Charging (Both Forward And Backward)
December 2, 2024 2:38 PM Subscribe
Over a year ago, automotive YouTuber Robert Dunn ran a video showing the stark difference between the experience of charging an electric vehicle on the Supercharger network and the varied CCS charging platforms out in the wild. With a year marked with the opening of the Supercharger network to non-Tesla EVs and improvements to both NACS and CCS infrastructure, Dunn has revisited that assessment.
Overall, his conclusion is that the opening of the Supercharger network has been beneficial in two ways - one, it gives a wider array of EV owners access to a reliable network of chargers, making long duration trips more viable in EVs; and two, it's forced the CCS/non-Tesla operators to improve their product as well. And with this, it's becoming less important that the Supercharger network is being opened - in the video, he even encounters in the wild a non-Tesla NACS charger (which he proceeds to use to charge his CCS enabled Polestar 2 using the NACS-CCS adapter, ignoring the charger's CCS plug.)
But beyond that, Dunn gets into some more details with continuing issues and details regarding EVs, such as:
* The importance of higher voltage batteries (the Kia EV6 he uses as the CCS demonstrator has an 800V (well, more like 700V) battery, which allows it to pull higher rates from chargers than his 400V Polestar) in improving charging rates,
* Continuing from that, the way some chargers are skimping out on the cables used, which limits charging rates for lower voltage EVs,
* The limitations of the Supercharger network, such as the need to either use the Tesla app or register your car with the company to use the network, as well as the existing infrastructure being somewhat incompatible with higher voltage vehicles,
* The continued problems with where chargers (in both systems) are located, lacking amenities for the stop, and
* The value of "pay at the pump" systems, as he was able to use several CCS chargers directly sans app (which was useful when his Electrify America app crashed out on payment on him.)
Overall, his conclusion is that the opening of the Supercharger network has been beneficial in two ways - one, it gives a wider array of EV owners access to a reliable network of chargers, making long duration trips more viable in EVs; and two, it's forced the CCS/non-Tesla operators to improve their product as well. And with this, it's becoming less important that the Supercharger network is being opened - in the video, he even encounters in the wild a non-Tesla NACS charger (which he proceeds to use to charge his CCS enabled Polestar 2 using the NACS-CCS adapter, ignoring the charger's CCS plug.)
But beyond that, Dunn gets into some more details with continuing issues and details regarding EVs, such as:
* The importance of higher voltage batteries (the Kia EV6 he uses as the CCS demonstrator has an 800V (well, more like 700V) battery, which allows it to pull higher rates from chargers than his 400V Polestar) in improving charging rates,
* Continuing from that, the way some chargers are skimping out on the cables used, which limits charging rates for lower voltage EVs,
* The limitations of the Supercharger network, such as the need to either use the Tesla app or register your car with the company to use the network, as well as the existing infrastructure being somewhat incompatible with higher voltage vehicles,
* The continued problems with where chargers (in both systems) are located, lacking amenities for the stop, and
* The value of "pay at the pump" systems, as he was able to use several CCS chargers directly sans app (which was useful when his Electrify America app crashed out on payment on him.)
Thank you for summarizing this video in text!
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:11 PM on December 2 [4 favorites]
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:11 PM on December 2 [4 favorites]
Honestly I just wholeheartedly recommend watching every video on Aging Wheels if you're into the idea of a goofy nerd talking fondly about weird and/or old cars that he knows a whole lot about
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:06 PM on December 2 [3 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:06 PM on December 2 [3 favorites]
I wouldn't recommend watching his other videos if the idea of pouring money and time into fixing an unreliable car that's nigh unfixable gives you anxiety.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:56 PM on December 2
posted by 2N2222 at 6:56 PM on December 2
What my childhood taught me is that no car is unfixable or too unreliable if you’re stupid enough.
posted by q*ben at 6:40 AM on December 3 [1 favorite]
posted by q*ben at 6:40 AM on December 3 [1 favorite]
I bought an EV about two weeks ago and I'm still learning about the practical aspects.
A level 1 charger has been more than sufficient so far (for commuting in temps down to about -30⁰C), which has been a nice surprise.
I haven't yet used any other type of charger, but the plan is to do at least one test charge to figure out stuff like whether an app is needed or what have you.
Most of what I find is about the US or EU (or UK), but I think it's still helpful to get a sense of what the important aspects are.
Thanks for the post!
posted by Acari at 6:45 AM on December 3 [1 favorite]
A level 1 charger has been more than sufficient so far (for commuting in temps down to about -30⁰C), which has been a nice surprise.
I haven't yet used any other type of charger, but the plan is to do at least one test charge to figure out stuff like whether an app is needed or what have you.
Most of what I find is about the US or EU (or UK), but I think it's still helpful to get a sense of what the important aspects are.
Thanks for the post!
posted by Acari at 6:45 AM on December 3 [1 favorite]
For a related data point, the EV Cannonball record (NYC to LA) that's been held by a Tesla Model S since 2021 recently fell to a Porsche Taycan that was mostly charging on EA CCS chargers. Almost every stop they made had them charging above 300kW (V3 Superchargers max out at ~250kW).
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:25 AM on December 3
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:25 AM on December 3
I'm not sure I can sit through 40 minutes of every single stop he makes because I've probably had every CCS issue he's gonna run into myself. And I'm pretty sure I have yet to get reasonable behavior out of any Electrify America charger anywhere.
And, triple-yes, my phone tells me every so often "hey, you haven't run this app in 6 months, should I purge it?", and I'm like "noooo, that's the only thing that lets that one charger 2 miles off of route 99 next to that one off-brand grocery store, 2/3rds of the way to Fresno, work". I forget which weird "network" (I've only ever seen it on that one charger) it is, but it's the one we end up on every time we drive down that way, and it takes me several minutes of fumbling around before I remember again what the procedure is for this one.
Our 2022 Bolt EUV is going in to the shop on Friday for yet another software update (because I called them today to ask when the "Software Final Remedy" was installed for the class action suit, and they said "uhhh, about that"), I'll have to see what an NACS adapter costs. 'cause, yes, Tesla sucks on principle and all, but chargers that actually get maintained and are likely to be working? I'll compromise my moral standards for that.
If there's one thing that electric cars have laid bare, it's that, after damned nigh 4 decades in the software business I can look at everything about them, from charger implementations, to in-car software, to the phone apps, I can look at the automotive industry as a whole and say "how did you manage to not adopt any software best practices of the past decades?"
It's really astounding how vehicles where mechanical failure rates that result in fires in less than .02% of a fleet cause massive recalls and headlines can be built with practices that are so obviously fucked up and shoddy.
posted by straw at 8:08 AM on December 3 [1 favorite]
And, triple-yes, my phone tells me every so often "hey, you haven't run this app in 6 months, should I purge it?", and I'm like "noooo, that's the only thing that lets that one charger 2 miles off of route 99 next to that one off-brand grocery store, 2/3rds of the way to Fresno, work". I forget which weird "network" (I've only ever seen it on that one charger) it is, but it's the one we end up on every time we drive down that way, and it takes me several minutes of fumbling around before I remember again what the procedure is for this one.
Our 2022 Bolt EUV is going in to the shop on Friday for yet another software update (because I called them today to ask when the "Software Final Remedy" was installed for the class action suit, and they said "uhhh, about that"), I'll have to see what an NACS adapter costs. 'cause, yes, Tesla sucks on principle and all, but chargers that actually get maintained and are likely to be working? I'll compromise my moral standards for that.
If there's one thing that electric cars have laid bare, it's that, after damned nigh 4 decades in the software business I can look at everything about them, from charger implementations, to in-car software, to the phone apps, I can look at the automotive industry as a whole and say "how did you manage to not adopt any software best practices of the past decades?"
It's really astounding how vehicles where mechanical failure rates that result in fires in less than .02% of a fleet cause massive recalls and headlines can be built with practices that are so obviously fucked up and shoddy.
posted by straw at 8:08 AM on December 3 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure I can sit through 40 minutes of every single stop he makes because I've probably had every CCS issue he's gonna run into myself.
But that was the point of Dunn's followup - that he didn't face any major issues on his repeat trip, and in fact found the general environment improved overall. In fact, he found a number of CCS (and even one non-Tesla NACS) chargers with functional "pay at the pump" interfaces.
'cause, yes, Tesla sucks on principle and all, but chargers that actually get maintained and are likely to be working?
Well, given what happened with the wholescale firing of the Supercharger team, I'm not sure I'd trust the reliability of the network. There's also the fact that Tesla's infrastructure is aging and cannot properly support modern high voltage EVs (well, unless they have an incentive to do so with their failure at truck.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:03 AM on December 3 [2 favorites]
But that was the point of Dunn's followup - that he didn't face any major issues on his repeat trip, and in fact found the general environment improved overall. In fact, he found a number of CCS (and even one non-Tesla NACS) chargers with functional "pay at the pump" interfaces.
'cause, yes, Tesla sucks on principle and all, but chargers that actually get maintained and are likely to be working?
Well, given what happened with the wholescale firing of the Supercharger team, I'm not sure I'd trust the reliability of the network. There's also the fact that Tesla's infrastructure is aging and cannot properly support modern high voltage EVs (well, unless they have an incentive to do so with their failure at truck.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:03 AM on December 3 [2 favorites]
Haven't watched the whole video yet, but this is definitely heartening to see. As a Tesla Model Y owner who has come to loathe Elon Musk, I really want my next car to be 1) another long range EV, and 2) Not a Tesla. Which has not really been a feasible option up to now. Looks like I can start looking at other models in earnest. Thanks for sharing!
posted by Roommate at 9:04 AM on December 3
posted by Roommate at 9:04 AM on December 3
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You can stop in and charge for 15 minutes and get to your destination with enough charge to manage your arrival, or stay and enjoy the amenities and show up with a fuller battery.
posted by keep_evolving at 4:39 PM on December 2 [14 favorites]