A king above the law
February 20, 2025 11:47 AM Subscribe
"This order effectively erases the last major restraints on executive power. "Therefore, in order to improve the administration of the executive branch and to increase regulatory officials’ accountability to the American people, it shall be the policy of the executive branch to ensure Presidential supervision and control of the entire executive branch."
Trump claims expanded power over independent agencies
The Extreme Legal Theory Behind Trump’s First Month in Office
NYT: Trump Issues Order to Expand His Power Over Agencies Congress Made Independent
WaPo: Trump order challenges independence of FCC, FTC and financial regulators. The order is the latest example of Trump’s embrace of a broad and controversial theory of executive power. The White House is confident the Supreme Court will bless his approach.
I'm not great on understanding legal things, but this Reddit post spelled it out in great detail.
Trump claims expanded power over independent agencies
The Extreme Legal Theory Behind Trump’s First Month in Office
NYT: Trump Issues Order to Expand His Power Over Agencies Congress Made Independent
WaPo: Trump order challenges independence of FCC, FTC and financial regulators. The order is the latest example of Trump’s embrace of a broad and controversial theory of executive power. The White House is confident the Supreme Court will bless his approach.
I'm not great on understanding legal things, but this Reddit post spelled it out in great detail.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Double. Kind of a double of a previous thread from yesterday so let's consolidate the threads -- Brandon Blatcher
Put it together with de facto legalized bribery and it's a perfect system (if you're a billionaire or Fortune 500 CEO).
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 12:03 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 12:03 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
posted by heyitsgogi at 12:11 PM on February 20 [10 favorites]
posted by heyitsgogi at 12:11 PM on February 20 [10 favorites]
uuuuuuuuuck
posted by heyitsgogi at 12:12 PM on February 20 [11 favorites]
posted by heyitsgogi at 12:12 PM on February 20 [11 favorites]
it will be a bloodless revolution if the left allows it to be.
posted by Sperry Topsider at 12:16 PM on February 20 [6 favorites]
posted by Sperry Topsider at 12:16 PM on February 20 [6 favorites]
Ron Swanson holding up a permit piece of paper reading "I can do what I want" has not aged real well as a joke.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:18 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:18 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
I hate not knowing how bad things are going to get and not knowing if I'm overreacting (or underreacting) and not being able to trust anyone's assessment of the situation because no one knows. I'm not sure if I'm going to have to flee the country because I'm trans or because I'm on antipsychotics or if that's a ridiculous thing to be considering. Maybe in a few years I'll look back and say "things were wild, I had a go bag packed, we really thought everything was going to fall apart" and everything will get sorted out but I can't take the risk that that's not the case. Seeing things like RAINN taking references to trans people off their website is making me feel incredibly scared and alone. I don't know who else is going to abandon us.
posted by an octopus IRL at 12:18 PM on February 20 [30 favorites]
posted by an octopus IRL at 12:18 PM on February 20 [30 favorites]
If Congress's power of the purse is advisory and congressional oversight is advisory and judicial orders are advisory (as in they can all be ignored without consequence) then... that sure seems like a monarchy.
I, for one, would like to insist that America has no king.
posted by drhex at 12:28 PM on February 20 [15 favorites]
I, for one, would like to insist that America has no king.
posted by drhex at 12:28 PM on February 20 [15 favorites]
I don't know who else is going to abandon us.
Most of them, unfortunately. Holding the line on gender-inclusive ENDA in 2007 was a fucking miracle (even if the HRC predictably threw us under the bus) and the actual stakes there were pretty low (given that non-discrimination protection is only as useful as it is enforceable). I wouldn't trust non-LGBT orgs for three seconds, except maybe the ACLU due to Chase Strangio.
I'm really worried about the FQHCs, honestly.
I'm a dual citizen and I don't know that it's going to come to fleeing, but I've spent the last few weeks facing up to the fact that I'll probably be wanting to make an orderly exit in the next few years.
posted by hoyland at 12:30 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
Most of them, unfortunately. Holding the line on gender-inclusive ENDA in 2007 was a fucking miracle (even if the HRC predictably threw us under the bus) and the actual stakes there were pretty low (given that non-discrimination protection is only as useful as it is enforceable). I wouldn't trust non-LGBT orgs for three seconds, except maybe the ACLU due to Chase Strangio.
I'm really worried about the FQHCs, honestly.
I'm a dual citizen and I don't know that it's going to come to fleeing, but I've spent the last few weeks facing up to the fact that I'll probably be wanting to make an orderly exit in the next few years.
posted by hoyland at 12:30 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
This seems to be effectively a duplicate of the post over here, btw. That one has a lot more discussion.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:31 PM on February 20 [5 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:31 PM on February 20 [5 favorites]
There really isn't a useful way to talk about any of this. You can go the Stewart/Oliver route of hectoring people that they aren't being hopeful enough and their despair is a moral failing, but I can't really walk that road. You can go full Luigi apologist and get yourself banned from any website run by people with a lick of sense. You can be a NYT columnsist and insist the problem is swearing or something. But really Trump has the American Left in something resembling checkmate as far as the national discourse goes.
51% of America likes what they're seeing.
posted by East14thTaco at 12:37 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
51% of America likes what they're seeing.
posted by East14thTaco at 12:37 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
51% of America likes what they're seeing.
That isn't true. The Q poll today shows it's not true, and even without poll, that kind of despair-statistic is misleading. Most people aren't paying attention to politics. And if your number references the election results, then of course you know that 100% of eligible voters did not participate. Etc. etc.
posted by stevil at 12:50 PM on February 20 [13 favorites]
That isn't true. The Q poll today shows it's not true, and even without poll, that kind of despair-statistic is misleading. Most people aren't paying attention to politics. And if your number references the election results, then of course you know that 100% of eligible voters did not participate. Etc. etc.
posted by stevil at 12:50 PM on February 20 [13 favorites]
Where is the US Politics tag, please? I didn't need to see this.
posted by tzikeh at 12:50 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
posted by tzikeh at 12:50 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
The linked Reddit post isn't viewable without, I guess, applying to join the group and being accepted?
posted by stevil at 12:51 PM on February 20
posted by stevil at 12:51 PM on February 20
That isn't true. The Q poll today shows it's not true, and even without poll, that kind of despair-statistic is misleading. Most people aren't paying attention to politics. And if your number references the election results, then of course you know that 100% of eligible voters did not participate. Etc. etc.
Oh yeah, I forgot about "cut low information voters some slack because they're dumber than we are." That old saw never gets dull, does it?
51% of America is happy with what they're seeing.
posted by East14thTaco at 1:05 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
Oh yeah, I forgot about "cut low information voters some slack because they're dumber than we are." That old saw never gets dull, does it?
51% of America is happy with what they're seeing.
posted by East14thTaco at 1:05 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
> American Left in something resembling checkmate
“We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be,” Kevin Roberts said in an interview on Steve Bannon’s “War Room” podcast on Tuesday.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/07/03/project-2025-kevin-roberts-scotus-immunity-ruling/74289539007/
Indeed, the electorate had the information necessary to vote on this issue. They're getting what they wanted, "good and hard" as the man said.
The destruction of the federal government as we know it hasn't changed anything for people quite yet; it's difficult to march in the streets for something that's going to go down in 2026 or 2050 or whenever.
posted by torokunai2 at 1:05 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
“We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be,” Kevin Roberts said in an interview on Steve Bannon’s “War Room” podcast on Tuesday.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/07/03/project-2025-kevin-roberts-scotus-immunity-ruling/74289539007/
Indeed, the electorate had the information necessary to vote on this issue. They're getting what they wanted, "good and hard" as the man said.
The destruction of the federal government as we know it hasn't changed anything for people quite yet; it's difficult to march in the streets for something that's going to go down in 2026 or 2050 or whenever.
posted by torokunai2 at 1:05 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
stevil: That is a change within the past hour -- I've still got it open in another tab.
Here is the text of the now inaccessible Reddit post:
🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨This Executive Order does the following:
❧ All federal agencies, including independent regulatory commissions, are now subject to direct White House control.
❧ Regulations cannot be issued without presidential approval.
❧ The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) can now withhold funding from independent agencies if they don’t align with White House priorities.
❧ All federal employees must follow the President’s and Attorney General’s interpretation of the law, eliminating legal independence.
❧ A White House Liaison is to be installed in every independent regulatory agency to enforce direct presidential control.
⚠️ This is the biggest executive power grab in U.S. history. ⚠️
This formally ends the concept of an “independent” regulatory agency, dismantling one of the last barriers to absolute executive power.
📍 This order effectively erases the last major restraints on executive power. 📍 The federal government no longer operates with checks and balances. 📍 Regulations and laws are now dictated solely by the President. 📍 If left unchecked, this is the moment the U.S. ceases to function as a democratic republic.
1️⃣ The President Now Controls All Regulatory Agencies
✅ The SEC, FTC, FCC, and FEC are no longer independent.
The Stock Market is now subject to White House control, enabling insider trading, favoritism, and targeting of political opponents. Antitrust laws can be selectively enforced, allowing administration-friendly monopolies to expand unchecked. Political opponents in the tech sector, media, or finance can be targeted with regulatory action while allies are protected. Elections are now influenced by direct White House oversight of the Federal Election Commission (FEC).
✅ The FDA, EPA, and consumer protection agencies are fully politicized.
Drug approvals, food safety regulations, and environmental policies can be rewritten for political or corporate interests. Climate change regulations can be erased overnight. Scientific research is now subject to White House approval before public release.
🚨 Implication: There is no longer any neutral enforcement of economic, environmental, or election laws. Everything is now dictated by political loyalty.
2️⃣ The White House Can Block Agency Budgets or Direct Funds Elsewhere
✅ The OMB can now adjust funding allocations for independent agencies.
This gives the President the power to defund agencies without needing Congress. Regulatory agencies that challenge presidential policies will be quietly strangled of resources. Agencies loyal to the President will receive full funding—even illegally. 🚨 Implication: Congress no longer controls federal spending on regulatory enforcement. The executive branch can choke out opposition agencies and reward allies.
3️⃣ The President & Attorney General Have Final Say on All Legal Interpretations ✅ All federal employees must follow White House interpretations of the law.
The Attorney General’s opinions override agency lawyers, inspectors general, and independent counsel. Agencies cannot adopt their own interpretations of legal statutes—everything must align with the President’s views. The President can rewrite federal legal interpretations overnight. 🚨 Implication: Legal consistency is gone. Agencies cannot push back against corrupt, illegal, or unconstitutional directives because the President’s interpretation is the only interpretation allowed.
4️⃣ Installing White House Liaisons in All Regulatory Agencies ✅ A “White House Liaison” will be placed in every independent agency.
This ensures constant presidential oversight of daily operations. These liaisons will report agency actions back to the White House and enforce political compliance. Agency directors will no longer have the ability to act without White House approval.
🚨 Implication: There is now a direct enforcement arm inside every regulatory body. Even agencies that resist presidential control will be internally monitored and controlled.
📍 Every regulatory body—from financial markets to environmental protections—is now politicized. 📍 Congress no longer controls federal funding—agencies must obey the White House or risk defunding. 📍 The President’s legal interpretations override all agency autonomy, eliminating independent enforcement of federal laws. 📍 The federal bureaucracy, once designed to be resistant to corruption, is now completely subject to presidential loyalty.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 1:06 PM on February 20 [18 favorites]
Here is the text of the now inaccessible Reddit post:
🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨This Executive Order does the following:
❧ All federal agencies, including independent regulatory commissions, are now subject to direct White House control.
❧ Regulations cannot be issued without presidential approval.
❧ The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) can now withhold funding from independent agencies if they don’t align with White House priorities.
❧ All federal employees must follow the President’s and Attorney General’s interpretation of the law, eliminating legal independence.
❧ A White House Liaison is to be installed in every independent regulatory agency to enforce direct presidential control.
⚠️ This is the biggest executive power grab in U.S. history. ⚠️
This formally ends the concept of an “independent” regulatory agency, dismantling one of the last barriers to absolute executive power.
📍 This order effectively erases the last major restraints on executive power. 📍 The federal government no longer operates with checks and balances. 📍 Regulations and laws are now dictated solely by the President. 📍 If left unchecked, this is the moment the U.S. ceases to function as a democratic republic.
1️⃣ The President Now Controls All Regulatory Agencies
✅ The SEC, FTC, FCC, and FEC are no longer independent.
The Stock Market is now subject to White House control, enabling insider trading, favoritism, and targeting of political opponents. Antitrust laws can be selectively enforced, allowing administration-friendly monopolies to expand unchecked. Political opponents in the tech sector, media, or finance can be targeted with regulatory action while allies are protected. Elections are now influenced by direct White House oversight of the Federal Election Commission (FEC).
✅ The FDA, EPA, and consumer protection agencies are fully politicized.
Drug approvals, food safety regulations, and environmental policies can be rewritten for political or corporate interests. Climate change regulations can be erased overnight. Scientific research is now subject to White House approval before public release.
🚨 Implication: There is no longer any neutral enforcement of economic, environmental, or election laws. Everything is now dictated by political loyalty.
2️⃣ The White House Can Block Agency Budgets or Direct Funds Elsewhere
✅ The OMB can now adjust funding allocations for independent agencies.
This gives the President the power to defund agencies without needing Congress. Regulatory agencies that challenge presidential policies will be quietly strangled of resources. Agencies loyal to the President will receive full funding—even illegally. 🚨 Implication: Congress no longer controls federal spending on regulatory enforcement. The executive branch can choke out opposition agencies and reward allies.
3️⃣ The President & Attorney General Have Final Say on All Legal Interpretations ✅ All federal employees must follow White House interpretations of the law.
The Attorney General’s opinions override agency lawyers, inspectors general, and independent counsel. Agencies cannot adopt their own interpretations of legal statutes—everything must align with the President’s views. The President can rewrite federal legal interpretations overnight. 🚨 Implication: Legal consistency is gone. Agencies cannot push back against corrupt, illegal, or unconstitutional directives because the President’s interpretation is the only interpretation allowed.
4️⃣ Installing White House Liaisons in All Regulatory Agencies ✅ A “White House Liaison” will be placed in every independent agency.
This ensures constant presidential oversight of daily operations. These liaisons will report agency actions back to the White House and enforce political compliance. Agency directors will no longer have the ability to act without White House approval.
🚨 Implication: There is now a direct enforcement arm inside every regulatory body. Even agencies that resist presidential control will be internally monitored and controlled.
📍 Every regulatory body—from financial markets to environmental protections—is now politicized. 📍 Congress no longer controls federal funding—agencies must obey the White House or risk defunding. 📍 The President’s legal interpretations override all agency autonomy, eliminating independent enforcement of federal laws. 📍 The federal bureaucracy, once designed to be resistant to corruption, is now completely subject to presidential loyalty.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 1:06 PM on February 20 [18 favorites]
I, for one, would like to insist that America has no king.
If Washington had not decided to not run for a third term, and/or had had kids, we'd probably be a much different country now. I guess the first 3 or 4 Presidents after him get some of that praise too.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 1:11 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
If Washington had not decided to not run for a third term, and/or had had kids, we'd probably be a much different country now. I guess the first 3 or 4 Presidents after him get some of that praise too.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 1:11 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
if it weren't for the 22nd amendment this would most likely be the start of barack obama's fifth term.
posted by Sperry Topsider at 1:15 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
posted by Sperry Topsider at 1:15 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
I've been thinking why Amercian aren't protesting in the streets more.
If I had to guess, I think the average US citizen already thinks of the president as a monarch with unlimited powers, so these EOs are just saying the quiet part loud, and it doesn't really changes how they view the presidency. Or they know it's crazy overreach but they don't care because it's 'their' team doing it.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:19 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
If I had to guess, I think the average US citizen already thinks of the president as a monarch with unlimited powers, so these EOs are just saying the quiet part loud, and it doesn't really changes how they view the presidency. Or they know it's crazy overreach but they don't care because it's 'their' team doing it.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:19 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
if it weren't for the 22nd amendment this would most likely be the start of barack obama's fifth term.
Gonna really need some explanation on that one, chief.
posted by star gentle uterus at 1:24 PM on February 20
Gonna really need some explanation on that one, chief.
posted by star gentle uterus at 1:24 PM on February 20
I had a family member ask if firing National Park employees was bad. So yeah, for a certain segment of America, the President is the one in control.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 1:26 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 1:26 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
if it weren't for the 22nd amendment this would most likely be the start of barack obama's fifth term.
Gonna really need some explanation on that one, chief.
Bill Clinton would still be President, I'd wager.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 1:27 PM on February 20
Gonna really need some explanation on that one, chief.
Bill Clinton would still be President, I'd wager.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 1:27 PM on February 20
One of the things I dont quite get is why there isnt one male* hardass dem** who tells the new powers (Trump's team and the Oligarchs) that, yea, youre on top right now. But you better be very afraid cause when we get back into power, and we will because you jackasses always mess everything up, that we are going to fuck you up and take EVERYTHING from you. And you will have given us the keys to do it.
* I said male cause everyone knows these misogynists in mega-land, trumpistan, muskville and oligarch town will NOT listen to a woman
** hahaha, everyone knows there isnt such a creature alive.
posted by WatTylerJr at 1:29 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
* I said male cause everyone knows these misogynists in mega-land, trumpistan, muskville and oligarch town will NOT listen to a woman
** hahaha, everyone knows there isnt such a creature alive.
posted by WatTylerJr at 1:29 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
> I've been thinking why Amercian aren't protesting in the streets more.
Won't do anything. They have control of the money, the guns, law enforcement and the military. This was a coup and it's done.
Most people I know taking this seriously are preparing to live in a world where the US government is hostile to their existence. Reorganizing a government from scratch while subject to a hostile government is hard. Take a look at Georgia or Ukraine or Belarus...
posted by constraint at 1:30 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
Won't do anything. They have control of the money, the guns, law enforcement and the military. This was a coup and it's done.
Most people I know taking this seriously are preparing to live in a world where the US government is hostile to their existence. Reorganizing a government from scratch while subject to a hostile government is hard. Take a look at Georgia or Ukraine or Belarus...
posted by constraint at 1:30 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
I've been thinking why Amercian aren't protesting in the streets more.
This often gets brought up in the context of how the French are really good at striking and protesting. I think the most important difference between the US and France is that France has some sort of social safety net. Like, you may be protesting or striking so therefore not working, but you've got some basics covered. Again, just my perception but I will gladly cede the floor to French folks who know better.
In the US, everything is centered around productivity and money. Healthcare even with insurance is precarious, wages are the same, COL as well. I would wager most Americans are too afraid to do so because it might jeopardize their job, their insurance, etc.
posted by Kitteh at 1:37 PM on February 20 [6 favorites]
This often gets brought up in the context of how the French are really good at striking and protesting. I think the most important difference between the US and France is that France has some sort of social safety net. Like, you may be protesting or striking so therefore not working, but you've got some basics covered. Again, just my perception but I will gladly cede the floor to French folks who know better.
In the US, everything is centered around productivity and money. Healthcare even with insurance is precarious, wages are the same, COL as well. I would wager most Americans are too afraid to do so because it might jeopardize their job, their insurance, etc.
posted by Kitteh at 1:37 PM on February 20 [6 favorites]
** hahaha, everyone knows there isnt such a creature alive.
It was Fettermann. But for some reason he's switched sides.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 1:38 PM on February 20
It was Fettermann. But for some reason he's switched sides.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 1:38 PM on February 20
*52% disapprove*
Cool. Those are Reagan numbers. How about we go out there and win a fucking thing for once in our lives? There is more to life than Georgia and trust me when I say Gavin Newsom is not the great white hope.
posted by East14thTaco at 1:38 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
Cool. Those are Reagan numbers. How about we go out there and win a fucking thing for once in our lives? There is more to life than Georgia and trust me when I say Gavin Newsom is not the great white hope.
posted by East14thTaco at 1:38 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
Protests on the street form camaraderie and solidarity between protesters and a more silent majority. But absent Nation-Stopping protests, they are ignored, or sometimes, crushed by authorities.
When is the last time a 'normal' protest caused a change in policy from the right?
Organization and resistance has to be more than marching with a sign and shouting.
posted by lalochezia at 1:40 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
When is the last time a 'normal' protest caused a change in policy from the right?
Organization and resistance has to be more than marching with a sign and shouting.
posted by lalochezia at 1:40 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
I swear to God, nothing makes me angrier than watching my fellow Americans just throw up their hands and say, "Welp, nothing to be done! We're all fucked now! Might as well just stay home because Trump has already won!"
We won't know unless we try. We can't win unless we fight. Even if we don't think we can win, we must fight because it is the morally right thing to do.
posted by joyceanmachine at 1:41 PM on February 20 [12 favorites]
We won't know unless we try. We can't win unless we fight. Even if we don't think we can win, we must fight because it is the morally right thing to do.
posted by joyceanmachine at 1:41 PM on February 20 [12 favorites]
The Great Big Mulp: "This Executive Order does the following:"
We need to stop saying that. This Executive Order claims the following. Saying he has the power without challenging it, as the media seems to keep doing, is playing into his hands. He can issue an Executive Order saying that Canada is now the state of East Alaska but that doesn't fucking make it true. When the EO is illegal, we need to repeat that it's illegal.
posted by caution live frogs at 1:42 PM on February 20 [17 favorites]
We need to stop saying that. This Executive Order claims the following. Saying he has the power without challenging it, as the media seems to keep doing, is playing into his hands. He can issue an Executive Order saying that Canada is now the state of East Alaska but that doesn't fucking make it true. When the EO is illegal, we need to repeat that it's illegal.
posted by caution live frogs at 1:42 PM on February 20 [17 favorites]
I've been thinking why Americans aren't protesting in the streets more.
It took the Egyptians — a much braver people than we — decades of much more ruthless oppression than anything we've seen yet to reach the point of a million people risking their blood in the street, which is what it was always going to take.
The America we grew up in is gone and it is never coming back. Our move.
posted by Lemkin at 1:49 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
It took the Egyptians — a much braver people than we — decades of much more ruthless oppression than anything we've seen yet to reach the point of a million people risking their blood in the street, which is what it was always going to take.
The America we grew up in is gone and it is never coming back. Our move.
posted by Lemkin at 1:49 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
I've been thinking why Amercian aren't protesting in the streets more.
We are. I've been out there twice in the last four weeks. I live in a tiny town in a purple tinged to red rural county in a blue state and this past Monday there were over 200 people with me. At noon on a Monday, admittedly a holiday, but not a big one. The protest before that was on a Wednesday at noon and it was alternately sleeting and hailing and still there were about 120 brave souls with signs lining the main street, which also happens to be one of the only two streets in or out of the county. I protested here for a women's march after the fizz had gone out of that movement and during what is now called the George Floyd Rebellion and we did not get this kind of turnout. People are angry. It's inspiring and makes me feel better about the possibility of maybe not all the terrible things coming true. Come out with us! At least here, there have been way less counter protestors than before and way more cars beeping in solidarity than angrily gunning their engines in rage.
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:51 PM on February 20 [20 favorites]
We are. I've been out there twice in the last four weeks. I live in a tiny town in a purple tinged to red rural county in a blue state and this past Monday there were over 200 people with me. At noon on a Monday, admittedly a holiday, but not a big one. The protest before that was on a Wednesday at noon and it was alternately sleeting and hailing and still there were about 120 brave souls with signs lining the main street, which also happens to be one of the only two streets in or out of the county. I protested here for a women's march after the fizz had gone out of that movement and during what is now called the George Floyd Rebellion and we did not get this kind of turnout. People are angry. It's inspiring and makes me feel better about the possibility of maybe not all the terrible things coming true. Come out with us! At least here, there have been way less counter protestors than before and way more cars beeping in solidarity than angrily gunning their engines in rage.
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:51 PM on February 20 [20 favorites]
Does anyone have a pulse on how this kind of thing is going down over in conservative circles? Like, obviously the red hat, MAGA rally types are lapping it up but I'm wondering more about the supposedly sober and serious conservative thinkers in the academy as well as in media. I haven't been keeping close tabs on them recently so I'm a curious where they are in all this.
posted by mhum at 2:23 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
posted by mhum at 2:23 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
I've said it before and will say it again: The crisis is not Trump's policies, as bad as they are. It's that he's ignoring the law.
There's a reasonable argument that these agencies should be under the control of the President, just as there's a reasonable argument that certain USAID programs are wasteful and should be cut. But today, the law says those agencies are independent, just as the law says the President must spend money appropriated by Congress.
Policies come and policies go. But once the rule of law is gone, we have nothing.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 2:25 PM on February 20 [6 favorites]
There's a reasonable argument that these agencies should be under the control of the President, just as there's a reasonable argument that certain USAID programs are wasteful and should be cut. But today, the law says those agencies are independent, just as the law says the President must spend money appropriated by Congress.
Policies come and policies go. But once the rule of law is gone, we have nothing.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 2:25 PM on February 20 [6 favorites]
He can issue an Executive Order saying that Canada is now the state of East Alaska but that doesn't fucking make it true. When the EO is illegal, we need to repeat that it's illegal.
This right here. I mean, everyone can SAY they have power over something but I hope HOPE people affected by it stand up to it ENOUGH to make it clear that it's illegal and effectively pointless and not worth the paper it's written on. (at least I hope I'm interpreting it correctly...)
posted by TheHouseFinch at 2:32 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
This right here. I mean, everyone can SAY they have power over something but I hope HOPE people affected by it stand up to it ENOUGH to make it clear that it's illegal and effectively pointless and not worth the paper it's written on. (at least I hope I'm interpreting it correctly...)
posted by TheHouseFinch at 2:32 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
I advocate full Luigi Apologism, full Leon Czolgosz Apologism, and I don't approve of his reasons or aim, but John Hinckley Jr. was on the right track too.
posted by jy4m at 2:32 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
posted by jy4m at 2:32 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
just stop with posting "will no one rid us of this troublesome" crap on any electronic forum. unless you like awkward questions asked by bald white guys with earpieces at 3am in the morning. just stop. stop. for your own good. there is enough computing horsepower and ai bullshit to inhale and digest everything posted everywhere by everyone and getting caught up in that dragline is not your idea of a fun day.
posted by seanmpuckett at 2:35 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 2:35 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
Like, you may be protesting or striking so therefore not working, but you've got some basics covered. Again, just my perception but I will gladly cede the floor to French folks who know better.
You’re not going to be housed or fed by the safety net while on strike, but from what I know it would be very hard to fire you for it depending on what kind of employment contract you’re on. So that makes it easier to go for a few days and rotate
Also the US is BIG makes it harder to collect people in the capital for a massive protest.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:36 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
You’re not going to be housed or fed by the safety net while on strike, but from what I know it would be very hard to fire you for it depending on what kind of employment contract you’re on. So that makes it easier to go for a few days and rotate
Also the US is BIG makes it harder to collect people in the capital for a massive protest.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:36 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
Come to my arraignment so you can say I told you so
posted by jy4m at 2:37 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
posted by jy4m at 2:37 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
I've been thinking why Amercian aren't protesting in the streets more.
They are. But the mainstream media isn't covering it. Big protest at the MA State House the other day.
posted by Melismata at 2:38 PM on February 20 [7 favorites]
They are. But the mainstream media isn't covering it. Big protest at the MA State House the other day.
posted by Melismata at 2:38 PM on February 20 [7 favorites]
"A king can never be held accountable, therefore a king must never make a management decision."
posted by pwnguin at 2:38 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
posted by pwnguin at 2:38 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
i see you think there will be an arraignment, ok. that is not how fascists operate. they will just deport you for treason. definitely, definitely stop.
posted by seanmpuckett at 2:38 PM on February 20
posted by seanmpuckett at 2:38 PM on February 20
just stop with posting "will no one rid us of this troublesome" crap on any electronic forum.
Sage advice, but it should be noted that TFG is an old man who (according to some reliable sources) takes a lot of dangerous drugs. He has much less road ahead of him than behind.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 2:40 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
Sage advice, but it should be noted that TFG is an old man who (according to some reliable sources) takes a lot of dangerous drugs. He has much less road ahead of him than behind.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 2:40 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
One reason is it's cold out there. Come summer, and the price of eggs are still up and the streets will be full.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 2:42 PM on February 20
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 2:42 PM on February 20
> one reason is it's cold out there. Come summer, and the price of eggs are still up and the streets will be full.
famously the february revolution started on an unseasonably warm day, which made it much easier to get the factory workers of st. petersburg to mobilize in the streets.
posted by Sperry Topsider at 2:47 PM on February 20
famously the february revolution started on an unseasonably warm day, which made it much easier to get the factory workers of st. petersburg to mobilize in the streets.
posted by Sperry Topsider at 2:47 PM on February 20
Does anyone have a pulse on how this kind of thing is going down over in conservative circles?
The Wall Street Journal editorial board hasn’t been a fan of the tariff plans or selling out Ukraine, but they’re pretty cool with the rest of it. For example “His bold order putting ‘independent agencies’ under White House control echoes the Founders.”
posted by jedicus at 2:48 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
The Wall Street Journal editorial board hasn’t been a fan of the tariff plans or selling out Ukraine, but they’re pretty cool with the rest of it. For example “His bold order putting ‘independent agencies’ under White House control echoes the Founders.”
posted by jedicus at 2:48 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
> I've been thinking why Amercian aren't protesting in the streets more.
Won't do anything. They have control of the money, the guns, law enforcement and the military.
American't
posted by kitcat at 2:48 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
Won't do anything. They have control of the money, the guns, law enforcement and the military.
American't
posted by kitcat at 2:48 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
> jedicus: "The Wall Street Journal editorial board hasn’t been a fan of the tariff plans or selling out Ukraine, but they’re pretty cool with the rest of it."
Utterly unsurprising. For all their talk about "strict Constitutionalism" or "original intent" or whatever, it's become pretty clear what these conservatives actually believe.
posted by mhum at 2:53 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
Utterly unsurprising. For all their talk about "strict Constitutionalism" or "original intent" or whatever, it's become pretty clear what these conservatives actually believe.
posted by mhum at 2:53 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
We won't know unless we try.
Ok. Show me someone who's trying.
posted by East14thTaco at 2:54 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
Ok. Show me someone who's trying.
posted by East14thTaco at 2:54 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
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posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 11:59 AM on February 20 [8 favorites]