No downloads for u
February 16, 2025 7:12 AM Subscribe
PSA: Amazon ending downloads of kindle books On 26 February, Amazon will stop allowing you to download a copy of your ebooks. This has been a primary way to import and strip the drm from ebooks using calibre.
If you still have an old kindle registered to your account, you should download them as files for that kindle, which are easier for calibre to deal with. Then you can set up calibre at your leisure to strip the drm.
Downloading is a slightly annoying multi-click process so if you're already set up for yarr matey activities you might well find it easier to download the yarr matey versions.
If you still have an old kindle registered to your account, you should download them as files for that kindle, which are easier for calibre to deal with. Then you can set up calibre at your leisure to strip the drm.
Downloading is a slightly annoying multi-click process so if you're already set up for yarr matey activities you might well find it easier to download the yarr matey versions.
Welp. Guess that's my last purchase from their e-bookstore. No more owning books from them.
Remember : if you can only access a file with a program that calls home, you don't own the file.
posted by lalochezia at 7:15 AM on February 16 [43 favorites]
Remember : if you can only access a file with a program that calls home, you don't own the file.
posted by lalochezia at 7:15 AM on February 16 [43 favorites]
I don't understand. My ancient kindle looks like a drive to my computer. Did that change? Can't you just plug in the kindle and get the file off the kindle?
posted by surlyben at 7:26 AM on February 16 [1 favorite]
posted by surlyben at 7:26 AM on February 16 [1 favorite]
My understanding is that that should still work, --but-- if your kindle is newer the drm on the file will be notably harder / impossible-at-present for calibre to break, which is a real bar to long-term archiving.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:33 AM on February 16 [5 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:33 AM on February 16 [5 favorites]
It look like it's probably only for linux but I just used this to download (checks) 314 titles: https://github.com/bellisk/BulkKindleUSBDownloader [h/t: someone on mastodon whose post I misplaced]
I guess I'll be giving ebooks.com a try for the Charlie Stross title I've been waiting to read.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 7:34 AM on February 16 [8 favorites]
I guess I'll be giving ebooks.com a try for the Charlie Stross title I've been waiting to read.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 7:34 AM on February 16 [8 favorites]
antecedent, thanks for the link to that script. I spent a tedious hour or so yesterday clicky-downloading about 600 books, but my partner has about 1000 and this may make our lives easier today…
posted by learning from frequent failure at 8:02 AM on February 16
posted by learning from frequent failure at 8:02 AM on February 16
Well, now that they’ve corralled all their workers into the office they have to find them something to do - and, as ever, line goes up, so the small loophole of “people who download their old books” has to be closed.
posted by The River Ivel at 8:09 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 8:09 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
the antecedent of that pronoun, is there a For Dummies guide to installing that script? I've got a ton of books to download and I'm a total script dweeb (on Windows). I've got an old Kindle device, Calibre, the Kindle app. All I want is to know that I can keep the books I've purchased, dang it.
posted by fight or flight at 8:13 AM on February 16
posted by fight or flight at 8:13 AM on February 16
fight or flight, no, I don't have any advice for non-linux folks on how to install that script. It looks like some of the requirements, like pyvirtualdisplay, are linux-only anyway. Sorry I don't have more favorable news for you.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 8:17 AM on February 16
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 8:17 AM on February 16
Oh god this is going to involve so much clicking.
posted by mittens at 8:19 AM on February 16 [9 favorites]
posted by mittens at 8:19 AM on February 16 [9 favorites]
fingers crossed for everyone who is dealing with this bullshit personally. may your sunday not be entirely ruined, may your clicking finger be strong and swift
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:23 AM on February 16 [6 favorites]
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:23 AM on February 16 [6 favorites]
My kid wanted more of their manga on the Kindle, at the same time as their books. But the storage is ridiculously small so that was not happening without endless management, syncing, etc. So I checked this list and got a Meebook. It has the same e-ink as the latest Kindles but also a simple SD card slot to put in a 1 TB card. It also runs Android apps that can transparently open different comic book and ebook formats. No more futzing with formats and resizing. Never going back to Amazon's janky walked garden. Highly recommended.
posted by meehawl at 8:25 AM on February 16 [17 favorites]
posted by meehawl at 8:25 AM on February 16 [17 favorites]
if you're already set up for yarr matey activities
My harbor of choice has announced:
posted by Lemkin at 8:38 AM on February 16 [4 favorites]
My harbor of choice has announced:
We’re looking for experienced Amazon gift card resellers. Please contact us with details (years in the business, price, max monthly volume, domains and amounts supported).The ironies of life with a parrot on your shoulder.
posted by Lemkin at 8:38 AM on February 16 [4 favorites]
I think there is a good chance that this is in preparation to ending sideloading support altogether. Well, this pretty much guarantees that I will never buy an ebook from their store and that my next e-reader will not be a Kindle. My current Kindle will permanently stay in airplane mode.
posted by donio at 8:39 AM on February 16 [11 favorites]
posted by donio at 8:39 AM on February 16 [11 favorites]
Alternately, just download unlicensed copies from Anna's Archive or Z-Library when you need them.
I loathe Amazon's monopoly over the ebook market. Kindle is just good enough that no one can compete. But the book prices are too high and the reader diversity is too low.
OTOH I've tried using other ebook readers with my public library. And the Android apps are godawful. Boundless (formerly Axis360) is the worst. Hoopla is awful too.
posted by Nelson at 8:40 AM on February 16 [18 favorites]
I loathe Amazon's monopoly over the ebook market. Kindle is just good enough that no one can compete. But the book prices are too high and the reader diversity is too low.
OTOH I've tried using other ebook readers with my public library. And the Android apps are godawful. Boundless (formerly Axis360) is the worst. Hoopla is awful too.
posted by Nelson at 8:40 AM on February 16 [18 favorites]
Necessary steps before they start disappearing books?
posted by flamk at 8:44 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
posted by flamk at 8:44 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
I'm a fan of the Lithium app on Android, and the Yomu app on iOs for epub files now that Marvin is dead, and for comics I like Comic Screen for Android and Chunky for iOs.
None of them are perfect but they are all pretty good.
posted by chavenet at 8:51 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
None of them are perfect but they are all pretty good.
posted by chavenet at 8:51 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
Necessary steps before they start disappearing books?
Realistically, the percentage of Amazon's market that downloads and backs up their book is too small to make any difference in any 'disappearing.'
I just called my mom to ask her if she wanted help backing up the thousands of books she's purchased for her Kindles over the years. She's more aware of the issues than the general public (e.g. she knows she doesn't "own" them), but realistically she doesn't see herself moving away from the Kindle system any time soon. She never bothered to back up her books before because it's just too much of a hassle - and that's someone who knows of the risk. Realistically, she doesn't see herself moving away from Kindle any time soon.
Most of Amazon's Kindle customers aren't even thinking about it, aren't even aware of it. MetaFilter is a really skewed sample.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:56 AM on February 16 [18 favorites]
Realistically, the percentage of Amazon's market that downloads and backs up their book is too small to make any difference in any 'disappearing.'
I just called my mom to ask her if she wanted help backing up the thousands of books she's purchased for her Kindles over the years. She's more aware of the issues than the general public (e.g. she knows she doesn't "own" them), but realistically she doesn't see herself moving away from the Kindle system any time soon. She never bothered to back up her books before because it's just too much of a hassle - and that's someone who knows of the risk. Realistically, she doesn't see herself moving away from Kindle any time soon.
Most of Amazon's Kindle customers aren't even thinking about it, aren't even aware of it. MetaFilter is a really skewed sample.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:56 AM on February 16 [18 favorites]
Kindle is just good enough that no one can compete.
Stuff and nonsense. Kobo e-readers have been around for 15 years, offering cutting-edge features like EPUB support.
posted by Lemkin at 8:58 AM on February 16 [32 favorites]
Stuff and nonsense. Kobo e-readers have been around for 15 years, offering cutting-edge features like EPUB support.
posted by Lemkin at 8:58 AM on February 16 [32 favorites]
Amazon already disappeared books from customers’ Kindles over fifteen years ago, including (of course) 1984 by George Orwell. Previously.
posted by mbrubeck at 9:01 AM on February 16 [8 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 9:01 AM on February 16 [8 favorites]
Love my kobo.
posted by whatevernot at 9:06 AM on February 16 [4 favorites]
posted by whatevernot at 9:06 AM on February 16 [4 favorites]
Sure, Kobo's a great piece of hardware. Estimates are they have 3% to 10% of the market for ebooks. (Compare 80% for Kindle). Why, that's even better that Firefox market share!
posted by Nelson at 9:20 AM on February 16
posted by Nelson at 9:20 AM on February 16
doesn't look like the kfx 2.19.0 or DeDRM 10.0.9 calibre plugins are working on the kfx's or azw3's I just "download&transfer[red] via usb".
I'm not particularly au fait with calibre, but it looks like the plugins are installed. Trying to convert kfx or axw3 titles I've downloaded locally just come up with they can't be converted because DRM. Are we just too late to the party with the current calibre plugins?
I do have a number of older books which have been residing on my paperwhite for a couple of years, but no idea which ones might be "worth the candle" in terms of trying to download and convert the relevant bits (they show up as folders with numerous nonidentical file structures inside, some containing kfx's at some point, others containing nothing that looks like a 'main content file')
Also it's raining.
posted by aesop at 9:23 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
I'm not particularly au fait with calibre, but it looks like the plugins are installed. Trying to convert kfx or axw3 titles I've downloaded locally just come up with they can't be converted because DRM. Are we just too late to the party with the current calibre plugins?
I do have a number of older books which have been residing on my paperwhite for a couple of years, but no idea which ones might be "worth the candle" in terms of trying to download and convert the relevant bits (they show up as folders with numerous nonidentical file structures inside, some containing kfx's at some point, others containing nothing that looks like a 'main content file')
Also it's raining.
posted by aesop at 9:23 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
MetaFilter: MetaFilter is a really skewed sample.
posted by box at 9:24 AM on February 16 [10 favorites]
posted by box at 9:24 AM on February 16 [10 favorites]
Are we just too late to the party with the current calibre plugins?
I expect so. But the pirate heart is never vanquished. If you download your Amazon books now while you still can, the means of cracking them will come along eventually.
I like to think of it making the sound that Kane’s helmet does in Alien after they laser it down the middle of the faceplate and push the halves apart.
posted by Lemkin at 9:29 AM on February 16 [5 favorites]
I expect so. But the pirate heart is never vanquished. If you download your Amazon books now while you still can, the means of cracking them will come along eventually.
I like to think of it making the sound that Kane’s helmet does in Alien after they laser it down the middle of the faceplate and push the halves apart.
posted by Lemkin at 9:29 AM on February 16 [5 favorites]
Fine! I'll just get a laser disk of The Three Stooges Go To Mars!
posted by Czjewel at 9:31 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
posted by Czjewel at 9:31 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
> Necessary steps before they start disappearing books?
Put it out of your mind and move on with your life? If it happens you’ll probably never even notice anyway.
I’ve had Kindles since 2010ish and have bought thousands of ebooks over the past 15 years. I’ve backed up 0 of them to date and plan to back up 0 of them before this upcoming change.
Getting upset at Amazon and then spending a bunch of my time and energy backing up things I probably don’t care that much about anyway isn’t a hobby of mine. YMMV.
posted by paulcole at 9:34 AM on February 16 [12 favorites]
Put it out of your mind and move on with your life? If it happens you’ll probably never even notice anyway.
I’ve had Kindles since 2010ish and have bought thousands of ebooks over the past 15 years. I’ve backed up 0 of them to date and plan to back up 0 of them before this upcoming change.
Getting upset at Amazon and then spending a bunch of my time and energy backing up things I probably don’t care that much about anyway isn’t a hobby of mine. YMMV.
posted by paulcole at 9:34 AM on February 16 [12 favorites]
This is probably the current state of the art in Kindle Kracking.
posted by Lemkin at 9:38 AM on February 16 [9 favorites]
posted by Lemkin at 9:38 AM on February 16 [9 favorites]
doesn't look like the kfx 2.19.0 or DeDRM 10.0.9 calibre plugins are working on the kfx's or azw3's I just "download&transfer[red] via usb".
If you have an old kindle still registered to your account, you should "download and transfer" for that one instead of a newish kindle. Older kindles can't use the current drm and so files downloaded for them will have old and busted drm. Or, yarr.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:40 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
If you have an old kindle still registered to your account, you should "download and transfer" for that one instead of a newish kindle. Older kindles can't use the current drm and so files downloaded for them will have old and busted drm. Or, yarr.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:40 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
Not to be an asshole, but there will never be any drm on physical media. Heck, you don't even need a charger.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 9:45 AM on February 16 [7 favorites]
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 9:45 AM on February 16 [7 favorites]
Overdrive. Rent ‘em from de libary.
posted by whatevernot at 9:49 AM on February 16 [5 favorites]
posted by whatevernot at 9:49 AM on February 16 [5 favorites]
Not to be an asshole, but there will never be any drm on physical media.
There will never be adjustable font sizes on them either.
posted by Lemkin at 9:52 AM on February 16 [36 favorites]
There will never be adjustable font sizes on them either.
posted by Lemkin at 9:52 AM on February 16 [36 favorites]
but there will never be any drm on physical media.
Ya, but it's awkward to put my library in my carry on.
posted by Mitheral at 9:53 AM on February 16 [11 favorites]
Ya, but it's awkward to put my library in my carry on.
posted by Mitheral at 9:53 AM on February 16 [11 favorites]
You can adjust the font size by holding the book further away.
posted by whatevernot at 9:55 AM on February 16 [10 favorites]
posted by whatevernot at 9:55 AM on February 16 [10 favorites]
Sure, if you want it smaller.
Getting upset at Amazon and then spending a bunch of my time and energy backing up things I probably don’t care that much about anyway isn’t a hobby of mine. YMMV.
Mine certainly does. I back up my books as I buy them and just side load them to my ePub using Kobo. And when it gets damaged or lost I just sideload them again on my new device. Yarr matey books that aren't legally available is even easier as I don't have to get my card out.
posted by Mitheral at 10:00 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
Getting upset at Amazon and then spending a bunch of my time and energy backing up things I probably don’t care that much about anyway isn’t a hobby of mine. YMMV.
Mine certainly does. I back up my books as I buy them and just side load them to my ePub using Kobo. And when it gets damaged or lost I just sideload them again on my new device. Yarr matey books that aren't legally available is even easier as I don't have to get my card out.
posted by Mitheral at 10:00 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
> also i talked to god and bezos's file reads "unlikable. liked by no one. a bitter, unlikable loner, whose passing shall not be mourned. shall not be mourned." that's exactly what it says. very formal. very official.
so one of my current [hobbies / ways to cope] is to say "he's the amazon guy, right?" whenever people mention elon musk.
that is all.
posted by Sperry Topsider at 10:08 AM on February 16 [24 favorites]
so one of my current [hobbies / ways to cope] is to say "he's the amazon guy, right?" whenever people mention elon musk.
that is all.
posted by Sperry Topsider at 10:08 AM on February 16 [24 favorites]
I think I'm in the "don't have the bandwidth to worry about this" camp at the moment, but I do appreciate the head's up.
I'm currently using ebooks on kindle (which totally support epub now, by the way) to take notes for a scholarly project. The kindle app (my paperwhite is not internet-enabled though I do like the reading experience) makes it very easy to highlight passages, add notes to them if you want, and eventually export all the highlights as a single document. It's working really well for me. I've experimented with some other options, including reading available books in Libby and Hoopla, and they don't have the ease-of-highlighting-and-exporting feature.
posted by Well I never at 10:11 AM on February 16 [1 favorite]
I'm currently using ebooks on kindle (which totally support epub now, by the way) to take notes for a scholarly project. The kindle app (my paperwhite is not internet-enabled though I do like the reading experience) makes it very easy to highlight passages, add notes to them if you want, and eventually export all the highlights as a single document. It's working really well for me. I've experimented with some other options, including reading available books in Libby and Hoopla, and they don't have the ease-of-highlighting-and-exporting feature.
posted by Well I never at 10:11 AM on February 16 [1 favorite]
if you're already set up for yarr matey activities
then you'll never again have digital listening, viewing or reading materials yoinked with no possibility of a refund for your "purchases".
If you're not: I recommend paying five euros a month to ultra.cc for their cheapest plan, then using their one-click installer to enable Transmission version 4.
Sharing is caring. You wouldn't steal a car, but Amazon absolutely would steal yours.
posted by flabdablet at 10:14 AM on February 16 [5 favorites]
then you'll never again have digital listening, viewing or reading materials yoinked with no possibility of a refund for your "purchases".
If you're not: I recommend paying five euros a month to ultra.cc for their cheapest plan, then using their one-click installer to enable Transmission version 4.
Sharing is caring. You wouldn't steal a car, but Amazon absolutely would steal yours.
posted by flabdablet at 10:14 AM on February 16 [5 favorites]
yarr matey activities *chef's kiss* for that brilliant phrase
and thanks for this thread!! off to fire up my kindle!
posted by supermedusa at 10:18 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
and thanks for this thread!! off to fire up my kindle!
posted by supermedusa at 10:18 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
I thankfully went through and did a mass-download of all my Kindle books about a year ago and have been keeping on top of downloads ever since, so I thankfully don't have to worry about this at the moment. Guess I'll be switching storefronts soon though, as this is the only way my Kindle gets books (it's permanently offline).
posted by zbaco at 10:19 AM on February 16
posted by zbaco at 10:19 AM on February 16
“Sure, if you want it smaller.”
Oh, for larger, just hold the book a bit closer.
posted by whatevernot at 10:27 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
Oh, for larger, just hold the book a bit closer.
posted by whatevernot at 10:27 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
I'm currently using ebooks on kindle (which totally support epub now, by the way)
This is not my idea of “totally”.
For one thing, its link to the “Send to Kindle Windows” app it tells me to use is dead.
posted by Lemkin at 10:29 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
This is not my idea of “totally”.
For one thing, its link to the “Send to Kindle Windows” app it tells me to use is dead.
posted by Lemkin at 10:29 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
I’ve been spotty about downloading my books over the years, but thankfully I don’t have many (my primary use was borrowing library books because the ebooks were so freaking expensive most of the time) and I just verified that I have an “old” kindle, so I have a project this week to back up and learn how to side load everything for the future. I’ve been slowly cutting our use of Amazon, this is just one more way to disconnect and I’m already looking at a different eReader once this one dies.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 10:37 AM on February 16 [1 favorite]
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 10:37 AM on February 16 [1 favorite]
ok, so sorry but I don't entirely understand.
when I do (rarely) buy books from that place, I buy them on the device that has my kindle app. are they not downloaded onto there? do I have to do something else to prevent loss of these e-books I have purchased? thanks so much for whatever help!
posted by supermedusa at 10:37 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
when I do (rarely) buy books from that place, I buy them on the device that has my kindle app. are they not downloaded onto there? do I have to do something else to prevent loss of these e-books I have purchased? thanks so much for whatever help!
posted by supermedusa at 10:37 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
Oh, for larger, just hold the book a bit closer.
and if you want italic, tilt the book slightly
posted by pyramid termite at 10:40 AM on February 16 [14 favorites]
and if you want italic, tilt the book slightly
posted by pyramid termite at 10:40 AM on February 16 [14 favorites]
For bold text, hold your breath until you almost pass out. For serif fonts, smoke weed. Too much lsd and you get dingbats.
posted by whatevernot at 10:42 AM on February 16 [14 favorites]
posted by whatevernot at 10:42 AM on February 16 [14 favorites]
I think, supermedusa, is that without downloading and backing up elsewhere, then Amazon can pluck books back off your kindle (as you don’t really own them).
posted by whatevernot at 10:44 AM on February 16 [5 favorites]
posted by whatevernot at 10:44 AM on February 16 [5 favorites]
are they not downloaded onto there?
Not in a form that guarantees that you'll be able to continue reading them regardless of corporate whim. They're encrypted with DRM keys that your device needs to be able to fetch from Amazon in order to display them to you. Amazon has the technical power to revoke any such key at any time.
If you read the fine print for any DRM-encumbered purchase, you will likely find that what you've bought is not the actual work you thought you were buying but merely a licence to use it - a licence, furthermore, that can be revoked without notice at any time by the vendor. You'll probably also find that by completing the purchase, you have waived your right to sue the vendor and instead agreed that all disputes between you can be handled only by a vendor-provided arbitrator.
posted by flabdablet at 10:47 AM on February 16 [7 favorites]
Not in a form that guarantees that you'll be able to continue reading them regardless of corporate whim. They're encrypted with DRM keys that your device needs to be able to fetch from Amazon in order to display them to you. Amazon has the technical power to revoke any such key at any time.
If you read the fine print for any DRM-encumbered purchase, you will likely find that what you've bought is not the actual work you thought you were buying but merely a licence to use it - a licence, furthermore, that can be revoked without notice at any time by the vendor. You'll probably also find that by completing the purchase, you have waived your right to sue the vendor and instead agreed that all disputes between you can be handled only by a vendor-provided arbitrator.
posted by flabdablet at 10:47 AM on February 16 [7 favorites]
Wrt to my earlier comment Meebook/Android e-ink readers. You can also, of course, install Amazon's Android "Kindle" app and access your Amazon account/books as if it was a regular tablet, etc.
posted by meehawl at 10:47 AM on February 16 [1 favorite]
posted by meehawl at 10:47 AM on February 16 [1 favorite]
thanks whatevernot that is what I thought. I will move them to a backup yaaarrrd drive, matey.
posted by supermedusa at 10:47 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 10:47 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
Getting upset at Amazon and then spending a bunch of my time and energy backing up things I probably don’t care that much about anyway isn’t a hobby of mine. YMMV.
Please understand, there is a great deal I hate about Amazon, and I believe that their work force must be unionized, but...this is where I'm coming from, too. As a GP, I believe that those ebooks are mine and I should be able to do with them as I damn well please. But IRL, I own probably thousands of ebooks, I've probably read fewer than half of them, and I'm sure I own hundreds I have no memory of buying. I know that what Amazon is doing is shady and uncool, but I also know that this has zero effect on my life, unless I spend a whole ass Sunday downloading shit, in which case it will have the effect of ruining my weekend. I do not believe that I would have ever known Amazon had made this change, had I not seen this post, if I lived another 250 years.
May I just say, though, that the Kindle is almost all of why Amazon has what is teetering on the edge of a monopoly on ebooks, and I consider this a problem without any great solution at present. As noted above, Hoopla is a poor replacement for Kindle ebooks; if you would like to look at text on a glowing monitor, it's great. The Kindle itself is a gentle reading experience without glare or eyestrain; Hoopla can give you the same text, but in an uncomfortable format that rewards you with migraines if used too long. What I actually want Hoopla to do is let me check out ebooks I can download to my Kindle.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:01 AM on February 16 [4 favorites]
Please understand, there is a great deal I hate about Amazon, and I believe that their work force must be unionized, but...this is where I'm coming from, too. As a GP, I believe that those ebooks are mine and I should be able to do with them as I damn well please. But IRL, I own probably thousands of ebooks, I've probably read fewer than half of them, and I'm sure I own hundreds I have no memory of buying. I know that what Amazon is doing is shady and uncool, but I also know that this has zero effect on my life, unless I spend a whole ass Sunday downloading shit, in which case it will have the effect of ruining my weekend. I do not believe that I would have ever known Amazon had made this change, had I not seen this post, if I lived another 250 years.
May I just say, though, that the Kindle is almost all of why Amazon has what is teetering on the edge of a monopoly on ebooks, and I consider this a problem without any great solution at present. As noted above, Hoopla is a poor replacement for Kindle ebooks; if you would like to look at text on a glowing monitor, it's great. The Kindle itself is a gentle reading experience without glare or eyestrain; Hoopla can give you the same text, but in an uncomfortable format that rewards you with migraines if used too long. What I actually want Hoopla to do is let me check out ebooks I can download to my Kindle.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:01 AM on February 16 [4 favorites]
I will move them to a backup yaaarrrd drive, matey
That won't be enough to remove Amazon's ability to make them useless to you unless you also strip the DRM using something like Calibre.
That's the yaarr part, because it counts as defeating a technical protection measure, a move that the DMCA makes illegal in the US.
Merely acquiring a copy that somebody else has already DRM-stripped is not illegal in most jurisdictions as long as you don't then pass it along to others, though if you've already paid Amazon for the work it might well breach the terms of a licensing contract that you "agreed to" by virtue of not realizing it existed.
posted by flabdablet at 11:14 AM on February 16 [4 favorites]
That won't be enough to remove Amazon's ability to make them useless to you unless you also strip the DRM using something like Calibre.
That's the yaarr part, because it counts as defeating a technical protection measure, a move that the DMCA makes illegal in the US.
Merely acquiring a copy that somebody else has already DRM-stripped is not illegal in most jurisdictions as long as you don't then pass it along to others, though if you've already paid Amazon for the work it might well breach the terms of a licensing contract that you "agreed to" by virtue of not realizing it existed.
posted by flabdablet at 11:14 AM on February 16 [4 favorites]
Hoopla is a poor replacement for Kindle ebooks; if you would like to look at text on a glowing monitor, it's great
Nothing preventing Hoopla installs on an e-ink Android reader (although some are not sufficiently "Android" and some do not auto-include Google Play for one-click installs). I have seen some problems where the Hoopla app sometimes does not recog if there are hardware buttons, for page turns. Usually you can fix this in settings.
posted by meehawl at 11:23 AM on February 16
Nothing preventing Hoopla installs on an e-ink Android reader (although some are not sufficiently "Android" and some do not auto-include Google Play for one-click installs). I have seen some problems where the Hoopla app sometimes does not recog if there are hardware buttons, for page turns. Usually you can fix this in settings.
posted by meehawl at 11:23 AM on February 16
FWIW I*do* have an ol-timey paperwhite that I *did* just do the "transfer via USB" thing for, and those files (mostly azw3's) haven't yet yielded to Calibre's attempts to deDRM them. I'm going to have a look over the "State of the Art" link from Lemkin, above, https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361503 to see if it gives any satisfaction, though.
Meanwhile I just downloaded 544 books (presumably all encrypted) one by one to have a go at them at some point.
posted by aesop at 11:31 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile I just downloaded 544 books (presumably all encrypted) one by one to have a go at them at some point.
posted by aesop at 11:31 AM on February 16 [3 favorites]
it counts as defeating a technical protection measure, a move that the DMCA makes illegal in the US
Signed into law with pleasure by your friend and mine, Bill Clinton.
Of course, if you're going to be branded a criminal anyway, you might as well pay Miss Anna a visit.
posted by Lemkin at 11:33 AM on February 16 [1 favorite]
Signed into law with pleasure by your friend and mine, Bill Clinton.
Of course, if you're going to be branded a criminal anyway, you might as well pay Miss Anna a visit.
posted by Lemkin at 11:33 AM on February 16 [1 favorite]
To my recollection, I have purchased 0 e-books through amazon. I have borrowed a number via the library, and converted a few oreily safari books into epub for viewing on kindle, but the vast majority of my use is just journal articles and long form blog posts. And even then, the experience is kind of crap for PDFs. Would be swell if ACM / IEEE supported ebook formats directly, as the standard 2 column PDF on kindle experience sucks.
posted by pwnguin at 11:39 AM on February 16 [1 favorite]
posted by pwnguin at 11:39 AM on February 16 [1 favorite]
bookshop.org is now selling ebooks also. Unfortunately, they cannot be read on Kindle. But ... fuck Kindle.
posted by Novus at 11:46 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
posted by Novus at 11:46 AM on February 16 [2 favorites]
Backing up the books you haven't read so you can continue not reading them on another device.
posted by betweenthebars at 11:48 AM on February 16 [13 favorites]
posted by betweenthebars at 11:48 AM on February 16 [13 favorites]
Updating to say I've now had some progress withCalibre and DeDRM. - You have to enter in the serial number of your e-ink kindle as one of the settings for the plugin - this allows the decryption to go ahead for books you have purchased since the serial number of your kindle is linked to your account and hence your purchases. Obvious if you know, not so much if you don't. I looked at several walkthroughs and either didn't notice that step or it wasn't included. Still no progress on the .kfx files, but for me the vast majority are azw3's or azw's.
posted by aesop at 12:00 PM on February 16 [8 favorites]
posted by aesop at 12:00 PM on February 16 [8 favorites]
@Novus , I bought my first ebook from bookshop.org the other day and am not vastly thrilled to be reading it only on their app, tbh. Time to look around to see if I can get that file out, too.
posted by aesop at 12:02 PM on February 16
posted by aesop at 12:02 PM on February 16
If you think nothing will change, consider the political climate. I'd say that book burnings are more likely in the next four years than at any time in the past forty, and of course they'd be cloud-based. I wouldn't be surprised to find people in a few years time complaining ineffectually: "I'd like to quit Kindle and its censorship but that would mean losing access to the ebooks I still have!"
posted by swr at 12:02 PM on February 16 [4 favorites]
posted by swr at 12:02 PM on February 16 [4 favorites]
I came this close to buying a Kindle and going to the Bezos Dark Side when my daughter got into Amazon books in a major way and was pretty vocal about the amount of free and low-price books she could get. But I'm glad I resisted and remain a happy library supporter and pirate.
I mostly don't care if I 'own' books. I just want to be able to reread them. Realistically, how often do you reread a book? Two, three, or four times in your lifetime? If more, you probably ought to buy a physical copy. If you just don't have room--heck, with the way things are going, many of us might be living in our cars--then I can kinda see wanting to own a digital copy. But there's a digital place I store many of the books I love, and that place is called the library.
Overdrive FTW and support your local libraries.
The whole cost of books thing is such a suck. With the digitalization of books. there's no reason that the writer shouldn't get the majority of money of the cost of a book. Much of that is why I refused to go to Amazon. Libraries aren't going to make authors rich, but at least the money doesn't go into the pockets of assholes.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:07 PM on February 16 [5 favorites]
I mostly don't care if I 'own' books. I just want to be able to reread them. Realistically, how often do you reread a book? Two, three, or four times in your lifetime? If more, you probably ought to buy a physical copy. If you just don't have room--heck, with the way things are going, many of us might be living in our cars--then I can kinda see wanting to own a digital copy. But there's a digital place I store many of the books I love, and that place is called the library.
Overdrive FTW and support your local libraries.
The whole cost of books thing is such a suck. With the digitalization of books. there's no reason that the writer shouldn't get the majority of money of the cost of a book. Much of that is why I refused to go to Amazon. Libraries aren't going to make authors rich, but at least the money doesn't go into the pockets of assholes.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:07 PM on February 16 [5 favorites]
@Bluehorse I second the intent behind your comment about supporting public libraries warmly and wholeheartedly. I'd also point out though, that Overdrive are owned by some terribly rapacious people, which is at the least cause for watchful concern - https://karawynn.substack.com/p/the-coming-enshittification-of-public-libraries (previously). (Overdrive also == Libby if anyone was unaware.). TBH they haven't been really awful yet. But that's a big "yet".
Folks also cite Hoopla frequently as a good way to use libraries electronically, but it's worth bearing in mind that Hoopla is pay-to-play for every use a title sees (and hence is a bit precarious for libraries to sustain usage, and does not allow for the library to build a collection over time - it just turns the "renting" over to a public institution rather than an individual.) Hoopla is a good user experience though inasmuch as if they have the title at all, you won't be waiting for a library's licenced copy to become available; there's no waiting in a hold queue. They also have a lot of cleaning-up-AI-produced-rubbish to do in their offering, but I think they have some decent intentions in that direction, at least.
posted by aesop at 12:24 PM on February 16 [3 favorites]
Folks also cite Hoopla frequently as a good way to use libraries electronically, but it's worth bearing in mind that Hoopla is pay-to-play for every use a title sees (and hence is a bit precarious for libraries to sustain usage, and does not allow for the library to build a collection over time - it just turns the "renting" over to a public institution rather than an individual.) Hoopla is a good user experience though inasmuch as if they have the title at all, you won't be waiting for a library's licenced copy to become available; there's no waiting in a hold queue. They also have a lot of cleaning-up-AI-produced-rubbish to do in their offering, but I think they have some decent intentions in that direction, at least.
posted by aesop at 12:24 PM on February 16 [3 favorites]
Overdrive. Rent ‘em from de libary.
Not so fun fact: Overdrive was recently purchased by private equity behemoth KKR. They also bought the library streaming service Kanopy.
Another billionaire gatekeeper.
posted by chromecow at 12:29 PM on February 16 [17 favorites]
Not so fun fact: Overdrive was recently purchased by private equity behemoth KKR. They also bought the library streaming service Kanopy.
Another billionaire gatekeeper.
posted by chromecow at 12:29 PM on February 16 [17 favorites]
Aesop, chromecow, thank you for the information on Overdrive. I don't know how I missed the Metafilter posts, other than being ill and not being able to focus on anything heavy during that timeframe. Dammit! Is there anything that can't be foggered up by capitalism?
posted by BlueHorse at 12:34 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
posted by BlueHorse at 12:34 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
Nothing preventing Hoopla installs on an e-ink Android reader (although some are not sufficiently "Android" and some do not auto-include Google Play for one-click installs). I have seen some problems where the Hoopla app sometimes does not recog if there are hardware buttons, for page turns. Usually you can fix this in settings.
Have you done this? Can you tell me what e-ink reader you're using? I'd be thrilled to get one if this worked.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:37 PM on February 16
Have you done this? Can you tell me what e-ink reader you're using? I'd be thrilled to get one if this worked.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:37 PM on February 16
yeah no. I have books (dead tree owned in my house) that I have re-read until they fall apart. If I had the time and the space I would own many more books in hardcopy, but these days I mostly rely on library e-books (Libby) and the occasional e-book purchase from the evil mega-corp. (it's the absolute only thing I buy from them, which strikes me as kinda funny these days. I guess I'll try bookshop.org and see how that goes.)
posted by supermedusa at 12:37 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 12:37 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
Do not rely on libraries to always be there. They have powerful enemies.
posted by Lemkin at 12:49 PM on February 16 [14 favorites]
posted by Lemkin at 12:49 PM on February 16 [14 favorites]
Kobo e-readers have been around for 15 years, offering cutting-edge features like EPUB support.
I have both a Kindle Paperwhite and a Kobo Glow. Physically they are almost identical. I left the Kobo in a drawer and forgot about it for a year or so. Just about a month ago, I came across it again and started using it and wow is the software so much better than a Kindle. You have more choices for fonts, for the page turning layout, for the freakin' current page status! It's all better on a Kobo, hands down.
Screw Jeff Bezos forever, don't buy another Kindle, and don't support Amazon.
posted by zardoz at 12:55 PM on February 16 [5 favorites]
I have both a Kindle Paperwhite and a Kobo Glow. Physically they are almost identical. I left the Kobo in a drawer and forgot about it for a year or so. Just about a month ago, I came across it again and started using it and wow is the software so much better than a Kindle. You have more choices for fonts, for the page turning layout, for the freakin' current page status! It's all better on a Kobo, hands down.
Screw Jeff Bezos forever, don't buy another Kindle, and don't support Amazon.
posted by zardoz at 12:55 PM on February 16 [5 favorites]
For one thing, its link to the “Send to Kindle Windows” app it tells me to use is dead.
Oof, my bad. I assumed my own apple-based experience, which has been seamless (though whether that's about apple or about my particular use case, I can't say), was universal. Maybe someday I will grow out of this kind of foolishness.
posted by Well I never at 1:07 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
Oof, my bad. I assumed my own apple-based experience, which has been seamless (though whether that's about apple or about my particular use case, I can't say), was universal. Maybe someday I will grow out of this kind of foolishness.
posted by Well I never at 1:07 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
If anyone is having trouble converting to Calibre, you can try an older version of Kindle for Windows desktop. I still have 2.3.5 (I keep the installer around, but you can find copies on the web), and was able to download a book and convert it successfully with the latest version of Calibre and the KFX plugin.
posted by tavella at 1:09 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 1:09 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
To clarify, by 'download a book' I mean just syncing it and then pulling the azw file out of My Kindle Content.
posted by tavella at 1:12 PM on February 16
posted by tavella at 1:12 PM on February 16
Ok I have a kindle, I love it, what can I do to not buy amazon books on it, what’s the best replacement that’s not physical books
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 1:33 PM on February 16
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 1:33 PM on February 16
We're about to work on this on the fruit-based ecosystem side. Wish us luck!
posted by gentlyepigrams at 1:39 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
posted by gentlyepigrams at 1:39 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
There is a kind of soft ableism taking place in this thread. The jokes about "make it smaller by holding it farther away" gave me a little pang, but that was somewhat soothed by people taking it into "tilt if for italic" and "too much acid and you get dingbats" territory.
But people just straightforwardly saying things like, "If you're going to read it that many times, you might just as well own the print book," for instance, are statements that ignore diverse realities. I have a lot of friends and acquaintances who are blind or partially sighted. I myself have a chronic headache and am living with a long-term disease, both of which make me extremely sensitive to light. For instance, today I live in an apartment whose windows are completely north-facing, and it is a purely gray Michigan day, but when I cracked my blinds a bit ago, it was nonetheless too bright for me and I had to close them again.
Reading print books can be difficult for me because the light I need to turn on to read them can be very painful. I do better with either my kindle itself or the kindle app on my phone, which allows me to adjust settings so that I'm not looking at a pure-white background (there's a pale green option in the app I like a lot) and I can adjust the font size easily depending on how my wonky eyes are working that day. I'm a scholar, and some of the books I need are too old to be available as ebooks or audiobooks (I can listen when I don't have the capacity to read words easily), and every now and then one of them arrives from the library, or I buy a used copy, and I take one look at the pages and think, "Fuck no, I'm not going to be able to read this." (Some academic presses use a pretty small font, tightly leaded, presumably for the economics of it, and those can just be impossible for me.)
And I have plenty of friends who can't read a print book at all.
I've been moving away from Amazon as well; although I am disabled and rely on delivery for a lot of things, I gave up Prime recently to encourage me to use other shopping options. For instance, I'm buying a new printer this week, and I'm getting it from the local big-box electronics stores, and a teenager of my acquaintance who has a driver's license is going to fetch it for me. I'm excited about being able to get ebooks from Bookshop, even though they use a proprietary reader (or, if not proprietary, not kindle-compatible) because I don't get out to the bookstore much but love this amazing cropping up of interesting independent book stores in my small city, and I like being able to choose one of them to get a bit of my money.
At the same time, I've failed to leave the Amazon zone for both ebooks and audiobooks. My go-to strategy for finding the books I want and need is:
1. Library, ebook or audiobook via Hoopla or Libby. Hoopla is a significantly inferior reading experience, and limits me to 8 checkouts a month and a very low number of holds, so I prefer Libby, but I do what I can.
2. Physical book via the library system. I don't know how it is in other places, but here in Michigan we have a fantastic statewide library catalog that lets me get books delivered to my local branch from libraries all over the state, including a lot of academic libraries. Most of my stuff can be gotten this way, though some of the more niche stuff and older stuff can't be—looking for that one guy' semi-academic book, published by a long-defunct gay press, about Walt Whitman's lovers during the Civil War? Good luck. Right now you can find a handful of used copies for sale for about $90 each. WorldCat shows no holdings. So this one's a bust.
3. Buy a used copy of the print book.
4. Buy a new copy, if necessary.
I've looked at Bookshop's ebook selection, and they don't have any of the things currently on my to-be-read list. I've tried libro.fm, which a lot of my friends use and love, but it had almost nothing from my Audible wish list. I may reach a point where I decide to pay for libro.fm, and use it for anything it does have, but I'm too straitened right now to pay a second monthly fee.
I would give a lot for ebooks to be subject to the ability to sell used copies on to others. I get why that's non-trivial, though if they're all locked down so well, surely the "license" could transfer? It's frustrating to want to recommend a book and not be able to just hand it to a friend, but know that they'll have to pay for it, and it's frustrating, too not to be able to pass on a book that wasn't right for me to someone for whom it might be right. And the lack of a secondary market for used ebooks is rough on me; I'd like to be able to do the same thing I do with physical books, buying used copies and thereby saving my money.
I'd love to make a break from Amazon. The reality is that, right now, there's nothing else that meets my needs. Hopefully that will change; I'll keep checking.
I hope everybody figures out what they need to figure out about downloading and keeping their books. Not being able to download them outside the kindle ecosystem is, actually, bullshit. I'm not going to try to download everything I have, but it's something I'll think about in the future for specific books I suspect I'll want to be sure to be able to keep my access to. And I may do a quick review of the books I already own, to see if there are any specific ones I want to do this with while I can.
posted by Well I never at 1:42 PM on February 16 [24 favorites]
But people just straightforwardly saying things like, "If you're going to read it that many times, you might just as well own the print book," for instance, are statements that ignore diverse realities. I have a lot of friends and acquaintances who are blind or partially sighted. I myself have a chronic headache and am living with a long-term disease, both of which make me extremely sensitive to light. For instance, today I live in an apartment whose windows are completely north-facing, and it is a purely gray Michigan day, but when I cracked my blinds a bit ago, it was nonetheless too bright for me and I had to close them again.
Reading print books can be difficult for me because the light I need to turn on to read them can be very painful. I do better with either my kindle itself or the kindle app on my phone, which allows me to adjust settings so that I'm not looking at a pure-white background (there's a pale green option in the app I like a lot) and I can adjust the font size easily depending on how my wonky eyes are working that day. I'm a scholar, and some of the books I need are too old to be available as ebooks or audiobooks (I can listen when I don't have the capacity to read words easily), and every now and then one of them arrives from the library, or I buy a used copy, and I take one look at the pages and think, "Fuck no, I'm not going to be able to read this." (Some academic presses use a pretty small font, tightly leaded, presumably for the economics of it, and those can just be impossible for me.)
And I have plenty of friends who can't read a print book at all.
I've been moving away from Amazon as well; although I am disabled and rely on delivery for a lot of things, I gave up Prime recently to encourage me to use other shopping options. For instance, I'm buying a new printer this week, and I'm getting it from the local big-box electronics stores, and a teenager of my acquaintance who has a driver's license is going to fetch it for me. I'm excited about being able to get ebooks from Bookshop, even though they use a proprietary reader (or, if not proprietary, not kindle-compatible) because I don't get out to the bookstore much but love this amazing cropping up of interesting independent book stores in my small city, and I like being able to choose one of them to get a bit of my money.
At the same time, I've failed to leave the Amazon zone for both ebooks and audiobooks. My go-to strategy for finding the books I want and need is:
1. Library, ebook or audiobook via Hoopla or Libby. Hoopla is a significantly inferior reading experience, and limits me to 8 checkouts a month and a very low number of holds, so I prefer Libby, but I do what I can.
2. Physical book via the library system. I don't know how it is in other places, but here in Michigan we have a fantastic statewide library catalog that lets me get books delivered to my local branch from libraries all over the state, including a lot of academic libraries. Most of my stuff can be gotten this way, though some of the more niche stuff and older stuff can't be—looking for that one guy' semi-academic book, published by a long-defunct gay press, about Walt Whitman's lovers during the Civil War? Good luck. Right now you can find a handful of used copies for sale for about $90 each. WorldCat shows no holdings. So this one's a bust.
3. Buy a used copy of the print book.
4. Buy a new copy, if necessary.
I've looked at Bookshop's ebook selection, and they don't have any of the things currently on my to-be-read list. I've tried libro.fm, which a lot of my friends use and love, but it had almost nothing from my Audible wish list. I may reach a point where I decide to pay for libro.fm, and use it for anything it does have, but I'm too straitened right now to pay a second monthly fee.
I would give a lot for ebooks to be subject to the ability to sell used copies on to others. I get why that's non-trivial, though if they're all locked down so well, surely the "license" could transfer? It's frustrating to want to recommend a book and not be able to just hand it to a friend, but know that they'll have to pay for it, and it's frustrating, too not to be able to pass on a book that wasn't right for me to someone for whom it might be right. And the lack of a secondary market for used ebooks is rough on me; I'd like to be able to do the same thing I do with physical books, buying used copies and thereby saving my money.
I'd love to make a break from Amazon. The reality is that, right now, there's nothing else that meets my needs. Hopefully that will change; I'll keep checking.
I hope everybody figures out what they need to figure out about downloading and keeping their books. Not being able to download them outside the kindle ecosystem is, actually, bullshit. I'm not going to try to download everything I have, but it's something I'll think about in the future for specific books I suspect I'll want to be sure to be able to keep my access to. And I may do a quick review of the books I already own, to see if there are any specific ones I want to do this with while I can.
posted by Well I never at 1:42 PM on February 16 [24 favorites]
Have you done this? Can you tell me what e-ink reader you're using? I'd be thrilled to get one if this worked.
Hoopla works on my Boox Palma, but some settings had to be adjusted before the app would download anything. I had some trouble with the Kobo app at first too, but both of them work fine now. Bookshop.org's app is still pretty unstable for me, but I hope it's just that the app is new.
This is my first non-Kindle e-ink device, so I can't speak to any of the others, but it's been great so far. I loved my Kindle, but it's so nice to not be stuck buying books from Amazon.
posted by Akhu at 1:50 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
Hoopla works on my Boox Palma, but some settings had to be adjusted before the app would download anything. I had some trouble with the Kobo app at first too, but both of them work fine now. Bookshop.org's app is still pretty unstable for me, but I hope it's just that the app is new.
This is my first non-Kindle e-ink device, so I can't speak to any of the others, but it's been great so far. I loved my Kindle, but it's so nice to not be stuck buying books from Amazon.
posted by Akhu at 1:50 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
Most of Amazon's Kindle customers aren't even thinking about it, aren't even aware of it. MetaFilter is a really skewed sample.
I think it's funny that because of this change, way more people are now aware that downloading and stripping DRM from their Kindle books is even an option.
posted by rhiannonstone at 2:03 PM on February 16 [3 favorites]
I think it's funny that because of this change, way more people are now aware that downloading and stripping DRM from their Kindle books is even an option.
posted by rhiannonstone at 2:03 PM on February 16 [3 favorites]
Alternately, just download unlicensed copies from Anna's Archive or Z-Library when you need them.
But where do all those "unlicensed" ebooks come from? People buy ebooks from Amazon, download them off their Kindles, and upload them to the sites you mentioned. This big change is going to hurt the availability of new books there. The reason they have so many choices is that, up until now, it's been easy to transfer everything on your Kindle to pirate sites. It's the same reason there were so many songs on Napster -- ripping CDs to MP3s was already something that everyone was doing.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 2:16 PM on February 16
But where do all those "unlicensed" ebooks come from? People buy ebooks from Amazon, download them off their Kindles, and upload them to the sites you mentioned. This big change is going to hurt the availability of new books there. The reason they have so many choices is that, up until now, it's been easy to transfer everything on your Kindle to pirate sites. It's the same reason there were so many songs on Napster -- ripping CDs to MP3s was already something that everyone was doing.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 2:16 PM on February 16
Realistically, how often do you reread a book? Two, three, or four times in your lifetime?
HAHAHAHAHOHOHEEHEEHEEHEE
I reread all of the Laura Ingalls Wilder books at least once a year.
posted by Melismata at 2:23 PM on February 16 [15 favorites]
HAHAHAHAHOHOHEEHEEHEEHEE
I reread all of the Laura Ingalls Wilder books at least once a year.
posted by Melismata at 2:23 PM on February 16 [15 favorites]
The other day OnceUponATime mentioned a book that looked really interesting, and as I hovered over the 'add to wishlist' button, I felt like the text around the price of the book had changed from what I was used to. Sure enough, I just went back to it: 'By placing your order, you're purchasing a license to the content and you agree to the Kindle Store Terms of Use.'
Did it always say that bit about purchasing a license? Like, I know that was always the case...but did they always spell it out like that?
posted by mittens at 2:47 PM on February 16
Did it always say that bit about purchasing a license? Like, I know that was always the case...but did they always spell it out like that?
posted by mittens at 2:47 PM on February 16
There've been some questions about different ebook reading devices, and also about different options for buying books and about what Amazon's latest changes mean. I started writing about this here and it got super long, so if you're not interested you should seriously skip* this comment, which is going to be what I know about alternative devices (not apps) to the kindle. I'm posting it in case it's useful to someone despite the length.
* on desktop, you can skip down by typing 'j'!
So, as far as hardware brands/companies go: there's Kindle (I'm talking about the eink readers, not the Fire tablets), Kobo (also sold as Tolino in some European countries), Pocketbook (not as widely known in the US as in Europe but it's been around forever and apparently makes good stuff), Onyx Boox (also been around forever), Meebook, Hisense, and various others that I know less about.
(There's also the Barnes and Noble nook, but I'm not saying much about it because B&N's ebooks are apparently super locked down and also as far as I know the nook isn't too great these days, hardware and software-wise.)
Kindles, Kobos, and Pocketbooks are all dedicated ebook readers, all running their own operating systems that are built on top of linux. Boox, meebook, hisense, and others make Android devices, which you can use like any Android tablet, with the understanding that an eink screen works great for text but not so great for other things. The Android eink tablets usually come bundled with the maker's own ebook app, but you can install any other Android ebook apps as well (including the kindle app, as someone mentioned above).
There are also companies like Remarkable and Supernote that make eink tablets geared towards people who want to markup PDFs and/or write by hand with a stylus. (The previously mentioned brands all have big-screen models like this too, but I think these two have a strong following specifically for writing and less so for reading.)
As well as models with giant screens, there are also ones with smartphone form factors, like the boox palma. In fact, hisense actually makes eink smartphones.
Kindles are the best-known model by far in the US, and they were very much pioneers early on, but it's worth mentioning that most modern features were implemented - and implemented well - by other companies first. For example, kobo, boox, nook, and I think pocketbook all had frontlit screens, and then frontlit screens with adjustable color temperature, a generation or two before kindles did. Amazon was also fairly late to the game with color screens.
I only have personal experience with kindles and kobo readers. In case anyone's interested, here's a lengthy comparison between the two!
In terms of hardware they're both great. They both have a range of different models at different price points with different hardware features. One thing kobo has right now with no current kindle equivalent is a few models with physical buttons. (Using the buttons is optional - the screens are still touchscreens - but very nice for a lot of people.)
One hardware difference in the current models is that kobo apparently has bluetooth, which lets you connect (some?) bluetooth page turners/scrollers/keyboards and turn pages that way - with your hands far away, say, or under the covers. You can also turn pages remotely with kindles, but that involves this kind of page turning device that covers part of the screen and can only flip pages in a single direction.
In terms of software, each has some nice features that the other doesn't. For one example, the kindle's software currently makes it very easy to switch dark mode on and off, and dark mode applies to the whole UI, not just the background of the book you're reading. Kobo doesn't have that (with the stock firmware), but it has super nice features like being able to adjust the screen brightness just by swiping up and down the side of the screen (I don't understand how Amazon hasn't implemented this, the absence on the kindle is glaring) and being able to switch between current books that you're reading with just a swipe.
Both Amazon and Rakuten (which owns kobo) use the devices to sell you ebooks from their proprietary stores, but on kobo it's easier to set things up so that you pretty much never have to see or interact with their store, while the kindle UI is very aggressive about trying to sell you something.
In the US, both work with overdrive/libby. In the US, kindles are better at connecting to multiple libraries; kobo is more simple to set up with just a single library. However, outside of the US only kobo can connect to overdrive libraries. Also, I believe kobo lets you download overdrive books directly from the device, while (I think) with kindles you have to use your phone/tablet/computer.
Both companies try to force you to register your device. If you're the type of person who doesn't want to do that (personally, I'm not sure why my reading should be any company's business): I got around registering the kindle, but every time I reboot it or accidentally tap on some feature it will tell me that I've got to register. I got around registering on the kobo too (there's an easy workaround, at least on current models) and it never nags me about it.
You can run both devices without connecting to wifi if you don't want to (as long as you don't use features that require it, like buying books from the device). However, apparently if you keep a kindle on wifi for "too long" and then reconnect, there's a good chance it will erase any books you loaded onto it yourself (that you didn't buy from the Amazon store). It's not clear how long is "too long".
Kobo devices can be connected to a computer via USB and show up like any other USB drive. This is also true for older kindles - but not for the latest models! Amazon has switched to using MTP now, which if I have time I'll explain in a different comment. The tl;dr is that it's not a great sign for the future as far as Amazon letting you move books onto and off a kindle, but it doesn't currently make it impossible.
Current kindles and all kobo models (as far as I know) let you add your own fonts to the device. Among other things, that increases support for languages with different writing systems. On kobo, sometimes you'll run into books in such languages displaying fine in reading mode, but their title and metadata won't display properly in the library. (I think there's a fix but I never bothered figuring it out because I just use koreader - see below.) I haven't tried yet on kindles so not sure what the situation is there. Kobo has more font adjustment options than kindles do (you can set font weight and so forth). Koreader - more on this below - has more font and layout options than either of them.
I think kobo has better support than kindles for defining your own collections, series, and other types of metadata using calibre. I've never bothered with that so I can't speak from experience.
Kindles can (currently, this is not always the case and Amazon keeps plugging the loopholes that make it possible) be jailbroken, and after you jailbreak them you can install third-party open-source software like koreader (a totally separate ebook reading app) and various mods. (For example, want to have your own custom screensavers? There's a mod for that. But only if you can jailbreak.)
Kobo doesn't need to be jailbroken. It's relatively open in that it lets you just go ahead and easily install koreader and a whole bunch of mods (it plays very nicely with calibre, too). Some of those mods make up for things the stock firmware is missing compared to kindle - for example turning dark mode on and off more easily, and having it apply to the entire UI.
What's koreader? KOReader is the best ebook reading software I've used, with the worst UI. It works on every eink reader I'm aware of (but for kindles, only if they can be jailbroken) as well as android and linux. It doesn't run on iOS, unfortunately. I personally love messing around with linux UIs from the '80s and text file configurations and stuff like that, and even I saw the koreader UI for the first time and thought "life's too short." But eventually I gave in and took a day to figure it out and customize it and you know what, it's amazing. It has every feature you can imagine, and insane customizability. Part of which is letting you set up gesture shortcuts for almost anything. I can change screen brightness and color temperature with a swipe, toggle dark mode with a swipe, refresh with a swipe, check the vocab list with a swipe, whatever I want. Multilingual support is excellent. You can install as many dictionaries as you want, translate whole blocks of text, get reading stats, get RSS feeds, and a million other features I've never tried. If your ebook isn't well formatted and, say, isn't broken up well into chapters, it can re-analyze the file for you and create its own table of contents and progress bar with chapters. Just tons of really nice and useful stuff. It also does a decent, though not perfect, job of cropping PDFs on the fly to make them work better on small screens, reflowing PDFs, and so on.
Kindle and kobo's stock firmware lets you annotate and highlight books, as well as download those annotations and highlights. So does koreader (unsurprisingly, since it's all about being open and not locking things down.)
If you buy books from Amazon, one of the selling points is being able to sync them between different kindle devices and apps, so you can switch seamlessly between them. I believe that works not just for books bought from the Amazon store, but also for third-party books - but only if you email them to the kindle, and not if you copy them to the kindle over USB. (And yes, you can also email files to a kindle. If they're not in a format the kindle supports, Amazon will convert them to such a format, which is how it "supports" epubs - it converts them.)
On kobo, you can sync between kobo devices and the kobo app, but only for books that you bought from the kobo store. There's no built-in option to email books to the device, although there's a random person who runs this service that lets you upload books to your device online. (Said service also works with kindles, and can also crop PDF margins for you.) You can easily transfer books onto a kobo via USB, but they won't sync by default. However! There are apparently two ways around this. One is to use koreader, which has its own syncing features and lets you either sync from whatever server you tell it, or use one that they've set up. (However, koreader doesn't run on iOS, so if you're wanting to sync third-party books between a kobo and your ipad you'll have to use a different method). The other way apparently takes a bit of setting up but you can make a kobo sync with Dropbox.
I'm sure there's a lot more I'm forgetting but that's just as well. The tl;dr is that there are lots of good, solid, extremely pleasant to use eink devices out there, and the two biggest brands in the US - kindle and kobo - are both very nice and each has some advantages over the other. Personally, at this point with all the crap that Amazon has been pulling - as a company in general, and with regards to locking down the kindle specifically - and especially if you like a device that doesn't constantly remind you that your job is to buy books from Amazon, I'd go with kobo. I was very, very pleasantly surprised by mine. I'd also recommend koreader for anyone with the patience to get over the hump of its insane menu system because it's amazing.
posted by trig at 3:20 PM on February 16 [30 favorites]
* on desktop, you can skip down by typing 'j'!
So, as far as hardware brands/companies go: there's Kindle (I'm talking about the eink readers, not the Fire tablets), Kobo (also sold as Tolino in some European countries), Pocketbook (not as widely known in the US as in Europe but it's been around forever and apparently makes good stuff), Onyx Boox (also been around forever), Meebook, Hisense, and various others that I know less about.
(There's also the Barnes and Noble nook, but I'm not saying much about it because B&N's ebooks are apparently super locked down and also as far as I know the nook isn't too great these days, hardware and software-wise.)
Kindles, Kobos, and Pocketbooks are all dedicated ebook readers, all running their own operating systems that are built on top of linux. Boox, meebook, hisense, and others make Android devices, which you can use like any Android tablet, with the understanding that an eink screen works great for text but not so great for other things. The Android eink tablets usually come bundled with the maker's own ebook app, but you can install any other Android ebook apps as well (including the kindle app, as someone mentioned above).
There are also companies like Remarkable and Supernote that make eink tablets geared towards people who want to markup PDFs and/or write by hand with a stylus. (The previously mentioned brands all have big-screen models like this too, but I think these two have a strong following specifically for writing and less so for reading.)
As well as models with giant screens, there are also ones with smartphone form factors, like the boox palma. In fact, hisense actually makes eink smartphones.
Kindles are the best-known model by far in the US, and they were very much pioneers early on, but it's worth mentioning that most modern features were implemented - and implemented well - by other companies first. For example, kobo, boox, nook, and I think pocketbook all had frontlit screens, and then frontlit screens with adjustable color temperature, a generation or two before kindles did. Amazon was also fairly late to the game with color screens.
I only have personal experience with kindles and kobo readers. In case anyone's interested, here's a lengthy comparison between the two!
In terms of hardware they're both great. They both have a range of different models at different price points with different hardware features. One thing kobo has right now with no current kindle equivalent is a few models with physical buttons. (Using the buttons is optional - the screens are still touchscreens - but very nice for a lot of people.)
One hardware difference in the current models is that kobo apparently has bluetooth, which lets you connect (some?) bluetooth page turners/scrollers/keyboards and turn pages that way - with your hands far away, say, or under the covers. You can also turn pages remotely with kindles, but that involves this kind of page turning device that covers part of the screen and can only flip pages in a single direction.
In terms of software, each has some nice features that the other doesn't. For one example, the kindle's software currently makes it very easy to switch dark mode on and off, and dark mode applies to the whole UI, not just the background of the book you're reading. Kobo doesn't have that (with the stock firmware), but it has super nice features like being able to adjust the screen brightness just by swiping up and down the side of the screen (I don't understand how Amazon hasn't implemented this, the absence on the kindle is glaring) and being able to switch between current books that you're reading with just a swipe.
Both Amazon and Rakuten (which owns kobo) use the devices to sell you ebooks from their proprietary stores, but on kobo it's easier to set things up so that you pretty much never have to see or interact with their store, while the kindle UI is very aggressive about trying to sell you something.
In the US, both work with overdrive/libby. In the US, kindles are better at connecting to multiple libraries; kobo is more simple to set up with just a single library. However, outside of the US only kobo can connect to overdrive libraries. Also, I believe kobo lets you download overdrive books directly from the device, while (I think) with kindles you have to use your phone/tablet/computer.
Both companies try to force you to register your device. If you're the type of person who doesn't want to do that (personally, I'm not sure why my reading should be any company's business): I got around registering the kindle, but every time I reboot it or accidentally tap on some feature it will tell me that I've got to register. I got around registering on the kobo too (there's an easy workaround, at least on current models) and it never nags me about it.
You can run both devices without connecting to wifi if you don't want to (as long as you don't use features that require it, like buying books from the device). However, apparently if you keep a kindle on wifi for "too long" and then reconnect, there's a good chance it will erase any books you loaded onto it yourself (that you didn't buy from the Amazon store). It's not clear how long is "too long".
Kobo devices can be connected to a computer via USB and show up like any other USB drive. This is also true for older kindles - but not for the latest models! Amazon has switched to using MTP now, which if I have time I'll explain in a different comment. The tl;dr is that it's not a great sign for the future as far as Amazon letting you move books onto and off a kindle, but it doesn't currently make it impossible.
Current kindles and all kobo models (as far as I know) let you add your own fonts to the device. Among other things, that increases support for languages with different writing systems. On kobo, sometimes you'll run into books in such languages displaying fine in reading mode, but their title and metadata won't display properly in the library. (I think there's a fix but I never bothered figuring it out because I just use koreader - see below.) I haven't tried yet on kindles so not sure what the situation is there. Kobo has more font adjustment options than kindles do (you can set font weight and so forth). Koreader - more on this below - has more font and layout options than either of them.
I think kobo has better support than kindles for defining your own collections, series, and other types of metadata using calibre. I've never bothered with that so I can't speak from experience.
Kindles can (currently, this is not always the case and Amazon keeps plugging the loopholes that make it possible) be jailbroken, and after you jailbreak them you can install third-party open-source software like koreader (a totally separate ebook reading app) and various mods. (For example, want to have your own custom screensavers? There's a mod for that. But only if you can jailbreak.)
Kobo doesn't need to be jailbroken. It's relatively open in that it lets you just go ahead and easily install koreader and a whole bunch of mods (it plays very nicely with calibre, too). Some of those mods make up for things the stock firmware is missing compared to kindle - for example turning dark mode on and off more easily, and having it apply to the entire UI.
What's koreader? KOReader is the best ebook reading software I've used, with the worst UI. It works on every eink reader I'm aware of (but for kindles, only if they can be jailbroken) as well as android and linux. It doesn't run on iOS, unfortunately. I personally love messing around with linux UIs from the '80s and text file configurations and stuff like that, and even I saw the koreader UI for the first time and thought "life's too short." But eventually I gave in and took a day to figure it out and customize it and you know what, it's amazing. It has every feature you can imagine, and insane customizability. Part of which is letting you set up gesture shortcuts for almost anything. I can change screen brightness and color temperature with a swipe, toggle dark mode with a swipe, refresh with a swipe, check the vocab list with a swipe, whatever I want. Multilingual support is excellent. You can install as many dictionaries as you want, translate whole blocks of text, get reading stats, get RSS feeds, and a million other features I've never tried. If your ebook isn't well formatted and, say, isn't broken up well into chapters, it can re-analyze the file for you and create its own table of contents and progress bar with chapters. Just tons of really nice and useful stuff. It also does a decent, though not perfect, job of cropping PDFs on the fly to make them work better on small screens, reflowing PDFs, and so on.
Kindle and kobo's stock firmware lets you annotate and highlight books, as well as download those annotations and highlights. So does koreader (unsurprisingly, since it's all about being open and not locking things down.)
If you buy books from Amazon, one of the selling points is being able to sync them between different kindle devices and apps, so you can switch seamlessly between them. I believe that works not just for books bought from the Amazon store, but also for third-party books - but only if you email them to the kindle, and not if you copy them to the kindle over USB. (And yes, you can also email files to a kindle. If they're not in a format the kindle supports, Amazon will convert them to such a format, which is how it "supports" epubs - it converts them.)
On kobo, you can sync between kobo devices and the kobo app, but only for books that you bought from the kobo store. There's no built-in option to email books to the device, although there's a random person who runs this service that lets you upload books to your device online. (Said service also works with kindles, and can also crop PDF margins for you.) You can easily transfer books onto a kobo via USB, but they won't sync by default. However! There are apparently two ways around this. One is to use koreader, which has its own syncing features and lets you either sync from whatever server you tell it, or use one that they've set up. (However, koreader doesn't run on iOS, so if you're wanting to sync third-party books between a kobo and your ipad you'll have to use a different method). The other way apparently takes a bit of setting up but you can make a kobo sync with Dropbox.
I'm sure there's a lot more I'm forgetting but that's just as well. The tl;dr is that there are lots of good, solid, extremely pleasant to use eink devices out there, and the two biggest brands in the US - kindle and kobo - are both very nice and each has some advantages over the other. Personally, at this point with all the crap that Amazon has been pulling - as a company in general, and with regards to locking down the kindle specifically - and especially if you like a device that doesn't constantly remind you that your job is to buy books from Amazon, I'd go with kobo. I was very, very pleasantly surprised by mine. I'd also recommend koreader for anyone with the patience to get over the hump of its insane menu system because it's amazing.
posted by trig at 3:20 PM on February 16 [30 favorites]
...if I have time tomorrow I'll try to put together the (much shorter) bit that I know about what Amazon's changes mean, and also about ebook stores and formats and DRM and so on. For now, this question from the green has links to a lot of non-Amazon ebook stores.
posted by trig at 3:23 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
posted by trig at 3:23 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
Wrt Hoopla on e-ink readers: Can you tell me what e-ink reader you're using?
I have a Meebook. M7 I think. Hoopla installs straight from the Play Store - no sideloading needed. TBH I don't use it much and use Overdrive/Libby more for that sort of thing. I gather there are other options for Hoopla ereaders. Unfortunately, the popular Kobo readers do not support Hoopla installs.
posted by meehawl at 3:54 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
I have a Meebook. M7 I think. Hoopla installs straight from the Play Store - no sideloading needed. TBH I don't use it much and use Overdrive/Libby more for that sort of thing. I gather there are other options for Hoopla ereaders. Unfortunately, the popular Kobo readers do not support Hoopla installs.
posted by meehawl at 3:54 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
>>“Sure, if you want it smaller.”
>Oh, for larger, just hold the book a bit closer.
I'll just mention - since it might be vaguely relevant - that the vast majority of the population that needs a larger font also cannot focus closer. So "holding the book a bit closer" is literally an impossibility.
You'd think in a place like MeFi we'd be extremely interested in accessibility, even for groups that are only some very small percentage of the general population.
But the percentage that needs larger font to see well and cannot focus close is not small at all. It is something like (checks census web site) 30% of the population.
So as long as you're OK with saying a giant F*#% YOU to nearly 1/3 of the entire population - plus of course your future self, because if you're not in the 30% already you will be soon enough - then fine.
Please proceed full speed ahead.
posted by flug at 4:55 PM on February 16 [16 favorites]
>Oh, for larger, just hold the book a bit closer.
I'll just mention - since it might be vaguely relevant - that the vast majority of the population that needs a larger font also cannot focus closer. So "holding the book a bit closer" is literally an impossibility.
You'd think in a place like MeFi we'd be extremely interested in accessibility, even for groups that are only some very small percentage of the general population.
But the percentage that needs larger font to see well and cannot focus close is not small at all. It is something like (checks census web site) 30% of the population.
So as long as you're OK with saying a giant F*#% YOU to nearly 1/3 of the entire population - plus of course your future self, because if you're not in the 30% already you will be soon enough - then fine.
Please proceed full speed ahead.
posted by flug at 4:55 PM on February 16 [16 favorites]
In addition to font size, I like how ebooks are self illuminating. I read on an OLED screen with (very dim) white on black. The Kindle paperwhites are also very nicely readable in a dark room.
The issue is the fonts. Kindle on Android has some adequate reading fonts. But Boundless (Axis 360) has terrible fonts. One generic sans serif bland not particularly readable font. And OpenDyslexic, an actively bad font. Ebooks would be a good application of Atkinson Hyperlegible.
posted by Nelson at 5:06 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
The issue is the fonts. Kindle on Android has some adequate reading fonts. But Boundless (Axis 360) has terrible fonts. One generic sans serif bland not particularly readable font. And OpenDyslexic, an actively bad font. Ebooks would be a good application of Atkinson Hyperlegible.
posted by Nelson at 5:06 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
And OpenDyslexic, an actively bad font. Ebooks would be a good application of Atkinson Hyperlegible.
I don't know much about either of those fonts but fwiw kobo now has them both built in.
posted by trig at 5:21 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
I don't know much about either of those fonts but fwiw kobo now has them both built in.
posted by trig at 5:21 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
Someone else asked it upthread but I’ll ask again: what are the options for those of us with Kindles? I don’t want to use Amazon anymore but I also don’t want to trash 3 kindles less than a year old. Is jailbreaking a thing?
posted by shesdeadimalive at 6:03 PM on February 16
posted by shesdeadimalive at 6:03 PM on February 16
i will prob sell mine on mercari, where I bought it in the first place
posted by changeling at 7:36 PM on February 16
posted by changeling at 7:36 PM on February 16
I use the Kindle app on my iPad, and I keep it on my PC as well. On the PC, I download every single book once it is bought. I suppose there is DRM on each one. Eventually, I might have to jailbreak those books. There's always the iBooks app. Too bad it sucks ass. This is going to be a major inconvenience.
I prefer reading dead trees but there are so many instances where the iPad is more convenient, like late at night, or waiting somewhere.
I have several ebooks that are SFF. In the preface, it often states that the author or publisher chose not to use DRM. Are these titles safe from Bezos chicanery?
posted by Ber at 8:15 PM on February 16
I prefer reading dead trees but there are so many instances where the iPad is more convenient, like late at night, or waiting somewhere.
I have several ebooks that are SFF. In the preface, it often states that the author or publisher chose not to use DRM. Are these titles safe from Bezos chicanery?
posted by Ber at 8:15 PM on February 16
I have been actively removing DRM from Kindle ebooks since I knew it was possible to do so. I gave up on Kindle almost two years ago, and have been happily using a Kobo ever since. I loved the Kindle, as much as I have loved Amazon less and less. I’ll be forever grateful for them making the ereader platform mainstream, but their subsequent behavior has been awful.
posted by lhauser at 8:23 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
posted by lhauser at 8:23 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
The tread is long and I’m short on time, so apologies if someone already mentioned this tip:
The publisher almost always has a copy of the book for purchase as an e-book on their website. Look there first. You’ll still have a watermark, but you will have a copy of the book downloaded.
I like Yomu as a mobile reading app.
I’m leaving on Wednesday for a 45-day trip at sea where I’ll be almost entirely offline, so I’m glad I ditched kindle years ago.
posted by antinomia at 9:22 PM on February 16 [5 favorites]
The publisher almost always has a copy of the book for purchase as an e-book on their website. Look there first. You’ll still have a watermark, but you will have a copy of the book downloaded.
I like Yomu as a mobile reading app.
I’m leaving on Wednesday for a 45-day trip at sea where I’ll be almost entirely offline, so I’m glad I ditched kindle years ago.
posted by antinomia at 9:22 PM on February 16 [5 favorites]
Someone else asked it upthread but I’ll ask again: what are the options for those of us with Kindles?
I haven't bought Amazon ebooks in years. I get them mostly on Kobo - jailbreaking the DRM protected ones is trivial on Calibre - and email the epub files to my Kindle for convenience. They appear on the Kindle as documents, not books, so they should be unaffected by future book banning shenanigans, and it means I have a built in PC backup of each book in case something happens to Kobo. All the advantages of Kindle hardware - which is apparently a loss leader - and not a cent more to Bezos while taking advantage of the Amazon infrastructure for book transmission. (Incidentally, Kindle has supported epubs for years now, discontinuing mobi support in 2022.)
There's also a recent Ask all about where to buy non Amazon ebooks, with a non US focus (US answer seems to be Bookshop.org).
posted by I claim sanctuary at 9:58 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
I haven't bought Amazon ebooks in years. I get them mostly on Kobo - jailbreaking the DRM protected ones is trivial on Calibre - and email the epub files to my Kindle for convenience. They appear on the Kindle as documents, not books, so they should be unaffected by future book banning shenanigans, and it means I have a built in PC backup of each book in case something happens to Kobo. All the advantages of Kindle hardware - which is apparently a loss leader - and not a cent more to Bezos while taking advantage of the Amazon infrastructure for book transmission. (Incidentally, Kindle has supported epubs for years now, discontinuing mobi support in 2022.)
There's also a recent Ask all about where to buy non Amazon ebooks, with a non US focus (US answer seems to be Bookshop.org).
posted by I claim sanctuary at 9:58 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
So as long as you're OK with saying a giant F*#% YOU to nearly 1/3 of the entire population
To be fair, it would have to be a giant one or we wouldn't be able to read it.
posted by flabdablet at 7:19 AM on February 17 [18 favorites]
To be fair, it would have to be a giant one or we wouldn't be able to read it.
posted by flabdablet at 7:19 AM on February 17 [18 favorites]
Updating to say I've now had some progress withCalibre and DeDRM. - You have to enter in the serial number of your e-ink kindle as one of the settings for the plugin - this allows the decryption to go ahead for books you have purchased since the serial number of your kindle is linked to your account and hence your purchases. Obvious if you know, not so much if you don't. I looked at several walkthroughs and either didn't notice that step or it wasn't included.
This is one of those things where it’s not specified partly because the configuration depends on how you’re downloading the books, and partly because MobileRead’s site rules prohibit talking about it in detail, because they reasonably don’t want to get sued out of existence. After you’ve installed the plugins you can set (or confirm) your configuration in Calibre by going to Preferences -> Plugins -> File type -> DeDRM and clicking the "Customize plugin" button. The "Plugin help" link in the top right corner will open instructions in your browser. Between that help page and this guide to the various ways to download files you should be able to figure out what serial number or key you need.
posted by fedward at 8:55 AM on February 17 [2 favorites]
This is one of those things where it’s not specified partly because the configuration depends on how you’re downloading the books, and partly because MobileRead’s site rules prohibit talking about it in detail, because they reasonably don’t want to get sued out of existence. After you’ve installed the plugins you can set (or confirm) your configuration in Calibre by going to Preferences -> Plugins -> File type -> DeDRM and clicking the "Customize plugin" button. The "Plugin help" link in the top right corner will open instructions in your browser. Between that help page and this guide to the various ways to download files you should be able to figure out what serial number or key you need.
posted by fedward at 8:55 AM on February 17 [2 favorites]
Also, to summarize/clarify a detail from that guide, your options for downloading books depend on your Kindle model and your computer’s operating system. Method 1 is the one that’s going away, and only works if you have an e-ink Kindle released before 2024 registered on your account; Method 2 only works on Windows; Method 3 isn’t going away, but it will behave differently depending on the model of Kindle you have (2024 Kindles now require MTP for transfer instead of connecting as external drives, and the version of file you’ll get depends on the software your Kindle runs).
If you’re comfortable on the command line (and you have an eligible Kindle registered on your account as in Method 1) you can also use the bulk downloader linked above. It’s Python, and should work on any system with a recent Python version installed. I’ve seen reports that it will remove the DRM for you if configured properly, but I haven’t tried it.
posted by fedward at 9:27 AM on February 17
If you’re comfortable on the command line (and you have an eligible Kindle registered on your account as in Method 1) you can also use the bulk downloader linked above. It’s Python, and should work on any system with a recent Python version installed. I’ve seen reports that it will remove the DRM for you if configured properly, but I haven’t tried it.
posted by fedward at 9:27 AM on February 17
Hacker News: All Kindles can now be jailbroken.
posted by meehawl at 10:01 AM on February 17 [8 favorites]
posted by meehawl at 10:01 AM on February 17 [8 favorites]
I had a go on the bulk downloader Antecedent linked to, and it only went and worked, second time (the first time it gave me somen timeouts and then some lip about authentication errors).
This was on Linux, and although that's no comfort to non-Linux users do give it a try. The core technology is Selenium which is being used as a "headless browser" (a browser with no display, and whose input comes from another program instead of from keyboard/mouse) to poke at Amazon.
Selenium supports Windows and Mac and its necessary bits should be pulled down by Pip with the other Python requirements.
posted by BCMagee at 10:32 AM on February 17 [2 favorites]
This was on Linux, and although that's no comfort to non-Linux users do give it a try. The core technology is Selenium which is being used as a "headless browser" (a browser with no display, and whose input comes from another program instead of from keyboard/mouse) to poke at Amazon.
Selenium supports Windows and Mac and its necessary bits should be pulled down by Pip with the other Python requirements.
posted by BCMagee at 10:32 AM on February 17 [2 favorites]
Just an FYI Kobo's (at least from the Libra 2 Onwards, released in 2019), do support Dark Mode for reading, but not for all UI elements.
It works fine for ePub files, but can invert PDF's with pictures in a somewhat haphazard way.
posted by Faintdreams at 11:50 AM on February 17
It works fine for ePub files, but can invert PDF's with pictures in a somewhat haphazard way.
posted by Faintdreams at 11:50 AM on February 17
It's possible to run the script linked upthread (BulkKindleUSBDownloader) on Mac but you have to do a few things first to make it work. You will need some familiarity with the command line.
- If you're not already running Homebrew, the "missing package manager for macOS," install it with this command in Terminal:
/bin/bash -c "$(curl -fsSL https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/HEAD/install.sh)" - If you haven't already done so, install Python 3.
brew install python3 - If pipx is not already installed, install it.
brew install pipx - Install XQuartz. (This is required to get
xvfbinstalled, which is in turn required by the Python modulePyVirtualDisplay.)brew install xquartz - Create a
binfolder in your$HOMEfolder.mkdir "$HOME"/bin - Put X11 (XQuartz) and the
$HOME/binfolder in your$PATH.export PATH=$PATH:/opt/X11/bin:/$HOME/binWhen prompted for a password, enter your login password. - If you don't already have it installed, install Google Chrome. If already installed, make sure it's up-to-date (should be v133.0.6943.x).
- Download the corresponding version of chromedriver from here. If Chrome is up-to-date, look in the Stable section for the
chromedriverbinary URL for your platform. If not, you'll need to find the correct version (outside the scope of these instructions). Unzip the downloaded file and rename the unzipped folderchromedriver. - Move
chromedriverto the$HOME/binfolder and make it executable.mv "$HOME"/Downloads/chromedriver/chromedriver "$HOME"/bin/; chmod +x "$HOME"/bin/chromedriver - Open Finder to the
$HOME/binfolder.open "$HOME"/bin
Run - Download the ZIP file from the BulkKindleUSBDownloader Github page (using the green Code menu) and unzip it. Rename the unzipped folder
bulkkindle. - Create a folder for a temporary virtual environment (venv).
mkdir "$HOME"/booksvenv - Set up the venv and activate it.
python3 -m venv "$HOME"/booksvenv; source "$HOME"/booksvenv/bin/activate - Install BulkKindle's dependencies.
python3 -m pip install -r "$HOME"/Downloads/bulkkindle/requirements.txt - Run BulkKindle. Note, when prompted for your Amazon OATH, it's asking for the one-time password you would enter when accessing Amazon from a new device/browser. If you don't have this set up on your account, just hit Enter to bypass it.
cd "$HOME"/Downloads; "$HOME"/Downloads/bulkkindle/bookp.py --email YOURAMAZONEMAIL --verbose - Select the country for Amazon, then when prompted, select your device (listed from those on your account). At that point it should say it's downloading X books and start to list each one as it's downloaded into
$HOME/Downloads/books. - Once the script is done and you're satisfied you won't need it again, you can clean things up. If the
$HOME/binfolder already existed on your system, edit the line below to remove"$HOME"/bin"from therm -rfcommand (so it doesn't get deleted).deactivate; rm -rf "$HOME"/booksvenv "$HOME"/bin "$HOME"/Downloads/chromedriver "$HOME"/Downloads/bulkkindle
chromedriver once from Finder by right-clicking on it and choosing Open. When prompted, allow it to be opened. This will cause a new Terminal window to appear; press Control+C and then you can close this Terminal window.
I'm just popping in add another positive review for Kobo. I bought one years ago when I left the Amazon ecosystem. Ported my existing library with Calibre and didn't look back. No regrets.
posted by Leeway at 4:18 PM on February 17
posted by Leeway at 4:18 PM on February 17
You rock, tubedogg! That’s going to save me a lot of troubleshooting and time. Thank you.
posted by Songdog at 5:40 PM on February 17
posted by Songdog at 5:40 PM on February 17
Cory Doctorow's third Martin Hench novel Picks & Shovels is out today with no DRM on the ePub eBook. I bought it from bookshop.org, tried their iOS app and also did Send to Kindle for my e-ink reader.
Their app is OK, though it doesn't let you reduce the generous horizontal margins.
Send to Kindle worked, though it calls it a "Doc" not a "Book" and it lost the cover art. It also doesn't queue it for automatic download like a book you buy from Amazon. The text is all there with formatting intact. macOS Books also opened it just fine.
Doctorow's publisher wasn't too keen on skipping DRM the first few times he tried it, but they seem to have figured out that he's right & the doomsayers were wrong.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 6:50 AM on February 18 [1 favorite]
Their app is OK, though it doesn't let you reduce the generous horizontal margins.
Send to Kindle worked, though it calls it a "Doc" not a "Book" and it lost the cover art. It also doesn't queue it for automatic download like a book you buy from Amazon. The text is all there with formatting intact. macOS Books also opened it just fine.
Doctorow's publisher wasn't too keen on skipping DRM the first few times he tried it, but they seem to have figured out that he's right & the doomsayers were wrong.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 6:50 AM on February 18 [1 favorite]
Doctorow in 2012 on the doomsayers vs the truth that
Tor discovered that DRM did not stop anyone from copying, and in fact served only to lock them into the DRM vendors’ platforms. If you sell a million bucks worth of DRM-hobbled e-books on iBooks or Amazon, you create a million dollar switching-cost for your customers if they ever decide to switch to B&N or Kobo or any other new platform that might emerge in this still developing market. These companies are dire competitors, and they use DRM as offensive weapons against one another...posted by ASCII Costanza head at 6:55 AM on February 18 [1 favorite]
I’m committed to ignoring arrr matey options until and unless I’ve TRULY exhausted everything else. (Not a judgment on my matey friends, arr!) I’d just rather buy and scan physical books than that….
anotherpanacea: My personal position is that if you already own a physical copy of the book, then obtaining a digital copy isn't piracy, it's website-assisted format-shifting. Yes, i do understand that the current state of US law doesn't agree with me on this, but my point is, buying the physical books doesn't need to be followed up with scanning them yourself. If you feel particularly weird about it (after all, there is now an "extra copy"), you could then recycle the physical books.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:22 AM on February 18 [1 favorite]
anotherpanacea: My personal position is that if you already own a physical copy of the book, then obtaining a digital copy isn't piracy, it's website-assisted format-shifting. Yes, i do understand that the current state of US law doesn't agree with me on this, but my point is, buying the physical books doesn't need to be followed up with scanning them yourself. If you feel particularly weird about it (after all, there is now an "extra copy"), you could then recycle the physical books.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:22 AM on February 18 [1 favorite]
@tubedogg, that was so kind of you to spell out. I'm away from home, took a look at the script the other day and decided this was a project for this weekend, but your instructions were so thorough I was able to get it done just now. 419 books downloaded. The script even ends with a nice nudge to download the noDRM plugin and handily gives you your Kindle's serial number, so great job bellisk (or Jedi425 or whomever up the chain of forks).
I will say on my Mac (an M1 Air, running the latest version of Sequoia), I did have two hiccups: to open chromedriver I had to go to the Privacy and Security section of the Preferences, gatekeeper (or whatever it is) has only gotten more stringent as macOS goes on, simply right clicking only gave me the options "Done" or "Delete". And I found that I had to add the argument "--showbrowser" to the end of the command to actually get the script to run successfully. After that it worked beautifully.
I have been downloading and stripping the DRM for a while, but never went through my entire library. As much as I love the kindle hardware, the bloom has been off the Amazon rose for some time. Last year I switched to buying (save for a few deeply discounted books) from Kobo, stripping the DRM, and using Send to Kindle to get them onto my reader (and into my account, I use the phone app almost as often as my actual Kindle).
I know those of us who download our books like this are a pretty minor part of the market, but it is beyond frustrating when companies make these changes. Time was I was happy to buy from BN as well, even if I didn't have a nook, but they took away the ability to download your books long ago. I'm honestly surprised it took this long, and I hope they don't end up killing "Send to Kindle" too, but that does seem like what the next move would be if I were Amazon and were intent on locking in customers.
posted by sherman at 2:33 PM on February 19 [3 favorites]
I will say on my Mac (an M1 Air, running the latest version of Sequoia), I did have two hiccups: to open chromedriver I had to go to the Privacy and Security section of the Preferences, gatekeeper (or whatever it is) has only gotten more stringent as macOS goes on, simply right clicking only gave me the options "Done" or "Delete". And I found that I had to add the argument "--showbrowser" to the end of the command to actually get the script to run successfully. After that it worked beautifully.
I have been downloading and stripping the DRM for a while, but never went through my entire library. As much as I love the kindle hardware, the bloom has been off the Amazon rose for some time. Last year I switched to buying (save for a few deeply discounted books) from Kobo, stripping the DRM, and using Send to Kindle to get them onto my reader (and into my account, I use the phone app almost as often as my actual Kindle).
I know those of us who download our books like this are a pretty minor part of the market, but it is beyond frustrating when companies make these changes. Time was I was happy to buy from BN as well, even if I didn't have a nook, but they took away the ability to download your books long ago. I'm honestly surprised it took this long, and I hope they don't end up killing "Send to Kindle" too, but that does seem like what the next move would be if I were Amazon and were intent on locking in customers.
posted by sherman at 2:33 PM on February 19 [3 favorites]
If you file your Kindle books into collections, the downgraded Kindle app for Windows allows you to right-click on the collection name and download everything in the collection at once. Took me 50 clicks and about an hour instead of thousands of clicks and who knows how long.
The current version of the app might also allow you to do that, but I forgot to check before I downgraded it.
posted by telophase at 2:44 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
The current version of the app might also allow you to do that, but I forgot to check before I downgraded it.
posted by telophase at 2:44 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
This greasemonkey script explained in this video makes bulk downloading a lot easier. It's not perfect. You still have to page through your library on Amazon 25 books at a time, but it will download all 25 books on the page with one click. One bug is that if you have a non-downloadable item, e.g. a preview or a rental, the script stops and doesn't download anything after that on that page
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:35 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:35 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Not great news, but thanks for the heads up about it, we've added it to the sidebar and Best Of blog!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:39 AM on February 23
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:39 AM on February 23
Hi, I'm too stupid technologically to have understood a darned thing about this anywhere I've tried to read about it. Please explain like I'm a year old:
(a) If I have Kindle app on the phone rather than a Kindle gadget, is this some kind of issue?
(b) I haven't the faintest how to do this downloading DRM stuff off Kindle.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:39 PM on February 24
(a) If I have Kindle app on the phone rather than a Kindle gadget, is this some kind of issue?
(b) I haven't the faintest how to do this downloading DRM stuff off Kindle.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:39 PM on February 24
Never mind, YouTube informs me I can't download anything without a bought Kindle, which I still don't want. OH WELL.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:06 PM on February 24
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:06 PM on February 24
Youtube's not quite accurate.
(a) If I have Kindle app on the phone rather than a Kindle gadget, is this some kind of issue?
Basically, it depends what you want. When you paid for kindle books, did you see yourself as buying them, or as renting them strictly for use on kindle devices and/or apps, for as long as Amazon said you could access them and as long as you maintain your Amazon account?
If you're fine with thinking of the books you "bought" as being potentially temporary rentals, and you don't think you'll ever want to read them on a different app or device, then you can ignore all of this and stop reading this comment.
If you believed you were buying the books and not just a temporary right to access them, and you think you might one day (maybe not soon, but one day!) want to
- be able to read the books on a different app or device, or
- close your Amazon account, or
- lend or give a book to someone or bequeath it to your unknowing heirs, or
- be able to edit or do data processing on a book for your own purposes, or
- just have a backup copy in case Amazon ever decides to delete or alter the books for whatever reason, or
- just never again have to consider the question of whether or not you can access your books, or
- just flat-own own your stuff instead of renting it,
or you think it might be worth taking precautions
- in case Amazon suspends your account (this is a thing that apparently happens sometimes), or
- in case Amazon makes retroactive edits on books you've bought or just deletes them outright (like it famously did with 1984 back in the day), or
- in (the unlikely) case they ever go out of business or whatever
..... then you might want to make a backup of those books.
Amazon doesn't want you to have that ability. It restricts usage of its books with a kind of file encryption called DRM ("digital rights management"). Its DRM means you can only read the book on Amazon devices or apps. Even if you've downloaded a DRM'ed kindle book to your computer, you can't read that book on your computer unless it's through Amazon software. So it's not really a backup until the DRM is removed. Once it's removed, you're left with an ebook file you can read anywhere and use in any way. (Including in your existing Kindle app - you don't lose that ability.)
Some thing to note in order to understand this latest change:
- Over the years kindle ebook files have come in lots of different formats under the hood (mobi, azw, azw3/kf8, kfx, I never remember them all). The DRM for each format has also changed over the years. This is because of a cat-and-mouse game between Amazon and DRM-breakers, who crack the encryption and make DRM-removal tools for the rest of us.
- Newer devices can read older ebook/DRM formats, but older devices can't handle some of the newest ones.
- If I understand correctly, the newest version of Amazon's DRM, which is attached to the latest kindle format (kfx), either hasn't been cracked at all yet or is not 100% removable yet.
The following is just what I understand, but I don't have any personal experience of it since I've never gone through Amazon's ebook-buying process and thus never had to remove DRM from kindle books. I might be wrong on some details in which case I hope someone corrects me.
As I understand it: Until now, Amazon let you download your purchased ebooks from your account page online to your computer, using an option called Download and Transfer via USB. The idea was you could download the books to your computer and then plug in your kindle device with a USB cable and copy the books to it, like you would with any USB drive.
Those ebooks were encrypted with DRM, but - and this is presumably the part Amazon is acting against - it was possible to run some DRM-stripping software on the downloaded books. If I understand correctly, the crucial thing is that when you used that Download and Transfer option from your account page on the Amazon website, the books would be downloaded in an older format which can be easily deDRMed.
That ability is going away, supposedly on the 26th. (I say supposedly because apparently it's already been turned off for some accounts, and it's not clear whether that's a bug or not and whether Amazon will extend the deadline or not as a result.)
Even when it goes away, there are still some other ways to download books in formats that can be deDRMed pretty reliably:
- if you run Windows, you can download a (hopefully not sketchy and malware-ridden) old version of the Kindle for PC app, which will download ebooks in an old format. (Except I saw somewhere that it won't download books published after Jan. 2023?)
- if you have or can borrow an old kindle eink device (I don't remember how old they have to be, but old enough that they don't know how to open the latest kindle format/DRM combos) then you can use that device to download the books in an older format, and then plug it into your computer and copy the files from the device to your computer over USB. (Except I think some very old devices might be locked out of the kindle store at this point?)
I think you will still be able to download books to newer kindle devices and apps, and copy those books to your computer (at least from the eink devices - not sure how it works with the mobile apps), but I think the problem is those books will be in the newest formats, from which DRM can't yet be removed reliably (or at all?)
Also, you may feel ethically comfortable obtaining pirated copies of books you've already paid for, or using Overdrive/Libby to check copies of such ebooks out from your library and strip the DRM from those. (Those books usually use Adobe's DRM, not Amazon's.)
If you don't feel comfortable with piracy, or "stealing" library books, and don't have access to the older software/devices needed to download your existing Amazon ebook purchases, then your best bet is to try to download them from your account page on Amazon's website before the 26th and hope that avenue is still working.
I think once you've actually got the books on your computer, you can take your time removing the DRM - that's less urgent.
Note that even if you do download all your existing ebooks through your online account page, you won't be able to do that after the deadline. Which means if you buy new books from Amazon after that date, and you don't have access to the older software/devices mentioned above, and can't deDRM the newer formats, then you're locked in to using them only on Amazon platforms and, if I understand correctly, only as long as your account is active. (So maybe buy ebooks elsewhere. Aside from all the political reasons to buy books elsewhere.)
As for actually removing DRM once you've got the ebook files successfully on your computer - like I said I've never done this, but check out some guides and walkthroughs. (You'll see some websites and things that claim to do this, but I'd go with the guides that recommend Calibre. Calibre is a longstanding, well-known, super-useful, open-source software project that lets you organize, edit, or create ebooks, convert them to different formats, and otherwise manage them and transfer them to whatever devices you might have. It doesn't do DRM removal on its own, but has a plugin you can use to do that.)
Once you've set up Calibre and the plugin, getting rid of the DRM should be something like a one-click process.
posted by trig at 3:15 PM on February 24 [4 favorites]
(a) If I have Kindle app on the phone rather than a Kindle gadget, is this some kind of issue?
Basically, it depends what you want. When you paid for kindle books, did you see yourself as buying them, or as renting them strictly for use on kindle devices and/or apps, for as long as Amazon said you could access them and as long as you maintain your Amazon account?
If you're fine with thinking of the books you "bought" as being potentially temporary rentals, and you don't think you'll ever want to read them on a different app or device, then you can ignore all of this and stop reading this comment.
If you believed you were buying the books and not just a temporary right to access them, and you think you might one day (maybe not soon, but one day!) want to
- be able to read the books on a different app or device, or
- close your Amazon account, or
- lend or give a book to someone or bequeath it to your unknowing heirs, or
- be able to edit or do data processing on a book for your own purposes, or
- just have a backup copy in case Amazon ever decides to delete or alter the books for whatever reason, or
- just never again have to consider the question of whether or not you can access your books, or
- just flat-own own your stuff instead of renting it,
or you think it might be worth taking precautions
- in case Amazon suspends your account (this is a thing that apparently happens sometimes), or
- in case Amazon makes retroactive edits on books you've bought or just deletes them outright (like it famously did with 1984 back in the day), or
- in (the unlikely) case they ever go out of business or whatever
..... then you might want to make a backup of those books.
Amazon doesn't want you to have that ability. It restricts usage of its books with a kind of file encryption called DRM ("digital rights management"). Its DRM means you can only read the book on Amazon devices or apps. Even if you've downloaded a DRM'ed kindle book to your computer, you can't read that book on your computer unless it's through Amazon software. So it's not really a backup until the DRM is removed. Once it's removed, you're left with an ebook file you can read anywhere and use in any way. (Including in your existing Kindle app - you don't lose that ability.)
Some thing to note in order to understand this latest change:
- Over the years kindle ebook files have come in lots of different formats under the hood (mobi, azw, azw3/kf8, kfx, I never remember them all). The DRM for each format has also changed over the years. This is because of a cat-and-mouse game between Amazon and DRM-breakers, who crack the encryption and make DRM-removal tools for the rest of us.
- Newer devices can read older ebook/DRM formats, but older devices can't handle some of the newest ones.
- If I understand correctly, the newest version of Amazon's DRM, which is attached to the latest kindle format (kfx), either hasn't been cracked at all yet or is not 100% removable yet.
The following is just what I understand, but I don't have any personal experience of it since I've never gone through Amazon's ebook-buying process and thus never had to remove DRM from kindle books. I might be wrong on some details in which case I hope someone corrects me.
As I understand it: Until now, Amazon let you download your purchased ebooks from your account page online to your computer, using an option called Download and Transfer via USB. The idea was you could download the books to your computer and then plug in your kindle device with a USB cable and copy the books to it, like you would with any USB drive.
Those ebooks were encrypted with DRM, but - and this is presumably the part Amazon is acting against - it was possible to run some DRM-stripping software on the downloaded books. If I understand correctly, the crucial thing is that when you used that Download and Transfer option from your account page on the Amazon website, the books would be downloaded in an older format which can be easily deDRMed.
That ability is going away, supposedly on the 26th. (I say supposedly because apparently it's already been turned off for some accounts, and it's not clear whether that's a bug or not and whether Amazon will extend the deadline or not as a result.)
Even when it goes away, there are still some other ways to download books in formats that can be deDRMed pretty reliably:
- if you run Windows, you can download a (hopefully not sketchy and malware-ridden) old version of the Kindle for PC app, which will download ebooks in an old format. (Except I saw somewhere that it won't download books published after Jan. 2023?)
- if you have or can borrow an old kindle eink device (I don't remember how old they have to be, but old enough that they don't know how to open the latest kindle format/DRM combos) then you can use that device to download the books in an older format, and then plug it into your computer and copy the files from the device to your computer over USB. (Except I think some very old devices might be locked out of the kindle store at this point?)
I think you will still be able to download books to newer kindle devices and apps, and copy those books to your computer (at least from the eink devices - not sure how it works with the mobile apps), but I think the problem is those books will be in the newest formats, from which DRM can't yet be removed reliably (or at all?)
Also, you may feel ethically comfortable obtaining pirated copies of books you've already paid for, or using Overdrive/Libby to check copies of such ebooks out from your library and strip the DRM from those. (Those books usually use Adobe's DRM, not Amazon's.)
If you don't feel comfortable with piracy, or "stealing" library books, and don't have access to the older software/devices needed to download your existing Amazon ebook purchases, then your best bet is to try to download them from your account page on Amazon's website before the 26th and hope that avenue is still working.
I think once you've actually got the books on your computer, you can take your time removing the DRM - that's less urgent.
Note that even if you do download all your existing ebooks through your online account page, you won't be able to do that after the deadline. Which means if you buy new books from Amazon after that date, and you don't have access to the older software/devices mentioned above, and can't deDRM the newer formats, then you're locked in to using them only on Amazon platforms and, if I understand correctly, only as long as your account is active. (So maybe buy ebooks elsewhere. Aside from all the political reasons to buy books elsewhere.)
As for actually removing DRM once you've got the ebook files successfully on your computer - like I said I've never done this, but check out some guides and walkthroughs. (You'll see some websites and things that claim to do this, but I'd go with the guides that recommend Calibre. Calibre is a longstanding, well-known, super-useful, open-source software project that lets you organize, edit, or create ebooks, convert them to different formats, and otherwise manage them and transfer them to whatever devices you might have. It doesn't do DRM removal on its own, but has a plugin you can use to do that.)
Once you've set up Calibre and the plugin, getting rid of the DRM should be something like a one-click process.
posted by trig at 3:15 PM on February 24 [4 favorites]
Hmm, although according to this article you do need some older kindle or fire device to be (at least temporarily) registered to your account to even access the Download and Transfer option. The 2024 models won't even let you do that.
(It's insane that you can buy a book and still have all this junk to figure out instead of just getting to download the file and be done with it. There are some ebook publishers that don't use DRM at all; long may they prosper.)
posted by trig at 3:27 PM on February 24 [2 favorites]
(It's insane that you can buy a book and still have all this junk to figure out instead of just getting to download the file and be done with it. There are some ebook publishers that don't use DRM at all; long may they prosper.)
posted by trig at 3:27 PM on February 24 [2 favorites]
(a) If I have Kindle app on the phone rather than a Kindle gadget, is this some kind of issue?
If you don't have a physical, e-ink Kindle registered to your account, you won't have access to the feature that's going away and this is all moot for you. You might still be able to use the Kindle for PC app to download the books you've paid for; as of right now the download feature of the app isn't known to be going away. Books downloaded with Kindle for Mac can't be opened this way, though, so it could just be a matter of time before the same countermeasures are added to Kindle for PC.
(b) I haven't the faintest how to do this downloading DRM stuff off Kindle.
The guide I linked before explains what app you need (Calibre) and what plugins you need (several). The DeDRM plugin must be installed manually, so for that refer to MobileRead's Introduction to plugins and scroll to the section header, "To install a plugin using the Calibre gui." If you're using Kindle for PC the DeDRM plugin is supposed to detect its application key for you, but you may have to go to the plugin's configuration screen as I put in this comment and set it up manually if the automatic detection doesn't work.
posted by fedward at 4:38 PM on February 24 [2 favorites]
If you don't have a physical, e-ink Kindle registered to your account, you won't have access to the feature that's going away and this is all moot for you. You might still be able to use the Kindle for PC app to download the books you've paid for; as of right now the download feature of the app isn't known to be going away. Books downloaded with Kindle for Mac can't be opened this way, though, so it could just be a matter of time before the same countermeasures are added to Kindle for PC.
(b) I haven't the faintest how to do this downloading DRM stuff off Kindle.
The guide I linked before explains what app you need (Calibre) and what plugins you need (several). The DeDRM plugin must be installed manually, so for that refer to MobileRead's Introduction to plugins and scroll to the section header, "To install a plugin using the Calibre gui." If you're using Kindle for PC the DeDRM plugin is supposed to detect its application key for you, but you may have to go to the plugin's configuration screen as I put in this comment and set it up manually if the automatic detection doesn't work.
posted by fedward at 4:38 PM on February 24 [2 favorites]
trig, thank you so much for posting that information! I am right now backing up all of a friend's Kindle library because of your guide!
posted by JHarris at 6:12 PM on February 24 [1 favorite]
posted by JHarris at 6:12 PM on February 24 [1 favorite]
Dark Horse are closing their digital store too which sucks. I switched to them when Image wrapped up and switched to supporting a different app. You can download while you can (but the app won't be updated so any upcoming iOS change could break-it) and you can read it on their web-store (until the web-store closes).
Their FAQ (we all know this but it makes plain what a lot of people may have missed) -
"Do I own the comics in my bookshelf?
Technically, you do not. As with Kindle, Nook, and other e-book companies, you license the right to read the book on supported and authorized devices."
posted by phigmov at 7:48 PM on February 24 [1 favorite]
Their FAQ (we all know this but it makes plain what a lot of people may have missed) -
"Do I own the comics in my bookshelf?
Technically, you do not. As with Kindle, Nook, and other e-book companies, you license the right to read the book on supported and authorized devices."
posted by phigmov at 7:48 PM on February 24 [1 favorite]
It's not without a feeling of overly conspicuous irony that I have just downloaded to USB, "Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things" from page 16 of my 24 pages of ~600 Kindle books*. As it is now February 25, I expect I will also soon come across some title like "How to Conquer Procrastination Forever With One Easy Trick!"
On the other hand, I've now been reminded of a number of books I want to read, re-read, or look at again, so, eh, it's not entirely terrible. Also, it turns out I apparently have an old-old Kindle registered, so I've been able to get all these in AZW format (as opposed to AZW3), which is helpful. Also, have you ever noticed how super, super excited Calibre always is? Like a dog waiting in excruciating anticipation for you to finally throw that damn ball? I've slightly mis-clicked and managed to summon Calibre like three times so far.
* (not even all my ebooks, by far, since I mostly stopped buying in Kindle format several years ago BC, or Before Covid, in the parlance of our times. No, I don't manage to read them all! I've sort of unwillingly come to terms with that over a lifetime that stubbornly continues insisting on not getting miraculously longer.)
posted by taz at 3:22 AM on February 25 [2 favorites]
On the other hand, I've now been reminded of a number of books I want to read, re-read, or look at again, so, eh, it's not entirely terrible. Also, it turns out I apparently have an old-old Kindle registered, so I've been able to get all these in AZW format (as opposed to AZW3), which is helpful. Also, have you ever noticed how super, super excited Calibre always is? Like a dog waiting in excruciating anticipation for you to finally throw that damn ball? I've slightly mis-clicked and managed to summon Calibre like three times so far.
* (not even all my ebooks, by far, since I mostly stopped buying in Kindle format several years ago BC, or Before Covid, in the parlance of our times. No, I don't manage to read them all! I've sort of unwillingly come to terms with that over a lifetime that stubbornly continues insisting on not getting miraculously longer.)
posted by taz at 3:22 AM on February 25 [2 favorites]
Glad to hear that, JHarris! Hope you (and taz) were able to get it all.
(taz, I've long since decided that for someone with hoarding instincts like me, digital hoarding is not the worst way to channel them...)
For anyone who missed the deadline, there's still (currently) the Kindle-for-PC way and the use-an-old-kindle way. If you don't have or want to get an old one but know someone who (a) does and (b) cares about this kind of stuff, they may well be happy to lend it to you for these purposes!
posted by trig at 9:05 AM on February 27 [1 favorite]
(taz, I've long since decided that for someone with hoarding instincts like me, digital hoarding is not the worst way to channel them...)
For anyone who missed the deadline, there's still (currently) the Kindle-for-PC way and the use-an-old-kindle way. If you don't have or want to get an old one but know someone who (a) does and (b) cares about this kind of stuff, they may well be happy to lend it to you for these purposes!
posted by trig at 9:05 AM on February 27 [1 favorite]
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posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:13 AM on February 16 [46 favorites]