Progress on open source E-ink tablet, the PineNote.
October 7, 2024 3:06 PM Subscribe
Progress on open source E-ink tablet, the PineNote. Finally firmware based on Linux Debian has been put together by developer Maximilian Weigand. It even runs Doom.
From an UK blog (where I first read about it):
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/10/pinenote-linux-powered-e-ink-tablet-returns
The PineNote now has a reliable Debian-based OS, developed by Maximilian Weigand. This is described as "not only a bare-bones capable OS but a genuinely daily-usable system that 'just works'" according to the Pine64 blog. ["This is excellent as it also moves the target audience from developers to every day users. You should be able to power on the device and drop into a working Gnome experience."] It is said to use the GNOME desktop plus a handful of extensions designed to ensure the UI adapts to working well with an e-ink display. Software pre-installed includes Xournal++ for note taking, Firefox for web browsing, and Foliate for reading ebooks, among others. [And it even runs Doom...]
...Touch and stylus input are major selling points of the PineNote, positioning it as a libre alternative to leading e-ink note-taking devices like...
From an UK blog (where I first read about it):
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/10/pinenote-linux-powered-e-ink-tablet-returns
The PineNote now has a reliable Debian-based OS, developed by Maximilian Weigand. This is described as "not only a bare-bones capable OS but a genuinely daily-usable system that 'just works'" according to the Pine64 blog. ["This is excellent as it also moves the target audience from developers to every day users. You should be able to power on the device and drop into a working Gnome experience."] It is said to use the GNOME desktop plus a handful of extensions designed to ensure the UI adapts to working well with an e-ink display. Software pre-installed includes Xournal++ for note taking, Firefox for web browsing, and Foliate for reading ebooks, among others. [And it even runs Doom...]
...Touch and stylus input are major selling points of the PineNote, positioning it as a libre alternative to leading e-ink note-taking devices like...
May they get popular enough to bring out other models!
posted by aleph at 3:42 PM on October 7 [1 favorite]
posted by aleph at 3:42 PM on October 7 [1 favorite]
Oh, this is nice! Not just an open-source eink tablet, but an open-source tablet!
Right now the best option for an open-ish e-ink device seems to be Onyx Boox,
My dream is a(n eink) tablet that isn't constantly phoning home, that I don't have to take defensive measures against
posted by trig at 6:18 PM on October 7 [3 favorites]
Right now the best option for an open-ish e-ink device seems to be Onyx Boox,
My dream is a(n eink) tablet that isn't constantly phoning home, that I don't have to take defensive measures against
posted by trig at 6:18 PM on October 7 [3 favorites]
This is very interesting to me, and it sounds like it'll be available imminently.
It tickles me that I'm reading this on my iPad with the same Logitech keyboard as they're using. We both even still have the syncing sticker attached.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:36 PM on October 7
It tickles me that I'm reading this on my iPad with the same Logitech keyboard as they're using. We both even still have the syncing sticker attached.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:36 PM on October 7
I like this size - the last version was around 300$ which was the only reason I didn't get one. I get the doom thing but I am primarily interested battery life/energy efficiency. Right now it looks like the parasitic drain is roughly 10% of battery per day in suspended mode.
Very interesting work being done here.
posted by zenon at 6:42 PM on October 7
Very interesting work being done here.
posted by zenon at 6:42 PM on October 7
I want to believe! But sad to say my pine64 notebook is bricked, and the pinephone is not that useful as an actual phone, and the pinetime watch, although quite inexpensive, doesn't have a heart rate monitor that's accurate at all. So I may wait on this one and see what happens. I do want an e-ink linux table one day...
posted by Ansible at 7:15 PM on October 7 [3 favorites]
posted by Ansible at 7:15 PM on October 7 [3 favorites]
Let me know when it's A4-sized.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 8:40 PM on October 7 [2 favorites]
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 8:40 PM on October 7 [2 favorites]
While I understand the leeriness here I do enjoy my Onyx Boox, the functionality of which has improved greatly over a series of firmware updates. I have like a 7" version which is too small for reading full-page pdfs but the larger ones are considerably more expensive and less portable. The refresh rate is probably the biggest drawback: using it with Bluetooth mouse and keyboard requires some patience.
posted by St. Oops at 9:25 PM on October 7
posted by St. Oops at 9:25 PM on October 7
It is hard not to notice a studious indifference to discussing refresh rates in e-ink projects. A lot of things can "play Doom" at <5(? <10?) fps at some of the tinier possible window sizes; why would anyone suppress refresh data if it was a selling point?
posted by Earthtopus at 9:41 PM on October 7 [2 favorites]
posted by Earthtopus at 9:41 PM on October 7 [2 favorites]
I'd like to see an improvement in product quality for price among companies that make hardware that runs Linux, before I invest in any other devices.
I was especially disappointed in Puri.sm, pricey as all get-out and poor support, and from one of the comments above I see that Pine's quality ain't that great either.
Are any companies out there producing quality Linux devices at affordable prices?
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 2:20 AM on October 8
I was especially disappointed in Puri.sm, pricey as all get-out and poor support, and from one of the comments above I see that Pine's quality ain't that great either.
Are any companies out there producing quality Linux devices at affordable prices?
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 2:20 AM on October 8
trig: Oh, this is nice! Not just an open-source eink tablet, but an open-source tablet!
That exists. I have a Pinetab2 right here. It is running Ubuntu Touch, my mobile Linux-based OS of choice. I haven't used it much yet, but the build quality is very nice.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:17 AM on October 8 [1 favorite]
That exists. I have a Pinetab2 right here. It is running Ubuntu Touch, my mobile Linux-based OS of choice. I haven't used it much yet, but the build quality is very nice.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:17 AM on October 8 [1 favorite]
rabia.elizabeth: Are any companies out there producing quality Linux devices at affordable prices?
System76 makes some great stuff. Their desktops are designed/built by them, though I believe they're still using Clevo hardware for their laptops. But their support and testing are fantastic.
posted by fader at 6:40 AM on October 8
System76 makes some great stuff. Their desktops are designed/built by them, though I believe they're still using Clevo hardware for their laptops. But their support and testing are fantastic.
posted by fader at 6:40 AM on October 8
Cool, I'm always happy to see companies continuing to work on open hardware.
However, anyone looking to buy hardware from Pine64 should take a long long long look at what they actually do as a company. They produce "prototypes" for the community to add software, sometimes this looks like a company making devkits available, but the reality is they just throw things over the wall and it is up to you to figure it out.
For the Pinebook Pro this seems to have gone quite well, there are a lot of Linux distros. The original Pinebook? Very difficult to get software for.
Smaller stuff like the Pine Ox64 (that is a letter 'o' not a zero) is requiring volunteers in their free time fighting a SOC vendor to get any docs at all.
Hackable ereader - cool. Just be aware of what you are buying
posted by adventureloop at 6:54 AM on October 8 [2 favorites]
However, anyone looking to buy hardware from Pine64 should take a long long long look at what they actually do as a company. They produce "prototypes" for the community to add software, sometimes this looks like a company making devkits available, but the reality is they just throw things over the wall and it is up to you to figure it out.
For the Pinebook Pro this seems to have gone quite well, there are a lot of Linux distros. The original Pinebook? Very difficult to get software for.
Smaller stuff like the Pine Ox64 (that is a letter 'o' not a zero) is requiring volunteers in their free time fighting a SOC vendor to get any docs at all.
Hackable ereader - cool. Just be aware of what you are buying
posted by adventureloop at 6:54 AM on October 8 [2 favorites]
the reality is they just throw things over the wall and it is up to you to figure it out
Hardware is stupidly expensive to develop and troubleshoot. I remember updates from the Keyboardio Kickstarter where they responded to the question "aren't you worried somebody else will come along and steal your ideas?" Their response was basically, "we wish they would, because they might be able to make the hardware more cheaply than we can, and we'd love just to be able to buy it without doing all this work."
From my perspective one of the best things to come out of this project could just be a reliable open source way to handle e-ink displays that could then be picked up by anybody who wants to create a device that uses one. I think every review of every e-reader that uses Android has a bit about how you can run whatever piece of Android software on it, but it won't be adapted to the e-ink display and will have problems as a result. It'd be really nice if there were a lower level set of drivers for e-ink displays that handled all the refresh rules so individual apps didn't have to.
posted by fedward at 8:40 AM on October 8 [1 favorite]
Hardware is stupidly expensive to develop and troubleshoot. I remember updates from the Keyboardio Kickstarter where they responded to the question "aren't you worried somebody else will come along and steal your ideas?" Their response was basically, "we wish they would, because they might be able to make the hardware more cheaply than we can, and we'd love just to be able to buy it without doing all this work."
From my perspective one of the best things to come out of this project could just be a reliable open source way to handle e-ink displays that could then be picked up by anybody who wants to create a device that uses one. I think every review of every e-reader that uses Android has a bit about how you can run whatever piece of Android software on it, but it won't be adapted to the e-ink display and will have problems as a result. It'd be really nice if there were a lower level set of drivers for e-ink displays that handled all the refresh rules so individual apps didn't have to.
posted by fedward at 8:40 AM on October 8 [1 favorite]
On the subject of e-ink, there was a Russian-made cell phone, the YotaPhone, with a secondary e-ink screen on the back. I had a friend with one and it was so cool. Seemed genuinely useful.
For some reason I always get excited when I see e-ink in the wild. I love it at bus stops and info panels in pedestrian zones. Always glad to see more e-ink around.
posted by msbrauer at 8:57 AM on October 8
For some reason I always get excited when I see e-ink in the wild. I love it at bus stops and info panels in pedestrian zones. Always glad to see more e-ink around.
posted by msbrauer at 8:57 AM on October 8
However, anyone looking to buy hardware from Pine64 should take a long long long look at what they actually do as a company. They produce "prototypes" for the community to add software, sometimes this looks like a company making devkits available, but the reality is they just throw things over the wall and it is up to you to figure it out.
Yup. I bought a Pine laptop for $200 a few years ago and have not been able to do that much with it,.
posted by ocschwar at 9:14 AM on October 8 [1 favorite]
Yup. I bought a Pine laptop for $200 a few years ago and have not been able to do that much with it,.
posted by ocschwar at 9:14 AM on October 8 [1 favorite]
"It'd be really nice if there were a lower level set of drivers for e-ink displays that handled all the refresh rules so individual apps didn't have to."
And emulated a standard graphics library.
posted by aleph at 9:56 AM on October 8
And emulated a standard graphics library.
posted by aleph at 9:56 AM on October 8
It's important to note that due to the constraints of their overall funding model and organisation, a lot of these Pine64 devices are just white-label devices from a hardware standpoint. This isn't anything particularly damning: this has been a large sector of the tech gadget industry forever, and over the past decade has grown to cover objects like this. We're no longer in an era when "We sell a computer that fits in your pocket!" means that it's a single vertically-integrated manufacturer who pushed the state of the art.
The PineNote, however, is directly interesting to me, because I absolutely am interested in a non-bleeding-edge e-ink tablet that runs Debian or something in a way that doesn't have horrible rough edges on either the UX side or the upgrades/OS integration side. I want something I know I can get a shell on, don't need to get a shell on, and know I can upgrade to the latest kernel when a security update comes out.
Oh, and battery life. Give me a slower device with muuuch longer battery life, please.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 12:00 PM on October 8
The PineNote, however, is directly interesting to me, because I absolutely am interested in a non-bleeding-edge e-ink tablet that runs Debian or something in a way that doesn't have horrible rough edges on either the UX side or the upgrades/OS integration side. I want something I know I can get a shell on, don't need to get a shell on, and know I can upgrade to the latest kernel when a security update comes out.
Oh, and battery life. Give me a slower device with muuuch longer battery life, please.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 12:00 PM on October 8
I have a Pinebook Pro, on which I run postmarketOS. I use it in a space where a lot of people use tablets these days: reading PDFs in a café, doing a bit of coding, a bit of Web browsing, and a bit of general low-power tomfoolery. I expect if I had a PineNote, I'd just switch to that.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 12:03 PM on October 8
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 12:03 PM on October 8
Thanks Too-Ticky!
Are any companies out there producing quality Linux devices at affordable prices
If the target is just Linux rather than open hardware, then for laptops and desktops I think Linux works well more often than not. It's definitely been fine on every Thinkpad I've tried. Lenovo and Dell used to actually sell specific some models with a Linux option - not sure if that's still a thing.
But phones and tablets are a different story both for Linux and (more relevantly imo) totally open-source Android. I've always wanted to run a de-google-fied open Android rom on my phone, but those roms tend to be made for more expensive models than I've ever had.
posted by trig at 1:26 PM on October 8 [1 favorite]
Are any companies out there producing quality Linux devices at affordable prices
If the target is just Linux rather than open hardware, then for laptops and desktops I think Linux works well more often than not. It's definitely been fine on every Thinkpad I've tried. Lenovo and Dell used to actually sell specific some models with a Linux option - not sure if that's still a thing.
But phones and tablets are a different story both for Linux and (more relevantly imo) totally open-source Android. I've always wanted to run a de-google-fied open Android rom on my phone, but those roms tend to be made for more expensive models than I've ever had.
posted by trig at 1:26 PM on October 8 [1 favorite]
trig: if you're willing to put up with a serious degree of faff and grumpy developers, LineageOS does a decent job on some middle-to-old model phones. I've been using a floor-model Pocophone F1 that I got yonks ago, and once I wrapped my head around the goofy Android side-load installation of an OS image, the upgrades have been smooth.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 2:17 PM on October 8 [1 favorite]
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 2:17 PM on October 8 [1 favorite]
A colleague was showing off her Remarkable tablet. How does this compare?
posted by indexy at 5:18 PM on October 8
posted by indexy at 5:18 PM on October 8
Seconding System76, I just bought a mini pc from them to use as a router/mailserver/wifi access point, and have had a couple of their laptops, including my current work laptop. Their Pop! OS is a legit Ubuntu flavor and their support has been very on point, though I've only used it a couple of times. When you receive a shipment from them it always comes with stickers, which isn't a selling point really, just an indicator that they sometimes do stuff just because it's cool.
posted by axiom at 9:48 PM on October 8
posted by axiom at 9:48 PM on October 8
Earthtopus, I suspect we may be on the losing end of a long-running extremely dry joke. The "of course it runs Doom" thing has become a long-standing gag in the retrocomputing arena, and the experience of the gameplay is typically laughable on the face of it.
That's somewhat part of the point: it's a tech demo point of reference that's meant to signal to the informed reader "This device is low-featured/powered enough that a PC game from 1993 is considered a stretch for it."
Of course, the way in which this is usually presented assumes a hip in-crowd, and everyone else is left asking the extremely sensible question you did.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 3:26 AM on October 9 [1 favorite]
That's somewhat part of the point: it's a tech demo point of reference that's meant to signal to the informed reader "This device is low-featured/powered enough that a PC game from 1993 is considered a stretch for it."
Of course, the way in which this is usually presented assumes a hip in-crowd, and everyone else is left asking the extremely sensible question you did.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 3:26 AM on October 9 [1 favorite]
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I'm curious about this. At 10 inches it's not really for me but I'd like to see it succeed. If better OS support opens the door to other form factors I'd love a more open device in the 7" range to replace my Kindle. Right now the best option for an open-ish e-ink device seems to be Onyx Boox, but their rapid iteration of similar models with a questionable reputation for support puts me off.
posted by fedward at 3:26 PM on October 7