Ain't No Place to Run To
March 24, 2025 7:52 PM Subscribe
The queer people who are buying guns to prepare for Trump’s America
Since Donald Trump’s reelection in November, nontraditional gun groups across the city and country have seen a flood of interest. The national Liberal Gun Club said it has received thousands of training requests since the election, more than in all of 2023. A spokesperson for the group estimated that roughly a quarter were from LGBTQ people.
Bang Bang Bang - Tracey Chapman
(continued)
In Philadelphia, in the waning weeks of the year, residents peppered local queer Facebook groups with questions about guns and training. The local chapter of the Socialist Rifle Association, a leftist analogue to the National Rifle Association, said it saw a surge in paid memberships; its regular classes about gun safety filled up immediately, so it added more. The head of the Delaware Valley chapter of the Pink Pistols, a longtime gay gun group with the slogan “Armed Gays Don’t Get Bashed,” said he received a sudden flurry of emails inquiring about gun training.
“There’s definitely a feeling among a lot of LGBT individuals: ‘If I can’t protect myself, who will?’” said Madeline Shearman, a trans woman based in Glen Mills who runs a casual and growing “2A social group” in Pennsylvania. “I feel that way myself.”
Stand Your Ground -- Roxane Gay
In Stand Your Ground I am thinking through gun ownership as a Black feminist, as a woman with a family, as a person in a community. I write about how much we crave safety and will do almost anything to feel safe, and how safety and privilege tend to go hand in hand which is to say that the less privilege you have, the more vulnerable you are. And sometimes, you have to recognize that, truly, no one is coming to save you, that the people whose sole job is to save you will all too often view you as a threat rather than the threatened.
Wisconsin Liberal Gun Club offers firearm training, even to those who don’t want anything to do with guns
“I come into this training as someone who does not want to ever handle a gun. I’m not interested in buying a gun. I’m not interested in practicing shooting a gun,” John said. “I really just want to see how I perform in an environment where guns are nearby. I want to understand how guns work and how guns feel, and with that comes a big emphasis on or a big need and request for safety.”
These are the faces of the rising number of Black gun owners in the U.S.
Black gun ownership in America dates back to before the country's founding.
...
And in recent years, more Black Americans are buying guns.
Chicago-based photographer Christian Lee wanted to present a specific picture of Black gun ownership. He called his project "Armed Doesn't Mean Dangerous."
LGBTQ+ Gun Owners Are Breaching the Right-Wing Arms Bubble
Historically, gun ownership has been concentrated among white men, particularly conservative men in rural areas. But that’s changing. Four years ago, NBC News found, about 24 percent of Black households owned guns. Now it’s 41 percent. The same percentage of Democratic households now own guns, up from 33 percent in 2004. David Yamane, a Wake Forest sociology professor, uses the term “Gun Culture 2.0” to describe this shift. His research shows that new gun owners are “more female, more racial minority, more urban.” There’s little specific data about how many in this cohort are LGBTQ+, Yamane says, but he wouldn’t be surprised if gun ownership among people like Rachel is becoming more common.
The rise of LGBTQ+ gun ownership: Safety, politics and identity
Pink Pistols is a group of LGBTQ+ and allied gun owners with around 45 chapters across the United States, including in Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston. They have two mottos: “Pick on someone your own caliber,” and “Armed queers don’t get bashed.”
The name comes from a 2000 Salon article by libertarian Jonathan Rauch, who wrote “homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them,” suggesting they call themselves “Pink Pistols task forces.”
Anti-Fascist. Armed to the Teeth
But the far right aren’t the only ones showing up armed. Across the country, marginalized individuals are forming groups like the John Brown Gun Club and Socialist Rifle Association that claim to be devoted to the idea of community defense. Their rationale is informed by the massacres at Colorado’s Club Q and Florida’s Pulse nightclub, and tempered by a long cultural distrust of the police, who they say have repeatedly failed to protect them from — and in some cases even perpetuated — right-wing hate.
A majority-Black town starts armed protection group after neo-Nazi rally
He’s a member of the Lincoln Heights Safety and Watch program, an initiative that started shortly after Feb. 7, when a neo-Nazi group waving swastika flags and shouting racial slurs demonstrated on a highway overpass just on the edge of this majority-Black community about 30 minutes north of Cincinnati.
Officers from Evendale, which borders Lincoln Heights, and the Hamilton County Sheriff’s Office both responded that day. No arrests were made, and Evendale police officers did not take down any names or identifying information from members of the neo-Nazi group, according to the mayor’s office. The Hamilton County Prosecutor’s office is currently investigating the incident to see if criminal charges could be filed.
Since Donald Trump’s reelection in November, nontraditional gun groups across the city and country have seen a flood of interest. The national Liberal Gun Club said it has received thousands of training requests since the election, more than in all of 2023. A spokesperson for the group estimated that roughly a quarter were from LGBTQ people.
Bang Bang Bang - Tracey Chapman
(continued)
In Philadelphia, in the waning weeks of the year, residents peppered local queer Facebook groups with questions about guns and training. The local chapter of the Socialist Rifle Association, a leftist analogue to the National Rifle Association, said it saw a surge in paid memberships; its regular classes about gun safety filled up immediately, so it added more. The head of the Delaware Valley chapter of the Pink Pistols, a longtime gay gun group with the slogan “Armed Gays Don’t Get Bashed,” said he received a sudden flurry of emails inquiring about gun training.
“There’s definitely a feeling among a lot of LGBT individuals: ‘If I can’t protect myself, who will?’” said Madeline Shearman, a trans woman based in Glen Mills who runs a casual and growing “2A social group” in Pennsylvania. “I feel that way myself.”
Stand Your Ground -- Roxane Gay
In Stand Your Ground I am thinking through gun ownership as a Black feminist, as a woman with a family, as a person in a community. I write about how much we crave safety and will do almost anything to feel safe, and how safety and privilege tend to go hand in hand which is to say that the less privilege you have, the more vulnerable you are. And sometimes, you have to recognize that, truly, no one is coming to save you, that the people whose sole job is to save you will all too often view you as a threat rather than the threatened.
Wisconsin Liberal Gun Club offers firearm training, even to those who don’t want anything to do with guns
“I come into this training as someone who does not want to ever handle a gun. I’m not interested in buying a gun. I’m not interested in practicing shooting a gun,” John said. “I really just want to see how I perform in an environment where guns are nearby. I want to understand how guns work and how guns feel, and with that comes a big emphasis on or a big need and request for safety.”
These are the faces of the rising number of Black gun owners in the U.S.
Black gun ownership in America dates back to before the country's founding.
...
And in recent years, more Black Americans are buying guns.
Chicago-based photographer Christian Lee wanted to present a specific picture of Black gun ownership. He called his project "Armed Doesn't Mean Dangerous."
LGBTQ+ Gun Owners Are Breaching the Right-Wing Arms Bubble
Historically, gun ownership has been concentrated among white men, particularly conservative men in rural areas. But that’s changing. Four years ago, NBC News found, about 24 percent of Black households owned guns. Now it’s 41 percent. The same percentage of Democratic households now own guns, up from 33 percent in 2004. David Yamane, a Wake Forest sociology professor, uses the term “Gun Culture 2.0” to describe this shift. His research shows that new gun owners are “more female, more racial minority, more urban.” There’s little specific data about how many in this cohort are LGBTQ+, Yamane says, but he wouldn’t be surprised if gun ownership among people like Rachel is becoming more common.
The rise of LGBTQ+ gun ownership: Safety, politics and identity
Pink Pistols is a group of LGBTQ+ and allied gun owners with around 45 chapters across the United States, including in Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston. They have two mottos: “Pick on someone your own caliber,” and “Armed queers don’t get bashed.”
The name comes from a 2000 Salon article by libertarian Jonathan Rauch, who wrote “homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them,” suggesting they call themselves “Pink Pistols task forces.”
Anti-Fascist. Armed to the Teeth
But the far right aren’t the only ones showing up armed. Across the country, marginalized individuals are forming groups like the John Brown Gun Club and Socialist Rifle Association that claim to be devoted to the idea of community defense. Their rationale is informed by the massacres at Colorado’s Club Q and Florida’s Pulse nightclub, and tempered by a long cultural distrust of the police, who they say have repeatedly failed to protect them from — and in some cases even perpetuated — right-wing hate.
A majority-Black town starts armed protection group after neo-Nazi rally
He’s a member of the Lincoln Heights Safety and Watch program, an initiative that started shortly after Feb. 7, when a neo-Nazi group waving swastika flags and shouting racial slurs demonstrated on a highway overpass just on the edge of this majority-Black community about 30 minutes north of Cincinnati.
Officers from Evendale, which borders Lincoln Heights, and the Hamilton County Sheriff’s Office both responded that day. No arrests were made, and Evendale police officers did not take down any names or identifying information from members of the neo-Nazi group, according to the mayor’s office. The Hamilton County Prosecutor’s office is currently investigating the incident to see if criminal charges could be filed.
And of all these new people on ‘our side’ getting guns, the most likely use will still be suicide, not self defense.
Signed, a gay man who learned to shoot since the last election. I never want to own one but I finally accepted that living in the USA, it’s irresponsible not to know how they work.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 8:27 PM on March 24 [38 favorites]
Signed, a gay man who learned to shoot since the last election. I never want to own one but I finally accepted that living in the USA, it’s irresponsible not to know how they work.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 8:27 PM on March 24 [38 favorites]
I understand why this is happening but this is sad in many ways.
posted by storybored at 8:39 PM on March 24 [13 favorites]
posted by storybored at 8:39 PM on March 24 [13 favorites]
It’s weird to see Lincoln Heights described as “30 minutes north of Cincinnati” when 1) it’s actually in Cincinnati and 2) it’s only about 15 minutes from government square downtown. I thought I remembered Lincoln Heights from growing up nearby and thought, “30 minutes is well outside 275.”
But cincinnati is an incredibly racist and segregated city; that much is accurate.
I will say, the earlier stat of only 24 percent of Black households having guns compared to 40~ percent now makes me wonder who was doing the asking. All the Black and brown households I know have guns, but they wouldn’t tell a white reporter or poll worker that.
It reminds me of the 1980s when WaPo columnist William Raspberry wrote all those pieces about gun control, and then he shot a guy inside his house and everybody thought he was a hypocrite. But is it hypocritical to want state violence to work for you, under the social contract, while being realistic about whether it actually will?
posted by toodleydoodley at 8:54 PM on March 24 [16 favorites]
But cincinnati is an incredibly racist and segregated city; that much is accurate.
I will say, the earlier stat of only 24 percent of Black households having guns compared to 40~ percent now makes me wonder who was doing the asking. All the Black and brown households I know have guns, but they wouldn’t tell a white reporter or poll worker that.
It reminds me of the 1980s when WaPo columnist William Raspberry wrote all those pieces about gun control, and then he shot a guy inside his house and everybody thought he was a hypocrite. But is it hypocritical to want state violence to work for you, under the social contract, while being realistic about whether it actually will?
posted by toodleydoodley at 8:54 PM on March 24 [16 favorites]
If you're interested in community defense, the SRA and the JBGC are great organizations, but check into your local chapters, because the quality (like local chapters of any chaptered organization) varies widely.
But look: almost every queer/trans person i see who doesn't already own a gun but is looking at getting one because of current events is entirely realistic about their chances of ever successfully defending their life with it. The hope i frequently hear expressed is that at the very least, when armed agents of the state (or fascist paramilitary members with unofficial state sanction) arrive some night to murder them in their beds, they can take a few of the bastards with them.
Which is as good a reason as any, honestly. Make the filth work for it.
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:09 PM on March 24 [12 favorites]
But look: almost every queer/trans person i see who doesn't already own a gun but is looking at getting one because of current events is entirely realistic about their chances of ever successfully defending their life with it. The hope i frequently hear expressed is that at the very least, when armed agents of the state (or fascist paramilitary members with unofficial state sanction) arrive some night to murder them in their beds, they can take a few of the bastards with them.
Which is as good a reason as any, honestly. Make the filth work for it.
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:09 PM on March 24 [12 favorites]
To the self harm comment:
I'm sorry, I was remiss not saying something earlier.
988 is the number to call if you're feeling unsafe.
One benefit of being in a community focused on gun ownership is asking someone to hold the bolt or slide from your gun for you. It renders your guns inert while not giving them the part that is legally "the gun".
If you don't trust yourself to own a firearm, you probably shouldn't.
posted by constraint at 10:16 PM on March 24 [5 favorites]
I'm sorry, I was remiss not saying something earlier.
988 is the number to call if you're feeling unsafe.
One benefit of being in a community focused on gun ownership is asking someone to hold the bolt or slide from your gun for you. It renders your guns inert while not giving them the part that is legally "the gun".
If you don't trust yourself to own a firearm, you probably shouldn't.
posted by constraint at 10:16 PM on March 24 [5 favorites]
I used to observe that Americans who turned to guns to protect themselves were already dead inside, whatever their rationalizations.
I'm not sure of that observation as much; maybe guns will ultimately be the last line of defense against Republicans and their progressive escalations of violence against us.
But I've seen time and time again that guns are a literal cancer on society. And gun violence, wherever it comes from or for whatever reasons, only underscores the corrosive effects of guns on a functional, peaceful society. And people who choose to participate in that are effecting that corrosion.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:04 AM on March 25 [10 favorites]
I'm not sure of that observation as much; maybe guns will ultimately be the last line of defense against Republicans and their progressive escalations of violence against us.
But I've seen time and time again that guns are a literal cancer on society. And gun violence, wherever it comes from or for whatever reasons, only underscores the corrosive effects of guns on a functional, peaceful society. And people who choose to participate in that are effecting that corrosion.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:04 AM on March 25 [10 favorites]
Canada has pretty high gun ownership per capita, i would like to point out, and it's a pretty functional, peaceful society!
(I mean, it's not high compared to the US, but basically NOWHERE is high compared to the US.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:21 AM on March 25 [6 favorites]
(I mean, it's not high compared to the US, but basically NOWHERE is high compared to the US.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:21 AM on March 25 [6 favorites]
https://www.bradyunited.org/press/march-2021-nics-fbi-data-firearms-sold
Says that gun sales go up after presidential elections and mass shootings. Gun sales were up after Biden was elected. Gun sales show that people are worried, not whether they're right to be worried.
They sucked his brains out!, in re gun owners being dead inside. I think it's hard enough to identify one's own deep emotional issues, and very easy to be wrong about millions of people you don't know and don't like.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 1:35 AM on March 25 [6 favorites]
Says that gun sales go up after presidential elections and mass shootings. Gun sales were up after Biden was elected. Gun sales show that people are worried, not whether they're right to be worried.
They sucked his brains out!, in re gun owners being dead inside. I think it's hard enough to identify one's own deep emotional issues, and very easy to be wrong about millions of people you don't know and don't like.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 1:35 AM on March 25 [6 favorites]
It's cool, trans folks are used to other people diagnosing them.
posted by constraint at 1:44 AM on March 25 [13 favorites]
posted by constraint at 1:44 AM on March 25 [13 favorites]
I, for one, welcome our new armed queer overlords.
posted by Homemade Interossiter at 2:10 AM on March 25 [17 favorites]
posted by Homemade Interossiter at 2:10 AM on March 25 [17 favorites]
As a brit with young kids, the thought of personally having a gun in my home horrifies me, and I'm glad access to guns are so heavily restricted here - gun suicides, accidents and killings are extremely rare. (violence and murder rates are also much lower per capita)
But if I were living in the US, awash with guns and gun violence, many held by people who absolutely should not have them (including some of those with badges), I can see why arming yourself may be something you have to do when the state won't protect you, or is an active part of the threat, and deterrence (of taking a few with you) is one of the few options.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 2:42 AM on March 25 [4 favorites]
But if I were living in the US, awash with guns and gun violence, many held by people who absolutely should not have them (including some of those with badges), I can see why arming yourself may be something you have to do when the state won't protect you, or is an active part of the threat, and deterrence (of taking a few with you) is one of the few options.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 2:42 AM on March 25 [4 favorites]
I'm reminded of a story Mr Epigrams likes to tell about listening to NPR in the 90s and hearing a story about a couple of lesbians in rural Alabama, I think, being interviewed by someone from their local affiliate about harassment they were receiving. One of the early questions was apparently about whether they were armed, and the answer was "of course". Rural folks have guns for other reasons but there's no reason not to also be ready for people who might kill you because they don't like your kind, whatever that may be.
As a person born in urban Texas, I generally think that white people who have guns for home defense in cities are just dumbass racists looking for an excuse to shoot Black folks. My queer neighbors are exempt from that judgement.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 4:40 AM on March 25 [6 favorites]
As a person born in urban Texas, I generally think that white people who have guns for home defense in cities are just dumbass racists looking for an excuse to shoot Black folks. My queer neighbors are exempt from that judgement.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 4:40 AM on March 25 [6 favorites]
Mod note: Thanks for sharing these links by making this post! We added it to the sidebar and Best Of blog!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 4:58 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 4:58 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
I think rural people aren't necessarily armed for fear of their neighbors. Hunting can provide a significant amount of food and there may be a need to kill animals that damage crops.
I'm reminded of a conversation I had with New Yorker who said that travel was educational-- in New York, respectable people didn't own guns, and in the midwest (?), respectable people did own guns.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 5:24 AM on March 25 [3 favorites]
I'm reminded of a conversation I had with New Yorker who said that travel was educational-- in New York, respectable people didn't own guns, and in the midwest (?), respectable people did own guns.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 5:24 AM on March 25 [3 favorites]
🤦♀️
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:31 AM on March 25
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:31 AM on March 25
So, I had a bit of a different thought about the outcome here.
In the late 60s, among other work they were doing, the Black Panthers started advocating for African Americans to own guns for their own self-defense, and at one point held a demonstration on the steps of California's statehouse with their own guns. This freaked out the authorities so much that the NRA started calling for gun control laws. Ultimately California passed the Mulford Act, which blocked carrying of firearms without a permit.
So to me, this suggests that the NRA is only in favor of unrestricted gun rights when it's them holding the guns. When it's us holding the guns, they say "wait a minute" and start lobbying for gun control. So this may bring about a bit of a silver lining (and since I bet most if not all LGBTQ+ gun owners would be abiding by all laws and restrictions, they'd still get to keep THEIR guns anyway).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:33 AM on March 25 [15 favorites]
In the late 60s, among other work they were doing, the Black Panthers started advocating for African Americans to own guns for their own self-defense, and at one point held a demonstration on the steps of California's statehouse with their own guns. This freaked out the authorities so much that the NRA started calling for gun control laws. Ultimately California passed the Mulford Act, which blocked carrying of firearms without a permit.
So to me, this suggests that the NRA is only in favor of unrestricted gun rights when it's them holding the guns. When it's us holding the guns, they say "wait a minute" and start lobbying for gun control. So this may bring about a bit of a silver lining (and since I bet most if not all LGBTQ+ gun owners would be abiding by all laws and restrictions, they'd still get to keep THEIR guns anyway).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:33 AM on March 25 [15 favorites]
This is so profoundly dumb. A queer person with a gun isn't safe. Anyone telling a queer person they'll be safer with a gun is guilty of a deep and ugly sin.
I honestly can't believe people would be so deluded to believe their gun protects them from what's coming, rather than making them part of why what's coming is so deadly and awful.
It's like you're buying a lottery ticket, and the prizes are all, "kill yourself during a temporary depression" or "your kid plays with the gun and shoots himself in the head" or some shit like that. There is absolutely no ticket for "you stand up to fascism and go down in glorious battle."
More guns just mean more fear, and more fear means more violence. If you're queer and you've decided to add to the fear, well, congratulations, you made yourself feel slightly better (maybe) (but likely not), at the price of adding just that much more danger to the lives of the people around you. You're now part of the problem.
posted by mittens at 6:02 AM on March 25 [8 favorites]
I honestly can't believe people would be so deluded to believe their gun protects them from what's coming, rather than making them part of why what's coming is so deadly and awful.
It's like you're buying a lottery ticket, and the prizes are all, "kill yourself during a temporary depression" or "your kid plays with the gun and shoots himself in the head" or some shit like that. There is absolutely no ticket for "you stand up to fascism and go down in glorious battle."
More guns just mean more fear, and more fear means more violence. If you're queer and you've decided to add to the fear, well, congratulations, you made yourself feel slightly better (maybe) (but likely not), at the price of adding just that much more danger to the lives of the people around you. You're now part of the problem.
posted by mittens at 6:02 AM on March 25 [8 favorites]
EmpressCallipygos: " the Mulford Act"
Signed into law by Ronald Reagan, for additional irony.
I'm not queer. I'm Jewish. There were a lot of guns in my household growing up. Rifles, shotguns, handguns. Multiples of each. When you're a kid, whatever you grow up with is "normal," and you probably don't think to question it. But I don't think any of the families of my childhood friends had guns—certainly not so many.
I was well into adulthood when I asked my father (who was born in 1935) "Why did we have so many guns around?"
"Jews should have guns" was his answer.
posted by adamrice at 6:07 AM on March 25 [11 favorites]
Signed into law by Ronald Reagan, for additional irony.
I'm not queer. I'm Jewish. There were a lot of guns in my household growing up. Rifles, shotguns, handguns. Multiples of each. When you're a kid, whatever you grow up with is "normal," and you probably don't think to question it. But I don't think any of the families of my childhood friends had guns—certainly not so many.
I was well into adulthood when I asked my father (who was born in 1935) "Why did we have so many guns around?"
"Jews should have guns" was his answer.
posted by adamrice at 6:07 AM on March 25 [11 favorites]
Guns feed into guns, the more guns there are the more people want guns to defend against the other guns. We know how this goes. Buying a gun makes you less safe from suicide or accidents, and your house less safe for anyone who goes inside it, including burglars who could steal your gun and kill people with it, which happened to a relative of mine.
Guns are awful and it makes me devastatingly sad to hear anyone wants one. It doesn't help anything. It only makes things worse. For yourself and for others.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:16 AM on March 25 [7 favorites]
Guns are awful and it makes me devastatingly sad to hear anyone wants one. It doesn't help anything. It only makes things worse. For yourself and for others.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:16 AM on March 25 [7 favorites]
My wife (stealth trans, very visbly gay, white) bought her third gun after the election. She owned a gun in Texas, a shotgun just because she liked them, but left it there with family when we moved. She bought a hunting rifle in our new state a couple years ago, but after the election she bought a handgun for self defense when out and about. I (nb, trans, white jew) learned how to disarm and shoot both, but I don't have any interest in carrying one. For me, as a visibly gay and trans person in rural America, I accept that my life depends on the people around me and choose nonviolence in the face of possible violence from others. My wife makes a different choice every day. I think my choice isn't an option for her, emotionally.
It's really easy to judge abstract gay and trans people making different choices than you believe you would, but it's very hard to judge your wife when she's crying about the fear she experiences on a daily basis, when you know her passport has an outdated name and gender marker so she probably can't leave the country.
posted by Summers at 6:28 AM on March 25 [28 favorites]
It's really easy to judge abstract gay and trans people making different choices than you believe you would, but it's very hard to judge your wife when she's crying about the fear she experiences on a daily basis, when you know her passport has an outdated name and gender marker so she probably can't leave the country.
posted by Summers at 6:28 AM on March 25 [28 favorites]
I have a very mild essential tremor, so shooting guns is completely out of the question for me within my personal belief system ("Gun control is hitting the target - it means you have practiced shooting well enough to use it as intended", and "you shouldn't own a gun unless you know how to use, maintain, and properly store it" are two of the big ones) as influenced by friends who are gun owners. While a shotgun might be reasonable, I live in a Philadelphia row house converted apartment and I might accidentally shoot through a wall (the walls are that crappy here).
If they come for me, I will not actively resist arrest. However, if I lay there limply and state "I am not resisting, I am taking no action at all", then I'll make them have to move me, and I am not a small person.
It doesn't help that things like mace, pepper guns, and tasers aren't legal in the state. I can't even get archery equipment or crossbows shipped to me!
I haven't changed my name yet, so maybe I could get my passport? But my BC also shows the wrong deadname due to a fumble-fingered priest when I was baptized so I can't even get a REAL ID. (The church doesn't have my baptismal record, so I can't even look that up. But everything in the universe has my deadname, not the misspelled one, so it's insanely difficult for me to fix it without going through two name changes, and if I don't have the $1K for a name change in PA, I certainly don't have the $2K for two of them. The bureaucracy has me a couple kinds of screwed here.)
posted by mephron at 7:01 AM on March 25 [2 favorites]
If they come for me, I will not actively resist arrest. However, if I lay there limply and state "I am not resisting, I am taking no action at all", then I'll make them have to move me, and I am not a small person.
It doesn't help that things like mace, pepper guns, and tasers aren't legal in the state. I can't even get archery equipment or crossbows shipped to me!
I haven't changed my name yet, so maybe I could get my passport? But my BC also shows the wrong deadname due to a fumble-fingered priest when I was baptized so I can't even get a REAL ID. (The church doesn't have my baptismal record, so I can't even look that up. But everything in the universe has my deadname, not the misspelled one, so it's insanely difficult for me to fix it without going through two name changes, and if I don't have the $1K for a name change in PA, I certainly don't have the $2K for two of them. The bureaucracy has me a couple kinds of screwed here.)
posted by mephron at 7:01 AM on March 25 [2 favorites]
Tacticool Girlfriend:
Why I Train
but also, Guns Aren't For Everyone.
There's more practical instructional material on the channel archive. (She's no longer uploading due to the overall state of 'GunTube.')
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:14 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
Why I Train
but also, Guns Aren't For Everyone.
There's more practical instructional material on the channel archive. (She's no longer uploading due to the overall state of 'GunTube.')
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:14 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
In an armed conflict, most of the work is logistic support. A tooth to tail ratio of 2 support personnel for each combatant would be extraordinarily high. For modern militaries, the ratio is closer to 10:1.
So if 1/3 of US adults were armed, we’d be at a saturation level of effective combatants. And we’re way beyond saturation among every demographic group, according to the stats in this thread.
Even if you believe in armed self defense, you are decreasing the fighting strength of your side if you spend your training time and dollars on combat. Also, the right wing’s glorification of and over investment in combatant training is a weakness, not a strength.
posted by Headfullofair at 8:45 AM on March 25 [2 favorites]
So if 1/3 of US adults were armed, we’d be at a saturation level of effective combatants. And we’re way beyond saturation among every demographic group, according to the stats in this thread.
Even if you believe in armed self defense, you are decreasing the fighting strength of your side if you spend your training time and dollars on combat. Also, the right wing’s glorification of and over investment in combatant training is a weakness, not a strength.
posted by Headfullofair at 8:45 AM on March 25 [2 favorites]
That's a meaningless statistic if you aren't a nation state with an actual army, navy, air force, procurement system, permanent headquarters and bases, a giant bureaucracy, etc.
And even moreso when most of that 1/3 is on the other side.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:47 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
And even moreso when most of that 1/3 is on the other side.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:47 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
Snuffleupagus, the original post literally says more than 40% of democratic households and black households already have guns.
Logistics win wars regardless of what sort of fighting organization you have. I suggest reading Cathal Nolan’s The Allure of Battle, a recent popular history summarizing how over-investment in combat is a strategy with a consistent history of failure.
“Win the battle, lose the war” may be of no consolation when you’re in a losing battle. But that is an argument for avoiding war, not for investing in a losing strategy of excessive combat mobilization.
posted by Headfullofair at 9:10 AM on March 25
Logistics win wars regardless of what sort of fighting organization you have. I suggest reading Cathal Nolan’s The Allure of Battle, a recent popular history summarizing how over-investment in combat is a strategy with a consistent history of failure.
“Win the battle, lose the war” may be of no consolation when you’re in a losing battle. But that is an argument for avoiding war, not for investing in a losing strategy of excessive combat mobilization.
posted by Headfullofair at 9:10 AM on March 25
Here's what the article actually says:
And you've gone from self-defense or small-scale community defense of activists and etc., and the balance of intimidation (for want of a better phrase) to organized conflict.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:32 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
This month, 66% of Republican voters surveyed say that they or someone in their household owns a gun, while just 45% of independents and 41% of Democrats say the same.That is not the same as 41% of the Democratic population each owning their own gun. It also doesn't address geography. I'd imagine the Republican gun ownership is more universally distributed.
In 2004, a March NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found that 57% of Republicans said that they or someone in their household owned a gun, while just 41% of independents and 33% of Democrats said the same.
And you've gone from self-defense or small-scale community defense of activists and etc., and the balance of intimidation (for want of a better phrase) to organized conflict.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:32 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
none of what I'm about to say is meant as judgement on anyone who makes different decisions. this is just my experience as someone who never intended to own a gun because of my mental health issues and occasional (tho getting rarer) sui ideation.
i went through a moment in November where i was determined to learn to shoot and own a gun to protect myself in an emergency. my nesting partner was against having guns in the house so i figured I'd just learn to shoot. my friend who hunts pointed out that if you own a gun you better be ready to kill someone with it because that's what you're signing up for (racking a shotgun might scare someone off like in the movies or it might force you to use it). i sat with that for a while, while also processing a lot more anger than i realized i was holding.
when the fear/anger passed, i decided I didn't want to play their game where everything is fighting and violence. that might put me at a disadvantage when it comes to protecting others or myself. I'd like to think it'll help me become more creative when it comes to defusing a situation (which thankfully I haven't had to do because I'm pretty terrible at it right now).
posted by kokaku at 9:33 AM on March 25 [10 favorites]
i went through a moment in November where i was determined to learn to shoot and own a gun to protect myself in an emergency. my nesting partner was against having guns in the house so i figured I'd just learn to shoot. my friend who hunts pointed out that if you own a gun you better be ready to kill someone with it because that's what you're signing up for (racking a shotgun might scare someone off like in the movies or it might force you to use it). i sat with that for a while, while also processing a lot more anger than i realized i was holding.
when the fear/anger passed, i decided I didn't want to play their game where everything is fighting and violence. that might put me at a disadvantage when it comes to protecting others or myself. I'd like to think it'll help me become more creative when it comes to defusing a situation (which thankfully I haven't had to do because I'm pretty terrible at it right now).
posted by kokaku at 9:33 AM on March 25 [10 favorites]
yeah I'm not sure the judgement calls in this thread are going to achieve much beyond heightening the grar
you are not likely to convince someone, given the circumstances. I do appreciate the personal contributions here, the people who are saying why (or why not) re: gun ownership
posted by ginger.beef at 9:38 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
you are not likely to convince someone, given the circumstances. I do appreciate the personal contributions here, the people who are saying why (or why not) re: gun ownership
posted by ginger.beef at 9:38 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
and since I bet most if not all LGBTQ+ gun owners would be abiding by all laws and restrictions, they'd still get to keep THEIR guns anyway
They can just make it illegal to own a gun whilst queer. You can see the foundation of this being laid by the online Nazis declaring every mass shooter presumptively trans.
posted by BungaDunga at 10:23 AM on March 25 [3 favorites]
They can just make it illegal to own a gun whilst queer. You can see the foundation of this being laid by the online Nazis declaring every mass shooter presumptively trans.
posted by BungaDunga at 10:23 AM on March 25 [3 favorites]
yeah I'm not sure the judgement calls in this thread are going to achieve much beyond heightening the grar
Of course not. Because that's the thing about buying a gun, everyone who buys a gun thinks they are making a sensible decision. Nobody's ever like, "Whoa, I'm buying this thing for pretty specious reasons, I bet I'm going to be SOOOO unsafe with this thing!" Then 40,000 people die every year because we are actually terrible at thinking things through.
But all you can do is try to talk sense about it, heighten the grar though it might.
I am a queer person who grew up in a house full of guns, whose relatives have guns, who has dated people who kept guns in the nightstand for protection, the whole bit. I am not unaware of the rationales people voice, when they want to have a gun. The rationales are generally fear or fetishism, and not much else. Everyone thinks they've made a common-sense decision.
Of the many times I have faced danger or discrimination for being queer, I cannot think of a single one that would have been helped by the presence of one of those guns--especially not when taken in balance with the effect of the whole mass of guns in our culture. Maybe I'd have been called a faggot a few less times, had I been wearing a side-arm? So what? Carry one around on dates just in case things go sour? Go back in time, give little 11-year-old me a shotgun so creepy guys don't prey on me? Yeah, that's smart. What the fuck are people thinking they're safe from?
I hate this particular thing, that because some queer people have made a truly bad decision, it needs to be celebrated. Side-barred, no less? Because people are so panicked over their own safety that they have to make everyone less safe? That is something to celebrate?
We should be rending our fucking garments in sorrow over this, not celebrating it.
posted by mittens at 10:32 AM on March 25 [11 favorites]
Of course not. Because that's the thing about buying a gun, everyone who buys a gun thinks they are making a sensible decision. Nobody's ever like, "Whoa, I'm buying this thing for pretty specious reasons, I bet I'm going to be SOOOO unsafe with this thing!" Then 40,000 people die every year because we are actually terrible at thinking things through.
But all you can do is try to talk sense about it, heighten the grar though it might.
I am a queer person who grew up in a house full of guns, whose relatives have guns, who has dated people who kept guns in the nightstand for protection, the whole bit. I am not unaware of the rationales people voice, when they want to have a gun. The rationales are generally fear or fetishism, and not much else. Everyone thinks they've made a common-sense decision.
Of the many times I have faced danger or discrimination for being queer, I cannot think of a single one that would have been helped by the presence of one of those guns--especially not when taken in balance with the effect of the whole mass of guns in our culture. Maybe I'd have been called a faggot a few less times, had I been wearing a side-arm? So what? Carry one around on dates just in case things go sour? Go back in time, give little 11-year-old me a shotgun so creepy guys don't prey on me? Yeah, that's smart. What the fuck are people thinking they're safe from?
I hate this particular thing, that because some queer people have made a truly bad decision, it needs to be celebrated. Side-barred, no less? Because people are so panicked over their own safety that they have to make everyone less safe? That is something to celebrate?
We should be rending our fucking garments in sorrow over this, not celebrating it.
posted by mittens at 10:32 AM on March 25 [11 favorites]
mittens, with respect I think you are projecting something that is not prevalent in the thread
I think the sorrow is felt acutely by some people who have decided gun ownership is something they have landed on, for one thing.
posted by ginger.beef at 10:36 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
I think the sorrow is felt acutely by some people who have decided gun ownership is something they have landed on, for one thing.
posted by ginger.beef at 10:36 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
I've known a great many gun owners, and not one of them ever used a gun to defend themselves; homicide, suicide, or unintentional self-injury account for every use.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:47 AM on March 25 [4 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:47 AM on March 25 [4 favorites]
The one homicide (that I know of) was soon thereafter followed by a suicide.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:49 AM on March 25 [2 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:49 AM on March 25 [2 favorites]
everyone who buys a gun thinks they are making a sensible decision
nah, plenty of hunters and target shooters know their hobby is expensive and dumb
posted by ryanrs at 11:00 AM on March 25 [3 favorites]
nah, plenty of hunters and target shooters know their hobby is expensive and dumb
posted by ryanrs at 11:00 AM on March 25 [3 favorites]
I suppose some followup context.
The supreme court is currently considering a trip of cases:
Snipe v Brown
Would roll back state level assault weapons bans
Ocean State Tactical v Rhode Island
This has the potential to rollback large capacity magazine laws everywhere.
Antonyuk v. Jame
Would roll back many licensing requirements.
So, uh, there's a very real chance of a lot more heavily armed people in the US.
I'm trying to avoid weighing in too much besides providing information, but I think this is something that's worth paying attention to.
posted by constraint at 12:05 PM on March 25 [4 favorites]
The supreme court is currently considering a trip of cases:
Snipe v Brown
Would roll back state level assault weapons bans
Ocean State Tactical v Rhode Island
This has the potential to rollback large capacity magazine laws everywhere.
Antonyuk v. Jame
Would roll back many licensing requirements.
So, uh, there's a very real chance of a lot more heavily armed people in the US.
I'm trying to avoid weighing in too much besides providing information, but I think this is something that's worth paying attention to.
posted by constraint at 12:05 PM on March 25 [4 favorites]
Is the argument for marginalised communities to arm themselves not a (darkly ironic) variation on the classic NRA argument that "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"?
posted by hankmajor at 2:53 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]
posted by hankmajor at 2:53 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]
This is timely; a newish friend of mine recently posted on Facebook about the gun training she's leading for other queer people where she lives, and shared a first aid kit she has that is specifically designed for responding to gunshot wounds.
I don't judge her. I still like her very much! And I am finding that paying attention to other people's responses to our current situation helps me intuit and consider my own reactions. Does this person seem like they're panicking or over-stating things? Does this person seem too sanguine? Does my sense that Person A is over-stating things reflect denial on my part?
I explored, and made my own decision about, gun use many years ago, and nothing about our current moment is going to change that. But we are in a horrible time of threat and crisis, and, for the most part, I am withholding judgment about how other people who are in an unprecedentedly vulnerable position, as I am, choose to deal with it.
posted by Well I never at 2:54 PM on March 25 [3 favorites]
I don't judge her. I still like her very much! And I am finding that paying attention to other people's responses to our current situation helps me intuit and consider my own reactions. Does this person seem like they're panicking or over-stating things? Does this person seem too sanguine? Does my sense that Person A is over-stating things reflect denial on my part?
I explored, and made my own decision about, gun use many years ago, and nothing about our current moment is going to change that. But we are in a horrible time of threat and crisis, and, for the most part, I am withholding judgment about how other people who are in an unprecedentedly vulnerable position, as I am, choose to deal with it.
posted by Well I never at 2:54 PM on March 25 [3 favorites]
I do not like living in a place where lots of people own lots of guns, but when living in the USA I owned guns for a while to see what it is all about. I sold them all within a year.
Being a gun owner I discovered many surprising things, the number one is that gun ownership is a lot more about signaling than about self defense or hunting.
What guns you own signal your politics (in the US I saw it mostly reduced to R vs D), whether you believe that the world is fundamentally evil or good, patriotism, manliness, your ability to take care of your family. Too many to list.
What I found out is that people own or do not own gun based on emotions, not statistics, and the number one emotion behind gun ownership is fear.
The conversations I had at gun ranges were completely different if I was shooting a 22 precision target gun, a 9mm sig, a big ass revolver, a beautifully crafted bolt action hunting rifle, or some kind of AR 15. I personally enjoyed the target pistol the most, and that is the one that got me the most advice about how to best defend my family.
What I am getting at is that whether or not personal firearms are useful for when the shit hits the fan, or they are most likely to kill a child or yourself, gun ownership can have a very useful signaling effect. Even if a marginalized group does not own a lot of guns, saying that they do may be useful.
“Roof Koreans” come to mind. I am a white passing Mexican. When I was out shooting the semi auto guns and rifles in California, I had many conversations with racists that assumed I was on their side. More than once it was explained to me that guns were necessary to defend one’s family from the Mexicans, the blacks, the Filipinos. But the Koreans are all right.
posted by Dr. Curare at 4:27 PM on March 25 [10 favorites]
Being a gun owner I discovered many surprising things, the number one is that gun ownership is a lot more about signaling than about self defense or hunting.
What guns you own signal your politics (in the US I saw it mostly reduced to R vs D), whether you believe that the world is fundamentally evil or good, patriotism, manliness, your ability to take care of your family. Too many to list.
What I found out is that people own or do not own gun based on emotions, not statistics, and the number one emotion behind gun ownership is fear.
The conversations I had at gun ranges were completely different if I was shooting a 22 precision target gun, a 9mm sig, a big ass revolver, a beautifully crafted bolt action hunting rifle, or some kind of AR 15. I personally enjoyed the target pistol the most, and that is the one that got me the most advice about how to best defend my family.
What I am getting at is that whether or not personal firearms are useful for when the shit hits the fan, or they are most likely to kill a child or yourself, gun ownership can have a very useful signaling effect. Even if a marginalized group does not own a lot of guns, saying that they do may be useful.
“Roof Koreans” come to mind. I am a white passing Mexican. When I was out shooting the semi auto guns and rifles in California, I had many conversations with racists that assumed I was on their side. More than once it was explained to me that guns were necessary to defend one’s family from the Mexicans, the blacks, the Filipinos. But the Koreans are all right.
posted by Dr. Curare at 4:27 PM on March 25 [10 favorites]
I note that individualized self-defence is a very not-Leftist viewpoint (which, fair - most Black, brown, and LGBTQ Americans are not Leftists), and that there are some rather significant differences between that and some of the community defense groups in minoritized communities. (Also that there are successful and unsuccessful examples of community defense groups both with and without guns). It would be nice to see some of the non-gun-focused community defense examples also highlighted.
posted by eviemath at 6:08 PM on March 25 [2 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 6:08 PM on March 25 [2 favorites]
What guns you own signal your politics (in the US I saw it mostly reduced to R vs D)
Wait, which guns are for Republican and which are for Democratic?
Among the people I've shot with, the rural/exurb white Republicans all had shotguns (and dogs and boats), and the queer socialists (I wouldn't call them Democrats) had pistols and AR-15s.
...but that's because I was going duck hunting in the Central Valley and action shooting in the SF Bay Area. I don't believe for a second that Democrats own mostly pistols and assault rifles, and Republicans stick to revolvers and shotguns. It just doesn't break down that way.
This is America, everyone owns every gun, more or less.
posted by ryanrs at 9:40 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]
Wait, which guns are for Republican and which are for Democratic?
Among the people I've shot with, the rural/exurb white Republicans all had shotguns (and dogs and boats), and the queer socialists (I wouldn't call them Democrats) had pistols and AR-15s.
...but that's because I was going duck hunting in the Central Valley and action shooting in the SF Bay Area. I don't believe for a second that Democrats own mostly pistols and assault rifles, and Republicans stick to revolvers and shotguns. It just doesn't break down that way.
This is America, everyone owns every gun, more or less.
posted by ryanrs at 9:40 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]
Maryland Tenth Cavalry Gun Club has been around for a minute-teaching history as well as gun safety. I attended a scout merit badge training back in the day as I don’t want to be ignorant in the presence of firearms regardless of my personal choices about ownership.
posted by childofTethys at 5:32 AM on March 26 [1 favorite]
posted by childofTethys at 5:32 AM on March 26 [1 favorite]
Wow, such links, many comments, what thread
I'm with whoever it was that observed that the actual outcome of many of these new cases of gun ownership is going to be domestic violence or self-harm. Maybe less of the former and more of the latter than with most of the gun-owning population, but if you bring an idiot-proof killing tool into your home you introduce certain risks, which in a large enough population will certainly be actualized.
So, even though I'm looking at the current situation and wondering if we are headed for a Radio Rwanda situation, I'm still not getting strapped.
Though I'm reminded that I should catch up with the friend who wants me to come out to practice shooting pistols.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 8:03 AM on March 26 [2 favorites]
I'm with whoever it was that observed that the actual outcome of many of these new cases of gun ownership is going to be domestic violence or self-harm. Maybe less of the former and more of the latter than with most of the gun-owning population, but if you bring an idiot-proof killing tool into your home you introduce certain risks, which in a large enough population will certainly be actualized.
So, even though I'm looking at the current situation and wondering if we are headed for a Radio Rwanda situation, I'm still not getting strapped.
Though I'm reminded that I should catch up with the friend who wants me to come out to practice shooting pistols.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 8:03 AM on March 26 [2 favorites]
I have LGBTQ friends who are talking about getting guns, and I have conservative friends who already own guns, and everyone thinks they're getting guns to protect themselves from "home invasions" (if conservative) or some kind of mass round-up (if lefty) and they all sound delusional. I spend a lot of time around gun owners -- hell, I'll be at a gun range later today -- and I've never once had one tell me that they've actually protected themselves with a gun, and yes, I ask. They might claim that the mere existence of a gun in their home makes them safer but we know that's bullshit.
On the other hand, I had a good friend kill himself with a gun.
I'm not bothering to try to talk my LGBTQ friends out of buying guns. They're not going to listen to me (straight, cis, white, US citizen, etc). But I really wish they wouldn't. I wish you wouldn't.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:16 AM on March 26 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, I had a good friend kill himself with a gun.
I'm not bothering to try to talk my LGBTQ friends out of buying guns. They're not going to listen to me (straight, cis, white, US citizen, etc). But I really wish they wouldn't. I wish you wouldn't.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:16 AM on March 26 [1 favorite]
That’s the thing: being armed won’t protect you or your family on your own from an armed lynch gang or modern day Pinkerton thugs or ICE-turned general fascist goon squad. You need a community for that.
posted by eviemath at 9:25 AM on March 26 [3 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 9:25 AM on March 26 [3 favorites]
So if 1/3 of US adults were armed, we’d be at a saturation level of effective combatants. And we’re way beyond saturation among every demographic group, according to the stats in this thread.
Just because 1/3 of US adults are armed, it doesn't mean that 1/3 of US adults are currently engaged in a battle (if a battle were occurring), nor that they are currently actually engaging in pointing a weapon at an enemy (if a battle were occurring). I think your analysis is way off. You could still have appropriate ratios of support to combat troops with an extremely supportive population or with, for example, people going from Vermont to Massachusetts to support a battle front.
In any case, I think these discussions are kind of silly because artillery kills the vast majority of troops in war, not dudes shooting other dudes directly with guns. I think I have read in WWII, your average solider shot about 1000 bullets per kill, and front line machine gun to machine gun battles resulted in about 10%-15% of enemy deaths. The rest is artillery.
If you want to help the Democratic war effort, secretly (very secretly) learn to make mortars and IEDs.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:13 AM on March 27 [1 favorite]
Just because 1/3 of US adults are armed, it doesn't mean that 1/3 of US adults are currently engaged in a battle (if a battle were occurring), nor that they are currently actually engaging in pointing a weapon at an enemy (if a battle were occurring). I think your analysis is way off. You could still have appropriate ratios of support to combat troops with an extremely supportive population or with, for example, people going from Vermont to Massachusetts to support a battle front.
In any case, I think these discussions are kind of silly because artillery kills the vast majority of troops in war, not dudes shooting other dudes directly with guns. I think I have read in WWII, your average solider shot about 1000 bullets per kill, and front line machine gun to machine gun battles resulted in about 10%-15% of enemy deaths. The rest is artillery.
If you want to help the Democratic war effort, secretly (very secretly) learn to make mortars and IEDs.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:13 AM on March 27 [1 favorite]
Just because 1/3 of US adults are armed, it doesn't mean that 1/3 of US adults are currently engaged in a battle (if a battle were occurring), nor that they are currently actually engaging in pointing a weapon at an enemy
Or if they are at all competent at using said weapons at all. Seriously.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:43 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]
Or if they are at all competent at using said weapons at all. Seriously.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:43 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]
And yes if you are engaged in armed combat against u.s. military, prepare to get droned or bombed or basically both.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:44 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:44 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]
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