If your gonna make a post related to Katrina...
September 20, 2005 11:11 PM Subscribe
***The following statements are graphic, truthful, and discuss UNRATIONAL behavior*** The people on T.V., (99% being Black) were DEMANDING help. They were not asking nicely but demanding as if society owed these people something. Well the honest truth is WE DON'T....
We are inviting the lowest of the low to Houston. And like idiots we are serving the people who will soon steal our cars, rape, murder, and destroy our city while stealing from our pockets on a daily basis through the welfare checks they take.
I would call them NIGGERS, but the actual definition of a nigger is one who is ignorant, these people were not ignorant...
I got one of the variations of this in my e-mail from someone I know who is fairly reasonable and fairly pro-Bush. And I started thinking about the "NOLA folks spending their aid money on lap dances" (or what have you) type stories and I started wondering where the racism goes from blur to clarity (the respective blogs taken as whole).
The halfwit dupes like Jillian Bandes who absorb or regurgitate these ideas (unconsciously or otherwise) vs. the overt sort of racism and the monsters that spread it. They can appear strangely wholesome in a bizzaro Olsen twin sort of way. But they are serious in a way that makes the "Bush doesn't like black people" thing seem quaint (in the old-fashioned but not necessarily authentic, sense of the word). But I can't tell which is more insidious, which is more dangerous.
You do know about objections raised in the past to links to Stormfront, right? Just checking. I'll go watch from a distance now.
posted by Jimbob at 11:27 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by Jimbob at 11:27 PM on September 20, 2005
You do know about objections raised in the past to links to Stormfront, right?
Nope. Didn't know. I don't mean to get in anyone's face here.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:30 PM on September 20, 2005
Nope. Didn't know. I don't mean to get in anyone's face here.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:30 PM on September 20, 2005
Links to hate sites without NSFW tags? Man, is your ass grass!
posted by mischief at 11:35 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by mischief at 11:35 PM on September 20, 2005
Consider me schooled.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:37 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by Smedleyman at 11:37 PM on September 20, 2005
Lousy complex internets.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:37 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by Smedleyman at 11:37 PM on September 20, 2005
But there's value in the point that Smedleyman's making. Matt wouldn't tear this down, would he?
BTW, this is some horrifying shit.
It reminds me that a few months back I was walking down the street and this guy started chanting "white power white pride..." I mean I know there's latent, underlying racism in America . . .but overt, ignorant lunacy?
I vomit onto my keyboard. I vomit all over. I can't take this nonsense anymore.
posted by punkbitch at 11:41 PM on September 20, 2005
BTW, this is some horrifying shit.
It reminds me that a few months back I was walking down the street and this guy started chanting "white power white pride..." I mean I know there's latent, underlying racism in America . . .but overt, ignorant lunacy?
I vomit onto my keyboard. I vomit all over. I can't take this nonsense anymore.
posted by punkbitch at 11:41 PM on September 20, 2005
Haha I like the link to Prussian Blue. I think Smoosh are cooler though because they don't cover songs by neo-nazi bands.
posted by andendau at 11:43 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by andendau at 11:43 PM on September 20, 2005
I think I was also freaked out by someone I know well passing the e-mail on to me. Fairly 'normal' person. Not someone I thought would be hateful...not stupid either. Scary.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:46 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by Smedleyman at 11:46 PM on September 20, 2005
I'm surprised my mother hasn't forwarded it to me yet. She believes EVERYTHING her friends and family email her.
posted by mischief at 11:51 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by mischief at 11:51 PM on September 20, 2005
Does this sort of stuff really deserve any wider circulation than it's already getting?
Also, you wanted 'you're' in the title field, not 'your'. Looks.. ignorant.
posted by ikkyu2 at 11:54 PM on September 20, 2005
Also, you wanted 'you're' in the title field, not 'your'. Looks.. ignorant.
posted by ikkyu2 at 11:54 PM on September 20, 2005
Looks.. ignorant.
SNARK!
Meh. It's past 2 a.m. here. Worked all day. Still can't sleep. You have to expect the occasional grammar error.
Apologies.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:58 PM on September 20, 2005
SNARK!
Meh. It's past 2 a.m. here. Worked all day. Still can't sleep. You have to expect the occasional grammar error.
Apologies.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:58 PM on September 20, 2005
It seems like the snopes article itself has enough to declare the emails less than likely true. Can anyone explain why it's still listed as "undetermined" ?
posted by phyrewerx at 11:59 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by phyrewerx at 11:59 PM on September 20, 2005
It reeks of Rove.
It reeks of compassionate conservatism: blame the poor for being poor. Just like Jesus did.
posted by three blind mice at 12:07 AM on September 21, 2005
It reeks of compassionate conservatism: blame the poor for being poor. Just like Jesus did.
posted by three blind mice at 12:07 AM on September 21, 2005
Oh, this is lovely. I'm sure we'll have a wonderful discussion.
Just remember, it's totaly appropriate to non-blacks to use the N-word in any situation. In fact, to take offence to that is in and of itself racist!
phyrewerx: Snopes generally states things as either 'true' or 'false' when they are very certain. This could have been a real person, and in fact the myspace blog post indicates that it can be tracked to a specific individual.
Hooray for humanity!
posted by delmoi at 12:09 AM on September 21, 2005
Just remember, it's totaly appropriate to non-blacks to use the N-word in any situation. In fact, to take offence to that is in and of itself racist!
phyrewerx: Snopes generally states things as either 'true' or 'false' when they are very certain. This could have been a real person, and in fact the myspace blog post indicates that it can be tracked to a specific individual.
Hooray for humanity!
posted by delmoi at 12:09 AM on September 21, 2005
this is one of those things where, I think "Hey, I have an opinion on this! I can contribute!" and then I realize that my opinion is pretty much "wow, that's some pretty hateful, despicable shit."
so, uh... yeah.
posted by shmegegge at 12:09 AM on September 21, 2005
so, uh... yeah.
posted by shmegegge at 12:09 AM on September 21, 2005
Holy shit, I forgot that National Vanguard moved into my town [Charlottesville, Va]. What a depressing reminder this link is.
posted by cloeburner at 12:10 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by cloeburner at 12:10 AM on September 21, 2005
What's crazy is that the family members of people killed on 9/11 got millions of dollars from the red-cross, because people like Bill O'Riley had a fit about the red-cross using the money for anything else.
Yet, $2000 is now an obscene amount of money for the victims of Katrina
posted by delmoi at 12:11 AM on September 21, 2005 [1 favorite]
Yet, $2000 is now an obscene amount of money for the victims of Katrina
posted by delmoi at 12:11 AM on September 21, 2005 [1 favorite]
Is there any question that the most insidious racism, like the most insidious imperialism and the most insidious callous indifference, is that which proclaims it is not such while still pandering to the impulse?
That can be applied to half of the political tactics currently in vogue in the USA.
posted by trigonometry at 12:16 AM on September 21, 2005
That can be applied to half of the political tactics currently in vogue in the USA.
posted by trigonometry at 12:16 AM on September 21, 2005
Does anyone think the hateful writer actually went to help?
posted by Cranberry at 12:17 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by Cranberry at 12:17 AM on September 21, 2005
Delmoi, stockbrokers' wives are accustomed to a different lifestyle from the Southern poor.
posted by Rothko at 12:19 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by Rothko at 12:19 AM on September 21, 2005
What can I do but agree with most of you? Another account of blatant racism. I'm not a PC thug, but it's a bit much to estimate that the vast majority of the people in need were of one colour. And after your home's been destroyed, how many people are going to be bothered to say, "Oh, thank you so much for this bottle of water and food. Wow, now all my worries have evaporated!"
Incidentally, I'm probably going to get accosted by a teacher at school for attempting to follow a link to a "hate-speech site".
Ouch.
posted by malusmoriendumest at 12:25 AM on September 21, 2005
Incidentally, I'm probably going to get accosted by a teacher at school for attempting to follow a link to a "hate-speech site".
Ouch.
posted by malusmoriendumest at 12:25 AM on September 21, 2005
Yet, $2000 is now an obscene amount of money for the victims of Katrina
Ugh.
Fucking hypocricy.
posted by MoralAnimal at 12:31 AM on September 21, 2005
Ugh.
Fucking hypocricy.
posted by MoralAnimal at 12:31 AM on September 21, 2005
As someone who volunteered at the 'dome...it wasn't like that. People were too damned busy on the one side and too damned tired and perished on the other.
But now? Two weeks later? I'm starting to sense almost a feeling of "pullback". "Katrina Kard" carriers are looked askance in line at the store if their purchases include anything beyond basic staples, or if they attempt to get cash back. Things like that. Maybe because we're facing a potential catastrophe this weekend here in this area. I don't know. But it sucks.
posted by WolfDaddy at 12:43 AM on September 21, 2005
But now? Two weeks later? I'm starting to sense almost a feeling of "pullback". "Katrina Kard" carriers are looked askance in line at the store if their purchases include anything beyond basic staples, or if they attempt to get cash back. Things like that. Maybe because we're facing a potential catastrophe this weekend here in this area. I don't know. But it sucks.
posted by WolfDaddy at 12:43 AM on September 21, 2005
I posted a little about the compensation issue in the thread about Blackwater mercinaries from a few days ago... The upshot being, here is a thread on 9/11 victim compensation, and I still have the video available if anyone wants it.
I also saw a very interesting interview with Feinberg just a few weeks ago that was increbidly interesting. I wish I could figure out where I saw it...
posted by Chuckles at 1:05 AM on September 21, 2005
I also saw a very interesting interview with Feinberg just a few weeks ago that was increbidly interesting. I wish I could figure out where I saw it...
posted by Chuckles at 1:05 AM on September 21, 2005
But now? Two weeks later? I'm starting to sense almost a feeling of "pullback". ... Maybe because we're facing a potential catastrophe this weekend here in this area.
Just a theory, but I think it's fundamentally because there is a huge undercurrent of thought in American society that wants to blame the American poor for being poor. It may take its roots in the Protestant Ethic and Puritanism and all that, but Politicians on the right have been exploiting this for many decades, and that (as well as some of the crap that was forwarded around in the first link to Snopes) is he natural result.
Either that, or it's that other wonderful American trait, the short attention span. Because, like, you know, Katrina was so last week.
posted by psmealey at 3:53 AM on September 21, 2005
Just a theory, but I think it's fundamentally because there is a huge undercurrent of thought in American society that wants to blame the American poor for being poor. It may take its roots in the Protestant Ethic and Puritanism and all that, but Politicians on the right have been exploiting this for many decades, and that (as well as some of the crap that was forwarded around in the first link to Snopes) is he natural result.
Either that, or it's that other wonderful American trait, the short attention span. Because, like, you know, Katrina was so last week.
posted by psmealey at 3:53 AM on September 21, 2005
I know there's no shortage of outrage about this kind of thing, and not to add to the pile on, but this thing in particular really bothers me (from the Snopes link):
I don't believe in being poor for life. My family immigrated here, we came here poor, and now thank God, and due to HARD WORK we are doing fine.
When are people of this ilk going to stop taking credit for the accomplishments of their parents, grandparents and great grandparents? They always seem to be going on about the "fact" that *we* worked ourselves up from poverty, *we* never asked for any help and *we* won WWII, so the good peoples of France the UK should feel endebted to *us* for generations more.
I have in-laws that constantly go on about this shit, and I always try to stick it to them, and tell them that *you* did nothing but fuck around and get C's in high school and college, *you* sat on your ass and gained 40 lbs since graduation, *you* don't exercise, do nothing but watch reality tv, and now *you're* complaining about not being able to find a decent job.
posted by psmealey at 4:01 AM on September 21, 2005
I don't believe in being poor for life. My family immigrated here, we came here poor, and now thank God, and due to HARD WORK we are doing fine.
When are people of this ilk going to stop taking credit for the accomplishments of their parents, grandparents and great grandparents? They always seem to be going on about the "fact" that *we* worked ourselves up from poverty, *we* never asked for any help and *we* won WWII, so the good peoples of France the UK should feel endebted to *us* for generations more.
I have in-laws that constantly go on about this shit, and I always try to stick it to them, and tell them that *you* did nothing but fuck around and get C's in high school and college, *you* sat on your ass and gained 40 lbs since graduation, *you* don't exercise, do nothing but watch reality tv, and now *you're* complaining about not being able to find a decent job.
posted by psmealey at 4:01 AM on September 21, 2005
psmealey, I'm willing to concede both your assumptions as to why the prevailing mood seems to be swinging to ... something bad ... here.
What I don't know is what to do about it.
posted by WolfDaddy at 4:41 AM on September 21, 2005
What I don't know is what to do about it.
posted by WolfDaddy at 4:41 AM on September 21, 2005
you don't need to post to neo-nazis to show the pervasive racism that this tragedy has exposed : ...The majority in this country are no longer comfortable with overt racism and frowns upon those who embrace it openly. But it is completely absurd to think that it has been eradicated or that the leader of the Republican Party rejects it. He can't reject it, even if he wants to. Racists are a significant part of his constituency.
As to whether it affected the hurricane response, it's highly unlikely that anyone sitting in Washington said, "take your time Brownie, it's just a bunch o' negroes." I don't know why people persist in thinking that this must work on the most obvious level in order to be true. ...
posted by amberglow at 5:17 AM on September 21, 2005
As to whether it affected the hurricane response, it's highly unlikely that anyone sitting in Washington said, "take your time Brownie, it's just a bunch o' negroes." I don't know why people persist in thinking that this must work on the most obvious level in order to be true. ...
posted by amberglow at 5:17 AM on September 21, 2005
Links to white supremacist websites AND the N-word on the front page AND poor grammar all in one post! But hey, you were tired.
posted by LarryC at 5:19 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by LarryC at 5:19 AM on September 21, 2005
LarryC writes 'the N-word'
Isn't "The N-Word" a comedy/drama show about 5 black men in LA, their loves and hopes and fears?
posted by signal at 5:37 AM on September 21, 2005
Isn't "The N-Word" a comedy/drama show about 5 black men in LA, their loves and hopes and fears?
posted by signal at 5:37 AM on September 21, 2005
I have friends who were once liberal and have turned libertarian. They say things about there being winners and losers, and about how anyone who wants a job should be able to/can have one, and how the welfare state has create dependent and unmotivated people.
I think they'd believe this email, eat it up. When you come to see only two possibilities, independence and dependence, this scenario become plausible and reinforces some core beliefs that are essential to the simplistic worldview. I make argument that there is only interdependence, and they agree that it's that way in theory. But then it comes back down to you either work hard or leech. It sucks.
posted by kingfisher, his musclebound cat at 6:00 AM on September 21, 2005
I think they'd believe this email, eat it up. When you come to see only two possibilities, independence and dependence, this scenario become plausible and reinforces some core beliefs that are essential to the simplistic worldview. I make argument that there is only interdependence, and they agree that it's that way in theory. But then it comes back down to you either work hard or leech. It sucks.
posted by kingfisher, his musclebound cat at 6:00 AM on September 21, 2005
phyrewerx: When I first saw that Snopes article, it was listed as "True", so they've evidently rewritten somewhat on evidence received.
posted by scaryduck at 6:10 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by scaryduck at 6:10 AM on September 21, 2005
As someone who opened his home to over 20 hurricane refugees, let me just say that they were often ungrateful, angry, wasteful. They spent their FEMA money on non-essential items. They spent a significant amount of time trying to figure out how to screw the government and relief agencies.
I was often afraid they would steal from me. And I often didn't feel safe in my own home.
And this was my wife's family. So, I have no choice but to believe many of the the stories I hear from people who worked with hurricane relief efforts. Yes, most people were grateful and happy to be alive and were patient with the volunteers.
But you always remember the assholes.
People who say this is a racial thing are missing the point. This is about how economic resources and level of education directly affect responses to disaster.
posted by ColdChef at 6:12 AM on September 21, 2005
I was often afraid they would steal from me. And I often didn't feel safe in my own home.
And this was my wife's family. So, I have no choice but to believe many of the the stories I hear from people who worked with hurricane relief efforts. Yes, most people were grateful and happy to be alive and were patient with the volunteers.
But you always remember the assholes.
People who say this is a racial thing are missing the point. This is about how economic resources and level of education directly affect responses to disaster.
posted by ColdChef at 6:12 AM on September 21, 2005
But you always remember the assholes. -- ...White suburban police closed at least one bridge to keep a group of blacks from fleeing to white areas. Over the course of two days, a white river-taxi operator from hard-hit St. Bernard Parish rescued scores of people from flooded areas and ferried them to safety. All were white. "A n--ger is a n--ger is a n--ger," he told a NEWSWEEK reporter. Then he said it again. ...
posted by amberglow at 6:15 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by amberglow at 6:15 AM on September 21, 2005
Pointing out examples of racism is the new racism it seems.
Or at least that's what the wing nuts respond with.
Those young girls in Prussian Blue will look like Barbara Bush when they get old.
Bet their daddy tries to protect them from "those people" 'cause "those people" like young blonde girls best.*
* A accurate interpretation from the father of a young blonde haired girl while in Jamaica on vacation.
posted by nofundy at 6:21 AM on September 21, 2005
Or at least that's what the wing nuts respond with.
Those young girls in Prussian Blue will look like Barbara Bush when they get old.
Bet their daddy tries to protect them from "those people" 'cause "those people" like young blonde girls best.*
* A accurate interpretation from the father of a young blonde haired girl while in Jamaica on vacation.
posted by nofundy at 6:21 AM on September 21, 2005
Hah. Stormfront's message boards have the best forum avatars ever. It's like a bunch of people watched the Conan movies and started taking it really, really seriously.
posted by verb at 6:24 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by verb at 6:24 AM on September 21, 2005
Flagged as offensive. Not for Smedleyman's discussion, but because of the choice vocabulary in the article quote.
Come on, man.
posted by voltairemodern at 6:31 AM on September 21, 2005
Come on, man.
posted by voltairemodern at 6:31 AM on September 21, 2005
It ought to be okay to link to stormfront when it is an article about them being racist tards!
posted by jeffburdges at 6:35 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by jeffburdges at 6:35 AM on September 21, 2005
That Prussian Blue link has... upset my morning. "Men of my stock"? Jesus bloody Christ... this stuff just never goes away.
posted by Decani at 6:41 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by Decani at 6:41 AM on September 21, 2005
But you always remember the assholes. -- ...White suburban police closed at least one bridge to keep a group of blacks from fleeing to white areas.
This is not exactly accurate. The New Orleans bridge was closed to ALL traffic, white and black and otherwise, after the Gretna mall was looted and set on fire. The Gretna police department which was SEVERELY understaffed shut off foot traffic to their (mostly dry) city because they didn't have the manpower to insure the safety of their citizens.
Gretna is only a "white area" in contrast to New Orleans itself. New Orleans is approximately 2/3 black. Gretna is approximately 2/3 white. It's not like a fucking country club or anything. Both are impoverished.
posted by ColdChef at 6:49 AM on September 21, 2005
This is not exactly accurate. The New Orleans bridge was closed to ALL traffic, white and black and otherwise, after the Gretna mall was looted and set on fire. The Gretna police department which was SEVERELY understaffed shut off foot traffic to their (mostly dry) city because they didn't have the manpower to insure the safety of their citizens.
Gretna is only a "white area" in contrast to New Orleans itself. New Orleans is approximately 2/3 black. Gretna is approximately 2/3 white. It's not like a fucking country club or anything. Both are impoverished.
posted by ColdChef at 6:49 AM on September 21, 2005
Delmoi, stockbrokers' wives are accustomed to a different lifestyle from the Southern poor.
Y'know, all kinds of people, from IT guys to cafeteria workers to firemen died that day. And even stockbrokers don't deserve that.
posted by jonmc at 6:51 AM on September 21, 2005
Y'know, all kinds of people, from IT guys to cafeteria workers to firemen died that day. And even stockbrokers don't deserve that.
posted by jonmc at 6:51 AM on September 21, 2005
Thanks for this, smedleyman. It's good to drag these scumbags out into the sunshine where we can all see them.
(I do suggest using a NSFW - Racist warning next time, however).
I've spent a fair amount of time investigating the far right myself, mostly the British variety of race-hate peddlers, who tend to have better spelling and grammar than their American cousins, but are identical in terms of motivation: racist hatred.
Spending time on their websites feels like wading through chest-high sewage.
The "mainstream right" would like to pretend nutjobs like this don't actually exist, so that there is no need to talk about racism any more. It's good to see a well-researched post like this that nails that particular lie.
At the same time, the Right are always more than happy to pander to racist opinions, and to adopt any policy ideas that will encourage racism. Blaming the Iraqis for 9/11 is a classic example.
I particularly enjoy hearing Bush supporters saying "We're not racist, because we have Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice."
They really believe that black people can't be racist. And they see nothing racist in that belief.
What I'd be really interested in is how people stop being racist... because that does happen, too.
posted by cleardawn at 6:51 AM on September 21, 2005
(I do suggest using a NSFW - Racist warning next time, however).
I've spent a fair amount of time investigating the far right myself, mostly the British variety of race-hate peddlers, who tend to have better spelling and grammar than their American cousins, but are identical in terms of motivation: racist hatred.
Spending time on their websites feels like wading through chest-high sewage.
The "mainstream right" would like to pretend nutjobs like this don't actually exist, so that there is no need to talk about racism any more. It's good to see a well-researched post like this that nails that particular lie.
At the same time, the Right are always more than happy to pander to racist opinions, and to adopt any policy ideas that will encourage racism. Blaming the Iraqis for 9/11 is a classic example.
I particularly enjoy hearing Bush supporters saying "We're not racist, because we have Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice."
They really believe that black people can't be racist. And they see nothing racist in that belief.
What I'd be really interested in is how people stop being racist... because that does happen, too.
posted by cleardawn at 6:51 AM on September 21, 2005
As an alt-folk artist, I feel actual injustice that those girls are selling more CDs than me.
posted by The White Hat at 6:51 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by The White Hat at 6:51 AM on September 21, 2005
Maybe if you changed your name to The White Power Hat?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:07 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:07 AM on September 21, 2005
Or The Pointy White Hat?
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:31 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:31 AM on September 21, 2005
Cleardawn, I don't know how people stop being racist. My maternal grandfather was a racist, spoke disparagingly of African-Americans, but my mother is very open and accomodating to all people everywhere. My father, raised in the backwoods of Virginia, would sometimes speak negatively of African-Americans (tho I attribute that more to upbringing than actual racist feelings), but I deplore racism of any kind. Sometimes people are able to see the difference between what they've been told and what the truth is, and realize that racism is wrong. Too often the problem is not with a 'race' but with 'people'.
In other words, people suck. This is why I only enjoy the company of my cats...oh my god, I'm a speciesist! Yes! Down with people! Up with cats!
posted by Sharktattoo at 7:32 AM on September 21, 2005
In other words, people suck. This is why I only enjoy the company of my cats...oh my god, I'm a speciesist! Yes! Down with people! Up with cats!
posted by Sharktattoo at 7:32 AM on September 21, 2005
So, the verdict is we all don't like Klansmen or White Power types?
Oooh, I love it when we go out on a limb!
posted by jonmc at 7:36 AM on September 21, 2005
Oooh, I love it when we go out on a limb!
posted by jonmc at 7:36 AM on September 21, 2005
I did shifts in the astrodome medical facility. Suffice it to say that I spent a lot more time there than this "volunteer" even claims to have done, among people who were often in worse shape than the general astrodome population. To a person, the evacuees were polite and well-behaved far beyond what I had expected given the circumstances that they had to deal with. Yes, some of them were not overly friendly, and some of them got frustrated and exasperated with the hours-long waits. Many were distraught. I can pretty much guarantee, however, that if I were in their shoes and someone told me that I was going to have to wait for an hour in a pharmacy line, standing up, or that I was going to need unpleasant medical treatment, or, I don't know, to get off my ass and carry beds (as this idiot seems to have told them), I would absolutely lose my shit.
As a side note, ever notice how often people complaining about the "entitlement" of poor people are actually talking about how they themselves are entitled to something? Usually they feel entitled to acknowledgement from the people they are "helping" (or certainly would help if the people in question were more "deserving) of the helper's vast superiority. If there's not forelock-tugging involved, the people are "ungrateful" or "entitled." Fuck that.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 7:46 AM on September 21, 2005
As a side note, ever notice how often people complaining about the "entitlement" of poor people are actually talking about how they themselves are entitled to something? Usually they feel entitled to acknowledgement from the people they are "helping" (or certainly would help if the people in question were more "deserving) of the helper's vast superiority. If there's not forelock-tugging involved, the people are "ungrateful" or "entitled." Fuck that.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 7:46 AM on September 21, 2005
Oooh, I love it when we go out on a limb!
Come on, jonmc, you're just frustrated that there's a thread where you can't set yourself up in your customary contrarian role. Yet, oddly enough... with that statement, you managed to do just that! Well done, I say, well done!
posted by psmealey at 7:54 AM on September 21, 2005
Come on, jonmc, you're just frustrated that there's a thread where you can't set yourself up in your customary contrarian role. Yet, oddly enough... with that statement, you managed to do just that! Well done, I say, well done!
posted by psmealey at 7:54 AM on September 21, 2005
Well there was this one white power skin chick from jersey I was talking to once and she was cute as hell, all shaved head fringe and black fishnets and the whole deal, she seemed all right, just kind of ignorant and lonely, low self-esteem, which is how I think most of the white power types drift into it (I'm talking about the young ones, not the old brownshirt psycho cult leader types out in Idaho).
We were on a bus and she was talking to me because I had a shaved head and boots on and was wearing a flight and at first I really tried to sort of gently convince her that her position as to white racial superiority was a non-starter, but then the whole looniness of what she was saying just overwhelmed me and I started fucking with her, saying "Well, would you kiss a black guy?"
"No way."
"But what about like a really good looking black guy, what about like Denzel, he's got the crinkly eyes and the square jaw, you'd kiss him, right, no tongue or anything?"
"No way man."
"We'll would you use a bathroom after a jew?"
"Not if I could help it."
"What about someone who was half jewish, half swedish?"
"No because race mixers are the worst."
"Man, you must really have to pee."
"Say which part of Sammy Davis Jr. do you hate more?"
She eventually stopped talking to me and moved seats, since most of the people on the bus were Puerto Ricans I can only assume she preferred their company to a loony white boy, which gives me some hope.
But yeah, I'm not real fond of racists, but I'll take an overt one any day.
PS. As little Ms Cranky says people in extrimis can behave in shitty ways or be really grateful and patient, Black and/or poor people don't have a lock on this, they just get more chances to demonstrate it.
America needs to institutionalize the kindness and compassion that so many of it's citizens clearly embody, it's probably our most pressing need.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:56 AM on September 21, 2005
We were on a bus and she was talking to me because I had a shaved head and boots on and was wearing a flight and at first I really tried to sort of gently convince her that her position as to white racial superiority was a non-starter, but then the whole looniness of what she was saying just overwhelmed me and I started fucking with her, saying "Well, would you kiss a black guy?"
"No way."
"But what about like a really good looking black guy, what about like Denzel, he's got the crinkly eyes and the square jaw, you'd kiss him, right, no tongue or anything?"
"No way man."
"We'll would you use a bathroom after a jew?"
"Not if I could help it."
"What about someone who was half jewish, half swedish?"
"No because race mixers are the worst."
"Man, you must really have to pee."
"Say which part of Sammy Davis Jr. do you hate more?"
She eventually stopped talking to me and moved seats, since most of the people on the bus were Puerto Ricans I can only assume she preferred their company to a loony white boy, which gives me some hope.
But yeah, I'm not real fond of racists, but I'll take an overt one any day.
PS. As little Ms Cranky says people in extrimis can behave in shitty ways or be really grateful and patient, Black and/or poor people don't have a lock on this, they just get more chances to demonstrate it.
America needs to institutionalize the kindness and compassion that so many of it's citizens clearly embody, it's probably our most pressing need.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:56 AM on September 21, 2005
Y'know, all kinds of people, from IT guys to cafeteria workers to firemen died that day. And even stockbrokers don't deserve that.
posted by jonmc at 9:51 AM EST on September 21 [!]
Agreed, but that doesn't change the fact that most of the people who died were upper middle-class folks with pensions and life insurance left behind to well-to-do family members, on top of the ARC payoff. Would you agree that most of the Katrina victims are not in the same situation, to say the least?
posted by Rothko at 8:10 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by jonmc at 9:51 AM EST on September 21 [!]
Agreed, but that doesn't change the fact that most of the people who died were upper middle-class folks with pensions and life insurance left behind to well-to-do family members, on top of the ARC payoff. Would you agree that most of the Katrina victims are not in the same situation, to say the least?
posted by Rothko at 8:10 AM on September 21, 2005
Guess divine wino was using a comedic reductio ad absurd that may as well be a good treatement for those swayed by XYZ supremacists ...opposing them by showing how despicable they are just reinforces them.
posted by elpapacito at 8:11 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by elpapacito at 8:11 AM on September 21, 2005
Come on, jonmc, you're just frustrated that there's a thread where you can't set yourself up in your customary contrarian role.
Please. What are we saying here, really? "Neo-nazis and Klan people? I'm against 'em!"
How very brave of us. It's ultimately self-serving, if you ask me.
Would you agree that most of the Katrina victims are not in the same situation, to say the least?
Agreed. And I think the Katrina victims deserve the same considerations that the 9/11 victims recieved. And I've publicly expressed my disgust with the Bush administrations handling of Katrina. You're barking up the wrong tree here, man.
posted by jonmc at 8:16 AM on September 21, 2005
Please. What are we saying here, really? "Neo-nazis and Klan people? I'm against 'em!"
How very brave of us. It's ultimately self-serving, if you ask me.
Would you agree that most of the Katrina victims are not in the same situation, to say the least?
Agreed. And I think the Katrina victims deserve the same considerations that the 9/11 victims recieved. And I've publicly expressed my disgust with the Bush administrations handling of Katrina. You're barking up the wrong tree here, man.
posted by jonmc at 8:16 AM on September 21, 2005
Wino, I'm sure a good chunk of the current administration would love to do that.... lock compassion safely in a sanitarium somewhere.
*sigh*
Racism definitely still exists, even in 'advanced' states like California. I was working at a dotcom and we needed to hire. The first guys we interviewed were good, but they were all too expensive, so we asked the service for cheaper people. The next batch were all black or female. They were asking substantially less, too.
I was just a flunky, the technical guy on the team... I wanted to hire the first black guy we interviewed. He seemed both talented and high energy, and I thought he'd be great. But we hired a young lady instead. At the time, I thought the hiring manager was threatened by the black guy. Years later, I'm not as sure. The girl we hired worked out well, ended up being quite good. So it may not have been a mistake, but I still wonder what the motivation was.
I couldn't believe how blatant the racism/sexism seemed, though, on the part of that agency... ask for cheaper options and get women and black men. Definitely an eye-opener. In California, yet. I'm not sure anyone but me even noticed.
It's come a long way, but until we get the idea through people's heads that skin color isn't a valid differentiator, that one's "race" is mostly meaningless ("culture" means a lot, "race" means very little), we're not going to solve the problem. The continued insistence on affirmative action, I think, just worsens the problem... because it reaffirms the validity of the distinction. I have no doubt that it was needed in the 1960s, but I think it does more harm than good in the 21st century.
We don't make hiring decisions based on hair color, after all. What does skin color have to do with anything?
posted by Malor at 8:21 AM on September 21, 2005
*sigh*
Racism definitely still exists, even in 'advanced' states like California. I was working at a dotcom and we needed to hire. The first guys we interviewed were good, but they were all too expensive, so we asked the service for cheaper people. The next batch were all black or female. They were asking substantially less, too.
I was just a flunky, the technical guy on the team... I wanted to hire the first black guy we interviewed. He seemed both talented and high energy, and I thought he'd be great. But we hired a young lady instead. At the time, I thought the hiring manager was threatened by the black guy. Years later, I'm not as sure. The girl we hired worked out well, ended up being quite good. So it may not have been a mistake, but I still wonder what the motivation was.
I couldn't believe how blatant the racism/sexism seemed, though, on the part of that agency... ask for cheaper options and get women and black men. Definitely an eye-opener. In California, yet. I'm not sure anyone but me even noticed.
It's come a long way, but until we get the idea through people's heads that skin color isn't a valid differentiator, that one's "race" is mostly meaningless ("culture" means a lot, "race" means very little), we're not going to solve the problem. The continued insistence on affirmative action, I think, just worsens the problem... because it reaffirms the validity of the distinction. I have no doubt that it was needed in the 1960s, but I think it does more harm than good in the 21st century.
We don't make hiring decisions based on hair color, after all. What does skin color have to do with anything?
posted by Malor at 8:21 AM on September 21, 2005
I got this from an African-American coworker this morning, and I immediately thought it was another email myth -- just from the other point of view from those expressed in the links in this FPP. My assumption was bolstered by the fact that I could have sworn I had seen the dogs-on-a-bus picture months ago. But nope, the doggies are Katrina evacuees. And while the circumstances probably aren't directly analogous - the truckload of African-Americans being evactuated from Metairie is probably from the first few days after Katrina, whereas the dog picture is probably more recent, I have to concede that the point made by the juxtaposition of the pictures is a valid one.
posted by ereshkigal45 at 8:25 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by ereshkigal45 at 8:25 AM on September 21, 2005
The email is bogus. My reasoning:
- "shooting back at the help" - I haven't seen any news stories about this that turned out true
- I've heard plenty of other stories of people being more than appreciative of the help. it sounds like he's getting his info from Fox news more than anything else.
posted by destro at 8:42 AM on September 21, 2005
- "shooting back at the help" - I haven't seen any news stories about this that turned out true
- I've heard plenty of other stories of people being more than appreciative of the help. it sounds like he's getting his info from Fox news more than anything else.
posted by destro at 8:42 AM on September 21, 2005
Conservative politicians play to the white supremist crowd with code words like "heritage" and "tradition" and "gun rights". It's an exploitive relationship since most conservatives really don't give a damn about white supremist trailer trash, they just want the votes. Unfortunately this emboldens white supremists and expands their language of racial politics.
Liberals have a more subconscious form of racial condescension whenever they refer to certain non-whites as "articulate" and "well spoken" when its very unusual to hear a white person described that way. Such keywords jump out at me and reveal a little insight into the true feelings of the supposed non-racist liberal.
No matter which direction racism comes from people know when they are being looked down upon and will rightfully react with a raised middle finger.
When a person has lost their possessions, shouted at by cops, told to stand to line for several hours with no explanation, not knowing where the rest of their family is, it is hard to remember to say "thank you" to each volunteer handing you a bottle of water with an expectant attitude. And is it wrong to ask for something else to drink other than water?
Assholes can exist among volunteers as well as evacuees. This email may very well be the result of those two kinds of assholes coming into direct contact. This volunteer was a racist before volunteering and found what he expected to find and what he hoped to find.
posted by StarForce5 at 8:45 AM on September 21, 2005
Liberals have a more subconscious form of racial condescension whenever they refer to certain non-whites as "articulate" and "well spoken" when its very unusual to hear a white person described that way. Such keywords jump out at me and reveal a little insight into the true feelings of the supposed non-racist liberal.
No matter which direction racism comes from people know when they are being looked down upon and will rightfully react with a raised middle finger.
When a person has lost their possessions, shouted at by cops, told to stand to line for several hours with no explanation, not knowing where the rest of their family is, it is hard to remember to say "thank you" to each volunteer handing you a bottle of water with an expectant attitude. And is it wrong to ask for something else to drink other than water?
Assholes can exist among volunteers as well as evacuees. This email may very well be the result of those two kinds of assholes coming into direct contact. This volunteer was a racist before volunteering and found what he expected to find and what he hoped to find.
posted by StarForce5 at 8:45 AM on September 21, 2005
I know there's latent overt, underlying racism in America. See public school funding.
posted by mrgrimm at 8:48 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by mrgrimm at 8:48 AM on September 21, 2005
Wino, I'm sure a good chunk of the current administration would love to do that.... lock compassion safely in a sanitarium somewhere.
You know that's not what I meant.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:52 AM on September 21, 2005
You know that's not what I meant.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:52 AM on September 21, 2005
"shooting back at the help" - I haven't seen any news stories about this that turned out true
My brother was shot at when he was helping people in New Orleans. The truck they were in has a bullet hole in the door. Two black men with rifles were quickly arrested by the SWAT team that was protecting their crew. So...there you go. Not all rumors are baseless.
posted by ColdChef at 8:57 AM on September 21, 2005
My brother was shot at when he was helping people in New Orleans. The truck they were in has a bullet hole in the door. Two black men with rifles were quickly arrested by the SWAT team that was protecting their crew. So...there you go. Not all rumors are baseless.
posted by ColdChef at 8:57 AM on September 21, 2005
That letter is bullshit. No one who would write "I would call them NIGGERS, but the actual definition of a nigger is one who is ignorant, these people were not ignorant" would go volunteer for anything besides the Council of Conservative Citizens Annual Bake Sale.
There is no corroborating evidence that the author was there. None.
It's another Big Fucking Lie from our friends on the right. What a bunch of selfish, hypocritical, asshole liars.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:58 AM on September 21, 2005
There is no corroborating evidence that the author was there. None.
It's another Big Fucking Lie from our friends on the right. What a bunch of selfish, hypocritical, asshole liars.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:58 AM on September 21, 2005
From the first link:
It was PEOPLE'S BEHAVIOR. The people on T.V. (99% being Black) were DEMANDING help. They were not asking nicely but demanding as if society owed these people something. Well the honest truth is WE DON'T.
One argument I've been reading a lot is that people stranded by Katrina just sat around and waited to be rescued because as welfare dependents they were too reliant on government.
We sure do receive mixed signals.
On the one hand we have a Nanny State that limits the risks we can take, from enforced seatbelt and helmet laws to laws about the drugs we can use. Not to mention laws prohibiting suicide.
On the other hand we expect people to be self-relient and apparently during a natural catastrophe we expect people to evacuate themselves.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:20 AM on September 21, 2005
It was PEOPLE'S BEHAVIOR. The people on T.V. (99% being Black) were DEMANDING help. They were not asking nicely but demanding as if society owed these people something. Well the honest truth is WE DON'T.
One argument I've been reading a lot is that people stranded by Katrina just sat around and waited to be rescued because as welfare dependents they were too reliant on government.
We sure do receive mixed signals.
On the one hand we have a Nanny State that limits the risks we can take, from enforced seatbelt and helmet laws to laws about the drugs we can use. Not to mention laws prohibiting suicide.
On the other hand we expect people to be self-relient and apparently during a natural catastrophe we expect people to evacuate themselves.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:20 AM on September 21, 2005
note to Smedleyman:
White supremacist message board posts don't deserve any more attention than they already have. Stupid link.
posted by thisisdrew at 9:23 AM on September 21, 2005
White supremacist message board posts don't deserve any more attention than they already have. Stupid link.
posted by thisisdrew at 9:23 AM on September 21, 2005
I was in a shelter in Houston with about 40 evacuees the day of Katrina, and about 14 of them were utterly horrific people who neither my girlfriend or I could stand to be around. The shelter was pretty much trashed within a few days, basic human respect was rare between evacuees, and we chose to sleep in our car`rather than deal with the growing group of preposterously obnoxious refugees that repidly filled the shelter.
What can I tell you? Not everyone who fled New Orleans was an example of perfect civility. Plenty of people were. Some people are going to waste their Red Cross money. Some will spend it wisely. So somebody gets a lap dance, so some are unpleasant, so a handfull are looters, so what?
It's a freakin' national disaster, the destruction of an entire`city (and, as I have written, one I expect will not be fixed). Not everybody is going to be on their best behavior. But, of course, racists will use this to foreward their own agenda. I am more worried about neo-conservatives using it to foreward theirs.
posted by maxsparber at 9:25 AM on September 21, 2005
What can I tell you? Not everyone who fled New Orleans was an example of perfect civility. Plenty of people were. Some people are going to waste their Red Cross money. Some will spend it wisely. So somebody gets a lap dance, so some are unpleasant, so a handfull are looters, so what?
It's a freakin' national disaster, the destruction of an entire`city (and, as I have written, one I expect will not be fixed). Not everybody is going to be on their best behavior. But, of course, racists will use this to foreward their own agenda. I am more worried about neo-conservatives using it to foreward theirs.
posted by maxsparber at 9:25 AM on September 21, 2005
That letter is bullshit. No one who would write "I would call them NIGGERS, but the actual definition of a nigger is one who is ignorant, these people were not ignorant" would go volunteer for anything besides the Council of Conservative Citizens Annual Bake Sale.
It's another Big Fucking Lie from our friends on the right. What a bunch of selfish, hypocritical, asshole liars.
That's right, because only conservatives and people on the right are assholes and racists. Way to generalize.
posted by gyc at 9:44 AM on September 21, 2005
It's another Big Fucking Lie from our friends on the right. What a bunch of selfish, hypocritical, asshole liars.
That's right, because only conservatives and people on the right are assholes and racists. Way to generalize.
posted by gyc at 9:44 AM on September 21, 2005
That's right, because only conservatives and people on the right are assholes and racists. Way to generalize.
posted by gyc at 9:44 AM PST on September 21
Assholes come in all colors, shapes, and sizes, but I guaranfuckingtee you someone who says "I would call them NIGGERS, but the actual definition of a nigger is one who is ignorant, these people were not ignorant" is not voting Democrat.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:15 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by gyc at 9:44 AM PST on September 21
Assholes come in all colors, shapes, and sizes, but I guaranfuckingtee you someone who says "I would call them NIGGERS, but the actual definition of a nigger is one who is ignorant, these people were not ignorant" is not voting Democrat.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:15 AM on September 21, 2005
"I would call them NIGGERS, but the actual definition of a nigger is one who is ignorant, these people were not ignorant" is not voting Democrat.
Well, at least not since Lyndon Johnson.
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:17 AM on September 21, 2005
Well, at least not since Lyndon Johnson.
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:17 AM on September 21, 2005
Yes, DW, seeing as how it's the year 2005. If the Republicans were still the party of racial equality, then I would be voting for them. But they're not.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:23 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:23 AM on September 21, 2005
Couldn't agree more, just taking the piss.
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:28 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:28 AM on September 21, 2005
White supremacist message board posts don't deserve any more attention than they already have. Stupid link.
I am ambivilent. Providing free publicity for fucktards doesn't make me happy but I wonder if we're not better off airing out the stink where others can see it for what it is. It's not like people looking for hate sites won't be able to find them once they figure out that complicated 'google' thing. Given the number of people who really think racism isn't a problem in America anymore, perhaps holding these roaches up to the light of day has value.
posted by phearlez at 10:43 AM on September 21, 2005
I am ambivilent. Providing free publicity for fucktards doesn't make me happy but I wonder if we're not better off airing out the stink where others can see it for what it is. It's not like people looking for hate sites won't be able to find them once they figure out that complicated 'google' thing. Given the number of people who really think racism isn't a problem in America anymore, perhaps holding these roaches up to the light of day has value.
posted by phearlez at 10:43 AM on September 21, 2005
Assholes come in all colors, shapes, and sizes, but I guaranfuckingtee you someone who says "I would call them NIGGERS, but the actual definition of a nigger is one who is ignorant, these people were not ignorant" is not voting Democrat.
posted by delmoi at 10:44 AM on September 21, 2005
"There are white niggers. I've seen a lot of white niggers in my time. I'm going to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and I'd just as soon quit talking about it so much."Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV) in march 2001.
posted by delmoi at 10:44 AM on September 21, 2005
Jesus Christ, that guy sucks. Surely there are other pro-Constitution citizens in West Virginia other than that idiot.
*sits in corner*
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:08 AM on September 21, 2005
*sits in corner*
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:08 AM on September 21, 2005
Metafilter: may very well be the result of those two kinds of assholes coming into direct contact
posted by alumshubby at 11:16 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by alumshubby at 11:16 AM on September 21, 2005
"I guaranfuckingtee you someone who says 'I would call them NIGGERS, but the actual definition of a nigger is one who is ignorant, these people were not ignorant' is not voting Democrat."
You haven't met my father. He hates blacks only slightly less than he hates rich people.
posted by mischief at 11:45 AM on September 21, 2005
You haven't met my father. He hates blacks only slightly less than he hates rich people.
posted by mischief at 11:45 AM on September 21, 2005
Oprah must throw him into a right tizzy.
posted by Divine_Wino at 11:55 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by Divine_Wino at 11:55 AM on September 21, 2005
StarForce5: Liberals have a more subconscious form of racial condescension whenever they refer to certain non-whites as "articulate" and "well spoken" when its very unusual to hear a white person described that way.
I got your other point about "heritage" as a code word, I use and hear these words used (along with "inarticulate") all the time to mean what they literally mean. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
posted by wheat at 11:55 AM on September 21, 2005
They really believe that black people can't be racist.
Seems so. One black gal was rant'n about how it was the blood of black men that fertlized the land and was going on about how the Katernia-thing was 'all about race'.
I asked her why she was ignoring all the dead Indians who were on the land before. Never did get to ask her about 7 year old who's mother is white and father is black telling a white adult "What you doing here? Don't you know this is a black neighborhood", or ask about the local 'African heritage choice school', or about the black only business directory, or if she'd ever made a comment to a white woman dating a black man like "What you doing taking away a brother from us?"
posted by rough ashlar at 12:17 PM on September 21, 2005
Seems so. One black gal was rant'n about how it was the blood of black men that fertlized the land and was going on about how the Katernia-thing was 'all about race'.
I asked her why she was ignoring all the dead Indians who were on the land before. Never did get to ask her about 7 year old who's mother is white and father is black telling a white adult "What you doing here? Don't you know this is a black neighborhood", or ask about the local 'African heritage choice school', or about the black only business directory, or if she'd ever made a comment to a white woman dating a black man like "What you doing taking away a brother from us?"
posted by rough ashlar at 12:17 PM on September 21, 2005
How very brave of us. It's ultimately self-serving, if you ask me.
Yeah, okay, it is. But, so what? I know enough people that live in the erstwhile liberal suburbs of New York, Seattle, Chicago and elsewhere that would have happily agreed with the text in the snopes mail, and forwarded it on to ten other "like-minded" people. It's disgusting really, but that's beside the point. The question I had is really how do you make people realize that they're relying on easy stereotypes that have been burned into our consciousness since the Reagan years ("welfare queens").
The more insidious, and ultimately more terrifying part of the FPP was not the neo-nazi fuck-heads, but the people who consider themselves to be in the mainstream and yet give in to the lazy racism, classism embodied in that mail, and don't bother to question it.
posted by psmealey at 1:10 PM on September 21, 2005
Yeah, okay, it is. But, so what? I know enough people that live in the erstwhile liberal suburbs of New York, Seattle, Chicago and elsewhere that would have happily agreed with the text in the snopes mail, and forwarded it on to ten other "like-minded" people. It's disgusting really, but that's beside the point. The question I had is really how do you make people realize that they're relying on easy stereotypes that have been burned into our consciousness since the Reagan years ("welfare queens").
The more insidious, and ultimately more terrifying part of the FPP was not the neo-nazi fuck-heads, but the people who consider themselves to be in the mainstream and yet give in to the lazy racism, classism embodied in that mail, and don't bother to question it.
posted by psmealey at 1:10 PM on September 21, 2005
"[blah blah blah] embodied in that mail, and don't bother to question it."
Welcome to the Intarweb. Perhaps you could convince them first that some ill kid does not really want xmas cards.
posted by mischief at 1:36 PM on September 21, 2005
Welcome to the Intarweb. Perhaps you could convince them first that some ill kid does not really want xmas cards.
posted by mischief at 1:36 PM on September 21, 2005
racist code words like "heritage" and "tradition" and "gun rights".
Uh. Gun rights? That's racist?
Again, as long as that attitude exists don't ever wonder why the left can't recapture the mainstream.
I would say Black gun ownership may be one of the reasons you DON'T see overt racism in public as much these days. I'd love to see one of these dipshits do a whitepower rally in East LA for instance.
posted by tkchrist at 2:05 PM on September 21, 2005
Uh. Gun rights? That's racist?
Again, as long as that attitude exists don't ever wonder why the left can't recapture the mainstream.
I would say Black gun ownership may be one of the reasons you DON'T see overt racism in public as much these days. I'd love to see one of these dipshits do a whitepower rally in East LA for instance.
posted by tkchrist at 2:05 PM on September 21, 2005
tkchrist: The Left ARE the mainstream.
Nutters with guns are nutters with guns, whatever their color, and don't deserve any respect at all. Fear, perhaps. A swift blow to the back of the head before they kill somebody, perhaps. Respect, no.
posted by cleardawn at 2:56 PM on September 21, 2005
Nutters with guns are nutters with guns, whatever their color, and don't deserve any respect at all. Fear, perhaps. A swift blow to the back of the head before they kill somebody, perhaps. Respect, no.
posted by cleardawn at 2:56 PM on September 21, 2005
To clarify my statement, I thought the mainstream were those who found that the cycle of give and take by the left and the right results in a satisfying balance, so why bother with participating in the process.
posted by mischief at 3:28 PM on September 21, 2005
posted by mischief at 3:28 PM on September 21, 2005
Perhaps what cleardawn meant to say was those who are identified as anything other than hard-core ultra right wingers are the 'left', which basically means anyone who's not a white-supremacist self-hating poor white trash ultra-religious nutter?
posted by mk1gti at 3:53 PM on September 21, 2005
posted by mk1gti at 3:53 PM on September 21, 2005
We are all racist. born and bred. To understand that helps when you want to sift through the bullshit.
One thing I have noticed; is that the poorer a person's upbringing the more prejudiced a person is. In any hue of the color wheel.
Lack of access to even a rudimentary edumacation can be a bummer.
Knowing severely racist people on all sides of the color divide I would say, as I age, things are getting worse not better.
Most of us eventually earn enough to avoid the fight happening underneath our income.
posted by Max Power at 4:13 PM on September 21, 2005
One thing I have noticed; is that the poorer a person's upbringing the more prejudiced a person is. In any hue of the color wheel.
Lack of access to even a rudimentary edumacation can be a bummer.
Knowing severely racist people on all sides of the color divide I would say, as I age, things are getting worse not better.
Most of us eventually earn enough to avoid the fight happening underneath our income.
posted by Max Power at 4:13 PM on September 21, 2005
That letter is bullshit. No one who would write "I would call them [...]" would go volunteer for anything besides the Council of Conservative Citizens Annual Bake Sale.
oh, you'd be surprised. this letter could have easily been written (without the overt slurs) by someone like my mother. i swear she volunteered for Habitat for Humanity just so she could prove to herself that poor folks really don't know how to handle money. she spent years afterward using her 6 month stint as "proof" for why poor people deserve their lot in life.
people will see what they hope to see.
i call bullshit on the letter most because of his constant use of obviously false "stats"--70% did! 20% where [sic] appreciative, 10% took the food without any comment and the other 70% had some disgusting comment to say.
what, did the guy take notes? have a clicker-counter in his pocket?
posted by RedEmma at 4:53 PM on September 21, 2005
oh, you'd be surprised. this letter could have easily been written (without the overt slurs) by someone like my mother. i swear she volunteered for Habitat for Humanity just so she could prove to herself that poor folks really don't know how to handle money. she spent years afterward using her 6 month stint as "proof" for why poor people deserve their lot in life.
people will see what they hope to see.
i call bullshit on the letter most because of his constant use of obviously false "stats"--70% did! 20% where [sic] appreciative, 10% took the food without any comment and the other 70% had some disgusting comment to say.
what, did the guy take notes? have a clicker-counter in his pocket?
posted by RedEmma at 4:53 PM on September 21, 2005
But you always remember the assholes. -- ...White suburban police closed at least one bridge to keep a group of blacks from fleeing to white areas.
Jeesus Christ, amberglow, what are you trying to prove by posting all this emotional tosh?
posted by uncanny hengeman at 4:54 PM on September 21, 2005
Jeesus Christ, amberglow, what are you trying to prove by posting all this emotional tosh?
posted by uncanny hengeman at 4:54 PM on September 21, 2005
Stacey, we can go to the damn gunshop together. Todd?
posted by mwhybark at 4:55 PM on September 21, 2005
posted by mwhybark at 4:55 PM on September 21, 2005
We are all racist. born and bred.
No, quite simply no. As much are we're all intelligent, born and bred or we're all stupid, born and bred.
Actually you willy nilly went to one of necessary conditions for racism which is
* a propension to acritically accept absurdly large generalizations a.k.a " you believe any shit thrown to you"
combined with the human need of venting frustation and anger, channeled in the worst possible way of expressing hate toward an imaginary enemy..a convenient not proved source of almost all that's bad.
------------------------------------------------
As simple as that : one must prove oneself
1. that everybody, really everybody in the category white, red, blue, yellow, nigger, wigger, whatever..constantly behaves exactly in the same way
2. that there is no exception to the rule
And that's all but impossible, but nobody ever did that or ever will...because they know there will always be an exception. Exceptions usually DON'T prove rules ... they prove the rules to be false or incomplete or that we did an error in categorization..but how convenient, the error is always recognized AFTER the damage has been done. FUCK THAT.
Whotta shit ..maybe our categorization was wrong...but you'll never find XYZ supremacist telling themselves they may be wrong becase that'd throw them in denial making them realize how lame they really are.
posted by elpapacito at 5:12 PM on September 21, 2005
No, quite simply no. As much are we're all intelligent, born and bred or we're all stupid, born and bred.
Actually you willy nilly went to one of necessary conditions for racism which is
* a propension to acritically accept absurdly large generalizations a.k.a " you believe any shit thrown to you"
combined with the human need of venting frustation and anger, channeled in the worst possible way of expressing hate toward an imaginary enemy..a convenient not proved source of almost all that's bad.
------------------------------------------------
As simple as that : one must prove oneself
1. that everybody, really everybody in the category white, red, blue, yellow, nigger, wigger, whatever..constantly behaves exactly in the same way
2. that there is no exception to the rule
And that's all but impossible, but nobody ever did that or ever will...because they know there will always be an exception. Exceptions usually DON'T prove rules ... they prove the rules to be false or incomplete or that we did an error in categorization..but how convenient, the error is always recognized AFTER the damage has been done. FUCK THAT.
Whotta shit ..maybe our categorization was wrong...but you'll never find XYZ supremacist telling themselves they may be wrong becase that'd throw them in denial making them realize how lame they really are.
posted by elpapacito at 5:12 PM on September 21, 2005
Well, believe what you want, elcapacito. To me, your comment smells like high-falutin' horseshit, with a side of self-righteousness.
posted by mischief at 5:26 PM on September 21, 2005
posted by mischief at 5:26 PM on September 21, 2005
I particularly enjoy hearing Bush supporters saying "We're not racist, because we have Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice."
They really believe that black people can't be racist. And they see nothing racist in that belief.
I don't think that people who take that position think that black people can't be racist. I think they believe that an administration that appoints black people to especially important cabinet positions easily demonstrates that it is not racially exclusive.
Can a racist white person hire a black person to give the appearance of racial acceptance and tolerance? Yes. But just because it is possible doesn't make it so in every circumstance.
Peace out.
posted by bugmuncher at 5:50 PM on September 21, 2005
They really believe that black people can't be racist. And they see nothing racist in that belief.
I don't think that people who take that position think that black people can't be racist. I think they believe that an administration that appoints black people to especially important cabinet positions easily demonstrates that it is not racially exclusive.
Can a racist white person hire a black person to give the appearance of racial acceptance and tolerance? Yes. But just because it is possible doesn't make it so in every circumstance.
Peace out.
posted by bugmuncher at 5:50 PM on September 21, 2005
mischief: maybe you stepped on some shit and didn't clean your shoe appropriately ? Check then read again, who knows it may change for better.
posted by elpapacito at 6:26 AM on September 22, 2005
posted by elpapacito at 6:26 AM on September 22, 2005
I posted about Prussian Blue a long time ago. Now, I'm think that once they get their hands on some big black cock, they'll probably change their tune. If just to piss off their parents.
posted by fungible at 6:39 AM on September 22, 2005
posted by fungible at 6:39 AM on September 22, 2005
If these Prussian Blue girls ever go missing in the Carribean Fox News will pre-empt everything for months covering them.
posted by nofundy at 10:13 AM on September 22, 2005
posted by nofundy at 10:13 AM on September 22, 2005
I posted about Prussian Blue a long time ago. Now, I'm think that once they get their hands on some big black cock, they'll probably change their tune.
I just had an idea for a porn plot that will make me millions.
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:16 AM on September 22, 2005
I just had an idea for a porn plot that will make me millions.
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:16 AM on September 22, 2005
"White supremacist message board posts don't deserve any more attention than they already have. Stupid link."
Noted.
I suspect though that many people haven’t really read any of it. I enjoyed the ‘trying to convince you’ stuff much in the way I get a charge out of talking to Jehovah’s Witnesses when the come to my door (I could probably teach a class in comparative religion).
What worries me is that some of it is seductive precisely because it doesn’t shout “N-Word” but uses ideas that...I dunno seem to be in the undercurrent of the American psyche somewhere.
I again apologise to folks who were shocked by my poor grammar and my use of the N-word on the main page. But I think we do need to examine these ideas in others and in ourselves. I had a buddy who committed suicide in high school who was one of the few black guys in the school. Everyone liked him. No one would go to the prom with him. I’ve had plenty of guys from all over who I was tight with in the military, but driving down the street in my (otherwise lilly white) suburb I still notice a black guy walking down the street.
I’d notice a nun in full dress as well as somewhat out of place with the single family home tree lined streets etc.
But I wonder where that “Hey, black guy....I wonder... if he lives here...?” blurs into the forwarding of this type of e-mail - blurs to the views of the vanguard types.
Clearly we all abhor racism, but those unconscious rote thoughts seem insidious.
I think they (Vanguard, et. al.) do deserve more attention. I’m with Steven Biko on confrontation. You need confrontation, not so much as conflict, but as communication and accountability for ideas and views. Communication I believe is the key to understanding - obviously others, but also ourselves. Being a master, one is bound by the chain as well. The racists ideas aren’t wrong simply because it’s not nice to think that way, but because they deny the humanity of others and thus of themselves. They adhere to a rote system rather than accept feedback. They are robots. One must change the oppressor and the oppressed back into humans.
“The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.”
- Biko.
But the opposite is also true.
They might not want to hear about it, but addicts/alcoholics, etc. don’t want to listen either.
The road to recovering one’s humanity is a bitch. I’ve been there. Still working on it.
But I do sincerely apologise for not flagging/tagging the hell out of this. No excuses. If you’re familiar with my posts, you know I tend to be somewhat sloppy but earnest. Hopefully sometimes one makes up for the other.
---
Yeah, that Prussian Blue scares me more than a pack of wilding skinheads man. I’m sure they’d be happy to turn their parents in to Homeland Security if they were being disloyal.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:12 PM on September 22, 2005
Noted.
I suspect though that many people haven’t really read any of it. I enjoyed the ‘trying to convince you’ stuff much in the way I get a charge out of talking to Jehovah’s Witnesses when the come to my door (I could probably teach a class in comparative religion).
What worries me is that some of it is seductive precisely because it doesn’t shout “N-Word” but uses ideas that...I dunno seem to be in the undercurrent of the American psyche somewhere.
I again apologise to folks who were shocked by my poor grammar and my use of the N-word on the main page. But I think we do need to examine these ideas in others and in ourselves. I had a buddy who committed suicide in high school who was one of the few black guys in the school. Everyone liked him. No one would go to the prom with him. I’ve had plenty of guys from all over who I was tight with in the military, but driving down the street in my (otherwise lilly white) suburb I still notice a black guy walking down the street.
I’d notice a nun in full dress as well as somewhat out of place with the single family home tree lined streets etc.
But I wonder where that “Hey, black guy....I wonder... if he lives here...?” blurs into the forwarding of this type of e-mail - blurs to the views of the vanguard types.
Clearly we all abhor racism, but those unconscious rote thoughts seem insidious.
I think they (Vanguard, et. al.) do deserve more attention. I’m with Steven Biko on confrontation. You need confrontation, not so much as conflict, but as communication and accountability for ideas and views. Communication I believe is the key to understanding - obviously others, but also ourselves. Being a master, one is bound by the chain as well. The racists ideas aren’t wrong simply because it’s not nice to think that way, but because they deny the humanity of others and thus of themselves. They adhere to a rote system rather than accept feedback. They are robots. One must change the oppressor and the oppressed back into humans.
“The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.”
- Biko.
But the opposite is also true.
They might not want to hear about it, but addicts/alcoholics, etc. don’t want to listen either.
The road to recovering one’s humanity is a bitch. I’ve been there. Still working on it.
But I do sincerely apologise for not flagging/tagging the hell out of this. No excuses. If you’re familiar with my posts, you know I tend to be somewhat sloppy but earnest. Hopefully sometimes one makes up for the other.
---
Yeah, that Prussian Blue scares me more than a pack of wilding skinheads man. I’m sure they’d be happy to turn their parents in to Homeland Security if they were being disloyal.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:12 PM on September 22, 2005
you know, i just can never trust someone who throws "blue" or "polka dot" into a run-down of all the supposed categories of color people's skin is. WTF is that about, anyway?
(as my old man friend Perry said to my hometown mayor, "It's a nothin' kinda statement, and you don't want to be sayin' it.")
posted by RedEmma at 4:20 PM on September 22, 2005
(as my old man friend Perry said to my hometown mayor, "It's a nothin' kinda statement, and you don't want to be sayin' it.")
posted by RedEmma at 4:20 PM on September 22, 2005
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"Be the viking soldier.
Hail the Gods!"
Jesus F'ing Christ, man.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:13 PM on September 20, 2005