"To be real, much of the internet assumes, is to complain."
July 22, 2024 9:26 AM Subscribe
Yelp's Affect on Restaurants and Everything Else
The sentence "It is now nearly impossible to get through a day without being asked to rate something" is RELATABLE.
The sentence "It is now nearly impossible to get through a day without being asked to rate something" is RELATABLE.
"Almost immediately, however, restaurants — likely the kind of business you frequent most in a given week..."
Who is this written for? People who just never go to shops?
posted by Dysk at 9:33 AM on July 22 [11 favorites]
Who is this written for? People who just never go to shops?
posted by Dysk at 9:33 AM on July 22 [11 favorites]
Man, that copper merchant correspondence sure gets taken out for a walk often.
posted by the sobsister at 9:34 AM on July 22 [20 favorites]
posted by the sobsister at 9:34 AM on July 22 [20 favorites]
ugh. I just went to the flipping dentist and I'm being harassed multiple times a day to rate the experience. it's the DENTIST. it's never good.
posted by supermedusa at 9:35 AM on July 22 [25 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 9:35 AM on July 22 [25 favorites]
I'll be real with you guys: those of you who do rate and review? I appreciate you. I just will not be doing so.
posted by Kitteh at 9:40 AM on July 22 [13 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:40 AM on July 22 [13 favorites]
Please take a few moments to comment in this thread to let us know how your rating experience went!
posted by phooky at 9:42 AM on July 22 [23 favorites]
posted by phooky at 9:42 AM on July 22 [23 favorites]
“If there’s one fundamental human impulse that the internet has indulged more than anything else, it’s our desire to be huge bitches.”
And in that spirit: it should be effect on, not affect on.
posted by pracowity at 9:43 AM on July 22 [19 favorites]
And in that spirit: it should be effect on, not affect on.
posted by pracowity at 9:43 AM on July 22 [19 favorites]
OH SNAP, that's my brain doing that, sorry, I will let the mods know
posted by Kitteh at 9:45 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:45 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]
Am I the only guy who never looked up a restaurant on Yelp?
posted by ocschwar at 9:47 AM on July 22 [16 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 9:47 AM on July 22 [16 favorites]
Please take a few moments to comment in this thread to let us know how your rating experience went!
Favorited!
posted by Klipspringer at 9:50 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]
Favorited!
posted by Klipspringer at 9:50 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]
“I don’t have an Google or Yelp account” is one of those incomprehensible moments that leads people to silence their requests for me. Apparently they have no pushy reply to countering an unconscious assumption.
posted by Callisto Prime at 9:52 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]
posted by Callisto Prime at 9:52 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]
The thing these days is that you are now socially forced to rate everything FIVE STARS and four stars is like giving them an F-- and getting someone fired. This makes me no longer want to actually give my opinion on anything. Especially if you are likely to be tracked down/harassed for your opinion.
A friend of mine is an "elite Yelp reviewer" and oh dear lord, the drama sometimes makes my eyes roll so hard. The time she got into a fight with someone over stale shortbread? (Note: shortbread is supposed to taste stale!) Aieeeee.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:59 AM on July 22 [16 favorites]
A friend of mine is an "elite Yelp reviewer" and oh dear lord, the drama sometimes makes my eyes roll so hard. The time she got into a fight with someone over stale shortbread? (Note: shortbread is supposed to taste stale!) Aieeeee.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:59 AM on July 22 [16 favorites]
Sometime back between 2003 and 2010 I went to a restaurant and there was MULTIPLE PIECES OF BROKEN GLASS IN MY PIZZA and the waitress shrugged and it didn't occur to me until literally this minute in July 2024 that I could have left a bad review online.
(I did ring the Health Dept the next day and give them a heads up, tho.)
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 10:00 AM on July 22 [18 favorites]
(I did ring the Health Dept the next day and give them a heads up, tho.)
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 10:00 AM on July 22 [18 favorites]
i also share Dysk's bafflement: does the intended audience of TFA not buy groceries? or like do newsagents/off-licences/convenience stores/whatever y'all call them wherever you are feature much less prominently in people's lives than i thought/than they do in mine?
posted by busted_crayons at 10:00 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]
posted by busted_crayons at 10:00 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]
Also: if I buy something and the business sends me 5 emails pestering me to review it, I swear one of these days I'm going to write a review
1 star - the product was unobjectionable, but the constant emails demanding reviews were really annoying
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 10:02 AM on July 22 [23 favorites]
1 star - the product was unobjectionable, but the constant emails demanding reviews were really annoying
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 10:02 AM on July 22 [23 favorites]
"1 star - the product was unobjectionable, but the constant emails demanding reviews were really annoying"
omg yes good do it
posted by Jacqueline at 10:16 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]
omg yes good do it
posted by Jacqueline at 10:16 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]
The trouble is that (except for, eg, the dentist) being expected to rate everything on a scale of one to five stars strengthens people's belief that everything should be a five star experience, that they are entitled to a five star experience and anything less is caused by failure.
It's like the time that I drove my commute at 2am (a long time ago when I had a car and a real commute) and discovered that it took about fifteen minutes versus thirty on a regular day and had to fight down the feeling that the "real" commute should be fifteen minutes and everything else was other drivers Doing It Wrong. Your average bagel or ice cream or grocery shop at an average price isn't going to be a five star experience, unless you're really carefully thinking "this is a five-star experience in relation to other average bageleries".
And I mean, it's okay - I don't expect a glass of fine champagne and deeply discounted locally-sourced fiddlehead ferns when I swing by Aldi. The problem of the internet is that it's given everyone with a little cash the idea that if everything isn't the most magnificent of its kind you're being shortchanged and cannot possibly enjoy it or benefit from it.
posted by Frowner at 10:17 AM on July 22 [22 favorites]
It's like the time that I drove my commute at 2am (a long time ago when I had a car and a real commute) and discovered that it took about fifteen minutes versus thirty on a regular day and had to fight down the feeling that the "real" commute should be fifteen minutes and everything else was other drivers Doing It Wrong. Your average bagel or ice cream or grocery shop at an average price isn't going to be a five star experience, unless you're really carefully thinking "this is a five-star experience in relation to other average bageleries".
And I mean, it's okay - I don't expect a glass of fine champagne and deeply discounted locally-sourced fiddlehead ferns when I swing by Aldi. The problem of the internet is that it's given everyone with a little cash the idea that if everything isn't the most magnificent of its kind you're being shortchanged and cannot possibly enjoy it or benefit from it.
posted by Frowner at 10:17 AM on July 22 [22 favorites]
I despise Yelp. Bunch of no-star astro-turf enabling extortionists.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 10:19 AM on July 22 [6 favorites]
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 10:19 AM on July 22 [6 favorites]
i also share Dysk's bafflement: does the intended audience of TFA not buy groceries?
In some areas, especially where people have cars and lots of storage and fridge/freezer space at home and don't have big families or eat a lot of fresh vegetables, it's common to go to the supermarket (or places like Costco) much less often than once a week. And if you're someone who eats out all the time, you have even less need to buy groceries. It's the author describing their own life, apparently.
posted by trig at 10:19 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]
In some areas, especially where people have cars and lots of storage and fridge/freezer space at home and don't have big families or eat a lot of fresh vegetables, it's common to go to the supermarket (or places like Costco) much less often than once a week. And if you're someone who eats out all the time, you have even less need to buy groceries. It's the author describing their own life, apparently.
posted by trig at 10:19 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]
I confess I'll fire up Yelp if I'm in a new place and I want to know what's around, but the 17 sponsored results before getting to the actual results are far more annoying than anyone's ratings.
Side note: I wish "Probably already knows about McDonald's and other ubiquitous brands" were part of my online marketing profile.
posted by emelenjr at 10:43 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]
Side note: I wish "Probably already knows about McDonald's and other ubiquitous brands" were part of my online marketing profile.
posted by emelenjr at 10:43 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]
I actually reviewed a hotel this week (very positively), the first time I've rated anything in a long time, because the staff are so friendly. Two different employees really made me laugh in the space of five minutes, and that is absolutely not my average hotel experience.
I resent being asked to fake any kind of emotion or opinion about the large number of satisfactory or uneventful goods and services I purchase. It's got to be genuinely motivated by a surprisingly good (or bad, though I'm also inexplicably less motivated to share bad reviews) experience, not the default expectation for every damn interaction.
posted by terretu at 11:17 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]
I resent being asked to fake any kind of emotion or opinion about the large number of satisfactory or uneventful goods and services I purchase. It's got to be genuinely motivated by a surprisingly good (or bad, though I'm also inexplicably less motivated to share bad reviews) experience, not the default expectation for every damn interaction.
posted by terretu at 11:17 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]
Yeah I bowed out the minute I realized that rating and reviewing is essentially just doing free work for them. No, thank you. I already paid for the service once.
posted by panama joe at 11:26 AM on July 22 [7 favorites]
posted by panama joe at 11:26 AM on July 22 [7 favorites]
I actually did rate and review my dentist. I am a very difficult patient; I have a hair-trigger gag reflex, a "very wet mouth", and my tongue absolutely has a mind of its own and will try to block you at every turn. Getting a filling done usually leaves me exhausted for the rest of the day. (Sadly, sedated dentsitry is not an option for me.)
Anyhoo, I need an old filling replaced, and my usual clinic had a new dentist who replaced the filling, and it was by far the least traumatic dental experience I've ever had. He was gentle, very patient, and it was finished before I'd had a chance to get myself all stressed out. The whole experience impressed me so much, and was such a departure from what I'd come to expect, that I gave them a glowing review with basically this same story, and sent the doctor a nice card as well. I haven't needed a filling or replacement since (fingers crossed) but I hope he's still practicing when I do.
I generally don't leave a review if I have a particularly bad experience; it's too easy to make it a platform for venting and weird retribution. If I had a worrying experience at a restaurant, I'll call the health department directly. But I will leave a review if I had a notably positive experience. Not just "okay this didn't suck" but something in how the staff interacted me, the service delivered, whatever, if something really felt above and beyond, absolutely I will take the time.
posted by xedrik at 11:31 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]
Anyhoo, I need an old filling replaced, and my usual clinic had a new dentist who replaced the filling, and it was by far the least traumatic dental experience I've ever had. He was gentle, very patient, and it was finished before I'd had a chance to get myself all stressed out. The whole experience impressed me so much, and was such a departure from what I'd come to expect, that I gave them a glowing review with basically this same story, and sent the doctor a nice card as well. I haven't needed a filling or replacement since (fingers crossed) but I hope he's still practicing when I do.
I generally don't leave a review if I have a particularly bad experience; it's too easy to make it a platform for venting and weird retribution. If I had a worrying experience at a restaurant, I'll call the health department directly. But I will leave a review if I had a notably positive experience. Not just "okay this didn't suck" but something in how the staff interacted me, the service delivered, whatever, if something really felt above and beyond, absolutely I will take the time.
posted by xedrik at 11:31 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]
Man, I got all the way down here and nobody'd brought up that Black Mirror episode? That's kind of weird.
Being asked to review something by someone who is not already a personal acquaintance is right up there with having to get through multiple layers of "I want to talk to a HUMAN" when accessing customer "service". No, I'm not going to rate you. If someone can tell me how to turn the stars OFF on Google Maps when I'm looking around for restaurants, I will give YOU five stars, though.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 11:49 AM on July 22 [1 favorite]
Being asked to review something by someone who is not already a personal acquaintance is right up there with having to get through multiple layers of "I want to talk to a HUMAN" when accessing customer "service". No, I'm not going to rate you. If someone can tell me how to turn the stars OFF on Google Maps when I'm looking around for restaurants, I will give YOU five stars, though.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 11:49 AM on July 22 [1 favorite]
I will say that given the sixty hour odyssey it took us to get home on United, I was positively giddy at the thought of doing a satisfaction survey after. Oh, I was cracking my knuckles and rolling my neck in anticipation.
Remember, United: you fucking asked for this.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:51 AM on July 22 [12 favorites]
Remember, United: you fucking asked for this.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:51 AM on July 22 [12 favorites]
There should be a platform where any person gets a limited number of reviews they can make a year, like 10 or 15. So most reviews are only going to be for notably bad or good experiences, since you don't want to just waste them.
Alternatively, a platform where you can just default, with no reminders or notifications, to a 5-star review without further comment; if a review is negative or does have extra information, that means someone's been so impressed (for better or worse) that they decided to go out of their way to change the review.
Probably a combination of the two would be best, to provide users some information while minimizing gaming by businesses and employers. (For example I always wonder if, by not giving reviews, I'm harming an employee because they need to meet some positive review quota or something, or because their employer weighs the reviews such that a single negative review is a huge black mark against them unless outweighed by tons of positive ones.)
posted by trig at 11:52 AM on July 22 [1 favorite]
Alternatively, a platform where you can just default, with no reminders or notifications, to a 5-star review without further comment; if a review is negative or does have extra information, that means someone's been so impressed (for better or worse) that they decided to go out of their way to change the review.
Probably a combination of the two would be best, to provide users some information while minimizing gaming by businesses and employers. (For example I always wonder if, by not giving reviews, I'm harming an employee because they need to meet some positive review quota or something, or because their employer weighs the reviews such that a single negative review is a huge black mark against them unless outweighed by tons of positive ones.)
posted by trig at 11:52 AM on July 22 [1 favorite]
For restaurant reviews, I have noticed that Yelp reviews tend to be a whole point lower (1-5 scale) than TripAdvisor reviews. I've heard that is because TripAdvisor reviewers tend to be older and are not using TripAdvisor to increase their internet credibility (or whatever the kids are enthused about these days.)
I'm a top level restaurant and hotel reviewer on TripAdvisor, but only because I travel a lot and I've written a couple of hundred reviews since 2008. My foremost reason for writing reviews is so that I can look up places when I go back (The Retro Lounge near Pikes Place) instead of, "That bar north of the Market, half-way up a hill on the left side of the street." My other reason is to share what's good about a place and sometimes what is bad. And whether it's good or bad, I'm specific, having worked in food service, management and literally stayed a couple of years of my life in hotels.
I appreciate a well-written review. I laugh at and ignore the petty or foolish ones.
posted by ITravelMontana at 11:56 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]
I'm a top level restaurant and hotel reviewer on TripAdvisor, but only because I travel a lot and I've written a couple of hundred reviews since 2008. My foremost reason for writing reviews is so that I can look up places when I go back (The Retro Lounge near Pikes Place) instead of, "That bar north of the Market, half-way up a hill on the left side of the street." My other reason is to share what's good about a place and sometimes what is bad. And whether it's good or bad, I'm specific, having worked in food service, management and literally stayed a couple of years of my life in hotels.
I appreciate a well-written review. I laugh at and ignore the petty or foolish ones.
posted by ITravelMontana at 11:56 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]
I never leave reviews, but when I do it is positive reviews for small businesses who don’t ask for it. It can have a huge impact for new or small businesses.
Sometimes I do feel the urge to complain. I have learned that the most productive way for me to do it is to write directly to the owners and structure my message like a bug report. Expected result, observed result, steps to reproduce, and possible fixes.
The IMPORTANT part is to consider the wending of the message the end of the task. No one owes me a response, an apology, or anything else. Let it go, hold no grudges.
Most of the time I get nothing back or a generic thank you for your feedback reply. A few times an angry response. Some times an offer to make it up, and rarely a well thought out response, usually with a request to give them another chance.
I’ve built good commercial and sometimes personal relationships with the last group.
As a recent example, I bought a sensitive instrument from a family business in the US, shipped to Mexico. They used the 90.30 Harmonised System Code in the customs form, which ended up costing me an extra 13% in tariffs. I wrote an email explaining the situation, suggesting the use of HS Code 9030.10.00, which is the correct one and would have saved me some money, and asking for nothing in return.
I got a response a couple weeks later thanking me for the heads up, letting me they were sorry they had costed international customer a lot of money in extra tariffs, and a transferable discount code (one does not tend to buy multiple instruments of this type). I left them a good review focusing on their willingness to listen and fix issues and the great quality of the product.
To think that in 2006 I was this close to switching jobs and going to Yelp. The honest to god reason I did not switch is because our office dog was a smart and lovely Wheaten Terrier and Yelp had a beautiful but hyperactive and constantly and loudly yelping Vizsla.
posted by Dr. Curare at 11:57 AM on July 22 [13 favorites]
Sometimes I do feel the urge to complain. I have learned that the most productive way for me to do it is to write directly to the owners and structure my message like a bug report. Expected result, observed result, steps to reproduce, and possible fixes.
The IMPORTANT part is to consider the wending of the message the end of the task. No one owes me a response, an apology, or anything else. Let it go, hold no grudges.
Most of the time I get nothing back or a generic thank you for your feedback reply. A few times an angry response. Some times an offer to make it up, and rarely a well thought out response, usually with a request to give them another chance.
I’ve built good commercial and sometimes personal relationships with the last group.
As a recent example, I bought a sensitive instrument from a family business in the US, shipped to Mexico. They used the 90.30 Harmonised System Code in the customs form, which ended up costing me an extra 13% in tariffs. I wrote an email explaining the situation, suggesting the use of HS Code 9030.10.00, which is the correct one and would have saved me some money, and asking for nothing in return.
I got a response a couple weeks later thanking me for the heads up, letting me they were sorry they had costed international customer a lot of money in extra tariffs, and a transferable discount code (one does not tend to buy multiple instruments of this type). I left them a good review focusing on their willingness to listen and fix issues and the great quality of the product.
To think that in 2006 I was this close to switching jobs and going to Yelp. The honest to god reason I did not switch is because our office dog was a smart and lovely Wheaten Terrier and Yelp had a beautiful but hyperactive and constantly and loudly yelping Vizsla.
posted by Dr. Curare at 11:57 AM on July 22 [13 favorites]
1 star - the product was unobjectionable, but the constant emails demanding reviews were really annoying
BRB, setting up a keyboard macro...
posted by wenestvedt at 12:02 PM on July 22 [4 favorites]
BRB, setting up a keyboard macro...
posted by wenestvedt at 12:02 PM on July 22 [4 favorites]
I like reviewing items when the market is crowded with clones.
Often I can leave a note indicating how the item works, since knock-offs rarely have decent documentation or instructions or testing data. Future searchers who may have bought a different clone -- still without instructions -- will find my review and get an answer.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:06 PM on July 22 [1 favorite]
Often I can leave a note indicating how the item works, since knock-offs rarely have decent documentation or instructions or testing data. Future searchers who may have bought a different clone -- still without instructions -- will find my review and get an answer.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:06 PM on July 22 [1 favorite]
Yelp used to be reliable until the shills came on board.
posted by DJZouke at 12:29 PM on July 22 [1 favorite]
posted by DJZouke at 12:29 PM on July 22 [1 favorite]
I just thought of another way I will use Yelp besides sorting by distance in an unfamiliar location: reading one-star reviews of generally well-known and well-respected places, and not having to imagine too hard why the reviewer didn't have a good time.
Which leads me to disagree with the premise of this article — Yelp reviews are pretty great.
posted by emelenjr at 12:30 PM on July 22 [1 favorite]
Which leads me to disagree with the premise of this article — Yelp reviews are pretty great.
posted by emelenjr at 12:30 PM on July 22 [1 favorite]
This is all strange to me because I go to a lot of restaurants and I never, ever, consult Yelp. I'm not sure that I ever would. I think democratized reviews of restaurants suffer from reliability issues. The younger skewing Yelp reviewer doesn't have the taste or experience to know if a place is bone standard or something special. There's also a spillover Instagram effect that favors pretentiously showy stuff and the "see and be seen" aspect of dining culture that I find dreadful.
There was a piece -- also in Eater? -- about the TripAdvisor top restaurants in NYC bear no relation to any local's or pro critics top lists. It's a tourist's view of the city and skews to neighborhoods that tourists tend to visit in larger numbers. I've eaten at a few of them and the tourists aren't wrong about these places, most of them are solid restaurants with a good value; they're just not the best restaurants in NYC.
posted by borges at 12:30 PM on July 22
There was a piece -- also in Eater? -- about the TripAdvisor top restaurants in NYC bear no relation to any local's or pro critics top lists. It's a tourist's view of the city and skews to neighborhoods that tourists tend to visit in larger numbers. I've eaten at a few of them and the tourists aren't wrong about these places, most of them are solid restaurants with a good value; they're just not the best restaurants in NYC.
posted by borges at 12:30 PM on July 22
Man, I got all the way down here and nobody'd brought up that Black Mirror episode? That's kind of weird.
I gave a Black Mirror episode 4 Stars once, and now they won’t play for me out of spite.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:35 PM on July 22 [2 favorites]
I gave a Black Mirror episode 4 Stars once, and now they won’t play for me out of spite.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:35 PM on July 22 [2 favorites]
Man, I got all the way down here and nobody'd brought up that Black Mirror episode? That's kind of weird.I gave a Black Mirror episode 4 Stars once, and now they won’t play for me out of spite.
Everyone loves that Black Mirror episode but for me it was 3 MeowMeowBeenz at most.
Koogler Out!
posted by midmarch snowman at 12:41 PM on July 22 [8 favorites]
I do use Google reviews sorted by new to figure out if going to a place is worth it. My one problem is so many of these reviews are 1-star drive-bys by people with a history of less than 5 reviews. I automatically discount those. But it would be nice if Google allows you to filter those by toggling out reviews by people with, say, less than 50 reviews or so.
I don't use Yelp because of their shady practice of extorting restaurants, and allowing restaurants to pay to have genuine bad reviews taken down. At least Google reviews is agnostic in this sense.
posted by indianbadger1 at 1:10 PM on July 22
I don't use Yelp because of their shady practice of extorting restaurants, and allowing restaurants to pay to have genuine bad reviews taken down. At least Google reviews is agnostic in this sense.
posted by indianbadger1 at 1:10 PM on July 22
As someone who travels a decent amount for work, I’ve always found Yelp reasonably useful for finding places to eat when I’m in an unfamiliar location and want to try something that isn’t that town’s take on a Texas Roadhouse or Olive Garden. While individual reviews may be petty or entitled, I’ve found the cumulative weight to be a fairly decent gauge and have found some gems in various locations around the globe from using Yelp.
I will say though, the Yelp “friends” feature has alerted me that I have a decent amount of friends and acquaintances who are kind of entitled divas. Like my former boss, who left a negative review of a team dinner we had last year at a crowded, popular restaurant in a busy metropolitan area because the service was a little slow. In fairness, the service wasn’t stellar, but there was a “Don’t you know who I am?” tone to the whole thing and I’m kind of doubting that this restaurant is at risk of going out of business for losing this one lady’s patronage as the review implied. Or the friend where every review is high on drama, mostly one or five star reviews, everything is either the best or worst experience of his life (mostly the latter). I always think of the “You run into an asshole in the morning…” bit from “Justified” whenever I read his reviews.
posted by The Gooch at 1:56 PM on July 22 [2 favorites]
I will say though, the Yelp “friends” feature has alerted me that I have a decent amount of friends and acquaintances who are kind of entitled divas. Like my former boss, who left a negative review of a team dinner we had last year at a crowded, popular restaurant in a busy metropolitan area because the service was a little slow. In fairness, the service wasn’t stellar, but there was a “Don’t you know who I am?” tone to the whole thing and I’m kind of doubting that this restaurant is at risk of going out of business for losing this one lady’s patronage as the review implied. Or the friend where every review is high on drama, mostly one or five star reviews, everything is either the best or worst experience of his life (mostly the latter). I always think of the “You run into an asshole in the morning…” bit from “Justified” whenever I read his reviews.
posted by The Gooch at 1:56 PM on July 22 [2 favorites]
If I were to quote what any of my dozens of comrades in the San Francisco food & beverage industry routinely say about Yelp and Yelp reviewers it would be deleted here immediately.
If I were to quote what we actually thought about the people actively trying to get us fired because we didn’t bring their supplementary ketchup with sufficient obsequiousness I’d likely get banned.
Yelp is a plague.
posted by hototogisu at 2:18 PM on July 22 [9 favorites]
If I were to quote what we actually thought about the people actively trying to get us fired because we didn’t bring their supplementary ketchup with sufficient obsequiousness I’d likely get banned.
Yelp is a plague.
posted by hototogisu at 2:18 PM on July 22 [9 favorites]
I like how this article talks about the impact on the culture at large. We are being trained to think of every experience as consumers and in terms of reviews and ratings.
posted by latkes at 2:31 PM on July 22 [5 favorites]
posted by latkes at 2:31 PM on July 22 [5 favorites]
The doordash guy could deliver me a box of angry wasps instead of burger, and the wasps could be cold and I'd still rate them five stars. I'm not ratting a worker out to the corp.
posted by pattern juggler at 2:51 PM on July 22 [12 favorites]
posted by pattern juggler at 2:51 PM on July 22 [12 favorites]
I refuse to use Yelp for restaurants because I believe people have horrible taste.
posted by misterpatrick at 3:41 PM on July 22 [4 favorites]
posted by misterpatrick at 3:41 PM on July 22 [4 favorites]
I too prefer hot wasps to cold.
posted by hototogisu at 3:57 PM on July 22 [5 favorites]
posted by hototogisu at 3:57 PM on July 22 [5 favorites]
i have travelled enough for work shit that climate change is probably mainly attributable to flights i took in 2014/15 (sorry y'all) and i can report that there is no need to consult yelp in order to eat, even in places where i don't even know how to recognise any of the written or spoken language and even as someone who doesn't eat a bunch of stuff. hototogisu explains why!
seems as good a place as any for this.
posted by busted_crayons at 4:09 PM on July 22 [4 favorites]
seems as good a place as any for this.
posted by busted_crayons at 4:09 PM on July 22 [4 favorites]
I refuse to use Yelp for restaurants because I believe people have horrible taste.
100% this. Ditto any sort of review aggregator. Rotten Tomatoes is a plague, and Metacritic only slightly less bad. Wisdom of the crowd simply doesnt work unless you’re looking for the safest blandest pablum imaginable. (Though sometimes that’s necessary…) It’s why i like following specific people on Letterboxd, or finding Kenji’s Seattle recommendations, or following coffee experts for cafe and roaster suggestions. I know what i’m getting from a reviewer -> i know what i’m going to get from a movie/restaurant/cafe.
posted by supercres at 4:27 PM on July 22 [2 favorites]
100% this. Ditto any sort of review aggregator. Rotten Tomatoes is a plague, and Metacritic only slightly less bad. Wisdom of the crowd simply doesnt work unless you’re looking for the safest blandest pablum imaginable. (Though sometimes that’s necessary…) It’s why i like following specific people on Letterboxd, or finding Kenji’s Seattle recommendations, or following coffee experts for cafe and roaster suggestions. I know what i’m getting from a reviewer -> i know what i’m going to get from a movie/restaurant/cafe.
posted by supercres at 4:27 PM on July 22 [2 favorites]
The problem of the internet is that it's given everyone with a little cash the idea that if everything isn't the most magnificent of its kind you're being shortchanged and cannot possibly enjoy it or benefit from it.
In my experience, one of the most consistent failure modes of all kinds of reviews/criticism, whether that's of media like a movie or an establishment like a restaurant, is failing to meet the thing on its terms and/or failing to understand its context. So like, you can't trust a one-star review of a horror movie that's giving it one star because the person hates horror movies; the review is effectively useless. Similarly, you can't trust a one-star review of the local cheap sandwich place or whatever if it's expecting local cheap sandwich place to deliver food and an experience comparable to somewhere 3-4x as expensive. Review it for what it is! "Four stars, the sandwiches are decent for the price point and the quality is reliable" is a far more helpful and useful review than "the sandwiches are terrible, they're not nearly as good as [insert Michelin starred restaurant here], one star."
Anyway, generally speaking, I find hotel reviews from actual people most helpful, because they'll often include little details that might not necessarily make it into the amenities list or the provided photos, but that are very useful to know, particularly accessibility or just vibes-related stuff, and that's why I leave hotel reviews too. Also they'll sometimes tip you off to local conditions during a certain time range, always helpful when you're traveling somewhere totally new.
posted by yasaman at 6:07 PM on July 22
In my experience, one of the most consistent failure modes of all kinds of reviews/criticism, whether that's of media like a movie or an establishment like a restaurant, is failing to meet the thing on its terms and/or failing to understand its context. So like, you can't trust a one-star review of a horror movie that's giving it one star because the person hates horror movies; the review is effectively useless. Similarly, you can't trust a one-star review of the local cheap sandwich place or whatever if it's expecting local cheap sandwich place to deliver food and an experience comparable to somewhere 3-4x as expensive. Review it for what it is! "Four stars, the sandwiches are decent for the price point and the quality is reliable" is a far more helpful and useful review than "the sandwiches are terrible, they're not nearly as good as [insert Michelin starred restaurant here], one star."
Anyway, generally speaking, I find hotel reviews from actual people most helpful, because they'll often include little details that might not necessarily make it into the amenities list or the provided photos, but that are very useful to know, particularly accessibility or just vibes-related stuff, and that's why I leave hotel reviews too. Also they'll sometimes tip you off to local conditions during a certain time range, always helpful when you're traveling somewhere totally new.
posted by yasaman at 6:07 PM on July 22
I think the problem people run into on Rotten Tomatoes is assuming that a 90% fresh means a movie is a 9/10 in quality. That's specifically not what it means. It means nine out of ten critics had a relatively positive take on it. So, for instance, ME3GAN had a sky high RT score but not because anyone seemed to think to was perfect, but because a safe majority of reviewers were mildly positive on it. Nine out of ten probably gave it three out of five stars.
RT is fine, but you can't treat it as a single metric that tells you everything. You still have to read reviews and consider the sources. I still find it highly useful for the way it aggregates the prevailing vibe and for the way I can click through to see top critics in quick blurb/rating format.
I sort of have mental adjustments based on genre though. 80% fresh for horror? That's sky high, when you account for the critics who discount the genre. Super high score for an Oscar bait drama aimed at people 50 and up? Yeah, I'm gonna need to see some supporting reviews that are very convincing. Etc, etc.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:07 PM on July 22 [1 favorite]
RT is fine, but you can't treat it as a single metric that tells you everything. You still have to read reviews and consider the sources. I still find it highly useful for the way it aggregates the prevailing vibe and for the way I can click through to see top critics in quick blurb/rating format.
I sort of have mental adjustments based on genre though. 80% fresh for horror? That's sky high, when you account for the critics who discount the genre. Super high score for an Oscar bait drama aimed at people 50 and up? Yeah, I'm gonna need to see some supporting reviews that are very convincing. Etc, etc.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:07 PM on July 22 [1 favorite]
my favorite review remains one highlighted by John Oliver for Wolf of Wall Street:
1 star, there were no wolves in this movie
posted by HearHere at 10:14 PM on July 22 [3 favorites]
1 star, there were no wolves in this movie
posted by HearHere at 10:14 PM on July 22 [3 favorites]
My fucking bank keeps asking me to rate their app. I mean, what other options do their customers have? Why would a non-customer of theirs want the app? WHY does it need a rating?
(Ratings for apps people need to use are always "app used to work great but since the last update feature xyz no longer does things" and similar.)
posted by maxwelton at 12:40 AM on July 23
(Ratings for apps people need to use are always "app used to work great but since the last update feature xyz no longer does things" and similar.)
posted by maxwelton at 12:40 AM on July 23
I actually get less annoyed about reviews for things I have to use - if you're going to force me to use them, at least be trying to make them good, and give me an opportunity to tell you how much I hate having to use it. Plus I don't have to worry about an app being fired or put out of business if I give it a bad review.
posted by trig at 1:15 AM on July 23
posted by trig at 1:15 AM on July 23
I actually get less annoyed about reviews for things I have to use - if you're going to force me to use them, at least be trying to make them good, and give me an opportunity to tell you how much I hate having to use it.
That's a good reason to collect feedback, but it doesn't have to be public (which "review" implies to me). If you're soliciting public-facing reviews, I'm not assuming you're genuinely looking for feedback.
posted by Dysk at 1:49 AM on July 23 [1 favorite]
That's a good reason to collect feedback, but it doesn't have to be public (which "review" implies to me). If you're soliciting public-facing reviews, I'm not assuming you're genuinely looking for feedback.
posted by Dysk at 1:49 AM on July 23 [1 favorite]
On platforms like AirB&B there is a degree of redress in that reviewing can be mutual: maybe the place stank but maybe the guest stank even more. For sure, restaurant diners -at least those who are either wonderful or awful - get reviewed by the staff. Sometimes it seems a shame that we never get a chance to see those reviews.
posted by rongorongo at 3:27 AM on July 23
posted by rongorongo at 3:27 AM on July 23
My favorite is the panel with the three physical buttons, red yellow and green, asking you to rate your public bathroom experience. How clean was this bathroom? If it's "red", I'm not touching anything!
posted by gimonca at 3:58 AM on July 23
posted by gimonca at 3:58 AM on July 23
Actual written reviews on dedicated travel sites can be useful. Booking.com, Tripadvisor, Expedia to an extent. When the number of reviews builds up into the dozens or hundreds, it's a lot easier to discount the individual troll. Some of these sites have built up enough info that you can search the reviews by keyword and get useful info about a single topic that's important to you. It becomes less about a good/bad choice based on five stars and more about finding the spot that's good for your needs or preferences.
posted by gimonca at 4:14 AM on July 23
posted by gimonca at 4:14 AM on July 23
I'm not ratting a worker out to the corp.
Also, this. If it's a situation where I'm being asked to rate a frontline worker, they're getting the best rating from me, or else I quietly skip it. I'd never (almost never?) give a person a one-star or low rating in this situation.
posted by gimonca at 4:17 AM on July 23 [3 favorites]
Also, this. If it's a situation where I'm being asked to rate a frontline worker, they're getting the best rating from me, or else I quietly skip it. I'd never (almost never?) give a person a one-star or low rating in this situation.
posted by gimonca at 4:17 AM on July 23 [3 favorites]
Ugh. I went to see my doc late last week and, after the appointment was done, I got two emails from the healthcare group asking me to rate both the NP I saw and the person who made the appointment for me. Jeez.
And, of course, the way these things tend to work, if you don’t give the person absolutely top-notch rankings, they get dinged by management. Ludicrous bullshit.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:35 AM on July 23 [2 favorites]
And, of course, the way these things tend to work, if you don’t give the person absolutely top-notch rankings, they get dinged by management. Ludicrous bullshit.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:35 AM on July 23 [2 favorites]
I remember a "Pooch Cafe" cartoon where the owner throws a ball and Poncho (the dog) retrieves it but doesn't drop the ball, instead waiting expectantly. The owner sighs, pulls out his phone, and enters "Poncho: five stars."
posted by texorama at 4:50 AM on July 23 [3 favorites]
posted by texorama at 4:50 AM on July 23 [3 favorites]
I'm not ratting a worker out to the corp.
relatedly, the correct tip in places where the system is that tipping is a significant part of anyone's compensation is: your own income pro-rated to the amount of time it took to prepare and serve your food (assuming a hypothetical reasonable work week if you're salaried) or, if you get paid less than what those preparing and serving the food are paid, then tip whatever you think is reasonable, as long as it's an algorithm you apply irrespective of anything particular to that occasion. if you have a problem with something, give actual feedback to the actual person, after giving them their money.
so like if you are a financial wanker and "work" 60 hours/week and make $200K/year, then the computation goes: forget the 60 hours, your workweek is 40 and you have to assume no working on public holidays and annual leave is unpaid for the purpose of this calculation, so your pay is maybe 200,000/1800, i.e. like $110/hr. so then if the process of ordering and receiving your food takes a total of 1/2 hour, the correct tip is actually $55, irrespective of the price on the menu.
if following this procedure makes you a worse tipper than the more traditional X% of price of meal methods, then at that price, presumably whatever you are eating is making you shit actual precious metals, and in this one case please do leave a review on the internet so we too know where to go to get the midas squinch.
also unless you take a current professional interest in the matter (i.e. working in food service in the distant past and now being a financial wanker does not count) if you know what people even mean when they say "the ✨service✨ was good/bad" then please unlearn that shit, eat your food, and exit.
posted by busted_crayons at 4:53 AM on July 23 [2 favorites]
relatedly, the correct tip in places where the system is that tipping is a significant part of anyone's compensation is: your own income pro-rated to the amount of time it took to prepare and serve your food (assuming a hypothetical reasonable work week if you're salaried) or, if you get paid less than what those preparing and serving the food are paid, then tip whatever you think is reasonable, as long as it's an algorithm you apply irrespective of anything particular to that occasion. if you have a problem with something, give actual feedback to the actual person, after giving them their money.
so like if you are a financial wanker and "work" 60 hours/week and make $200K/year, then the computation goes: forget the 60 hours, your workweek is 40 and you have to assume no working on public holidays and annual leave is unpaid for the purpose of this calculation, so your pay is maybe 200,000/1800, i.e. like $110/hr. so then if the process of ordering and receiving your food takes a total of 1/2 hour, the correct tip is actually $55, irrespective of the price on the menu.
if following this procedure makes you a worse tipper than the more traditional X% of price of meal methods, then at that price, presumably whatever you are eating is making you shit actual precious metals, and in this one case please do leave a review on the internet so we too know where to go to get the midas squinch.
also unless you take a current professional interest in the matter (i.e. working in food service in the distant past and now being a financial wanker does not count) if you know what people even mean when they say "the ✨service✨ was good/bad" then please unlearn that shit, eat your food, and exit.
posted by busted_crayons at 4:53 AM on July 23 [2 favorites]
That's a good reason to collect feedback, but it doesn't have to be public (which "review" implies to me)
Yeah, you're right. I think I was conflating them since they feel similar in terms of UI/UX annoyance and I do tend to tune them out in the same way.
posted by trig at 4:55 AM on July 23
Yeah, you're right. I think I was conflating them since they feel similar in terms of UI/UX annoyance and I do tend to tune them out in the same way.
posted by trig at 4:55 AM on July 23
On platforms like AirB&B there is a degree of redress in that reviewing can be mutual: maybe the place stank but maybe the guest stank even more. For sure, restaurant diners -at least those who are either wonderful or awful - get reviewed by the staff. Sometimes it seems a shame that we never get a chance to see those reviews.
We do sometimes - sometimes you'll see a business owner arguing with every bad review and maligning the reviewer. But in those cases, whether the things they're saying are accurate or not, the owners are creating a public interaction that I can review for myself, and their treatment of the reviewer always comes off badly to me. It must be really frustrating for business owners, but I think most people reading reviews don't want to see "this reviewer is wrong", they want "if you are my customer the bad things this reviewer mentions will not happen to you and we would make it up to you if they did".
posted by trig at 5:05 AM on July 23
We do sometimes - sometimes you'll see a business owner arguing with every bad review and maligning the reviewer. But in those cases, whether the things they're saying are accurate or not, the owners are creating a public interaction that I can review for myself, and their treatment of the reviewer always comes off badly to me. It must be really frustrating for business owners, but I think most people reading reviews don't want to see "this reviewer is wrong", they want "if you are my customer the bad things this reviewer mentions will not happen to you and we would make it up to you if they did".
posted by trig at 5:05 AM on July 23
If it's a situation where I'm being asked to rate a frontline worker, they're getting the best rating from me, or else I quietly skip it. I'd never (almost never?) give a person a one-star or low rating in this situation.Yes - the scale is interpreted by management in a binary way so: chatbots always get the worst rating possible. People get a one if they lie or are extremely rude (like at the level of hitting on customers, making religious pitches, or displaying Trump paraphernalia); otherwise they get a 5. Lying is complicated because you have to consider whether they were required to do so by company policy, so round up if you can’t tell.
posted by adamsc at 5:31 AM on July 23 [2 favorites]
My fucking bank keeps asking me to rate their app. I mean, what other options do their customers have? Why would a non-customer of theirs want the app? WHY does it need a rating?
Plus, publicly connecting yourself with the possibly buggy bank app via a review or rating is just one more possible financial attack vector. No fucking way, thank you very much.
posted by mubba at 5:45 AM on July 23 [1 favorite]
Plus, publicly connecting yourself with the possibly buggy bank app via a review or rating is just one more possible financial attack vector. No fucking way, thank you very much.
posted by mubba at 5:45 AM on July 23 [1 favorite]
Hey busted_crayons, that was long but a worthwhile read, thanks!
posted by freethefeet at 6:10 AM on July 23 [3 favorites]
posted by freethefeet at 6:10 AM on July 23 [3 favorites]
IMO, I'm not sure 3rd party rating apps would have had the growth they have if modern customer service wasn't insincere politeness until a customer actually asks for something to remedy a problem, and then immediately switches to "no, screw off".
Used to be if you have a problem with a company, say it on Twitter, not to their customer service reps.
I'm not sure mom and pop restaurants deserve the most ire, but that's the system we've got.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:12 AM on July 23 [1 favorite]
Used to be if you have a problem with a company, say it on Twitter, not to their customer service reps.
I'm not sure mom and pop restaurants deserve the most ire, but that's the system we've got.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:12 AM on July 23 [1 favorite]
Ugh. I went to see my doc late last week and, after the appointment was done, I got two emails from the healthcare group asking me to rate both the NP I saw and the person who made the appointment for me. Jeez.
And, of course, the way these things tend to work, if you don’t give the person absolutely top-notch rankings, they get dinged by management. Ludicrous bullshit.
I work for a major hospital/clinic. We get so few reviews/ratings, even on our internal systems, that one bad one can really pull the score down. I’m talking about a clinic that sees maybe 4000 patients per month gets ~80 ratings, and even fewer reviews. Negative feedback means our check-in personnel might not get raises the next year, and since we start people at less than $15 an hour (the local Starbucks and Costco make more!) it’s a really big deal. Lack of positive feedback has the same effect. It’s made me really conscientious about rating people every time I get a chance, even when it’s annoying.
posted by Night_owl at 11:38 AM on July 23 [1 favorite]
And, of course, the way these things tend to work, if you don’t give the person absolutely top-notch rankings, they get dinged by management. Ludicrous bullshit.
I work for a major hospital/clinic. We get so few reviews/ratings, even on our internal systems, that one bad one can really pull the score down. I’m talking about a clinic that sees maybe 4000 patients per month gets ~80 ratings, and even fewer reviews. Negative feedback means our check-in personnel might not get raises the next year, and since we start people at less than $15 an hour (the local Starbucks and Costco make more!) it’s a really big deal. Lack of positive feedback has the same effect. It’s made me really conscientious about rating people every time I get a chance, even when it’s annoying.
posted by Night_owl at 11:38 AM on July 23 [1 favorite]
I was in a thread about this somewhere else a while back, and I was absolutely staggered at just how toxic the whole “please rate my service” system is.
When somebody tells you “if you don’t give me all 10s you might as well have given me all 1s” they aren’t lying. That’s literally how those survey metric systems work. They aren’t supposed to tell you that, but boy do I ever understand why they do. I trust any of us can see what’s wrong with putting our professional fates into the hands of random members of the public who have no gauge for how to respond if they’re responding in good faith at all, over transactions happening under messy real-world conditions. But apparently even not replying is potentially held against the worker, because they are also measured on successfully soliciting responses.
Suppose every time you interacted with a service worker they were required to hand you two envelopes, and you were required to select one of them as a condition of service. After the transaction the worker opens it in front of you. Usually both are empty, but sometimes one of them contains a pink slip. How comfortable would you be with that process? Does it make you feel any better if you get to leave before the worker opens the envelope? That’s basically what this system does, but dressed up in a veneer of numerical objectivity.
I fucking hate this so much. I don’t consent to having some incompetent manager fractionally offloading his bad personnel decisions onto me, using my response or lack of response as part of a case that may or may not be built against someone who may or may not deserve it. I don’t want to be a part of the toxic diffusion-of-responsibility machine, but I also don’t want to go live in a cave and eat bugs. At least not quite yet.
posted by gelfin at 12:42 PM on July 23 [9 favorites]
When somebody tells you “if you don’t give me all 10s you might as well have given me all 1s” they aren’t lying. That’s literally how those survey metric systems work. They aren’t supposed to tell you that, but boy do I ever understand why they do. I trust any of us can see what’s wrong with putting our professional fates into the hands of random members of the public who have no gauge for how to respond if they’re responding in good faith at all, over transactions happening under messy real-world conditions. But apparently even not replying is potentially held against the worker, because they are also measured on successfully soliciting responses.
Suppose every time you interacted with a service worker they were required to hand you two envelopes, and you were required to select one of them as a condition of service. After the transaction the worker opens it in front of you. Usually both are empty, but sometimes one of them contains a pink slip. How comfortable would you be with that process? Does it make you feel any better if you get to leave before the worker opens the envelope? That’s basically what this system does, but dressed up in a veneer of numerical objectivity.
I fucking hate this so much. I don’t consent to having some incompetent manager fractionally offloading his bad personnel decisions onto me, using my response or lack of response as part of a case that may or may not be built against someone who may or may not deserve it. I don’t want to be a part of the toxic diffusion-of-responsibility machine, but I also don’t want to go live in a cave and eat bugs. At least not quite yet.
posted by gelfin at 12:42 PM on July 23 [9 favorites]
When somebody tells you “if you don’t give me all 10s you might as well have given me all 1s” they aren’t lying. That’s literally how those survey metric systems work. They aren’t supposed to tell you that, but boy do I ever understand why they do.
In the data I've seen, the options are all 1s (bad) or all 10s (good), and any other number in between is pointless. The ratings are trying to determine NPS - net promoter score. 1s are detractors, 2-9 are 'meh' and 10 is 'promoter'. Is that dumb? yes. Is that how statistics work? No. Are people actually interested in literally advocating for businesses? Most of us are not.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:34 PM on July 23 [4 favorites]
In the data I've seen, the options are all 1s (bad) or all 10s (good), and any other number in between is pointless. The ratings are trying to determine NPS - net promoter score. 1s are detractors, 2-9 are 'meh' and 10 is 'promoter'. Is that dumb? yes. Is that how statistics work? No. Are people actually interested in literally advocating for businesses? Most of us are not.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:34 PM on July 23 [4 favorites]
I refuse to use Yelp for restaurants because I believe people have horrible taste.'
My original comment had something to this effect, but I removed it. Since the gloves are off, I will go one step further: most people don't have good taste and even if they do, they don't have cultivated tastes. That is, they don't understand whether what they are getting is merely competent and well-executed vs. something truly exceptional. A professional critic understands the finer distinction because they do it for a living. Same thing with movies. I'm not interested in the consensus on whether something is "good" or "bad", I'm interested in the opinion of a person who has seen in upwards of 1000 movies.
Ratings on service are even worse than food. People's seem to have wildly high expectations and to be treated like royals. The phrase "Sir, this is a Wendy's" comes to mind.
posted by borges at 1:46 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]
My original comment had something to this effect, but I removed it. Since the gloves are off, I will go one step further: most people don't have good taste and even if they do, they don't have cultivated tastes. That is, they don't understand whether what they are getting is merely competent and well-executed vs. something truly exceptional. A professional critic understands the finer distinction because they do it for a living. Same thing with movies. I'm not interested in the consensus on whether something is "good" or "bad", I'm interested in the opinion of a person who has seen in upwards of 1000 movies.
Ratings on service are even worse than food. People's seem to have wildly high expectations and to be treated like royals. The phrase "Sir, this is a Wendy's" comes to mind.
posted by borges at 1:46 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]
The guy who towed my car today (to a dealer for repair, at my request), when he called me to let me know he had dropped it off, closed the call with, "They're going to send you a link for a review, if you can give a good one it would really help me out." The link was to post a Google review, and I don't have a Google account, and I'm not going to make one for the purpose of giving free advertising to a tow truck service even though they did just fine.
posted by Daily Alice at 1:48 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]
posted by Daily Alice at 1:48 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]
if we could have reviews without the star/rating system built-in, i’d be a lot happier. just tell me what i should know about this place and leave your inevitably idiosyncratic scoring out of it.
the “5 star” system seems to me to be one of those functions that serves a manager far more than it serves the end user because everyone’s internalized that you need to have quantifiable numeric data to see how well you’re doing. KPIs, people! but does it actually help me to see that someone rated the hotel 5 stars if they add in their review that the towels were scratchy? nope, i just want to know whether to bring my own towel, couldn’t care less whether this person’s own experience was 5 stars or not. you know?
posted by a flock of goslings at 3:40 PM on July 23
the “5 star” system seems to me to be one of those functions that serves a manager far more than it serves the end user because everyone’s internalized that you need to have quantifiable numeric data to see how well you’re doing. KPIs, people! but does it actually help me to see that someone rated the hotel 5 stars if they add in their review that the towels were scratchy? nope, i just want to know whether to bring my own towel, couldn’t care less whether this person’s own experience was 5 stars or not. you know?
posted by a flock of goslings at 3:40 PM on July 23
If I were to quote what any of my dozens of comrades in the San Francisco food & beverage industry routinely say about Yelp and Yelp reviewers it would be deleted here immediately.
My little sister worked at a high end restaurant in the complex of two big office towers full of law firms, the apple satellite office, banks, hedge fund stuff etc. A three martini lunch kind of place that had aspirations of being rated as more, kind of vibe.
They kept a big wall in the back with every negative yelp review, and would try and pin them under photos of which staff member they were about and would abuse the servers/hosts to tears over it multiple times a week.
I've never wished i was part of a successful ransomware crew more than the moment she came out crying and explained that bullshit.
I know so many people who have been fired over a single yelp review, even ones who suspected(or even could circumstantially prove) that they were written by coworkers/managers who disliked them. A common sentiment is that their offices will be sacked like fucking rome during any future uprising/civil war/revolution.
posted by emptythought at 6:16 PM on July 23 [8 favorites]
My little sister worked at a high end restaurant in the complex of two big office towers full of law firms, the apple satellite office, banks, hedge fund stuff etc. A three martini lunch kind of place that had aspirations of being rated as more, kind of vibe.
They kept a big wall in the back with every negative yelp review, and would try and pin them under photos of which staff member they were about and would abuse the servers/hosts to tears over it multiple times a week.
I've never wished i was part of a successful ransomware crew more than the moment she came out crying and explained that bullshit.
I know so many people who have been fired over a single yelp review, even ones who suspected(or even could circumstantially prove) that they were written by coworkers/managers who disliked them. A common sentiment is that their offices will be sacked like fucking rome during any future uprising/civil war/revolution.
posted by emptythought at 6:16 PM on July 23 [8 favorites]
For online ratings to mean anything, you would have to make the software smarter and track more user data. For example, when rating movies:
1. The opinions of a 13-year-old boy might not be all that helpful to a 63-year-old woman, other than to let her know what to avoid (or to answer her question about what 13-year-old boys watch these days). I want to be able to filter everything by rater characteristics.
2. Rate everything relatively and categorically. Not 1 to 10 compared to all movies, but something like "You want to rate a [category] movie. Here's a list of popular other [category] movies. Drag them to sort them by how much you liked watching them." followed by "Now. compared to all of those movies, where would you place [movie you want to rate]? Drag it to the right spot in that list. You enjoyed watching it more than you enjoyed watching everything below it and less than everything above it."
posted by pracowity at 10:52 PM on July 23 [3 favorites]
1. The opinions of a 13-year-old boy might not be all that helpful to a 63-year-old woman, other than to let her know what to avoid (or to answer her question about what 13-year-old boys watch these days). I want to be able to filter everything by rater characteristics.
2. Rate everything relatively and categorically. Not 1 to 10 compared to all movies, but something like "You want to rate a [category] movie. Here's a list of popular other [category] movies. Drag them to sort them by how much you liked watching them." followed by "Now. compared to all of those movies, where would you place [movie you want to rate]? Drag it to the right spot in that list. You enjoyed watching it more than you enjoyed watching everything below it and less than everything above it."
posted by pracowity at 10:52 PM on July 23 [3 favorites]
A professional critic understands the finer distinction because they do it for a living.
Professional food critics are just like professional music critics: they taste 1000 different hamburgers and then an 'unobtanium' and they compare them, and because the 'unobtanium' tastes wildly different, they rate it higher. A 'professional hamburger critic' (far more narrow job responsibility) is probably going to get you a better hamburger than a generic 'food critic', but how many people would that require?
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:41 AM on July 24 [1 favorite]
Professional food critics are just like professional music critics: they taste 1000 different hamburgers and then an 'unobtanium' and they compare them, and because the 'unobtanium' tastes wildly different, they rate it higher. A 'professional hamburger critic' (far more narrow job responsibility) is probably going to get you a better hamburger than a generic 'food critic', but how many people would that require?
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:41 AM on July 24 [1 favorite]
Sometimes reviewing is mandatory, to get to the next screen. As gelfin noted above, I now just give the maximum stars everywhere 'cause I don't want anybody getting fired. And now, in the boxes demanding more info (Why did you...) I'm just typing in "Why not?"
posted by Rash at 12:51 PM on July 24 [1 favorite]
posted by Rash at 12:51 PM on July 24 [1 favorite]
Who is this written for? People who just never go to shops?
Well, this article was written for Eater, a restaurant-foodie web site, so....probably?
And something's just hit me: remember the Zagat guides? Those maroon books with a compilation of restaurant reviews? Those were crowdsourced too - but there was an editor who took the time to compile all the comments into one single review that mentioned the most common comments, pro and con, and distilled them into one overall review. Yelp came on the scene in the mid-aughts....and the Zagat guides started a slow fade soon after.
Maybe Yelp needs a Zagat approach?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:48 PM on July 26 [1 favorite]
Well, this article was written for Eater, a restaurant-foodie web site, so....probably?
And something's just hit me: remember the Zagat guides? Those maroon books with a compilation of restaurant reviews? Those were crowdsourced too - but there was an editor who took the time to compile all the comments into one single review that mentioned the most common comments, pro and con, and distilled them into one overall review. Yelp came on the scene in the mid-aughts....and the Zagat guides started a slow fade soon after.
Maybe Yelp needs a Zagat approach?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:48 PM on July 26 [1 favorite]
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posted by chavenet at 9:29 AM on July 22 [24 favorites]