On 9/11, New Yorkers faced the fire in the minds of men
September 11, 2006 4:50 AM Subscribe
Slavoj Zizek United 93, WTC movies and 9/11 with some perspective no conspiracy theories here just a bit of philosophising.
Man, I'm in NYC and this remember 9/11 shit is everywhere. I hear they're even replaying the CNN footage of the attacks in real time. So depressing. Theory of Revolution
posted by the theory of revolution at 5:13 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by the theory of revolution at 5:13 AM on September 11, 2006
I hear they're even replaying the CNN footage of the attacks in real time. So depressing. Theory of Revolution
It's true- they are doing that. There seems to be a line between tribute and exploitation that's getting forgotten here. Dr-Baa
posted by Dr-Baa at 5:17 AM on September 11, 2006
It's true- they are doing that. There seems to be a line between tribute and exploitation that's getting forgotten here. Dr-Baa
posted by Dr-Baa at 5:17 AM on September 11, 2006
I'll be watching the CNN thing. Should make my work day more interesting. thirteenkiller
posted by thirteenkiller at 5:17 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by thirteenkiller at 5:17 AM on September 11, 2006
Not lean heavily on pre-9am snark, but neither of these are new movies, and the essay itself idoesn't have a lot to add.
If this post was meant to inspire interesting conversation about 9/11 on the anniversary, there have got to be better ways of doing that than discussing the movie versions.
If, on the other hand, this is just about finding something that mentions September 11th and being the first to post it, well then, on with the show!
posted by hermitosis at 5:26 AM on September 11, 2006
If this post was meant to inspire interesting conversation about 9/11 on the anniversary, there have got to be better ways of doing that than discussing the movie versions.
If, on the other hand, this is just about finding something that mentions September 11th and being the first to post it, well then, on with the show!
posted by hermitosis at 5:26 AM on September 11, 2006
Two crappy posts in a row. NEVAR FORGET!
posted by languagehat at 5:41 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by languagehat at 5:41 AM on September 11, 2006
This article is certainly more than about two movies. Besides, movies have a lot to do with how people see history other wise why would the Clinton folks be so upset with the way ABC is presenting these events.
posted by hard rain at 5:51 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by hard rain at 5:51 AM on September 11, 2006
I'll be watching the CNN thing. Should make my work day more interesting. thirteenkiller
Since when did you start signing your posts?! WHERE HAS THE REAL thirteenkiller GONE?!?!
posted by public at 6:17 AM on September 11, 2006
Since when did you start signing your posts?! WHERE HAS THE REAL thirteenkiller GONE?!?!
posted by public at 6:17 AM on September 11, 2006
The best movie about 9/11 is still Munich. Zizek's great, though--The Pervert's Guide to Cinema is a riot.
posted by muckster at 6:17 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by muckster at 6:17 AM on September 11, 2006
Since when did you start signing your posts?! WHERE HAS THE REAL thirteenkiller GONE?!?!
This thread was unfortunately edited. It was a lot more interesting when everyone was signing their posts.
posted by Dr-Baa at 6:22 AM on September 11, 2006
This thread was unfortunately edited. It was a lot more interesting when everyone was signing their posts.
posted by Dr-Baa at 6:22 AM on September 11, 2006
Does 9/11 mean we don't need to use punctuation in our FPPs? Readability be DAMNED in the face of TERRORIST THREATS.
posted by secret about box at 7:25 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by secret about box at 7:25 AM on September 11, 2006
what do you mean edited?
Well, "edited" in the words-being-removed sense.
by whom?
An individual with moderating abilities on the site would be my guess.
posted by Dr-Baa at 12:03 PM on September 11, 2006
Well, "edited" in the words-being-removed sense.
by whom?
An individual with moderating abilities on the site would be my guess.
posted by Dr-Baa at 12:03 PM on September 11, 2006
hermitosis: "If this post was meant to inspire interesting conversation about 9/11 on the anniversary, there have got to be better ways of doing that than discussing the movie versions."
If you'd rtfa, you'd know that the article isn't really about the movies. It mentions the movies in the title because Slavoj Zizek is a 'cultural philosopher,' but they're really just a jumping-off point. Questions discussed include: "What, then, is the historical meaning of 9/11?" It's pretty broad, and I think it makes for an interesting post, although Zizek and other related philosophers have written things that could have been concluded.
As for Zizek's ideas, I think they're interesting, and somewhat compelling. His statement that 9/11 shattered our new utopianism of liberal democracy seems true to me. But his claim that it was a return to 'real history' I don't understand (what is 'real history?') What's more, I have a feeling that you can't really talk about what 9/11 was about without at least beginning to talk about Islam and the Middle East.
posted by koeselitz at 12:41 PM on September 11, 2006
If you'd rtfa, you'd know that the article isn't really about the movies. It mentions the movies in the title because Slavoj Zizek is a 'cultural philosopher,' but they're really just a jumping-off point. Questions discussed include: "What, then, is the historical meaning of 9/11?" It's pretty broad, and I think it makes for an interesting post, although Zizek and other related philosophers have written things that could have been concluded.
As for Zizek's ideas, I think they're interesting, and somewhat compelling. His statement that 9/11 shattered our new utopianism of liberal democracy seems true to me. But his claim that it was a return to 'real history' I don't understand (what is 'real history?') What's more, I have a feeling that you can't really talk about what 9/11 was about without at least beginning to talk about Islam and the Middle East.
posted by koeselitz at 12:41 PM on September 11, 2006
Having most certainly had time to read this page-and-a-half essay before posting, I stand by what I said: nothing to add, really.
I feel like I've been hearing these kinds of thoughts ever since 2001. Almost every assertion in this essay is one that people have had time to consider exhaustively by now. Some biased examples:
"Thus, the lesson is that, in combating terror, it is more crucial than ever for state politics to be democratically transparent."
"This is where the problem begins. The omnipresent invisible threat of terror legitimises the all-too-visible protective measures of defence."
"But the problem is that the US is not in a state of war. For the large majority, daily life goes on and war remains the business of state agencies. The distinction between the state of war and peace is blurred. We are entering a time in which a state of peace itself can be at the same time a state of emergency."
As someone who has been awake and online for the last five years (as most of us have been), all of this is a real yawn. Maybe Zizek is brilliant, but it sounds like he phoned this one in. There's nothing here that a bright college student couldn't have written in the spring of 2002.
Which ties into my criticism of this being a haphazard post with nothing new to say, and which was tossed out first thing this morning as part of the anticipated feeding frenzy on all things septembereleventhian. Forgive us if it takes something a little more substantial than a post whose one link is to a brief lo-cal editorial to get us all gooey.
At this point I'd rather spend today feeling peaceful, but in a pinch I'd rather be offended than bored.
posted by hermitosis at 4:00 PM on September 11, 2006
I feel like I've been hearing these kinds of thoughts ever since 2001. Almost every assertion in this essay is one that people have had time to consider exhaustively by now. Some biased examples:
"Thus, the lesson is that, in combating terror, it is more crucial than ever for state politics to be democratically transparent."
"This is where the problem begins. The omnipresent invisible threat of terror legitimises the all-too-visible protective measures of defence."
"But the problem is that the US is not in a state of war. For the large majority, daily life goes on and war remains the business of state agencies. The distinction between the state of war and peace is blurred. We are entering a time in which a state of peace itself can be at the same time a state of emergency."
As someone who has been awake and online for the last five years (as most of us have been), all of this is a real yawn. Maybe Zizek is brilliant, but it sounds like he phoned this one in. There's nothing here that a bright college student couldn't have written in the spring of 2002.
Which ties into my criticism of this being a haphazard post with nothing new to say, and which was tossed out first thing this morning as part of the anticipated feeding frenzy on all things septembereleventhian. Forgive us if it takes something a little more substantial than a post whose one link is to a brief lo-cal editorial to get us all gooey.
At this point I'd rather spend today feeling peaceful, but in a pinch I'd rather be offended than bored.
posted by hermitosis at 4:00 PM on September 11, 2006
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posted by hermitosis at 4:57 AM on September 11, 2006