Europe is Healthier than US
July 11, 2024 9:04 AM Subscribe
'This is my third essay comparing US to Europe, which is the sex scenes of travel writing — usually cringe, usually vapid, but boy oh boy does it sell. The prior two, “US is better than Europe!” and “America does not have a good food culture”, are two of my most read essays.'
I like to go to Twitter Economist (and actual economist) Jeremy Horpedahl with the following point about health:
Europe is healthier* than the US, because in the US young people (mostly men) die earlier:"Elderly Americans have some of the lowest death rates, while in the US ages "25–29 experience death rates nearly 3 times higher"" and the majority of US health care spending is spent on those 55 and older, and the US spends a huge percentage of medical funding on a small percentage of the population with poor health, with overall *positive* outcomes. In other words, we spend a lot, and the people who are sick are generally well cared for. And most Americans spend very little on health care in the average year, until of course they are older.
However, social mental health, in the listing of 3rd places and non-event based socialization within the US has taken a hit between 1960-2010, and that was purposeful. We are only now realizing what we lost, and starting to build it back. And that car accidents and lousy gun law are behind this for young men shouldn't come as much of a surprise.
And Food Culture:
Median Food Spending at a Percent of Total Household Income (before taxes, etc) The US is among the lowest in the industrial world at 14.7% (so mechanized food production has real advantages) but the majority of the countries in Europe are only slightly more, majority including France less than 20%. France also has lower median household income than the US, so in real terms they are spending about equal or less actual money.
So if the median French household really spends 2X the amount of time daily as the median American household on eating, that's a huge amount of labor unaccounted for in their GDP, which means unpaid labor that people are doing to maintain that culture, and no surprise in the time of increasing equity it's going to decrease.
It's either that, or he's visiting and going off vacation anecdotes more than actual data.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:46 AM on July 11 [2 favorites]
Europe is healthier* than the US, because in the US young people (mostly men) die earlier:"Elderly Americans have some of the lowest death rates, while in the US ages "25–29 experience death rates nearly 3 times higher"" and the majority of US health care spending is spent on those 55 and older, and the US spends a huge percentage of medical funding on a small percentage of the population with poor health, with overall *positive* outcomes. In other words, we spend a lot, and the people who are sick are generally well cared for. And most Americans spend very little on health care in the average year, until of course they are older.
However, social mental health, in the listing of 3rd places and non-event based socialization within the US has taken a hit between 1960-2010, and that was purposeful. We are only now realizing what we lost, and starting to build it back. And that car accidents and lousy gun law are behind this for young men shouldn't come as much of a surprise.
And Food Culture:
Median Food Spending at a Percent of Total Household Income (before taxes, etc) The US is among the lowest in the industrial world at 14.7% (so mechanized food production has real advantages) but the majority of the countries in Europe are only slightly more, majority including France less than 20%. France also has lower median household income than the US, so in real terms they are spending about equal or less actual money.
So if the median French household really spends 2X the amount of time daily as the median American household on eating, that's a huge amount of labor unaccounted for in their GDP, which means unpaid labor that people are doing to maintain that culture, and no surprise in the time of increasing equity it's going to decrease.
It's either that, or he's visiting and going off vacation anecdotes more than actual data.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:46 AM on July 11 [2 favorites]
As a Yankee turned southerner with 21 years "down here" under my belt, I have to emphasize the religious experience of biting into a brisket sandwich made by some guy named Geech serving it out of a stolen wheelbarrow.
Ol' Geech has it so tender you could have gotten a bite with just your lips, basically kissing through the bun and meat. The flavor is unreal.
If barbecue is to be our global contribution to cuisine, I'm more than proud.
posted by KrampusQuick at 12:15 PM on July 11 [3 favorites]
Ol' Geech has it so tender you could have gotten a bite with just your lips, basically kissing through the bun and meat. The flavor is unreal.
If barbecue is to be our global contribution to cuisine, I'm more than proud.
posted by KrampusQuick at 12:15 PM on July 11 [3 favorites]
America ranks 47th in life expenctancy, but addressing The_Vegetables specific remarks:
At all ages France has lower age specific death rates than America, so America sees little if any benefit from their higher spending on health care for the elderly, likely the insurance companies eat everything.
posted by jeffburdges at 1:39 PM on July 11 [2 favorites]
At all ages France has lower age specific death rates than America, so America sees little if any benefit from their higher spending on health care for the elderly, likely the insurance companies eat everything.
posted by jeffburdges at 1:39 PM on July 11 [2 favorites]
So if the median French household really spends 2X the amount of time daily as the median American household on eating, that's a huge amount of labor unaccounted for in their GDP
Eating isn't labour. Prep and clean up is, but the extent to which that is included or excluded in GDP depends on whether household does it themselves or otherwise. Culturally, French people may spend more time in restaurants.
posted by biffa at 3:08 PM on July 11
Eating isn't labour. Prep and clean up is, but the extent to which that is included or excluded in GDP depends on whether household does it themselves or otherwise. Culturally, French people may spend more time in restaurants.
posted by biffa at 3:08 PM on July 11
There are plenty of Europeans who swap their tiny city appartment for a countryside appartment, while still having public transit into some reasonable city.
We've many problems with public transportation in France, largely created by anti-social dipshits buying cars, and politicians prioiritizing them over everyone else, but we do occasionally improve train times to Paris by building some better portion of track. This makes work from home plus ocasional Paris work much nicer.
The American lifestyle I’m so critical of, the lack of public transport, the selfish lifestyle, the gross materialism, the shortsightedness, the paper thin intellectually vapid bling, is very appealing to a large percentage of the world, and that should matter. How large a percentage? I’m not sure, but while it may not be a majority, it’s not far from it.
...
That is, maybe most people really do want an American style transcendent-free lifestyle, especially if it comes with the conveniences of a huge dyer, powerful AC, two large cars, and a ranch house on a plot of land that couldn’t ever hold a heard of animals larger than rats.
Yes, there is an attraction to the base "more more more" offered by the US, but all this feels irrelevant..
As a species, we consume like 1.75 x what the earth provides each year, aka biocapacity. We're consuming "the principle" since 1.75 > 1 so the biocapacity declines, worsening this over time. Also, if everyone lived like an American then we'd consume 5.1 x what the earth provides. Americans themselves already consume 2.4 x what their enormous sparcely populated land provides.
At this point moral universalism answers the question, albeit in favor of Chad etc, not Europe.
Ignoring morality, we still have the problem that all this over consumption reduces our long term consuption potential. Another oil shocks could maybe improve this situation?
posted by jeffburdges at 3:55 PM on July 11 [3 favorites]
We've many problems with public transportation in France, largely created by anti-social dipshits buying cars, and politicians prioiritizing them over everyone else, but we do occasionally improve train times to Paris by building some better portion of track. This makes work from home plus ocasional Paris work much nicer.
The American lifestyle I’m so critical of, the lack of public transport, the selfish lifestyle, the gross materialism, the shortsightedness, the paper thin intellectually vapid bling, is very appealing to a large percentage of the world, and that should matter. How large a percentage? I’m not sure, but while it may not be a majority, it’s not far from it.
...
That is, maybe most people really do want an American style transcendent-free lifestyle, especially if it comes with the conveniences of a huge dyer, powerful AC, two large cars, and a ranch house on a plot of land that couldn’t ever hold a heard of animals larger than rats.
Yes, there is an attraction to the base "more more more" offered by the US, but all this feels irrelevant..
As a species, we consume like 1.75 x what the earth provides each year, aka biocapacity. We're consuming "the principle" since 1.75 > 1 so the biocapacity declines, worsening this over time. Also, if everyone lived like an American then we'd consume 5.1 x what the earth provides. Americans themselves already consume 2.4 x what their enormous sparcely populated land provides.
At this point moral universalism answers the question, albeit in favor of Chad etc, not Europe.
Ignoring morality, we still have the problem that all this over consumption reduces our long term consuption potential. Another oil shocks could maybe improve this situation?
posted by jeffburdges at 3:55 PM on July 11 [3 favorites]
likely the insurance companies eat everything.
I believe this is correct.
posted by sneebler at 4:44 PM on July 11 [1 favorite]
I believe this is correct.
posted by sneebler at 4:44 PM on July 11 [1 favorite]
Obsessed with this paragraph:
Without church, they go to the drug traps; without cafes, bars; without families, politics; without sports clubs, gangs; without friends, angry online forums.
Really *is* there a link between religion and drugs? Family and politics? Sports and gangs? Why group it this way and not another? *Are* these categories fulfilling the same social purpose?
posted by subdee at 7:15 PM on July 11 [2 favorites]
Without church, they go to the drug traps; without cafes, bars; without families, politics; without sports clubs, gangs; without friends, angry online forums.
Really *is* there a link between religion and drugs? Family and politics? Sports and gangs? Why group it this way and not another? *Are* these categories fulfilling the same social purpose?
posted by subdee at 7:15 PM on July 11 [2 favorites]
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