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March 19, 2025 10:45 AM Subscribe
The history of the pig is the history of humanity. The Book of Leviticus contains a warning that the pig “is impure to you; from their flesh, you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch.” And yet … pigs were consumed by ancient peoples despite the prohibitions. So, why the animosity toward the unholiest (or holiest, for some) form of meat? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So, why the animosity toward the unholiest (or holiest, for some) form of meat?
No doubt some heavy early lobbying from Big Goat.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:01 AM on March 19 [9 favorites]
No doubt some heavy early lobbying from Big Goat.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:01 AM on March 19 [9 favorites]
Years ago, I picked up a book at a library book sale, I think it was titled "The Whole Hog". I got it because I thought it looked funny, but it turned out to be a fascinating and deep delve into the history and biology of pigs, and their close relation to humankind. I like it when I find things like that.
posted by Rudy_Wiser at 11:03 AM on March 19 [4 favorites]
posted by Rudy_Wiser at 11:03 AM on March 19 [4 favorites]
Pigs require a sturdier pen than the typical goats and donkeys in the Middle East. In a Bronze Age collapse society, only a high status man could afford to manage a swine herd. Given the general austerity tone of the Old Testament laws, it would make sense to ban swine herding as part of the sumptuary prohibitions you see there.
Same thing happened on the island of Tikopoia for the same reason, according to Metafilter's beta noire Jared Diamond.
posted by ocschwar at 11:15 AM on March 19 [2 favorites]
Same thing happened on the island of Tikopoia for the same reason, according to Metafilter's beta noire Jared Diamond.
posted by ocschwar at 11:15 AM on March 19 [2 favorites]
So the theory posited in the article is that the biblical prohibition on eating pork basically came from a BCE version of RETVRN (to the pastoral ways of your ancestors, in this case).
posted by ssg at 11:17 AM on March 19
posted by ssg at 11:17 AM on March 19
Pigs are great at turning garbage into delicious sausages. In the words of our greatest philosopher, “a magical animal”
posted by funkaspuck at 11:18 AM on March 19 [5 favorites]
posted by funkaspuck at 11:18 AM on March 19 [5 favorites]
<sean bean>I am fond of pigs.</sean bean>
posted by Mayor West at 11:19 AM on March 19 [3 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 11:19 AM on March 19 [3 favorites]
beta noire is a decent user name
posted by ginger.beef at 11:20 AM on March 19 [10 favorites]
posted by ginger.beef at 11:20 AM on March 19 [10 favorites]
Any day where I can use a shrug emoticon to tie up a posting, and have it be on point, is a good day.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 11:22 AM on March 19 [1 favorite]
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 11:22 AM on March 19 [1 favorite]
Pigs require a sturdier pen than the typical goats and donkeys
The pigpen is mightier than the sward
posted by chavenet at 11:22 AM on March 19 [51 favorites]
The pigpen is mightier than the sward
posted by chavenet at 11:22 AM on March 19 [51 favorites]
straight to jail
posted by ginger.beef at 11:24 AM on March 19 [7 favorites]
posted by ginger.beef at 11:24 AM on March 19 [7 favorites]
I was thinking that pigs need mud, and therefore more water.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 11:25 AM on March 19
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 11:25 AM on March 19
oscshwar I really hope beta noire is not a typo, because it's brilliant.
There was a great restaurant here in Oakland, Oliveto's (tragic victim of landlord greed after decades run as an enduring classic) that did an annual special event called The Whole Hog. The entire menu was pig-only and every part of the pig was featured. I was so lucky once to attend (on someone else's dime!) and it was a delicious experience from tail to snout.
I find it fascinating to think about the history of food development. before modern storage techniques it was crucial to preserve every ounce of that precious and costly protein (a pig like that you don't kill all at once haha) and so many wonderful techniques were invented to preserve meat without refrigeration. Salting, smoking, curing etc., yum yum yum. (you know one time a shepherd forgot his yogurt in a cave over the winter and came back in the spring to find a bowl of stinky moldy stuff that he ate anyway!! woohoo brie!)
posted by supermedusa at 11:34 AM on March 19 [5 favorites]
There was a great restaurant here in Oakland, Oliveto's (tragic victim of landlord greed after decades run as an enduring classic) that did an annual special event called The Whole Hog. The entire menu was pig-only and every part of the pig was featured. I was so lucky once to attend (on someone else's dime!) and it was a delicious experience from tail to snout.
I find it fascinating to think about the history of food development. before modern storage techniques it was crucial to preserve every ounce of that precious and costly protein (a pig like that you don't kill all at once haha) and so many wonderful techniques were invented to preserve meat without refrigeration. Salting, smoking, curing etc., yum yum yum. (you know one time a shepherd forgot his yogurt in a cave over the winter and came back in the spring to find a bowl of stinky moldy stuff that he ate anyway!! woohoo brie!)
posted by supermedusa at 11:34 AM on March 19 [5 favorites]
2015 study by an actual anthropologist, Richard Redding
posted by Ideefixe at 11:40 AM on March 19 [1 favorite]
posted by Ideefixe at 11:40 AM on March 19 [1 favorite]
Seattle chef Tom Douglas did a Baconopolis event, where each of his many restaurants did their own bacon based dishes.
posted by funkaspuck at 11:44 AM on March 19
posted by funkaspuck at 11:44 AM on March 19
BTW, the Hebrew word for a chicken is a loanword from Sumerian: "tarnegol", which is a corruption of "tar lugal", meaning "king's bird."
Whoever brought chickens to Mesopotamia during the Babylonian exile was a whiz at marketing.
posted by ocschwar at 11:45 AM on March 19 [8 favorites]
Whoever brought chickens to Mesopotamia during the Babylonian exile was a whiz at marketing.
posted by ocschwar at 11:45 AM on March 19 [8 favorites]
Jordan Rosenblum, featured in the article, was recently a guest on the frequently interesting Biblical Time Machine podcast discussing his recent book Forbidden: A 3,000-Year History of Jews and the Pig. An interesting discussion echoing much of the article and more.
posted by deeker at 12:09 PM on March 19
posted by deeker at 12:09 PM on March 19
I have this t-shirt and am considering getting a tattoo of it (the pig, not the whole shirt)
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:21 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:21 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]
Back in the early 70’s, in college, an anthro professor discussed the pig eating question. He said a lot of people now like to think that it was a biological thing - trichinous avoidance - but he doubted that given the lack of science then. He said that a lot of cultural things like do this and don’t do that we’re just ways for one cultural group to differentiate themselves from other cultural groups. “We don’t eat pigs, like those xxxxx who live over the hill.” It seems that the article based on all the much more recent research, says pretty much the same thing.
posted by njohnson23 at 12:35 PM on March 19 [5 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 12:35 PM on March 19 [5 favorites]
The pigpen is mightier than the sward
posted by chavenet
Legendary comment. Arthurian, almost, as if you'd pulled the sward from duroc.
posted by lalochezia at 12:37 PM on March 19 [12 favorites]
posted by chavenet
Legendary comment. Arthurian, almost, as if you'd pulled the sward from duroc.
posted by lalochezia at 12:37 PM on March 19 [12 favorites]
I'm a tad surprised that there's not a single mention of one of pigs' most notable features: They can be incredibly loud. Squeals have been measured as loud as 115db, the equivalent of "sandblasting or a rock concert".
I have a hard time believing this hasn't played a role in there somewhere along the way.
posted by Ufez Jones at 1:02 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]
I have a hard time believing this hasn't played a role in there somewhere along the way.
posted by Ufez Jones at 1:02 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]
Many years ago, I heard a rabbi telling a story about a Christian friend of his suddenly yelling, out of nowhere, “What do you guys have against pigs??!” To which the rabbi responded, “We have nothing against pigs. WE leave the pigs alone.”
posted by thomas j wise at 1:09 PM on March 19 [6 favorites]
posted by thomas j wise at 1:09 PM on March 19 [6 favorites]
TRICHINOSIS: The pig's reply to proponents of porcophagy.
--Amborse Bierce
posted by mule98J at 1:13 PM on March 19 [4 favorites]
--Amborse Bierce
posted by mule98J at 1:13 PM on March 19 [4 favorites]
“He said that a lot of cultural things like do this and don’t do that we’re just ways for one cultural group to differentiate themselves from other cultural groups. “We don’t eat pigs, like those xxxxx who live over the hill.””
This description of schismogenesis is a large part of the argument in Graeber’s The Dawn of Everything for how we got here and how we could get somewhere else.
posted by toodleydoodley at 1:32 PM on March 19 [4 favorites]
This description of schismogenesis is a large part of the argument in Graeber’s The Dawn of Everything for how we got here and how we could get somewhere else.
posted by toodleydoodley at 1:32 PM on March 19 [4 favorites]
“We don’t eat pigs, like those xxxxx who live over the hill.”
This is about as good an explanation as anyone has been able to provide. Certainly there is plenty of evidence that the Canaanites and other Semitic-speaking cultures in the Levant ate pork. As far as food safety is concerned, all you really need to process and store pork in order to prevent trichinosis and other sources of illness is salt, and there is certainly no shortage of that in the region.
The prohibitions on different kinds of meat in Leviticus focus mainly on whether or not an animal chews its cud, or has divided hooves. The significance of these specific features to the ancient Israelites still remains somewhat opaque to modern scholarship.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:49 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]
This is about as good an explanation as anyone has been able to provide. Certainly there is plenty of evidence that the Canaanites and other Semitic-speaking cultures in the Levant ate pork. As far as food safety is concerned, all you really need to process and store pork in order to prevent trichinosis and other sources of illness is salt, and there is certainly no shortage of that in the region.
The prohibitions on different kinds of meat in Leviticus focus mainly on whether or not an animal chews its cud, or has divided hooves. The significance of these specific features to the ancient Israelites still remains somewhat opaque to modern scholarship.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:49 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]
I used to be fairly addicted to pork products. But I got chicken, went cold turkey and today I'm cured.
posted by zaixfeep at 1:52 PM on March 19 [13 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 1:52 PM on March 19 [13 favorites]
What's your beef with pork?
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:59 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:59 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]
folks the jail is full and I'm out of ideas
posted by ginger.beef at 2:00 PM on March 19 [8 favorites]
posted by ginger.beef at 2:00 PM on March 19 [8 favorites]
I'm surprised the article doesn't mention Marvin Harris, unless he's included in "some scholars". Harris's idea is that the pig, originating in forests, was not ecologically suited to the more arid Middle East. Pigs are large, and as omnivores compete with humans for food. In the forest they never get too hot, but in a semi-desert they cool themselves off with their own urine and feces, which doesn't improve their reputation. Others have theorized that the scavenging was what made them unattractive.
The article mentions that pig-eating was common in the Levant early on, but it has to be pointed out that the Levant and even Mesopotamia used to be heavily forested.
It mentions the hot and dry conditions in Arabia influencing the Islamic pig ban.
A difference based on ecology can of course turn into a cultural one.
posted by zompist at 2:04 PM on March 19 [13 favorites]
The article mentions that pig-eating was common in the Levant early on, but it has to be pointed out that the Levant and even Mesopotamia used to be heavily forested.
It mentions the hot and dry conditions in Arabia influencing the Islamic pig ban.
A difference based on ecology can of course turn into a cultural one.
posted by zompist at 2:04 PM on March 19 [13 favorites]
I'm a tad surprised that there's not a single mention of one of pigs' most notable features: They can be incredibly loud.
Certainly a disadvantage compared to other protein sources which are completely Soylent.
posted by notoriety public at 2:30 PM on March 19 [8 favorites]
Certainly a disadvantage compared to other protein sources which are completely Soylent.
posted by notoriety public at 2:30 PM on March 19 [8 favorites]
*Forbidden: A 3,000-Year History of Jews and the Pig* by Jordan D. Rosenblum
I haven't read it, but it sounds promising. Jews have a complicated history with not eating pig, or eating pig sometimes.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 2:58 PM on March 19
I haven't read it, but it sounds promising. Jews have a complicated history with not eating pig, or eating pig sometimes.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 2:58 PM on March 19
A rabbi and a priest were seated next to each other on an airplane, and during the flight they struck up a friendly conversation about their respective experiences. At one point the priest asked, "Is it still true Jews can't eat pork?"
The rabbi nodded. "And is it true you Catholic priests can't have sex?"
The priest agreed then asked, "So...have you ever eaten pork?"
The rabbi looked abashed but replied, "Yes, I ate a ham sandwich once. ...Did you ever break your vow of celibacy?"
"Yes, once" the priest admitted quietly.
The rabbi smiled and said, "Better than ham, isn't it?"
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:19 PM on March 19 [17 favorites]
The rabbi nodded. "And is it true you Catholic priests can't have sex?"
The priest agreed then asked, "So...have you ever eaten pork?"
The rabbi looked abashed but replied, "Yes, I ate a ham sandwich once. ...Did you ever break your vow of celibacy?"
"Yes, once" the priest admitted quietly.
The rabbi smiled and said, "Better than ham, isn't it?"
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:19 PM on March 19 [17 favorites]
I consider it my sacred duty to pass on the Old Knowledge
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:20 PM on March 19 [9 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:20 PM on March 19 [9 favorites]
What's your beef with pork?
posted by Greg_Ace
Just being a bit of a ham, I guess. Eth-a-the-a-the-eth-a-That's all folks!
posted by zaixfeep at 3:24 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace
Just being a bit of a ham, I guess. Eth-a-the-a-the-eth-a-That's all folks!
posted by zaixfeep at 3:24 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]
That's a joke with hidden depths, Greg_Ace — as anyone who's read their Joseph Wambaugh might know, 'ham sandwich' is a fairly explicit sexual metaphor.
It's been a long, long time since I read Harris's Cows, Pigs, Witches and Wars (if I got the order right), but doesn't Harris make the point that pigs can't digest cellulose, but cloven footed animals can? I thought that was a pretty plausible reason for preferring the latter.
posted by jamjam at 4:05 PM on March 19
It's been a long, long time since I read Harris's Cows, Pigs, Witches and Wars (if I got the order right), but doesn't Harris make the point that pigs can't digest cellulose, but cloven footed animals can? I thought that was a pretty plausible reason for preferring the latter.
posted by jamjam at 4:05 PM on March 19
Also, the fact that pigs will eat other animals, including humans, doesn't exactly make them more appealing.
posted by jamjam at 4:09 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]
posted by jamjam at 4:09 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]
GregAce, I don't mean for you to have a cow, but if I goose this thread with another pun, I recommend you duck — or you'll end up being the scapegoat.
I say this as one of MeFi's 'black sheep', one whom no one should emu-late.
In conclusion: Worms, Roxanne, Worms!
PS What is turducken? It's what an ucken leaves behind. Oh deer. ☺
posted by zaixfeep at 5:00 PM on March 19 [6 favorites]
I say this as one of MeFi's 'black sheep', one whom no one should emu-late.
In conclusion: Worms, Roxanne, Worms!
PS What is turducken? It's what an ucken leaves behind. Oh deer. ☺
posted by zaixfeep at 5:00 PM on March 19 [6 favorites]
Everyone in this thread- jail.
Jail 1000 years!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:14 PM on March 19 [10 favorites]
Jail 1000 years!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:14 PM on March 19 [10 favorites]
if I goose this thread with another pun, I recommend you duck — or you'll end up being the scapegoat.
Venison-one going to convince you not to pass the buck?
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:51 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]
Venison-one going to convince you not to pass the buck?
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:51 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]
[releases pack of razorbacks]
posted by clavdivs at 5:57 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 5:57 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]
GregAce, I submit — in your dogged determination, you have outfoxed me and I must now eat crow. I offer no further rabbit-al.
posted by zaixfeep at 6:16 PM on March 19 [3 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 6:16 PM on March 19 [3 favorites]
OK now I'm boar-ed.
posted by zaixfeep at 6:17 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 6:17 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]
Aaaand ad hoc(k) we come full circle, with no ribbing to spare!
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:57 PM on March 19
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:57 PM on March 19
and nobody needs to shank anyone
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:58 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:58 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]
Yeah I'm done for now, but next time this topic comes up you can bet I'll be back, bacon.
posted by zaixfeep at 7:22 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]
posted by zaixfeep at 7:22 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]
I've always wondered if one of the trains for not eating pub is that they are a bit too like humans . They're about the same build as a human, are also omnivores, and supposedly taste similar ( "long pig").
Also, apart from waste disposal pigs are the only farmed animal that produces nothing useable until they are killed, which would make them a bit of a luxury in marginal farming areas.
What puzzles me is that given there are so .any reasons not to keep again the middle East, why did anyone bother? There's a bit in Herodotus (I think) where he illustrates the Egyptian abhorrence of pigs with a story of a man who accidentally touched one and immediately ran to the river and jumped in. What I want to know is who's pig it was and what it was doing in Egypt in the first place?
posted by Fuchsoid at 8:33 PM on March 19
Also, apart from waste disposal pigs are the only farmed animal that produces nothing useable until they are killed, which would make them a bit of a luxury in marginal farming areas.
What puzzles me is that given there are so .any reasons not to keep again the middle East, why did anyone bother? There's a bit in Herodotus (I think) where he illustrates the Egyptian abhorrence of pigs with a story of a man who accidentally touched one and immediately ran to the river and jumped in. What I want to know is who's pig it was and what it was doing in Egypt in the first place?
posted by Fuchsoid at 8:33 PM on March 19
OK GregAce, this is a pun exhibition not a competition. All are welcome to participate; to the rest of you a strict 'No Wagering' policy is being observed. ☺
posted by zaixfeep at 10:02 PM on March 19
posted by zaixfeep at 10:02 PM on March 19
In Meat – A Benign Extravagance (2010) Simon "Counterculture" Fairlie makes the case that meat can be incorporated into a holistic sustainable agriculture. Pigs raised on kitchen waste and weeds is perhaps the best option.
posted by BobTheScientist at 1:23 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by BobTheScientist at 1:23 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
“A pig is a jolly companion,
Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt--
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale,
Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you,
When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby or Rover,
You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!”
- Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon
posted by whuppy at 4:55 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt--
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale,
Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you,
When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby or Rover,
You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!”
- Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon
posted by whuppy at 4:55 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Came in for 50 feral hogs, was disappointed
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 5:59 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 5:59 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
So, some fun facts about the difficulties of managing pigs.
The Puritans and the Dutch brought pigs into their colonies, and the biggest source of tension and violence between them and indigenous people involved stray pigs breaking out of their pens and raiding gardens where the indigenous were growing the Three Sisters,.
Then there was the Pig War of 1859, a border standoff in Washington between the US and Britain triggered by the killing of a stray pig that was raiding a potato patch.
The Hatfield-McCoy feud started with a dispute over a stray pig.
Oh, and last but not least: the sheer number of Arkansans using night vision goggles they got on the black market for hunting feral pigs, caused a shortage of these in the Russian army that probably had a hand in saving Kyiv in 2022.
So yeah, there are reasons not o raise them.
posted by ocschwar at 8:14 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
The Puritans and the Dutch brought pigs into their colonies, and the biggest source of tension and violence between them and indigenous people involved stray pigs breaking out of their pens and raiding gardens where the indigenous were growing the Three Sisters,.
Then there was the Pig War of 1859, a border standoff in Washington between the US and Britain triggered by the killing of a stray pig that was raiding a potato patch.
The Hatfield-McCoy feud started with a dispute over a stray pig.
Oh, and last but not least: the sheer number of Arkansans using night vision goggles they got on the black market for hunting feral pigs, caused a shortage of these in the Russian army that probably had a hand in saving Kyiv in 2022.
So yeah, there are reasons not o raise them.
posted by ocschwar at 8:14 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
Wild boar were introduced to Alberta in the early 1980s
big mistake
posted by ginger.beef at 8:29 AM on March 20
big mistake
posted by ginger.beef at 8:29 AM on March 20
> The history of the pig is the history of humanity.
That's a somewhat bleak take on humanity. Are we saying that the most human thing is to hate what you oppress? Or that factory farms are the pinnacle of our species?
Pigs in nature are clean. Pigs are acutely sensitive, intelligent, and prosocial. The only way we can justify our behavior to them is by reviling and libeling them.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:53 AM on March 20
That's a somewhat bleak take on humanity. Are we saying that the most human thing is to hate what you oppress? Or that factory farms are the pinnacle of our species?
Pigs in nature are clean. Pigs are acutely sensitive, intelligent, and prosocial. The only way we can justify our behavior to them is by reviling and libeling them.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:53 AM on March 20
To quote Winston Churchill - "Dogs looks up to you, cats look down on you. Give me a pig, he just looks you in the eye and treats you as an equal."
posted by Fuchsoid at 12:26 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by Fuchsoid at 12:26 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Came in for 50 feral hogs, was disappointed
(AK AK AK AK) x 10 + (AK AK AK AK AK AK AK)
posted by jamjam at 10:55 AM on March 21
(AK AK AK AK) x 10 + (AK AK AK AK AK AK AK)
posted by jamjam at 10:55 AM on March 21
« Older Noteworthy reports and resources | "the way forward is to be ethical" Newer »
posted by HearHere at 10:52 AM on March 19 [2 favorites]