Trump urges Supreme Court to limit judges' power to impede his agenda
March 21, 2025 11:59 PM Subscribe

With sweeping actions, Trump tests US constitutional order [ungated] - "With a Congress controlled by Trump's fellow Republicans largely falling in line behind his agenda, federal judges often have emerged as the only constraint on the president's torrent of executive actions since his January inauguration."

The nation's founders set up a system of government in the Constitution with three co-equal branches, a design intended to have the executive, legislative and judicial branches serve as a check on the power of the others.

Georgetown University law professor David Super said Trump "clearly is making a very aggressive move to expand presidential powers at the expense of the other two branches of government."

The Trump administration's remaking of the constitutional order is "happening in incremental steps," according to American University Washington College of Law professor Elizabeth Beske.

The Trump administration has argued that it is the judiciary, not the president, that is overreaching. Trump urged the Supreme Court on Thursday to limit the ability of federal judges to issue injunctions blocking his administration's actions nationwide...

Trump urges Supreme Court to curtail judges' ability to issue nationwide injunctions - "Donald Trump urged the Supreme Court on Thursday to curtail the ability of federal judges to issue injunctions blocking his administration's actions nationwide, marking the latest sign of tension between the Republican president and the U.S. judiciary. Federal courts are hearing more than 100 lawsuits challenging various initiatives by Trump and his administration since he returned to the presidency in January, with some judges imposing nationwide injunctions to block policies such as his move to curtail automatic birthright citizenship... Tensions have flared between the president and the judiciary as his sweeping assertions of executive power encounter judicial roadblocks."

Law Firm Paul, Weiss Capitulates - "Lawyers in a free society must not be subjected to official punishment in retaliation for representing causes adverse to those in power. Nor should authorities apply coercive pressure to get them to brand as wrongdoers colleagues whom no court or bar authority has found to have committed misconduct. Nor should they come under coercive pressure to represent clients and causes favored by those authorities. But all of that has just happened."

What is clear is that Trump himself believes that his threats have caused a prominent law firm to back down on vital principles of independence and that he has used the powers of the presidency to gratify his wish for revenge against a particular lawyer for having fought him in court. This is calculated to chill and deter vigorous courtroom advocacy against Trump and his allies. It is an abuse of presidential power that imperils the constitutional rights of all Americans. We can only hope that other litigants, if not this one, will press federal courts for rulings speedily vindicating those constitutional rights.

Why Law Firm Paul Weiss Pleaded Its Case With Trump, and Not With a Court - "The capitulation by one of the top U.S. firms—and a high-profile Trump adversary during his first term—reflects deep worries across the business world that being threatened by the president could lead to financial ruin. The deal raises the prospect that a victorious White House will feel emboldened to press ahead with additional sanctions against others who represented Trump’s opponents or otherwise tangled with the administration. A number of firm leaders also expressed dismay that Paul Weiss had set a new price for peace."

Other firms could soon face a similar dilemma. Trump administration officials have created a list of more than a dozen law firms that they may target with executive orders, according to people familiar with the planning. At least one of the targeted firms has been looking for a Washington lobbyist with close ties to Trump.

Paul Weiss is the third major firm targeted by Trump so far for ties to his political and legal adversaries. First was Covington & Burling, which provided legal counsel to former special counsel Jack Smith. Then came Perkins Coie, which drew Trump’s ire for its work on Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, including its role in working with an opposition-research firm that compiled a discredited dossier against Trump.

Law firms have been in discussions about a collective show of support for Perkins Coie, but some have expressed reservations about signing a brief without a critical mass.

Trump withdraws order targeting Paul Weiss, says law firm promised free legal work - "Paul Weiss told a judge in New Jersey on Wednesday that it was fired by a client it was defending in a bribery case because of Trump's order. Perkins Coie in its lawsuit said seven of its clients had left the firm due to the order against it. Leslie Levin, a University of Connecticut law professor and expert on the legal profession, said Paul Weiss likely feared a client exodus. 'There was no playbook for how to deal with this,' she said."

Trump's deal with law firm Paul Weiss sparks alarm among lawyers - "Lawyers at some companies and law firms skewered Paul Weiss online for appearing to capitulate to Republican President Donald Trump by scrapping internal diversity policies and donating $40 million in free legal work to support his administration's causes. 'Embarrassed to be associated with this firm today,' a lawyer at Amazon Web Services who previously worked at Paul Weiss wrote on LinkedIn."

Some US lawyers decry Trump orders as their law firms stay silent - "U.S. President Donald Trump's targeting of major law firms over their diversity policies and political clients has earned condemnation from law professors, bar associations and a federal judge - but not, so far, from other law firms. Instead, the public reaction from large corporate firms has come mainly from a few of their lawyers, via LinkedIn posts and an online effort involving junior lawyers at Skadden and other firms to encourage a larger institutional response."

The bar has been caught off guard by how quickly Trump has moved "to dismantle the rule of law and American-style checks and balances in this country," said Daniel McCuaig, an antitrust litigator at plaintiffs law firm Cohen Milstein Sellers & Toll.

McCuaig, speaking on his own behalf, said lawyers especially "need to start raising their voices now to turn this tide."

earlier...
US judge temporarily blocks Trump order targeting law firm Perkins Coie - "Perkins Coie, founded in Seattle, sued Trump's administration on Tuesday, arguing that his executive order violated the firm's rights under the U.S. Constitution, including protections for free speech, free association and due process. Trump's order called for a government review intended to end contracts Perkins Coie currently holds with various federal agencies and a review intended to end the government contracts of the firm's clients. According to the lawsuit, at least seven Perkins Coie clients, including a major government contractor, have already withdrawn legal work because of Trump's order or were considering doing so, costing the firm 'significant revenue.'"

Judge Halts Trump Order Targeting Law Firm Perkins Coie - "Trump's order had the potential to ripple through the legal industry, sending the message that law firms represent the president's enemies 'at their own peril.' 'I'm sure many in the legal industry are watching in horror what Perkins Coie is going through here,' Howell said."

US civil rights agency targets 20 big law firms with demand for DEI data - "Law school diversity policies have also come under fire from the administration. U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi has threatened to revoke the American Bar Association's status as the government-designated accreditor of U.S. law schools, citing its requirement that schools provide 'full opportunities' for racial minorities and have a diverse student body." (FCC's Carr Threatens to Block M&A for Companies With DEI)

Trump's Vengeful Moves Are Chilling the Bar's Independence - "The cause of these law firms is the cause of an independent bar that's free, willing, and able to represent clients vigorously against the federal government, its officials, and powerful candidates. That should make it everyone's cause, especially those who cherish liberty, limited government, and the rule of law... In many other countries that have lost their freedom, the rulers have made it an early order of business to intimidate, if not do away with, the sectors of the bar that were willing to represent opposition and dissident clients and challenge government actions. It is alarming to see the United States moving rapidly down this path."

Pesky Judges - Does this constitute the start of a constitutional crisis? Many are saying yes. 'This is not a set of procedural missteps. It is not simple incompetence. It is malice toward our constitutional structure,' writes Corbin Barthold, a lawyer with TechFreedom. 'Simply put, the Trump administration has begun its defiance of the courts in earnest.'"

Republicans May Regret Undermining Judicial Independence - "The response that Musk prefers—firing any judge who dares to disagree with him—is a naked attempt to intimidate the judicial branch."

Musk group offers $100 to Wisconsin voters ahead of pivotal state Supreme Court election - "A group funded by billionaire Elon Musk is offering Wisconsin voters $100 to sign a petition in opposition to 'activist judges,' a move that comes two weeks before the state's Supreme Court election and after the political action committee made a similar proposal last year in battleground states... Philadelphia's district attorney sued in an attempt to stop the payments under Pennsylvania law. But a judge said that prosecutors failed to show that the effort was an illegal lottery and it was allowed to continue through Election Day."

Trump floats sending Tesla attackers to El Salvador prisons as White House rallies to defend Musk - "President Donald Trump suggested that people found guilty of damaging Tesla properties could serve their sentences in El Salvador prisons. The threat came after Attorney General Pam Bondi touted federal cases against people accused of setting fire to Tesla cars and property, and Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick urged people to buy Tesla stock." (Howard Lutnick touts Elon Musk's Starlink for US broadband scheme)

Trump asks US Supreme Court to intervene in his bid to curb birthright citizenship - "There are moments in the world's history where people look back and ask, 'Where were the lawyers, where were the judges?"

Trump administration seeks to disqualify judge in law firm case - "President Donald Trump's administration on Friday asked the federal judge overseeing a challenge to Trump's executive order targeting law firm Perkins Coie to step aside from the case, accusing her of a 'pattern of hostility' toward the president."

Trump Wants Judges Impeached. Can That Happen? - "The House can impeach judges, just like the president or any other public officials, with a simple majority of votes. The Constitution directs the Senate to hold impeachment trials after the House passes its resolution, and the House members named as impeachment managers present the case against the judge to the upper chamber. The Senate then decides whether to reject the impeachment articles, which acquits the judge, or remove him or her from the bench."

The House last voted to impeach a judge over ideological differences in 1804, when President Thomas Jefferson, a Democratic-Republican, pushed allies in Congress to bring articles against Supreme Court Associate Justice Samuel Chase, a staunch Federalist. However, the Senate ultimately acquitted him, setting a more than 200-year precedent that judges are not removed from office for partisan reasons.

Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts referenced the Chase precedent in his rebuke of Trump’s call to impeach Boasberg earlier this week. Roberts, in a rare public statement, said “it has been established that impeachment is not an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision.”

How Trump's firings could upend a 90-year-old Supreme Court ruling limiting his power - "The question that these firings raise is whether a Supreme Court decision known as Humphrey's Executor v. United States should stand. In 1935, the court unanimously upheld Congress' requirement that presidents can fire members of independent boards or commissions only for cause, such as inefficiency, malfeasance or neglect of duty."

also btw...

Trump Fires Two Democratic FTC Commissioners - "The move runs counter to current Supreme Court precedent that says the FTC’s commissioners can only be removed for cause. The Trump administration has been clear that it is eager to see that precedent revisited."
Jerome Powell Says Trump Can't Fire Him. That Might Change - "On Tuesday, the Trump administration dismissed the Federal Trade Commission's two Democratic commissioners, Alvaro Bedoya and Rebecca Kelly Slaughter. The firings are the most direct challenge yet to a 1935 Supreme Court decision that paved the way for the independent agencies that now populate the US government. The ruling, known as Humphrey’s Executor, let Congress give FTC commissioners job protections that shield them from dismissal except for neglect or malfeasance. In an interview with Bloomberg TV, Slaughter, who plans to sue, said her dismissal has ramifications beyond the antitrust and consumer protection agency. 'There is no legal difference between Jerome Powell and me,' she said. 'If the president can legally remove me, he can legally remove Jerome Powell.'"

Trump's Policies Are Making Project 2025's Vision a Reality - "On the campaign trail, President Trump distanced himself from Project 2025's radical conservative vision. Now, more than half of his executive orders align with recommendations made in the Heritage Foundation’s blueprint."

posted by kliuless (80 comments total) 52 users marked this as a favorite

A lawyer at Skadden Arp wrote a 'conditional resignation' letter worth reading. Which that firm chose to convert to an immediate firing.

What. Are. We. Doing.

Colleagues, if you question if it is as bad as you think it is, it is ten times worse. Whether what we measure is the cowardice in face of lost profits, or the proximity to authoritarianism, or the trauma inflicted on our colleagues who are nonwhite, or the disappointment that I feel in this moment, take what you suspect and multiply it by ten. Act accordingly.

posted by away for regrooving at 12:54 AM on March 22 [36 favorites]

There's also crazy takeover of the Institute of Peace, a non-government organization. Trump is just wrong that he can stop paying funds authorized by congress. It's far more wrong to just violently take over an NGO. It's just an authoritarian takeover at this point.
posted by netowl at 1:26 AM on March 22 [17 favorites]

It’s not like the U.S. hasn’t gone to a civil war before due to its constitutional failings. Pretty much every issue today can be directly tied to reconstruction failing and allowing Jim Crow to take ahold in the South.
posted by roguewraith at 3:34 AM on March 22 [34 favorites]

Is that it? Your much vaunted Constitution was nothing more than a gentleman's agreement, to be followed only so long as people felt like it?

What are the checks on this regime's exercise of power?
posted by epo at 4:18 AM on March 22 [8 favorites]

Members of the U.S. armed forces swear an oath to the constitution, not the president, so that’s where this will end up. No idea how it will go, but it will be decided by guns.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:00 AM on March 22 [6 favorites]

The only things that stop this are widespread economic turmoil or widespread political violence. The people presently in power are finally aware that there are few limitations as long as they 1) move too fast for the courts of law and public opinion to keep up 2) move just slowly enough not to cause complete panic in the public, and 3) isolate and change their targets frequently so as not to panic Capital.
posted by Room 101 at 5:24 AM on March 22 [11 favorites]

What are the checks on this regime's exercise of power?

According to the eminently useless Chuck Schumer, the manga fucking carta.

Which, if that were so, why does this country exist?
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:31 AM on March 22 [5 favorites]

There's also crazy takeover of the Institute of Peace, a non-government organization.

Facilitated by DC's Metropolitan Police Department acting as muscle.

Washington area people take note: DC cops have sided with Trump.
posted by reedbird_hill at 5:43 AM on March 22 [13 favorites]

Hands down, the worst president in my lifetime. Starting with Ike Eisenhower, whom I hardly remember as president.
posted by DJZouke at 5:44 AM on March 22 [1 favorite]

Darkly funny that SCOTUS helped enable this with Presidential immunity and may now be looking at unfriendly knocks on the door at 3am.

There's a moment coming up, if Boasberg continues pushing and doesn't flinch: enforcing contempt. If the Marshalls stay put, it's over. If they arrest the person in contempt, there's life yet for the time being.

Judges are only human though, so who knows how many rulings the "now your skin is in the game" doctrine will impact as judges weigh their safety against the loyalty of local and federal cops.
posted by Slackermagee at 5:53 AM on March 22 [14 favorites]

I read “Republicans May Regret Undermining Judicial Independence”, wondering what the writer could possibly come up with, and wasn’t surprised to find out that all they had was “Democrats might come back into power someday.”

Paul Weiss being extorted by Trump for $40 million isn’t the most depressing thing about this. The most depressing thing is that in 12 months it will be too commonplace to remark upon.

Meanwhile, Columbia has completely capitulated: effectively putting its Arab studies department into receivership and agreeing to hire special cops as enforcers in case any of the students still think they have freedom of speech.

Get used to it. This is America now.
posted by Lemkin at 6:01 AM on March 22 [21 favorites]

Is that it? Your much vaunted Constitution was nothing more than a gentleman's agreement, to be followed only so long as people felt like it?

Yes. That’s what all constitutions are.
posted by orange ball at 6:04 AM on March 22 [48 favorites]

Business will not save us.
Rich individuals will not save us.
Law firms will not save us.
Congress will not save us.
Universities will not save us.

Grassroots movements made up of regular people are where the resistance has to happen.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:04 AM on March 22 [21 favorites]

USMS/DOJ can fire any Marshals willing to carry out Boasberg's orders. Bondi/Trump can fire any head of the USMS not willing to comply with that.

The fired Marshals can sue, lol/sob.

widespread economic turmoil

Tax protest + bank run (when everyone liquidates to avoid garnishment)? Then the oligarchs gain more wealth and power via people turning to crypto, I suppose.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:04 AM on March 22 [2 favorites]

Yes. That’s what all constitutions are.

if only we had given the constitution more guns so it could defend itself from tyranny
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:07 AM on March 22 [9 favorites]

Members of the U.S. armed forces swear an oath to the constitution, not the president, so that’s where this will end up.

That’s where my thinking always ends up, but I also have severe doubts the military will respond.

I have so many ideas for ads and videos designed to gently remind the military of their oath and nudge them to action. But, I have no means of producing them or pitching them to those who do (hello, lincoln project?)

This timeline is seriously crazy-making apparently.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:10 AM on March 22

but if you're in the US and opposed to Trump then go buy a gun while you still can. And an optic for it.

What a horribly useless and dangerous suggestion. A gun will never save you. Certainly not from this government.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:13 AM on March 22 [13 favorites]

I'm sure that's what the Jews said in Budapest and Warsaw, too. In any event, it may save you from their self-appointed servitors before things get that far.

It is also good to be counted. They think they have the guns and the numbers.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:14 AM on March 22 [4 favorites]

Consitutions are pieces of paper. Instututions are customs and habits. Neither can save you.

Democracy lives or dies depending on the willingness of the people to defend it at the cost of their short term security and safety.
posted by NotAYakk at 6:16 AM on March 22 [13 favorites]

Uh, have you read it? I don't agree with Heller, but I've acted in accord with it.

I would have never believed it would be me saying this even 10 or so years ago, but if you're in the US and opposed to Trump then go buy a gun while you still can. And an optic for it.

Guns are lovely, I'm sure, but the government has an air force? They can scoop you up based on the patterns your phone has been dutifully recording for years (has Apple/Google ever suggested your route when you step into your car at a certain time on a certain day?). They are, I assume, figuring out who is loyal to Trump and who is not (from all the military firings and re-assignments). And it is unlikely that the ~1/3 to 1/2 of the country in thrall to this cult will be on-side with you.

This was an issue beyond guns after WWII and likely before. It's not like the Whiskey Rebellion, for all the Pittsburgh school teachers I had seemed to lionize it, worked.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:17 AM on March 22 [6 favorites]

That is not the point. I'm not some cosplaying militia fantasist. Do what you think makes sense.

I'm no longer willing to be unarmed while the right wing that has taken over the country is heavily armed, actively attacking the rule of law, deputizing oligarch's security guards, and disappearing people.

It's weird to me that people don't think past the shooting at F-16s part to the aftermath of every recent major revolution or war: insurgency.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:19 AM on March 22 [8 favorites]

Democracy lives or dies depending on the willingness of the people to defend it at the cost of their short term security and safety.

Solzhenitsyn:

And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.

posted by Lemkin at 6:21 AM on March 22 [39 favorites]

You know what? You're fucked. There is no way back from here. America is over. Your holier-than-gospel Constitution is a 200-and-some year old scrap of toilet paper, and you've known that since Nixon walked. So now, you're finding out what it was like to be in Afghanistan or Iraq in the 2000s, as your civil norms are torn down around your ears. Mission accomplished.

Hey, it only took 3 comments for smug doomerism! By your use of the second person, I infer you’re not American and/or do not live in the United States and your scintillating and insightful commentary is proof that you have no idea what’s going on here. So keep it to yourself, okay?
posted by rhymedirective at 6:31 AM on March 22 [38 favorites]

On the institutional side, at least some orders of the federal courts could conceivably be acted upon and carried out within willing states if the Marshals sit on their hands.

Though that won't get people out of CBP custody.

It could also trigger a further crisis of the heavily right-leaning state and local LEOs refusing to act, even in blue states. They could be fired, but then are a bunch of lefties and libs going to sign up to be cops?
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:38 AM on March 22 [1 favorite]

With all due respect to Solzhenitsyn, if you talk to any white male republican, you will swiftly discover they already think that. They are prepared for doomsday but are mortally terrified to take an inner city bus. In their mind, their world is entirely comprised of a small, untrustworthy group of people like them, and a dense forest of bitter enemies who outmatch them at every turn.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:50 AM on March 22 [16 favorites]

The Rude Pundit:

We are now on our way to becoming like Russia: a nuclear-armed corrupt shithole that is despised and feared and despised even more because of the fear of our crazy motherfuckers doing crazy shit. No nation will ever trust the United States on any long-term basis because why the hell would they? If we're so pathetic that we can't put the leader of a coup behind bars and bring his entire irrational movement to heel, if our courts and our Congress are beholden to the evil dickstain in the White House, under threats from the richest supervillain in history, if we might elect another Trump-like garbage sack even after chasing him from office (if that should happen), if every deal, every treaty, every alliance, every humanitarian outreach, even, is subject to the whims of the leadership, with no permanence and ready to be tossed aside when oligarchs with totalitarian ambitions trick enough rubes to vote for them, then I'd advise every sane country to run as fucking far away from us as you can.

posted by Lemkin at 6:51 AM on March 22 [27 favorites]

Guns do work sitting in a safe. There are more guns in private hands in the US than there are people. A very large majority of them are in the hands of conservatives.
posted by constraint at 6:54 AM on March 22 [2 favorites]

Uh, have you read it? I don't agree with Heller, but I've acted in accord with it.

after posting it, i thought my joke might be misinterpreted, but i never really considered that one misinterpretation could be that i, american commenter on mefi, am unaware of the 2nd ammendment
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:58 AM on March 22 [3 favorites]

Well, it came on the heels of some non-US snark, and I didn't check your profile.

The post probably should be edited to add the latest salvo:

WHITE HOUSE - 3/21/25

MEMORANDUM FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY

Re: Preventing Abuses of the Legal System and the Federal Court

Lawyers and law firms that engage in actions that violate the laws of the United States or rules governing attorney conduct must be efficiently and effectively held accountable. Accountability is especially important when misconduct by lawyers and law firms threatens our national security, homeland security, public safety, orelection integrity. Recent examples of grossly unethical misconduct are far too common.

For instance, in 2016, Marc Elias, founder and chair of Elias Law Group LLP, was deeply involved in the creation of a false "dossier"....

...

The immigration system -- where rampant fraud and meritless claims have supplanted the constitutional and lawful bases upon which the President exercises core powers under Article II of the United States Constitution -- is likewise replete with examples of unscrupulous behavior by attorneys and law firms....

...

To address these concerns, I hereby direct the Attorney General to seek sanctions against attorneys and law firms who engage in frivolous, unreasonable, and vexatious litigation against the United States or in matters before executive departments and agencies of the United States. I further direct the Attorney General and the Secretary of Homeland Security to prioritize enforcement of their respective regulations governing attorney conduct and discipline....

...

I further direct the Attorney General to take all appropriate action to refer for disciplinary action any attorney whose conduct in Federal court or before any component of the Federal Government appears to violate professional conduct rules, including rules governing meritorious claims and contentions, and particularly in cases that implicate national security, homeland security, public safety, or election integrity.

In complying with this directive, the Attorney General shall consider the ethical duties that law partners have when supervising junior attorneys, including imputing the ethical misconduct of junior attorneys to partners or the law firm when appropriate.

I further direct that, when the Attorney General determines that conduct by an attorney or law firm in litigation against the Federal Government warrants seeking sanctions or other disciplinary action, the Attorney General shall, in consultation with any relevant senior executive official, recommend to the President, through the Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy, additional steps that may betaken, including reassessment of security clearances held by the attorney or termination of any Federal contract for which the relevant attorney or law firm has been hired to perform services.

I further direct the Attorney General, in consultation with any relevant senior executive official, to review conduct by attorneys or their law firms in litigation against the Federal Government over the last 8 years....

The memo relies on FRCP 11 and Model Rule 3.1 (a version of which most states have adopted).

Despite the irony that it is Trump in his official and individual capacities and his administrations who most routinely offends both rules, this also ignores Model Rule 3.8 on the special duties of prosecutors, and typical state rules regarding threats of prosecution or ethics reporting to gain an advantage in a civil litigation.

Also, the Attorney General and DHS are not involved in "enforcement of attorney conduct or discipline" except as to their own ranks; and maybe to some limited extent administrative tribunals.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:13 AM on March 22 [13 favorites]

have they deported any immigration lawyers yet?
posted by ryanrs at 8:07 AM on March 22 [1 favorite]

but if you're in the US and opposed to Trump then go buy a gun while you still can. And an optic for it.

No, that's useless. What might be a bit less useless is joining your state's state guard or national guard regimen They're what you might call a well organized militia. I don't know that it would be much more effective but certainly better than just having a gun.
posted by VTX at 8:33 AM on March 22 [4 favorites]

Members of the U.S. armed forces swear an oath to the constitution, not the president, so that’s where this will end up.

Why would one sector of the population behave wildly different from another? I do not see a wave of approbation from the monied class, not from law makers or judges. Teachers, tradespeople, higher learning institutions: mostly I see fear or capitulation. This is history, we are the people living it. The gun ownership question is for the eventuality of the shithead from down the block deciding, after weeks of this, he can come and impound your property. Or maybe Trump issues a decree that the Patriot Americans get special extralegal superpowers, they too get to shoot someone and get away with it. How are we not preparing for the worst?
posted by ginger.beef at 8:33 AM on March 22 [8 favorites]

Members of the U.S. armed forces swear an oath to the constitution, not the president, so that’s where this will end up. No idea how it will go, but it will be decided by guns.

I'll defer to anyone who has been in active military in the U.S. My understanding is that the President is the Commander-in-Chief of all branches of the military and there is a strong, STRONG deference to chain of command. If a president (any president) claimed that there was a huge number of traitors or spies or whatever and Martial Law needed to be enacted, a large number of the military would obey because it is what they are trained to do.

Again, I could be totally wrong about this and would love to hear from active/retired military (esp. our future expat c*rb) on this because I'm not trusting our military to protect us from any president, including the one currently in office who is dismantling the government.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 8:43 AM on March 22 [1 favorite]

mefi posters consoling each other in the gulag: "well at least we never had guns!" 😤
posted by glonous keming at 8:45 AM on March 22 [11 favorites]

Gun owning mefi posters consoling each other in the cemetery: "..."
posted by biffa at 8:49 AM on March 22 [2 favorites]

Being armed doesn't mean you can't choose to surrender if you'd actually prefer to get on the trains to the east.

It is starting to feel like many of the people who have clamored the loudest about the rights of the oppressed or the rule of law aren't willing to do much more when the oppressor abandons the law and comes for them, or their neighbors.

History teaches that meekness won't spare you.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:51 AM on March 22 [7 favorites]

Put differently: you can't be ideologically allergic to resisting, seeking, holding or using power in an open power struggle. One in which your opponent is plainly eliminationist in their aims.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:01 AM on March 22 [13 favorites]

Former Federal Workers Find an Outlet in Local Elections - "From spurned civil servants to frustrated residents, a surge of Americans are considering running for office."

Run For Something, a progressive nonprofit that recruits and supports young people to run for state and local office, reports unprecedented interest in its programs. Two weeks after Election Day, more than 10,000 people had already signed up to learn more about campaigning, and today, more than 20,000 people have shown interest in running. Emerge, which prepares Democratic women for political campaigns, says it has seen a 157% increase in interest between November and February relative to that same period a year earlier.

Run For Something, a progressive nonprofit that recruits and supports young people to run for state and local office, reports unprecedented interest in its programs. Two weeks after Election Day, more than 10,000 people had already signed up to learn more about campaigning, and today, more than 20,000 people have shown interest in running. Emerge, which prepares Democratic women for political campaigns, says it has seen a 157% increase in interest between November and February relative to that same period a year earlier.

like kendrick lamar says: "The sky is falling, the wind is calling / Stand for something or die in the morning" :P
posted by kliuless at 9:06 AM on March 22 [16 favorites]

What might be a bit less useless is joining your state's state guard or national guard regimen They're what you might call a well organized militia.

but imagine marching into battle under the banner of gavin newsom
posted by ryanrs at 9:17 AM on March 22 [6 favorites]

Here's one bit of legal advocacy you can do right now:

The Trump admin has almost entirely halted the Unaccompanied Children Program (UCP).

This decision completely terminates funding for legal counsel for 26,000 children, including infants and toddlers, forcing them to represent themselves in immigration court before a judge, against a government-trained attorney, without any counsel.

Please contact your reps to demand UCP legal services be restored, using this easy link (courtesy of the Acacia Center for Justice).
posted by splitpeasoup at 9:29 AM on March 22 [8 favorites]

What a horribly useless and dangerous suggestion. A gun will never save you.

it might help you take a couple with you, though
posted by pyramid termite at 9:32 AM on March 22 [9 favorites]

The Trashfuture podcast used to describe England by asking, “What if the Soviet Union, but shit and expensive?” After reading The Rude Pundit’s comment, I’m pretty much convinced that description applies to the US.
posted by stannate at 9:32 AM on March 22 [4 favorites]

but imagine marching into battle under the banner of gavin newsom

Join me in Minnesota and you get Tim Walz! :)
posted by VTX at 9:47 AM on March 22 [2 favorites]

Gavin Newsom's weird podcast arc isn't making that much of a prospect.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:50 AM on March 22

[thenation:] We have had the rule of law since the Magna Carta

the manga fucking carta.

Which, if that were so, why does this country exist?

[americanheritage:] The drafters of the Magna Carta were not graybeards sitting around debating grand philosophical notions about protecting the rights of the common man. Many of the Magna Carta’s provisions dealt entirely with feudal relationships, such as limitations on the extent to which the king could call on the barons to underwrite knighting the king’s eldest son or financing the marriage settlement of the king’s eldest daughter. The barons were seeking to protect their interests against a king who had pushed his claims of power too far.
posted by HearHere at 10:21 AM on March 22 [3 favorites]

What I love to see is my reps holding job fairs for the folks fired. Instead of doing anything else.

(I in fact do not love it, I hate it.)
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 10:31 AM on March 22 [4 favorites]

No idea how it will go, but it will be decided by guns.

Na, this will end not with a bang, but a whimper.

And whining. Lots and lots of whining about how somebody should do something.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:41 AM on March 22 [2 favorites]

"Surely people will do something" there's that town in Texas with the crypto mine on the power plant land right? The one where the noise is so loud that it's killing people and pets over time from stress and sleep deprivation? I could not find any related articles recently about Granbury, that town. So I'm guessing no one went and shot up the guard post for the power plant, then burned the crytomine sheds. And that's for something that is killing people and making life actively miserable. In Texas. McFucking Texas.

The way to be safe is to learn the language of country that needs workers in X field, and then also be training in the evenings for X field. Or keeping one's head down until an actual opposition party shows up.

This really feels like that old Onion article headline, this early into the fascist ascent.

"The powers of the state that have been refined for decades against individuals and groups, peaceful or armed, in vogue or hated, from within via Alphabet Agencies or from without by LEOs will continue as they have against Vietnam war protestors, the MOVE house, Ruby Ridge, the Ranchers siege, various labor actions, Iraq war protests, Occupy, Black Lives Matter, Gaza protests, Cop City, and more in a way that will crush you almost silently and without more than two weeks of outrage visible to Americans watching Fox News."

Versus

"No it won't."
posted by Slackermagee at 11:12 AM on March 22 [2 favorites]

No one in power is going to do anything. Law firms, universities, are all capitulating to whatever Trump wants. The dems are voting for Trumps nominees. The US is detaining US citizens for political reasons. The DC police are breaking into private corporations property because the president told them to.

Its been two months.

I don’t know what happens next.

The good news is that AOC is rising to the occasion and being more impressive than ever.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:30 AM on March 22 [16 favorites]

I am very, very curious to see what happens with all this when derp furor finally succumbs to a heart attack, stroke, or the syphilis finally eats what's left of his last few brain cells, or what. I really don't think the Republican party has anyone else who a- could have won a primary, and the general election, and also b- would get away with such open defiance of the courts.

Somehow, this still feels like an extremely fragile fascism, reliant on one easily manipulated figurehead to keep the cult going. I know it took an enormous amount of work from a huge amount of assholes to get us to this point, but there's one unifying figure who is, frankly, remarkable in his ability to rile people up, and somehow say everything his frothing base wants, even when he contradicts himself, while at the same time letting them cherry-pick the parts they like and discarding the parts they don't (ending social security, for instance). Unlike nazi Germany, I think he might be a Load-Bearing Lunatic.

I really don't know what happens when it's left up to some couch-fucking chuckle-fuck that nobody actually likes to try to keep this movement going.

I dunno. Musings. I hope I'm right that this fascist movement gets a whole lot harder to maintain without the orange menace, but I could easily be wrong.
posted by mrgoat at 11:36 AM on March 22 [14 favorites]

the manga fucking carta

It has to be said the Manga Carta was well ahead of its time and accessible to a largely non-literate population.
posted by Rumple at 11:56 AM on March 22 [16 favorites]

Keep your eye on the lawsuits. There are now 132 of them, and Trump has a long, long history as a legal loser. To date, Trump is losing the vast majority, with multiple judges concluding that Trump probably broke the law every four days. That's why there has been so much news about this judge or that one — regardless of who appointed them: Carter, Reagan, Obama or Biden — ruling that the Trump admin stop what they're doing until the case goes through the court system.

For a while, the Washington Post had categories of cases in a handy chart along with labels indicating the current status. I can no longer find it. Instead, everything I'm seeing is long-form and detailed, a lot of which can be hard to understand or retain. Vox has attempted to make things easier by urging readers to focus on just two Trump cases that will be heard by the Supremes: (1) The cancellation of birthright citizenship and (2) the cancellation of preapproved congressional spending (aka "impoundment.") In Vox's opinion, the odds of the Trump administration winning either are extremely low.

It's also worth keeping in mind that the Supremes don't want to disempower themselves — or other branches of the judiciary. That's why the Supremes have sent at least one case back to the lower courts. It's also why Chief Justice Roberts rebuked Trump's call for judicial impeachment.

"For more than two centuries, it has been established that impeachment is not an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision,” Roberts said in a statement released by the Supreme Court. “The normal appellate review process exists for that purpose."

According to Democracy Docket, judges also have a variety of legal tools to enforce rulings that don't depend on the Trump administration's ready compliance or the services of U.S. Marshalls under the aegis of the AG. For one, judges can independently charge members of the Trump administration with civil contempt, with penalties that include large fines and jail time. For another, they can appoint non-U.S. Marshalls to serve in that capacity to carry out subpoenas or arrests.
posted by Violet Blue at 1:03 PM on March 22 [11 favorites]

no no no not the magna carta the manga carta, it's the thing that says that the first pirate to find gol d. roger's treasure gets to keep it, it is a v. important historical document that must be respected
posted by Sperry Topsider at 2:20 PM on March 22 [8 favorites]

we're not talking about the maga carta are we?
posted by pyramid termite at 2:47 PM on March 22 [3 favorites]

> 1☮️
posted by HearHere at 2:54 PM on March 22

Join me in Minnesota and you get Tim Walz!

I can't say fighting for Master Smarmer of Dadtown is that enthusing now that he's not the VP candidate anymore. Or at least I'm not gonna pretend he was anymore. Tbh, he didn't really play beyond St. Paul and I wish he would go away like Kamala.
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 3:31 PM on March 22 [1 favorite]

Maga Carte Blanched. There, I ruined it.
posted by artdrectr at 3:32 PM on March 22 [1 favorite]

"Remember Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes exhausts and murders itself. There never was a Democracy Yet, that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to Say that Democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious or less avaricious than Aristocracy or Monarchy. It is not true in Fact and no where appears in history. Those Passions are the same in all Men under all forms of Simple Government, and when unchecked, produce the same Effects of Fraud Violence and Cruelty. When clear Prospects are opened before Vanity, Pride, Avarice or Ambition, for their easy gratification, it is hard for the most considerate Phylosophers and the most conscientious Moralists to resist the temptation. Individuals have conquered themselves, Nations and large Bodies of Men, never."

-John Adams. Letter to John Taylor, December 17, 1814.
posted by clavdivs at 4:21 PM on March 22 [8 favorites]

The most corrosive part of the Trump presidency is that everyone who sees how well it works when you just take what you want -- everyone, regardless of their politics -- starts to wonder, "Why the fuck am I not doing that shit?" And then it's just a race to the bottom. Imagine Trumps all the way down, smart and dumb, young and old, left and right. I'm not sure how long Trump stays in power in an environment where everyone behaves like Trump, but one thing the last several decades of American politics have taught me is there's always some worse guy.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:48 PM on March 22 [17 favorites]

There's a moment coming up, if Boasberg continues pushing and doesn't flinch: enforcing contempt. If the Marshalls stay put, it's over.
posted by Slackermagee

One more step: If the military do not act at that point, then it is over.
posted by Pouteria at 5:24 PM on March 22

A high percentage of the comments in this thread are feelings of anxiety and helplessness solidifying into acrimony aimed at people their authors would probably not normally want to alienate. It is unpleasant to see.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:56 PM on March 22 [10 favorites]

I can't say fighting for Master Smarmer of Dadtown is that enthusing now that he's not the VP candidate anymore. Or at least I'm not gonna pretend he was anymore. Tbh, he didn't really play beyond St. Paul and I wish he would go away like Kamala.

Couldn't disagree more with all of this.
posted by Gadarene at 6:51 PM on March 22 [12 favorites]

> maga carte blanche

devereaux.
posted by Sperry Topsider at 9:47 PM on March 22 [1 favorite]

, but one thing the last several decades of American politics have taught me is there's always some worse guy.
Don't worry, when the republicans choose someone worse, the Democrats can call on respected elder statesman donald trump to speak out against them. I'm sure it will work this time,
posted by Iax at 10:11 PM on March 22 [5 favorites]

Somehow, this still feels like an extremely fragile fascism

This piece about Trump, Putin and Patrimonialism made a lot of sense to me in describing what's happened and why these actions seem so bewildering.

(Article may be gated for some - apologies).
posted by freya_lamb at 12:42 AM on March 23

Trump's assault on the rule of law: 'the speed and intent is remarkable' - "The US president is testing constitutional limits and challenging the courts to stop him. Who will blink first?"

“This is moving a lot faster than any of us anticipated,” says Steven Levitsky, a Harvard scholar and co-author with Daniel Ziblatt of How Democracies Die. The capture of state institutions that took strongmen like Viktor Orbán or Recep Tayyip Erdoğan many years to accomplish, “Trump is trying to pull off in months”.

Moreover, a hostile seizure of the key government organs has never been tried in a wealthy and established democracy like America, he says. “Trump’s speed and intent is remarkable. Even when they happen slowly, such all-out assaults are hard to stop.”

[...]

“The takeover of the federal payments and personnel systems was a genius move,” says Rosa Brooks, a professor at Georgetown Law School. “Doge shows that you don’t need tanks in the street if your pension or grant has suddenly gone missing. If you can eliminate or control the entire government’s ability to hire and fire and issue payments and not issue payments, then you’ve done it. Who needs an army?”

Trump’s legal targets have also been shrewdly chosen. One of Columbia’s graduates, Mahmoud Khalil, was arrested earlier this month for allegedly aiding terrorists by organising protests where pro-Hamas literature was handed out. As a Muslim and an Arab, Khalil’s plight is unlikely to spark public outpourings. Yet as a green card holder, his defeat in court would give Trump licence to deport any permanent resident on whatever grounds he chose. US citizens would not be immune.

[...]

When Trump wants an institution closed, it happens fast. This week, the Voice of America was dismantled after more than 80 years. Most of Radio Free Asia employees were suspended. National Public Radio is also in the White House’s sights.

[...]

Two questions keep recurring in Washington. How much further will Trump go? And why is there such little pushback from his opponents?

On the first, there are plenty of shoes yet to drop. Trump has mostly confined his deportations to test cases, rather than sweeping communities up en masse as his supporters had hoped he might. “It turns out it’s not that easy to deport people,” says Kettl. “It can take several [Immigration and Customs Enforcement] agents to track down one or two individuals.”

Trump recently said he had the authority to use the US military for future round ups and is poised to invoke the Insurrection Act to deploy troops on the southern border and on America’s streets. Insiders say that his purge of senior brass is still in its early stages.

Trump’s oft-recited revenge plans against his enemies are yet to bear fruit, although his attorney-general, Pam Bondi, has become increasingly belligerent in her rhetoric against legal norms. Having only recently been confirmed, the FBI director Kash Patel, and his deputy, Dan Bongino, have yet to initiate any vengeful probes, though they are widely expected to do so soon.

Nor has Trump yet moved on the US Federal Reserve, which he has often mused about bringing under White House control.

How hard Trump feels able to push will ultimately depend on how much resistance he meets. Democrats, chief executives and civic leaders are conspicuously betting that the courts will erect roadblocks.

Yet the most fateful questions would likely be heard by the same Supreme Court that issued last year’s sweeping 6-3 ruling that granted Trump substantial immunity from criminal prosecution. Before his congressional address this month, Trump told Roberts, “Thank you again. Won’t forget it.”

The Democratic Party, lacking leadership and in a fractious mood, is perhaps investing the most faith in the law. But Trump’s appetite to play hardball keeps growing. In the past 10 days, he has stripped clearances and contracts from firms that have advised anyone on his enemies list. One such law firm, Perkins Coie, says it has suffered an exodus of corporate clients. Another, Paul Weiss, was reinstated only after agreeing to give his administration $40mn in pro bono advice. Dissenting judges, meanwhile, are branded as anti-national.

“Relying on judges is a mistake,” says Brooks of Georgetown University. “Democrats . . . are overinvested in the law and underinvested in the information space.”

News Services Like Voice of America Helped Save My Family - "For a WSJ reporter growing up in the U.S.S.R., the Chernobyl disaster showed how important objective Western news broadcasts can be."
Voice of America employees sue Trump administration over shuttered news outlets - "Voice of America journalists and their unions sued the Trump administration on Friday, saying that the shutdown of U.S.-funded news agencies violated the workers' First Amendment right to free speech... The rapid shutdown will embolden authoritarian regimes around the world, according to the lawsuit."
Since its inception to combat Nazi propaganda at the height of World War Two, Voice of America (VOA) grew to become an international media broadcaster, operating in more than 40 languages online, on radio and television, spreading U.S. news narratives into countries lacking a free press.

Voice of America, Radio Free Europe and Radio Free Asia had more than 425 million listeners every week before they were shut down, according to the complaint.
State Department Calls Off Advisory Meeting on Child Labor - "The US Department of State canceled a key meeting with executives from some of the country's biggest companies, as well as labor advocates, academics and other experts, to discuss combating human rights abuses in global supply chains, citing President Donald Trump's efforts to streamline the government."
Trump Administration Aims to Bring Back Detention Centers for Immigrant Kids - "The move to use jail-like facilities to hold children comes as the administration also tries to roll back legal services offered to unaccompanied minors."

The Trump administration is seeking to bring back juvenile detention centers for unaccompanied immigrant children, just as a critical contract providing legal services to these minors who enter the US without their parents is in jeopardy.

A request for information published this week said that the federal government is looking to solicit bids for beds in so-called “secure” facilities to detain teenagers between the ages of 13 and 17. The move comes as the administration is separately seeking to roll back a program that ensures unaccompanied children receive legal representation when maneuvering the complex and backlogged US immigration court system, according to two people familiar with the plans...

The organizations contracted to provide these legal services warned that getting rid of them could violate federal law and rules stipulating the government’s care of children, some of whom are as young as three years old.

“There seems to be pretty firm legal support for this program,” said Melissa Lopez, executive director of Estrella del Paso, which provides legal services to unaccompanied children in the El Paso area. The organization has at least 300 pending cases that would be impacted by the decision. “The idea that children could move through this process by themselves without any guidance, without any information, is frankly absurd.”

Social Security's new in-person identification requirement angers retirees and advocates - "The agency announced Tuesday that, beginning March 31, those who cannot properly verify their identity over the agency's 'my Social Security' online service will be required to visit an agency field office in person to complete the verification process. They also announced recently that Social Security field offices across the country will be closing. Of the 47 SSA field offices listed for closure on the website for the White House's Department of Government Efficiency, known as DOGE, 26 are slated for closure this year, with some taking effect as early as next month, according to an Associated Press analysis of the data. That change, in addition to the impending closure of field offices across the country, and a plan to reduce the agency workforce with mass layoffs, could result in massive delays to services, advocates say."
Social Security Says DOGE Ruling Could Force Agency to Shut Down - "The Trump administration is threatening to all but shut down the Social Security Administration in response to a judge’s ruling blocking activities by Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency — an action that could delay payments to millions of beneficiaries caught in the middle of the legal battle."
Social Security Head Calls Off Shutting Agency After Court Order - "Lee Saunders, president of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, one of the plaintiffs in the case, said in a statement that Dudek's initial response to Hollander's order was 'like a child who didn't get his way.' 'Rather than comply with a lawful court order, he wants to see millions of families, retirees and disabled individuals go hungry, suffer and potentially lose their homes all to curry favor with anti-worker billionaires,' Saunders said. 'It's despicable.'"

Bernie Sanders Lays Out Plan For Americans To Defeat Trumpism - "Trump is trying to intimidate the media and anyone who speaks out against him. He loves the media when they fawn all over him, but like other cowards, he can't stand to be criticized... the so-called leader of the free world is afraid of freedom. Well, Mr. President, if you are too cowardly and too vain to accept criticism, then get out of politics because that is precisely what democracy is about."

All right, I'm going to do something radical now, you ready? All right. I'm going to tell you the truth. I know pretty radical! But what the hell, you only go around once. I want to take a few minutes to describe to you what is really going on in this country and it's something you don't see much in the corporate media and you certainly don't hear discussed in the halls of Congress and that is in America today we have two separate Americas. On one hand we have an America in which the wealthiest people have never, ever in the history of our country had it so good. Today we have more income and wealth inequality than we have ever had. Today we have three multi-billionaires -- Mr Musk, Mr Bezos, Mr Zuckerberg -- these three combined own more wealth than the bottom half of American society: 170 million Americans. Now, we don't talk about it much for obvious reasons, but the idea that so few have so much and so many have so little is not what this country is supposed to be about.

[...]

My Friends, why is all of this happening? Why is it that the rich get richer and working class people die younger than they should? Well, that has everything to do with the fact that we're living in an oligarchic form of society. You know, I've been talking about that for a few years, but I think the rest of the world is catching on to what I was talking about. And the reason is you got to be dumb and blind not to see what's going on. You got a president Trump getting inaugurated and I must tell you one of the more bizarre experiences of my life was I was kind of pushed into the front row of that. And there's Trump and right behind him you got Musk, Bezos and Zuckerberg -- three wealthiest guys in the country -- and then behind them you got 13 other billionaires who Trump nominated to head up various government agencies. You know Abraham Lincoln talked about a government of the people, by the people, for the people. Well, Trump has a government of the billionaires, by the billionaires and for the billionaires. And what these guys are busy doing right now is going after Medicaid, going after Social Security, going after nutrition. Rich want to get richer and they don't care who they step on.

Now it is imperative that we fight Trump every step of the way. And by the way, by the way, it is not just on domestic issues this country has a 250 year history and never before have we had a president ally himself with a terrible dictator like Vladimir Putin. And on top of that, and on top of that, Trump wants to continue the disastrous policies of the Biden administration and provide more funding for the Netanyahu government to destroy the people of Gaza.

All right, our job though is not just to play defensive. We've got to get on the offensive as well. And that means having a vision of where we as the wealthiest nation on earth, the longest standing democracy on the planet, where do we want to go, what kind of nation do we want to become? And for a start the profound issue that must be dealt with is we must end this corrupt campaign finance system. Now I don't care if you're a Republican, Democrat or independent, I don't think there's anybody who thinks it vaguely makes sense that the richest guy in the world can spend $270 million to get Trump elected and then become the most powerful person in the government. It's not just Republicans, let's be clear, billionaires are funding the Democratic party and preventing that party from standing up for working families.

Bottom line: We need to end Citizens United, move to public funding of elections. Trump wants to give massive tax breaks to billionaires. Our view: It's time that the billionaires started paying their fair share of taxes. Republicans refuse to raise the minimum wage. We want to raise that minimum wage to a living wage: at least 17 bucks an hour. Musk and Bezos and others want to break unions. We believe in the trade union movement. Workers all over this country want to join unions, they're being stopped by the illegal activities of corporations. We've got legislation in that will end that, let's pass the Pro Act. Trump and his friends want to cut Social Security. We're going to expand Social Security by lifting the cap. Trump and his friends want to cut Medicaid. Well, we got a different idea: We're going to join the rest of the industrialized world. Guarantee healthcare to all. It's a human right. We're going to fight and pass Medicare for All, single payer. In a competitive global economy, we need the best educated workforce in the world. Young people should not go broke or in debt because they want to go to college or a trade school. We desperately need doctors and nurses and teachers and carpenters and sheet metal workers and construction workers. We need to make sure our people get educated without going into debt. We need to make our public colleges, universities and community colleges tuition free.

We need to save the planet! And create millions of good paying jobs by transforming our energy system...

[somebody faints here]

Are we ok? Ok, good. All right, thank you.

You know, Trump and his friends talk about freedom. Well, in a free society we must absolutely guarantee that it is the women of America who control their own bodies, not the government.

Look, let me end on this note, and the note is that this is a very difficult time in the history of our country. It's not the first difficult time that we've had. Remember we've gone through a Civil War. We've gone through slavery. We've gone through workers trying to form unions and getting beaten up and killed. We've gone through a Depression. We've gone through 1941, being attacked and not knowing how to respond. We've gone through a lot of things. But this is what I believe, the essence of I think what we are about: And that is, if we stand together, if we care about each other. If you care about my family, and I care about your family. If we don't believe that the goal in life is just to make billions and step on other people and to lie, cheat and steal. If we believe that love and compassion is what motivates us. Now, if there are some Republicans here, Republicans watching this on the live stream, Republicans did not vote for Donald Trump in order to give tax breaks to billionaires and cut Social Security. Believe me they didn't. And the reason that Trump has been successful and why demagogues around the world are successful, you know, what they do, they play one group off against another. They're telling you who you're going to hate. And our job is to do exactly the opposite. The right wing wants to divide us up based on the color of our skin or where we were born or our religion or our sexual orientation. And our job is to come together. Now, I don't have a PhD in mathematics but I do know this: that 99% is a hell of a lot larger number than 1%. So if we stand together -- are strong, are disciplined, are smart -- I have every, every reason to believe deeply in my heart that not only will we defeat Trumpism, but we can create the kind of nation that we deserve. Thank you very much.

posted by kliuless at 2:34 AM on March 23 [17 favorites]

“Spending by those visiting the U.S. this year could also "fall by 12.3%, amounting to a $22 billion annual loss," according to a February report by travel data company Tourism Economics” [npr/wayback]
posted by HearHere at 3:44 AM on March 23 [4 favorites]

If Trump really is demented in some way (in the sense of senility), and that leads to him actually issuing orders to use force against Canada or Denmark/Greenland or doing other things that antagonize the oligarchs clustered around him enough, he might be removed from power under the 25th Amendment without that kind of violence.

I will put this as calmly, rationally and devoid of even unintentional malice as I can -- put that idea out of your head, please, because it will not happen. Ever.

The 25th process involves the VP (who is aware of Trump's opinion of Veeps who do not acquiesce to his every desire, said opinion involving a rope) and >=50% of the Cabinet (who are all hand-picked Trump lickspittles) agreeing that it's time for Trump to go and sending a letter to Congress indicating that, thus placing giant neon signs on their backs that say TARGET US WITH THINGS THAT HURT. Trump can send an immediate letter back saying "I am not disabled" and resume his Presidency. If VP + half of the Cabinet reiterate "yes, you are" once more... it goes to Congress, which requires a 2/3 vote in both houses to confirm the disability and remove Trump as POTUS.

Even in the extraordinarily unlikely event that Vance and Cabinet members decide that they would enjoy being made examples of by a furious and vindictive Trump, I would like someone to show me one Republican in Congress, let alone a third of either house, who would vote against Trump and subject themselves to the same wrath and physical peril and death threats.

The 25th is meant for extreme circumstances, disabilities so obvious and profound that no rational person could debate them. What mental disabilities Trump has are viewed by Rs as a feature, not a bug.
posted by delfin at 9:42 AM on March 23 [9 favorites]

Which is why the Dem leadership failure to move quickly on the impeachment papers drafted by Rep. Omar while under siege on January 6th and instead spend two weeks hoping that the Republican cabinet would do their job for them by invoking the 25th is so fecklessly profound.
posted by Gadarene at 11:05 AM on March 23 [10 favorites]

The 25th process involves the VP (who is aware of Trump's opinion of Veeps who do not acquiesce to his every desire, said opinion involving a rope) and >=50% of the Cabinet (who are all hand-picked Trump lickspittles) agreeing that it's time for Trump to go and sending a letter to Congress indicating that, thus placing giant neon signs on their backs that say TARGET US WITH THINGS THAT HURT.

I think you have it exactly backwards. Vance is there as a lickspittle but he’s not Trump’s lickspittle, he’s Thiel’s lickspittle. He’s there as an insurance policy, a threat to Trump by Musk and Thiel. Just sign whatever they put in front of you and keep funneling royalties from tech bros through your family. Make a wave and they will destroy you. The two of them paid to put him in the White House because they both are flat out ineligible by not being natural born American citizens. Most of his cabinet is hand picked by Thiel and Musk, not him. There’s also some patronage position for the vain GOP co-conspirators/stooges who think they’re still banking prestige for future ambitions.

My guess is that if and when they decide they need to 25 him he just won’t be seen or heard from again. There will be a pretext that he’s had a stroke. He will be held effectively incommunicado. He will probably sedated, taken to Walter Reed, and what happens after that will be a blur of everything but the end result is that Trump has died. He won’t get the chance to foment his people into insurrection. Some might anyway.

They can pull his USSS detail temporarily. They can have the medical staff in on it. They can make it look to every outside observer that an old man in poor health was taken by natural causes.

But it’s kind of academic because the only reason Trump might get 25thed is if his usefulness in controlling his marks isn’t worth trouble he’s causing. And right now “I sign whatever they put in front of me” is pretty fucking clear to me that he’s not in any sort of control but still useful to them for whatever nefarious reason.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 12:08 PM on March 23 [6 favorites]

I will put this as calmly, rationally and devoid of even unintentional malice as I can -- put that idea out of your head, please, because it will not happen. Ever.

I tend to agree except in that if Vance and his uh donors, and the GOP in Congress and their donors want him gone, he'll be gone. he's doing exactly what they all want, so there's no need.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 12:27 PM on March 23 [3 favorites]

The two of them paid to put him in the White House because they both are flat out ineligible by not being natural born American citizens.

Keep an eye out for a presidential edict that addresses this hurdle. Sure, anyone can be the puppeteer behind the curtain, but we're approaching a time where nothing less than explicit power will suffice.
posted by ginger.beef at 2:40 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]

Why Did Elon Musk Go After Bunkers Full of Seeds?
posted by jeffburdges at 3:18 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]

I love that all the feds who are doing cool things on a shoe-string budget are coming forward to point out the public benefit of those cool things.

OTOH the fucking NYT and their bullshit headlines. Musk and DOGE don't give a shit about seed banks and you are misleading the public by implying they do. They want to drown the federal government in a bathtub and replace all public goods with either nothing or private sector replacements.
posted by suelac at 7:54 PM on March 23 [3 favorites]

DOGE's Real Goal Is Privatizing Government - "Trump's efforts to slash the federal workforce were never about efficiency — and they'll disproportionately hurt his own voters."

There is little need of a robust National Weather Service if forecasting is going to be farmed out to private companies. Ditto for the US Postal Service, which Trump has long wanted to privatize despite the fact that it is protected by the Constitution...

The conservative blueprint Project 2025 calls for dismantling NOAA and for NWS to “fully commercialize” its forecasting operations. But private companies cannot replicate the intricate network of satellites, research and partnerships found at NOAA, even if they could afford the expense. And companies who did so might decide to recoup their investment by charging more for, say, just-in-time storm warnings.

like with seed banks, the concept of public goods -- and why/how the government should provide/protect them -- is underappreciated.

consider...
Money in the Making of Humanity - "The idea of money as a source of social memory was also crucial for John Locke who figures prominently in our story as the philosopher who inaugurated the modern age of democratic revolutions. Locke was obsessed with money's role both in establishing a progressive social order and in subverting it as its criminal antithesis. Indeed he believed that money launched humanity from the state of nature onto the road to civil government. As long as men's possessions were limited to perishable products, the scope for property was restricted. Money, by offering a durable store of value convertible against all useful things, unleashed the potential for property accumulation and for the intergenerational transmission of inequality. For Locke then, money was indispensable to that development of cultural memory on which civilisation depends."

but what is wealth?

And therein lies the difference between a poor society and a prosperous one. It isn't the amount of money that a society has in circulation, whether dollars, euros, beads, or wampum. Rather, it is the availability of the things that create well-being—like antibiotics, air conditioning, safe food, the ability to travel, and even frivolous things like video games. It is the availability of these “solutions” to human problems—things that make life better on a relative basis—that makes us prosperous. This is why prosperity in human societies can’t be properly understood by just looking at monetary measures of income or wealth. Prosperity in a society is the accumulation of solutions to human problems. These solutions run from the prosaic, like a crunchier potato chip, to the profound, like cures for deadly diseases. Ultimately, the measure of a society's wealth is the range of human problems that it has found a way to solve and how available it has made those solutions to its citizens.

also btw...

Trump's 2025 seeks to reverse LBJ's 1965 - "It's dismantling the Great Society." (Letters from an American)
With Trump "We Are Watching the Deliberate Dismantling of American Democracy" - "Katie Couric: Despite the whirlwind of actions and controversies that have erupted from the White House it has been less than 100 days since Donald Trump became President (again). To help me assess what's at stake with Trump's latest decisions I sat down for an in-depth discussion with everyone's favorite history professor, Heather Cox Richardson."

oh and re: Trump, Putin and Patrimonialism...
-'There's A Word For This Kind Of Thing': AOC Bluntly Accuses Trump, Musk, GOP Of 'Corruption'
-Full Remarks: AOC in Tempe, Arizona

Mutual Aid 101 - "So mutual aid is the part of our ecosystem of liberation work where we're giving each other material support to survive existing systems. It's only mutual aid, in my opinion, if it's based in a shared analysis about the root causes of the crises. It's the systems that are to blame for the crisis, not the people in crisis. And to me it's only mutual aid if it also includes an invitation to collective action. Because if we know that it's the system that's the problem, and not people in crisis, then we know that to solve it we have to get together -- and fight." (shareable, gift thinking, previously)

Charity celebrates rich people's generosity. The origins of the charity system we have here in the United States and I think in Canada in Europe come from the invention of "poor relief" in a period where new forms of capitalism were displacing huge numbers of people from their land and then the rich people and the government, sometimes the church, establish like these little crumbs they give out to some people that legitimize and justify the system that say it's fair. And part of the way that works is that charity is about blaming and controlling people in crisis. While Mutual Aid would say people are unhoused because of a racist, colonial, capitalist housing market, charity systems are like: You're on house because there's something wrong with you. You need to take these pills. You need to become sober. You need to go to these trainings. You know, like this kind of thing. Like you're not housing ready. All this kind of idea of blaming people in crisis for the crisis.

Charity always divides people into deserving and undeserving. There's strict eligibility criteria to receive support. Like undocumented people can't get anything here. Or people with felony records can't get anything here. Or you have to have children or not have children or be sober. Their idea that it's okay for some people to be left in poverty and crisis but we'll give something out to the few people. Mutual Aid is like everything for everyone. We don't distinguish. We don't judge people for being in crisis and say that some deserve support.

Ultimately, charity justifies, legitimizes and sustains the existing systems of extraction. Mutual Aid wants to destroy those systems so that we don't have to live under these crises that are created by them.

A background idea for me that I want to put in the mix with us. We live under a myth that social change comes from governments, corporations, media and elites. And that the way it happens is that charismatic leaders appeal to elites and change their minds to win change. And in that story ordinary people don't really have a big role. All we can do is like vote or donate or post on social media or go to an occasional march. This is a very disempowering mythology about how change works that also doesn't track with the history of social movements.

in reality, social change happens when huge numbers of ordinary people organized to fight back and to make it impossible for the extraction and violence to continue. Ordinary people are at the center of change. And injustice is not a result of misunderstanding. It's not like, oh the elites just don't know that genocide kills people or that fossil fuels are destroying life on Earth or that poverty shortens your life. They know, you know. It's a result of domination. So if we organize ourselves as if our only goal is to convince elites, we will never win. And they would love for us to just stay there, begging for them to change things and take care of us. Instead, we're going to take care of ourselves and force change.

The final part of this reality is that our movements are only made of our relationships. Our opponents have all the money and the guns. The only thing we have is like all the people on Earth who are not winning out and who are actually really endangered, and dying, from these conditions. So, if we can't figure out how to stick together and stand up for each other and do solidarity, then they win it. It really matters how we treat each other because that's all we have is like whether we build trust, know how to share, make decisions together, have generative conflict. So we'll be talking about things related to that. You can't do Mutual Aid work and ignore human relationships -- just falls apart.

bobby seale making meals[1] :P
posted by kliuless at 12:43 AM on March 24 [8 favorites]

Trump asks US Supreme Court to intervene in his bid to curb birthright citizenship - "There are moments in the world's history where people look back and ask, 'Where were the lawyers, where were the judges?"

I hope they are also asking 'Where were the voters on election day?'
posted by Pouteria at 5:21 AM on March 24 [2 favorites]

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