Not an exact science
December 2, 2024 12:25 AM Subscribe
Linguists argue that style is almost impossible to hide because many of the choices we make are unconscious. Someone may decide to spell a word wrong, but forget to modify less noticeable details, such as their use of punctuation. “People say a lot about themselves when they’re trying to hide their writing,” said Roten. “For us it’s just more information.” from Can a Comma Solve a Crime? [The Dial]
wier'D
posted by fairmettle at 2:42 AM on December 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by fairmettle at 2:42 AM on December 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
all I know is if bombastic lowercase pronouncements ever kills a guy I'm fucked
posted by taquito sunrise at 3:44 AM on December 2, 2024 [15 favorites]
posted by taquito sunrise at 3:44 AM on December 2, 2024 [15 favorites]
I did an exercise once which came from a marriage counsellor. People pair off. One person says a sentence or two about an emotionally neutral subject. The other is to repeat it back exactly. The first person makes corrections.
When the sentence can be repeated correctly, switch roles.
It was astonishingly difficult to get it right, and it was interesting that changes which seemed trivial to the second person were important to the first person.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 3:47 AM on December 2, 2024 [12 favorites]
When the sentence can be repeated correctly, switch roles.
It was astonishingly difficult to get it right, and it was interesting that changes which seemed trivial to the second person were important to the first person.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 3:47 AM on December 2, 2024 [12 favorites]
Like other probabilitistic identification methods (fingerprint, voiceprint, DNA, etc.) this encourages a style of policing where evidence is compared to a database, a list of suspects is generated in descending order of probability, and then police work down the list until they find someone who doesn't have a good alibi and can't afford a lawyer. We can look forward to some miscarriages of justice using the new method.
Richard Osmund’s cozy crime mysteries
It would be foolish to use ChatGPT to rewrite your criminal e-mails. ChatGPT runs on OpenAI's servers, so that your original text together with your IP address, OpenAI login details, and other metadata are stored in OpenAI's logs where they can be subpoena'd. If you're going to use an LLM for opsec you need to run the model on your own computer.
posted by cyanistes at 4:01 AM on December 2, 2024 [13 favorites]
Richard Osmund’s cozy crime mysteries
It would be foolish to use ChatGPT to rewrite your criminal e-mails. ChatGPT runs on OpenAI's servers, so that your original text together with your IP address, OpenAI login details, and other metadata are stored in OpenAI's logs where they can be subpoena'd. If you're going to use an LLM for opsec you need to run the model on your own computer.
posted by cyanistes at 4:01 AM on December 2, 2024 [13 favorites]
Psst, cyanistes, not too loud… Maybe the author didn't want to be *too* helpful to actual criminals taking inspiration from fiction.
posted by demi-octopus at 4:10 AM on December 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by demi-octopus at 4:10 AM on December 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
While statistic analysts may have assisted with the Unabomber case, wasn't it his brother who was the main witness to the manifesto's style?
When I was but a young weirdo, I taught myself SNOBOL and Icon so I could follow along with the late Rev Andrew Q Morton's books on literary stylometry. I'm still not sure why, but it was fun at the time.
Is France still big on handwriting analysis? That's about as much use as polygraph tests.
posted by scruss at 4:54 AM on December 2, 2024 [4 favorites]
When I was but a young weirdo, I taught myself SNOBOL and Icon so I could follow along with the late Rev Andrew Q Morton's books on literary stylometry. I'm still not sure why, but it was fun at the time.
Is France still big on handwriting analysis? That's about as much use as polygraph tests.
posted by scruss at 4:54 AM on December 2, 2024 [4 favorites]
‘ChatGPT, rewrite in the style of a friendly English gentleman, please.’ That is always Loubet’s prompt.”
This isn't a bad idea if you're inclined to provide "anonymous" feedback in a professional setting btw. Even if the process is anonymous, which you sometimes can't trust, people's signature writings styles can be so transparent that the systemic quasi-anonymity doesn't matter.
posted by mhoye at 5:17 AM on December 2, 2024 [5 favorites]
This isn't a bad idea if you're inclined to provide "anonymous" feedback in a professional setting btw. Even if the process is anonymous, which you sometimes can't trust, people's signature writings styles can be so transparent that the systemic quasi-anonymity doesn't matter.
posted by mhoye at 5:17 AM on December 2, 2024 [5 favorites]
Maybe the author didn't want to be *too* helpful to actual criminals taking inspiration from fiction.
I enjoy reading authors' notes, and many do reference their professional or acquired-through-research expertise. Some are fun, but others are occasionally a little hair-raising, in terms of the information they casually dug up on background for a novel: arson methods, IRL how to make your own nukes, etc.
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:30 AM on December 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
I enjoy reading authors' notes, and many do reference their professional or acquired-through-research expertise. Some are fun, but others are occasionally a little hair-raising, in terms of the information they casually dug up on background for a novel: arson methods, IRL how to make your own nukes, etc.
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:30 AM on December 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
James Joyce has fun with this in Finnegans Wake. When a journalist, Piggott, tried to destroy the politician Charles Stuart Parnell's reputation using a forged document, he spelt the word "hesitancy" wrongly and was thereby busted. The word crops up in Finnegans Wake with the initials of the central character Humphrey Chimpden Earwicker substituted instead: "HeCitEncy! Your words grates on my ares."
posted by Tarn at 6:15 AM on December 2, 2024 [7 favorites]
posted by Tarn at 6:15 AM on December 2, 2024 [7 favorites]
Is it terrible of me to have instantly imagined autistic crime investigator (and Parisienne) Astrid suggesting this method of pursuit to her neurotypical bestie (and stalwart flic) Raphaelle? I can almost hear her speaking the words.
Filed away for later reading, God willing!
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 6:33 AM on December 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
Filed away for later reading, God willing!
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 6:33 AM on December 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
One of the founders of forensic linguistics at Aston University was Malcolm Coulthard. His inaugural lecture, Questioning Statements, is fascinating. He was given the statement of Derek Bentley, a developmentally-disabled epileptic who ended up being hanged in Britain for shouting "Let him have it!" before a policeman got shot in 1952, and his forensic analysis showed that the police rewrote Derek's answers as a first-person confession.
"The results were startling:whereas in the ordinary witness statements there is only one occurrence of "then" in 930 words, by contrast "then" occurs 29 times in the police officers' statements, that is on average once every 78 words. Thus, Bentley's usage of temporal "then" once every 58 words, groups his statement firmly with those produced by the police officers. 'My mother told me that they had called and I then ran after them. I walked up the road with them to the paper shop where I saw Craig standing. We all talked together and then Norman Parsley and Frank Fazey left. Chris Craig and I then caught a bus to Croydon. We got off at West Croydon and then walked down the road where the toilets are - I think it is Tamworth Road. When we came to the place where you found me, Chris looked in the window. There was a little iron gate at the side. Chris then jumped over and I followed. Chris then climbed up the drain pipe to the roof and I followed. Up to then Chris had not said anything."
That last sentence is particularly absurd because in direct speech we seldom mention what had not happened. I'm reminded of a cartoon I once saw of a police creative writing course: "Nice style, but it lacks conviction."
posted by Tarn at 6:58 AM on December 2, 2024 [7 favorites]
"The results were startling:whereas in the ordinary witness statements there is only one occurrence of "then" in 930 words, by contrast "then" occurs 29 times in the police officers' statements, that is on average once every 78 words. Thus, Bentley's usage of temporal "then" once every 58 words, groups his statement firmly with those produced by the police officers. 'My mother told me that they had called and I then ran after them. I walked up the road with them to the paper shop where I saw Craig standing. We all talked together and then Norman Parsley and Frank Fazey left. Chris Craig and I then caught a bus to Croydon. We got off at West Croydon and then walked down the road where the toilets are - I think it is Tamworth Road. When we came to the place where you found me, Chris looked in the window. There was a little iron gate at the side. Chris then jumped over and I followed. Chris then climbed up the drain pipe to the roof and I followed. Up to then Chris had not said anything."
That last sentence is particularly absurd because in direct speech we seldom mention what had not happened. I'm reminded of a cartoon I once saw of a police creative writing course: "Nice style, but it lacks conviction."
posted by Tarn at 6:58 AM on December 2, 2024 [7 favorites]
Back in 1978 I got my first software job at a major tech company. The project I was assigned to had three engineers already on it. They had produced a large design document and I was asked to review it.
A day or two later I went to one of the engineers with a number of questions. About half way through my asking him questions he stopped me. He wondered why all the question I asked him were from the sections he’d written.
I replied that since he was from India and was the product of a British educational system all the sections with words like colour and flavour were written by him. I had also picked up that on of the other guys loved the word hierarchy so all the sections that used it extensively were his. The rest were written by the third engineer.
He later said that was when he knew they’d hired the right person.
posted by jvbthegolfer at 8:12 AM on December 2, 2024 [5 favorites]
A day or two later I went to one of the engineers with a number of questions. About half way through my asking him questions he stopped me. He wondered why all the question I asked him were from the sections he’d written.
I replied that since he was from India and was the product of a British educational system all the sections with words like colour and flavour were written by him. I had also picked up that on of the other guys loved the word hierarchy so all the sections that used it extensively were his. The rest were written by the third engineer.
He later said that was when he knew they’d hired the right person.
posted by jvbthegolfer at 8:12 AM on December 2, 2024 [5 favorites]
Grammarly could put a monkey wrench into this, it homogenizes your writing to such an extent that anyone who uses it becomes indistinguishable.
posted by tommasz at 8:51 AM on December 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 8:51 AM on December 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
"When I was but a young weirdo, I taught myself SNOBOL and Icon"
I've just gone back and played with Snobol again (after many years). It definitely shows its age, but what a great language.
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 9:19 AM on December 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
I've just gone back and played with Snobol again (after many years). It definitely shows its age, but what a great language.
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 9:19 AM on December 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
While statistic analysts may have assisted with the Unabomber case, wasn't it his brother who was the main witness to the manifesto's style?
It was! IIRC one of the big giveaways to the brother was that the Unabomber had the habit of flipping the clauses in the expression, "have your cake and eat it too," i.e., he wrote it as "eat your cake and have it too."* Not exactly about punctuation, but certainly in the spirit of the FPP.
*I think the brother also pointed out how that ordering was the original form of that expression, which somehow had gotten flipped already by the 80s-90s.
posted by obliterati at 9:30 AM on December 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
It was! IIRC one of the big giveaways to the brother was that the Unabomber had the habit of flipping the clauses in the expression, "have your cake and eat it too," i.e., he wrote it as "eat your cake and have it too."* Not exactly about punctuation, but certainly in the spirit of the FPP.
*I think the brother also pointed out how that ordering was the original form of that expression, which somehow had gotten flipped already by the 80s-90s.
posted by obliterati at 9:30 AM on December 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
Donald Westlake wrote Nobody's Perfect in 1973
He (as Richard Stark) wrote Butcher Moon in 1974.
If you didn't know, would you guess? (I suppose the computers might, but that's just a matter of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.)
posted by BWA at 11:11 AM on December 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
He (as Richard Stark) wrote Butcher Moon in 1974.
If you didn't know, would you guess? (I suppose the computers might, but that's just a matter of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.)
posted by BWA at 11:11 AM on December 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
If you didn't know, would you guess? (I suppose the computers might, but that's just a matter of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.)
I remember an interview with Westlake as part of the DVD extras from the movie Payback where he talked a little about how the writing style of "Richard Stark" was different, and intended to sound like a completely different person.
this encourages a style of policing where evidence is compared to a database, a list of suspects is generated in descending order of probability, and then police work down the list until they find someone who doesn't have a good alibi and can't afford a lawyer. We can look forward to some miscarriages of justice using the new method.
Yeah. This is just more circumstantial evidence that's going to treated like unimpeachable truth. Because a chatbot that tells people to put glue on pizza also said you write like a terrorist.
These models weren't designed from a clean sheet of paper to create a new dystopian hell, but they're certainly going to. "I don't care what the model said, put some guardrails on it, make it say what we want then tell a judge to treat it like it just walked down from Mount Sinai holding a couple stone tablets."
The post-truth reality we live in is going to start looking like Orwell meets the Keystone Cops.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 11:39 AM on December 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
I remember an interview with Westlake as part of the DVD extras from the movie Payback where he talked a little about how the writing style of "Richard Stark" was different, and intended to sound like a completely different person.
this encourages a style of policing where evidence is compared to a database, a list of suspects is generated in descending order of probability, and then police work down the list until they find someone who doesn't have a good alibi and can't afford a lawyer. We can look forward to some miscarriages of justice using the new method.
Yeah. This is just more circumstantial evidence that's going to treated like unimpeachable truth. Because a chatbot that tells people to put glue on pizza also said you write like a terrorist.
These models weren't designed from a clean sheet of paper to create a new dystopian hell, but they're certainly going to. "I don't care what the model said, put some guardrails on it, make it say what we want then tell a judge to treat it like it just walked down from Mount Sinai holding a couple stone tablets."
The post-truth reality we live in is going to start looking like Orwell meets the Keystone Cops.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 11:39 AM on December 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
Somewhere in the middle of this (really interesting!) 2.5 hr examination of Ted Kaczynski's PhD thesis in mathematics is a little snippet where they talk about identifying him via the exact citation scheme & formatting style he used i.e. in his manifesto and other documents he published.
The clip looked like it was from some fictionalization of the Unabomber story or other, so I don't know how specifically true this was in that particular case.
But I do know that is potentially an interesting way to narrow down candidates. Those PhD formatting requirements are very, very specific, change regularly every few years, can be geographically specific (even to a specific university, say), and are quite specific to the subject area. That is to say, not only are formatting & citation requirements different in, say, the humanities vs social sciences vs physical sciences, but they are even quite different in specific subject areas - for example, math vs chemistry vs physics vs engineering of various sorts.
That exact clip is here, FYI: Corrections vs Errata.
posted by flug at 9:20 PM on December 2, 2024 [6 favorites]
The clip looked like it was from some fictionalization of the Unabomber story or other, so I don't know how specifically true this was in that particular case.
But I do know that is potentially an interesting way to narrow down candidates. Those PhD formatting requirements are very, very specific, change regularly every few years, can be geographically specific (even to a specific university, say), and are quite specific to the subject area. That is to say, not only are formatting & citation requirements different in, say, the humanities vs social sciences vs physical sciences, but they are even quite different in specific subject areas - for example, math vs chemistry vs physics vs engineering of various sorts.
That exact clip is here, FYI: Corrections vs Errata.
posted by flug at 9:20 PM on December 2, 2024 [6 favorites]
« Older santiago moreno - one man band | The coin Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
“ The criminal mastermind behind the murders uses an alias, François Loubet, and communicates mostly by email, taking advantage of every new technological advance to create another layer of camouflage: Link.
posted by Joeruckus at 2:02 AM on December 2, 2024 [5 favorites]