"A dating site to defeat fascism in the next 5 days"
October 31, 2024 4:16 PM Subscribe
SWAP YOUR VOTE Teaming up voters to vote against Trump in the swing states and vote third party/protest votes in safe states.
- "A 'dating' site to defeat fascism"
Do you live in a Swing State, don't want Trump to win, but can't vote for Harris in good conscience? Go to this site and read!
Live in a Safe Blue state and are going to vote for Harris? Go to this site and read!
If you need some help making the argument for this very pragmatic choice, I highly recommend this statement from a group of Palestinian, Arab, Muslim, progressive Democrats and community leaders in Arizona. Read the whole thing: Here are some select quotes:
We know that many in our communities are resistant to vote for Kamala Harris because of the Biden administration’s complicity in the genocide. We understand this sentiment. Many of us have felt that way ourselves, even until very recently. Some of us have lost many family members in Gaza and Lebanon. We respect those who feel they simply can’t vote for a member of the administration that sent the bombs that may have killed their loved ones….
In our view, it is crystal clear that allowing the fascist Donald Trump to become President again would be the worst possible outcome for the Palestinian people. A Trump win would be an extreme danger to Muslims in our country, all immigrants, and the American pro-Palestine movement. It would be an existential threat to our democracy and our whole planet….
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“I love this… very smart, efficient, low-cost way to net swing state votes for Harris, while casting protest votes from the left to push Harris on policy. It’s a savvy tactic to simultaneously help Harris win AND advance these larger conversations too.”
– Billy Wimsatt, Founder & Director of Movement Voter Project
If you need some help making the argument for this very pragmatic choice, I highly recommend this statement from a group of Palestinian, Arab, Muslim, progressive Democrats and community leaders in Arizona. Read the whole thing: Here are some select quotes:
We know that many in our communities are resistant to vote for Kamala Harris because of the Biden administration’s complicity in the genocide. We understand this sentiment. Many of us have felt that way ourselves, even until very recently. Some of us have lost many family members in Gaza and Lebanon. We respect those who feel they simply can’t vote for a member of the administration that sent the bombs that may have killed their loved ones….
In our view, it is crystal clear that allowing the fascist Donald Trump to become President again would be the worst possible outcome for the Palestinian people. A Trump win would be an extreme danger to Muslims in our country, all immigrants, and the American pro-Palestine movement. It would be an existential threat to our democracy and our whole planet….
-----
“I love this… very smart, efficient, low-cost way to net swing state votes for Harris, while casting protest votes from the left to push Harris on policy. It’s a savvy tactic to simultaneously help Harris win AND advance these larger conversations too.”
– Billy Wimsatt, Founder & Director of Movement Voter Project
Oooh Nader's traders......Cornell law article on the fallout from this.
tl;dr California state threatening to prosecute vote swappers made it to the ninth circuit where "As a result of this analysis, the court held that the threatened prosecution was unconstitutional and in violation of the First Amendment"
posted by lalochezia at 5:21 PM on October 31 [8 favorites]
tl;dr California state threatening to prosecute vote swappers made it to the ninth circuit where "As a result of this analysis, the court held that the threatened prosecution was unconstitutional and in violation of the First Amendment"
posted by lalochezia at 5:21 PM on October 31 [8 favorites]
so... this only works because a lot of people aren't doing it because if they did those safe blue states would no longer be safe.
posted by Clowder of bats at 5:21 PM on October 31 [15 favorites]
posted by Clowder of bats at 5:21 PM on October 31 [15 favorites]
The non-response by the powers that be to Melon Husk’s PA vote buying scheme is pretty galling, considering how fast they cracked down on the Nader Trader sites in the 2000 election.
The non-response of ordering him to respond to the court by 10am EDT on Nov 1st after a "long" period of like 9 hours where Musk attempted and failed to punt the lawsuit to Federal Court?
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 5:24 PM on October 31 [4 favorites]
The non-response of ordering him to respond to the court by 10am EDT on Nov 1st after a "long" period of like 9 hours where Musk attempted and failed to punt the lawsuit to Federal Court?
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 5:24 PM on October 31 [4 favorites]
so... this only works because a lot of people aren't doing it because if they did those safe blue states would no longer be safe.
i agree but they are only taking volunteers from safe states, predominantly NY & CA
do you really think 5 days before the election, that this kind of tiny action would flip CA (a 5 million dem vote majority) or NY (1.5 million dem vote majority)
because you'd be wrong.
posted by lalochezia at 5:30 PM on October 31 [15 favorites]
i agree but they are only taking volunteers from safe states, predominantly NY & CA
do you really think 5 days before the election, that this kind of tiny action would flip CA (a 5 million dem vote majority) or NY (1.5 million dem vote majority)
because you'd be wrong.
posted by lalochezia at 5:30 PM on October 31 [15 favorites]
Or that there are that many people 1) in swing states 2) refusing to vote for Harris 3) who would agree to this. I'm skeptical there are that many, but it's probably worth a shot at this point in the game.
I'm already a Harris voter in Wisconsin and don't know anyone this applies to but will pass it along anyway!
posted by brook horse at 5:46 PM on October 31 [3 favorites]
I'm already a Harris voter in Wisconsin and don't know anyone this applies to but will pass it along anyway!
posted by brook horse at 5:46 PM on October 31 [3 favorites]
do you really think 5 days before the election...
no, i was pretty specific that this is only possible because it's NOT going to have an effect.
i don't think telling people "don't worry, your vote doesn't matter!" is a great thing to do in general, even if it's true for some in this case.
posted by Clowder of bats at 6:00 PM on October 31 [4 favorites]
no, i was pretty specific that this is only possible because it's NOT going to have an effect.
i don't think telling people "don't worry, your vote doesn't matter!" is a great thing to do in general, even if it's true for some in this case.
posted by Clowder of bats at 6:00 PM on October 31 [4 favorites]
Or that there are that many people
~2.3k have signed up already. There are 5 days to go. That's a possible significant margin in a swing state. IMHO could get to 3-15 x this number, with enough effort. That's absolutely a state-swinging number at this point in the race.
Considering these are "ain't gonna vote for harris" people that's a potential win, even if some fraction of these votes don't pan out, and that many, many other approaches are reaching saturation.
LFG!
posted by lalochezia at 6:07 PM on October 31 [4 favorites]
Sorry, my point was that there aren't enough "ain't gonna vote for Harris" voters in the swing states whose vote-matching could then put CA/NY (with their significant Dem majorities) at risk. It could certainly impact any one swing state without danger to safe blue states, even if we maxed out potentially eligible voters.
posted by brook horse at 6:17 PM on October 31 [4 favorites]
posted by brook horse at 6:17 PM on October 31 [4 favorites]
So, what percentage of the people signing up are actually going to change their secret ballot? I guess we'll never know.
But just by participating, as they say:
You are helping to increase trust at a time when trust is at an all time low. That’s something to celebrate!
posted by Wood at 6:42 PM on October 31 [5 favorites]
But just by participating, as they say:
You are helping to increase trust at a time when trust is at an all time low. That’s something to celebrate!
posted by Wood at 6:42 PM on October 31 [5 favorites]
Or you could just, you know, not be a jackass and vote for Harris because it's the right thing to do, recognize that because of our stupid system you live in a state where your vote for President actually matters, hold your nose, do it for the sake of... oh, I don't know, every woman, queer, trans, atheist, brown, immigrant, black, etc., person in America.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 7:20 PM on October 31 [43 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 7:20 PM on October 31 [43 favorites]
Yeah, I mean, we've been beating that drum the whole election cycle. So I don't mind someone taking a new tactic. There's some post I can't find about needing to think past "if people would just..." as a solution to avoiding a failstate because people, being people, frequently will not just.
posted by brook horse at 7:26 PM on October 31 [11 favorites]
posted by brook horse at 7:26 PM on October 31 [11 favorites]
Did the vote exchange thing in 2016. My state did go blue that year.
posted by Ansible at 7:29 PM on October 31 [7 favorites]
posted by Ansible at 7:29 PM on October 31 [7 favorites]
Hey, want to know what keeps someone from promising to swap with someone and then not swapping?
Nothing at all.
Stop confusing real life with your DVDs of The West Wing, people.
posted by AlSweigart at 7:37 PM on October 31 [9 favorites]
Nothing at all.
Stop confusing real life with your DVDs of The West Wing, people.
posted by AlSweigart at 7:37 PM on October 31 [9 favorites]
brook horse: i remember this post. i found it!
If your solution to some problem relies on “If everyone would just...” then you do not have a solution. Everyone is not going to just. At not time in the history of the universe has everyone just, and they’re not going to start now.posted by valrus at 7:39 PM on October 31 [36 favorites]
I signed up, it's better than feeling dread and helplessness from my "safe blue" state and something I can actually do to (try to) influence the outcome of the election when I have a small child at home AKA no time to volunteer anywhere. Will it help? It can't hurt!!!!
posted by subdee at 8:01 PM on October 31 [4 favorites]
posted by subdee at 8:01 PM on October 31 [4 favorites]
Hello [subdee]!
Thank you for taking part in this movement to make every vote count for more. Together we are teaming up to vote against Trump and his fascism in the swing states that will decide the election, while lodging crucial protest votes in safe states.
If you’ve requested a swap, keep an eye on your inbox. Once we find you a match, you’ll receive an email connecting you with your voting friend(s).
If you signed up from a safe state, keep in mind that we have more interested swappers from solid blue states than from swing-states, so we may not be able to match you. If you don’t hear back from us within 72 hours, you can try finding a friend to swap with through your own social media, or using the Reach app. Please note: We are not making matches for voters from red states.
Meanwhile if you have any questions, please head over to the FAQ. If your question isn’t answered, feel welcome to contact us.
Please help by telling everyone you know about Swap Your Vote, and in the few days we have left we can build a critical mass of new votes in the right places—working together for a more just and beautiful future.
posted by subdee at 8:07 PM on October 31 [2 favorites]
Thank you for taking part in this movement to make every vote count for more. Together we are teaming up to vote against Trump and his fascism in the swing states that will decide the election, while lodging crucial protest votes in safe states.
If you’ve requested a swap, keep an eye on your inbox. Once we find you a match, you’ll receive an email connecting you with your voting friend(s).
If you signed up from a safe state, keep in mind that we have more interested swappers from solid blue states than from swing-states, so we may not be able to match you. If you don’t hear back from us within 72 hours, you can try finding a friend to swap with through your own social media, or using the Reach app. Please note: We are not making matches for voters from red states.
Meanwhile if you have any questions, please head over to the FAQ. If your question isn’t answered, feel welcome to contact us.
Please help by telling everyone you know about Swap Your Vote, and in the few days we have left we can build a critical mass of new votes in the right places—working together for a more just and beautiful future.
posted by subdee at 8:07 PM on October 31 [2 favorites]
fwiw...
-Rep. Ruwa Romman: The DNC Tried to Silence Her. Here's Her Plan After Voting for Harris
-Bernie Sanders: 'I disagree with Kamala's position on the war in Gaza. How can I vote for her?' Here is my answer
posted by kliuless at 10:43 PM on October 31 [7 favorites]
-Rep. Ruwa Romman: The DNC Tried to Silence Her. Here's Her Plan After Voting for Harris
-Bernie Sanders: 'I disagree with Kamala's position on the war in Gaza. How can I vote for her?' Here is my answer
posted by kliuless at 10:43 PM on October 31 [7 favorites]
I wonder why they don’t use solid red states. Those of us in internal exile would like to help too!
posted by Countess Elena at 10:49 PM on October 31 [4 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 10:49 PM on October 31 [4 favorites]
so... this only works because a lot of people aren't doing it because if they did those safe blue states would no longer be safe.
I don't think it can really be said to work at all, given the fraction of a fraction of a fraction of possible voters it could appeal to.
If the election actually turns on whether protest voters who actually turn out to the polls have agreed to vote swap I'll be very surprised.
It's a clever notion, but I imagine individual missteps like Bill Clinton's speech in Michigan probably move more votes away than a project like this succeeds in capturing.
posted by pattern juggler at 2:41 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
I don't think it can really be said to work at all, given the fraction of a fraction of a fraction of possible voters it could appeal to.
If the election actually turns on whether protest voters who actually turn out to the polls have agreed to vote swap I'll be very surprised.
It's a clever notion, but I imagine individual missteps like Bill Clinton's speech in Michigan probably move more votes away than a project like this succeeds in capturing.
posted by pattern juggler at 2:41 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
If I were a US voter in this time I'd be way less sanguine about this. Has Admiral Ackbar delivered an opinion? To me it reeks of Musk: childish and hamfisted tomfoolery. How does anyone even begin to trust a counterpart?
posted by BCMagee at 2:42 AM on November 1 [4 favorites]
posted by BCMagee at 2:42 AM on November 1 [4 favorites]
It's just too early in the morning for me to express everything I hate about this. The last thing we need is for American democracy to be even more game-ified. I'm not sure if this is illegal, but I'm pretty confident it ought to be.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:18 AM on November 1 [6 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:18 AM on November 1 [6 favorites]
I'll be glad for this election to be over just to stop hearing about people who [fainting couch] can't bring themselves to vote for Harris because X Y or Z. voting is not complicity. it's one action in a world of many other non-exclusive actions. this inability to see the bigger picture is quite simply childish.
posted by kokaku at 4:27 AM on November 1 [14 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 4:27 AM on November 1 [14 favorites]
also this puts a lot of faith that Republicans and a stacked SCOTUS won't find ways to fuck over "solidly blue" states (just like they did when it came to federal Covid response)
posted by kokaku at 4:28 AM on November 1 [2 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 4:28 AM on November 1 [2 favorites]
All they do is put you in contact with an individual voter in another state who's willing to entertain you on your position. That's why it's not illegal. No one is forcing you to do anything and there's no money or anything else changing hands.
posted by subdee at 4:39 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
posted by subdee at 4:39 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
It does seem to be missing the larger issue, we need a movement against the electoral college; and that would require a much deeper dig.
It does seem tohold a privileged idea of what electoral power is, when the other side's idea is to do away with elections entirely
Probably a movement to dissolve citizens united comes first, and for that, you have to vote in democrats to an overwhelming majority, and make puerto rico a state, not paddycake with third parties, of which there are none
This is very 2000. It doesn't seem like a serious effort after the Sanders campaign showed us that running AT the democratic party is much more successful than running against it. Most politics is non electoral, and this thinking posits, 'what if my only political option is voting'?
It seems to fly in the face of the electoral lessons from the Uncommitted movement itself, although that movement seems confused about its own success. Or maybe it is just Macklemore who got confused.
We should be Recommitted to organizing to change the United States' position away from rascist genocide, not giving up and voting third party out some Calvinist, consumerist view of electoral power.
posted by eustatic at 4:40 AM on November 1 [1 favorite]
It does seem tohold a privileged idea of what electoral power is, when the other side's idea is to do away with elections entirely
Probably a movement to dissolve citizens united comes first, and for that, you have to vote in democrats to an overwhelming majority, and make puerto rico a state, not paddycake with third parties, of which there are none
This is very 2000. It doesn't seem like a serious effort after the Sanders campaign showed us that running AT the democratic party is much more successful than running against it. Most politics is non electoral, and this thinking posits, 'what if my only political option is voting'?
It seems to fly in the face of the electoral lessons from the Uncommitted movement itself, although that movement seems confused about its own success. Or maybe it is just Macklemore who got confused.
We should be Recommitted to organizing to change the United States' position away from rascist genocide, not giving up and voting third party out some Calvinist, consumerist view of electoral power.
posted by eustatic at 4:40 AM on November 1 [1 favorite]
As I shared in my letter, they also encourage you to talk to your own contacts in other states and try to vote strategically with them. It's not illegal try to convince people to vote for your preferred candidate.
posted by subdee at 4:40 AM on November 1 [2 favorites]
posted by subdee at 4:40 AM on November 1 [2 favorites]
Porque no los dos, ecstatic? I see this as a tacit admission that the system doesn't work (a swing state voter gets to exchange their one vote for potentially TWO blue state votes, how is it representative government when their vote counts for twice as much as mine?). I'm sure the activists who wrote their letter in support of voting for Harris are also working on other campaigns in support of Gaza and Palestine. I see this as a net positive move because it's easy to do so it gets more people involved.
posted by subdee at 4:45 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
posted by subdee at 4:45 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
Saying we should reform the electoral college is all well and good but will it get done in the 4 days left before the election?
posted by subdee at 4:46 AM on November 1 [7 favorites]
posted by subdee at 4:46 AM on November 1 [7 favorites]
I mean, if there was a website that just happened to introduce me to a guy who sells heroin, "but what happens after that is on you guys!" it would seem a little disingenuous to suggest it was something other than a website that was there to facilitate heroin sales, wouldn't it? I'm just saying, if we're genuinely outraged and not feigning outrage over what Elon Musk is doing, it's probably not a great look to walk up to this line and whistle innocently. And if anyone is that worried about their vote actually counting, maybe it's a good idea to take a step back and ask yourself why you want to cast that vote then.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:47 AM on November 1
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:47 AM on November 1
I'll be glad for this election to be over just to stop hearing about people who [fainting couch] can't bring themselves to vote for Harris
Dude. I feel the same way for people who vote for her. I can’t wait to see those Harris yard signs come down.
posted by iamck at 5:45 AM on November 1 [6 favorites]
Dude. I feel the same way for people who vote for her. I can’t wait to see those Harris yard signs come down.
posted by iamck at 5:45 AM on November 1 [6 favorites]
Harris or Trump will win this election. Given that fact, I ultimately decided that my moral calculus did not allow me to withhold my vote for Harris. Trump will almost certainly be worse! But I do not find it difficult at all to understand how someone else can look at the Middle East and be unable to vote for her. She has given no real evidence that she'll do much more to protect Gaza than the current administration. I didn't vote for Biden in the primary, but of course I did that knowing he would still win.
posted by obfuscation at 6:08 AM on November 1 [6 favorites]
posted by obfuscation at 6:08 AM on November 1 [6 favorites]
I wrote and deleted a comment because I don't want to start a derail but (as someone who has already voted early for Harris) can we just please not sneer at people who have deep moral objections to voting for Harris or act like they're petulant children? If someone says "I'll stop treating them like children when they stop acting like children" I want you to know that that condescension is exactly what I'm talking about.
posted by an octopus IRL at 6:17 AM on November 1 [18 favorites]
posted by an octopus IRL at 6:17 AM on November 1 [18 favorites]
I'm having a hard time believing that there is any such thing as a safe state in any sense of the word.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:54 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:54 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
can we just please not sneer at people who have deep moral objections to voting for Harris or act like they're petulant children
Personally, I don't do that and I get it: it's hard to vote for a, at best, disappointing party like the Democrats. But I'm also willing to defeat fascism by any means necessary, and right now that means marking the checkbox for Harris/Walz. So that's what I did.
But anyone who signs up for this website with someone who pretty pinky promises to swap votes? That is the height of childish naivety.
...
...
Hey, if anyone wants to know a completely legal way to get someone in a swing state to vote for Harris/Walz instead of a third party...
posted by AlSweigart at 7:20 AM on November 1
Personally, I don't do that and I get it: it's hard to vote for a, at best, disappointing party like the Democrats. But I'm also willing to defeat fascism by any means necessary, and right now that means marking the checkbox for Harris/Walz. So that's what I did.
But anyone who signs up for this website with someone who pretty pinky promises to swap votes? That is the height of childish naivety.
...
...
Hey, if anyone wants to know a completely legal way to get someone in a swing state to vote for Harris/Walz instead of a third party...
posted by AlSweigart at 7:20 AM on November 1
don't want Trump to win, but can't vote for Harris in good conscience?
I don't actually believe these people exist.
posted by mhoye at 7:49 AM on November 1
I don't actually believe these people exist.
posted by mhoye at 7:49 AM on November 1
Your lack of belief is noted, but they ONE HUNDRED PERCENT exist.
posted by obfuscation at 7:59 AM on November 1 [2 favorites]
posted by obfuscation at 7:59 AM on November 1 [2 favorites]
There is no third option in the trolley problem. Pull the lever or don't.
posted by CynicalKnight at 8:02 AM on November 1 [6 favorites]
posted by CynicalKnight at 8:02 AM on November 1 [6 favorites]
The trolly problem is a thought experiment, and a poor analogy to national politics.
posted by jonnay at 8:04 AM on November 1 [8 favorites]
posted by jonnay at 8:04 AM on November 1 [8 favorites]
Your lack of belief is noted, but they ONE HUNDRED PERCENT exist.
I'm sure that there's somebody out there who doesn't want Trump to win but won't actually do anything about it for some reason. But I don't think that any person who knows what's at stake and has still decided to sit this one out will change their decision and take an action because of some online vote-swapping exchange program. That person doesn't exist.
posted by mhoye at 8:12 AM on November 1
I'm sure that there's somebody out there who doesn't want Trump to win but won't actually do anything about it for some reason. But I don't think that any person who knows what's at stake and has still decided to sit this one out will change their decision and take an action because of some online vote-swapping exchange program. That person doesn't exist.
posted by mhoye at 8:12 AM on November 1
don't want Trump to win, but can't vote for Harris in good conscience?
I don't actually believe these people exist.
What do you mean? There are at least a few in the comments of every political post on Metafilter these days.
posted by Liquidwolf at 8:24 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
I don't actually believe these people exist.
What do you mean? There are at least a few in the comments of every political post on Metafilter these days.
posted by Liquidwolf at 8:24 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
This isn't even the traditional trolley problem, really. The same set of people that get run over with Harris also get run over with Trump.
I understand that people who object to voting for Harris aren't engaging in such a simplistic analysis, but if we're using the trolley problem analogy voting third party in a swing state would be more like refusing to rescue some of the people on the tracks because you can't rescue them all, and its the trolley driver's fault that people will get run over since they could stop the trolley if they wanted to, and you don't want to be seen as helping the trolley driver by rescuing some people.
Having said that, I signed up for this site and plan on swapping my safe state vote for Harris to a third party if it will help persuade a swing state voter to vote for her. I like that this site seems to facilitate communications between people, and I hope to get more reassurance from the person I'm swapping with that they are sincere, and try to offer my own reassurance to them.
I do find it confusing that they aren't taking red state voters. Those would seem to be the safest votes of all to swap.
Basically this is a Hail Mary pass to try to persuade a few last swing state voters to stand up against fascism in exchange for amplifying their legitimate concerns through a more-safely-expressed protest vote. We may never know with certainty, but if it makes the difference in a swing state it will have been worth it.
posted by Reverend John at 8:54 AM on November 1 [7 favorites]
I understand that people who object to voting for Harris aren't engaging in such a simplistic analysis, but if we're using the trolley problem analogy voting third party in a swing state would be more like refusing to rescue some of the people on the tracks because you can't rescue them all, and its the trolley driver's fault that people will get run over since they could stop the trolley if they wanted to, and you don't want to be seen as helping the trolley driver by rescuing some people.
Having said that, I signed up for this site and plan on swapping my safe state vote for Harris to a third party if it will help persuade a swing state voter to vote for her. I like that this site seems to facilitate communications between people, and I hope to get more reassurance from the person I'm swapping with that they are sincere, and try to offer my own reassurance to them.
I do find it confusing that they aren't taking red state voters. Those would seem to be the safest votes of all to swap.
Basically this is a Hail Mary pass to try to persuade a few last swing state voters to stand up against fascism in exchange for amplifying their legitimate concerns through a more-safely-expressed protest vote. We may never know with certainty, but if it makes the difference in a swing state it will have been worth it.
posted by Reverend John at 8:54 AM on November 1 [7 favorites]
The fact so many people have no one at the federal level who they feel represent them at all is a failure of our political system. Democracy doesn't work when people despise all the available options.
The utilitarian calculus supports voting for Harris, loathsome as that may be. But people aren't rational utility maximizers, and asking them to go out of their way to do something they find morally revolting isn't a winning plan.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:03 AM on November 1 [4 favorites]
The utilitarian calculus supports voting for Harris, loathsome as that may be. But people aren't rational utility maximizers, and asking them to go out of their way to do something they find morally revolting isn't a winning plan.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:03 AM on November 1 [4 favorites]
No amount of "if you don't vote for Harris you're an evil person and an idiot and a child and you hate minorities even if you are one" is going to convince someone with a moral objection to a system that commits genocide. Your energy would be better spent in following the example of your candidate and trying to win over the Republicans in your life.
posted by jy4m at 9:05 AM on November 1 [12 favorites]
posted by jy4m at 9:05 AM on November 1 [12 favorites]
Not sure if that is directed at me. I don't think someone who doesn't want to vote for Harris over the genocide in Gaza is evil or an idiot. I do disagree with their decision, but I can also understand it, which is part of why I'm very open to this vote swap arrangement. I'm sorry if by trying to over-stretch the trolley problem analogy I insulted you, jy4m, or anyone else.
posted by Reverend John at 9:33 AM on November 1 [1 favorite]
posted by Reverend John at 9:33 AM on November 1 [1 favorite]
Bill Clinton in Michigan - JFC can we please have a moratorium on old rich white guys in the Dem party leadership roles. They had their chance and messed everything up. Just go away for 1000 years. Bernie isn't rich, there are lots of old white guys who arent rich and on the right side and should maybe have a seat at the table, but we (I'm one) can and should take a freaking back seat, for once!
posted by WatTylerJr at 10:03 AM on November 1 [5 favorites]
posted by WatTylerJr at 10:03 AM on November 1 [5 favorites]
I do find it confusing that they aren't taking red state voters. Those would seem to be the safest votes of all to swap.
I think the tactic being discussed in red states is more like: "if you're pro-life don't like Harris, but don't like having to vote for Trump? Go with these third party options." I swear that there was a comment on another thread which stated that pastors in red states were advising people this.
Sounds like a much more direct approach than this site is suggesting.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:08 AM on November 1 [1 favorite]
I think the tactic being discussed in red states is more like: "if you're pro-life don't like Harris, but don't like having to vote for Trump? Go with these third party options." I swear that there was a comment on another thread which stated that pastors in red states were advising people this.
Sounds like a much more direct approach than this site is suggesting.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:08 AM on November 1 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Hi, a comment has been removed. Please avoid calling others a petulant child and if you find that's impossible, then avoid commenting, thanks. We strive to keep things somewhat civil on the site.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 10:16 AM on November 1 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 10:16 AM on November 1 [1 favorite]
EmpressCallipygos, you might be thinking of my comment—I’m not sure if this is part of any broader strategy beyond this pastor, and it’s occurring in swing state Wisconsin, not a red state.
posted by brook horse at 10:28 AM on November 1
posted by brook horse at 10:28 AM on November 1
Bill Clinton in Michigan - JFC can we please have a moratorium on old rich white guys in the Dem party leadership roles.
The thing is, Bill Clinton, and what he said, 100% represents the Democratic party right now. He's saying exactly what they want him to say, because this is what they believe. Otherwise, why send him to the state where you're presumably trying to win over voters? If there was any calculus here, it seems to be to convince Zionists/Republicans that the Democratic party will not be swayed, not now, and not after election, and will remain a steadfast ally to Israel.
posted by iamck at 10:47 AM on November 1 [2 favorites]
The thing is, Bill Clinton, and what he said, 100% represents the Democratic party right now. He's saying exactly what they want him to say, because this is what they believe. Otherwise, why send him to the state where you're presumably trying to win over voters? If there was any calculus here, it seems to be to convince Zionists/Republicans that the Democratic party will not be swayed, not now, and not after election, and will remain a steadfast ally to Israel.
posted by iamck at 10:47 AM on November 1 [2 favorites]
iamck - yes, you're right, but I need to hope otherwise. I, probably delusionally, think she could bring Rep. Tllaib into the planning for ending this fucking nightmare for the Palestinians, and now the Lebanese. Yea delusional, but it's all that I can think of other than witnessing and supporting relief/medical agency heroes.
But my point remains that NO ONE needs old rich white male power brokers anywhere near anything at this point.
posted by WatTylerJr at 11:10 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
But my point remains that NO ONE needs old rich white male power brokers anywhere near anything at this point.
posted by WatTylerJr at 11:10 AM on November 1 [3 favorites]
I wasn't specifically calling you out, John. There's easily five comments I could have been replying to here. I had just noticed that the comments had devolved into the usual name-calling and guilt tripping. I have my theories about why this is the tactic that seems to appear the most in these discussions, and why they're directed specifically at the people that the Harris campaign has done the least to appeal to, but then I would be the one name-calling.
Regarding this initiative specifically, I don't have any particular objection to it, except the one of feasibility that others have mentioned. At the very least it's premised on the notion that some people might be actual progressives and actually oppose democrat policies on those grounds.
posted by jy4m at 12:00 PM on November 1 [5 favorites]
Regarding this initiative specifically, I don't have any particular objection to it, except the one of feasibility that others have mentioned. At the very least it's premised on the notion that some people might be actual progressives and actually oppose democrat policies on those grounds.
posted by jy4m at 12:00 PM on November 1 [5 favorites]
"I have been honored to serve as Joe Biden’s vice president, but I will bring my own experiences and ideas to the Oval Office."
You wouldn't think that says much of anything, but I suspect that it means more than many realize. People who have red lines are never going to be happy when a candidate has to thread the needle just to get themselves in a position to be able to do anything meaningful.
Hopefully by this time next week things will be settled in such a way that we get the chance to see if I'm right or wrong. If not, God help us all, because we're going to need Jesus or Mohammed or any of the many other quasi-deitic "kings" people glommed onto as the one who would lead them from the darkness of oppression a couple of millennia ago when that was the popular thing to do.
My other hope is that the site in question isn't actually just a ratfucking campaign designed to con people so that the Trump campaign can point to Harris underperforming in safe states as evidence of some kind of election tampering in the swing states.
posted by wierdo at 1:47 PM on November 1 [5 favorites]
You wouldn't think that says much of anything, but I suspect that it means more than many realize. People who have red lines are never going to be happy when a candidate has to thread the needle just to get themselves in a position to be able to do anything meaningful.
Hopefully by this time next week things will be settled in such a way that we get the chance to see if I'm right or wrong. If not, God help us all, because we're going to need Jesus or Mohammed or any of the many other quasi-deitic "kings" people glommed onto as the one who would lead them from the darkness of oppression a couple of millennia ago when that was the popular thing to do.
My other hope is that the site in question isn't actually just a ratfucking campaign designed to con people so that the Trump campaign can point to Harris underperforming in safe states as evidence of some kind of election tampering in the swing states.
posted by wierdo at 1:47 PM on November 1 [5 favorites]
Well, I'm matched up with a Pennsylvania voter. Just talked to him on the phone. It was a little awkward but friendly.
posted by Reverend John at 2:42 PM on November 1 [7 favorites]
posted by Reverend John at 2:42 PM on November 1 [7 favorites]
Same! I also matched to someone in PA.
posted by subdee at 11:41 PM on November 1 [4 favorites]
posted by subdee at 11:41 PM on November 1 [4 favorites]
Well, I done did my civic duty and I went and voted #1 quidnunc kid.
posted by Reverend John at 12:07 PM on November 2 [3 favorites]
posted by Reverend John at 12:07 PM on November 2 [3 favorites]
My other hope is that the site in question isn't actually just a ratfucking campaign designed to con people so that the Trump campaign can point to Harris underperforming in safe states as evidence of some kind of election tampering in the swing states.
I personally know one of the organizers; he's been organizing actions in support of progressives for over 20 years.
If it's ratfucking that motherfucker is playing the longest goddamn con: Damn you Andrew!
posted by lalochezia at 4:11 AM on November 3 [7 favorites]
Well...as part of my attempts to promote this project, I can categorically state that posting on reddit as a new sub member does not work very well. stuff gets nuked real quick; subs have filters and autobanning bots and mods that sweep up posts......for good reason...even if the post is sensible and fits the mission of the subreddit!.
Parachuting in does not work.
So: I have a request of people reading this if you have been a member of a subreddit for a while, and promoting swapyourvote fits the sub's mission and your interest, please do so today!
posted by lalochezia at 6:58 AM on November 3 [1 favorite]
Parachuting in does not work.
So: I have a request of people reading this if you have been a member of a subreddit for a while, and promoting swapyourvote fits the sub's mission and your interest, please do so today!
posted by lalochezia at 6:58 AM on November 3 [1 favorite]
Philly Enquirer Share Link about swapyourvote.org
Share this far and wide!
posted by lalochezia at 11:35 AM on November 3
Share this far and wide!
posted by lalochezia at 11:35 AM on November 3
I personally know one of the organizers; he's been organizing actions in support of progressives for over 20 years.
That is good news. Clearly, I've been oversensitized to opportunities for electrical mischief. I can't help but see them everywhere.
posted by wierdo at 7:16 PM on November 3 [1 favorite]
That is good news. Clearly, I've been oversensitized to opportunities for electrical mischief. I can't help but see them everywhere.
posted by wierdo at 7:16 PM on November 3 [1 favorite]
Now we have to worry about electrical mischief
posted by ginger.beef at 9:00 AM on November 4 [5 favorites]
posted by ginger.beef at 9:00 AM on November 4 [5 favorites]
I'm shocked. Shocked! to find mischief going on here.
posted by Reverend John at 9:16 AM on November 4 [3 favorites]
posted by Reverend John at 9:16 AM on November 4 [3 favorites]
I don't actually believe these people exist.
Hi. I voted Cornell West, but if I had seen this before I voted, would have signed up and voted for the third party of the swapper’s choice - but not Harris. I live in a safe state. I’m not willing to vote for someone who’s endorsing genocide even if the other guy is worse - it’s a bridge too far and I can’t make myself fill in the circle.
That said, I know people in swing states who are voting third party who would absolutely be willing to go for this, and am reaching out to them. Hopefully they can get matched in time.
posted by corb at 9:33 AM on November 4 [2 favorites]
Hi. I voted Cornell West, but if I had seen this before I voted, would have signed up and voted for the third party of the swapper’s choice - but not Harris. I live in a safe state. I’m not willing to vote for someone who’s endorsing genocide even if the other guy is worse - it’s a bridge too far and I can’t make myself fill in the circle.
That said, I know people in swing states who are voting third party who would absolutely be willing to go for this, and am reaching out to them. Hopefully they can get matched in time.
posted by corb at 9:33 AM on November 4 [2 favorites]
fwiw, I signed up the other day and was quickly matched with two voters who both turned out to be fellow supporters of the Uncommitted movement—one in PA, and my counterpart here in a safe blue state. The former has now sent in her ballot for Harris, the two of us have written in Uncommitted/Free Palestine in accordance with her wishes (which is what I was planning to do anyway, although I'd have honored a request to vote third-party if necessary), and the conversation we've had via email while coordinating our voting plans and commitments to keep organizing on this issue has actually lifted my spirits a bit.
posted by karayel at 6:38 PM on November 4 [5 favorites]
posted by karayel at 6:38 PM on November 4 [5 favorites]
Ah, Cornel West, whose platform includes disbanding NATO and "Ceasing Support for Conflicts reflects our dedication to peace and the conviction that resources that fuel conflicts could be better used to foster understanding, reconciliation, and peaceful resolution. "
Slava Ukraini, amirite
posted by haapsane at 12:02 PM on November 5 [1 favorite]
Slava Ukraini, amirite
posted by haapsane at 12:02 PM on November 5 [1 favorite]
It's a protest vote by someone in a safe state, why get het up about it?
posted by Reverend John at 1:19 PM on November 5
posted by Reverend John at 1:19 PM on November 5
Man, I don't know why you're trying to pick a fight today of all days, but literally all of my state's electoral votes went to Harris and it would have taken well over several hundred thousand protest votes to even think of shifting that.
posted by corb at 11:49 AM on November 6 [3 favorites]
posted by corb at 11:49 AM on November 6 [3 favorites]
To be clear, I wasn't under the impression that your vote would be in anyway decisive. I also wasn't picking a fight by stating my opinion.
I am tempted to pick a fight *now*, "today of all days", but that would also be hollow posturing and everyone should have better things to do.
posted by haapsane at 7:14 PM on November 6
I am tempted to pick a fight *now*, "today of all days", but that would also be hollow posturing and everyone should have better things to do.
posted by haapsane at 7:14 PM on November 6
.
posted by lalochezia at 6:09 AM on November 8
posted by lalochezia at 6:09 AM on November 8
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posted by FallibleHuman at 5:03 PM on October 31 [9 favorites]