Froods and Leets and Yalms! Oh my!
August 8, 2006 8:00 AM Subscribe
Anarchy Online is free until January!...but is it worth it?
Wow. I remember when a friend of mine got involved with beta testing for AO.... about seven years ago.
posted by Dr-Baa at 8:10 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by Dr-Baa at 8:10 AM on August 8, 2006
AO has been free for a while now, the question remains: is your time really worth less than that?
posted by prostyle at 8:12 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by prostyle at 8:12 AM on August 8, 2006
It's been free for some time. You are also limited to reaching a certain level, and this doesn't include access to any expansions.
Still, free is free.
Here is a list of a whole bunch of multiplayer games which are to some degree or another, free
posted by poppo at 8:15 AM on August 8, 2006
Still, free is free.
Here is a list of a whole bunch of multiplayer games which are to some degree or another, free
posted by poppo at 8:15 AM on August 8, 2006
Puzzle Pirates is also free, and it's actually worth your time.
posted by thanotopsis at 8:19 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by thanotopsis at 8:19 AM on August 8, 2006
Holy Toledo. I thought this was abnormal, but it's ...see this is why I never make fpps. Still it's great to know. Thanks for the links Poppo & Thano. Keep'm comin'.
posted by ZachsMind at 8:26 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by ZachsMind at 8:26 AM on August 8, 2006
After January does it become Capitalism Online?
Are you implying that capitalism and anarchy are somehow opposites?
posted by Plutor at 8:28 AM on August 8, 2006
Are you implying that capitalism and anarchy are somehow opposites?
posted by Plutor at 8:28 AM on August 8, 2006
Political anarchism is typically associated with socialism. Unless you count libertarianism. And I don't.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:44 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:44 AM on August 8, 2006
I just want to also state for the record that Puzzle Pirates is way worth your time. ARRRRR
posted by tittergrrl at 8:44 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by tittergrrl at 8:44 AM on August 8, 2006
Perhaps you're inferring it, Plutor.
posted by boo_radley at 8:48 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by boo_radley at 8:48 AM on August 8, 2006
Political anarchism is typically associated with socialism
This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
posted by riotgrrl69 at 8:55 AM on August 8, 2006
This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
posted by riotgrrl69 at 8:55 AM on August 8, 2006
Political anarchism is typically associated with socialism.By who? Anarchy is the lack of any government at all. Socialism has the government controlling just about everything. How are these two equivalent? If anything, they seem, to me at least, to be opposites.
posted by magodesky at 8:59 AM on August 8, 2006
Ooh! I'm on Puzzle Pirates too! (Gwynneth, because someone thought 'karmakaze' wasn't thematic enoufh). We should doa MeFi pillage!
posted by Karmakaze at 9:02 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by Karmakaze at 9:02 AM on August 8, 2006
This was a great game when I was 19. Then, I reached level 60 or something, and was unable to solo.
I hate games that make you team up for loot.
But it is very pretty.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 9:25 AM on August 8, 2006
I hate games that make you team up for loot.
But it is very pretty.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 9:25 AM on August 8, 2006
Poor Anarchy Online. These online games have massive budgets and when one fails as badly as AO did, a lot of money is wasted. Auto Assault is another recent high visibility failure.
I give the AO guys credit for trying to still make it work. My favourite online game Eve Online was resurrected from near death when CCP bought the game back from the publishers and kept it alive. Now it's got 120,000+ subscribers and a big new Chinese launch and they're doing well.
Isn't AO ad supported?
posted by Nelson at 9:26 AM on August 8, 2006
I give the AO guys credit for trying to still make it work. My favourite online game Eve Online was resurrected from near death when CCP bought the game back from the publishers and kept it alive. Now it's got 120,000+ subscribers and a big new Chinese launch and they're doing well.
Isn't AO ad supported?
posted by Nelson at 9:26 AM on August 8, 2006
We should doa MeFi pillage!
You know, I'd go back to Y!PP for that. I gave it up for a while when I discovered my campus network wouldn't let me play....
posted by Richard Daly at 9:26 AM on August 8, 2006
You know, I'd go back to Y!PP for that. I gave it up for a while when I discovered my campus network wouldn't let me play....
posted by Richard Daly at 9:26 AM on August 8, 2006
Oh, here's a graph of AO players. The highest sustained peak was 40,000, they're down to about 10,000 people. No data for 2006 though, which I think leaves out the free period.
posted by Nelson at 9:27 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by Nelson at 9:27 AM on August 8, 2006
Metafilter: Are you people even familiar with Wikipedia?
posted by blucevalo at 9:30 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by blucevalo at 9:30 AM on August 8, 2006
The discussion page for Anarchy at Wikipedia is a great example of the reasons anarchy will never come to pass.
posted by Bookhouse at 9:37 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by Bookhouse at 9:37 AM on August 8, 2006
That Anarchism entry in Wikipedia is way too well-organized for its subject matter.
posted by adamrice at 9:42 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by adamrice at 9:42 AM on August 8, 2006
AO has crashed on me like two or three times a day since I started playing it. Sometimes it's a memory dump that kills the whole computer, and sometimes just the AO proggie itself freezes up and then throws me to the desktop. If I were paying for it, not sure if I'd be happy about that. Just started a few weeks ago though. Trying to find something to replace my City of Heroes fix (which got too expensive to keep up, and with overtime at work I have less time to play any games). Running around shooting pistols isn't quite the same as COH, but it's cheaper. =)
posted by ZachsMind at 9:45 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by ZachsMind at 9:45 AM on August 8, 2006
For more subtle killing and pillaging, might I reccomend Hell
posted by analogue at 9:58 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by analogue at 9:58 AM on August 8, 2006
I played AO (and paid for the privilege) for a few months. The bugs. Jesus, the bugs.
I spent my first 2 days trapped under a building.
Good idea with a terrible execution. Outside of the bugs, it wasn't a terrible game, but certainly wasn't very "good" either. Missions were all done in instances, and there were only a handful of instances, just with the maps randomly redrawn.
Their unique idea was to have everyone on one giant server, not separated by many servers. This was supposed to foster community as there is only 1 big community. This proved to overwhelm their technology immediately, literally the first day of release, and very soon after release they opened more "worlds".
At one point they were about to close and called in a MMOG consulting company whose name escapes me (who knew such a thing even existed?) and they more-or-less began the "try it for free" model that most modern MMOG's use.
But of course, this was, what, 4-5 years ago? Perhaps it has improved. But probably not. I don't know of a MMOG that became substantially better after release. Minor, incremental improvements, sure, but never a major overhaul.
Note that Star Wars Galaxies attempted this kind of retool and failed miserably. But they had precious little to lose. How you can have a license like that and turn out such a pile of crap I'll never understand.
Nelson: did Auto Assault ever hit release? It appears from the website it did. Is it struggling? I did the beta for it, and thought "oh my... they have completely and totally missed the mark" and lost track of it. Cars that heal and buff each other? Come on.
The MMOG failure I mourn the most is Motor City Online. The beta was fantastic fun, I mean, a rip-roaring good time with an incredibly friendly and welcoming community. But, it was full of bugs, and we begged, BEGGED, the developers not to release it as it was not ready. And, it only needed one more feature to be an assured success: a "cruising" or "open driving" area which was inexplicably left out (sort of like the dumbfounding choice to leave out a "open area" in The Sims Online).
I remember the chat with the developers where they said it was "out of their hands" and it was being released as it stood, for good or ill. It was released and crashed and burned miserably. I don't think it lasted a year after release. But it might have been the most pure "fun" I've ever had online. Simple, easy to understand, and advancement was based both on skill and on time dedication to equipment and tuning. Knowledge of cars and engines was also greatly rewarded.
The problem is now a racing based online game is considered a loosing idea, when in fact it was just an unfinished product rushed to market. And I mean unfinished by MMOG standards, which to those of you who play, you can imagine how early it must have been.
What I want to know is where is the Wild Wild West MMOG? That would be a fantastic setting. White hats, black hats, 6-shooters, bullwhips, train robberies, saloon fights, gambling, it could be a blast.
I think the most spectacular, and enjoyable, flameout was Shadowbane. You could hear the cries of thousands of teenaged griefers wailing in the night. It appears Shadowbane is still running, but it is a mere shadow (heh) of what it was supposed to be.
For anyone in the know, what is with the gigantic falloff of Everquest this year? Is it simply people moving to Warcraft? Is it really that simple? That's the one MMOG I could never bring myself to play due to what appeared to be sadistic tendencies by its design team, to actively punish players.
I've never been convinced Everquest was a game as much as a S&M simulator.
posted by Ynoxas at 10:02 AM on August 8, 2006
I spent my first 2 days trapped under a building.
Good idea with a terrible execution. Outside of the bugs, it wasn't a terrible game, but certainly wasn't very "good" either. Missions were all done in instances, and there were only a handful of instances, just with the maps randomly redrawn.
Their unique idea was to have everyone on one giant server, not separated by many servers. This was supposed to foster community as there is only 1 big community. This proved to overwhelm their technology immediately, literally the first day of release, and very soon after release they opened more "worlds".
At one point they were about to close and called in a MMOG consulting company whose name escapes me (who knew such a thing even existed?) and they more-or-less began the "try it for free" model that most modern MMOG's use.
But of course, this was, what, 4-5 years ago? Perhaps it has improved. But probably not. I don't know of a MMOG that became substantially better after release. Minor, incremental improvements, sure, but never a major overhaul.
Note that Star Wars Galaxies attempted this kind of retool and failed miserably. But they had precious little to lose. How you can have a license like that and turn out such a pile of crap I'll never understand.
Nelson: did Auto Assault ever hit release? It appears from the website it did. Is it struggling? I did the beta for it, and thought "oh my... they have completely and totally missed the mark" and lost track of it. Cars that heal and buff each other? Come on.
The MMOG failure I mourn the most is Motor City Online. The beta was fantastic fun, I mean, a rip-roaring good time with an incredibly friendly and welcoming community. But, it was full of bugs, and we begged, BEGGED, the developers not to release it as it was not ready. And, it only needed one more feature to be an assured success: a "cruising" or "open driving" area which was inexplicably left out (sort of like the dumbfounding choice to leave out a "open area" in The Sims Online).
I remember the chat with the developers where they said it was "out of their hands" and it was being released as it stood, for good or ill. It was released and crashed and burned miserably. I don't think it lasted a year after release. But it might have been the most pure "fun" I've ever had online. Simple, easy to understand, and advancement was based both on skill and on time dedication to equipment and tuning. Knowledge of cars and engines was also greatly rewarded.
The problem is now a racing based online game is considered a loosing idea, when in fact it was just an unfinished product rushed to market. And I mean unfinished by MMOG standards, which to those of you who play, you can imagine how early it must have been.
What I want to know is where is the Wild Wild West MMOG? That would be a fantastic setting. White hats, black hats, 6-shooters, bullwhips, train robberies, saloon fights, gambling, it could be a blast.
I think the most spectacular, and enjoyable, flameout was Shadowbane. You could hear the cries of thousands of teenaged griefers wailing in the night. It appears Shadowbane is still running, but it is a mere shadow (heh) of what it was supposed to be.
For anyone in the know, what is with the gigantic falloff of Everquest this year? Is it simply people moving to Warcraft? Is it really that simple? That's the one MMOG I could never bring myself to play due to what appeared to be sadistic tendencies by its design team, to actively punish players.
I've never been convinced Everquest was a game as much as a S&M simulator.
posted by Ynoxas at 10:02 AM on August 8, 2006
Almost any discussion page on Wikipedia is a recipe for anarchy (in the general and not the politico-philosophical sense). Really, you can just pick any one at random. Libya is a hoot. Elvis Costello is a little less rancorous, but ..... And don't even get started with the "controversial" entries, like Hezbollah or Joseph Stalin.
posted by blucevalo at 10:09 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by blucevalo at 10:09 AM on August 8, 2006
Political anarchism is typically associated with socialism.
That's an incredibly ignorant statement. And I don't need no fuckin' Wikipedia, I'm an actual anarchist.
posted by languagehat at 10:10 AM on August 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
That's an incredibly ignorant statement. And I don't need no fuckin' Wikipedia, I'm an actual anarchist.
posted by languagehat at 10:10 AM on August 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
"...and when one fails as badly as AO did..."
Do tell! I didn't hear about that. Is that like when GM failed but didn't really cuz it's still around? Or am I completely missing the point here?
posted by ZachsMind at 10:13 AM on August 8, 2006
Do tell! I didn't hear about that. Is that like when GM failed but didn't really cuz it's still around? Or am I completely missing the point here?
posted by ZachsMind at 10:13 AM on August 8, 2006
...did Auto Assault ever hit release? It appears from the website it did. Is it struggling?
In perhaps Auto Assault's final attempt at building any semblance of a community base, the folks at NCsoft will merge the sparse populations of their varied servers onto one magnificent pleasure palace of dullness tomorrow. viaposted by prostyle at 10:14 AM on August 8, 2006
You know, I'd go back to Y!PP for that.I wonder if that would count as a meetup/ When I get back from GenCon I'll have to MetaTalk it up!
posted by Karmakaze at 10:23 AM on August 8, 2006
@Astro Zombie:
I usually find myself agreeing with the spirit, if not the the letter, of your posts. But you really blew it with the anarchism/socialism conflation. And what's up with hating on libertarianism? Are you really opposed to the idea of maximizing personal freedom for everyone?
posted by oncogenesis at 10:32 AM on August 8, 2006
I usually find myself agreeing with the spirit, if not the the letter, of your posts. But you really blew it with the anarchism/socialism conflation. And what's up with hating on libertarianism? Are you really opposed to the idea of maximizing personal freedom for everyone?
posted by oncogenesis at 10:32 AM on August 8, 2006
Are you implying that capitalism and anarchy are somehow opposites?I was under the impression that pure capitalism was the only possible economic system when one lived in an anarchist state (which is to say, a state of anarchy as opposed to an anarchist state which is a oxymoron).
posted by illovich at 10:35 AM on August 8, 2006
AO has been dead longer than I have.
posted by the ghost of Ken Lay at 10:42 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by the ghost of Ken Lay at 10:42 AM on August 8, 2006
At one point they were about to close and called in a MMOG consulting company whose name escapes me (who knew such a thing even existed?) and they more-or-less began the "try it for free" model that most modern MMOG's use.
The Themis Group, the same people that run the Warcry Network and The Escapist Magazine.
posted by thanotopsis at 10:55 AM on August 8, 2006
The Themis Group, the same people that run the Warcry Network and The Escapist Magazine.
posted by thanotopsis at 10:55 AM on August 8, 2006
Nelson: did Auto Assault ever hit release? It appears from the website it did. Is it struggling? I did the beta for it, and thought "oh my... they have completely and totally missed the mark" and lost track of it. Cars that heal and buff each other? Come on.
It released, was a massive failure, and just recently announced consolidation back to one world/one server. The main criticism is that, instead of working in a Car Wars type of theme, they went with Everquest On Wheels.
What I want to know is where is the Wild Wild West MMOG? That would be a fantastic setting. White hats, black hats, 6-shooters, bullwhips, train robberies, saloon fights, gambling, it could be a blast.
No funding for it. There were at least 3 in development the last I heard of any effort in that direction (one Japanese, one that was intended to portray Native Americans in a good light, and one that was clearly developed without any forthought).
However, that's not to say the genre's dead for online games. The same folks that made Puzzle Pirates have recently opened a test for Bang! Howdy.
posted by thanotopsis at 10:59 AM on August 8, 2006
It released, was a massive failure, and just recently announced consolidation back to one world/one server. The main criticism is that, instead of working in a Car Wars type of theme, they went with Everquest On Wheels.
What I want to know is where is the Wild Wild West MMOG? That would be a fantastic setting. White hats, black hats, 6-shooters, bullwhips, train robberies, saloon fights, gambling, it could be a blast.
No funding for it. There were at least 3 in development the last I heard of any effort in that direction (one Japanese, one that was intended to portray Native Americans in a good light, and one that was clearly developed without any forthought).
However, that's not to say the genre's dead for online games. The same folks that made Puzzle Pirates have recently opened a test for Bang! Howdy.
posted by thanotopsis at 10:59 AM on August 8, 2006
Anarchy Online appears to be muddling on. The game has seen three expansion packs: Notum Wars, Shadowlands, and Alien Invasion. I played obsessively for about 8 months in 2002-2003 and left just as Shadowlands was launched.
The social connections formed by the players will keep a game going long after the game itself has stopped being enjoyable. It becomes a virtual chatspace inside a giant minigame. Lots of people are unwilling to give up the community. The Matrix Online is a steaming pile of dung, game-wise, but the community is tight and so they keep paying their fees and so the game limps onward.
posted by DWRoelands at 11:22 AM on August 8, 2006
The social connections formed by the players will keep a game going long after the game itself has stopped being enjoyable. It becomes a virtual chatspace inside a giant minigame. Lots of people are unwilling to give up the community. The Matrix Online is a steaming pile of dung, game-wise, but the community is tight and so they keep paying their fees and so the game limps onward.
posted by DWRoelands at 11:22 AM on August 8, 2006
And I don't need no fuckin' Wikipedia, I'm an actual anarchist
I am likewise an actual anarchist. Or perhaps my years at the Emma Center infoshop in Minneapolis don't count.
Beyond that -- derail.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:28 AM on August 8, 2006
I am likewise an actual anarchist. Or perhaps my years at the Emma Center infoshop in Minneapolis don't count.
Beyond that -- derail.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:28 AM on August 8, 2006
I take it, then, that you're one of those anarchists who thinks their particular splinter group is the only one that counts. "Anarchists are generally considered to be vegetarians/egotists/communists/terrorists..." (pick whichever applies).
As for that Wikipedia article, I just clicked on it and found a big colored box at the top that hollers:
The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Heh.
posted by languagehat at 11:36 AM on August 8, 2006
As for that Wikipedia article, I just clicked on it and found a big colored box at the top that hollers:
The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Heh.
posted by languagehat at 11:36 AM on August 8, 2006
DERAIL. You freakin' anarchist!
But, yes, nobody other than my splinter of anarchism counts.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:45 AM on August 8, 2006
But, yes, nobody other than my splinter of anarchism counts.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:45 AM on August 8, 2006
Why is there a standard symbol for anarchy? Shouldn't it be a different symbol each time?
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:56 AM on August 8, 2006
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:56 AM on August 8, 2006
Cookiebastard, I think you're conflating anrchy with chaos. A common misconception.
posted by lekvar at 12:24 PM on August 8, 2006
posted by lekvar at 12:24 PM on August 8, 2006
Why, cookiebastard? I think of anarchism as opposed to organized government - not to symbols, or social movements, or even social order. One might argue, in fact, that "Anarchism" itself is a symbol, in the sense that while it may not in fact be practical in its pure form, it is an ideal of freedom and individual responsibility to hold up as a goal - as an abstract destination toward which any progress is a step in the right direction.
I'm not saying I'd make that argument, but surely one could.
Joyous derail. I've always been pissed at the name of AO, so they deserve it.
posted by freebird at 12:27 PM on August 8, 2006
I'm not saying I'd make that argument, but surely one could.
Joyous derail. I've always been pissed at the name of AO, so they deserve it.
posted by freebird at 12:27 PM on August 8, 2006
"Beyond that -- derail."
I don't mind derails, Astro. Y'all can talk about anarchy if you want. I'm just happy to see my first FPP in over a year is doing better than I had anticipated. So argue all you want about anarchy. =) And online games or both or neither.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:37 PM on August 8, 2006
I don't mind derails, Astro. Y'all can talk about anarchy if you want. I'm just happy to see my first FPP in over a year is doing better than I had anticipated. So argue all you want about anarchy. =) And online games or both or neither.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:37 PM on August 8, 2006
OK, the short version
Anarchy, Democracy, Dictatorship: political system
Socialism, Capitalism: economic systems.
Economic systems and political systems are mix & match, thus you get socialist dictatorships, capitalist dictatorships, socialist anarchists, capitalist anarchists, capitalist democracies, etc.
posted by lekvar at 12:50 PM on August 8, 2006
Anarchy, Democracy, Dictatorship: political system
Socialism, Capitalism: economic systems.
Economic systems and political systems are mix & match, thus you get socialist dictatorships, capitalist dictatorships, socialist anarchists, capitalist anarchists, capitalist democracies, etc.
posted by lekvar at 12:50 PM on August 8, 2006
Played EQ (4 years), Galaxies (1 yr) and now WoW.
I know I'll be burned as a heretic for this, but I think EQ hit its peak with the Kunark expansion. The original release was also buggy as hell. With developers thinking that they knew everything about the game and the player base was an inconvience. It was nice to see in the later years the developers actually listening to the player base. I think the turning point on that game with the devs listening to the players was the great flameout with the Cleric epic quest.
I agree that it was not really a game but virtual S&M. I did not appreciate that fact until I started playing Galaxies and then WoW. I still look back at the first months of playing EQ with some of the fondest memories.
Galaxies has to be the biggest disappointment for me (and many people). The leveling was not too bad, but just poorly implemented. Whomever designed the Jedi Progression (v1.0 or v2.0) should have been stabbed, then shot, then burned. I still look back on playing that game fondly.
posted by Bqaggie87 at 1:20 PM on August 8, 2006
I know I'll be burned as a heretic for this, but I think EQ hit its peak with the Kunark expansion. The original release was also buggy as hell. With developers thinking that they knew everything about the game and the player base was an inconvience. It was nice to see in the later years the developers actually listening to the player base. I think the turning point on that game with the devs listening to the players was the great flameout with the Cleric epic quest.
I agree that it was not really a game but virtual S&M. I did not appreciate that fact until I started playing Galaxies and then WoW. I still look back at the first months of playing EQ with some of the fondest memories.
Galaxies has to be the biggest disappointment for me (and many people). The leveling was not too bad, but just poorly implemented. Whomever designed the Jedi Progression (v1.0 or v2.0) should have been stabbed, then shot, then burned. I still look back on playing that game fondly.
posted by Bqaggie87 at 1:20 PM on August 8, 2006
If they paid me, I might play AO.
And, god help me, I love puzzles, and I love pirates, but I hated Puzzle Pirates.
posted by solid-one-love at 1:21 PM on August 8, 2006
And, god help me, I love puzzles, and I love pirates, but I hated Puzzle Pirates.
posted by solid-one-love at 1:21 PM on August 8, 2006
Well, Anarchy Online actually appears to be a democratic republic clan versus corporate omni-whatsit. Not particularly anarchy. Too organized.
I never could get into EverQuest. That was the ex-wife's choice of poison. Didn't do much for me. All these other ones though... I'm like a kid in a candy store. LOL Amazing though, I don't see that ANY of these have a costumed vigilante motif. That's weird.
While we're at it, what are y'all's opinions on Second Life?
posted by ZachsMind at 1:41 PM on August 8, 2006
I never could get into EverQuest. That was the ex-wife's choice of poison. Didn't do much for me. All these other ones though... I'm like a kid in a candy store. LOL Amazing though, I don't see that ANY of these have a costumed vigilante motif. That's weird.
While we're at it, what are y'all's opinions on Second Life?
posted by ZachsMind at 1:41 PM on August 8, 2006
I really dug SecondLife, but never reallly played it. That is - the ability to run around in a multiperson physics engine, with ingame editing and scripting, is insanely rad. I was less interested in the virtual sex and gambling aspects, and since the engine isn't quite up to full in-game games, there wasn't much for me to do besides make stuff. That's fun, but I want to play a game sometimes too.
On the subject of wierd not-quite-games: A Tale in the Desert has been the most interesting and boring MMOG yet. There are game concepts in ATITD that are light years ahead of everything else, and that I see getting adopted everywhere. There is a style of gameplay and worldbuilding that is, I think, unrivalled. And yet at some point, you get tired of making rope and polishing rocks and think "what the hell is this? I wanted a GAME! I want something to happen! Call me a jerk, but I want to shoot something or drive fast or fly or...or...do anything besides COMB FUCKING FLAX PLANTS!"
posted by freebird at 1:56 PM on August 8, 2006
On the subject of wierd not-quite-games: A Tale in the Desert has been the most interesting and boring MMOG yet. There are game concepts in ATITD that are light years ahead of everything else, and that I see getting adopted everywhere. There is a style of gameplay and worldbuilding that is, I think, unrivalled. And yet at some point, you get tired of making rope and polishing rocks and think "what the hell is this? I wanted a GAME! I want something to happen! Call me a jerk, but I want to shoot something or drive fast or fly or...or...do anything besides COMB FUCKING FLAX PLANTS!"
posted by freebird at 1:56 PM on August 8, 2006
"what the hell is this? I wanted a GAME! I want something to happen! Call me a jerk, but I want to shoot something or drive fast or fly or...or...do anything besides COMB FUCKING FLAX PLANTS!"
When trying to monitor who was entering our little group of people playing ATiTD during its beginning, I fielded numerous tells from folks saying "Ok, how do I make a sword, then?"...because a game that complicated obviously had to have some way of fighting, right?
I'd agree, though, it was a grand concept, and well executed. It just didn't really pan out in the long run.
Flax was at least a click-action-planning subgame. Dowsing was the bane of my existence.
posted by thanotopsis at 2:01 PM on August 8, 2006
When trying to monitor who was entering our little group of people playing ATiTD during its beginning, I fielded numerous tells from folks saying "Ok, how do I make a sword, then?"...because a game that complicated obviously had to have some way of fighting, right?
I'd agree, though, it was a grand concept, and well executed. It just didn't really pan out in the long run.
Flax was at least a click-action-planning subgame. Dowsing was the bane of my existence.
posted by thanotopsis at 2:01 PM on August 8, 2006
"it [Anarchy] is an ideal of freedom and individual responsibility..."
How very "Randian". Is that a word? How about Objectivist?
posted by MikeMc at 2:54 PM on August 8, 2006
How very "Randian". Is that a word? How about Objectivist?
posted by MikeMc at 2:54 PM on August 8, 2006
SecondLife is a weird one. The idea is good, but when you think about it, because practically all the content/textures and stuff is player created, you can't really cache it in advance terribly well, so travelling around in it is not exactly seamless and things just pop up all the time, and a lot of the 'stuff' iteself is really quite clunky. It's a free download if you don't want to create anything, so I keep it around in case I hear of a neat project to visit, but I wouldn't want to SecondLive there.
I was going to play aTitD, and even created a character, but I couldn't remember my password and couldn't face more of whatever plant related thing you had to do too much of.
WoW on the other hand, pwns me.
I don't know of a MMOG that became substantially better after release.
I think the update that introduced BattleGrounds to WoW might qualify.
posted by Sparx at 2:58 PM on August 8, 2006
I was going to play aTitD, and even created a character, but I couldn't remember my password and couldn't face more of whatever plant related thing you had to do too much of.
WoW on the other hand, pwns me.
I don't know of a MMOG that became substantially better after release.
I think the update that introduced BattleGrounds to WoW might qualify.
posted by Sparx at 2:58 PM on August 8, 2006
I imagine that the Anarchy being related to Socialism comment must come from the close relations between socialists and anarchist in the 19th century/early 20th century. Especially in Asia, the union was a strong and productive one. (Take, for example, Osugi Sakae, the most prominent Japanese anarchist, who was also a socialist.)
But, if you're going to say that the traditional anarchist "movement" had nothing to do with socialism, I'm going to have to, with respect, say bullshit.
posted by absalom at 3:05 PM on August 8, 2006
But, if you're going to say that the traditional anarchist "movement" had nothing to do with socialism, I'm going to have to, with respect, say bullshit.
posted by absalom at 3:05 PM on August 8, 2006
Oh, and to get back on topic, I played AO for a little while when it first came out. My reaction to this news was : that's still around?
posted by absalom at 5:38 PM on August 8, 2006
posted by absalom at 5:38 PM on August 8, 2006
I don't know of a MMOG that became substantially better after release.
Eve Online gets consistently more complex and rich. The developers are committed to incremental changes in game mechanics to add more opportunities for people to play complex games with each other. The next expansion (Kali) is adding a significant new contract system to allow complex economic transactions.
posted by Nelson at 5:40 PM on August 8, 2006
Eve Online gets consistently more complex and rich. The developers are committed to incremental changes in game mechanics to add more opportunities for people to play complex games with each other. The next expansion (Kali) is adding a significant new contract system to allow complex economic transactions.
posted by Nelson at 5:40 PM on August 8, 2006
absalom: I couldn't disagree more. I think Battlegrounds substantially undermined WoW. World PVP was just starting to get interesting, and then the introduction of Battlegrounds completely erased world PVP on most servers. I realize that their subscriber base means at least a couple of million players disagree with me on this assessment. (Note: I am a PVE carebear wimp sissy nerd pussy. But, I did my share of raiding Tauren Mill and defending Crossroads. And I hated to see that just evaporate.)
I still play WoW "a little", maybe 5 hours a week, but it was very, very good when it first came on the scene, and except for loot lag almost completely devoid of serious bugs. It was also the first game in about 3-4 years that playing the beta did not "ruin" the actual release for me.
For me, MMOGs are all about the social aspect. I love playing with my friends, chatting on Teamspeak, and horsing around. But the game has to be mildly entertaining and not get in the way . WoW did that beautifully.
After some reflection, Dungeons & Dragons Online gets the award for "most squandered potential" of any MMOG to date. By that I mean "real" potential. As far as "vapor" potential, I don't know that anything will surpass Dawn. Fetapult! But D&D Online is simply dreadful. It has to be some sort of government sponsored social research project into the allegiance to brand names and the power of nostalgia, because the game simply sucks (played both Beta and Release... Release for 1 week). I will be shocked if this is not already the peak of the game and by the end of the year the graph will look like Asheron's Call 2.
Nelson: I've heard both very good and very bad about Eve Online. I've heard it described as "sim spreadsheet". Would you consider that accurate? Is there much "game" there beyond resource management?
The last space-themed MMOG I tried (beta of Earth and Beyond) was so bad it has made me shrink away from the entire genre.
thanotopsis: I hope something transpires wrt a wild west themed MMOG. It seems natural to me. *shrug* And yes, Everquest with cars was the exact way my friends and I characterized it. And it Just Doesn't Work (tm).
posted by Ynoxas at 8:51 PM on August 8, 2006
I still play WoW "a little", maybe 5 hours a week, but it was very, very good when it first came on the scene, and except for loot lag almost completely devoid of serious bugs. It was also the first game in about 3-4 years that playing the beta did not "ruin" the actual release for me.
For me, MMOGs are all about the social aspect. I love playing with my friends, chatting on Teamspeak, and horsing around. But the game has to be mildly entertaining and not get in the way . WoW did that beautifully.
After some reflection, Dungeons & Dragons Online gets the award for "most squandered potential" of any MMOG to date. By that I mean "real" potential. As far as "vapor" potential, I don't know that anything will surpass Dawn. Fetapult! But D&D Online is simply dreadful. It has to be some sort of government sponsored social research project into the allegiance to brand names and the power of nostalgia, because the game simply sucks (played both Beta and Release... Release for 1 week). I will be shocked if this is not already the peak of the game and by the end of the year the graph will look like Asheron's Call 2.
Nelson: I've heard both very good and very bad about Eve Online. I've heard it described as "sim spreadsheet". Would you consider that accurate? Is there much "game" there beyond resource management?
The last space-themed MMOG I tried (beta of Earth and Beyond) was so bad it has made me shrink away from the entire genre.
thanotopsis: I hope something transpires wrt a wild west themed MMOG. It seems natural to me. *shrug* And yes, Everquest with cars was the exact way my friends and I characterized it. And it Just Doesn't Work (tm).
posted by Ynoxas at 8:51 PM on August 8, 2006
After some reflection, Dungeons & Dragons Online gets the award for "most squandered potential" of any MMOG to date.
I'm sure we've talked about this before. As before, I agree completely. They fucked it up so very, very badly.
posted by solid-one-love at 9:30 PM on August 8, 2006
"I hope something transpires wrt a wild west themed MMOG"
A wild west theme would only work for me if it included elements of other genres like horror and scifi, a la Space 1889. I was always more partial to Artemis Gordon than I was to Jim West. I'd like to visit the kinda game world where fans of Brisco County, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Deadwood, Firefly/Serenity, and Jonah Hex would all feel at home together, but you could still exist in the game like a Wyatt Earp type if you wanted, or do the High Noon thing without overt scifi influence if you preferred. There'd be places out in the sticks where technology had either not arrived yet or it came and went leaving scars and not much else. The main places of commerce though, the larger towns, would have a steam-based technological boom that rewrote the laws of physics for purposes of gameplay. Mad scientists and not quite so mad scientists toiling away with figments of fancy that manifested themselves, wrecking havoc at erratic intervals. Alien devices, ancient totems, and small objects of unknown power and origin would be more or less as common as a true virgin might be in that time period. Nothing would outshine the need for a trusty horse however, which'd be worth their weight in gold. There'd also be indian burial grounds with eerie mystic forces, classic haunted houses to get lost in, and no one in their right mind would visit Boot Hill in the dark alone with or without a trusty pistol. The game world could be a fictitious past for the American wild west, that could never become our present, but had the potential to become something else entirely, and the players had the power to change future history, for better or for worse. That'd be an Old West worth downloading.
"For me, MMOGs are all about the social aspect. I love playing with my friends, chatting on Teamspeak, and horsing around..."
I managed to use TeamSpeak once in City of Heroes and it was mildly embarrassing. Cuz I'd rolled up a girl months before as a gag, and by chance she turned out to be the best character I ever rolled up in that game. So around level 35 these guys invited my girl to join their TeamSpeak thing. It wasn't like they were disappointed to find out the person behind the toon was a guy. Gender is a kinda moot point in a game where everyone's wearing tights, but... still, it felt like we were all three years old, they brought their GI Joes with a kung fu grip, and I could only find my sister's Malibu Barbie to bring to the sandbox. Like I said. Embarrassing.
With Anarchy Online I rolled up a guy, but I'm only twenty-five levels in and I'm bored. Maybe it's like what made Tomb Raider so popular: Lara's more fun to watch than Duke ever was. I think City of Heroes spoiled me. Another thing I noticed using a female toon. For some reason, people are more prone to giving you stuff. Not sure what to make of that.
Whatever happened to Matrix Online? I thought that was supposed to blow away the competition and change the face of MMORPGs or whatever..?
posted by ZachsMind at 10:17 PM on August 8, 2006
A wild west theme would only work for me if it included elements of other genres like horror and scifi, a la Space 1889. I was always more partial to Artemis Gordon than I was to Jim West. I'd like to visit the kinda game world where fans of Brisco County, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Deadwood, Firefly/Serenity, and Jonah Hex would all feel at home together, but you could still exist in the game like a Wyatt Earp type if you wanted, or do the High Noon thing without overt scifi influence if you preferred. There'd be places out in the sticks where technology had either not arrived yet or it came and went leaving scars and not much else. The main places of commerce though, the larger towns, would have a steam-based technological boom that rewrote the laws of physics for purposes of gameplay. Mad scientists and not quite so mad scientists toiling away with figments of fancy that manifested themselves, wrecking havoc at erratic intervals. Alien devices, ancient totems, and small objects of unknown power and origin would be more or less as common as a true virgin might be in that time period. Nothing would outshine the need for a trusty horse however, which'd be worth their weight in gold. There'd also be indian burial grounds with eerie mystic forces, classic haunted houses to get lost in, and no one in their right mind would visit Boot Hill in the dark alone with or without a trusty pistol. The game world could be a fictitious past for the American wild west, that could never become our present, but had the potential to become something else entirely, and the players had the power to change future history, for better or for worse. That'd be an Old West worth downloading.
"For me, MMOGs are all about the social aspect. I love playing with my friends, chatting on Teamspeak, and horsing around..."
I managed to use TeamSpeak once in City of Heroes and it was mildly embarrassing. Cuz I'd rolled up a girl months before as a gag, and by chance she turned out to be the best character I ever rolled up in that game. So around level 35 these guys invited my girl to join their TeamSpeak thing. It wasn't like they were disappointed to find out the person behind the toon was a guy. Gender is a kinda moot point in a game where everyone's wearing tights, but... still, it felt like we were all three years old, they brought their GI Joes with a kung fu grip, and I could only find my sister's Malibu Barbie to bring to the sandbox. Like I said. Embarrassing.
With Anarchy Online I rolled up a guy, but I'm only twenty-five levels in and I'm bored. Maybe it's like what made Tomb Raider so popular: Lara's more fun to watch than Duke ever was. I think City of Heroes spoiled me. Another thing I noticed using a female toon. For some reason, people are more prone to giving you stuff. Not sure what to make of that.
Whatever happened to Matrix Online? I thought that was supposed to blow away the competition and change the face of MMORPGs or whatever..?
posted by ZachsMind at 10:17 PM on August 8, 2006
Whatever happened to Matrix Online? I thought that was supposed to blow away the competition and change the face of MMORPGs or whatever..?
well, every mmog is supposed to do that. most fail miserably, and the matrix online was no exception.
the combat system was interesting, though. first implementation of turn-based combat i've seen in an mmorpg.
posted by jimmy at 12:29 AM on August 9, 2006
well, every mmog is supposed to do that. most fail miserably, and the matrix online was no exception.
the combat system was interesting, though. first implementation of turn-based combat i've seen in an mmorpg.
posted by jimmy at 12:29 AM on August 9, 2006
ZachsMind: Cuz I'd rolled up a girl months before as a gag, and by chance she turned out to be the best character I ever rolled up in that game.
In City of Heroes, I stopped playing women. Specifically, I couldn't play an avatar whose rear parts were molded to absolute perfection...I'd stop looking at what I was doing just to stare. Whoever was on the art team for that set of models and animation deserves a metal.
Ynoxas: I don't know that anything will surpass Dawn. Fetapult!
Ynoxas? Are you an ex-Lummie?
posted by thanotopsis at 11:12 AM on August 9, 2006
In City of Heroes, I stopped playing women. Specifically, I couldn't play an avatar whose rear parts were molded to absolute perfection...I'd stop looking at what I was doing just to stare. Whoever was on the art team for that set of models and animation deserves a metal.
Ynoxas: I don't know that anything will surpass Dawn. Fetapult!
Ynoxas? Are you an ex-Lummie?
posted by thanotopsis at 11:12 AM on August 9, 2006
"I couldn't play an avatar whose rear parts were molded to absolute perfection..."
I had pretty much the opposite reaction. Playing a guy in City of Heroes was laughable. In comic books, yellow spandex looked really cool on Wolverine, but when you take that and give it three dimensions, it's Barnum & Bailey. I couldn't make a costume for a guy in CoH that didn't make me laugh. Girls in those uniforms though? *wolf whistle*
Anarchy Online? Not so much. The game is pretty, and yet not as easy on the eyes for some reason. Wonder why that is? And it crashes more often than COH ever did.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:15 PM on August 9, 2006
I had pretty much the opposite reaction. Playing a guy in City of Heroes was laughable. In comic books, yellow spandex looked really cool on Wolverine, but when you take that and give it three dimensions, it's Barnum & Bailey. I couldn't make a costume for a guy in CoH that didn't make me laugh. Girls in those uniforms though? *wolf whistle*
Anarchy Online? Not so much. The game is pretty, and yet not as easy on the eyes for some reason. Wonder why that is? And it crashes more often than COH ever did.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:15 PM on August 9, 2006
Bit late to the show, but chiming in with the Puzzle Pirates love, as long as it came up. I'm Rummykins there, but I don't play much any more.
It was a full-time addiction for me for almost 2 years, though.
posted by jammer at 2:37 PM on August 9, 2006
It was a full-time addiction for me for almost 2 years, though.
posted by jammer at 2:37 PM on August 9, 2006
Ynoxas? Are you an ex-Lummie?
posted by thanotopsis at 1:12 PM CST on August 9 [+] [!]
Since the beginning as an avid reader, not a staff member, although I had a few things I posted in the forums put on the front page, which at that time, I was more proud of than if they had been printed in EGM. I miss that site more than any other now-defunct site I can think of on the whole intarweb. I was a UO counselor (on Atlantic) during the same time Arcadian was covert, through the scandals and all.
Lum's experience in WWII Online was what I see as the turning point of the entire industry, and one of the finest pieces of gaming journalism performed in any medium by anyone, ever.
It was an interesting era, and a time of "innocence lost" for MMOG lovers everywhere. Ultima Online hit, and everything changed. UO was such an open sandbox that we eagerly awaited each new game development, and at the time, lots of players believed every word the developers uttered. We expected each step after that to be just as momentous.
Obviously, we were a bit mistaken.
posted by Ynoxas at 10:22 PM on August 9, 2006
posted by thanotopsis at 1:12 PM CST on August 9 [+] [!]
Since the beginning as an avid reader, not a staff member, although I had a few things I posted in the forums put on the front page, which at that time, I was more proud of than if they had been printed in EGM. I miss that site more than any other now-defunct site I can think of on the whole intarweb. I was a UO counselor (on Atlantic) during the same time Arcadian was covert, through the scandals and all.
Lum's experience in WWII Online was what I see as the turning point of the entire industry, and one of the finest pieces of gaming journalism performed in any medium by anyone, ever.
It was an interesting era, and a time of "innocence lost" for MMOG lovers everywhere. Ultima Online hit, and everything changed. UO was such an open sandbox that we eagerly awaited each new game development, and at the time, lots of players believed every word the developers uttered. We expected each step after that to be just as momentous.
Obviously, we were a bit mistaken.
posted by Ynoxas at 10:22 PM on August 9, 2006
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