Comments on: U-G-L-Y you ain't got no alibi http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi/ Comments on MetaFilter post U-G-L-Y you ain't got no alibi Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:55:51 -0800 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:55:51 -0800 en-us http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss 60 U-G-L-Y you ain't got no alibi http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi <a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0706061uglybride1.html">The Case of the Ugly Bride</a>. They said she would be of fair complexion and able to speak English, but she wasn't - so the groom's family is suing the bride's relatives for fraud, deciet, conspiracy, unjust enrichment, violation of the Civil Rights Act, amongst other torrid claims. post:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:46:00 -0800 contessa ugly bride wedding arrangedmarriage batshitinsane hitlerific By: delmoi http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365457 <i>On MARCH 23, 2006, Defendant Hertz Faxed and sent a "Mafia like" letter by Federal Express to Plaintiff, Dr. Pandey that was extreemly malicious, accusatory, threatening, intimidating, coercive and <b>Hitlerite</b></i>. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365457 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:55:51 -0800 delmoi By: contessa http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365462 (delmoi, that was my favorite part. They godwinned themselves!!) comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365462 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:56:59 -0800 contessa By: Kirth Gerson http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365466 Is that like Kryptonite somehow? comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365466 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:58:46 -0800 Kirth Gerson By: orange swan http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365473 A marriage of sorts <i>has</i> taken place &mdash; between the ugliest characteristics of American and Indian cultures. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365473 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:03:21 -0800 orange swan By: oddman http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365476 I don't see why arranged marriages are an ugly characteristic of Indian culture. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365476 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:05:10 -0800 oddman By: Astro Zombie http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365477 I wouldneed to see an image of the woman to make up my mindhow I feel about this. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365477 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:06:03 -0800 Astro Zombie By: flashboy http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365480 I suspect the plaintiff is either a noble and principled fighter for justice, or is under the influence of bhang. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365480 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:08:15 -0800 flashboy By: Red58 http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365481 No one is talking about how attractive or unattractive the potential groom is. Or who has more education. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365481 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:08:47 -0800 Red58 By: 517 http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365485 No pictures!? comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365485 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:10:13 -0800 517 By: orange swan http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365487 Arranged with the consent of both bride and groom, perhaps not. But when it involves "bride prices" and/or forced marriage, it certainly is ugly. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365487 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:10:51 -0800 orange swan By: a3matrix http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365489 <em>..his 37-year-old son</em> Wow, someone needs to tell the old man to mind his own business. At 37 it is hard to imagine my father dictating anything to me ESPECIALLY who I am going to marry. Also, doesn't 37 seem a bit late for an arrange marriage? comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365489 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:11:31 -0800 a3matrix By: boo_radley http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365490 Hitler<em>esque</em>, surely. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365490 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:11:43 -0800 boo_radley By: yhbc http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365499 The case being in Massachusetts, the first thing I looked for was to see what attorney or law firm signed the complaint, and I wasn't surprised to find that the groom's father wrote and signed the complaint himself. There's a reason we have <a href="http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/mrcp11.html">Rule 11 </a> to keep attorneys from filing these suits - it doesn't stop people from doing it themselves, though. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365499 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:16:37 -0800 yhbc By: Optimus Chyme http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365500 Solution: stop having arranged marriages, you fucking barbarians. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365500 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:16:49 -0800 Optimus Chyme By: mr_roboto http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365503 Weird, I would have said <i>Hilterian</i>. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365503 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:17:42 -0800 mr_roboto By: leftcoastbob http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365511 Ugly is as ugly does. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365511 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:22:43 -0800 leftcoastbob By: Astro Zombie http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365513 It does have a certain Hitleritude. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365513 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:23:04 -0800 Astro Zombie By: Astro Zombie http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365514 Or should I say Hirlerity. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365514 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:23:18 -0800 Astro Zombie By: clearlynuts http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365515 Um ... Hitlerity ensues! comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365515 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:23:22 -0800 clearlynuts By: Gamblor http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365526 The amazing thing is that this guy was so concerned with the bride's looks, and yet he never heard of this thing called a camera. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365526 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:27:57 -0800 Gamblor By: joe lisboa http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365535 The case being in Massachusetts, the first thing I looked for was a way to blame this on gay marriage. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365535 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:34:55 -0800 joe lisboa By: beerbajay http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365536 <b>Feedback:</b> Item not as described! Seller unresponsive, would not take a return. I have denied payment. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365536 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:35:44 -0800 beerbajay By: Gator http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365540 Oy. Did y'all make it to the end, where he <i>demands</i> a trial by jury on all counts? I would pay for a transcript of that, in the unlikely event it ever gets to that point. "Did you or did you not, on or about August 22, 2003, protrude your bad Hitlerite teeth at the parents of your handsome and fair-complected fiancé?" comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365540 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:36:54 -0800 Gator By: Gamblor http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365544 <em>they were extremely shocked to find out that Savita was ugly with <strong>dark complexion</strong> and protruded bad teeth and couldn't speak English to carry on a conversation</em> I suppose buck-teeth could be fixed with braces, and you could hire an English tutor, but being dark-skinned is just an unforgivable sin. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365544 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:38:02 -0800 Gamblor By: 1adam12 http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365547 37 year old who's probably been dating someone unacceptable to his parents in secret for years, and now his parents are trying to buy him a wife. I've actually heard this story before, in modified form, from several people that attended my college. As long as mom and dad are calling the shots, I don't care how old you are physically - you're still a kid. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365547 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:40:27 -0800 1adam12 By: Busithoth http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365550 I miss Belchertown. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365550 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:41:45 -0800 Busithoth By: It's Raining Florence Henderson http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365557 Wouldn't this sort of thing be covered by the lemon law? I'm not familiar with Massachusetts statutes, but surely she could be returned for a full refund or traded in for another model? comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365557 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:47:01 -0800 It's Raining Florence Henderson By: orange swan http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365586 <i>Wouldn't this sort of thing be covered by the lemon law?</i> Illicit transactions such prostitution and drug dealing wouldn't be covered under such a law. This would qualify as an illicit transaction. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365586 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:06:09 -0800 orange swan By: graventy http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365588 That's why I always arrange my foreign brides through a corporation with a 30-day money back guarantee. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365588 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:07:14 -0800 graventy By: Kirth Gerson http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365592 Raining, the Lemon Law in MA says that the dealer gets several opportunities to repair the merchandise. only if effective repairs are not made does the buyer get their money back. After that, they have to burn it. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365592 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:08:31 -0800 Kirth Gerson By: yhbc http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365601 The Lemon Law also only applies to <em>dealers </em>in merchandise of the type purchased, not individual sellers. Furthermore, defects covered by the warranty include a defect in the function or usefulness of a component or malfunction or combination thereof; defects that affect only appearance are not covered. Hence, he's out of luck. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365601 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:16:18 -0800 yhbc By: nickyskye http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365604 I feel sad for <a href="http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=147386">Savita</a> in all this. International humiliation. But she's been saved marrying a total jerk and will get away from her creepy relatives. Surprise,<a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hitlerite"> Hitlerite </a>is an actual adjective. The lyrics to <a href="http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/19/messages/485.html">U-G-L-Y You Ain't Got No Alibi</a>. Dr. Vijai Pandey should have<a href="http://www.shaadi.com/matrimonials/india-matrimonial"> tried </a> <a href="http://www.shaadi.com/shaadi_info/matrimonial_success_stories/index.php">Shaadi.com</a>. (Shaadi in Hindi means marriage). Sounds like the guy who tried to marry off his niece had a history of using Dr. Vijai Pandey and that Pandey had reason to suspect a con. But the information<a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0706061uglybride3.html"> in the lawsuit is typical of Indian matrimonials, biased </a>about color and "fair complexion". A <a href="http://www.imilap.com/profileResultDetail2.asp?id=139">poignantly honest</a> matrimonial ad. <a href="http://www.unilever.com.my/fair&lovely_i.htm">Fair and Lovely</a> skin cream<a href="http://vsequeira.blogspot.com/2005/07/fair-lovely.html"> sold to Asian women </a>to bleach their skin. <a href="http://adaniel.tripod.com/origin.htm">The origin</a> of the word caste, in Sanskrit, is <a href="http://www.hindunet.org/varna/">varna </a>(literally meaning "color"). It refers to the ancient fourfold <a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/caste">division of Hindu society based on color</a>: the lighter the color, the higher the caste. This was reinforced by British racism, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravidian_race">promulgating the idea </a>that the darker skinned Dravidians in South India were from a different, supposedly inferior race, to the lighter skinned Aryans in the North. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arranged_marriage">About</a> arranged marriage. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365604 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:17:59 -0800 nickyskye By: padraigin http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365615 Tangential AskMe thread about Indian complexion <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/mefi/36132">here</a> comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365615 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:25:37 -0800 padraigin By: Slarty Bartfast http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365616 <em> I don't see why arranged marriages are an ugly characteristic of Indian culture.</em> Because this sort of thing happens <strong>all the time</strong> in India. Honestly, I don't even see why this is news. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365616 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:27:40 -0800 Slarty Bartfast By: contessa http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365673 wow -- many humble thanks to nickyskye for fleshing out the post with many great links! comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365673 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:56:23 -0800 contessa By: infini http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365726 Caveat Emptor are the first two words you learn in a foreign language after an arranged marriage. btdt. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365726 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:39:24 -0800 infini By: nickyskye http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365730 <strong>yhbc</strong>, Would you mind explaining a bit more what you meant about Rule 11 and this case? I'm curious and unfamiliar with legalese. I tried to make sense of your post but am bewildered. Are you saying that no lawyer in his right mind in Massachusetts would take on a "scandalous" case like this one and that's why Pandey's dad filed the lawsuit himself? Does that give the case less credence legally? What about the poor women, Savita, does she stand any chance for legal retribution for having been so publicly shamed? <strong>contessa</strong>, Thanks. Your post brings up a lot of thoughts for me. Not least of all the social punishment of being deemed U-G-L-Y. Living in India for ten years, I was, like most Americans, appalled at the idea of arranged marriages. But then over the years, after being predictably mortified by the whole "wheatish complexion" obsession in the matrimonial ads, I saw that, for the most part, arranged marriages in India are made in good faith by the community of each person and endure, with love, far more frequently than Western marriages. A cherished ex-boyfriend of mine, who was of the <a href="http://www.umanitoba.ca/institutes/natural_resources/mountain/book/5/3.html">Thakur caste</a> (a subdivision of the royal warring caste, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajput">the Rajputs</a>), previously had "a love marriage" (not an arranged one) with a woman of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit_(outcaste)">Untouchable caste</a>, named Lily, whose skin was paradoxically dark. She cheated on him and they divorced. There was a folk song about his broken marriage, "your Lily is black", sung for many years after their union dissolved and he married a Western woman. There is a marvellous movie about an Indian arranged marriage, called <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0265343/">Monsoon Wedding</a>. Very enjoyable and worth seeing. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365730 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:43:47 -0800 nickyskye By: galimatias http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365798 I'm personally shocked that this document was successfully submitted to a Court, considering all the misspellings and grammar errors make parts of it extremely unclear. Navigating it is a literary nightmare. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365798 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:40:39 -0800 galimatias By: clevershark http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365813 Maybe he'd have better luck suing for false advertising! comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365813 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:55:17 -0800 clevershark By: drstein http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365839 The girl is probably cute and certainly deserves better. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365839 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:17:27 -0800 drstein By: ohio http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365935 Rule 11 prevents attorneys from signing frivolous documents submitted to a court. It has nothing to do with scandal. If you sign a pleading, like this, that you know has no legal merit and is intended only to harrass the defendant, you can be pretty severely sanctioned. At the least, if an attorney had prepared this he or she would be ordered to pay the other side's costs in responding. Rule 11 is one of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure that has been adopted by most states. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365935 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:28:00 -0800 ohio By: yhbc http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365936 nickyskye - Rule 11 of the Massachusetts Rules of Civil Procedure requires that if a party in a lawsuit is represented by counsel (a lawyer), any pleading in the case must be signed by that lawyer (or by an individual lawyer in the firm representing the party). The lawyer's signature certifies that the lawyer has read the pleading and that to the best of his or her knowledge and belief there is good grounds to support it - in other words, that the pleading (a complaint, in this instance) is not frivolous or vindictive, and is at least arguably likely to succeed under the current law or a reasonable extension or reversal of current law, if the facts asserted therein are proven to be true. The Rule is obviously intended to cut down on groundless lawsuits, and it works well enough when lawyers are actually involved, because its practical impact is that if a pleading (or a whole case) is later found to be groundless or brought for bad reasons or no reasons at all, and a lawyer signed the pleading, that lawyer can be disciplined by having his or her license to practice law taken away - in essence, removing their means for making a livelihood. I only made my comment because after reading the description of the case, and the first page of the complaint, I thought I would be very surprised if any Massachusetts lawyer <em>had </em>signed the complaint. When I went to the last page, I was not surprised - the complaint was signed only by the plaintiff (someone can always file a pleading "pro se" if they are not represented by counsel), which indicated to me that either no lawyer the family went to would dare to take the case or the family didn't bother going to a any lawyers in the first place. Or, what ohio said. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365936 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:29:36 -0800 yhbc By: nickyskye http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365960 <strong>ohio</strong> and <strong>yhbc</strong>, Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to clarify that for me. I understand your points thoroughly now. It would seem this complaint is likely frivolous and Savita was globally shamed for no purpose whatsoever by this Pandey jerk. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365960 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:06:45 -0800 nickyskye By: ArunK http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365984 I have a feeling this case will be tossed out. Unfortunately these types of cases happen all too often in India and in the Indian American community. Not everyone who feels he has been wronged takes these cases to court. When thinking of marriage for their son/daughter, the parents and relatives act like they're going out shopping for a car or something as trivial as purchasing a new pair of pants. What they could do is let their son/daughter decide for themselves who they will marry, and not dictate it to them. Plus at 37, if you need help from your family to find a girl for you, you have more serious problems than you may care to admit to. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365984 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:41:50 -0800 ArunK By: infini http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365992 Plus at 37, if you need help from your family to find a girl for you, you have more serious problems than you may care to admit to. posted by ArunK at 7:41 PM PST on July 11 [+fave] [!] On the other hand in the Indian community's eyes, if you're putting your own advt's online there must be something wrong with you that neither a friend nor relative could be found for 'form's sake' - which while trivial seeming to others, provides much need 'face' saving layers. i.e. a third party rejecting you is never as bad as being directly rejected. Something that didn't go right in this case. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365992 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:02:44 -0800 infini By: pyramid termite http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366025 you know, i can't say i'm for arranged marriages and all that seems to come with it, but ... it seems to me that people who live in a country where 50% of marriages end in divorce ought to be a little less judgemental about india's customs comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366025 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:00:44 -0800 pyramid termite By: nickyskye http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366064 omg, A friend just told me about the <a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article1173240.ece">train bombings</a>, <a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article1173239.ece">massacre in Mumbai</a>. My heart goes out to the familes, husbands, wives and children who were injured and the families of those that were injured or killed. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366064 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:53:46 -0800 nickyskye By: ArunK http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366099 <em>you know, i can't say i'm for arranged marriages and all that seems to come with it, but ... it seems to me that people who live in a country where 50% of marriages end in divorce ought to be a little less judgemental about india's customs</em> I saw a documentary about arranged marriages in India, and one important fact which was depicted in it was the idea that people stay together for the kids. Even if they get the crap beat out of them on a regular basis, burned with acid for not giving the husband enough dowry money, etc, a lot of women would still rather "stand by their man". People look down on you if you get divorced, or have a kid out of wedlock, they think its not honorable. All the crap that happens here also happens there, even more so, I would say. Its just behind closed doors and not talked about in public. So this whole argument about divorce rate being low there is a lot of BS. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366099 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 23:06:47 -0800 ArunK By: Goofyy http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366133 Hrmph. Indians do what they wish, according to their own values. If they value their culture/tradition over their own choice, that is how they will do things. It isn't my place to find fault in it. Rather, to wish them the best. I might attempt to influence their choice, or, at least, how they choose. Surely an arranged marriage doesn't have to be a bad thing. IMO, a good man values his wife. A happy wife raises the best kids, and makes a happy home. This is conducive to prosperity. I don't know much about their culture, I just like the food and music and antiquities. I've known some nice people that were Indian. I've met a few that weren't nice. Kinda like Americans, Brits, Germans, Belgians, French... Given that such arrangements are their way of doing things, and if the facts as presented are true, I say, have at it, pal. So they tried to pass off an ugly cousin as a beauty, and she couldn't even carry a conversation? The fact that conversation was a criteria suggests that the values used were something better than most imply here. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366133 Wed, 12 Jul 2006 03:18:08 -0800 Goofyy By: CwgrlUp http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366286 <i>Lallan and Kanti sent a picture of Savita and Telephone Number in India and Vijai told them that he and Lalita couldn't tell much about Savita's complexion and beauty from it...</i> Perhaps this is what made us question the "values" he was concerned with most..... comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366286 Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:12:26 -0800 CwgrlUp By: Optimus Chyme http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366289 <em>you know, i can't say i'm for arranged marriages and all that seems to come with it, but ... it seems to me that people who live in a country where 50% of marriages end in divorce ought to be a little less judgemental about india's customs posted by pyramid termite at 9:00 PM PST on July 11</em> Even if we had a 99% divorce rate, the people involved are at least autonomous agents, instead of middle-aged children who need their mommy and daddy to give them orders. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366289 Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:13:32 -0800 Optimus Chyme By: Kirth Gerson http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366371 Divorce is not the worst <a href="http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9608/18/bride.burn/">thing that can happen </a>in a marriage, you know. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366371 Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:31:46 -0800 Kirth Gerson By: Optimus Chyme http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366430 uh kirth murder is part of their culture who are we to judge comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366430 Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:34:35 -0800 Optimus Chyme By: Kirth Gerson http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366435 Yeah, you're right - what was I thinking? comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366435 Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:38:39 -0800 Kirth Gerson By: daksya http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1367848 An earlier related <a href="http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/40830">post</a>. pyramid termite - <i>it seems to me that people who live in a country where 50% of marriages end in divorce ought to be a little less judgemental about india's customs</i> Cite, please. I have read this factoid at many sites on the Intarweb, but I suspect there's a technicality or fine print involved which is omitted or obscured. comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1367848 Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:13:20 -0800 daksya
This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.
<rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:admin="http://webns.net/mvcb/" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#" version="2.0">
<channel>
<title>Comments on: U-G-L-Y you ain't got no alibi</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi/</link>
<description>Comments on MetaFilter post U-G-L-Y you ain't got no alibi</description>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:55:51 -0800</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:55:51 -0800</lastBuildDate>
<language>en-us</language>
<docs>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss</docs>
<ttl>60</ttl>
<item>
<title>U-G-L-Y you ain't got no alibi</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi</link>
<description><a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0706061uglybride1.html">The Case of the Ugly Bride</a>. They said she would be of fair complexion and able to speak English, but she wasn't - so the groom's family is suing the bride's relatives for fraud, deciet, conspiracy, unjust enrichment, violation of the Civil Rights Act, amongst other torrid claims.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">post:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:46:00 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>contessa</dc:creator>
<category>ugly</category>
<category>bride</category>
<category>wedding</category>
<category>arrangedmarriage</category>
<category>batshitinsane</category>
<category>hitlerific</category>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: delmoi</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365457</link>
<description><i>On MARCH 23, 2006, Defendant Hertz Faxed and sent a "Mafia like" letter by Federal Express to Plaintiff, Dr. Pandey that was extreemly malicious, accusatory, threatening, intimidating, coercive and <b>Hitlerite</b></i>.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365457</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:55:51 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>delmoi</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: contessa</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365462</link>
<description>(delmoi, that was my favorite part. They godwinned themselves!!)</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365462</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:56:59 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>contessa</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Kirth Gerson</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365466</link>
<description>Is that like Kryptonite somehow?</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365466</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:58:46 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Kirth Gerson</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: orange swan</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365473</link>
<description>A marriage of sorts <i>has</i> taken place &mdash; between the ugliest characteristics of American and Indian cultures.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365473</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:03:21 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>orange swan</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: oddman</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365476</link>
<description>I don't see why arranged marriages are an ugly characteristic of Indian culture.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365476</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:05:10 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>oddman</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Astro Zombie</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365477</link>
<description>I wouldneed to see an image of the woman to make up my mindhow I feel about this.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365477</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:06:03 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Astro Zombie</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: flashboy</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365480</link>
<description>I suspect the plaintiff is either a noble and principled fighter for justice, or is under the influence of bhang.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365480</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:08:15 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>flashboy</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Red58</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365481</link>
<description>No one is talking about how attractive or unattractive the potential groom is. Or who has more education.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365481</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:08:47 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Red58</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: 517</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365485</link>
<description>No pictures!?</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365485</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:10:13 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>517</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: orange swan</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365487</link>
<description>Arranged with the consent of both bride and groom, perhaps not. But when it involves "bride prices" and/or forced marriage, it certainly is ugly.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365487</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:10:51 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>orange swan</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: a3matrix</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365489</link>
<description><em>..his 37-year-old son</em> Wow, someone needs to tell the old man to mind his own business. At 37 it is hard to imagine my father dictating anything to me ESPECIALLY who I am going to marry. Also, doesn't 37 seem a bit late for an arrange marriage?</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365489</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:11:31 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>a3matrix</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: boo_radley</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365490</link>
<description>Hitler<em>esque</em>, surely.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365490</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:11:43 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>boo_radley</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: yhbc</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365499</link>
<description>The case being in Massachusetts, the first thing I looked for was to see what attorney or law firm signed the complaint, and I wasn't surprised to find that the groom's father wrote and signed the complaint himself. There's a reason we have <a href="http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/mrcp11.html">Rule 11 </a> to keep attorneys from filing these suits - it doesn't stop people from doing it themselves, though.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365499</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:16:37 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>yhbc</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Optimus Chyme</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365500</link>
<description>Solution: stop having arranged marriages, you fucking barbarians.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365500</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:16:49 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Optimus Chyme</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: mr_roboto</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365503</link>
<description>Weird, I would have said <i>Hilterian</i>.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365503</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:17:42 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>mr_roboto</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: leftcoastbob</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365511</link>
<description>Ugly is as ugly does.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365511</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:22:43 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>leftcoastbob</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Astro Zombie</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365513</link>
<description>It does have a certain Hitleritude.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365513</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:23:04 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Astro Zombie</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Astro Zombie</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365514</link>
<description>Or should I say Hirlerity.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365514</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:23:18 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Astro Zombie</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: clearlynuts</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365515</link>
<description>Um ... Hitlerity ensues!</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365515</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:23:22 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>clearlynuts</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Gamblor</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365526</link>
<description>The amazing thing is that this guy was so concerned with the bride's looks, and yet he never heard of this thing called a camera.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365526</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:27:57 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Gamblor</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: joe lisboa</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365535</link>
<description>The case being in Massachusetts, the first thing I looked for was a way to blame this on gay marriage.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365535</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:34:55 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>joe lisboa</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: beerbajay</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365536</link>
<description><b>Feedback:</b> Item not as described! Seller unresponsive, would not take a return. I have denied payment.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365536</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:35:44 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>beerbajay</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Gator</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365540</link>
<description>Oy. Did y'all make it to the end, where he <i>demands</i> a trial by jury on all counts? I would pay for a transcript of that, in the unlikely event it ever gets to that point. "Did you or did you not, on or about August 22, 2003, protrude your bad Hitlerite teeth at the parents of your handsome and fair-complected fiancé?"</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365540</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:36:54 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Gator</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Gamblor</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365544</link>
<description><em>they were extremely shocked to find out that Savita was ugly with <strong>dark complexion</strong> and protruded bad teeth and couldn't speak English to carry on a conversation</em> I suppose buck-teeth could be fixed with braces, and you could hire an English tutor, but being dark-skinned is just an unforgivable sin.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365544</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:38:02 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Gamblor</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: 1adam12</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365547</link>
<description>37 year old who's probably been dating someone unacceptable to his parents in secret for years, and now his parents are trying to buy him a wife. I've actually heard this story before, in modified form, from several people that attended my college. As long as mom and dad are calling the shots, I don't care how old you are physically - you're still a kid.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365547</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:40:27 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>1adam12</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Busithoth</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365550</link>
<description>I miss Belchertown.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365550</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:41:45 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Busithoth</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: It's Raining Florence Henderson</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365557</link>
<description>Wouldn't this sort of thing be covered by the lemon law? I'm not familiar with Massachusetts statutes, but surely she could be returned for a full refund or traded in for another model?</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365557</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:47:01 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>It's Raining Florence Henderson</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: orange swan</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365586</link>
<description><i>Wouldn't this sort of thing be covered by the lemon law?</i> Illicit transactions such prostitution and drug dealing wouldn't be covered under such a law. This would qualify as an illicit transaction.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365586</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:06:09 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>orange swan</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: graventy</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365588</link>
<description>That's why I always arrange my foreign brides through a corporation with a 30-day money back guarantee.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365588</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:07:14 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>graventy</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Kirth Gerson</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365592</link>
<description>Raining, the Lemon Law in MA says that the dealer gets several opportunities to repair the merchandise. only if effective repairs are not made does the buyer get their money back. After that, they have to burn it.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365592</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:08:31 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Kirth Gerson</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: yhbc</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365601</link>
<description>The Lemon Law also only applies to <em>dealers </em>in merchandise of the type purchased, not individual sellers. Furthermore, defects covered by the warranty include a defect in the function or usefulness of a component or malfunction or combination thereof; defects that affect only appearance are not covered. Hence, he's out of luck.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365601</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:16:18 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>yhbc</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: nickyskye</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365604</link>
<description>I feel sad for <a href="http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=147386">Savita</a> in all this. International humiliation. But she's been saved marrying a total jerk and will get away from her creepy relatives. Surprise,<a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hitlerite"> Hitlerite </a>is an actual adjective. The lyrics to <a href="http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/19/messages/485.html">U-G-L-Y You Ain't Got No Alibi</a>. Dr. Vijai Pandey should have<a href="http://www.shaadi.com/matrimonials/india-matrimonial"> tried </a> <a href="http://www.shaadi.com/shaadi_info/matrimonial_success_stories/index.php">Shaadi.com</a>. (Shaadi in Hindi means marriage). Sounds like the guy who tried to marry off his niece had a history of using Dr. Vijai Pandey and that Pandey had reason to suspect a con. But the information<a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0706061uglybride3.html"> in the lawsuit is typical of Indian matrimonials, biased </a>about color and "fair complexion". A <a href="http://www.imilap.com/profileResultDetail2.asp?id=139">poignantly honest</a> matrimonial ad. <a href="http://www.unilever.com.my/fair&lovely_i.htm">Fair and Lovely</a> skin cream<a href="http://vsequeira.blogspot.com/2005/07/fair-lovely.html"> sold to Asian women </a>to bleach their skin. <a href="http://adaniel.tripod.com/origin.htm">The origin</a> of the word caste, in Sanskrit, is <a href="http://www.hindunet.org/varna/">varna </a>(literally meaning "color"). It refers to the ancient fourfold <a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/caste">division of Hindu society based on color</a>: the lighter the color, the higher the caste. This was reinforced by British racism, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravidian_race">promulgating the idea </a>that the darker skinned Dravidians in South India were from a different, supposedly inferior race, to the lighter skinned Aryans in the North. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arranged_marriage">About</a> arranged marriage.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365604</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:17:59 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>nickyskye</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: padraigin</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365615</link>
<description>Tangential AskMe thread about Indian complexion <a href="http://ask.metafilter.com/mefi/36132">here</a></description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365615</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:25:37 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>padraigin</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Slarty Bartfast</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365616</link>
<description><em> I don't see why arranged marriages are an ugly characteristic of Indian culture.</em> Because this sort of thing happens <strong>all the time</strong> in India. Honestly, I don't even see why this is news.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365616</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:27:40 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Slarty Bartfast</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: contessa</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365673</link>
<description>wow -- many humble thanks to nickyskye for fleshing out the post with many great links!</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365673</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:56:23 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>contessa</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: infini</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365726</link>
<description>Caveat Emptor are the first two words you learn in a foreign language after an arranged marriage. btdt.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365726</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:39:24 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>infini</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: nickyskye</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365730</link>
<description><strong>yhbc</strong>, Would you mind explaining a bit more what you meant about Rule 11 and this case? I'm curious and unfamiliar with legalese. I tried to make sense of your post but am bewildered. Are you saying that no lawyer in his right mind in Massachusetts would take on a "scandalous" case like this one and that's why Pandey's dad filed the lawsuit himself? Does that give the case less credence legally? What about the poor women, Savita, does she stand any chance for legal retribution for having been so publicly shamed? <strong>contessa</strong>, Thanks. Your post brings up a lot of thoughts for me. Not least of all the social punishment of being deemed U-G-L-Y. Living in India for ten years, I was, like most Americans, appalled at the idea of arranged marriages. But then over the years, after being predictably mortified by the whole "wheatish complexion" obsession in the matrimonial ads, I saw that, for the most part, arranged marriages in India are made in good faith by the community of each person and endure, with love, far more frequently than Western marriages. A cherished ex-boyfriend of mine, who was of the <a href="http://www.umanitoba.ca/institutes/natural_resources/mountain/book/5/3.html">Thakur caste</a> (a subdivision of the royal warring caste, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajput">the Rajputs</a>), previously had "a love marriage" (not an arranged one) with a woman of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit_(outcaste)">Untouchable caste</a>, named Lily, whose skin was paradoxically dark. She cheated on him and they divorced. There was a folk song about his broken marriage, "your Lily is black", sung for many years after their union dissolved and he married a Western woman. There is a marvellous movie about an Indian arranged marriage, called <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0265343/">Monsoon Wedding</a>. Very enjoyable and worth seeing.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365730</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:43:47 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>nickyskye</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: galimatias</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365798</link>
<description>I'm personally shocked that this document was successfully submitted to a Court, considering all the misspellings and grammar errors make parts of it extremely unclear. Navigating it is a literary nightmare.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365798</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:40:39 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>galimatias</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: clevershark</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365813</link>
<description>Maybe he'd have better luck suing for false advertising!</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365813</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:55:17 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>clevershark</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: drstein</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365839</link>
<description>The girl is probably cute and certainly deserves better.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365839</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:17:27 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>drstein</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: ohio</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365935</link>
<description>Rule 11 prevents attorneys from signing frivolous documents submitted to a court. It has nothing to do with scandal. If you sign a pleading, like this, that you know has no legal merit and is intended only to harrass the defendant, you can be pretty severely sanctioned. At the least, if an attorney had prepared this he or she would be ordered to pay the other side's costs in responding. Rule 11 is one of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure that has been adopted by most states.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365935</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:28:00 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>ohio</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: yhbc</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365936</link>
<description>nickyskye - Rule 11 of the Massachusetts Rules of Civil Procedure requires that if a party in a lawsuit is represented by counsel (a lawyer), any pleading in the case must be signed by that lawyer (or by an individual lawyer in the firm representing the party). The lawyer's signature certifies that the lawyer has read the pleading and that to the best of his or her knowledge and belief there is good grounds to support it - in other words, that the pleading (a complaint, in this instance) is not frivolous or vindictive, and is at least arguably likely to succeed under the current law or a reasonable extension or reversal of current law, if the facts asserted therein are proven to be true. The Rule is obviously intended to cut down on groundless lawsuits, and it works well enough when lawyers are actually involved, because its practical impact is that if a pleading (or a whole case) is later found to be groundless or brought for bad reasons or no reasons at all, and a lawyer signed the pleading, that lawyer can be disciplined by having his or her license to practice law taken away - in essence, removing their means for making a livelihood. I only made my comment because after reading the description of the case, and the first page of the complaint, I thought I would be very surprised if any Massachusetts lawyer <em>had </em>signed the complaint. When I went to the last page, I was not surprised - the complaint was signed only by the plaintiff (someone can always file a pleading "pro se" if they are not represented by counsel), which indicated to me that either no lawyer the family went to would dare to take the case or the family didn't bother going to a any lawyers in the first place. Or, what ohio said.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365936</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:29:36 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>yhbc</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: nickyskye</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365960</link>
<description><strong>ohio</strong> and <strong>yhbc</strong>, Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to clarify that for me. I understand your points thoroughly now. It would seem this complaint is likely frivolous and Savita was globally shamed for no purpose whatsoever by this Pandey jerk.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365960</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:06:45 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>nickyskye</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: ArunK</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365984</link>
<description>I have a feeling this case will be tossed out. Unfortunately these types of cases happen all too often in India and in the Indian American community. Not everyone who feels he has been wronged takes these cases to court. When thinking of marriage for their son/daughter, the parents and relatives act like they're going out shopping for a car or something as trivial as purchasing a new pair of pants. What they could do is let their son/daughter decide for themselves who they will marry, and not dictate it to them. Plus at 37, if you need help from your family to find a girl for you, you have more serious problems than you may care to admit to.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365984</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:41:50 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>ArunK</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: infini</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1365992</link>
<description>Plus at 37, if you need help from your family to find a girl for you, you have more serious problems than you may care to admit to. posted by ArunK at 7:41 PM PST on July 11 [+fave] [!] On the other hand in the Indian community's eyes, if you're putting your own advt's online there must be something wrong with you that neither a friend nor relative could be found for 'form's sake' - which while trivial seeming to others, provides much need 'face' saving layers. i.e. a third party rejecting you is never as bad as being directly rejected. Something that didn't go right in this case.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1365992</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:02:44 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>infini</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: pyramid termite</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366025</link>
<description>you know, i can't say i'm for arranged marriages and all that seems to come with it, but ... it seems to me that people who live in a country where 50% of marriages end in divorce ought to be a little less judgemental about india's customs</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366025</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:00:44 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>pyramid termite</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: nickyskye</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366064</link>
<description>omg, A friend just told me about the <a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article1173240.ece">train bombings</a>, <a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article1173239.ece">massacre in Mumbai</a>. My heart goes out to the familes, husbands, wives and children who were injured and the families of those that were injured or killed.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366064</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:53:46 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>nickyskye</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: ArunK</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366099</link>
<description><em>you know, i can't say i'm for arranged marriages and all that seems to come with it, but ... it seems to me that people who live in a country where 50% of marriages end in divorce ought to be a little less judgemental about india's customs</em> I saw a documentary about arranged marriages in India, and one important fact which was depicted in it was the idea that people stay together for the kids. Even if they get the crap beat out of them on a regular basis, burned with acid for not giving the husband enough dowry money, etc, a lot of women would still rather "stand by their man". People look down on you if you get divorced, or have a kid out of wedlock, they think its not honorable. All the crap that happens here also happens there, even more so, I would say. Its just behind closed doors and not talked about in public. So this whole argument about divorce rate being low there is a lot of BS.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366099</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 23:06:47 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>ArunK</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Goofyy</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366133</link>
<description>Hrmph. Indians do what they wish, according to their own values. If they value their culture/tradition over their own choice, that is how they will do things. It isn't my place to find fault in it. Rather, to wish them the best. I might attempt to influence their choice, or, at least, how they choose. Surely an arranged marriage doesn't have to be a bad thing. IMO, a good man values his wife. A happy wife raises the best kids, and makes a happy home. This is conducive to prosperity. I don't know much about their culture, I just like the food and music and antiquities. I've known some nice people that were Indian. I've met a few that weren't nice. Kinda like Americans, Brits, Germans, Belgians, French... Given that such arrangements are their way of doing things, and if the facts as presented are true, I say, have at it, pal. So they tried to pass off an ugly cousin as a beauty, and she couldn't even carry a conversation? The fact that conversation was a criteria suggests that the values used were something better than most imply here.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366133</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 03:18:08 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Goofyy</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: CwgrlUp</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366286</link>
<description><i>Lallan and Kanti sent a picture of Savita and Telephone Number in India and Vijai told them that he and Lalita couldn't tell much about Savita's complexion and beauty from it...</i> Perhaps this is what made us question the "values" he was concerned with most.....</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366286</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:12:26 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>CwgrlUp</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Optimus Chyme</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366289</link>
<description><em>you know, i can't say i'm for arranged marriages and all that seems to come with it, but ... it seems to me that people who live in a country where 50% of marriages end in divorce ought to be a little less judgemental about india's customs posted by pyramid termite at 9:00 PM PST on July 11</em> Even if we had a 99% divorce rate, the people involved are at least autonomous agents, instead of middle-aged children who need their mommy and daddy to give them orders.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366289</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:13:32 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Optimus Chyme</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Kirth Gerson</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366371</link>
<description>Divorce is not the worst <a href="http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9608/18/bride.burn/">thing that can happen </a>in a marriage, you know.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366371</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:31:46 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Kirth Gerson</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Optimus Chyme</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366430</link>
<description>uh kirth murder is part of their culture who are we to judge</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366430</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:34:35 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Optimus Chyme</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: Kirth Gerson</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1366435</link>
<description>Yeah, you're right - what was I thinking?</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1366435</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:38:39 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Kirth Gerson</dc:creator>
</item>
<item>
<title>By: daksya</title>
<link>http://www.metafilter.com/52925/UGLY-you-aint-got-no-alibi#1367848</link>
<description>An earlier related <a href="http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/40830">post</a>. pyramid termite - <i>it seems to me that people who live in a country where 50% of marriages end in divorce ought to be a little less judgemental about india's customs</i> Cite, please. I have read this factoid at many sites on the Intarweb, but I suspect there's a technicality or fine print involved which is omitted or obscured.</description>
<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2006:site.52925-1367848</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:13:20 -0800</pubDate>
<dc:creator>daksya</dc:creator>
</item>
</channel>
</rss>