America vs. Europe

December 4, 2002 11:27 AM

The End of the American Era? Well, at least according to that person. However, this guy says that America is the future, and Europe is the past. Is Europe becoming another Soviet Union? These people have something to say about it. What do you think? 20 years from now, who will be leading the world?
posted by eas98 (40 comments total)

NewsFilter! Oh wait... My bad... :)
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:45 AM on December 4, 2002

I will. Er, hold on a second, let me double-check my calendar. Yep, that's what it says: "2022: Begin leading the world." Well, at least I have some time to prepare.
posted by Man-Thing at 11:50 AM on December 4, 2002

The American Enterprise Institute thinks Europe is teetering toward communism? Good christ, stop the presses.

Seriously, communism is so last millennium. The new boogeyman is is something called an “Islamo-fascist”. I know the AEI got the memo on this, they wrote the fucking memo.
posted by raaka at 11:54 AM on December 4, 2002

America is the future, and Europe is the past

I thought Europe Is Our Playground.
posted by four panels at 11:57 AM on December 4, 2002

my money's on the russia-india-china trilateral tripartite trifecta :D low odds, but a hefty payout!
posted by kliuless at 12:01 PM on December 4, 2002

Q: 20 years from now, who will be leading the world?
A: ???
posted by Fabulon7 at 12:02 PM on December 4, 2002

So much for having any type of meaningful discussion on this subject.. You guys might be better off visiting www.fark.com.
posted by eas98 at 12:02 PM on December 4, 2002

"The locomotive of Europe is the German economy"

That is really an outdated argument. Europe is changing, accept it and don't just belive that we are communists just because we don't let the capital and enterprise rule all them time... even if we do it most of the time.
posted by blink at 12:04 PM on December 4, 2002

Keep you eye on Sardinia! They now have the record for long-lving people (more over 100 than in any other counry based on population); they need first to break away from Italy...then get some American military build up money, then begin branching out. They are using the cover of simple wine-guzzling pasta loving peoples but behind closed doors, lots going on we do not hear about! Fiction? No. When was the last time you heard about Sardenia?
posted by Postroad at 12:04 PM on December 4, 2002

eas98, Metafilter is meaningful discussion Lite. This topic is too complex to brush over with a weblog. Try a good University for a sturdy discussion on this topic.
posted by four panels at 12:05 PM on December 4, 2002

20 years from now, who will be leading the world?
why, the illuminati, same as 20 years ago!
posted by quonsar at 12:09 PM on December 4, 2002

who will be leading the world?

"Leading" is kinda ambiguous, but in terms of military might, I expect the US to continue its 1000 year reign, despite an actually weak economy fueled by dubious accounting and overworked Americans.

I'm quite convinced that the relative decline of the American empire has begun a while ago. Overworked Americans are the source of poor parenthood (think Columbine), unhealthy lifestyles (think overweight) and cultural (think people vs. RIAA) and political (think foreign policy) ignorance.
posted by freakystyley at 12:37 PM on December 4, 2002

Shame that the American Enterprise magazine guy had to listen to such a load of nonsense from the Eurocrats. From my experience (conversations with friends) there isn't much antagonism towards the US although there is concern about America's political direction... Maybe just who I hang out with, though.

As for who will lead the world in 20 years time, I couldn't possibly say, but I would think it is extremely unlikely that either Europe or America are going to be in substantially different positions from where they are now.

An interesting book (which could easily be branded as anti-American by those not willing to give it a chance) about the differences between the US and Europe is The World We're In, Will Hutton. In brief it says that America is prospering hugely but has challenges ahead while Europe is doing pretty well but needs to balance economic growth with social democracy against the backdrop of American economic conservatism. All very communist, I'm sure.
posted by Lleyam at 12:49 PM on December 4, 2002

I heard on NPR that California has a bigger economy than all of France. I thought I might have misheard and I don't have the time to do the research...
posted by CoolHandPuke at 12:54 PM on December 4, 2002

... and political ignorance leads to government unaccountability... and government unaccountability leads to suffering. Then again, in 20 years, I figure Lord Humungus will rule the world.
posted by freakystyley at 12:54 PM on December 4, 2002

In brief it says that America is prospering hugely

America doesn't prosper. Only its corporations.
posted by freakystyley at 12:55 PM on December 4, 2002

CoolHandPuke: Numbers from last year. I think they past them this year
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 1:03 PM on December 4, 2002

CoolHandPuke: I heard on NPR that California has a bigger economy than all of France.

Statistics (in this article) also say that people who live in London have a higher GDP per head than any other country (except Luxembourg and the US) and that the GDP of London is greater than that of the countries of Switzerland, Belgium, Sweden or Russia. However, statistics can prove almost anything but don't reflect the level of influence held by the US and Europe as compared with the rest of the world.
posted by Lleyam at 1:12 PM on December 4, 2002

Steve_at_Linnwood: It's passed... PASSED them this year.

Oh wait... My bad... :)
posted by eas98 at 1:20 PM on December 4, 2002

Thank You Miss Grammar!
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 1:22 PM on December 4, 2002

The US will still be the Big Cheese 20 years from now. Although I believe that its decline will be continuing (and has been overall since sirca 1975) with China and India closing in or slightly surpassing Europe.

I base this on ability to harness people and minimize the influence of international processes on internal legislative action. This is, of course, contrary to nearly every academics' opinion as to what nations need to compete globally on various levels.

Then again, I hope some Pac Island nation leads the world.
posted by infowar at 1:29 PM on December 4, 2002

yeah, it's like:

country - GDP ($billions)

japan - 4149
germany - 1847
UK - 1474
california! - 1415
france - 1307
china (ex-HK) - 1159
italy - 1089
new york - 825
texas - 770
canada - 700
mexico - 618
spain - 582
new york city - 516
brazil - 504
florida - 499

source: investor's business daily (we get it at the office :)
posted by kliuless at 1:31 PM on December 4, 2002

In my humble opinion,
Europe is the past,
America is the present,
Asia is the future.

South America and Africa will continue on their road to nowhere, unfortunately.

Witold
www.witold.org
posted by Witold at 1:49 PM on December 4, 2002

If I had a nickel for every "region X is the future" claim I've heard in the past 15 years, I'd have, like, over 3 bucks.
posted by shoos at 4:46 PM on December 4, 2002

Asia is the future

Asia thinks America is the future. Who's driveing this thing anyway?!
posted by stbalbach at 4:48 PM on December 4, 2002

maybe one word will sum up the future:

china.

truth is, they just don't need westerners.
posted by muppetboy at 5:52 PM on December 4, 2002

20 years from now, who will be leading the world?

In what?
posted by MidasMulligan at 6:51 PM on December 4, 2002

I honestly think that if you're comparing America and Europe, America is leading not only militarily, but also economically and even culturally.

I don't know about this "Americans work too much" thing... I'd rather have an American workload, with all that entails, than the lighter European workload. Why? It sounds good to see all the days you have off, until you realize everyone else does, too. So you have a day off where you can't do anything except stay home, because everywhere is closed. I'm more than willing to work forty hours a week in return for the ability to shop on Sundays.

Culturally there's not even a question. I was in Germany last summer, and I found it funny that even though many Europeans said we had "no culture", their TV was all American shows, their movies were all American movies, their music was all American music. Culture to them = age. Definitely not a trait for someone moving into prominence.

And as much as the leftists might complain about America's military or America's military spending compared to Europe, that's because America pretty much provides the military defense for Europe.
posted by dagnyscott at 7:38 PM on December 4, 2002

Culturally there's not even a question. I was in Germany last summer, and I found it funny that even though many Europeans said we had "no culture", their TV was all American shows, their movies were all American movies, their music was all American music. Culture to them = age. Definitely not a trait for someone moving into prominence.

I'm not really making any claims about the relative worth of US culture v the RoW, but it's worth being clear that culture = a damn sight more that movies, TV and music... Food, architecture, design, literature, invention, ethics... and so on...
posted by bifter at 1:40 AM on December 5, 2002

Statistics are numerical lies. The Euro has gained against the Dollar recently (12 months) and surely the GDP list looks differently now. I remember the 80's when the US $ rate went from 3,20 DM to about half of that in just a couple of years. Looking at comparative stats at the time would have suggested that the US economy went through a total meltdown and the German economy had the most dramatic growth ever experienced. PPP adjustments aren't really correcting currency variation either.
posted by ugly_n_sticky at 3:22 AM on December 5, 2002

America will continue to lead, and probably gain distance. At least as long as the other countries don't emulate it more. You have to separate the PR BS from the reality. For example, look above: California along has a GDP higher than China's and the VAST majority of China's GDP is attached to the strings of foreigners, mostly Americans, using the place for cheap labor. China is not set up to create its own brainpower/creativity, and will never be able to as long as it's run the way it is.

I'm only disappointed that only California is ahead of France, and not Texas or New York, or even Florida.
posted by ParisParamus at 3:33 AM on December 5, 2002

I'm pretty sure these guys'll be in charge.
posted by crunchland at 4:26 AM on December 5, 2002

arg. foiled again.
posted by crunchland at 4:45 AM on December 5, 2002

china's boosters have been out and about recently :D i'm still rootin' for the trifecta!
posted by kliuless at 6:03 AM on December 5, 2002

Bah. We all have a past, we all are the present, and most of us have a future. Saying "{place} is the future" is the kind of stupid gobbledegook that only a marketeer or PR clown would come up with. It doesn't mean anything.

Anyway, the USA's only got a few years before the Yellowstone supervolcano blows up and makes a large radius around it uninhabitable for a few decades.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 6:24 AM on December 5, 2002

Bah. Lousy Euro-ingrates. We bail 'em out twice in the last century and this is the thanks we get? Next time, instead of the Marshall Plan, they can freakin' swim over here and try to get jobs at WalMart!
posted by alumshubby at 7:47 AM on December 5, 2002

America as empire is roughly in it's 1910 Britian period, the strain is beginning to show, the cracks in the facade, but it'll be around little longer.

Someone said that Victorian culture was so focused on death because people could sense the British empire was dying, well, America is getting there too.

I blame Regnery Books, first of all.

But anyways, America is bound to lose it's current position as "number 1" and here's why. When you're in "first place" (and I put quotations around it because i think economics are a horrible way to measure the true success of anything) everyone wants to take you out- read "Lucifier Principle" by Howard Bloom for more on this- and as such, do to the sheer amount of people trying to take you down, you will get knocked down eventually.

After all, America's power is based on our ability to get the resources we need from anywhere, and negotiate to do it. But what if all other countries refused to sell us oil. You could argue that we could use force to get it back, but to do so would be to ignore the reality of things like, oh say, the battle of the bulge.

Every empire fails eventually, Denmark, Spain, France, England, and America.
posted by drezdn at 11:01 AM on December 5, 2002

where to begin. I know I won't even start.

p.s that article was truly appaling, the editor requires shooting.
posted by johnnyboy at 11:12 AM on December 5, 2002

bifter: true, culture consists of a lot of things. But there's no denying that the mass media influence most people more than anything else you're talking about. When you're talking about whose era it is, talk about stuff that people actually pay attention to, not what an intellectual subculture happen to think is cool.
posted by dagnyscott at 5:14 PM on December 5, 2002

maybe one word will sum up the future: china.

Then again, maybe not.
posted by homunculus at 9:41 PM on December 6, 2002