldiers and settlers, but it was Israel’s suffocating “security checks” that dealt the final blow to the industry. Today, orange and lemon trees no longer dot the countryside. An industry that could have served as a bedrock for Gaza’s economic development lies in tatters.
ADL faces Wikipedia ban over reliability concerns on Israel, antisemitism: Wikipedia’s editors have voted to declare the Anti-Defamation League “generally unreliable” on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, adding it to a list of banned and partially banned sources.
An overwhelming majority of editors involved in the debate about the ADL also voted to deem the organization unreliable on the topic of antisemitism, its core focus. A formal declaration on that count is expected next.
The decision about Israel-related citations, made last week, means that one of the most prominent and longstanding Jewish advocacy groups in the United States — and one historically seen as the leading U.S. authority on antisemitism — is now grouped together with the National Inquirer, Newsmax, and Occupy Democrats as a source of propaganda or misinformation in the eyes of the online encyclopedia.
Moreover, in a near consensus, dozens of Wikipedia editors involved in the discussion said they believe the ADL should not be cited for factual information on antisemitism as well because it acts primarily as a pro-Israel organization and tends to label legitimate criticism of Israel as antisemitism.
(I had to laugh at the near-consensus of Wikipedia editors. How often do you see that?)
Hezbollah airs drone footage showing alleged surveillance of Israel's Haifa port, IDF naval base (archive.is) - Israel's Foreign Minister responded, stating, "Nasrallah boasts today about filming the ports of Haifa, operated by international companies from China and India, and threatens to attack them."
He added, "We are very close to the moment of decision to change the rules against Hezbollah and Lebanon. In an all-out war, Hezbollah will be destroyed and Lebanon will be severely hit."
Muslim Brotherhood gives Hamas a foothold in Lebanon.
Thomas Friedman, stopped clock? American Leaders Should Debasing Themselves on Israel (archive.is) - No friend of Israel should participate in this circus. Israel needs a pragmatic centrist government that can lead it out of this multifaceted crisis — and seize the offer of normalization with Saudi Arabia that Biden has been able to engineer. This can come about only by removing Netanyahu through a new election — as the Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, bravely called for in March. Israel does not need a U.S.-sponsored booze party for its drunken driver.
You wonder if the “friends” of Israel have any clue about the nature of its government. This government is not your grandfather’s Israel and this Bibi is not even the old Bibi.
A few people that I've been following on Bluesky for news/analysis: Rima Anabtawi, Layla, Yair Wallach, who recently linked to a poll from Hebrew University showing 73% support protests for ceasefire + hostage return deal.
41% support protests calling to stop the war (59% oppose). (The poll is in Hebrew and I don't see an English translation floating around.)
posted by toastyk at 7:46 AM on June 19 [10 favorites]
What lemons and oranges prove about Israel's occupation (WAPO) (archive.is): Gaza’s orchards survived repeated onslaughts of Israeli soldiers and settlers, but it was Israel’s suffocating “security checks” that dealt the final blow to the industry. Today, orange and lemon trees no longer dot the countryside. An industry that could have served as a bedrock for Gaza’s economic development lies in tatters.
ADL faces Wikipedia ban over reliability concerns on Israel, antisemitism: Wikipedia’s editors have voted to declare the Anti-Defamation League “generally unreliable” on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, adding it to a list of banned and partially banned sources.
An overwhelming majority of editors involved in the debate about the ADL also voted to deem the organization unreliable on the topic of antisemitism, its core focus. A formal declaration on that count is expected next.
The decision about Israel-related citations, made last week, means that one of the most prominent and longstanding Jewish advocacy groups in the United States — and one historically seen as the leading U.S. authority on antisemitism — is now grouped together with the National Inquirer, Newsmax, and Occupy Democrats as a source of propaganda or misinformation in the eyes of the online encyclopedia.
Moreover, in a near consensus, dozens of Wikipedia editors involved in the discussion said they believe the ADL should not be cited for factual information on antisemitism as well because it acts primarily as a pro-Israel organization and tends to label legitimate criticism of Israel as antisemitism.
(I had to laugh at the near-consensus of Wikipedia editors. How often do you see that?)
Hezbollah airs drone footage showing alleged surveillance of Israel's Haifa port, IDF naval base (archive.is) - Israel's Foreign Minister responded, stating, "Nasrallah boasts today about filming the ports of Haifa, operated by international companies from China and India, and threatens to attack them."
He added, "We are very close to the moment of decision to change the rules against Hezbollah and Lebanon. In an all-out war, Hezbollah will be destroyed and Lebanon will be severely hit."
Muslim Brotherhood gives Hamas a foothold in Lebanon.
Thomas Friedman, stopped clock? American Leaders Should Debasing Themselves on Israel (archive.is) - No friend of Israel should participate in this circus. Israel needs a pragmatic centrist government that can lead it out of this multifaceted crisis — and seize the offer of normalization with Saudi Arabia that Biden has been able to engineer. This can come about only by removing Netanyahu through a new election — as the Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, bravely called for in March. Israel does not need a U.S.-sponsored booze party for its drunken driver.
You wonder if the “friends” of Israel have any clue about the nature of its government. This government is not your grandfather’s Israel and this Bibi is not even the old Bibi.
A few people that I've been following on Bluesky for news/analysis: Rima Anabtawi, Layla, Yair Wallach, who recently linked to a poll from Hebrew University showing 73% support protests for ceasefire + hostage return deal.
41% support protests calling to stop the war (59% oppose). (The poll is in Hebrew and I don't see an English translation floating around.)
posted by toastyk at 7:46 AM on June 19 [10 favorites]
Oops, I missed a word on the Thomas Friedman link - it should say American Leaders Should Stop Debasing Themselves on Israel.
posted by toastyk at 9:19 AM on June 19
posted by toastyk at 9:19 AM on June 19
A good, very grim piece in the Baffler about some of the underpinnings of the dehumanization taking place both now and since the founding of Israel: Running Amok by Mary Turfah.
posted by sagc at 10:10 AM on June 19 [7 favorites]
posted by sagc at 10:10 AM on June 19 [7 favorites]
'A slow death': Gazans live alongside rotting rubbish and rodents
I just find it striking that this consistently appears to be the end-game for all non-white peoples in this species -- and yet we still can't say this out loud, can we? We still can't summon the balls to actually just say and admit it. This is no different than what Canadians continue to do to Indigenous populations isolated on reserves drawn out by British Imperialists. It's no different than what was done to the many invisible populations who endured the brown-washing of "ending slavery" [and who continue to exist invisibly in "modern society"]. It's no different than what seems to play out [almost] every time white-skinned people come into our colored-as-sh*t lives to "save" us.
(I say this as someone who was forced to live in raw sewage by my white-skinned [as well as not-so-white skinned but definitely white-caste subscribing] Canadian rapists/relatives/whatever; this circumstance in combination with an attempted assault forced me to flee directly into homelessness for a few years. Listening to how [many] Americans and [many] Israelis sound when talking about their ongoing state of victimhood at the hands of the savage primitives who have the audacity to not go extinct yet... it sounds pretty much the same as the alcoholic discharges made by Canadian white-skinned people whose domestic permission-to-hate I have already survived. People who are "Great" Don't Need to Rape. It really should be that simple, but instead hey, climate change and our species' slow-burning incest heat death is just easier to let happen, amiyte?) No one actually protects Palestinians just like no one actually protects anyone in this species except for the white-caste subscribers; the rest of us just need to accept that that's the order of things and transgenerationally continue to take it.
@elkevelet: I strongly agree, the BBC's tone is often appallingly tone deaf to actual horrific things happening "in the Empire"/World/whatever reality it is they think they're entitled to. Imagine how it is listening to the Canadian watered down version of it, i.e. the CBC. That said, the CBC National does actually do its job, compared to say, Fox News.
Putin and Kim pledge mutual help against 'aggression'
What happened -- did Netanyahu's invitation get lost in the mail?
posted by human ecologist at 11:09 AM on June 19 [6 favorites]
I just find it striking that this consistently appears to be the end-game for all non-white peoples in this species -- and yet we still can't say this out loud, can we? We still can't summon the balls to actually just say and admit it. This is no different than what Canadians continue to do to Indigenous populations isolated on reserves drawn out by British Imperialists. It's no different than what was done to the many invisible populations who endured the brown-washing of "ending slavery" [and who continue to exist invisibly in "modern society"]. It's no different than what seems to play out [almost] every time white-skinned people come into our colored-as-sh*t lives to "save" us.
(I say this as someone who was forced to live in raw sewage by my white-skinned [as well as not-so-white skinned but definitely white-caste subscribing] Canadian rapists/relatives/whatever; this circumstance in combination with an attempted assault forced me to flee directly into homelessness for a few years. Listening to how [many] Americans and [many] Israelis sound when talking about their ongoing state of victimhood at the hands of the savage primitives who have the audacity to not go extinct yet... it sounds pretty much the same as the alcoholic discharges made by Canadian white-skinned people whose domestic permission-to-hate I have already survived. People who are "Great" Don't Need to Rape. It really should be that simple, but instead hey, climate change and our species' slow-burning incest heat death is just easier to let happen, amiyte?) No one actually protects Palestinians just like no one actually protects anyone in this species except for the white-caste subscribers; the rest of us just need to accept that that's the order of things and transgenerationally continue to take it.
@elkevelet: I strongly agree, the BBC's tone is often appallingly tone deaf to actual horrific things happening "in the Empire"/World/whatever reality it is they think they're entitled to. Imagine how it is listening to the Canadian watered down version of it, i.e. the CBC. That said, the CBC National does actually do its job, compared to say, Fox News.
Putin and Kim pledge mutual help against 'aggression'
What happened -- did Netanyahu's invitation get lost in the mail?
posted by human ecologist at 11:09 AM on June 19 [6 favorites]
Warning, the links I'm posting may be very triggering, even for this thread:
Zeteo (Mehdi Hasan's media outlet on Substack) has posted a trailer for their new documentary called Israel's Reel Extremism, which focuses on current events through the eyes of Israeli society and especially its viral social media posts and interviews with the IDF soldiers who post them. I had a hard time even watching this small bit of a trailer, so just prepare yourself.
Al-Jazeera has posted a full documentary following 3 families trying to survive in Gaza. (I have not watched it yet as it was just posted today. It's called "The Night Won't End". Spencer Ackerman had this to say about it: Through screens, because Israel has kept journalists out of Gaza except for propaganda tours, we have seen for nine horrific months the eyes of men, women and children trying to survive a genocide. The nature of social media is such that we see them for a few minutes—sometimes less than that—before moving on. If those moments are raindrops, "The Night Won't End" is a flood. We are caught in its uncontrollable waters with the families whom the documentary follows. In moments of peril, we, particularly those of us who don't speak more than a few words of Arabic, naturally look to what the eyes are trying to communicate. And I recognize the looks in the eyes of Gazans today.
posted by toastyk at 8:43 AM on June 21 [9 favorites]
Zeteo (Mehdi Hasan's media outlet on Substack) has posted a trailer for their new documentary called Israel's Reel Extremism, which focuses on current events through the eyes of Israeli society and especially its viral social media posts and interviews with the IDF soldiers who post them. I had a hard time even watching this small bit of a trailer, so just prepare yourself.
Al-Jazeera has posted a full documentary following 3 families trying to survive in Gaza. (I have not watched it yet as it was just posted today. It's called "The Night Won't End". Spencer Ackerman had this to say about it: Through screens, because Israel has kept journalists out of Gaza except for propaganda tours, we have seen for nine horrific months the eyes of men, women and children trying to survive a genocide. The nature of social media is such that we see them for a few minutes—sometimes less than that—before moving on. If those moments are raindrops, "The Night Won't End" is a flood. We are caught in its uncontrollable waters with the families whom the documentary follows. In moments of peril, we, particularly those of us who don't speak more than a few words of Arabic, naturally look to what the eyes are trying to communicate. And I recognize the looks in the eyes of Gazans today.
posted by toastyk at 8:43 AM on June 21 [9 favorites]
“Hunger-Time,” Alma Igra, Los Angeles Review of Books, 16 June 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 7:28 PM on June 21 [2 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 7:28 PM on June 21 [2 favorites]
I feel like I'm going to explode or something:
US offers assurances to Israel in event of full-blown war with Hezbollah. Also the US is concerned that Israel's Iron Dome would be overwhelmed in war with Hezbollah.
LA DA George Gascon has declined to file charges for the 18 year old who was filmed beating pro-Palestinian protesters at UCLA and has referred the case to the City Attorney's office for misdemeanor consideration.
Forensic Architecture has published their investigation of what happened to six year old Hind Rajab and her 6 relatives.
AIPAC is spending a record $14.5 million to defeat Jamaal Bowman in the Democratic primary. (archive.is)
BTW that Israeli professor who said Israel was committing a textbook case of genocide had his job offer rescinded.
posted by toastyk at 8:29 PM on June 21 [11 favorites]
US offers assurances to Israel in event of full-blown war with Hezbollah. Also the US is concerned that Israel's Iron Dome would be overwhelmed in war with Hezbollah.
LA DA George Gascon has declined to file charges for the 18 year old who was filmed beating pro-Palestinian protesters at UCLA and has referred the case to the City Attorney's office for misdemeanor consideration.
Forensic Architecture has published their investigation of what happened to six year old Hind Rajab and her 6 relatives.
AIPAC is spending a record $14.5 million to defeat Jamaal Bowman in the Democratic primary. (archive.is)
BTW that Israeli professor who said Israel was committing a textbook case of genocide had his job offer rescinded.
posted by toastyk at 8:29 PM on June 21 [11 favorites]
Israeli army strapped wounded Palestinian to jeep (BBC article, with photos; be warned)
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:36 PM on June 22 [7 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:36 PM on June 22 [7 favorites]
In the article, they claim they did it to seek medical aid for him, but it sounds an awful lot like what we've heard before about the IDF and using literal human shields, as opposed to just fighting amongst a civilian population.
posted by Audreynachrome at 12:32 AM on June 23 [3 favorites]
posted by Audreynachrome at 12:32 AM on June 23 [3 favorites]
CAIR-Texas calls for hate crime probe of alleged murder attempt targeting two Muslim/Palestinian children in Euless: This woman tried to DROWN A 3 YEAR OLD:
The mother reported jumping into the pool to save her children. According to the mother, her 6-year-old-son was able to escape, but her petite 3-year-old daughter was unable. The alleged attacker snatched off the mother’s head scarf and used it to beat the mother as well as kicking her to keep her away while forcing her daughter’s head underwater.
Mrs. H stated that an African American man helped rescue her daughter from the attacker and more people gathered and witnessed. Cuffed and taken away by the police officer, the attacker reportedly shouted to a bystander woman who was calming the mother down “Tell her I will kill her, and I will kill her whole family.”
posted by toastyk at 7:33 AM on June 23 [9 favorites]
The mother reported jumping into the pool to save her children. According to the mother, her 6-year-old-son was able to escape, but her petite 3-year-old daughter was unable. The alleged attacker snatched off the mother’s head scarf and used it to beat the mother as well as kicking her to keep her away while forcing her daughter’s head underwater.
Mrs. H stated that an African American man helped rescue her daughter from the attacker and more people gathered and witnessed. Cuffed and taken away by the police officer, the attacker reportedly shouted to a bystander woman who was calming the mother down “Tell her I will kill her, and I will kill her whole family.”
posted by toastyk at 7:33 AM on June 23 [9 favorites]
God, is that heartbreaking. And of course a Black man in Texas was the one to jump in to save her, because while others watched in horror, he had reason to know full well it was a sirens blaring emergency, and that a white woman was absolutely capable of killing a child, not just scaring them, just because they were perceived as different. Thank fuck he was there and that baby isn’t dead.
posted by corb at 10:11 AM on June 23 [8 favorites]
posted by corb at 10:11 AM on June 23 [8 favorites]
Meanwhile, Yahya Sinwar has denied making statements about "necessary sacrifice" that were printed in a recent WSJ story about Hamas (that's an archive link).
The lead reporter on the article, Summer Said, was allowed to resign in lieu of firing from Reuters a few years ago for fabricating stories, per his former editor.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:49 PM on June 23 [4 favorites]
The lead reporter on the article, Summer Said, was allowed to resign in lieu of firing from Reuters a few years ago for fabricating stories, per his former editor.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:49 PM on June 23 [4 favorites]
I should note for balance that Said disputes his former editor's account of events.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:52 PM on June 23 [2 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:52 PM on June 23 [2 favorites]
Israel Opposes Rebuilding Gaza’s Internet Access Because Terrorists Could Go Online (The Intercept)
Israel, for its part, had blasted the proposal as a whole. Israel’s ITU delegate described it as “a resolution that while seemingly benign in its intent to rebuild telecommunications infrastructure, distorts the reality of the ongoing situation in Gaza,” according to a recording of the session reviewed by The Intercept. The delegate further argued the resolution does not address that Hamas has used the internet “to prepare acts of terror against Israel’s civilians,” and that any rebuilding effort must include unspecified “safeguards” that would prevent the potential use of the internet for terrorism.posted by adrienneleigh at 8:31 PM on June 23 [5 favorites]
“Based on this rationale, Gaza will never have internet,” Marwa Fatafta, a policy adviser with the digital rights group Access Now, told The Intercept, adding that Israel’s position is not only incoherent but inherently disproportionate. “You can’t punish the entire civilian population just because you have fears of one Palestinian faction.”
The Israeli Ministry of Communications did not respond to a request for comment.
A tiktok monologue that captures the zeitgeist of watching the horrors in Gaza right now, imho
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 2:36 AM on June 24 [4 favorites]
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 2:36 AM on June 24 [4 favorites]
Apparently these protests at a synagogue that resulted in violence and condemnations of anti-semitism from all our favorite political leaders are because they hosted an Israeli real estate fair that included selling land in the West Bank. The context is not mentioned at all in the mainstream news article.
posted by toastyk at 10:58 AM on June 24 [8 favorites]
posted by toastyk at 10:58 AM on June 24 [8 favorites]
if your place of worship is going to host a real estate fair for stolen land, then you're fair game for the attention of people who feel that is shitty
also, if Jesus of Nazareth was around today then the stories about him would suggest he'd be flipping those tables over in wrathful disapproval
posted by elkevelvet at 12:10 PM on June 24 [8 favorites]
also, if Jesus of Nazareth was around today then the stories about him would suggest he'd be flipping those tables over in wrathful disapproval
posted by elkevelvet at 12:10 PM on June 24 [8 favorites]
I don't think the congregants of a synagogue would have very much interest in what Jesus of Nazareth would or wouldn't do.
posted by kickingtheground at 12:58 PM on June 24 [1 favorite]
posted by kickingtheground at 12:58 PM on June 24 [1 favorite]
CNN has the context, NYT writeup did not. There may be further confusion as apparently there are multiple Israeli real estate companies with similar names that may or or may not have been the particular one selling real estate in the West Bank.
posted by toastyk at 2:51 PM on June 24 [3 favorites]
posted by toastyk at 2:51 PM on June 24 [3 favorites]
Israeli far-right minister speaks of effort to annex West Bank
Speaking after the transfer of powers was disclosed, Michael Sfard, an Israeli human rights lawyer, said: “The bottom line is that [for] anyone who thought the question of annexation was foggy, this order should end any doubts.”
posted by lalochezia at 2:56 PM on June 24 [4 favorites]
Speaking after the transfer of powers was disclosed, Michael Sfard, an Israeli human rights lawyer, said: “The bottom line is that [for] anyone who thought the question of annexation was foggy, this order should end any doubts.”
posted by lalochezia at 2:56 PM on June 24 [4 favorites]
'There was no sales for anything in the West Bank, anything on disputed territory," she said, noting the projects on offer were being built on "existing" and "established" areas.'
I feel like if you can't say, "This land is in Israel" and have to dance around where it is with words evoking semi-recent settlement like "existing" and "established", no one is going to be supportive of where the land actually is.
posted by Slackermagee at 3:07 PM on June 24 [7 favorites]
I feel like if you can't say, "This land is in Israel" and have to dance around where it is with words evoking semi-recent settlement like "existing" and "established", no one is going to be supportive of where the land actually is.
posted by Slackermagee at 3:07 PM on June 24 [7 favorites]
Mod note: One comment removed. Avoid inappropriate content, like anti semitic tropes, such as "jews killed jesus". Continuing to do so may result in ban.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:34 AM on June 25 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:34 AM on June 25 [2 favorites]
As a result of pro-Palestinian "anti-Semitic" protests, LA mayor Karen Bass is calling for a mask ban at protests. Here's the contact page for her office.
This story is in Hebrew, but the Google Translate function seems to work just fine - multiple IDF reservists tell why they would refuse to serve again in Gaza, even if they were paid for it.
Yuval Green was required to burn residences that soldiers had left, without convincing reasoning. Michael Ofer Ziv realized how many civilians could be killed in every bomb he watched. And Tal Vardi was broken when Israel entered Rafah instead of signing a deal.
posted by toastyk at 7:29 AM on June 25 [7 favorites]
This story is in Hebrew, but the Google Translate function seems to work just fine - multiple IDF reservists tell why they would refuse to serve again in Gaza, even if they were paid for it.
Yuval Green was required to burn residences that soldiers had left, without convincing reasoning. Michael Ofer Ziv realized how many civilians could be killed in every bomb he watched. And Tal Vardi was broken when Israel entered Rafah instead of signing a deal.
posted by toastyk at 7:29 AM on June 25 [7 favorites]
Israel's high court orders the army to draft ultra-Orthodox men, rattling Netanyahu's government
Must have been up for a whole of ~15min. Very surprised I was still able to find it afterwards, after it had been removed from the main website. Yup that's some fine, fine ethical news reporting we've got going on here up in the Great White North.
posted by human ecologist at 9:40 AM on June 25 [2 favorites]
Must have been up for a whole of ~15min. Very surprised I was still able to find it afterwards, after it had been removed from the main website. Yup that's some fine, fine ethical news reporting we've got going on here up in the Great White North.
posted by human ecologist at 9:40 AM on June 25 [2 favorites]
The Palestinian man who was tied to an Israeli army jeep gives his account of what happened:
After a couple of hours, Israeli soldiers found him. He says they struck his head and face and in the areas where he had been shot. Then they dragged him by his legs, lifted him by his hands and feet and threw him onto the hood of the military jeep.
“I screamed because of the heat,” he said. “Then, one of the soldiers started cursing at me and told me to be quiet.”
The military said its forces had tied Abadi to the hood of the jeep to transport him to paramedics.
But Nebal Farsakh, a spokesperson for the Palestinian Red Crescent rescue service, said the army had sealed off the area and prevented paramedics from tending to the wounded for at least an hour.
Apologies to be linking to Mehdi Hasan all the time, but I found this interview with Congressman Dean Phillips (that former presidential candidate) really compelling, as he grills Phillips about why Palestinian lives aren't equivalent to Israeli lives.
Wikipiedia rebuffs Jewish groups' calls to override editors on ADL trustworthiness: The move by Wikipedia, one of the world’s most visited websites and most popular sources of information, to declare that the ADL cannot be trusted on some topics represents a staggering blow to the organization.
If the Wikimedia Foundation were to order a reversal of the ADL’s downgrading, it would be equally staggering. The foundation does not intervene in editorial decisions by its community of editors, opting to trust the elaborate processes it has developed to seek consensus and resolve disputes. A reversal would in all likelihood garner a backlash from among the thousands of veteran editors, who are accustomed to autonomy and who have volunteered countless hours of their lives to run the online encyclopedia.
Protesters gathered outside the Knesset in Jerusalem, demanding the Israeli government sign a deal for the return of the hostages: “Practically speaking, the war is over. There are no more excuses. There's only one thing they aren’t dealing with, and that's the hostages,” Levy said.
Also on Wednesday, family members urged Prime Minister Netanyahu to pledge his full support to a deal presented by US President Joe Biden to bring the hostages home, during a press conference held by the Hostage Family Forum.
“I can't stop the thought that I might already be a grandmother. There is a possibility I already am one,” Orly Gilboa, the mother of hostage Daniela Gilboa, said.
The day after plan for Gaza on Israeli leaders' desks:
The new narrative created for the Palestinians in Gaza would “lean on Sunni Muslim Arab tradition … in its moderate versions in education and culture and grant the Palestinians a concrete, positive vision to latch onto for demilitarized Palestinian self-rule at the end of the process.”
“It would be very bad for Israel to do that directly,” Barak-Corren said on Senor’s podcast, and suggested that the UAE, Saudi Arabia or Egypt be involved.
The paper discourages Israel’s leadership from setting a goal of democratization for Gaza, saying that this is “a move that has failed in every place it was tried in the Arab world. The goal should not be turning Gaza into a Western democracy, but an Arab-Muslim entity that is moderate and not jihadist.”
posted by toastyk at 8:15 AM on June 26 [7 favorites]
After a couple of hours, Israeli soldiers found him. He says they struck his head and face and in the areas where he had been shot. Then they dragged him by his legs, lifted him by his hands and feet and threw him onto the hood of the military jeep.
“I screamed because of the heat,” he said. “Then, one of the soldiers started cursing at me and told me to be quiet.”
The military said its forces had tied Abadi to the hood of the jeep to transport him to paramedics.
But Nebal Farsakh, a spokesperson for the Palestinian Red Crescent rescue service, said the army had sealed off the area and prevented paramedics from tending to the wounded for at least an hour.
Apologies to be linking to Mehdi Hasan all the time, but I found this interview with Congressman Dean Phillips (that former presidential candidate) really compelling, as he grills Phillips about why Palestinian lives aren't equivalent to Israeli lives.
Wikipiedia rebuffs Jewish groups' calls to override editors on ADL trustworthiness: The move by Wikipedia, one of the world’s most visited websites and most popular sources of information, to declare that the ADL cannot be trusted on some topics represents a staggering blow to the organization.
If the Wikimedia Foundation were to order a reversal of the ADL’s downgrading, it would be equally staggering. The foundation does not intervene in editorial decisions by its community of editors, opting to trust the elaborate processes it has developed to seek consensus and resolve disputes. A reversal would in all likelihood garner a backlash from among the thousands of veteran editors, who are accustomed to autonomy and who have volunteered countless hours of their lives to run the online encyclopedia.
Protesters gathered outside the Knesset in Jerusalem, demanding the Israeli government sign a deal for the return of the hostages: “Practically speaking, the war is over. There are no more excuses. There's only one thing they aren’t dealing with, and that's the hostages,” Levy said.
Also on Wednesday, family members urged Prime Minister Netanyahu to pledge his full support to a deal presented by US President Joe Biden to bring the hostages home, during a press conference held by the Hostage Family Forum.
“I can't stop the thought that I might already be a grandmother. There is a possibility I already am one,” Orly Gilboa, the mother of hostage Daniela Gilboa, said.
The day after plan for Gaza on Israeli leaders' desks:
The new narrative created for the Palestinians in Gaza would “lean on Sunni Muslim Arab tradition … in its moderate versions in education and culture and grant the Palestinians a concrete, positive vision to latch onto for demilitarized Palestinian self-rule at the end of the process.”
“It would be very bad for Israel to do that directly,” Barak-Corren said on Senor’s podcast, and suggested that the UAE, Saudi Arabia or Egypt be involved.
The paper discourages Israel’s leadership from setting a goal of democratization for Gaza, saying that this is “a move that has failed in every place it was tried in the Arab world. The goal should not be turning Gaza into a Western democracy, but an Arab-Muslim entity that is moderate and not jihadist.”
posted by toastyk at 8:15 AM on June 26 [7 favorites]
... a concrete, positive vision to latch onto for demilitarized Palestinian self-rule
That is, still not a state or anything like one.
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:07 PM on June 26 [5 favorites]
That is, still not a state or anything like one.
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:07 PM on June 26 [5 favorites]
NYT gift link: We Are Israelis Calling on Congress to Disinvite Netanyahu - Inviting Mr. Netanyahu will reward his contempt for U.S. efforts to establish a peace plan, allow more aid to the beleaguered people of Gaza and do a better job of sparing civilians. Time and again, he has rejected President Biden’s plan to remove Hamas from power in Gaza through the establishment of a peacekeeping force. Such a move would very likely bring in its wake a far broader regional alliance, including a vision to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which is not only in Israel’s interest but also in the interest of both political parties in the United States. Mr. Netanyahu constitutes the main obstacle to these outcomes.
The man who will address Congress next month has failed to assume responsibility for the blunders that allowed the Hamas assault, initially blaming security chiefs (then quickly backtracking), and has yet to announce the establishment of a direly needed state commission of inquiry headed by a Supreme Court judge to look into the fiasco.
Despite the fierce fighting in Gaza and daily casualties on both sides, following Hamas’s terrible attacks on Oct. 7, Mr. Netanyahu continues to push forward with the authoritarian remaking of Israel as if nothing has changed. The Israeli police force, under the command of the far-right-wing security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, has cracked down violently on demonstrators. The appointments of court judges and a Supreme Court president remain on hold. Central scientific and cultural institutions continue to endure governmental attempts at political control. Large sums of money have been channeled recklessly to the ultra-Orthodox, who by and large do not share the economic and security burden of Israel’s citizens, especially by remaining exempt from serving in the military. Tuesday’s Supreme Court ruling overturning the exemption is a step forward, although the practical impact is unclear, given that Mr. Netanyahu has proposed enshrining the exemption in a law.
Signed by: By David Harel, Tamir Pardo, Talia Sasson, Ehud Barak, Aaron Ciechanover and David Grossman
Mr. Harel is the president of the Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities. Mr. Pardo is a former director of Mossad, Israel’s foreign intelligence service. Ms. Sasson is a former director of the special tasks department in Israel’s State Attorney’s Office. Mr. Barak is a former prime minister of Israel. Mr. Ciechanover received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 2004. Mr. Grossman is a novelist and essayist.
posted by toastyk at 7:14 AM on June 27 [5 favorites]
The man who will address Congress next month has failed to assume responsibility for the blunders that allowed the Hamas assault, initially blaming security chiefs (then quickly backtracking), and has yet to announce the establishment of a direly needed state commission of inquiry headed by a Supreme Court judge to look into the fiasco.
Despite the fierce fighting in Gaza and daily casualties on both sides, following Hamas’s terrible attacks on Oct. 7, Mr. Netanyahu continues to push forward with the authoritarian remaking of Israel as if nothing has changed. The Israeli police force, under the command of the far-right-wing security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, has cracked down violently on demonstrators. The appointments of court judges and a Supreme Court president remain on hold. Central scientific and cultural institutions continue to endure governmental attempts at political control. Large sums of money have been channeled recklessly to the ultra-Orthodox, who by and large do not share the economic and security burden of Israel’s citizens, especially by remaining exempt from serving in the military. Tuesday’s Supreme Court ruling overturning the exemption is a step forward, although the practical impact is unclear, given that Mr. Netanyahu has proposed enshrining the exemption in a law.
Signed by: By David Harel, Tamir Pardo, Talia Sasson, Ehud Barak, Aaron Ciechanover and David Grossman
Mr. Harel is the president of the Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities. Mr. Pardo is a former director of Mossad, Israel’s foreign intelligence service. Ms. Sasson is a former director of the special tasks department in Israel’s State Attorney’s Office. Mr. Barak is a former prime minister of Israel. Mr. Ciechanover received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 2004. Mr. Grossman is a novelist and essayist.
posted by toastyk at 7:14 AM on June 27 [5 favorites]
A report on Israeli public television shows Palestinians protesting against Hamas and demanding an end to the war.
posted by interogative mood at 12:07 PM on June 27
posted by interogative mood at 12:07 PM on June 27
House of Reps voted to bar the State Department from using funds to cite how many Palestinians were killed by Israel in Gaza.
Democratic leaders and Jewish civil rights groups such as the ADL push for a mask ban in NYC with a social media campaign called #unmaskhate.
Other groups are pushing back.
Israel is now also on the brink of war with Lebanon.
Trump called Biden a "weak Palestinian" at the Presidential debate.
posted by toastyk at 8:16 AM on June 28 [8 favorites]
Democratic leaders and Jewish civil rights groups such as the ADL push for a mask ban in NYC with a social media campaign called #unmaskhate.
Other groups are pushing back.
Israel is now also on the brink of war with Lebanon.
Trump called Biden a "weak Palestinian" at the Presidential debate.
posted by toastyk at 8:16 AM on June 28 [8 favorites]
Moroccan man sentenced to death for fighting for Ukraine
(As a followup to Russia destroys bridge over Ukrainian river, cutting escape route -- Canada really hasn't been reporting much on Gaza, and it certainly isn't updating us as to this man's death sentence some 2 years later.)
This is happening, really? Can someone please brownsplain to me why this needs to happen? It can be via private Mefi mail, if here is not safe or appropriate to share.
Israel conscription rule stokes ultra-Orthodox fury
Right, so now we get to the heart of it... the two-tier system of citizenship that seems to typify "organized" religion. The above-humen vs the below-humen. The pure vs the impure (arguably I thought one of the tenets of a fine, fine religion was that its prowess possessed the capacity to render any true believer "pure" but I probably digress or do I...?)
Now it's clear the buy-in of the lower/middle/unter class into the politics of the genocide, from which they themselves cannot escape at the hands of the upper-caste. All they can do is put off their own suffering by supporting their upper-caste to continuously outsource the unreconciled attachment-driven aggression, which may very well be a direct generationally-downstream result of the current generation-in-power's need to punish future generations for the sex-related sins of past generations (i.e. where brown and other dark-skinned others come from, according to The Word).
posted by human ecologist at 1:50 PM on July 2 [1 favorite]
(As a followup to Russia destroys bridge over Ukrainian river, cutting escape route -- Canada really hasn't been reporting much on Gaza, and it certainly isn't updating us as to this man's death sentence some 2 years later.)
This is happening, really? Can someone please brownsplain to me why this needs to happen? It can be via private Mefi mail, if here is not safe or appropriate to share.
Israel conscription rule stokes ultra-Orthodox fury
Right, so now we get to the heart of it... the two-tier system of citizenship that seems to typify "organized" religion. The above-humen vs the below-humen. The pure vs the impure (arguably I thought one of the tenets of a fine, fine religion was that its prowess possessed the capacity to render any true believer "pure" but I probably digress or do I...?)
“They’re just gonna give us some dirty job there. They’re there to make us not Orthodox no longer.”Cool so now it's clear. This belief system can only be sustained by extreme fragility, and thus, forces everyone else around in stroking distance to bend and warp reality to accommodate a singular particular worldview intended by design to accommodate the fragility. Because it doesn't really do anything to remove "impurities" now does it, eh.
Now it's clear the buy-in of the lower/middle/unter class into the politics of the genocide, from which they themselves cannot escape at the hands of the upper-caste. All they can do is put off their own suffering by supporting their upper-caste to continuously outsource the unreconciled attachment-driven aggression, which may very well be a direct generationally-downstream result of the current generation-in-power's need to punish future generations for the sex-related sins of past generations (i.e. where brown and other dark-skinned others come from, according to The Word).
This has been a long-standing cause of friction with secular Jewish Israelis who mostly do compulsory military service and pay the largest share of taxes. But the issue has now come to a head at the most sensitive time as the army faces unprecedented strain following its longest ever war in Gaza, and a possible second war with Hezbollah in Lebanon.Oh but you do. And so do we over here, and them too over there... everywhere the light touches [European Imperial Empires, that is]. What a great thing it is that when EuroSettler Nations make up words, it's considered "progress" rather than the repackaging of the caste system that it is. Besides, status, caste, socioeconomic clade? What's the difference? Besides, it's not like anyone who was impacted, say, by the Capitalist Blackbirding of the "Indo"-Pacific as it relates to North American West Coast Frontierism really matters anymore today, anyways, as history has "naturally" taken care of them.
"You can't make laws that make half a population, second grade citizens.”
posted by human ecologist at 1:50 PM on July 2 [1 favorite]
While there are 4 days left before this thread auto-closes, I hope I'm not sharing repeats in my backlog here--
Religion News: Presbyterian Church (USA) votes to divest from Israel bonds - On Monday, the denomination also passed a resolution denouncing Christian Zionism. - I believe this isn't the first church organisation in the US but I think this is only the second after the AME announcement.
Norway - Guardian: Norway pension fund sells $69m stake in Caterpillar over alleged involvement in Gaza destruction
First EU country to do this - AP: Spain applies to join South Africa’s case at top UN court accusing Israel of genocide
Meanwhile, from the non-EU country - Guardian: ICC decision on Netanyahu arrest warrant may be delayed by UK - Britain to make legal arguments over jurisdiction in case of alleged war crimes by the Israeli PM // btw good thing US is not a signatory, though to keep it safe I believe Blinken allowed US govt assets be used to fly in Yoav Gallant to DC.
One of the many updates of the ongoing hot 'war' - Guardian: Israel military strikes city of Khan Younis in southern Gaza after ordering evacuations
Close read of this NBC article pretty much just reconfirms/restates/rehashes the deranged nature of the military ops vs political aims with some newsy hooks:
But for some, the transition has also been seen as a tacit admission that Israel’s dual — and at times dueling — military objectives in Gaza are impossible to achieve in tandem. That destroying Hamas and freeing the remaining Israeli hostages in Gaza cannot be done together and that Israel’s attempt to do so has left both goals unrealized.
“Whoever defined these goals should have thought about the conflicting nature of that,” said a former senior Israeli military officer who asked to be quoted anonymously so that he could speak candidly about ongoing Israeli military policy.
(...) Israeli Army Radio subsequently reported that the military would turn toward conducting isolated raids once it has fully defeated Hamas’ Rafah Brigade — the Hamas units fighting in Gaza’s southernmost city, where Israel has focused its fight for weeks.
The conversation was complicated further when IDF spokesperson Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said that “anyone who thinks we can eliminate Hamas is wrong.”
Hagari and other government officials quickly walked those comments back, specifying that they referred to Hamas’ indelible ideology rather than its combat capabilities.
Hamas leaders pounced on the comments nonetheless.
Ghazi Hamad, a senior Hamas official based in neighboring Lebanon, told Al Jazeera on Wednesday that they amounted to a “frank confession” that will “convince the international community that the Hamas movement will remain in the political scene, and will be a permanent part of the social fabric and the fabric of resistance.”
Yet the new “phase” or “stage” in the fighting is also part of long-established Israeli war plans, and transitioning to the new phase has been announced before.
(...) In practice, the war’s new phase may end up bearing a strong resemblance to a more familiar nearby conflict: Israel’s operations in the occupied West Bank, a Palestinian enclave separate from Gaza that was seized by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War against its Arab neighbors.
On that note - CNN: Israel sparks international condemnation over plans to legalize five West Bank settlements
FT: Israel to test Hamas-free ‘bubbles’ in postwar Gaza plan -
Pilot in northern neighbourhoods described by insiders as a ‘fantasy’ scheme that will struggle to take hold
A second person with knowledge of postwar Gaza plans added that Israeli attempts to identify local Palestinians who could run Gaza in Hamas’s stead have been ongoing since November, without any significant success.
“This [plan] is just the latest iteration. The idea in Israeli minds is that someone — the Arab states, the international community — will pay for it, and locals in Gaza will run it. But no one is biting,” the person added.
AP: US removes Gaza aid pier due to weather and may not put it back, officials say
Haven't watched this but per nullagent on fedi: One of the ex-military YouTubers who was very excited about this pier operation early on is now eating a ton of humble pie as he now details exactly how inefficient and wasteful the Gaza pier operation was.
This definitely is his most honest review of this doomed project and worth the watch if you're curious about all the details.
He finally says the obvious and suggests just trucking aid from Egypt into Gaza.
'nyways - Huff Post: ‘Complicit’: Third Biden Administration Appointee Quits Over Gaza Policy - Maryam Hassanein, 24, became the youngest known resignee over Gaza after leaving the Interior Department over President Joe Biden's "dehumanization of Arabs and Muslims."
And: Exclusive: 12 Biden Administration Resignees Blast 'Intransigent' Gaza Policy - Joe Biden "has prioritized politics over just and fair policymaking" on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, former government officials argued in their first joint statement since quitting.
Oh wait, one more. Reuters: Exclusive: US has sent Israel thousands of 2,000-pound bombs since Oct. 7
The Biden administration has sent to Israel large numbers of munitions, including more than 10,000 highly destructive 2,000-pound bombs and thousands of Hellfire missiles, since the start of the war in Gaza, said two U.S. officials briefed on an updated list of weapons shipments.
Between the war's start last October and recent days, the United States has transferred at least 14,000 of the MK-84 2,000-pound bombs, 6,500 500-pound bombs, 3,000 Hellfire precision-guided air-to-ground missiles, 1,000 bunker-buster bombs, 2,600 air-dropped small-diameter bombs, and other munitions, according to the officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly.
While the officials didn't give a timeline for the shipments, the totals suggest there has been no significant drop-off in U.S. military support for its ally, despite international calls to limit weapons supplies and a recent administration decision to pause a shipment of powerful bombs.
Experts said the contents of the shipments appear consistent with what Israel would need to replenish supplies used in this eight-month intense military campaign in Gaza, which it launched after the Oct. 7 attack by Palestinian Hamas militants who killed 1,200 people and took 250 others hostage, according to Israeli tallies.
"While these numbers could be expended relatively quickly in a major conflict, this list clearly reflects a substantial level of support from the United States for our Israeli allies," said Tom Karako, a weapons expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, adding that the listed munitions were the type Israel would use in its fight against Hamas or in a potential conflict with Hezbollah.
The delivery numbers, which have not been previously reported, provide the most up-to-date and extensive tally of munitions shipped to Israel since the Gaza war began.
Also - Guardian: Revealed: the tech entrepreneur behind a pro-Israel hate network - The Guardian used public records and open source materials to identify Daniel Linden of the Shirion Collective. Quick scan didn't seem to reveal any Russians tho.
Exactly how is the American media landscape? These came and went like smoke in the wind.
Some happy news - MEE: Gaza's British cemeteries are the only ones Israel isn't destroying - While Palestinian graveyards have been destroyed, two historic British cemeteries remain intact
I understand. We should always respect our history and the past from where we come from.
posted by cendawanita at 11:41 PM on July 2 [7 favorites]
Religion News: Presbyterian Church (USA) votes to divest from Israel bonds - On Monday, the denomination also passed a resolution denouncing Christian Zionism. - I believe this isn't the first church organisation in the US but I think this is only the second after the AME announcement.
Norway - Guardian: Norway pension fund sells $69m stake in Caterpillar over alleged involvement in Gaza destruction
First EU country to do this - AP: Spain applies to join South Africa’s case at top UN court accusing Israel of genocide
Meanwhile, from the non-EU country - Guardian: ICC decision on Netanyahu arrest warrant may be delayed by UK - Britain to make legal arguments over jurisdiction in case of alleged war crimes by the Israeli PM // btw good thing US is not a signatory, though to keep it safe I believe Blinken allowed US govt assets be used to fly in Yoav Gallant to DC.
One of the many updates of the ongoing hot 'war' - Guardian: Israel military strikes city of Khan Younis in southern Gaza after ordering evacuations
Close read of this NBC article pretty much just reconfirms/restates/rehashes the deranged nature of the military ops vs political aims with some newsy hooks:
But for some, the transition has also been seen as a tacit admission that Israel’s dual — and at times dueling — military objectives in Gaza are impossible to achieve in tandem. That destroying Hamas and freeing the remaining Israeli hostages in Gaza cannot be done together and that Israel’s attempt to do so has left both goals unrealized.
“Whoever defined these goals should have thought about the conflicting nature of that,” said a former senior Israeli military officer who asked to be quoted anonymously so that he could speak candidly about ongoing Israeli military policy.
(...) Israeli Army Radio subsequently reported that the military would turn toward conducting isolated raids once it has fully defeated Hamas’ Rafah Brigade — the Hamas units fighting in Gaza’s southernmost city, where Israel has focused its fight for weeks.
The conversation was complicated further when IDF spokesperson Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said that “anyone who thinks we can eliminate Hamas is wrong.”
Hagari and other government officials quickly walked those comments back, specifying that they referred to Hamas’ indelible ideology rather than its combat capabilities.
Hamas leaders pounced on the comments nonetheless.
Ghazi Hamad, a senior Hamas official based in neighboring Lebanon, told Al Jazeera on Wednesday that they amounted to a “frank confession” that will “convince the international community that the Hamas movement will remain in the political scene, and will be a permanent part of the social fabric and the fabric of resistance.”
Yet the new “phase” or “stage” in the fighting is also part of long-established Israeli war plans, and transitioning to the new phase has been announced before.
(...) In practice, the war’s new phase may end up bearing a strong resemblance to a more familiar nearby conflict: Israel’s operations in the occupied West Bank, a Palestinian enclave separate from Gaza that was seized by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War against its Arab neighbors.
On that note - CNN: Israel sparks international condemnation over plans to legalize five West Bank settlements
FT: Israel to test Hamas-free ‘bubbles’ in postwar Gaza plan -
Pilot in northern neighbourhoods described by insiders as a ‘fantasy’ scheme that will struggle to take hold
A second person with knowledge of postwar Gaza plans added that Israeli attempts to identify local Palestinians who could run Gaza in Hamas’s stead have been ongoing since November, without any significant success.
“This [plan] is just the latest iteration. The idea in Israeli minds is that someone — the Arab states, the international community — will pay for it, and locals in Gaza will run it. But no one is biting,” the person added.
AP: US removes Gaza aid pier due to weather and may not put it back, officials say
Haven't watched this but per nullagent on fedi: One of the ex-military YouTubers who was very excited about this pier operation early on is now eating a ton of humble pie as he now details exactly how inefficient and wasteful the Gaza pier operation was.
This definitely is his most honest review of this doomed project and worth the watch if you're curious about all the details.
He finally says the obvious and suggests just trucking aid from Egypt into Gaza.
'nyways - Huff Post: ‘Complicit’: Third Biden Administration Appointee Quits Over Gaza Policy - Maryam Hassanein, 24, became the youngest known resignee over Gaza after leaving the Interior Department over President Joe Biden's "dehumanization of Arabs and Muslims."
And: Exclusive: 12 Biden Administration Resignees Blast 'Intransigent' Gaza Policy - Joe Biden "has prioritized politics over just and fair policymaking" on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, former government officials argued in their first joint statement since quitting.
Oh wait, one more. Reuters: Exclusive: US has sent Israel thousands of 2,000-pound bombs since Oct. 7
The Biden administration has sent to Israel large numbers of munitions, including more than 10,000 highly destructive 2,000-pound bombs and thousands of Hellfire missiles, since the start of the war in Gaza, said two U.S. officials briefed on an updated list of weapons shipments.
Between the war's start last October and recent days, the United States has transferred at least 14,000 of the MK-84 2,000-pound bombs, 6,500 500-pound bombs, 3,000 Hellfire precision-guided air-to-ground missiles, 1,000 bunker-buster bombs, 2,600 air-dropped small-diameter bombs, and other munitions, according to the officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly.
While the officials didn't give a timeline for the shipments, the totals suggest there has been no significant drop-off in U.S. military support for its ally, despite international calls to limit weapons supplies and a recent administration decision to pause a shipment of powerful bombs.
Experts said the contents of the shipments appear consistent with what Israel would need to replenish supplies used in this eight-month intense military campaign in Gaza, which it launched after the Oct. 7 attack by Palestinian Hamas militants who killed 1,200 people and took 250 others hostage, according to Israeli tallies.
"While these numbers could be expended relatively quickly in a major conflict, this list clearly reflects a substantial level of support from the United States for our Israeli allies," said Tom Karako, a weapons expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, adding that the listed munitions were the type Israel would use in its fight against Hamas or in a potential conflict with Hezbollah.
The delivery numbers, which have not been previously reported, provide the most up-to-date and extensive tally of munitions shipped to Israel since the Gaza war began.
Also - Guardian: Revealed: the tech entrepreneur behind a pro-Israel hate network - The Guardian used public records and open source materials to identify Daniel Linden of the Shirion Collective. Quick scan didn't seem to reveal any Russians tho.
Exactly how is the American media landscape? These came and went like smoke in the wind.
Some happy news - MEE: Gaza's British cemeteries are the only ones Israel isn't destroying - While Palestinian graveyards have been destroyed, two historic British cemeteries remain intact
I understand. We should always respect our history and the past from where we come from.
posted by cendawanita at 11:41 PM on July 2 [7 favorites]
Barely hyperbole - New Arab: Ben-Gvir says Palestinian prisoners should be killed, boasts of 'abominable' prison conditions - Itamar Ben-Gvir appeared to boast about squalid conditions in prison, in remarks observers have called an admission that Israel is running concentration camps.
The far-right minister took to X to respond to Shin Bet accusations that the government had ignored months of warnings about prison overcrowding with at least 21,000 Palestinian detainees held since 7 October.
"Since I assumed the position of Minister of National Security, one of the highest goals I have set for myself is to worsen the conditions of the terrorists in the prisons, and to reduce their rights to the minimum required by law," Ben-Gvir said.
The minister appeared to boast about the squalid conditions Palestinians are kept in, in remarks some observers have called an open admission that Israel is running concentration camps.
"Everything published about the abominable conditions" of Palestinians in Israeli jails "was true", Ben-Gvir said, boasting that he had reduced food and shower times for prisoners, removed electrical devices, and stopped financial deposits
Not Gaza - AP: Settlement tracking group says Israel has made largest West Bank land seizure in 3 decades - let me know how are we supposed to blame Hamas for this one.
Mondoweiss: The invisibility of Palestinian Christians - Palestinian Christians suffer from a crisis of representation, as some church leaders and community members disassociate from the Palestinian struggle and perpetuate the perception that they are a "minority."
“Church leaders usually like to use the minority card to paint us as a persecuted community, because this discourse pleases Western church hierarchies,” indicates Samira. “But if we say that we are persecuted as Palestinians, not as Christians, then we are asked to stay silent, or are simply ignored.”
“The problem is that this type of discourse is exactly what makes us a minority, not our numbers. The fact that we are a numerical minority doesn’t matter because we are Palestinians, but when we are represented as a community with no identity, separated from our country’s context, then we become a minority, socially and politically, and this really undermines our place in our society,” she adds.
The above, but not in Gaza - AP: Heads of churches say Israeli government is demanding they pay property tax, upsetting status quo
Back in Gaza - Save the Children: Over 20,000 children estimated to be lost, disappeared, detained, buried under the rubble or in mass graves
Some petty bullshit - The Intercept: Israel Opposes Rebuilding Gaza’s Internet Access Because Terrorists Could Go Online - Israel destroyed much of Gaza’s internet infrastructure. A Saudi proposal to rebuild it was watered down after Israeli and U.S. protests.
The Nation: The Lifelong Incoherence of Biden’s Israel Strategy -The president’s muddled policy course in the Middle East is angering voters across the political spectrum—and it could usher Trump back into the White House. - should this go into the debate Biden thread as well? IDK
Another one from the part of Palestine that's not in Gaza - +972: A settler shot my husband. Then Israel bulldozed my childhood home
From Gaza - The Intercept: Red Crescent Says Israel Never Reached Out About Hind Rajab’s Death, Despite State Department Claim That Israel Said Otherwise - When asked about Hind’s killing, the U.S. said that, according to Israel, the Palestine Red Crescent Society and U.N. have not helped investigate.
Or - The Nation: “They Didn’t Spare Anyone”: The Story of an Israeli Massacre in Gaza - In December, Israeli ground troops entered a Gaza apartment building filled with innocent people. Survivors told Al Jazeera that the soldiers left a “bloodbath” in their wake.
Working with journalists in Gaza, Al Jazeera English investigated a number of Israeli military attacks as part of The Night Won’t End, a documentary we reported and produced for the show Fault Lines and which was released last Friday. While we reported on incidents ranging from a massive air strike to attacks on safe zones to the killing of 6-year-old Hind Rajab, we also sought to focus on an issue that has received more limited media coverage: allegations of arbitrary executions of civilians by Israeli ground forces.
This is the story of one of those alleged incidents. We verified the details of the attack using the testimony of six survivors, satellite imagery, phone messages, and video footage.
Let me know how to also blame Hamas for this one too - International Crisis Group: Meltdown Looms for the West Bank’s Financial Lifelines - Israel’s threatened termination of a banking waiver would paralyse financial activity in the West Bank, causing an economic meltdown and risking the Palestinian Authority’s collapse – with dire consequences for West Bank Palestinians – and maybe for Israel, too. The U.S. should press Israel to change course.
posted by cendawanita at 11:53 AM on July 3 [9 favorites]
The far-right minister took to X to respond to Shin Bet accusations that the government had ignored months of warnings about prison overcrowding with at least 21,000 Palestinian detainees held since 7 October.
"Since I assumed the position of Minister of National Security, one of the highest goals I have set for myself is to worsen the conditions of the terrorists in the prisons, and to reduce their rights to the minimum required by law," Ben-Gvir said.
The minister appeared to boast about the squalid conditions Palestinians are kept in, in remarks some observers have called an open admission that Israel is running concentration camps.
"Everything published about the abominable conditions" of Palestinians in Israeli jails "was true", Ben-Gvir said, boasting that he had reduced food and shower times for prisoners, removed electrical devices, and stopped financial deposits
Not Gaza - AP: Settlement tracking group says Israel has made largest West Bank land seizure in 3 decades - let me know how are we supposed to blame Hamas for this one.
Mondoweiss: The invisibility of Palestinian Christians - Palestinian Christians suffer from a crisis of representation, as some church leaders and community members disassociate from the Palestinian struggle and perpetuate the perception that they are a "minority."
“Church leaders usually like to use the minority card to paint us as a persecuted community, because this discourse pleases Western church hierarchies,” indicates Samira. “But if we say that we are persecuted as Palestinians, not as Christians, then we are asked to stay silent, or are simply ignored.”
“The problem is that this type of discourse is exactly what makes us a minority, not our numbers. The fact that we are a numerical minority doesn’t matter because we are Palestinians, but when we are represented as a community with no identity, separated from our country’s context, then we become a minority, socially and politically, and this really undermines our place in our society,” she adds.
The above, but not in Gaza - AP: Heads of churches say Israeli government is demanding they pay property tax, upsetting status quo
Back in Gaza - Save the Children: Over 20,000 children estimated to be lost, disappeared, detained, buried under the rubble or in mass graves
Some petty bullshit - The Intercept: Israel Opposes Rebuilding Gaza’s Internet Access Because Terrorists Could Go Online - Israel destroyed much of Gaza’s internet infrastructure. A Saudi proposal to rebuild it was watered down after Israeli and U.S. protests.
The Nation: The Lifelong Incoherence of Biden’s Israel Strategy -The president’s muddled policy course in the Middle East is angering voters across the political spectrum—and it could usher Trump back into the White House. - should this go into the debate Biden thread as well? IDK
Another one from the part of Palestine that's not in Gaza - +972: A settler shot my husband. Then Israel bulldozed my childhood home
From Gaza - The Intercept: Red Crescent Says Israel Never Reached Out About Hind Rajab’s Death, Despite State Department Claim That Israel Said Otherwise - When asked about Hind’s killing, the U.S. said that, according to Israel, the Palestine Red Crescent Society and U.N. have not helped investigate.
Or - The Nation: “They Didn’t Spare Anyone”: The Story of an Israeli Massacre in Gaza - In December, Israeli ground troops entered a Gaza apartment building filled with innocent people. Survivors told Al Jazeera that the soldiers left a “bloodbath” in their wake.
Working with journalists in Gaza, Al Jazeera English investigated a number of Israeli military attacks as part of The Night Won’t End, a documentary we reported and produced for the show Fault Lines and which was released last Friday. While we reported on incidents ranging from a massive air strike to attacks on safe zones to the killing of 6-year-old Hind Rajab, we also sought to focus on an issue that has received more limited media coverage: allegations of arbitrary executions of civilians by Israeli ground forces.
This is the story of one of those alleged incidents. We verified the details of the attack using the testimony of six survivors, satellite imagery, phone messages, and video footage.
Let me know how to also blame Hamas for this one too - International Crisis Group: Meltdown Looms for the West Bank’s Financial Lifelines - Israel’s threatened termination of a banking waiver would paralyse financial activity in the West Bank, causing an economic meltdown and risking the Palestinian Authority’s collapse – with dire consequences for West Bank Palestinians – and maybe for Israel, too. The U.S. should press Israel to change course.
posted by cendawanita at 11:53 AM on July 3 [9 favorites]
Muhammad Shehada, reporting on this Hebrew article on ynet:
🚨The latest on Biden's ceasefire:
Netanyahu rejected Hamas' response as soon as Israel received it.
Hamas made unprecedented compromises that bring the two sides closer than ever to a deal (e.g. removed its demand for full IDF withdrawal in the 1st stage or even withdrawal from the Philadelphia corridor & dropped the demand for early guarantees of ending the war in the second stage).
Biden is expected to call Netanyahu to pressure him to accept, but Israel's security establishment is alarmed by Netanyahu & his far-right ministers & believe they are trying to sabotage the deal.
In the interest of fairness and balance, any recent polling data from the Israeli public as to the level of support for a) Bibi; b) his coalition; and c) the war? I'd like to know what conclusions I'm supposed to draw about public legitimacy, you understand.
posted by cendawanita at 10:00 AM on July 4 [6 favorites]
🚨The latest on Biden's ceasefire:
Netanyahu rejected Hamas' response as soon as Israel received it.
Hamas made unprecedented compromises that bring the two sides closer than ever to a deal (e.g. removed its demand for full IDF withdrawal in the 1st stage or even withdrawal from the Philadelphia corridor & dropped the demand for early guarantees of ending the war in the second stage).
Biden is expected to call Netanyahu to pressure him to accept, but Israel's security establishment is alarmed by Netanyahu & his far-right ministers & believe they are trying to sabotage the deal.
In the interest of fairness and balance, any recent polling data from the Israeli public as to the level of support for a) Bibi; b) his coalition; and c) the war? I'd like to know what conclusions I'm supposed to draw about public legitimacy, you understand.
posted by cendawanita at 10:00 AM on July 4 [6 favorites]
Hadn't seen an update from Wizard Bisan YT channel and feared the worst, but came across her work for Al Jazeera and saw for her most recent post (just 9 days ago) she picked up a Peabody for her AJ+ work bringing news from within Gaza.
posted by phigmov at 4:14 PM on July 5 [4 favorites]
posted by phigmov at 4:14 PM on July 5 [4 favorites]
Smotrich extends waiver allowing Israeli, Palestinian banks to cooperate
Around journalism, the United States has fallen from 20th to 55th in the Press Freedom Index, with one recent example being Trevor Aaronson at The Intercept.
posted by jeffburdges at 8:09 AM on July 7 [2 favorites]
Around journalism, the United States has fallen from 20th to 55th in the Press Freedom Index, with one recent example being Trevor Aaronson at The Intercept.
posted by jeffburdges at 8:09 AM on July 7 [2 favorites]
Apologies! toastyk had gone ahead and done good work on a fresh FPP, here. Please go there, I'll ask mods to delete mine.
posted by cendawanita at 10:10 AM on July 7 [1 favorite]
posted by cendawanita at 10:10 AM on July 7 [1 favorite]
« Older How Crossbows Can Tell Us Which Genes Trees Are... | The first half, at least, sounds like a readymade... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 11:09 AM on June 7 [23 favorites]