"you rollin'?" "Heh, for 9 years." *twitch*
April 4, 2006 12:37 AM Subscribe
using mind-altering substances in a mind-destroying fashion ruins the fun.
posted by carsonb at 12:53 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by carsonb at 12:53 AM on April 4, 2006
Mr A was also a heavy cannabis user, and when he was encouraged to decrease his use, his paranoia and hallucinations disappeared and his anxiety abated.
Lightweight.
posted by three blind mice at 12:55 AM on April 4, 2006
Lightweight.
posted by three blind mice at 12:55 AM on April 4, 2006
In the case of Mr A, a structural MRI brain scan failed to show any obvious damage or atrophy in his brain.
Faker.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 12:59 AM on April 4, 2006
Faker.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 12:59 AM on April 4, 2006
How did he get the money to do 25 pills a day if he was permanently fucked?
posted by lunkfish at 1:18 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by lunkfish at 1:18 AM on April 4, 2006
I don't touch the stuff, but if he actually took that much and isn't dead wouldn't it suggest that taking it responsibly might not be so bad?
posted by 2sheets at 1:29 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by 2sheets at 1:29 AM on April 4, 2006
How did he get the money to do 25 pills a day if he was permanently fucked?
1. purchase 100 hits
2. rave
3. sell 75 hits
4. profit!
posted by carsonb at 1:32 AM on April 4, 2006
1. purchase 100 hits
2. rave
3. sell 75 hits
4. profit!
posted by carsonb at 1:32 AM on April 4, 2006
This is obviously an extreme case so we should not blow any observations out of proportionIs that how they do things outside of the US? Weird.
posted by aubilenon at 1:36 AM on April 4, 2006
I reckon he must have had to hold down some sort of job as well if he was actually doing 25 a day, but either way it's quite scary that he could hold himself together enough to manage.
posted by lunkfish at 1:42 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by lunkfish at 1:42 AM on April 4, 2006
I'd love to see Morgan Spurlock do this.
posted by RokkitNite at 1:43 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by RokkitNite at 1:43 AM on April 4, 2006
Change the text to "How not to do Ecstasy", but I'm sure most of it was MDMA.
Is anyone surprised by this, though?
He did have a history with other drugs, of course: At the time of his presentation, Mr. A reported current cannabis consumption, together with a previous history of polydrug misuse (i.e., solvents, benzodiazepines, amphetamines, LSD, cocaine, heroin)
posted by Gyan at 1:46 AM on April 4, 2006
Is anyone surprised by this, though?
He did have a history with other drugs, of course: At the time of his presentation, Mr. A reported current cannabis consumption, together with a previous history of polydrug misuse (i.e., solvents, benzodiazepines, amphetamines, LSD, cocaine, heroin)
posted by Gyan at 1:46 AM on April 4, 2006
2sheets: On the contrary, the powers that be will point to him and say "See? It messes you up! JUST SAY NO."
posted by nightchrome at 1:59 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by nightchrome at 1:59 AM on April 4, 2006
Change the text to "How not to do Ecstasy", but I'm sure most of it was MDMA.
Exactly, sorry. Actually, it did make me question how much of it was actually MDMA and how much per dodgy tablet, and exactly what else he might have been eating, like, say, meth or other stimulants.
Everything I've read suggests if it was 25, 50, or 150mg of MDMA per tablet he probably would have been dead a long time ago.
posted by loquacious at 2:00 AM on April 4, 2006
Exactly, sorry. Actually, it did make me question how much of it was actually MDMA and how much per dodgy tablet, and exactly what else he might have been eating, like, say, meth or other stimulants.
Everything I've read suggests if it was 25, 50, or 150mg of MDMA per tablet he probably would have been dead a long time ago.
posted by loquacious at 2:00 AM on April 4, 2006
loquacious : "Everything I've read suggests if it was 25, 50, or 150mg of MDMA per tablet he probably would have been dead a long time ago."
You develop tolerance to amphetamines; MDMA is one. One of the "facts" on the Intarweb is that it takes 14-15 pills for overdose. Assuming some truthiness (*groan*) to that, 25 pills for someone habituated seems reasonable, parallel to how heroin addicts take doses of 400-500mg or even upto 2g, opposed to 10-15mg for a new user; a new user would OD on 500mg.
"what else he might have been eating, like, say, meth or other stimulants."
I reckon many of the somatic effects of MDMA are similar to those of stimulant amphetamines; no meth needed.
The thing to take from all of this is that MDMA is not a 'lifestyle drug'. 7-8 times a year, maybe 10, at most, sounds right.
posted by Gyan at 2:23 AM on April 4, 2006
You develop tolerance to amphetamines; MDMA is one. One of the "facts" on the Intarweb is that it takes 14-15 pills for overdose. Assuming some truthiness (*groan*) to that, 25 pills for someone habituated seems reasonable, parallel to how heroin addicts take doses of 400-500mg or even upto 2g, opposed to 10-15mg for a new user; a new user would OD on 500mg.
"what else he might have been eating, like, say, meth or other stimulants."
I reckon many of the somatic effects of MDMA are similar to those of stimulant amphetamines; no meth needed.
The thing to take from all of this is that MDMA is not a 'lifestyle drug'. 7-8 times a year, maybe 10, at most, sounds right.
posted by Gyan at 2:23 AM on April 4, 2006
I bet that guy was really annoying when he started doing it, kinda tolerable when he started having a problem and doing it every day, and completely insufferable after that
just a hunch
posted by elr at 2:51 AM on April 4, 2006
just a hunch
posted by elr at 2:51 AM on April 4, 2006
Why didn't the article just refer to him as "Mr. E"? They missed their opportunity.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:44 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:44 AM on April 4, 2006
Good thing he wasnt doing aspirin because his liver would be a mess right now.
Or alcohol.
posted by silence at 3:48 AM on April 4, 2006
Or alcohol.
posted by silence at 3:48 AM on April 4, 2006
It sounds like he was on a mission to get fucked up for most of his life. Mission accomplished.
Solvent use is also associated with memory loss, as well as many of his other symptoms.
It certainly seems difficult to make any specific claims about the effects of any single drug given Mr E's catholic taste.
posted by asok at 4:02 AM on April 4, 2006
Solvent use is also associated with memory loss, as well as many of his other symptoms.
It certainly seems difficult to make any specific claims about the effects of any single drug given Mr E's catholic taste.
posted by asok at 4:02 AM on April 4, 2006
Good thing he wasnt doing aspirin because his liver would be a mess right now.
Or alcohol.
On 25 hamburgers a day, he wouldn't have lasted a year.
posted by bru at 4:16 AM on April 4, 2006
Or alcohol.
On 25 hamburgers a day, he wouldn't have lasted a year.
posted by bru at 4:16 AM on April 4, 2006
Well at least he wasn't using something legal. Just imagine the headlines!
The strange case of the man who took 40,000 cigarettes in nine years
· Usage increased to 25 cigarettes a day at peak
· Yellow teeth and fingers may be lasting
posted by furtive at 4:37 AM on April 4, 2006
The strange case of the man who took 40,000 cigarettes in nine years
· Usage increased to 25 cigarettes a day at peak
· Yellow teeth and fingers may be lasting
posted by furtive at 4:37 AM on April 4, 2006
a British man estimated to have taken around 40,000 pills of MDMA, the active ingredient in ecstasy
Um. I'm pretty sure he didn't take 40,000 pills of pure MDMA, so in fact it was 40,000 doses of, you know, ecstasy that he took. Ecstasy being MDMA mixed with, at least, some random filler (any white powder, really) plus typically some speed, and possibly any number of other things. In fact if he was taking 25 pills a day, it was pretty much bound to be cheap skanky product laced with who knows what - maybe an addictive component contributed towards his compulsive use.
Not that I think taking 25 doses a day of purest, sparkling MDMA crystals would be very good for you either.
posted by Drexen at 4:46 AM on April 4, 2006
Um. I'm pretty sure he didn't take 40,000 pills of pure MDMA, so in fact it was 40,000 doses of, you know, ecstasy that he took. Ecstasy being MDMA mixed with, at least, some random filler (any white powder, really) plus typically some speed, and possibly any number of other things. In fact if he was taking 25 pills a day, it was pretty much bound to be cheap skanky product laced with who knows what - maybe an addictive component contributed towards his compulsive use.
Not that I think taking 25 doses a day of purest, sparkling MDMA crystals would be very good for you either.
posted by Drexen at 4:46 AM on April 4, 2006
Twenty-five pills a day?
Twenty-five of anything for years wouldn't be good for you, 25 beers, 25 joints, 25 Hershey bars...
The fact that this guy can still function, at all, indicates that Ecstasy in moderation probably isn't all that bad for you.
posted by cedar at 5:15 AM on April 4, 2006
Twenty-five of anything for years wouldn't be good for you, 25 beers, 25 joints, 25 Hershey bars...
The fact that this guy can still function, at all, indicates that Ecstasy in moderation probably isn't all that bad for you.
posted by cedar at 5:15 AM on April 4, 2006
My question is that if he can't remember what's in his breadbasket this minute, how likely is it that he remembers that it was in his breadbasket seven years ago. Or more pointedly, 40,000 hits is a gross, rather than precise, estimate.
And to continue the trope, if he was drinking 25 Starbucks venti mochas a day, he'd be dead in a month.
posted by mrmojoflying at 5:24 AM on April 4, 2006
And to continue the trope, if he was drinking 25 Starbucks venti mochas a day, he'd be dead in a month.
posted by mrmojoflying at 5:24 AM on April 4, 2006
Strangely, the article's written by David McCandless of much-missed early-90s multi-format 16-bit games mag Zero.
posted by tapeguy at 5:29 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by tapeguy at 5:29 AM on April 4, 2006
Uh, I heard that if you take even one pill, your heart will explode and your brain will melt. So how did this guy make it? It couldn't be that the anti-drug propaganda is a bunch of bullshit, could it?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 5:41 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by Optimus Chyme at 5:41 AM on April 4, 2006
dydecker: I can only give so many backrubs and listen to so much gabber before I snap
posted by elr at 6:00 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by elr at 6:00 AM on April 4, 2006
I just got here, but it's true- the first thing I thought was that if it had been 25 tylenol/day he was taking, he'd be dead inside a month.
posted by exlotuseater at 6:03 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by exlotuseater at 6:03 AM on April 4, 2006
And just imagine if he'd been eating 25 live ferrets a day! Huh? Huh?
posted by Drexen at 6:08 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by Drexen at 6:08 AM on April 4, 2006
mrmojoflying: It says his long term memory was unaffected.
Also if he was doing 25 a day chances are good that he was getting decent stuff either by being rich enough to buy good stuff or by dealing whereby he'd have access to the better stuff (and yes I said stuff too much)
posted by zeoslap at 6:12 AM on April 4, 2006
Also if he was doing 25 a day chances are good that he was getting decent stuff either by being rich enough to buy good stuff or by dealing whereby he'd have access to the better stuff (and yes I said stuff too much)
posted by zeoslap at 6:12 AM on April 4, 2006
Why is it more likely that he was doing good stuff just because he was doing so much of it? I'm just curious about your reasoning.
posted by OmieWise at 6:17 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by OmieWise at 6:17 AM on April 4, 2006
My darker side finds this quite amusing. You could base compelling TV and Radio formats on this cat - Ask him to complete various missions that the ultimate caner of all time would find deeply trying - like being sent into a shop with instructions to buy 15 things but no list. See what he comes out with and if its some kind of subconcious consumer thing. Different 'mission' every week. Or a superhero: Hardcore Man. Fights crime with a glowstick, a whistle and a remarkable, unchanging leer...
The facial muscle damage from all that gurning must also be quite profound. Must look like Cherie Blair by now.
posted by The Salaryman at 6:24 AM on April 4, 2006
The facial muscle damage from all that gurning must also be quite profound. Must look like Cherie Blair by now.
posted by The Salaryman at 6:24 AM on April 4, 2006
I have an, um, 'friend', who rolled once or twice a weekend for about a year and was a complete mental case by the end of it. I can't even imagine doing it daily for that period of time would have done...
posted by empath at 6:27 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by empath at 6:27 AM on April 4, 2006
Why is it more likely that he was doing good stuff just because he was doing so much of it? I'm just curious about your reasoning.
Because he would probably have a rock solid hookup from Amsterdam (or something) to be able to get 25 a day; The crappy stuff comes from hookups who are not so rock solid. Or so I've heard...
posted by dobie at 6:27 AM on April 4, 2006
Because he would probably have a rock solid hookup from Amsterdam (or something) to be able to get 25 a day; The crappy stuff comes from hookups who are not so rock solid. Or so I've heard...
posted by dobie at 6:27 AM on April 4, 2006
Good thing he wasn't doing 25 push-ups a day or he'd be able to kick all of our asses.
posted by cloeburner at 6:29 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by cloeburner at 6:29 AM on April 4, 2006
OmieWise: My assumption would be that he was selling it. And he couldn't have been selling enough to eat 25 pills daily unless they were high quality. People don't actually LIKE adulterated pills and won't continue to buy them. If you check ecstasydata.org, where they do actual chemical testing of pills, you'll find that a significant percentage of them are 100% MDMA (at least in terms of active ingredients). Adding more drugs to MDMA does NOT improve the experience one bit.
Um, so I've heard.
posted by empath at 6:29 AM on April 4, 2006
Um, so I've heard.
posted by empath at 6:29 AM on April 4, 2006
From what I understand, there is a chemical in MDMA that can make a person actually enjoy listening to house music.
posted by mullingitover at 6:39 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by mullingitover at 6:39 AM on April 4, 2006
Ecstasy in moderation probably isn't all that bad for you.
Yeah, *alone*, maybe. But I wouldn't do it in combination with (or even a few days before) certain other things.
Well, not again anyway. Doing so in March of 2001 sent me into a psychotic episode, landed me in the hospital, and completely destroyed my life. I'm not saying this would happen to you, just that.... well, it's a non-zero possibility to be a major contributing factor to seriously fucking yourself up, especially if you have an underlying, undiagnosed, serious mental illness to add to it like I did.
Watch out for yourselves and your friends when you go playing with chemicals, especially if they seem to be completely batshit insane afterwards. It can happen. (In fact I went so insane that I nearly converted to Catholicism! No lie!).
But the worst part of it all, even compared to the horrifying hallucinations, knowing I was about to die (about 7 different times), the scabies I caught from a mefite, the $5000 hospital bill my HMO refused to cover, the lost job whose income I have since been able to approach approximately a third of, the second hospitalization (*shudder*), the getting used to my life as a Seriously Mentally Ill Person Who Needs Multiple Meds To Even Function, For The Rest Of Her Life, all that shit, the one thing that chews my heart into hamburger every goddamn day is this: my daughter doesn't live with me anymore. A little girl doesn't get to be with her mommy as most other kids do for 16 years of her growing up because of one stupid night of chemical fun.
So yeah, drugs are cool and all, and it's possible to do massive quantities for decades with hardly any ill effects, or ill effects confined only to the ingestor. But then sometimes the 123213232121-sided dice roll snake eyes and you get to shatter someone else's life, too.
I'm not going to change anyone's mind. I guess I just don't want someone else to have the same kind of regret I do. I try to be realistic - I wouldn't have listened if someone had tried to tell me just what I was risking (everything). But... oh well.
Good luck. Don't end up like me.
posted by beth at 6:48 AM on April 4, 2006 [1 favorite]
Yeah, *alone*, maybe. But I wouldn't do it in combination with (or even a few days before) certain other things.
Well, not again anyway. Doing so in March of 2001 sent me into a psychotic episode, landed me in the hospital, and completely destroyed my life. I'm not saying this would happen to you, just that.... well, it's a non-zero possibility to be a major contributing factor to seriously fucking yourself up, especially if you have an underlying, undiagnosed, serious mental illness to add to it like I did.
Watch out for yourselves and your friends when you go playing with chemicals, especially if they seem to be completely batshit insane afterwards. It can happen. (In fact I went so insane that I nearly converted to Catholicism! No lie!).
But the worst part of it all, even compared to the horrifying hallucinations, knowing I was about to die (about 7 different times), the scabies I caught from a mefite, the $5000 hospital bill my HMO refused to cover, the lost job whose income I have since been able to approach approximately a third of, the second hospitalization (*shudder*), the getting used to my life as a Seriously Mentally Ill Person Who Needs Multiple Meds To Even Function, For The Rest Of Her Life, all that shit, the one thing that chews my heart into hamburger every goddamn day is this: my daughter doesn't live with me anymore. A little girl doesn't get to be with her mommy as most other kids do for 16 years of her growing up because of one stupid night of chemical fun.
So yeah, drugs are cool and all, and it's possible to do massive quantities for decades with hardly any ill effects, or ill effects confined only to the ingestor. But then sometimes the 123213232121-sided dice roll snake eyes and you get to shatter someone else's life, too.
I'm not going to change anyone's mind. I guess I just don't want someone else to have the same kind of regret I do. I try to be realistic - I wouldn't have listened if someone had tried to tell me just what I was risking (everything). But... oh well.
Good luck. Don't end up like me.
posted by beth at 6:48 AM on April 4, 2006 [1 favorite]
"[I]f he was drinking 25 Starbucks venti mochas a day, he'd be dead in a month."
What's the ingredient in venti mochas that does that and at what dosage? I drank about 25 cups of regular coffee a day for several years and got no irreversible negative effects, nor did I suffer much during that period besides increased anxiety, headaches from withdrawal and increased need to piss more often.
posted by davy at 6:48 AM on April 4, 2006
What's the ingredient in venti mochas that does that and at what dosage? I drank about 25 cups of regular coffee a day for several years and got no irreversible negative effects, nor did I suffer much during that period besides increased anxiety, headaches from withdrawal and increased need to piss more often.
posted by davy at 6:48 AM on April 4, 2006
Yeah, *alone*, maybe. But I wouldn't do it in combination with (or even a few days before) certain other things.
This is the real problem behind the Governments stance on drugs. As has been mentioned in this thread already, you have no idea what you are getting. It's rare you will be ingesting mdma alone. Ever. So even in moderation and *alone* you are probably taking combinations of speed, hallucenogens and mdma (along with a whole load of shite that probably isn't good for you).
I have no problem with people taking 25 pills a day - if they are having a ball and not effecting anyone else then more power to them.
But let's stop kidding ourselves. everytime you pop a pill you are playing Russian roulette. Unless you made it yourself.
posted by twistedonion at 7:04 AM on April 4, 2006
This is the real problem behind the Governments stance on drugs. As has been mentioned in this thread already, you have no idea what you are getting. It's rare you will be ingesting mdma alone. Ever. So even in moderation and *alone* you are probably taking combinations of speed, hallucenogens and mdma (along with a whole load of shite that probably isn't good for you).
I have no problem with people taking 25 pills a day - if they are having a ball and not effecting anyone else then more power to them.
But let's stop kidding ourselves. everytime you pop a pill you are playing Russian roulette. Unless you made it yourself.
posted by twistedonion at 7:04 AM on April 4, 2006
I can't imagine how many impurities in the pills this guy also ingested over that period that might or might not contribute to things like, uh, permanent memory and concentration problems.
He must have been a dealer, I would imagine. Although it's true we don't know what was in the pills. If it was adulterated with Meth or heroin he would probably be dead.
posted by delmoi at 7:08 AM on April 4, 2006
He must have been a dealer, I would imagine. Although it's true we don't know what was in the pills. If it was adulterated with Meth or heroin he would probably be dead.
posted by delmoi at 7:08 AM on April 4, 2006
Good thing he wasn't doing 25 push-ups a day or he'd be able to kick all of our asses.
LOL.
This is the real problem behind the Governments stance on drugs. As has been mentioned in this thread already, you have no idea what you are getting.
That's true. It's also a problem with the drugs "Education" that we get. They just tell us "drugs are bad, mkay" with no interest in the truth at all. So people's perceptions of narcotics and what they do to you are totally warped. It's almost entirely based on personal experience and urban legends. Kids learn after their first joint that everything they learned in school about drugs is BS, so where does that leave them? Nowhere. All the information available is pretty biased; either pro (like erowid) or con (like the government).
It's really quite stupid.
posted by delmoi at 7:18 AM on April 4, 2006
LOL.
This is the real problem behind the Governments stance on drugs. As has been mentioned in this thread already, you have no idea what you are getting.
That's true. It's also a problem with the drugs "Education" that we get. They just tell us "drugs are bad, mkay" with no interest in the truth at all. So people's perceptions of narcotics and what they do to you are totally warped. It's almost entirely based on personal experience and urban legends. Kids learn after their first joint that everything they learned in school about drugs is BS, so where does that leave them? Nowhere. All the information available is pretty biased; either pro (like erowid) or con (like the government).
It's really quite stupid.
posted by delmoi at 7:18 AM on April 4, 2006
Geez, just don't do THAT MUCH and it's a pleasant experience. I hope no one thinks MDMA is a bad thing cause of his reactions (or urban myths and the like). Like said above, anything at that level is going to hurt you. Heck, even too much water kills. Know your limits, act maturely, and everything will be fine!
posted by Dantien at 7:25 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by Dantien at 7:25 AM on April 4, 2006
Everytime you pop a pill smoke a cigarette / drink a cocktail / eat a sandwich you are playing Russian roulette. Unless you made it yourself.
Life has risks, I suppose, and some behaviors are riskier than others. If a government is going to try to protect a population from its own recreation, then wouldn't the greater good be served by expending effort to ensure, as best as it can, the safety of the activities through oversight and regulation, instead of tossing out a blanket ban which will invariably lead to the rise of an unregulated, untaxable black market?
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:28 AM on April 4, 2006
Life has risks, I suppose, and some behaviors are riskier than others. If a government is going to try to protect a population from its own recreation, then wouldn't the greater good be served by expending effort to ensure, as best as it can, the safety of the activities through oversight and regulation, instead of tossing out a blanket ban which will invariably lead to the rise of an unregulated, untaxable black market?
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:28 AM on April 4, 2006
Mr. A? Jeez, any scientist with a sense of humor would have called him Mr. X.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:42 AM on April 4, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Pollomacho at 7:42 AM on April 4, 2006 [1 favorite]
Everytime you pop a pill smoke a cigarette / drink a cocktail / eat a sandwich you are playing Russian roulette. Unless you made it yourself.
That is far too simplistic and you know it. The first time you try anything for the first time is a bit dangerous I suppose (could be allergic). After that first cigarette though, you should know that the next one won't kill you.
Not so with illegal drugs though (thanks to our draconian drug laws) as each pill is going to be made up differently.
posted by twistedonion at 7:43 AM on April 4, 2006
That is far too simplistic and you know it. The first time you try anything for the first time is a bit dangerous I suppose (could be allergic). After that first cigarette though, you should know that the next one won't kill you.
Not so with illegal drugs though (thanks to our draconian drug laws) as each pill is going to be made up differently.
posted by twistedonion at 7:43 AM on April 4, 2006
mdma is dirt cheap in europe...that's why 2ci and other phenethylamine and tryptomines are becomming much more popular over there, there're more money to be made in "new" drugs, last a i read/heard...a quid or two for a pill...where over here average user will still pay 15-30$
posted by killyb at 7:46 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by killyb at 7:46 AM on April 4, 2006
That is far too simplistic and you know it.
Um, yeah. That was kind of my point. Unless, of course, you're paranoid and suspect that anything you're given could be, for example, poisoned. Look, I think we're already on the same page, here.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:59 AM on April 4, 2006
Um, yeah. That was kind of my point. Unless, of course, you're paranoid and suspect that anything you're given could be, for example, poisoned. Look, I think we're already on the same page, here.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:59 AM on April 4, 2006
Um, yeah. That was kind of my point. Unless, of course, you're paranoid and suspect that anything you're given could be, for example, poisoned.
That's why I don't take mdma anymore ;-)
(seriously, I got to a stage where I was afraid to open doors... afraid of what was on the inside!)
mdma is dirt cheap in europe...
And the quality is crap. It reached a point for me where the downs were so much worse than the highs (of course, being at the western edge of Europe doesn't help. All the good stuff is gone by the time it gets to us).
posted by twistedonion at 8:05 AM on April 4, 2006
That's why I don't take mdma anymore ;-)
(seriously, I got to a stage where I was afraid to open doors... afraid of what was on the inside!)
mdma is dirt cheap in europe...
And the quality is crap. It reached a point for me where the downs were so much worse than the highs (of course, being at the western edge of Europe doesn't help. All the good stuff is gone by the time it gets to us).
posted by twistedonion at 8:05 AM on April 4, 2006
Sorry to hear about that, beth. I would suggest that it is as much society's reaction to your condition and the way it is dealt with as anything to do with your particular state of mind that was to blame.
Good luck with all your endevours.
posted by asok at 8:10 AM on April 4, 2006
Good luck with all your endevours.
posted by asok at 8:10 AM on April 4, 2006
"Can you feel my love?
It's inside you.
Take me home, I'm your synthetic lover
And your mind will be ravin'.
I also contain 16 essential vitamins and riboflavin."
Cracklin' Oat Flakes. Pounding at your heart with the fist of God.
Warning: Cracklin' Oat Flakes may cause damage to your spinal fluid.
posted by phirleh at 8:15 AM on April 4, 2006
It's inside you.
Take me home, I'm your synthetic lover
And your mind will be ravin'.
I also contain 16 essential vitamins and riboflavin."
Cracklin' Oat Flakes. Pounding at your heart with the fist of God.
Warning: Cracklin' Oat Flakes may cause damage to your spinal fluid.
posted by phirleh at 8:15 AM on April 4, 2006
Mefi hasn't been very good to beth. :(
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:22 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:22 AM on April 4, 2006
Beth -
I was just trolling through, and I wanted to say thanks for sharing your story, and I'm really sorry.
I can't imagine.
posted by kbanas at 8:30 AM on April 4, 2006
I was just trolling through, and I wanted to say thanks for sharing your story, and I'm really sorry.
I can't imagine.
posted by kbanas at 8:30 AM on April 4, 2006
Wait, you mean this isn't about Jerry Lewis and the Muscular Dystrophy Mothers of America?
If you do most anything to the extreme excess then you're running a much higher risk of permanent damage. But its nice to have this example as a good cautionary tale.
Sucks for him though.
posted by fenriq at 8:39 AM on April 4, 2006
If you do most anything to the extreme excess then you're running a much higher risk of permanent damage. But its nice to have this example as a good cautionary tale.
Sucks for him though.
posted by fenriq at 8:39 AM on April 4, 2006
he still suffers from severe physical and mental health side-effects, including extreme memory problems, paranoia, hallucinations and depression.
Feh. He's just getting old.
He also suffers from painful muscle rigidity around his neck and jaw which often prevents him from opening his mouth.
And that just means he's been married for a little while.
I think it's safe to assume that these symptoms have nothing to do with his drug abuse.
posted by crunchland at 8:44 AM on April 4, 2006
Feh. He's just getting old.
He also suffers from painful muscle rigidity around his neck and jaw which often prevents him from opening his mouth.
And that just means he's been married for a little while.
I think it's safe to assume that these symptoms have nothing to do with his drug abuse.
posted by crunchland at 8:44 AM on April 4, 2006
...everytime you pop a pill you are playing Russian roulette...
... everytime you pop a pill smoke a cigarette / drink a cocktail / eat a sandwich you are playing Russian roulette...
Just for you guys...
pill popping Russian Roulette
posted by stumcg at 8:45 AM on April 4, 2006
... everytime you pop a pill smoke a cigarette / drink a cocktail / eat a sandwich you are playing Russian roulette...
Just for you guys...
pill popping Russian Roulette
posted by stumcg at 8:45 AM on April 4, 2006
lol, I used to love limmy.com - what happened, he seems to have trned it into a crap blog
posted by twistedonion at 8:48 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by twistedonion at 8:48 AM on April 4, 2006
> The doctors discovered that the man was suffering from severe short-term memory problems of a type usually only seen in lifetime alcoholics.
Oh my. You mean he was showing symptoms similar to taking a legal drug?? How horrible.
posted by eperker at 8:53 AM on April 4, 2006
Oh my. You mean he was showing symptoms similar to taking a legal drug?? How horrible.
posted by eperker at 8:53 AM on April 4, 2006
Thanks Beth. I think there are some folks that would listen. It’s worth the experiance. You’re never going to help everyone. But it’s rewarding when you do. And there is no substitute for having been there yourself.
"Good thing he wasn't doing 25 push-ups a day or he'd be able to kick all of our asses." - posted by cloeburner
25 Push Ups a day?
![](http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:DstdY62kllNrXM:www.icecreamusa.com/products/images/large/77567-00312_large.jpg")
Man, that’d kill me.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:12 AM on April 4, 2006
"Good thing he wasn't doing 25 push-ups a day or he'd be able to kick all of our asses." - posted by cloeburner
25 Push Ups a day?
Man, that’d kill me.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:12 AM on April 4, 2006
He also suffers from painful muscle rigidity around his neck and jaw which often prevents him from opening his mouth.
That poor bastard. How does he get the pacifier in his mouth?
posted by Gamblor at 9:20 AM on April 4, 2006
That poor bastard. How does he get the pacifier in his mouth?
posted by Gamblor at 9:20 AM on April 4, 2006
a quid or two for a pill
Yeah, two quid each retail here in Liverpool. You want more than a couple and its easy to find them for a pound apiece.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:35 AM on April 4, 2006
Yeah, two quid each retail here in Liverpool. You want more than a couple and its easy to find them for a pound apiece.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:35 AM on April 4, 2006
And the quality is crap. It reached a point for me where the downs were so much worse than the highs (of course, being at the western edge of Europe doesn't help.
That's probably less to do with the quality, and more to do with the very limited nature of the empathogenic qualities of the drug.
Shulgin (the guy who rediscovered MDMA) argues that the 'ecstasy-like' qualities of MDMA actually only lasts for about ten doses or so, and after that, you get the experience that you describe -- even when the drug is genuine MDMA.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:40 AM on April 4, 2006
That's probably less to do with the quality, and more to do with the very limited nature of the empathogenic qualities of the drug.
Shulgin (the guy who rediscovered MDMA) argues that the 'ecstasy-like' qualities of MDMA actually only lasts for about ten doses or so, and after that, you get the experience that you describe -- even when the drug is genuine MDMA.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:40 AM on April 4, 2006
Like said above, anything at that level is going to hurt you. Heck, even too much water kills.
True story: in my grade 11 psych class they took us on a field trip to Riverview see the crazy people in the institution. There was a wing dedicated to "water junkies" (I forget the real name of the condition)... If you drink enough, like really a lot of water, your cell walls burst and the effect is similar to being drunk.
You should have seen the line at the water fountain, I kid you not.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:50 AM on April 4, 2006
True story: in my grade 11 psych class they took us on a field trip to Riverview see the crazy people in the institution. There was a wing dedicated to "water junkies" (I forget the real name of the condition)... If you drink enough, like really a lot of water, your cell walls burst and the effect is similar to being drunk.
You should have seen the line at the water fountain, I kid you not.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:50 AM on April 4, 2006
Peter McDermott: Hrm, I'd say it's a lot more than 10 doses. And if you wait a long time between doses (at least 9 months or so) it gets better again.
posted by empath at 9:59 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by empath at 9:59 AM on April 4, 2006
Breaking news: Man who takes 25 aspirin tablets a day for years complains of stomach pains. Headline: Child who eats 20 bottles of Flintstones vitamins rushed to hospital! Fresh off the AP wires: winner of pie-eating contest stricken with diarrhea after consuming 50 pecan pies.
It's a dangerous world we're living in, kids. Don't leave home without a white-knuckle sense of terror.
posted by digaman at 10:13 AM on April 4, 2006
It's a dangerous world we're living in, kids. Don't leave home without a white-knuckle sense of terror.
posted by digaman at 10:13 AM on April 4, 2006
tapeguy, McCandless (who I remember mainly from PC Zone) turns up all over the place these days. I remember finding it a bit weird that he is now, apparently an orthorexic.
posted by teleskiving at 10:34 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by teleskiving at 10:34 AM on April 4, 2006
25 pills a day seems excessive (well, obviously). My, ah, sources always told me that imbibing for multiple nights at once was a fool's game, something about needing to rebuild serotonin. Serial use, according to these brave experimenters, tended to drastically reduce potency. I'm no neurobiologist, but doesn't MDMA act as a reuptake inhibitor?
/I did not give scabies to beth
posted by whir at 10:40 AM on April 4, 2006
/I did not give scabies to beth
posted by whir at 10:40 AM on April 4, 2006
davy:
the LD50 for Starbucks regular coffee for a 180lb person is:
24.57 (grande size) cups.
posted by bashos_frog at 10:48 AM on April 4, 2006
the LD50 for Starbucks regular coffee for a 180lb person is:
24.57 (grande size) cups.
posted by bashos_frog at 10:48 AM on April 4, 2006
I suspect that the list of items that you could survive eating 40,000 of in nine years is pretty short.
Tylenol? Buy yourself a coffin.
25 Twinkies a day? See you in the ICU.
McDonald's hamburgers? Fuhgeddaboutit!
posted by digaman at 10:54 AM on April 4, 2006
Tylenol? Buy yourself a coffin.
25 Twinkies a day? See you in the ICU.
McDonald's hamburgers? Fuhgeddaboutit!
posted by digaman at 10:54 AM on April 4, 2006
As far as the whole Drugs are evil/bad/okay/awesome debate is concerned, I think the real conclusion one should draw is that everyone responds to every drug differently, and that doing drugs responsibly and enjoyably involves finding out how your body in particular deals with them.
For example, in my case:
Alcohol: Makes me sleepy, and I'm prone to vomiting before I ever get really drunk. At the same time, I never get hangovers.
Coffee: Does nothing but make me go to the bathroom.
Marijuana: Crazy stimulant. I can't sleep, and I tend to get paranoid. I can, however, rock my math assignments with a fat joint in hand.
Mushrooms: I love these. I always feel the need to completely reavaluate my life while on mushrooms. Alone or in a group, always a good time. The only real side effect is that I get horribly, horribly, cold, and I must overwhelm myself with blankets lest I freeze to death.
Ecstacy: I feel like a tool when I'm so rediculously happy, but it's still incredibly fun. I've taken it several times, and have yet to feel particularly depressed. Main side effect is that my lips chap up to my forehead the next day.
Anyway, I could go on, but the point is, try to do a bit of reserach on a drug before you try it. When you feel comfortable (many drugs are best done with someone else who has done them), try the drug once, and if it suits you, try it again.
posted by Alex404 at 10:54 AM on April 4, 2006
For example, in my case:
Alcohol: Makes me sleepy, and I'm prone to vomiting before I ever get really drunk. At the same time, I never get hangovers.
Coffee: Does nothing but make me go to the bathroom.
Marijuana: Crazy stimulant. I can't sleep, and I tend to get paranoid. I can, however, rock my math assignments with a fat joint in hand.
Mushrooms: I love these. I always feel the need to completely reavaluate my life while on mushrooms. Alone or in a group, always a good time. The only real side effect is that I get horribly, horribly, cold, and I must overwhelm myself with blankets lest I freeze to death.
Ecstacy: I feel like a tool when I'm so rediculously happy, but it's still incredibly fun. I've taken it several times, and have yet to feel particularly depressed. Main side effect is that my lips chap up to my forehead the next day.
Anyway, I could go on, but the point is, try to do a bit of reserach on a drug before you try it. When you feel comfortable (many drugs are best done with someone else who has done them), try the drug once, and if it suits you, try it again.
posted by Alex404 at 10:54 AM on April 4, 2006
Oh, and I forgot to mention: I've been lucky with drugs - but I also know people who haven't been.
I'm terribly sorry to hear what happened to you, beth. Drugs screw most people up a little, but just like you say, there is always that small chance that you'll end up as that raver kid seizuring on the floor, or that dude who did coke for the first time, only to suffer an aneurism and die.
I hope things with your daughter are better then you describe. Hopefully, it could have been worse.
posted by Alex404 at 11:05 AM on April 4, 2006
I'm terribly sorry to hear what happened to you, beth. Drugs screw most people up a little, but just like you say, there is always that small chance that you'll end up as that raver kid seizuring on the floor, or that dude who did coke for the first time, only to suffer an aneurism and die.
I hope things with your daughter are better then you describe. Hopefully, it could have been worse.
posted by Alex404 at 11:05 AM on April 4, 2006
mdma is dirt cheap in europe...
And the quality is crap.
No, pills are dirt cheap in Europe and the quality is extrememly variable, with the contents liable to include pretty much anything that will produce an MDMA-like effect. In fact, they're so cheap that it's now getting difficult to even buy pills at all in some places - dealers have switched to selling high quality MDMA powder by the gram, because selling pills at a quid a go is just not worth the risks (it's a class A drug in the UK, with pretty heavy penalties for possession with intent to supply).
That said, if this bloke gave up seven years ago, he will have been paying a fair amount for his pills, and they will have been of a higher quality, so he must've been dealing/involved in other crime to pay for his habit. (When I first did ecstacy, in 1990, pills were £10 or more if you were buying small quantities, and absolutely, wonderfully chock full of MDMA.)
If it was adulterated with Meth or heroin he would probably be dead.
Yeah, that happens a lot, because it's really good business sense for dealers to add hard to obtain, more expensive (nowadays, in the UK) drugs to easy to obtain cheap drugs.
And sorry to hear about your story, beth - I've known a fair few folk that have suffered similarly, and don't know anyone who has used drugs to excess without suffering severe consequences in terms of mental health, mostly temporararily, thank goodness. As a result,as a former heavy drug user, I'm firmly in the 'Drugs are bad (if you are doing lots and lots)' camp. (I think this is a pretty common view - anyone who is firmly pro-caning drugs is/was either a lightweight or hasn't yet noticed how much they've wrecked their heads.)
posted by jack_mo at 12:26 PM on April 4, 2006
And the quality is crap.
No, pills are dirt cheap in Europe and the quality is extrememly variable, with the contents liable to include pretty much anything that will produce an MDMA-like effect. In fact, they're so cheap that it's now getting difficult to even buy pills at all in some places - dealers have switched to selling high quality MDMA powder by the gram, because selling pills at a quid a go is just not worth the risks (it's a class A drug in the UK, with pretty heavy penalties for possession with intent to supply).
That said, if this bloke gave up seven years ago, he will have been paying a fair amount for his pills, and they will have been of a higher quality, so he must've been dealing/involved in other crime to pay for his habit. (When I first did ecstacy, in 1990, pills were £10 or more if you were buying small quantities, and absolutely, wonderfully chock full of MDMA.)
If it was adulterated with Meth or heroin he would probably be dead.
Yeah, that happens a lot, because it's really good business sense for dealers to add hard to obtain, more expensive (nowadays, in the UK) drugs to easy to obtain cheap drugs.
And sorry to hear about your story, beth - I've known a fair few folk that have suffered similarly, and don't know anyone who has used drugs to excess without suffering severe consequences in terms of mental health, mostly temporararily, thank goodness. As a result,as a former heavy drug user, I'm firmly in the 'Drugs are bad (if you are doing lots and lots)' camp. (I think this is a pretty common view - anyone who is firmly pro-caning drugs is/was either a lightweight or hasn't yet noticed how much they've wrecked their heads.)
posted by jack_mo at 12:26 PM on April 4, 2006
It's not his fault. He's an ecstatic.
Why didn't the article just refer to him as "Mr. E"?
Dunno. It's a mystery.
posted by dhartung at 1:35 PM on April 4, 2006
Why didn't the article just refer to him as "Mr. E"?
Dunno. It's a mystery.
posted by dhartung at 1:35 PM on April 4, 2006
Plenty of (dumb) pill dealers do their own merchandise everyday, though 25 for such a long period is obviously on the slightly extreme end... I know a guy who did several hundred decent pills over a weekend - extreme use can't really be that rare judging from my relatively small sample size.
It's funny, I planned to do some googling tonight for articles on the gabber scene and extreme ecstasy use. I remember reading an article in a dance mag (maybe MixMag or something) years ago. They had their own taxonomy of massive mdma usage, kind of fascinated me at the time. Any pointers?
posted by Onanist at 2:02 PM on April 4, 2006
It's funny, I planned to do some googling tonight for articles on the gabber scene and extreme ecstasy use. I remember reading an article in a dance mag (maybe MixMag or something) years ago. They had their own taxonomy of massive mdma usage, kind of fascinated me at the time. Any pointers?
posted by Onanist at 2:02 PM on April 4, 2006
///"I told you I was hardcore"
posted by Justin Case at 2:39 PM on April 4, 2006
posted by Justin Case at 2:39 PM on April 4, 2006
That's right kids; stay away from MDMA. Smoke crack, it's much safer.
posted by nlindstrom at 3:57 PM on April 4, 2006
posted by nlindstrom at 3:57 PM on April 4, 2006
Lordy. If you do 25 tabs of anything a day for 9 years you're going to be pretty messed up.
posted by Decani at 4:38 PM on April 4, 2006
posted by Decani at 4:38 PM on April 4, 2006
My, ah, sources always told me that imbibing for multiple nights at once was a fool's game, something about needing to rebuild serotonin
My understanding has also been that long-term high usage will (permanently?) damage the brain's ability to produce (or uptake?) serotonin, which is a Very Bad Thing for one's mental well-being.
Then again I've been so many years out of the chemical thing, there may have been newer research on the effects of which I am unaware.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:40 PM on April 4, 2006
My understanding has also been that long-term high usage will (permanently?) damage the brain's ability to produce (or uptake?) serotonin, which is a Very Bad Thing for one's mental well-being.
Then again I've been so many years out of the chemical thing, there may have been newer research on the effects of which I am unaware.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:40 PM on April 4, 2006
The fact that this guy can still function, at all, indicates that Ecstasy in moderation probably isn't all that bad for you.
The fact that he was british indicates that there probably wasn't much meth in the pills. American "ecstacy" is something to stay away from.
posted by Tlogmer at 9:25 PM on April 4, 2006
The fact that he was british indicates that there probably wasn't much meth in the pills. American "ecstacy" is something to stay away from.
posted by Tlogmer at 9:25 PM on April 4, 2006
the scabies I caught from a mefite
Funniest throwaway line in an otherwise tragic story, ever.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 4:16 AM on April 5, 2006
Funniest throwaway line in an otherwise tragic story, ever.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 4:16 AM on April 5, 2006
stupidsexyFlanders writes "Funniest throwaway line in an otherwise tragic story, ever"
For a second I thought I was trapped in a country and western song.
posted by Mitheral at 7:51 AM on April 5, 2006
For a second I thought I was trapped in a country and western song.
posted by Mitheral at 7:51 AM on April 5, 2006
For 5 bucks, I'll tell you who the scabies giving mefite is.
posted by crunchland at 9:19 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by crunchland at 9:19 AM on April 5, 2006
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posted by freetshirt at 12:50 AM on April 4, 2006