Lookism Gone Awry

March 31, 2003 9:20 PM

Perhaps This Public Image/Persona Thing Has Gone Just A Little Too Far: Luís Campos Lopes, the manager of the Portuguese football team Vitoria de Setúbal has just been sacked for "projecting a negative image of the club". [Link in Portuguese, but please read on.] The reason? Just watch the photo-sequence in the main link. Luís Lopes had trouble putting on his Setúbal vest during a crucial game with Benfica! I.e. the powerful sports media in Portugal and Brazil have had a riot with the photographs and the poor widdle proprietors were embarrassed. So? He may not be a brilliant manager - but isn't this blatant lookism? Isn't "image" becoming much too big for its boots, as it were, in professional sports? [Here is the only English language reference I could find. Please scroll down to "Luís Campos".]
posted by MiguelCardoso (26 comments total)

Agreed, the decision to sack him seems, at least given the reasons you gave, arbitrary and petty. Then again, in North American professional sports, you can get away with a lot worse. But how important is wearing that vest to Portuguese football culture? I ask out of sincere ignorance, given that I know little about the traditions of that game, and that when I picture a sports team manager, I picture a guy in a suit at a hockey game, wearing a concerned look and/or arguing with the refs.
posted by arto at 9:41 PM on March 31, 2003

I'm sorry. . . What was the question? After clicking on this I seem to have forgotten what we were talking about.
posted by sp dinsmoor at 9:46 PM on March 31, 2003

Miguel, clearly it's more than about sports...this seems to move into the realm of national pride - and some might even say an unhealthy sense of nationalism. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Portugese can be obsessed with ceremony, and I think this poor guy steeped over the line!
posted by madamjujujive at 10:05 PM on March 31, 2003

[Tangent. Please disregard, guys.]

Dear madamjuju - you know how much I admire you, in fact love everything you do here. But I hope you'll forgive me for saying

a) You're out of line;
b) You obviously know nothing about sports;
c) You have no right to insult my country.

You may know a lot about almost everything - and in the most charming way - but it's clear you have no knowledge whatsoever of Portugal's delicate sense of ceremony.

Also, now that I'm ballistic, it's all very well decrying boyzone and all that - I dislike it too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're a woman and, as such, (and I'm very sorry if this sounds Old European - just deal with it, "sistah" ~) what the hell are you doing in a thread about sports? And about soccer, European soccer, to boot?

If you want to stay friends, please keep out of my sports posts - I don't post many and so you'll understand I don't like to see them ruined by feminists. However charming. :(
posted by MiguelCardoso at 10:17 PM on March 31, 2003

the Portugese can be obsessed with ceremony

Well that explains volumes.
posted by Ufez Jones at 10:18 PM on March 31, 2003

Most. Undeserved. Overreaction. Ever.
posted by lazaruslong at 11:08 PM on March 31, 2003

Miguel, please tell me that you're joking.
posted by Dreama at 11:11 PM on March 31, 2003

Well, even the best of the boys will be boys I guess, and because I am quite fond of you my good friend Miguel, I am inclined to overlook your little sports-related hissy fit. But please, do feel free to take the gloves off, it will not offend my delicate female sensibilities. As they say all in good fun here in the U. S. when things get heated, "Miguel, you ignorant slut!" (I kid because I love!) :-)

I will say that I know enough about sports to know that your comments are not very sportsmanlike - I would direct your attention to this book. And to see this as just about sports is very narrow - and quite uncharacteristic of you, I might add, Miguel!

And as to the perceived insult to your country, doesn't your hyper-sensitivity just further illustrate my point? TouchyFilter!
Some evidence as to the over-emphasis placed on ceremony can be found here (sorry, Portuguese only) and I think my point is better stated here. (The whole article is fascinating, but if you want to cut to the chase, scroll down to paragraph 27 and then 46.) And finally, this really drives the point home.
posted by madamjujujive at 11:11 PM on March 31, 2003

Also, now that I'm ballistic, it's all very well decrying boyzone and all that - I dislike it too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're a woman and, as such, (and I'm very sorry if this sounds Old European - just deal with it, "sistah" ~) what the hell are you doing in a thread about sports? And about soccer, European soccer, to boot?
If you want to stay friends, please keep out of my sports posts - I don't post many and so you'll understand I don't like to see them ruined by feminists. However charming.

I'm looking for the punch line, but I don't see it.
posted by boredomjockey at 11:29 PM on March 31, 2003

In American football, this would be called piling.
posted by Tacodog at 11:32 PM on March 31, 2003

Oh, and I am hoping that languagehat and y2karl will weigh in here too - I would be surprised if they don't agree with my points!
posted by madamjujujive at 11:54 PM on March 31, 2003

FWIW, juju, I'm all about your POV here. Migs is obviously way trolling here. Is this the beginning of the end of yet another MeFi flameout? Has there been a flameout of this style since SDB? Time will only tell. Until then, long live the ERA!

I mean, really. Who cares about Portuguese soccer after the U.S. triumphed in WC 2002 anyways? Sorry losers.
posted by Ufez Jones at 12:00 AM on April 1, 2003

I don't know about you, but I was totally annoyed, offended and disgusted to see, on that so-called 'English Languge reference' link to see a What-We-Americans-Call-Soccer-Football team named "Al-Jazeera (UAE)" (see 08-02-03). Not only that but they fired one Dutch manager (Jan Versleijen) to hire another (Piet Hamberg). Now if that isn't a smoking gun to prove who is REALLY behind this dirty little war... That's right, The Netherlands! Trust me, InstaPundit is gonna hear about this!

HollandFilter!!!
posted by wendell at 12:10 AM on April 1, 2003

This doesn't surprise me at all - Portugese football has always been completely bizarre. Just last week the trainer for FC Porto, Jose Mourinho, was suspended for calling a game "complete batota" (translation). A batota is a Portugese puzzle made out of match sticks.
posted by eddydamascene at 12:11 AM on April 1, 2003

I think Miguel is playing an April Fool's joke.
posted by Summer at 1:23 AM on April 1, 2003

Hahahaha!

Nice one Migs ;-)

The chimp with the natural yoghurt & the dancing 'lay-dee'[friend of yours?] are kinda cool too...
posted by i_cola at 2:27 AM on April 1, 2003

I think the second link says that the manager is under pressure to leave after an important defeat but isn't going to. I think.
posted by Summer at 3:01 AM on April 1, 2003

Oh great - another soccer feminist trying to ruin this thread. And, this time, an expert in the Portuguese language too. ;)

.Here is further proof of Luís Campos's sacking, in a language you'll understand: "It was Luís Campos' first game in charge at Varzim after being sacked at Vitória de Setúbal - not an auspicious start." [scroll down to 18.3.2003.]

I'm sorry I over-reacted back there, madamjujujive - hey, I was a little high - but your own reaction, fairly dripping with scorn, unfortunately confirmed what I suspected all along. Xenophobia, even in its more guileful dressings, does have that distinct...how shall I put it?...pong.

Although I take your point about nationalism (did languagehat help you find that link?) and even ceremony (dammit, in my haste I forgot about all that old stuff) I think the tone of your post speaks for itself and relegitimates quite entirely my initial objection.

Though I take back the anti-feminist crack, for obvious reasons. Wouldn't want to upset anybody, etc.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 3:31 AM on April 1, 2003

Come on Miguel, you've been sussed. Just give it up.
posted by Summer at 3:36 AM on April 1, 2003

I want you to know I'm taking precious time away from the struggle to save the Pacific Tree Octopus, which has become the ruling obsession of my life, to deal with this petty issue. I think you'll find this clears the whole matter up.

And Miguel, you're not even a Vitoria supporter. You need to calm down and think about the whole thing from a higher standpoint. I suggest you get involved in a true sport like baseball, where these disputes are unknown and everyone involved behaves with dignity and professionalism at all times.
posted by languagehat at 8:54 AM on April 1, 2003

Thanks for adding some sense to the discussion, languagehat. Those Portuguese men can be a little too macho for their own good.
posted by madamjujujive at 9:40 AM on April 1, 2003

"anti-feminist CRACK"? Miguel, your rather filthy slurs are unbecoming of the stature you once held here. Please apologize immediatly and from now on refer to them as "YAMMIES".
posted by Mack Twain at 9:40 AM on April 1, 2003

*muffle, stifle, muffle*
posted by MiguelCardoso at 10:14 AM on April 1, 2003

Damn MeFi members - almost unfoolable and unflappaple too! Even the brilliance of madamjuju (thanks, Juju!) was not enough to push them over the gullibility ledge. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 3:22 PM on April 1, 2003

Misogynistic April Fools jokes are the best!

Next year we take on the blacks for some thighslappin' fun.
posted by Tacodog at 12:08 AM on April 2, 2003

Well, that improvised "point/counterpoint" spat was fun, Miguel, but from my viewpoint, you are too damn gentlemanly to make a thoroughly convincing troll!
posted by madamjujujive at 5:56 AM on April 2, 2003