It's as Canadian as hockey, the maple leaf and Canada geese

March 19, 2025 12:54 PM

Or is it?
posted by chavenet (58 comments total)

I read this article this morning and it made me think.

This is the challenge these days in Canada with the drive to “buy Canadian”. What is the definition of Canadian when it comes to big commerce in a global setting? What about French, as in the mustard/ketchup? It seems to be but it’s actually American. What about the NHL? Totally American but yet also Canadian so I guess I show my displeasure by booing at a hockey game during the anthem. Starbucks and McDonalds are American; but how do I resolve that with my local Starbucks McDks that employs Canadians and is part of the local economy?

Just like in the article, I would say that Tim Hortons is Canadian, even if it was totally owned by a non-Canadian entity, which it isn’t.

Canadian or not, it doesn’t change the fact that Tims has some pretty good donuts and bad coffee.
posted by ashbury at 1:25 PM on March 19 [4 favorites]

The double-double is the Wayne Gretzky of coffee...
posted by aeshnid at 1:29 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]

Canadian or not, it doesn’t change the fact that Tims has some pretty good donuts and bad coffee.

The donuts have very noticeably declined in quality over the decades in my opinion. Ever since they stopped making them fresh in-store and had them shipped in frozen from centralized commercial kitchens. And I'm not even a coffee drinker, but yeah, its bad.
posted by Clever User Name at 1:33 PM on March 19 [16 favorites]

Living 30 minutes from the border I'm familiar with what i consider Canadian. Love me some Mackintosh toffee...some pea meal bacon, great cheddar cheese, and of course maple syrup. Certain items must be very expensive in Canada because year round they come in droves...car and busfulls...so shop in our malls and big box stores. It will be interesting bto see if this slacks off due to recent developments.
posted by Czjewel at 1:36 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]

I have thought Tim's coffee tastes like broiled assholes for a while now. But my wife recently got gifted some instant coffee things -- pop it in the coffee maker in place of the regular filter and grounds -- and the "Donut Shop" type, which was clearly designed to look as close as possible to Dunkin' Donuts, had the exact same broiled-asshole flavour profile.

So now I'm wondering if "donut shop coffee" is its own thing, and I hate it, but Tim's is successfully delivering on it. I guess I'd have to head south and find a Dunkin' Donuts to really answer that question.
posted by Shepherd at 1:37 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]

Timmie's banks entirely too much on Canadian nostalgia. I consider it Canadian cosplay but I am aware I am VERY in the minority at any workplace I've been in.
posted by Kitteh at 1:43 PM on March 19 [8 favorites]

The double-double is the Wayne Gretzky of coffee...

I thought the Gretzky was the Gretzky of coffee (9 creams and 9 sugars)
posted by selenized at 1:52 PM on March 19 [3 favorites]

It’s garbage last resort road food.
People that feel all Canadian about it are kind of sad.
At the OnRoute I’m going for the cheese curds before Tim’s, every time.
posted by chococat at 1:58 PM on March 19 [8 favorites]

Tim's donuts are terrible. Yes, once upon a time they were good but that was decades ago, but somehow Coffee Time is even worse, don't ask me how that's possible. We need Mister Donut to come back to Canada and copy whatever processes their Japanese stores have because those are the best regular donuts.

And yeah the performative Canadian-ness of Tim's is annoying and I think of it as the retail equivalent of "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". They've got nothing else so they push the fact that they're Canadian.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:59 PM on March 19 [6 favorites]

are you people working from the old definition of the Gretzky of coffee

because the current definition is when you're drinking a cup of coffee and you thought it would be great but it's actually shitty and you find a dead rat in the bottom of your cup
posted by ginger.beef at 1:59 PM on March 19 [13 favorites]

The 22 Minutes answer to the question about Tim's Canadian credentials.
posted by sardonyx at 2:01 PM on March 19 [4 favorites]

On my surburban campus only two places have decaf coffee (to which I am condemned) - Starbucks and Tim's. This article makes me feel better that I haven't yet divested my Tim's habit.

What about French, as in the mustard/ketchup? It seems to be but it’s actually American.

French's is remembered for taking over the tomatoes in Leamington after Heinz pulled out. But it was purchased by McCormick's which is a US company. They still produce from the Leamington plant at least.

I think points to remember are:

- perfection is the enemy of the good
- we're in transition right now and it will take years, but as we swing our purchasing on the hierarchy to Canadian-first, Canada-produced second, etc. etc. it will have an impact on viable businesses increasing production or adding products that would normally have been under the US shadow - at least that's the hope.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:02 PM on March 19 [8 favorites]

VelveetaFilter: this Yank once heard the product labeled American Cheese is known as Canadian Cheese, in Canada. Two attempts now, at verification north of the border, and I've come up empty-handed. (Note that, if you're in the States like me, I've heard it's processed cheese you want, not processed cheese food - although both sound entirely synthetic, to me. Kraft labels the former "Deluxe," here.)
posted by Rash at 2:08 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]

Agreed, warriorqueen. Interprovincial trade barriers can’t be lifted soon enough.
posted by ashbury at 2:08 PM on March 19 [3 favorites]

Rash, the closest I’ve seen is cheez wiz. But we definely have velveeta here too.
posted by ashbury at 2:10 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]

No such thing as "Canadian cheese" as opposed to "American".

And god the sandwiches are bad, they make the donuts look good by comparison. I suspect you have to willfully try to make a bad BLT. I mean even a crappy BLT is pretty good, except at Horton's
posted by Keith Talent at 2:12 PM on March 19 [3 favorites]

this Yank once heard the product labeled American Cheese is known as Canadian Cheese, in Canada

This is not correct. It's called "cheese slices" or "processed cheese slices" if you mean the highly-processed American cheese that comes in individual wrappers. Kraft Singles cannot be called cheese because they are less than 51% cheese so they are called - Kraft Singles.

f you mean American government cheese of the 70s and 80s (I'm not sure if this is still happening) we basically don't have it up here; the closest is mild cheddar or marble mild cheddar.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:13 PM on March 19 [5 favorites]

are you people working from the old definition of the Gretzky of coffee

I was working from the definition of Gretzky as a sad Mar-a-Lago sack of moose-poop coffee grounds.
posted by aeshnid at 2:28 PM on March 19 [4 favorites]

RBI also owns Popeyes so they’re as Canadian as Tim’s.

Also, a lot of people probably don’t know that Tim Horton killed himself in a drunk driving crash, which maybe gives extra points for Canadianness with regard to our self-image as a drinking nation.
posted by rodlymight at 2:31 PM on March 19 [4 favorites]

Tim's coffee used to be pretty good - there was a reason we loved it. We weren't crazy (the donuts used to be good too). When McDonald's launched McCafe, they swooped in and snagged the about-to-be-renewed contract with the Tim's coffee suppliers. It's a good story told in this podcast.

When you hear people say that McDonald's coffee is better - now you know why!
posted by kitcat at 2:38 PM on March 19 [6 favorites]

The Gretzky of coffee these days would be 12 oz of bad whisky in a Tims cup to hide the day drinking.
posted by bonehead at 2:42 PM on March 19 [6 favorites]

Who owns Stan Mikita's Donuts these days?
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:44 PM on March 19 [3 favorites]

Never been to a Tim's (despite many trips across the border), but this American was gifted a game used Tim Horton (HOFer) hockey stick when I was in my formative years in an effort to convert me from a Rangers fan to a Leafs fan. Alas, it did not wholly work. I am still a Rangers fan, but if asked to pick between the Les Habitats or the Leafs, I root for the Leafs. Although I do have fond memories of going to the Montreal Forum as a youngster in the 70s and seeing men heat up pennies with a lighter then toss them on the ice as some sort of protest that I never did understand.

Anyway, to this American, Tim Horton's is totally a Canadian company and if I drank coffee or ate donuts* I would proudly support a Canadian company by fueling up at Tim's.

*stopped eating donuts the day i won a bet by eating a dozen glazed donuts in under some time limit (that I cannot remember).
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:46 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]

As Canadians, we are all over the "buy Canadian" thing, but we're not tying ourselves into knots over it. Mrs C is following the buy Canadian websites and groups. It's almost a game. warriorqueen nails it; do what you can. And let's keep encouraging the long-term moves: easier interprovincial trade, and incentives for Canadian businesses to make or distribute the stuff we used to depend on US companies for. No plans to vacation in the US, which is a bit of a drag; we have a few friends and some good memories from there.

(A young friend just came back from a spring vacation in Ft Lauderdale. He says it was almost embarrassing how many Americans were apologising to him. Thanks, is all I can say to those folks)

If there's two products, and one's Canadian (and not awful), we choose it. Yes to Frenchs ketchup. We've stopped buying US wines (we had a couple favourites) but we are already regular buyers of some Ontario wines, as well as from Australia, NZ, the EU.

In terms of franchises... if there are clear Canadian equivalents, we'll choose them. As far as Canadianness... Tim Horton's seems to do a lot of community support (eg Timbits hockey, free coffee at community events, etc), so a franchise that is involved with the community deserves some consideration. And of course they're employing locals.

We confess to a McDonalds breakfast habit when we're travelling by car. And the McDonalds coffee IS better. Sorry Tim's.

But anyway, yeah, we're going to noisily, performatively keep buying Canadian and talking up Canadian businesses. Elbows up. Til the US capitulates and asks us to admit their states as the next 50 provinces.

PS: American cheese - When we were kids and made the occasional visit to Duluth MN, one of the sought-after products was aerosol cheese, cos we couldn't get it in Canada. So that will always be "American cheese" to me.
posted by Artful Codger at 2:46 PM on March 19 [8 favorites]

Who owns Stan Mikita's Donuts these days?

is it the same company that owns Punch Imlach's Briefs?
posted by ginger.beef at 2:47 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]

I am still a Rangers fan, but if asked to pick between the Les Habitats or the Leafs, I root for the Leafs.

this may be the wrongest combination of words typed in MeFi today
posted by ginger.beef at 2:50 PM on March 19 [13 favorites]

French's is remembered for taking over the tomatoes in Leamington after Heinz pulled out. But it was purchased by McCormick's which is a US company. They still produce from the Leamington plant at least.

So is the thing to do buy the store brand that uses Canadian tomatoes processed in a Canadian plant? That's just funelling money to Galen Weston and we still hate that guy too right?

Maybe HBC needs to reposition itself as a Walmart that sells only Canadian products.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:51 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]

Well we’re buying Primo ketchup but there are protests from my kids. Life with a former food editor…

My youngest would also like to note they call the slices “plastic cheese.”
posted by warriorqueen at 2:58 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]

Galen Weston can absolutely still go do one. I don't live within walking distance of any of his stores so I make do with Food Basics or Metro for shelf staples, Memorial Centre Market for local stuff, and Tara Natural Foods and Bulk Barn for, well, bulk foods.

My sister, when she visits from the US, says that Toronto has a lot of two things: weed stores and Tim Horton's.
posted by Kitteh at 2:59 PM on March 19 [4 favorites]

Maybe PeePee could apply his ‘Bring It Home’ wheeze to making Tim’s Canadian again? But I suspect that even that wouldn’t restore his sagging fortunes.
posted by aeshnid at 3:05 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]

My youngest would also like to note they call the slices “plastic cheese.”

When I was in business school in Chicago in the early 90s, I met a woman who worked as a nutritionist for Kraft at the time a Chicago area company. So, I could not resist. "What's the story with Kraft singles? You're a nutritionist for Kraft. What nutrition is in these things?" Her response was, "Don't ever eat more than three in any one sitting."
posted by JohnnyGunn at 3:12 PM on March 19 [8 favorites]

I can’t believe we got so far into this thread talking about Tim’s bitumenous coffee and American Kraft cheese slices and no-one has weighed in on poutine
posted by aeshnid at 3:27 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]

If I had trailer hitches that needed cleaning I'm sure Tim's coffee would be perfectly adequate for the task, but I don't, so I never buy the fetid swamp juice.
Their donuts taste more and more like plastic as time goes buy.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 3:28 PM on March 19 [3 favorites]

American Kraft cheese slices and no-one has weighed in on poutine

The American cheese slice and Poutine were on a phone call today
posted by chavenet at 3:36 PM on March 19

...last resort road food.
Basically yeah, back when I worked out in the field, Timmy's was the only available option sometimes.

the performative Canadian-ness of Tim's is annoying
Usually I wouldn't care personally, until I got really annoyed when Stephen Harper sucked up to them; hey dudes your brand is getting smeared into a right-wing political identity... of course, Canadian country bumpkins gonna go Con no matter what.

And the McDonalds coffee IS better.
I never get take-out coffee. If I had to, then I would prefer Starbuck's slightly burnt flavour, in spite of the fact that their owners are as annoying as any owner, except an indie.
posted by ovvl at 3:38 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]

What about French, as in the mustard/ketchup?

That’s French-apostrophe-s mustard, an American guy named Robert French.
posted by mhoye at 3:48 PM on March 19 [6 favorites]

Harvey's makes a much better breakfast, with eggs cooked to order, bacon and real toast and jam. They're usually not that hard to find even in Newfoundland or northern BC. Coffee is still crap though.
posted by bonehead at 3:57 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]

Thanks mhoye. Was about to quibble.
posted by biffa at 4:17 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]

Is there any analysis anyone is aware of the best choice between "American Company, Made in Canada" and "Canadian Company, Made in U.S." Which is the better option here? Canadian-made support our economy, but given that if the company is U.S. owned the profits are going to the top (not workers in the U.S.), this isn't really supporting their economy, but if those owners then turn around and donate to republicans or the rich don't feel the pinch (oh no, i'm only making 41 million now when I was making 41.3 million before!) and don't pressure the republicans then that's a problem, too.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:43 PM on March 19 [4 favorites]

MetaFilter: Was about to quibble.
posted by ginger.beef at 4:52 PM on March 19 [6 favorites]

I get a maple dip every time I am back and Canada and later in the day I might have a quarter white with fries and extra chalet sauce but those are both simple cheap nostalgia checkboxes for me and the world really has moved on to offer much better donuts and restaurant meals so I don't make too much out of it.

I'm not sure if they're in decline. Maybe that's true but there isn't really much that I really loved in the 80s that I still really like now. Maybe I'm in decline.
posted by srboisvert at 4:59 PM on March 19 [3 favorites]

I kinda like Coffee Time's terrible donuts. But I miss the one Robin's that was near us on Ellesmere Road for a couple of years. Country Style are okay when you can find them.

They're all better than Dunkin's, tho. Dunkin's coffee tastes like cupro-nickel coins dissolved in vinegar.

I still remember the obscene trick demonstrated to me in a Mr Donuts in Kochi, Japan. It involved a segment of a bran donut, and was demonstrated to me by someone who's now pretty senior in river conservation in Portland, OR.
posted by scruss at 5:25 PM on March 19 [2 favorites]

I moved to Canada from the southeastern US a few years ago. Canadians' attachment to Tim Horton's, as it currently exists, is an enduring mystery to me. I get being attached to your local fast-food joint -- I am from Waffle House country, after all, and I still harbour an aching yearning for Milo's burger sauce, a salty brown abomination only available from a teeny little Alabama burger chain. I understand irrational yet fierce loyalty to shitty food.

But Timmy's, man. The donuts are... bad. The coffee is... bad. The breakfast offerings are microwaved tragedies. There is nothing to recommend the place.

And every Canadian I mention this to assures me that Timmy's used to be good but now sucks so no one goes there any more.

And every morning I drive past two (2) Tim Horton's (on my TEN-MINUTE commute) and the places are PACKED. Parking lot jammed. Drive-throughs wrapped.

And it's not even like they're cheap.

I don't get it.

(Canada's great, though.)
posted by BitterOldPunk at 6:49 PM on March 19 [7 favorites]

I don't drink the coffee at Tim's, but their steeped tea is damn good tea, probably the best tea you can get at a chain store.
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:15 PM on March 19 [3 favorites]

Tim Hortons coffee from the grocery store is much better than its peers like dunking or Folgers.
posted by zenon at 11:38 PM on March 19 [1 favorite]

And every Canadian I mention this to assures me that Timmy's used to be good but now sucks so no one goes there any more.

I moved to Canada 22 years ago, and Timmy’s was undrinkable sump juice even back then. When was this Golden Age of Tim Hortons, I’m asking?
posted by aeshnid at 3:52 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]

Tim’s coffee doesn’t taste like coffee. It tastes like early morning practice, the train station on the way to two glorious months of summer camp, long talks with your best friend, what your spouse brings you in the hospital as they wheel your oldest into surgery, the start of every road trip ever. Liquid nostalgia. Which is why it was always better back then.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:05 AM on March 20 [11 favorites]

Tim's coffee is a warm substrate into which one adds carbs and fats; a toll to the ferryman to pass through the next few hours of horror. I'm not sure there's a point of ordering anything less than a triple-triple, which has 400kcal of fuel and 270mg of caffeine. By reckoning that's just enough mana for 3 hours of grinding, but if you stumble into a boss fight you're in trouble.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:20 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]

The problem with Tims is that it's bad, not that its no longer Canadians.

And if you genuinely miss the old Timmies coffee, it's at McDonalds now. McDonalds Canada swooped in got a deal with Timmies' old coffee bean supplier. So that McCafe coffee is what you're actually craving.
posted by thecjm at 6:07 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]

I like Tim’s coffee
posted by cabbage raccoon at 6:18 AM on March 20 [6 favorites]

warriorqueen, as I read your paean to Tim's coffee, a soft acoustic guitar started playing under it, with a wistful harmonica coming in around 0:08, and a soft strings build around 0:17. I think there's something in my eye. You nailed it. So how long have you been writing ads?

Coffee shops certainly mattered as suppliers of daily work fuel, and, especially in smaller towns, as a social hub. I lived 7 years of my young adult life in Hamilton... nuff said.

And yeeeess, ok, I do consume Tim's coffee from time to time - when someone's brought me one, or out of guilt when we need their bathroom. TIP: order the Dark Roast.
posted by Artful Codger at 6:42 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]

So how long have you been writing ads?

I do work in marketing (and used to be a senior editor for a brand that included food.) Not for Tim's though. :)
posted by warriorqueen at 6:49 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]

I like Tim’s coffee
posted by cabbage raccoon

I didn't expect to read poetry this morning but here we are

the quoubble with quibbles would be a username
posted by ginger.beef at 7:06 AM on March 20 [6 favorites]

I don't drink coffee, but I still like Tim's doughnuts. Maybe I have an unrefined palette, I don't know, but... they're fine? It's not the best doughnut I've ever eaten (that's probably Five Daughters Bakery, Nashville) but they're pretty good. I don't understand all the negativity here.

a quarter white with fries and extra chalet sauce

Oh man. I moved back to Canada last spring and we go to Swiss Chalet at least monthly. It is reliably good food if you stick to the chicken and don't try things like their spring rolls which are just, why. I get a quarter white with rice pilaf and my partner gets a quarter dark with veg and we share our sides with each other. Their buns are great. I don't want to eat it every day but it's vastly preferable to all the sports bar places that have proliferated in my hometown while I was away.
posted by joannemerriam at 7:09 AM on March 20 [5 favorites]

Tim's is quintessentially Canadian in that it's mostly inoffensive and steadfast in its identify even if it's a little confused about it.
posted by mazola at 8:23 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]

Here is the Toque measure for evaluating Canadinness. Tim's score 3.5 toques. But as he says at the end, the appropriate weighting is not clear.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:33 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]

Before I even clicked or hovered over the link, my first guess was that this was about Tim Horton's.

I'm actually surprised to find from the article that Tim's is more Canadian than I thought, and that the competitor in the "which country owns Tim's" sweepstakes is actually not the US but Brazil. Which, if I'm being honest, I'm okay with, for one very obvious reason: if I still fundamentally believe that trade between countries is a good thing, then foreign ownership or partial foreign ownership is not automatically a bad thing. It's only a bad thing if that foreign entity is someone I don't trust, and in this case guess who's at the top of the list these days? It's not Brazil, I can tell you that.

That said, it's all a moot point because there are plenty of other reasons not to buy Tim Horton's that have nothing to do with whether a foreign country owns them or not. For example, the historical labour practices of some of their franchisees.
posted by chrominance at 10:44 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]

Also, just to make all this even more confusing: the CBC article says 3G Capital is a Brazilian capital firm. But the Tod Maffin video If only I had a penguin posted above says 3G Capital is an AMERICAN capital firm (and that video knows about the CBC article from the OP, Maffin actually references it to determine non-3G/Canadian ownership). Wikipedia says their headquarters are in New York City. So which is it, is 3G American or Brazilian?
posted by chrominance at 10:53 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]