CANADA FUCKING WON
February 20, 2025 10:35 PM Subscribe
Canada wins the 4 Nations Face-Off final after Connor McDavid scores in overtime.. Trump's teams keep losing.
A beauty of a GWG in OT1. And it did, in fact, mean a lot more than that.
Good stuff, b’ys.
posted by armeowda at 10:44 PM on February 20 [12 favorites]
Good stuff, b’ys.
posted by armeowda at 10:44 PM on February 20 [12 favorites]
I believe the most elegant bit of Canadian patriotism to be found on Reddit after the win was the comment, "11th province bitches suck my nuts USA".
There was also the vulgar, "Maple syrup is coming out of every orifice of my body."
posted by clawsoon at 10:45 PM on February 20 [35 favorites]
There was also the vulgar, "Maple syrup is coming out of every orifice of my body."
posted by clawsoon at 10:45 PM on February 20 [35 favorites]
Party like it's 1812!
posted by Horkus at 10:48 PM on February 20 [14 favorites]
posted by Horkus at 10:48 PM on February 20 [14 favorites]
I was at a bar in spokane and cheered when the goal went it....met with silence, but was unapologetic. I'm american btw, but knew what it meant.
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:57 PM on February 20 [16 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:57 PM on February 20 [16 favorites]
45 claims cheating and corruption in 3, 2, ...
posted by quinndexter at 10:59 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
posted by quinndexter at 10:59 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
National Canadian shortage of fingernails in sight tomorrow. Holy crap that was intense and close.
I think I need to write a letter of apology to Binnington, I did not believe, but he was stellar.
This is a sideshow and solves nothing, but it’s ok to feel good for even a short while even if it’s for a silly reason.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:01 PM on February 20 [11 favorites]
I think I need to write a letter of apology to Binnington, I did not believe, but he was stellar.
This is a sideshow and solves nothing, but it’s ok to feel good for even a short while even if it’s for a silly reason.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:01 PM on February 20 [11 favorites]
Also can we strip Gretzky of its citizenship?
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:06 PM on February 20 [18 favorites]
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:06 PM on February 20 [18 favorites]
Wheel, Snipe, Celly! (everything I know about ice-hockey I learned from Letterkenny)
posted by phigmov at 11:30 PM on February 20 [7 favorites]
posted by phigmov at 11:30 PM on February 20 [7 favorites]
Some amazing goaltending from Canada's Binnington. One of the heroes, definitely.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:32 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:32 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
(everything I know about ice-hockey I learned from Letterkenny)
not to mention how to cook a steak
posted by philip-random at 11:33 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
Twitter @JustinTrudeau: You can't take our country - and you can't take our game.
If there's a silver lining to the disaster of Trump 2.0, it's how it seems to have blown up the (depressing) Canadian political landscape. I'm all for diplomacy, but I'm really happy to see the Liberal party taking off their kids gloves when handling Trump.
posted by Alex404 at 11:39 PM on February 20 [31 favorites]
If there's a silver lining to the disaster of Trump 2.0, it's how it seems to have blown up the (depressing) Canadian political landscape. I'm all for diplomacy, but I'm really happy to see the Liberal party taking off their kids gloves when handling Trump.
posted by Alex404 at 11:39 PM on February 20 [31 favorites]
Well done Canada, and well done spoiling the result. Can't be arsed to watch the game now.
posted by phax at 11:48 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
posted by phax at 11:48 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
The more tantrums Trump throws, the less likely it is that Poilievre forms the next government. So this is pleasing.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:50 PM on February 20 [23 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:50 PM on February 20 [23 favorites]
Icing on the cake is Austin Matthews blowing his coverage of McDavid and leaving him wide open. I don't follow hockey like I used to decades ago, but the old grudges die hard and I will always be a Leafs hater. Petty, yes, but so is threatening my fucking country with annexation.
I saw parts of the game while at work, missed the OT goal, but from what I saw it looks like a hell of a game.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 11:51 PM on February 20 [8 favorites]
I saw parts of the game while at work, missed the OT goal, but from what I saw it looks like a hell of a game.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 11:51 PM on February 20 [8 favorites]
KEEP YER STICK ON THE ICE
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 12:41 AM on February 21 [5 favorites]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 12:41 AM on February 21 [5 favorites]
I didn't realize that Austin Matthews was a yank. Until tonight. Here is my passport.
posted by Keith Talent at 1:49 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
posted by Keith Talent at 1:49 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
Also can we strip Gretzky of its citizenship?
Look at the man. He is already suffering and aging like Gollum while Mark Messier looks like he is 30 years old.
posted by srboisvert at 2:52 AM on February 21 [8 favorites]
Look at the man. He is already suffering and aging like Gollum while Mark Messier looks like he is 30 years old.
posted by srboisvert at 2:52 AM on February 21 [8 favorites]
It was an exciting game. Played like a game 7 of the Stanley Cup. Good clean fun. Congrats to Team Canada. Congrats to the NHL too.
I don't know, it seems to me that either Canadian hockey has slipped or USA hockey has come a long way. Where Canada once dominated the sport of hockey, the two games were pretty evenly matched. In fact, USA hockey outscored Canada over the two games.
I get that many saw this game as somehow a metaphor for the whole Trump annexation thing, but I can assure you that this will not stop Trump from trying to even the trade imbalance. Insanity is relentless. Prolly just put a bigger tariff on CCM or Bauer (Are they a Canadian company?).
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:58 AM on February 21 [6 favorites]
I don't know, it seems to me that either Canadian hockey has slipped or USA hockey has come a long way. Where Canada once dominated the sport of hockey, the two games were pretty evenly matched. In fact, USA hockey outscored Canada over the two games.
I get that many saw this game as somehow a metaphor for the whole Trump annexation thing, but I can assure you that this will not stop Trump from trying to even the trade imbalance. Insanity is relentless. Prolly just put a bigger tariff on CCM or Bauer (Are they a Canadian company?).
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:58 AM on February 21 [6 favorites]
I'd just like to point out that the first result in the Google search linked in the actual post is the actual post.
posted by signal at 3:35 AM on February 21 [10 favorites]
posted by signal at 3:35 AM on February 21 [10 favorites]
I get that many saw this game as somehow a metaphor for the whole Trump annexation thing, but I can assure you that this will not stop Trump from trying to even the trade imbalance.
We know.
Anyway. Great feeling. Also, passing strange how all these players go back to work this weekend.. Marner, Matthews.. Barkov, Tkachuk.. I think the intensity of the series surprised a few people (me) and I wonder if these guys can adjust back to club hockey within 48 hrs. How can we even go back to that Allstars stuff again
posted by ginger.beef at 4:33 AM on February 21 [4 favorites]
We know.
Anyway. Great feeling. Also, passing strange how all these players go back to work this weekend.. Marner, Matthews.. Barkov, Tkachuk.. I think the intensity of the series surprised a few people (me) and I wonder if these guys can adjust back to club hockey within 48 hrs. How can we even go back to that Allstars stuff again
posted by ginger.beef at 4:33 AM on February 21 [4 favorites]
it may not stop him, but it takes another thing away from him. if we take enough things away, one of these times, his heart will give out (won't solve the problem but it will bring a lot of joy).
and to answer JohnnyGunn... American hockey is that much better. Canadian teams struggle because of the dollar imbalance and the NHL not having (afair) revenue sharing.
ironically, the most socialist professional league is the NFL (as long as you ignore the ban on publicly owned teams).
posted by kokaku at 4:39 AM on February 21 [2 favorites]
and to answer JohnnyGunn... American hockey is that much better. Canadian teams struggle because of the dollar imbalance and the NHL not having (afair) revenue sharing.
ironically, the most socialist professional league is the NFL (as long as you ignore the ban on publicly owned teams).
posted by kokaku at 4:39 AM on February 21 [2 favorites]
I'm just happy that the Tkachuck assholes didn't win. After all that ill will that they created during the first USA/Canada game, in the end, they are just a couple of losers.
posted by NoMich at 4:48 AM on February 21 [4 favorites]
posted by NoMich at 4:48 AM on February 21 [4 favorites]
Also can we strip Gretzky of its citizenship?
Nah, we need him to still be Canadian when the treason trials start. Musk too.
posted by senor biggles at 5:07 AM on February 21 [2 favorites]
Nah, we need him to still be Canadian when the treason trials start. Musk too.
posted by senor biggles at 5:07 AM on February 21 [2 favorites]
Nah, they’re fine, just continuing the family and hockey tradition and frankly, they set the tone of the games. The 4 Nations was more fun than I expected and so was the hockey! I also love the fact that it they approached this like a finals game 7.
posted by ashbury at 5:08 AM on February 21
posted by ashbury at 5:08 AM on February 21
Superb level of play and it was amazing seeing the sheer Canadian star power on ice at the same time. Fck the Tkachuks, Miller, Hanafin and the rest.
posted by runincircles at 5:10 AM on February 21
posted by runincircles at 5:10 AM on February 21
I get that many saw this game as somehow a metaphor for the whole Trump annexation thing, but I can assure you that this will not stop Trump from trying to even the trade imbalance. Insanity is relentless. Prolly just put a bigger tariff on CCM or Bauer (Are they a Canadian company?).
Again, I firmly believe the US will tear itself apart in a civil war before Canada can get annexed. But -- this is not that thread. This is a "suck it America" thread.
So: SUCK IT AMERICA
posted by Kitteh at 5:15 AM on February 21 [29 favorites]
Again, I firmly believe the US will tear itself apart in a civil war before Canada can get annexed. But -- this is not that thread. This is a "suck it America" thread.
So: SUCK IT AMERICA
posted by Kitteh at 5:15 AM on February 21 [29 favorites]
Icing on the cake is Austin Matthews blowing his coverage of McDavid and leaving him wide open.
My thought exactly. It was an egregious defensive mistake to leave him so open right in front of the goal. (It was a beaut of a shot too.) I had no bone in the fight (aww, my poor Sweden), but it felt like a just outcome with additional funny spin based on :gestures: all this.
It was definitely a more intense tourney than I expected. So many injuries. I wonder if the NHL teams will allow something like this again, given its potential negative impact on the clubs. The All Star game is a bit of fun and levity to break up the season. A few days of hanging out and playing a bit with your peers. This tournament was not that at all, it felt way more serious. The players rose to the occasion, and it turned into much more than just a bit of fun.
posted by gemmy at 5:20 AM on February 21 [6 favorites]
My thought exactly. It was an egregious defensive mistake to leave him so open right in front of the goal. (It was a beaut of a shot too.) I had no bone in the fight (aww, my poor Sweden), but it felt like a just outcome with additional funny spin based on :gestures: all this.
It was definitely a more intense tourney than I expected. So many injuries. I wonder if the NHL teams will allow something like this again, given its potential negative impact on the clubs. The All Star game is a bit of fun and levity to break up the season. A few days of hanging out and playing a bit with your peers. This tournament was not that at all, it felt way more serious. The players rose to the occasion, and it turned into much more than just a bit of fun.
posted by gemmy at 5:20 AM on February 21 [6 favorites]
Another win for Trump. He made me care about the outcome of a hockey game. GO CANADA! Also fuck that guy. Sorry for the swearing.
posted by exolstice at 5:20 AM on February 21 [6 favorites]
posted by exolstice at 5:20 AM on February 21 [6 favorites]
Wheel, Snipe, Celly! (everything I know about ice-hockey I learned from Letterkenny)
Please tell me you've watched Shorsey. Jared Keeso is amazingly talented.
posted by JoeZydeco at 5:35 AM on February 21 [7 favorites]
Please tell me you've watched Shorsey. Jared Keeso is amazingly talented.
posted by JoeZydeco at 5:35 AM on February 21 [7 favorites]
Every time they cut to a shot of the American bench, I got pissed at the assholes wearing MAGA hats and flag capes mugging for the cameras. But I also noticed, these dipshits paid well in excess of $3k each for front row seats at this game, and… they spent the entire time staring at their phones? Fuckin’ losers.
2010 still stings because I wanted to see my college team’s goalie win a gold medal. Alas, was not to be. Last night, I just enjoyed some good hockey, and knowing that the imbecile running my country would be pissed at the result made it even better. Frankly would have been conflicted seeing USA win, even though as a Wings fan I was rooting for Dylan Larkin. Canada with the OT win? I’m good with that outcome.
Congrats Canada, stay classy, and if I get fired from my federal job please consider looking at my resume thx
posted by caution live frogs at 5:44 AM on February 21 [7 favorites]
2010 still stings because I wanted to see my college team’s goalie win a gold medal. Alas, was not to be. Last night, I just enjoyed some good hockey, and knowing that the imbecile running my country would be pissed at the result made it even better. Frankly would have been conflicted seeing USA win, even though as a Wings fan I was rooting for Dylan Larkin. Canada with the OT win? I’m good with that outcome.
Congrats Canada, stay classy, and if I get fired from my federal job please consider looking at my resume thx
posted by caution live frogs at 5:44 AM on February 21 [7 favorites]
As a Hurricanes fan, I had to chuckle at the lousy timing of having Fox (demanded a trade to the Rangers after being drafted by the Hurricanes) and Hanifin (former Hurricanes who was pretty good, but at times a liability on the ice) as the US defensive pairing on the ice during the goal. If Jaccob Slavin was out there, none of that game winning goal nonsense would've happened.
posted by NoMich at 5:53 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
posted by NoMich at 5:53 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
I get that many saw this game as somehow a metaphor for the whole Trump annexation thing, but I can assure you that this will not stop Trump from trying to even the trade imbalance. Insanity is relentless.
No, but politics is, as we've seen, about the hearts and minds of the populace. And in Canada right now we are facing two competing narratives:
Canada is broken: Rip apart the social supports, downsize government and trash the CBC and other Canadian institutions, and ride the wave of right-wing populism
Canada is smart and capable: Get CERB-equivalent payments out to industries that will be impacted, build infrastructure (and for me honestly I think we should start building up our military for a variety of reasons and also make it a climate-change response team), tighten our belts so that the fortunate of us who keep our jobs pay a bit more to support everyone else because that is Canadian.
A win is very important in that context. The people who watch hockey cut across most of the political spectrum and these are our national opportunitites to make the case that Canada, itself, and Canadian values, themselves, stand. Sometimes those suck; we invented - INVENTED - residential schools. But we also did some -- not enough, not all -- of the work of reconciliation and my kids have gotten a much better education.
Anyways, go Canada.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:57 AM on February 21 [30 favorites]
No, but politics is, as we've seen, about the hearts and minds of the populace. And in Canada right now we are facing two competing narratives:
Canada is broken: Rip apart the social supports, downsize government and trash the CBC and other Canadian institutions, and ride the wave of right-wing populism
Canada is smart and capable: Get CERB-equivalent payments out to industries that will be impacted, build infrastructure (and for me honestly I think we should start building up our military for a variety of reasons and also make it a climate-change response team), tighten our belts so that the fortunate of us who keep our jobs pay a bit more to support everyone else because that is Canadian.
A win is very important in that context. The people who watch hockey cut across most of the political spectrum and these are our national opportunitites to make the case that Canada, itself, and Canadian values, themselves, stand. Sometimes those suck; we invented - INVENTED - residential schools. But we also did some -- not enough, not all -- of the work of reconciliation and my kids have gotten a much better education.
Anyways, go Canada.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:57 AM on February 21 [30 favorites]
Also, in case you missed it (source: BlogTO, I admit, I love this stupid little blog):
"I’ll be calling our GREAT American Hockey Team this morning to spur them on towards victory tonight against Canada, which with FAR LOWER TAXES AND MUCH STRONGER SECURITY, will someday, maybe soon, become our cherished, and very important, Fifty First State,” Trump wrote. “I will be speaking before the Governors tonight in D.C., and will sadly, therefore, be unable to attend. But we will all be watching, and if Governor Trudeau would like to join us, he would be most welcome. Good luck to everybody, and have a GREAT game tonight. So exciting!”"
posted by warriorqueen at 6:00 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
"I’ll be calling our GREAT American Hockey Team this morning to spur them on towards victory tonight against Canada, which with FAR LOWER TAXES AND MUCH STRONGER SECURITY, will someday, maybe soon, become our cherished, and very important, Fifty First State,” Trump wrote. “I will be speaking before the Governors tonight in D.C., and will sadly, therefore, be unable to attend. But we will all be watching, and if Governor Trudeau would like to join us, he would be most welcome. Good luck to everybody, and have a GREAT game tonight. So exciting!”"
posted by warriorqueen at 6:00 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
Binnington: Vindicated!
It was not clear we had the goaltending that would get us to a win, until it was perfectly clear. Those last few saves, wow.
Yeah, JohnnyGunn in addition to the needless reality check you're asking whether USA hockey is at an elevated level or Canadian hockey is slipping? I'm not sure that a country cares more about hockey than Canada, but the whole idea over the past few decades is to elevate the level of the game. Look at Latvia in the recent World Juniors, look at Germany coming up the ranks. It takes time. Compare the populations of USA and Canada, and more importantly the money. Compare the take-home pay of an Ottawa Senator vs. a Florida Panther.
Anyhow, I'm probably the single person in this thread to feel like your comment is a fly in the ointment and I will quietly return to enjoying the feeling from last night's win. Wearing a classic 1972 Team Canada jersey today, same one I wore yesterday and same one I'll wear during tomorrow's skate at an outdoor rink. Then it's Oilers vs. Flyers and the grind of the remaining regular season to playoffs!
posted by ginger.beef at 6:04 AM on February 21 [10 favorites]
It was not clear we had the goaltending that would get us to a win, until it was perfectly clear. Those last few saves, wow.
Yeah, JohnnyGunn in addition to the needless reality check you're asking whether USA hockey is at an elevated level or Canadian hockey is slipping? I'm not sure that a country cares more about hockey than Canada, but the whole idea over the past few decades is to elevate the level of the game. Look at Latvia in the recent World Juniors, look at Germany coming up the ranks. It takes time. Compare the populations of USA and Canada, and more importantly the money. Compare the take-home pay of an Ottawa Senator vs. a Florida Panther.
Anyhow, I'm probably the single person in this thread to feel like your comment is a fly in the ointment and I will quietly return to enjoying the feeling from last night's win. Wearing a classic 1972 Team Canada jersey today, same one I wore yesterday and same one I'll wear during tomorrow's skate at an outdoor rink. Then it's Oilers vs. Flyers and the grind of the remaining regular season to playoffs!
posted by ginger.beef at 6:04 AM on February 21 [10 favorites]
"It was cool to get the call," said U.S. defenceman Noah Hanifin. "Hopefully we can get the win tonight for our country and for Trump."
I disliked him wearing the Calgary Flames jersey much like a person isn't happy to bump their elbow and get that tingly feeling. People just don't like that feeling. But what a bootlicking quote. I hope Mark Stone takes an enormous shit in Hanifin's equipment cubby when they get back to Vegas.
posted by ginger.beef at 6:30 AM on February 21 [7 favorites]
I disliked him wearing the Calgary Flames jersey much like a person isn't happy to bump their elbow and get that tingly feeling. People just don't like that feeling. But what a bootlicking quote. I hope Mark Stone takes an enormous shit in Hanifin's equipment cubby when they get back to Vegas.
posted by ginger.beef at 6:30 AM on February 21 [7 favorites]
Yes, thanks for the mayonnaise hockey commentary JohnnyGunn.
posted by brachiopod at 6:30 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
posted by brachiopod at 6:30 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
I'd just like to point out that the first result in the Google search linked in the actual post is the actual post.
Hits the post!
posted by Kabanos at 6:38 AM on February 21 [9 favorites]
Hits the post!
posted by Kabanos at 6:38 AM on February 21 [9 favorites]
I don't want to say I favorited this post for its title alone BUT l like big buts and cannot lie: GREAT TITLE.
posted by y2karl at 6:40 AM on February 21 [4 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 6:40 AM on February 21 [4 favorites]
(everything I know about ice-hockey I learned from Letterkenny)
Knew how the game had gone when i heard my partner yell from the next room GIVE YER BALLS A TUG
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:46 AM on February 21 [7 favorites]
Knew how the game had gone when i heard my partner yell from the next room GIVE YER BALLS A TUG
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:46 AM on February 21 [7 favorites]
Amazing game. Really happy for McDavid, happy for Crosby, happy for Canada.
For the US, Slavin was incredible. Guentzel played super well. Much as I hate them the Tkachuk brothers played well (and it's a real shame Matthew was hurt, and McAvoy too).
Stellar goalie play both ways.
And as a Penguins fan I can't even imagine knowing how Sullivan felt coaching the US and watching his club's star player on the other side of the ice (with an elbow so hurt he couldn't really shoot per ESPN commentary!??!)
Olympics next year are gonna be amazing
posted by jermsplan at 7:03 AM on February 21 [4 favorites]
For the US, Slavin was incredible. Guentzel played super well. Much as I hate them the Tkachuk brothers played well (and it's a real shame Matthew was hurt, and McAvoy too).
Stellar goalie play both ways.
And as a Penguins fan I can't even imagine knowing how Sullivan felt coaching the US and watching his club's star player on the other side of the ice (with an elbow so hurt he couldn't really shoot per ESPN commentary!??!)
Olympics next year are gonna be amazing
posted by jermsplan at 7:03 AM on February 21 [4 favorites]
I believe the most elegant bit of Canadian patriotism to be found on Reddit after the win was the comment, "11th province bitches suck my nuts USA".
There was also the vulgar, "Maple syrup is coming out of every orifice of my body."
posted by clawsoon at 12:45 AM on February 21
I'm starting to think that Benedict Arnold might have had a point...
posted by Reverend John at 7:18 AM on February 21
There was also the vulgar, "Maple syrup is coming out of every orifice of my body."
posted by clawsoon at 12:45 AM on February 21
I'm starting to think that Benedict Arnold might have had a point...
posted by Reverend John at 7:18 AM on February 21
It was definitely a more intense tourney than I expected. So many injuries. I wonder if the NHL teams will allow something like this again, given its potential negative impact on the clubs.
I think the mistake was sending the refs set on the 'playoff' setting (ie short of stabbing an opponent with your skate nothing gets called). Maybe set them on 'olympic' setting next time.
I think they'll do it again, it was a huge visibility success in the end the NHL is a money making enterprise that doesn't care about hockey or the players, or Canada.
In closing, fuck Bettman.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:21 AM on February 21 [10 favorites]
I think the mistake was sending the refs set on the 'playoff' setting (ie short of stabbing an opponent with your skate nothing gets called). Maybe set them on 'olympic' setting next time.
I think they'll do it again, it was a huge visibility success in the end the NHL is a money making enterprise that doesn't care about hockey or the players, or Canada.
In closing, fuck Bettman.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:21 AM on February 21 [10 favorites]
I watched parts of the first two periods, and the entire 3rd and OT.
It was a pretty amazing game. Binnington was just great, and Slavin was incredible.
Well done Canada!
posted by Windopaene at 7:33 AM on February 21
It was a pretty amazing game. Binnington was just great, and Slavin was incredible.
Well done Canada!
posted by Windopaene at 7:33 AM on February 21
Benedict Arnold might have had a point...
The Whitehouse is unburnt this morning. DJT, however may wish for some salve, after choosing to match words with Trudeau.
posted by bonehead at 7:54 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
The Whitehouse is unburnt this morning. DJT, however may wish for some salve, after choosing to match words with Trudeau.
posted by bonehead at 7:54 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
The WaPo's column on the game is pretty good, and notes the parallel to the 2010 Olympic final. Gift link.
posted by martin q blank at 7:59 AM on February 21
posted by martin q blank at 7:59 AM on February 21
American hockey is that much better. Canadian teams struggle because of the dollar imbalance and the NHL not having (afair) revenue sharing.
I needed to address this comment:
1 - Where an NHL team is located has no link to the nationalities of its players
2 - The dollar imbalance is a problem, yes, but the most valuable franchise is located in Canada, as are two of the top 3 and three of the top 6. Toronto and Montreal throw off money like a Zamboni-drive geyser, and they prop up a sizable number of small market NHL teams through revenue sharing (note: I am a fan of one of those small market US teams).
3 - USA hockey has gotten better because the USA Hockey Development Program is serious about nuturing talent, and offers tools not available in Canada, where kids do not pass through any national development program and instead play professionally under the CHL banner leagues.
4 - Canada has also gotten worse, because the QJMHL stopped spitting out amazing goaltenders about 15 years ago, and can no longer be leaned on as a crutch by a national program that has no concrete strategy for positional development that leads to elite netminders.
5 - The USA has, in contrast, made goalie development a priority.
6. The population of the US dwarfs that of Canada. It was only a matter of time before all of the youth hockey programs that follow NHL expansion teams into their respective cities began to draw in greater and greater numbers of kids to the sport. It's a numbers game, and the USA will win that numbers game, especially given how serious they are about developing their athletes.
posted by jordantwodelta at 8:14 AM on February 21 [14 favorites]
I needed to address this comment:
1 - Where an NHL team is located has no link to the nationalities of its players
2 - The dollar imbalance is a problem, yes, but the most valuable franchise is located in Canada, as are two of the top 3 and three of the top 6. Toronto and Montreal throw off money like a Zamboni-drive geyser, and they prop up a sizable number of small market NHL teams through revenue sharing (note: I am a fan of one of those small market US teams).
3 - USA hockey has gotten better because the USA Hockey Development Program is serious about nuturing talent, and offers tools not available in Canada, where kids do not pass through any national development program and instead play professionally under the CHL banner leagues.
4 - Canada has also gotten worse, because the QJMHL stopped spitting out amazing goaltenders about 15 years ago, and can no longer be leaned on as a crutch by a national program that has no concrete strategy for positional development that leads to elite netminders.
5 - The USA has, in contrast, made goalie development a priority.
6. The population of the US dwarfs that of Canada. It was only a matter of time before all of the youth hockey programs that follow NHL expansion teams into their respective cities began to draw in greater and greater numbers of kids to the sport. It's a numbers game, and the USA will win that numbers game, especially given how serious they are about developing their athletes.
posted by jordantwodelta at 8:14 AM on February 21 [14 favorites]
Re: Crosby & US/Canadian relations
I was at the first Penguins game after Crosby scored the GWG for Canada against team USA. The Penguins were playing the Sabres, my sad #1 franchise, the goaltender Ryan Miller for Team USA letting in the Crosby goal.
Penguins fans were BOOING Crosby because he scored that goal against team USA, and cheered for Miller. It was…….odd, and dumb.
Even dumber: The number of Yinzers who said, “Crosby needs to understand WHO pays his salary!”
Um, it was a Canadian, Mario Lemieux, who owned the Pens at the time.
US stupidity is such a grand, ongoing tradition, even when it comes to hockey.
As a Buffalonian, I have great love and respect for Canada. I’m horrified by where we are right now and proudly cheered for Canada last night.
What a game.
posted by glaucon at 8:15 AM on February 21 [8 favorites]
I was at the first Penguins game after Crosby scored the GWG for Canada against team USA. The Penguins were playing the Sabres, my sad #1 franchise, the goaltender Ryan Miller for Team USA letting in the Crosby goal.
Penguins fans were BOOING Crosby because he scored that goal against team USA, and cheered for Miller. It was…….odd, and dumb.
Even dumber: The number of Yinzers who said, “Crosby needs to understand WHO pays his salary!”
Um, it was a Canadian, Mario Lemieux, who owned the Pens at the time.
US stupidity is such a grand, ongoing tradition, even when it comes to hockey.
As a Buffalonian, I have great love and respect for Canada. I’m horrified by where we are right now and proudly cheered for Canada last night.
What a game.
posted by glaucon at 8:15 AM on February 21 [8 favorites]
Two very good teams played exciting hockey, and for me that's the point. Everything else we've heaped on the series is unfortunate. But cathartic, I guess. Once upon a time, international sports meets bolstered the friendship between nations.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:19 AM on February 21 [2 favorites]
posted by Artful Codger at 8:19 AM on February 21 [2 favorites]
Forgot to include a link in my original comment, and edit window is closed, but for those curious as to how America has stepped up player development, you can read a good Sportsnet story about it here.
posted by jordantwodelta at 8:21 AM on February 21 [2 favorites]
posted by jordantwodelta at 8:21 AM on February 21 [2 favorites]
4 - Canada has also gotten worse, because the QJMHL stopped spitting out amazing goaltenders about 15 years ago, and can no longer be leaned on as a crutch by a national program that has no concrete strategy for positional development that leads to elite netminders.
Maybe more of a case of we started exporting goalie coaches. And Jesus Price was from BC it's not only Qc.
2 - The dollar imbalance is a problem, yes, but the most valuable franchise is located in Canada, as are two of the top 3 and three of the top 6. Toronto and Montreal throw off money like a Zamboni-drive geyser, and they prop up a sizable number of small market NHL teams through revenue sharing (note: I am a fan of one of those small market US teams).
For Canadian markets tax rate is an issue with free agents signings, I really wished the cap was ajusted to reflect that, US teams go further with their cap dollars vs Canadian teams when it's timed to attract free agents.
Also there's a ton more pressure for a Canadian team to not suck and go through a rebuild so they often take shortcuts.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:31 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
Maybe more of a case of we started exporting goalie coaches. And Jesus Price was from BC it's not only Qc.
2 - The dollar imbalance is a problem, yes, but the most valuable franchise is located in Canada, as are two of the top 3 and three of the top 6. Toronto and Montreal throw off money like a Zamboni-drive geyser, and they prop up a sizable number of small market NHL teams through revenue sharing (note: I am a fan of one of those small market US teams).
For Canadian markets tax rate is an issue with free agents signings, I really wished the cap was ajusted to reflect that, US teams go further with their cap dollars vs Canadian teams when it's timed to attract free agents.
Also there's a ton more pressure for a Canadian team to not suck and go through a rebuild so they often take shortcuts.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:31 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
For Canadian markets tax rate is an issue with free agents signings, I really wished the cap was ajusted to reflect that, US teams go further with their cap dollars vs Canadian teams when it's timed to attract free agents.
I'm not disputing that - but it has no impact on international hockey, or either of Canada or the USA's national team programs.
posted by jordantwodelta at 8:34 AM on February 21
I'm not disputing that - but it has no impact on international hockey, or either of Canada or the USA's national team programs.
posted by jordantwodelta at 8:34 AM on February 21
I might also add, hockey development in Canada sucks. There, I said it.
We coasted for a long time on the sheer enthusiasm we have for it, but our structures suck.
I don't even care about international honors and elite players, I want a more democratized participation in the sport with youth leagues parents aren't running away from because they're a cesspool of malignant adult conduct.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:35 AM on February 21 [6 favorites]
We coasted for a long time on the sheer enthusiasm we have for it, but our structures suck.
I don't even care about international honors and elite players, I want a more democratized participation in the sport with youth leagues parents aren't running away from because they're a cesspool of malignant adult conduct.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:35 AM on February 21 [6 favorites]
I'm not disputing that - but it has no impact on international hockey, or either of Canada or the USA's national team programs.
100% sorry I thought we were talking about the NHL and the current Canadian cup drought.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:36 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
100% sorry I thought we were talking about the NHL and the current Canadian cup drought.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:36 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
Was a great game; well played, intense, and at least from my end the right team won.
My son's hockey team took over a corner of a local pub to watch the game together last night, and a few of us talked about the weirdness of this moment - a game against the US that was important not just for bragging rights, but because there was a sense of larger, political implications present. But it was amazing to see how much a sporting event brings unity and togetherness in a pub full of different groups - I saw lots of small acts of kindness and fellowship between the patrons, not just our team. People were friendly and helpful to the servers, each other, and chatted with complete strangers in ways you don't usually see.
Once upon a time, international sports meets bolstered the friendship between nations.
They can, and they can also be a part of the ongoing friction and hostility between two nations (cf. the 1972 Canada-USSR Summit Series). I'm sure there are people out there a lot more informed on the subject of sport and politics and how it can be used to both improve relations or feed into existing anger than I am.
Also there's a ton more pressure for a Canadian team to not suck and go through a rebuild so they often take shortcuts.
I listened to a good debate over whether or not it's better to draft high for a few years, or go after talent after they've proven themselves capable of playing at a high level in the NHL. Not sure which side I agree with, but it was an interesting question because there is a number of players who go in the top ten each draft year who don't amount to much - it's not just being able to draft high, the team has to be capable of developing the player as well.
posted by nubs at 8:47 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
My son's hockey team took over a corner of a local pub to watch the game together last night, and a few of us talked about the weirdness of this moment - a game against the US that was important not just for bragging rights, but because there was a sense of larger, political implications present. But it was amazing to see how much a sporting event brings unity and togetherness in a pub full of different groups - I saw lots of small acts of kindness and fellowship between the patrons, not just our team. People were friendly and helpful to the servers, each other, and chatted with complete strangers in ways you don't usually see.
Once upon a time, international sports meets bolstered the friendship between nations.
They can, and they can also be a part of the ongoing friction and hostility between two nations (cf. the 1972 Canada-USSR Summit Series). I'm sure there are people out there a lot more informed on the subject of sport and politics and how it can be used to both improve relations or feed into existing anger than I am.
Also there's a ton more pressure for a Canadian team to not suck and go through a rebuild so they often take shortcuts.
I listened to a good debate over whether or not it's better to draft high for a few years, or go after talent after they've proven themselves capable of playing at a high level in the NHL. Not sure which side I agree with, but it was an interesting question because there is a number of players who go in the top ten each draft year who don't amount to much - it's not just being able to draft high, the team has to be capable of developing the player as well.
posted by nubs at 8:47 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
I listened to a good debate over whether or not it's better to draft high for a few years, or go after talent after they've proven themselves capable of playing at a high level in the NHL. Not sure which side I agree with, but it was an interesting question because there is a number of players who go in the top ten each draft year who don't amount to much - it's not just being able to draft high, the team has to be capable of developing the player as well.
Drafting kids at 18 and trying to project their development is hard. If the draft was held at 19 or 20, there would be far fewer miss. The international aspect is also complicated, the league you play in and the strength of that league that year have huge impact on what a player's numbers mean.
On top of that you need to adjust for shift in the game and refs. Early 2000 hockey would not be kind to players like Cole Caufield, Lane Hutson or Cale Makar. In fact, it's still a huge bias, Hutson was picked in 2nd round, even Montreal is probably picking him ahead of Slafkovský if that draft is redone. So picks that look like good/bad fits can see their value change with years.
Each player you draft and develop yourself ends up costing you a lot less than overpaying them trough free agency. Using offer sheets on RFA just nukes your ability to draft good prospects by giving up picks.
For depth players though, a good professional scouting department is probably better than trying to acquire them at the draft.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:00 AM on February 21
Drafting kids at 18 and trying to project their development is hard. If the draft was held at 19 or 20, there would be far fewer miss. The international aspect is also complicated, the league you play in and the strength of that league that year have huge impact on what a player's numbers mean.
On top of that you need to adjust for shift in the game and refs. Early 2000 hockey would not be kind to players like Cole Caufield, Lane Hutson or Cale Makar. In fact, it's still a huge bias, Hutson was picked in 2nd round, even Montreal is probably picking him ahead of Slafkovský if that draft is redone. So picks that look like good/bad fits can see their value change with years.
Each player you draft and develop yourself ends up costing you a lot less than overpaying them trough free agency. Using offer sheets on RFA just nukes your ability to draft good prospects by giving up picks.
For depth players though, a good professional scouting department is probably better than trying to acquire them at the draft.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:00 AM on February 21
As a life-long St Louis Blues fan, I was desperate for Binnington to be vindicated. He's won so many games for us, and is ice cold in Winner Take All games (Dallas '19 Game 7, Boston for the Cup, this game).
Also, fuck every single trash American who wore a MAGA hat to the game.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:31 AM on February 21 [7 favorites]
Also, fuck every single trash American who wore a MAGA hat to the game.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:31 AM on February 21 [7 favorites]
3 - USA hockey has gotten better because the USA Hockey Development Program is serious about nuturing talent, and offers tools not available in Canada, where kids do not pass through any national development program and instead play professionally under the CHL banner leagues.
yeah, it's been a slow moving failure at the development level here in Canada. More and more, if your parents ain't rich (or willing to seriously sacrifice the family finances), you as a nine-ten-eleven year old kid just aren't going to have an even chance out there, or any chance at all really. It has become very expensive to play kid's hockey.
So USA immediately have us beat on that level. But then why does Finland do so well comparatively? Could there be something rotten at the heart of Hockey Canada?
posted by philip-random at 10:32 AM on February 21 [3 favorites]
The spanish speaking commentator is on fire....
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/mcdavid-overtime-winner-canada-spanish
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:05 PM on February 21 [3 favorites]
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/mcdavid-overtime-winner-canada-spanish
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:05 PM on February 21 [3 favorites]
I went to bed after the first period last night, so this morning was a very pleasant one. What a depressing shitshow the insertion of current politics was in the tournament, I would so much rather have had this be ignored by the president, and blame the USA GM for dragging his attention to it. Fuck you Guerin! And give me back the Deweys on the Wild while you're at it!
Also when it comes to deprecating Gretzky or any other individual player for their conservatism, let's just all admit that there are no angels here. Your favorite player is more likely to be awful than not! Best case scenario for a marquee player is Crosby, whose media training is so airtight that he might step on puppies recreationally and nobody will ever know. I don't want to know his political opinions!!!!!!!! I just want to see him play!
Also can you believe the regular season is back tomorrow. The Caps are going to win the Cup because all their players got 2 weeks off while this ridiculous tournament injured everyone else.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 12:20 PM on February 21
Also when it comes to deprecating Gretzky or any other individual player for their conservatism, let's just all admit that there are no angels here. Your favorite player is more likely to be awful than not! Best case scenario for a marquee player is Crosby, whose media training is so airtight that he might step on puppies recreationally and nobody will ever know. I don't want to know his political opinions!!!!!!!! I just want to see him play!
Also can you believe the regular season is back tomorrow. The Caps are going to win the Cup because all their players got 2 weeks off while this ridiculous tournament injured everyone else.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 12:20 PM on February 21
Also when it comes to deprecating Gretzky or any other individual player for their conservatism, let's just all admit that there are no angels here. Your favorite player is more likely to be awful than not!
There's Conservative and there's I'm prancing around Maralago with my MAGA hat.
I'm very aware a lot/most hockey players skew conservative in their views.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:24 PM on February 21 [6 favorites]
There's Conservative and there's I'm prancing around Maralago with my MAGA hat.
I'm very aware a lot/most hockey players skew conservative in their views.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:24 PM on February 21 [6 favorites]
The Good:
Pretty sure we get California now. Those are the rules.
The Bad:
Fair chance the tariffs on Canadian goods will be like 75% now :(
The Aftermath:
Petition to rename "Wayne Gretzky Drive" in Edmonton to "Wayne Gretzky Sucks Drive"
posted by mazola at 12:25 PM on February 21 [7 favorites]
Pretty sure we get California now. Those are the rules.
The Bad:
Fair chance the tariffs on Canadian goods will be like 75% now :(
The Aftermath:
Petition to rename "Wayne Gretzky Drive" in Edmonton to "Wayne Gretzky Sucks Drive"
posted by mazola at 12:25 PM on February 21 [7 favorites]
Da, Da, Ca-na-da!
Nyet, Nyet, Trumpy threat!
posted by Kabanos at 12:28 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
Nyet, Nyet, Trumpy threat!
posted by Kabanos at 12:28 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
Nah, we need him to still be Canadian when the treason trials start. Musk too.
The statute of limitation for treason is only 3 years. Yes, I've already brought it up in a letter to parliament, have you all?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:21 PM on February 21
The statute of limitation for treason is only 3 years. Yes, I've already brought it up in a letter to parliament, have you all?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:21 PM on February 21
I'm still annoyed that they named Gretzky the honourary captain when Haley Wickenheiser would've respected the team and the country so much more!
posted by peppermind at 4:06 PM on February 21 [7 favorites]
posted by peppermind at 4:06 PM on February 21 [7 favorites]
So many injuries. I wonder if the NHL teams will allow something like this again, given its potential negative impact on the clubs.
That was an issue with the PWHL and the international break, as well. More international play and longer PWHL seasons are great but they will be better when the player conditioning catches up to the increased demands made on players' bodies these days.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:23 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
That was an issue with the PWHL and the international break, as well. More international play and longer PWHL seasons are great but they will be better when the player conditioning catches up to the increased demands made on players' bodies these days.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:23 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
The Good:
Pretty sure we get California now. Those are the rules.
The Bad:
Fair chance the tariffs on Canadian goods will be like 75% now :(
Pretty sure there are a lot of Trump USA supporters that would happily give Canada California even if the USA won.
#LGR
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:56 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
Pretty sure we get California now. Those are the rules.
The Bad:
Fair chance the tariffs on Canadian goods will be like 75% now :(
Pretty sure there are a lot of Trump USA supporters that would happily give Canada California even if the USA won.
#LGR
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:56 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
The Beavorton has some rock-solid reporting on the game.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:42 PM on February 21 [2 favorites]
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:42 PM on February 21 [2 favorites]
I am pleased to think that what all you guys know about hockey is so massively dwarfed on an interplanetary if not interstellar if not cosmic scale of what I don't. Carry on.
posted by y2karl at 3:12 PM on February 22 [1 favorite]
posted by y2karl at 3:12 PM on February 22 [1 favorite]
you're supposed to score more goals than the other team
sometimes fights break out because it can get intense
it gets played on ice
posted by philip-random at 3:42 PM on February 22 [2 favorites]
sometimes fights break out because it can get intense
it gets played on ice
posted by philip-random at 3:42 PM on February 22 [2 favorites]
I'm still annoyed that they named Gretzky the honourary captain when Haley Wickenheiser would've respected the team and the country so much more!
Why Gretzky's legacy just became more complicated for some Edmontonians
Gretzky’s Canadian loyalty questioned after 4 Nations final
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:31 PM on February 24 [2 favorites]
Why Gretzky's legacy just became more complicated for some Edmontonians
Gretzky’s Canadian loyalty questioned after 4 Nations final
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:31 PM on February 24 [2 favorites]
I missed Gretzky exiting onto the ice and thumbs upping the Team USA bench like that.. the fevered, paranoid part of my brain feels like that was the one specific thing he had to do, the thing he was told to do, because fuck him forever.
He has Ukrainian ancestry. Take a good look at this guy, because if you ever wondered what someone would do to sell off their name, their legacy, their ancestral roots, then take Gretzky as a 21st century version of the Faustian bargain.
Long Live Super Mario
posted by ginger.beef at 4:29 PM on February 24
He has Ukrainian ancestry. Take a good look at this guy, because if you ever wondered what someone would do to sell off their name, their legacy, their ancestral roots, then take Gretzky as a 21st century version of the Faustian bargain.
Long Live Super Mario
posted by ginger.beef at 4:29 PM on February 24
I hate to tell you but Mario is implicated in a teammate’s sexual assault, and also has minimized the assault by a player drafted to the Penguins. There’s a whole chunk of his wikipedia page dedicated to these two stories as well as allegations of the coverup of another sexual assault. He’s a great player but I am not super cool with him.
Hockey culture is rape culture, basically. I am not sure whether Lemieux is especially gross or if this is just the baseline and we don’t hear about most of it.
Anyway, Jonny Merrill just started an org to help combat bullying in hockey! He’s a streaky defenseman but a reliable LGBTQ+ ally!
posted by Lawn Beaver at 5:19 PM on February 24 [2 favorites]
Hockey culture is rape culture, basically. I am not sure whether Lemieux is especially gross or if this is just the baseline and we don’t hear about most of it.
Anyway, Jonny Merrill just started an org to help combat bullying in hockey! He’s a streaky defenseman but a reliable LGBTQ+ ally!
posted by Lawn Beaver at 5:19 PM on February 24 [2 favorites]
Argh Lawn Beaver
But you're right. It's a beautiful game and increasingly the only people who can afford to play and watch it are the ones who can afford to, and here we are
posted by ginger.beef at 6:31 PM on February 24 [1 favorite]
But you're right. It's a beautiful game and increasingly the only people who can afford to play and watch it are the ones who can afford to, and here we are
posted by ginger.beef at 6:31 PM on February 24 [1 favorite]
NHL level hockey is expensive to watch, but the PWHL is pretty exciting and about $30 a game for tickets if you are lucky enough to live near a team. If you are in the US, you can watch the games for free on YouTube, as well. In Canada, unfortunately, the broadcast rights are a bit fractured and annoying.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:24 AM on February 25 [1 favorite]
posted by jacquilynne at 7:24 AM on February 25 [1 favorite]
if you are lucky enough to live near a team
waiting for an Edmonton franchise
posted by ginger.beef at 7:39 AM on February 26
waiting for an Edmonton franchise
posted by ginger.beef at 7:39 AM on February 26
Expansion decision is said to be announced in the next month or two but I wouldn't hold out a ton of hope for Western teams because of travel costs and travel time. That said, they didn't test a lot of non-Western Canadian teams and although Quebec wants the team pretty badly, it is hard to say if they are a desirable market given that anyone who would support their team probably already supports La Victoire.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:57 AM on February 26
posted by jacquilynne at 8:57 AM on February 26
Why is Trump doing damage control for Wayne Gretzky? (CBC)
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:36 PM on February 28
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:36 PM on February 28
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posted by NotLost at 10:39 PM on February 20 [11 favorites]