The internet has graced us with another poll that is wrong
April 4, 2025 12:21 AM Subscribe
Shenmue Revealed as ‘Most Influential Video Game of All Time’, According to BAFTA Poll.
Some notes and reactions from Rock Paper Shotgun and Eurogamer.
I've never played Shenmue, but I dropped this link into my (game industry) work group chat and it immediately exploded (no one agrees with the choice).
posted by oc-to-po-des at 1:29 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
posted by oc-to-po-des at 1:29 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
honestly in retrospect Shenmue feels very ahead of its time in terms of "what if video games was a movies"
Baldur's Gate 3 on that list is extremely funny though, like how did that many people fail to understand even the basic premise of the question
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:35 AM on April 4 [8 favorites]
Baldur's Gate 3 on that list is extremely funny though, like how did that many people fail to understand even the basic premise of the question
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:35 AM on April 4 [8 favorites]
I never played Shenmue, but it made noises when it came out, and it pops up from every now and then, so presumably it has been at least somewhat influential.
But... ummh... Baldur's Gate 3? Sure it's influential now, but shouldn't that be either of the first two ones? (2, in my opinion). What games has 3 influenced yet?
Even worse, Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2, which came out this year. I can't even recall the first being that influential. Maybe they're very good, but influential?
Other than that, it's not a bad list.
posted by phax at 1:49 AM on April 4 [5 favorites]
But... ummh... Baldur's Gate 3? Sure it's influential now, but shouldn't that be either of the first two ones? (2, in my opinion). What games has 3 influenced yet?
Even worse, Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2, which came out this year. I can't even recall the first being that influential. Maybe they're very good, but influential?
Other than that, it's not a bad list.
posted by phax at 1:49 AM on April 4 [5 favorites]
I also started gaming by typing games into the BASIC interpreter in my dad's Wang PC in the 80's... and I have heard of Shenmue, but never played it. It was a Dreamcast exclusive at the time, although apparently there are ports to the Xbox and Playstation.
As is often the case with online polls, the list looks more like a popularity contest than a list of influential games. Baldur's Gate 3 is great, but influential? And Kingdom Come 2 is new.
And if we are talking about open world games or "life simulation" games, we should talk about the Ultima series. Or, when talking about more modern CRPGs, how about Daggerfall instead of Skyrim? Or the original Baldur's Gate. Or Fallout. And all these games from the nineties were strongly influenced by the CRPGs from the eighties: not only the Ultima series, but also Bard's Tale, Dungeon Master, or the Gold Box D&D games.
In any case, I guess the purpose of lists like this is to spark discussions online, which are often much more interesting than the list itself.
posted by LaVidaEsUnCarnaval at 1:57 AM on April 4 [5 favorites]
As is often the case with online polls, the list looks more like a popularity contest than a list of influential games. Baldur's Gate 3 is great, but influential? And Kingdom Come 2 is new.
And if we are talking about open world games or "life simulation" games, we should talk about the Ultima series. Or, when talking about more modern CRPGs, how about Daggerfall instead of Skyrim? Or the original Baldur's Gate. Or Fallout. And all these games from the nineties were strongly influenced by the CRPGs from the eighties: not only the Ultima series, but also Bard's Tale, Dungeon Master, or the Gold Box D&D games.
In any case, I guess the purpose of lists like this is to spark discussions online, which are often much more interesting than the list itself.
posted by LaVidaEsUnCarnaval at 1:57 AM on April 4 [5 favorites]
I never played it but from what I know about it there is definitely something important about a game that really pioneered “there’s an ultimate goal but it’s really about getting totally lost in the open world” to the extreme of not even actually having the faintest bit of closure to the main story in it at all. It should definitely be creating some very interesting arguments!
posted by egypturnash at 2:07 AM on April 4
posted by egypturnash at 2:07 AM on April 4
I have to assume Kingdom Come was either a Reddit joke answer or part of a marketing push. If we're getting serious, Tomb Raider and the first GTA probably shouldn't be there either (sorry Brits).
posted by jy4m at 2:54 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
posted by jy4m at 2:54 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
I mean Super Mario Bros, Half Life, Minecraft, Sims - fair, all worthy of being on the list.
But, Tetris in 11th, FFS!? And where's Pac man? Streetfighter II? Colossal Cave Adventure? Fortnite, if you want something modern? WTF is baldur's gate 3 even doing there? Sure it's an amazing game, but if you're talking 'story driven RPG', it's treading a path well-worn before it. Bard's Tale, System Shock, Mass Effect, or some shade of Final Fantasy are all more groundbreaking for their time.
If you're going to pick the top entry though, I think anything that has "-like" appended to it to define the category has to be up for consideration. So that's Doom, or Rogue IMO.
"Shenmue-like"? Nahhhh.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 3:02 AM on April 4 [7 favorites]
But, Tetris in 11th, FFS!? And where's Pac man? Streetfighter II? Colossal Cave Adventure? Fortnite, if you want something modern? WTF is baldur's gate 3 even doing there? Sure it's an amazing game, but if you're talking 'story driven RPG', it's treading a path well-worn before it. Bard's Tale, System Shock, Mass Effect, or some shade of Final Fantasy are all more groundbreaking for their time.
If you're going to pick the top entry though, I think anything that has "-like" appended to it to define the category has to be up for consideration. So that's Doom, or Rogue IMO.
"Shenmue-like"? Nahhhh.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 3:02 AM on April 4 [7 favorites]
I feel Shenmue might be influential like Velvet Underground - only 10,000 people played that game, but everyone of them went into game dev.
posted by Hermione Dies at 3:15 AM on April 4 [14 favorites]
posted by Hermione Dies at 3:15 AM on April 4 [14 favorites]
I got the OG Shenmue on Dreamcast when it came out (I was in high school, worked and saved my entire allowance for months to buy it). Given these high expectations, it was honestly a bit disappointing. But I can see how it was influential. It aimed high and failed, which is one of the most honourable things you can say about many things.
posted by hankmajor at 3:44 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
posted by hankmajor at 3:44 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
I played it on Dreamcast (though I am not a game dev). Its main gameplay loop of wandering a detailed environment dotted with side quests, jobs, and story progress, is pretty much everywhere now. I think a big part of its world building innovation was in tightly modeling a smaller area (a few city blocks) though, instead of a massive world, which could do with being a bit more influential.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 3:49 AM on April 4 [7 favorites]
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 3:49 AM on April 4 [7 favorites]
Shenmue isn't without its lingering influences - most obviously in the Yakuza series, but it's certainly among the earliest instance of QTEs I can remember, in the sense of breaking from the normal control scheme of the game to a timed sequence of presses and mashes. I'd imagine it'd at least been on the mind of anyone working in the space of open-world games, as has already been said here.
Obvious weirdness aside, there are some strong entries. Doom and Super Mario Bros. are pretty obvious, and I could see you making a case for both Half-Life entries having a strong influence on their own.
For me the "oh, yeah, I guess I'm old" moment was that people have been using "roguelike" as a fairly broad term for a while, but the list has no sign of Rogue...
posted by entity447b at 5:40 AM on April 4 [6 favorites]
Obvious weirdness aside, there are some strong entries. Doom and Super Mario Bros. are pretty obvious, and I could see you making a case for both Half-Life entries having a strong influence on their own.
For me the "oh, yeah, I guess I'm old" moment was that people have been using "roguelike" as a fairly broad term for a while, but the list has no sign of Rogue...
posted by entity447b at 5:40 AM on April 4 [6 favorites]
it’s kind of absurd as the most influential but it did blow my mind at the time. open world games just didn’t exist. i think shenmue was the first? certainly the first i played. that changed everything. it would be interesting to hear if shenmue influenced the creation of GTA 3, which was the first open world game to be a huge success. if so that definitely puts it in the top 5 most influential games of all time
posted by dis_integration at 6:15 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
posted by dis_integration at 6:15 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
It always comes down to definitions and expectations, but your standard Skyrim-type open world game existed years before Shenmue. Ultima 6 (maybe 5 and definitely 7) are pure open world games which are more open and more interactive than many that came afterwards, including Shenmue.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 6:20 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
posted by Pyrogenesis at 6:20 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
Honestly I don’t think the “roguelike” label has a damn thing to do with Rogue any more. Rogue did have procedurally generated maps but it had no trace of the “unlock something for future runs” mechanic that’s a big part of everything you’ll find on Steam under the “roguelike” tag. Like Balatro. Which describes itself as a “poker-inspired roguelike deck builder all about creating powerful synergies and winning big.”
There’s those who want to keep “roguelike” for games that someone would much more realistically look at after playing Rogue and say “yes this clearly has roots in Rogue” (like, say, Dwarf Fortress) and use “roguelite” for the “unlock for future runs” games but this really does not feel like a winnable fight until someone comes up with a new term for games that prominently feature persistent unlocks that sticks in the same way “first person shooter” replaced “Doom Clone”.
posted by egypturnash at 6:30 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
There’s those who want to keep “roguelike” for games that someone would much more realistically look at after playing Rogue and say “yes this clearly has roots in Rogue” (like, say, Dwarf Fortress) and use “roguelite” for the “unlock for future runs” games but this really does not feel like a winnable fight until someone comes up with a new term for games that prominently feature persistent unlocks that sticks in the same way “first person shooter” replaced “Doom Clone”.
posted by egypturnash at 6:30 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
I have things to say on this Rogue matter, but typing then it on a phone screen will drive me mad, so they'll have to wait.
posted by JHarris at 7:11 AM on April 4 [7 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 7:11 AM on April 4 [7 favorites]
among the earliest instance of QTEs
So influenced for evil, not just for good?
posted by biffa at 7:23 AM on April 4 [2 favorites]
So influenced for evil, not just for good?
posted by biffa at 7:23 AM on April 4 [2 favorites]
I'd vote for Pac-Man. One of the very first, if not the first, bona-fide video game sensations (there was a pop song written about it). It was one of the very first "abstract" games (even Pong you could think of as tennis. Pac-Man was disconnected from reality). It spawned a whole series of sequels (signs of things to come) and still resonates with us 45 years later.
I'll add Rogue and Adventure (even though you don't see as many text-adventure games these days, the "puzzle solving" genre is still there).
The fact that I played all of these is purely coincidence.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 7:28 AM on April 4 [2 favorites]
I'll add Rogue and Adventure (even though you don't see as many text-adventure games these days, the "puzzle solving" genre is still there).
The fact that I played all of these is purely coincidence.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 7:28 AM on April 4 [2 favorites]
Shenmue is certainly the biggest gamer you know's favorite games journalist's favorite games journalist's favorite game.
posted by Reyturner at 7:35 AM on April 4 [12 favorites]
posted by Reyturner at 7:35 AM on April 4 [12 favorites]
I haven't played everything on the list, but it doesn't look like any of the games listed helped define the metroidvania genre (as far as I know, the originators could be the first Zelda, Metroid, and Castlevania II, but there are probably others I am missing). That said, maybe metroidvanias aren't a big deal except among indie games...
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 7:56 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 7:56 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
Okay, at a real life keyboard now.
All these "best of" and "most influential" lists in the gaming press are heavily affected by recency bias. It's an enthusiast press, made up by people who want to be there instead of just drawing a paycheck, which makes them easy to manipulate, which in turn means it tends to be dominated by young people, which means it's full of the things that influenced them more than influenced the world.
Someone above already questioned leaving out Rogue when so many games now call themselves roguelikes. Someone else said that many "roguelike" games aren't really a lot like the original game, but I think that misses the point, we're talking about influence here, not similarity, and without Rogue we wouldn't have the huge emphasis on procedurally-generated content we still see today.
If we're talking straight influence, then you can really only include games that are at least a decade old, every one a game that sparked a wave of imitators, or at least one really popular successor. Space War has to be on the list, sure. Pong, the first commercially-successful video game. Pac-Man, as suggested above, definitely. SimCity. Myst. Populous. Joust. Super Mario Bros. The old TTY Star Trek. Zork. King's Quest. Maniac Mansion. Wizardry. Ultima. Dragon Quest. Final Fantasy. The Portopia Serial Murder Case. Xevious. The Tower of Druaga. Asteroids. Q*bert. Tetris. Minecraft. Starflight. Dwarf Fortress. Sonic the Hedgehog. Gauntlet. Street Fighter II. Pole Position. Hard Drivin'. Wolfenstein 3D. Doom. Quake. The Sims. Half-Life. Parappa the Rapper. Tamagotchi.
There, I made a better list than they did. Games press, if you want me to write for you, call. Or, you know, you can just follow my own blog.
posted by JHarris at 8:00 AM on April 4 [15 favorites]
All these "best of" and "most influential" lists in the gaming press are heavily affected by recency bias. It's an enthusiast press, made up by people who want to be there instead of just drawing a paycheck, which makes them easy to manipulate, which in turn means it tends to be dominated by young people, which means it's full of the things that influenced them more than influenced the world.
Someone above already questioned leaving out Rogue when so many games now call themselves roguelikes. Someone else said that many "roguelike" games aren't really a lot like the original game, but I think that misses the point, we're talking about influence here, not similarity, and without Rogue we wouldn't have the huge emphasis on procedurally-generated content we still see today.
If we're talking straight influence, then you can really only include games that are at least a decade old, every one a game that sparked a wave of imitators, or at least one really popular successor. Space War has to be on the list, sure. Pong, the first commercially-successful video game. Pac-Man, as suggested above, definitely. SimCity. Myst. Populous. Joust. Super Mario Bros. The old TTY Star Trek. Zork. King's Quest. Maniac Mansion. Wizardry. Ultima. Dragon Quest. Final Fantasy. The Portopia Serial Murder Case. Xevious. The Tower of Druaga. Asteroids. Q*bert. Tetris. Minecraft. Starflight. Dwarf Fortress. Sonic the Hedgehog. Gauntlet. Street Fighter II. Pole Position. Hard Drivin'. Wolfenstein 3D. Doom. Quake. The Sims. Half-Life. Parappa the Rapper. Tamagotchi.
There, I made a better list than they did. Games press, if you want me to write for you, call. Or, you know, you can just follow my own blog.
posted by JHarris at 8:00 AM on April 4 [15 favorites]
Yeah I guess open world is vague. Maybe "sandbox" game. Shenmue for example is the first game I know about where you could walk into an Arcade on a city street full of people playing arcade games, chat with them and then play a full vintage video game on an arcade machine inside the arcade. Stuff like that was really ground breaking.
posted by dis_integration at 8:00 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 8:00 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
I left out pedit5. See? Making these lists takes thought.
posted by JHarris at 8:01 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
posted by JHarris at 8:01 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
And The Legend of Zelda! Geez, it's almost as if you can't make a good list in just five minutes, who'd have thought.
posted by JHarris at 8:02 AM on April 4 [2 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 8:02 AM on April 4 [2 favorites]
I never played it but from what I know about it there is definitely something important about a game that really pioneered “there’s an ultimate goal but it’s really about getting totally lost in the open world”
Popular Shenmue satire at the time of release. But I only know of it via reputation, as I've never played it, as I could hardly afford a Dreamcast.
posted by pwnguin at 8:28 AM on April 4
Popular Shenmue satire at the time of release. But I only know of it via reputation, as I've never played it, as I could hardly afford a Dreamcast.
posted by pwnguin at 8:28 AM on April 4
I have not played Shenmue but I have owned multiple Timex Easy Set watches, including the same model used by the Shenmue protagonist. You can set the alarm with a quick glance and some muscle memory, and they even made a vibrating alarm version. There is no better wristwatch alarm design. It is an unobtrusive and very convenient way to keep track of time.
The implementation was extremely cheap, however, and rarely lasted longer than 18 months. As much as I loved the product, I got tired of competing with Shenmue fans on eBay to purchase discontinued watches.
posted by Headfullofair at 8:44 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
The implementation was extremely cheap, however, and rarely lasted longer than 18 months. As much as I loved the product, I got tired of competing with Shenmue fans on eBay to purchase discontinued watches.
posted by Headfullofair at 8:44 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
I remember the hype for Shenmue but didn't have a Dreamcast so never ended up playing it. From what I recall after it came out the main description I heard of the game was "forklift simulator" because I guess your main job in game was to drive a forklift? I was more excited for that other innovative Dreamcast game: Seaman. You talk to a human faced fish! And it's called Seaman!
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:50 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:50 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
I think you can make a decent argument for Shenmu being very influential.
As far as I'm aware it's the first big title that removed basically all gameplay from the game and replaced it by walking around, quick-time events and the occasional mini-game. Personally I think it's a terrible game for that reason, but certainly many games have follow it on that path.
posted by the_dreamwriter at 9:16 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
As far as I'm aware it's the first big title that removed basically all gameplay from the game and replaced it by walking around, quick-time events and the occasional mini-game. Personally I think it's a terrible game for that reason, but certainly many games have follow it on that path.
posted by the_dreamwriter at 9:16 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
Hot take: I don't even think Doom should be on the list. If you can look at one of these games and say, "Okay, but this game was massively influenced by ____", then probably _____ should be on the list instead of the game that is on the list. To which point, Doom and Half-Life should both get bumped off the list in favor of Wolfenstein 3D and Quake.
The absence of Rogue is definitely a glaring omission. And on the subject of "games which get -like appended to them", the only really recent game I think probably merits inclusion on this list would be Vampire Survivors, even if Vampire-Survivors-like is a really unwieldy name and we need to come up with something better.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:47 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
The absence of Rogue is definitely a glaring omission. And on the subject of "games which get -like appended to them", the only really recent game I think probably merits inclusion on this list would be Vampire Survivors, even if Vampire-Survivors-like is a really unwieldy name and we need to come up with something better.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:47 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
I'm in agreement with with JHarris's comment upthread, and originally came in here just to say that the only correct answer* of "most influential video game" has to be Space War. Like, you can't even have video games as a concept without Space War existing first.
*Ok fair, Space War is the, shall we say, academically/historically correct answer. Space War was made way back in 1962, however, and a whole lot of video games history has transpired since then. It might not be possible to pick a single video game after Space War as "most influential", though you could probably come up with a bunch of qualifiers for different kinds of influence that helped shape video games as the concept and culture (and industry) we are familiar with today.
posted by Doleful Creature at 9:49 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
*Ok fair, Space War is the, shall we say, academically/historically correct answer. Space War was made way back in 1962, however, and a whole lot of video games history has transpired since then. It might not be possible to pick a single video game after Space War as "most influential", though you could probably come up with a bunch of qualifiers for different kinds of influence that helped shape video games as the concept and culture (and industry) we are familiar with today.
posted by Doleful Creature at 9:49 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
From what I recall after it came out the main description I heard of the game was "forklift simulator" because I guess your main job in game was to drive a forklift?
Not really? The forklift driving (and racing!) segments only come in about 2/3 of the way through the game when you finally manage to get yourself hired on at the docks/warehouse district (so you can spy on some criminals with links to the evil kung-fu guy who killed your dad) and you really only get to drive the forklifts for as many in-game "days" as it takes you to crack the whole crime ring. By the time you actually "git gud" at driving the forklift, you're off to the next plot point.
It's a game where you can literally decide to ignore the main plot and spend all day in the arcade playing Space Harrier and Super Hang-On, waste your allowance on gachapons, hang out in the park practicing your karate moves, or just mope around town acting weird and distant with your girlfriend. It's the closest a game had come at that point to letting the player just disregard the call to adventure in favor of just inhabiting a character's life and exploring places in a game world that ordinarily would just be tucked away in the background.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:08 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
Not really? The forklift driving (and racing!) segments only come in about 2/3 of the way through the game when you finally manage to get yourself hired on at the docks/warehouse district (so you can spy on some criminals with links to the evil kung-fu guy who killed your dad) and you really only get to drive the forklifts for as many in-game "days" as it takes you to crack the whole crime ring. By the time you actually "git gud" at driving the forklift, you're off to the next plot point.
It's a game where you can literally decide to ignore the main plot and spend all day in the arcade playing Space Harrier and Super Hang-On, waste your allowance on gachapons, hang out in the park practicing your karate moves, or just mope around town acting weird and distant with your girlfriend. It's the closest a game had come at that point to letting the player just disregard the call to adventure in favor of just inhabiting a character's life and exploring places in a game world that ordinarily would just be tucked away in the background.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:08 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
Rather than list all the other glaring omissions from this list I'll just say that I think Wikipedia's List of video games considered the best is a lot longer but has a lot fewer obvious omissions and fewer head-scratching WTF inclusions. (Although Rogue is still not on the list, and the first instance of a "Roguelike" on the list is Hades from 2020.)
One specific omission from the BAFTA list I'm curious about, though, just because I've gotten so used to seeing it appear on "Best/Most Influential Video Games of All Time" lists over the years. Is its omission here an indicator that people finally coming around to the idea (which I have personally held for many years) that Myst is overrated? Or is it just another bit of WTFery from this particular list?
posted by mstokes650 at 10:45 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
One specific omission from the BAFTA list I'm curious about, though, just because I've gotten so used to seeing it appear on "Best/Most Influential Video Games of All Time" lists over the years. Is its omission here an indicator that people finally coming around to the idea (which I have personally held for many years) that Myst is overrated? Or is it just another bit of WTFery from this particular list?
posted by mstokes650 at 10:45 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
I can see Super Mario Bros and Mario 64 being in the top 10 but both Half-Life games? I guess 2 kind of introduced the DLC-ification of what used to be called "expansion packs" but otherwise...? And maybe this is my own bias but Dark Souls not in the top 10?
KC:D2 is crazy, tho. It literally cannot have influenced a single game!
posted by Reyturner at 10:56 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
KC:D2 is crazy, tho. It literally cannot have influenced a single game!
posted by Reyturner at 10:56 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
I think Wikipedia is responsible for the "one of the most influential ____ of all time". I noticed it starting to happen with musicians and bands in the early days. Today, almost every band's wikipage carries this phrase. There's this overwhelming need for relevance among fandom which makes the moniker meaningless when applied to so many recipients. But on the other hand: is there an empirical way to justify this claim, or is it just inherently vapid?
posted by peter.j.torelli at 10:57 AM on April 4
posted by peter.j.torelli at 10:57 AM on April 4
The best games and the most influential games are not necessarily the same games. And I think Myst is overrated, but I think it also makes sense as a "good game that's not necessarily influential" - what did it influence that came after it? The Watcher, certainly. The indie puzzle-mystery games of the 2010s, maybe.
But on the other hand: is there an empirical way to justify this claim, or is it just inherently vapid?
It's not THAT empirical, but for example, the end of this video makes the case that the Violent Femmes were very influential on indie rock vocal styles in the 90s and 2000s, and when I hear it, I think, yeah, that's probably true. I think you can make a strong argument for connections like that even when you can't measure them empirically.
posted by Jeanne at 11:02 AM on April 4
But on the other hand: is there an empirical way to justify this claim, or is it just inherently vapid?
It's not THAT empirical, but for example, the end of this video makes the case that the Violent Femmes were very influential on indie rock vocal styles in the 90s and 2000s, and when I hear it, I think, yeah, that's probably true. I think you can make a strong argument for connections like that even when you can't measure them empirically.
posted by Jeanne at 11:02 AM on April 4
.... Ha! An evolutionary family tree of games would be awesome.... But i do not have the sanity or time for that. But would be fun to see like, how DND and rogue gave way to the CRPG games while wizardry inspired the JRPG family. First person shooters going from first person maze games to wolfenstein and Doom, etc etc ad infinitum.
posted by AngelWuff at 11:05 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
posted by AngelWuff at 11:05 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
Wouldn’t Betrayal at Krondor (1993) count as open-world? I recall that you could wander the entire world doing side quests instead of focusing on each chapter’s main quest.
posted by stopgap at 11:40 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
posted by stopgap at 11:40 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
Like we were hyped for it when we had the Dreamcast, and it's nice it got re-released, but uh. no.
I mean, if you consider Yakuza series I guess you could say it was sorta inspiring in that way. I tried to play it but the pacing is so slow. It's got the beat em up of Yakuza and things like Sleeping Dogs. So I guess it's had some influence, but hmm.
I'd argue that if anything is "the most influential game of all time" -- it might be Wolfenstein/Doom.
What is "influence"? Super Mario Bros would be another, I think. (I mean you could say DK inspired that, but it's not really what we think of when we think of platformers).
I'd like to say Tetris, but really there's only ONE Tetris (it is so hard to find a good puzzle game that isn't a match 3 or Tetris).
Civilization is also Influential in terms of mechanics/creation of a genre (though of course even before Civ there were empire games, but a lot of them did their own weird way - Civ established the "formula" methinks(?))
posted by symbioid at 12:35 PM on April 4
I mean, if you consider Yakuza series I guess you could say it was sorta inspiring in that way. I tried to play it but the pacing is so slow. It's got the beat em up of Yakuza and things like Sleeping Dogs. So I guess it's had some influence, but hmm.
I'd argue that if anything is "the most influential game of all time" -- it might be Wolfenstein/Doom.
What is "influence"? Super Mario Bros would be another, I think. (I mean you could say DK inspired that, but it's not really what we think of when we think of platformers).
I'd like to say Tetris, but really there's only ONE Tetris (it is so hard to find a good puzzle game that isn't a match 3 or Tetris).
Civilization is also Influential in terms of mechanics/creation of a genre (though of course even before Civ there were empire games, but a lot of them did their own weird way - Civ established the "formula" methinks(?))
posted by symbioid at 12:35 PM on April 4
Phantasy Star for the (8-bit) Sega Master System in 1987 was a fully open-world RPG - heavily inspired by Wizardry (1981) for the dungeons sections. It still very much holds up and has all the non-linear overworld / pocket dungeon essentials of any modern open world RPG. We were a Sega household, not Nintendo, so I have no idea whether this is also true of Final Fantasy 1 (also published in 1987).
And Shenmue is "good" but as someone with almost two thousand games played to completion or exhaustion, and who has been working in the industry as a game designer for the past nineteen years: Shenmue would not even be in my top 100 most influential games. JHarris' list is much, much closer to what an actual list of most influential games ought to look like.
posted by Ryvar at 12:37 PM on April 4 [4 favorites]
And Shenmue is "good" but as someone with almost two thousand games played to completion or exhaustion, and who has been working in the industry as a game designer for the past nineteen years: Shenmue would not even be in my top 100 most influential games. JHarris' list is much, much closer to what an actual list of most influential games ought to look like.
posted by Ryvar at 12:37 PM on April 4 [4 favorites]
I'd like to say Tetris, but really there's only ONE Tetris
What is interesting about Tetris is definitely not its influence but rather the fact that - because it is based on pure fundamentals like 4-cell topology + gravity + time - it has almost certainly been invented independently in a more-or-less recognizable form by many if not the vast majority of alien civilizations; past, present, and future.
Tetris is, like Pong, probably a universal gaming experience for almost all intelligent life.
posted by Ryvar at 12:43 PM on April 4 [3 favorites]
What is interesting about Tetris is definitely not its influence but rather the fact that - because it is based on pure fundamentals like 4-cell topology + gravity + time - it has almost certainly been invented independently in a more-or-less recognizable form by many if not the vast majority of alien civilizations; past, present, and future.
Tetris is, like Pong, probably a universal gaming experience for almost all intelligent life.
posted by Ryvar at 12:43 PM on April 4 [3 favorites]
I don't even think Doom should be on the list.
Obviously Wolfenstein 3D preceded Doom, but Doom was the one that got everyone excited. Doom showed us the future in a way that Wolfenstein did not and then threw deathmatch on top of things (and Wolfenstein 3D was directly influenced by Catacomb 3D and Catacomb before that, but at some point you have to put a stop to things).
Wolfenstein 3D walked so that Doom could pick up the BFG and run. And Doom did just that.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 1:20 PM on April 4 [5 favorites]
Obviously Wolfenstein 3D preceded Doom, but Doom was the one that got everyone excited. Doom showed us the future in a way that Wolfenstein did not and then threw deathmatch on top of things (and Wolfenstein 3D was directly influenced by Catacomb 3D and Catacomb before that, but at some point you have to put a stop to things).
Wolfenstein 3D walked so that Doom could pick up the BFG and run. And Doom did just that.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 1:20 PM on April 4 [5 favorites]
> It's the closest a game had come at that point to letting the player just disregard the call to adventure in favor of just inhabiting a character's life
Elite had that though. Unless you argue that Elite didn't have a call to adventure at all in which case fair
posted by doiheartwentyone at 1:43 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
Elite had that though. Unless you argue that Elite didn't have a call to adventure at all in which case fair
posted by doiheartwentyone at 1:43 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
> Unless you argue that Elite didn't have a call to adventure at all in which case fair
In the Elite category it is certainly overshadowed by Euro Truck Simulator.
posted by weard_beard at 1:51 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
In the Elite category it is certainly overshadowed by Euro Truck Simulator.
posted by weard_beard at 1:51 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
mstokes650, I've most recently seen Vampire Survivors-likes classified as "bullet heavens" or "action roguelikes", the latter of which seems to be more predominant, though there may be hair-splitting differences between the two.
On a tangent, I've stopped being such a purist when it comes to metaprogression and whether I think a game deserves the "roguelike" title or not. For me, it comes down to what improvement between runs is the bigger contribution to player victory: the knowledge and skill the player gains, or the numbers and unlocks that stack up between runs. Sometimes it's a close call: most of the time, it's still very obvious.
posted by isauteikisa at 1:51 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
On a tangent, I've stopped being such a purist when it comes to metaprogression and whether I think a game deserves the "roguelike" title or not. For me, it comes down to what improvement between runs is the bigger contribution to player victory: the knowledge and skill the player gains, or the numbers and unlocks that stack up between runs. Sometimes it's a close call: most of the time, it's still very obvious.
posted by isauteikisa at 1:51 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
I played Shenmue on the Dreamcast 25 years ago. I loved it. I loved the silly arcade games. I loved driving the forklift. I loved walking around telling people "I'm looking for sailors". I'm also still playing Skyrim. I'm on my 3rd console with it, and I still haven't actually finished the damn game because I spend all my time wandering around on the side quests. In other words, I know what I like, but I'm guessing it's not the same as a lot of people like.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:18 PM on April 4 [6 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 2:18 PM on April 4 [6 favorites]
Tennis For Two was foundational, but fairly obscure until recently? Space War got ports for arcade and Atari VCS/2600, so it could actually influence significantly more people.
If you're counting influences for Wolfenstein 3D, don't forget Wolfenstein 2D: Muse Software's Escape From Castle Wolfenstein, for Apple II.
posted by JHarris at 2:27 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
If you're counting influences for Wolfenstein 3D, don't forget Wolfenstein 2D: Muse Software's Escape From Castle Wolfenstein, for Apple II.
posted by JHarris at 2:27 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
I think the premise itself is foolish, but Shenmue did push for a lot of things we now expect in many types of games so I get it. There isn't an answer to this goofy premise that couldn't be controversial.
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:50 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:50 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
Oh yeah also agree with Survivors likes. I love that genre (well some of them). I use "Survivors-likes" and hate "Bullet Heaven" and agree that there really isn't a good catch all term for that genre yet. But yeah, Vampire Survivors HAS to be influential in the same way Doom & Rogue are because DAMN there are are so many clones (and I even have one I'd like to make LOL).
posted by symbioid at 3:21 PM on April 4 [2 favorites]
posted by symbioid at 3:21 PM on April 4 [2 favorites]
Doom is influential but I think in a bad way. The “forearms and a gun” genre is the worst ever IMO.
posted by caviar2d2 at 3:33 PM on April 4 [3 favorites]
posted by caviar2d2 at 3:33 PM on April 4 [3 favorites]
I'm going to argue that the games industry has it right, and from this point on, I'm going to be referring to a movie like Barb Wire as a Casablanca-like.
posted by chromecow at 4:10 PM on April 4 [3 favorites]
posted by chromecow at 4:10 PM on April 4 [3 favorites]
Tennis For Two was foundational, but fairly obscure until recently?
If you go to the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, I think you can see the hardware it originally ran on, and they boot it up like once a month so people can play. Or they did 15 years ago….
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:16 PM on April 4 [2 favorites]
If you go to the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, I think you can see the hardware it originally ran on, and they boot it up like once a month so people can play. Or they did 15 years ago….
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:16 PM on April 4 [2 favorites]
I think Myst is overrated, but I think it also makes sense as a "good game that's not necessarily influential" - what did it influence that came after it?
Myst's influence is everywhere in video games. Wandering around beautiful landscapes and exploring weird, beautiful, uninhabited (except for monsters) buildings and ruins is one of the most common video game settings. The combination of "What happened here?" environmental storytelling and reading journal entries (or audiologs, the modern equivalent) is in Half-Life, Deus Ex, Bioshock, Gone Home, Dark Souls, Fallout, and lots of other games.
If you have a puzzles in modern action/adventure/RPG games, they're not going to be a Lucas Arts dialogue-driven insult swordfight, or an Infocom guess-the-verb babelfish cascade or a Sierra combine-honey-and-cat-hair-to-make-a-moustache. Whether it's Zelda or Skyrim or Assassin's Creed or Tomb Raider or LEGO Star Wars, you're going to be looking at the world, using your sense of the 3D space, and flipping switches, pushing blocks, opening doors, raising/lowering water levels, looking for hidden codes or color patterns. All that direct "look at the 3D world and manipulate it" stuff is descended more form Myst than any of the other puzzle/adventure game genres.
posted by straight at 12:14 AM on April 5 [7 favorites]
Myst's influence is everywhere in video games. Wandering around beautiful landscapes and exploring weird, beautiful, uninhabited (except for monsters) buildings and ruins is one of the most common video game settings. The combination of "What happened here?" environmental storytelling and reading journal entries (or audiologs, the modern equivalent) is in Half-Life, Deus Ex, Bioshock, Gone Home, Dark Souls, Fallout, and lots of other games.
If you have a puzzles in modern action/adventure/RPG games, they're not going to be a Lucas Arts dialogue-driven insult swordfight, or an Infocom guess-the-verb babelfish cascade or a Sierra combine-honey-and-cat-hair-to-make-a-moustache. Whether it's Zelda or Skyrim or Assassin's Creed or Tomb Raider or LEGO Star Wars, you're going to be looking at the world, using your sense of the 3D space, and flipping switches, pushing blocks, opening doors, raising/lowering water levels, looking for hidden codes or color patterns. All that direct "look at the 3D world and manipulate it" stuff is descended more form Myst than any of the other puzzle/adventure game genres.
posted by straight at 12:14 AM on April 5 [7 favorites]
THE MOST INFLUENTIAL FOODS OF ALL TIME
1. Bread
2. New XTreme-Cheez Doritos™
3. Eggs
4. Wheat
5. Dehydrated Lasagna that Astronauts Eat in Space
6. Air
7. Bugs
8. Regular Doritos
9. Eggs 2
10. Water
posted by oulipian at 11:08 AM on April 5 [7 favorites]
1. Bread
2. New XTreme-Cheez Doritos™
3. Eggs
4. Wheat
5. Dehydrated Lasagna that Astronauts Eat in Space
6. Air
7. Bugs
8. Regular Doritos
9. Eggs 2
10. Water
posted by oulipian at 11:08 AM on April 5 [7 favorites]
Over the years I’ve grown weary of arguing over “roguelike” and whether a thing is more of a “roguelite” or whatever, but I recently solved that problem by now instead calling them nethackvanias
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:27 AM on April 6 [4 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:27 AM on April 6 [4 favorites]
Vampire Survivors is Robotron with Tower Defense characteristics (auto-firing, RPG elements) so I'm going to call Survival games Robotron-likes just to annoy people.
If you're counting influences for Wolfenstein 3D, don't forget Wolfenstein 2D: Muse Software's Escape From Castle Wolfenstein, for Apple II.
It's funny because CW/BCW were developing away from Berzerk, and more towards something with a little bit of a story, a justified maze/dungeon. But Id had no interest/ability in making stories happen so Doom is like the apotheosis of something that CW/BCW really weren't going for. In a way like Bioshock is more of an inheritor of CW than Doom was.
posted by fleacircus at 9:02 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
If you're counting influences for Wolfenstein 3D, don't forget Wolfenstein 2D: Muse Software's Escape From Castle Wolfenstein, for Apple II.
It's funny because CW/BCW were developing away from Berzerk, and more towards something with a little bit of a story, a justified maze/dungeon. But Id had no interest/ability in making stories happen so Doom is like the apotheosis of something that CW/BCW really weren't going for. In a way like Bioshock is more of an inheritor of CW than Doom was.
posted by fleacircus at 9:02 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
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