Conjuring a respectable asset out of thin air
December 23, 2024 12:29 PM Subscribe
In this new Era of Good Feelings—to borrow a phrase from early-19th-century American history—skeptics have become believers, and a digital-economic instrument that was designed to circumvent, if not replace, the traditional financial system is becoming more and more integrated into it. from The Hysterical Crypto Bubble Somehow Became Respectable [The Atlantic; ungated]
I am also afraid that they will succeed in doing the “tech disruptor” model to finance, which sounds good in the sense of destroying stable but moribund, evil, institutions propped up by deals with a hopelessly corrupt government, except that they will be replaced with something equally evil and government back-dealing, but which has been streamlined for 21st-century capital extraction and the last vestiges of regulation and obligation to the public have been stripped off.
“It’s like uber but for the entire global financial system” just means workers get even more screwed and the ownership class has more unrestricted opportunities to screw us.
posted by Jon_Evil at 1:08 PM on December 23 [8 favorites]
“It’s like uber but for the entire global financial system” just means workers get even more screwed and the ownership class has more unrestricted opportunities to screw us.
posted by Jon_Evil at 1:08 PM on December 23 [8 favorites]
Bitcoin is not actually doing that well. Yeah, it’s up, but trading is very thin and mostly via a small number of holders. New money is not coming into crypto, and they are desperately hoping that Trump will give them access to the financial system so the taxpayers will back their risky gambling.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:18 PM on December 23 [12 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:18 PM on December 23 [12 favorites]
I can't see any other outcome for Bitcoin than total collapse at some point. The intrinsic value arguments for it are, afaict, almost completely spurious.
My only question is what happens when it does? It seems to have hit the threshold where a collapse in value may represent a risk to the wider economy, and in those scenarios we frequently see government bailouts of some form or another.
posted by Pemdas at 1:25 PM on December 23 [5 favorites]
My only question is what happens when it does? It seems to have hit the threshold where a collapse in value may represent a risk to the wider economy, and in those scenarios we frequently see government bailouts of some form or another.
posted by Pemdas at 1:25 PM on December 23 [5 favorites]
Also, to hell with The Atlantic’s “became respectable” framing. Crypto is the same sewer of bad faith dealing, reckless speculation, and fraud that it ever was. If same investors stay away from it, and it can be prevented from totally entrenching itself in the financial system (neither is assured, alas), it will stay the same marginal thing it’s always been. And, if the Tether crime facilitation machine ever breaks, it’s going to be a gristly day for crypto.
Basically, if people continue to reject crypto’s empty promise, it will never be respectable, no matter how many puff pieces get published.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:43 PM on December 23 [13 favorites]
Basically, if people continue to reject crypto’s empty promise, it will never be respectable, no matter how many puff pieces get published.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:43 PM on December 23 [13 favorites]
Crypto didn’t become respectable, the grifters captured the presidency, there’s a difference
posted by clew at 1:53 PM on December 23 [37 favorites]
posted by clew at 1:53 PM on December 23 [37 favorites]
I can't read past the opening paragraphs, but I assume the Atlantic referenced the highly respectable trading of the Huak tuah coin that recently occurred?
posted by Atreides at 2:17 PM on December 23 [4 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 2:17 PM on December 23 [4 favorites]
Kamala Harris will be out of a job soon. I see her joining the board of directors at a crypto joint.
posted by Lemkin at 2:18 PM on December 23 [3 favorites]
posted by Lemkin at 2:18 PM on December 23 [3 favorites]
“Respectability” is always about consensus of the powerful anyway. “Respectable” jobs, “respectable” arts, words, languages, identities etc etc. They’re correct with that framing but probably don’t actually understand why.
posted by wemayfreeze at 2:28 PM on December 23 [5 favorites]
posted by wemayfreeze at 2:28 PM on December 23 [5 favorites]
I don’t have any bitcoin, but I can’t help thinking I’d be better off right now if I had bought some bitcoin every time I joined my fellow smart people in mocking bitcoin over the last few years.
Like sure, the lottery is a tax on the innumerate, but one of those idiots gets rich once in a while and I never get rich.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 2:33 PM on December 23 [4 favorites]
Like sure, the lottery is a tax on the innumerate, but one of those idiots gets rich once in a while and I never get rich.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 2:33 PM on December 23 [4 favorites]
"The intrinsic value arguments for [BTC] are afaict almost completely spurious." FTFY
At some point, our entire ponzi financial system collapses, but one should expect bitcoin goes down first, really not sure how it survived this long. lol
As technical asides: Bitcoin was never decentralized, since only a few mining pools control everything. At some point, four guys who controlled most bitcoin mining stood on stage together. Also bitcoin's deflationary economics make double spending possible. Although ETH is very dumb too, they avoided those bone headed mistakes, resisted centralization somewhat, and ultimately dumped proof-of-work for proof-of-stake, where they could force some decentralization. All other proof-of-work coins wind up completely broken.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:34 PM on December 23 [5 favorites]
At some point, our entire ponzi financial system collapses, but one should expect bitcoin goes down first, really not sure how it survived this long. lol
As technical asides: Bitcoin was never decentralized, since only a few mining pools control everything. At some point, four guys who controlled most bitcoin mining stood on stage together. Also bitcoin's deflationary economics make double spending possible. Although ETH is very dumb too, they avoided those bone headed mistakes, resisted centralization somewhat, and ultimately dumped proof-of-work for proof-of-stake, where they could force some decentralization. All other proof-of-work coins wind up completely broken.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:34 PM on December 23 [5 favorites]
MetaFilter: The intrinsic value arguments for it are, afaict, almost completely spurious.
posted by Lemkin at 2:59 PM on December 23 [4 favorites]
posted by Lemkin at 2:59 PM on December 23 [4 favorites]
Crypto Got What It Wanted in November’s Election. Now What?
[ungated] by National Treasure, Molly Whiite in Bloomberg (!)
posted by lalochezia at 3:04 PM on December 23 [6 favorites]
Crypto Got What It Wanted in November’s Election. Now What?
Once cryptobros finish putting their claws into legitimate financial systems, get ready for the next cryptocrash and the Greatest Depression. That's what.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:23 PM on December 23 [12 favorites]
Once cryptobros finish putting their claws into legitimate financial systems, get ready for the next cryptocrash and the Greatest Depression. That's what.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:23 PM on December 23 [12 favorites]
How can I steal your money if you are going to be watching?
I'll turn it into Bitcoin!
The Trump/Putin Crime Syndicate is the biggest criminal conspiracy in history. The large sucking sound you will be hearing is US dollars disappearing into Crypto at a horrendous rate. Any major bank that you see with some sort of Crypto product is at serious risk for criminal fraud.
If you thought the Savings and Loan Crisis or the 2008 "Bank Crisis" was a disaster, wait for banks to suddenly disappear when the Crypto Crime Crisis comes to pass.
posted by pthomas745 at 3:58 PM on December 23 [2 favorites]
I'll turn it into Bitcoin!
The Trump/Putin Crime Syndicate is the biggest criminal conspiracy in history. The large sucking sound you will be hearing is US dollars disappearing into Crypto at a horrendous rate. Any major bank that you see with some sort of Crypto product is at serious risk for criminal fraud.
If you thought the Savings and Loan Crisis or the 2008 "Bank Crisis" was a disaster, wait for banks to suddenly disappear when the Crypto Crime Crisis comes to pass.
posted by pthomas745 at 3:58 PM on December 23 [2 favorites]
huh, so much for my plans to retire in the next 3 years, if I cannot rely on the financial system to protect my assets.
posted by suelac at 4:18 PM on December 23 [2 favorites]
posted by suelac at 4:18 PM on December 23 [2 favorites]
huh, so much for my plans to retire in the next 3 years, if I cannot rely on the financial system to protect my assets
That's probably part of the "logic" here.
posted by mollweide at 4:23 PM on December 23 [6 favorites]
That's probably part of the "logic" here.
posted by mollweide at 4:23 PM on December 23 [6 favorites]
proof-of-work = proof-of-waste
posted by torokunai2 at 6:22 PM on December 23 [5 favorites]
posted by torokunai2 at 6:22 PM on December 23 [5 favorites]
I was looking at the mutual funds in my 401k and trying to rebalance them like a respectable person, and one of them had Coinbase as a top holding. I was surprised to see this.
In addition to this, Florida's state retirement fund already holds some crypto and is looking to increase how much crypto it has.
I am surprised to see how crypto and crypto adjacent things are making it into the types of investments that are supposed to be the most boring investments.
posted by Friendly Craft Person at 6:23 PM on December 23 [2 favorites]
In addition to this, Florida's state retirement fund already holds some crypto and is looking to increase how much crypto it has.
I am surprised to see how crypto and crypto adjacent things are making it into the types of investments that are supposed to be the most boring investments.
posted by Friendly Craft Person at 6:23 PM on December 23 [2 favorites]
I like Naked Capitalism's way of describing bitcoin as "prosecution futures."
posted by doctornemo at 6:41 PM on December 23 [7 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 6:41 PM on December 23 [7 favorites]
It's not just the United States. Canadian officials are looking at working crypscrip into how basic government functions are paid for. This dumb greed is going to bankrupt everyone, except the scammers at the top of the pyramid who get protected by the Trumps and Putins and their ilk.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:44 PM on December 23 [2 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:44 PM on December 23 [2 favorites]
I don’t have any bitcoin, but I can’t help thinking I’d be better off right now if I had bought some bitcoin every time I joined my fellow smart people in mocking bitcoin over the last few years.
I call this hedging. You win either way! Bitcoin fails, you get to call them morons. Bitcoin goes up... you're secretly rich.
posted by xdvesper at 7:52 PM on December 23 [3 favorites]
I call this hedging. You win either way! Bitcoin fails, you get to call them morons. Bitcoin goes up... you're secretly rich.
posted by xdvesper at 7:52 PM on December 23 [3 favorites]
Crypto has the practical ability to transfer wealth around bypassing bank controls against money laundering.
There are billions of dollars of criminal assets that want to become clean, and Crypto is a route to do that. You can transfer "points" from one criminal enterprise to another without filing paperwork that the US feds require to do the same to prove you aren't drug dealers or Iranians or North Koreans or Moskovites evading sanctions.
And you can even sometimes convert it into useful cash.
It isn't a surprise that bitcoin bos are backing a swindler in chief whose enterprises are backed by Russian money, and who talks about ending Russian sanctions.
It is the prohibition problem. When enough economic power is illegal, it starts to corrupt the enforcement mechanisms. By using the financial and political system as a weapon against crime and conquest, the financial and political system became a target to be corrupted.
posted by NotAYakk at 8:29 PM on December 23 [2 favorites]
There are billions of dollars of criminal assets that want to become clean, and Crypto is a route to do that. You can transfer "points" from one criminal enterprise to another without filing paperwork that the US feds require to do the same to prove you aren't drug dealers or Iranians or North Koreans or Moskovites evading sanctions.
And you can even sometimes convert it into useful cash.
It isn't a surprise that bitcoin bos are backing a swindler in chief whose enterprises are backed by Russian money, and who talks about ending Russian sanctions.
It is the prohibition problem. When enough economic power is illegal, it starts to corrupt the enforcement mechanisms. By using the financial and political system as a weapon against crime and conquest, the financial and political system became a target to be corrupted.
posted by NotAYakk at 8:29 PM on December 23 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Hey, noting here: Please don't do the thing where you drop in the name of some politician / person you don't like completely randomly in a pejorative way just because. Kamala Harris has nothing to do with this post, or the linked article. If you are just trying to get a rise out of people who like her, that's called trolling and is a bannable offense if continued. Let me know if there's some context I'm missing.
posted by taz (staff) at 9:29 PM on December 23 [8 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 9:29 PM on December 23 [8 favorites]
I don’t have any bitcoin, but I can’t help thinking I’d be better off right now if I had bought some bitcoin every time I joined my fellow smart people in mocking bitcoin over the last few years.
How do you think the people who did buy Bitcoin but actually spent it (i.e. on drugs) feel?
posted by atoxyl at 12:14 AM on December 24 [1 favorite]
How do you think the people who did buy Bitcoin but actually spent it (i.e. on drugs) feel?
posted by atoxyl at 12:14 AM on December 24 [1 favorite]
(which is an example of why “inherently deflationary” is not a good property for currency, although if the only things one can purchase with cryptocurrency are illegal drugs it may benefit from attracting a userbase that isn’t thinking about this too much)
posted by atoxyl at 12:18 AM on December 24 [1 favorite]
posted by atoxyl at 12:18 AM on December 24 [1 favorite]
proof-of-work = proof-of-waste
Turning fossil fuels directly into waste heat with no valuable intermediate products!
posted by 1adam12 at 6:25 AM on December 24 [4 favorites]
Turning fossil fuels directly into waste heat with no valuable intermediate products!
posted by 1adam12 at 6:25 AM on December 24 [4 favorites]
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