The Computer Generated Song Hye Kyo
February 22, 2007 7:33 AM Subscribe
The making of the Korean Actress "Song Hye Kyo" by Max Edwin Wahyudi. Computer graphics have come a hell of a long way.
More about the so-called "Uncanny Valley." This model of Song Hye Kyo looks pretty good -- but the smile is where it still doesn't quite work. Until we can accurately replicate expressions of emotion in CGI, we'll never overcome the uncanny valley problem.
posted by armage at 7:36 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by armage at 7:36 AM on February 22, 2007
I was reading about this on Gizmodo and I loved (or rather, was enraged) reading all the various comments -
Oh, I totally knew it was CGI. The hair isn't quite right. AND THE SMILE. AND THE WAY THE EARRINGS REFLECT THE LIGHT.
Yeah, you guys are like fucking Columbo.
Please.
posted by kbanas at 7:38 AM on February 22, 2007
Oh, I totally knew it was CGI. The hair isn't quite right. AND THE SMILE. AND THE WAY THE EARRINGS REFLECT THE LIGHT.
Yeah, you guys are like fucking Columbo.
Please.
posted by kbanas at 7:38 AM on February 22, 2007
I don't think you would notice the supposed defect in the smile if the images were presented as real rather than CG. I think you're seeing an uncanny valley in part because you're looking for it.
posted by grobstein at 7:39 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by grobstein at 7:39 AM on February 22, 2007
Sure, it's pretty good, but I was disappointed to discover that he had created only still images. It's a hell of lot easier to make good still images than a convincing animated sequence. As he says: "After that, it's all about tweaking the model to match the ref pic."
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:42 AM on February 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:42 AM on February 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yeah, you're just yodeling up the uncanny valley.
posted by isopraxis at 7:42 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by isopraxis at 7:42 AM on February 22, 2007
I'm pretty sure this is a double, but the server those links point to isn't serving up the goods so I can't prove it. I've definitely seen these pictures before, though, and it's unlikely I got them elsewhere.
posted by DU at 7:43 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by DU at 7:43 AM on February 22, 2007
Oh and the hair *is* wack. Look at it--it's semi-transparent and has no weight. (Or maybe that's how her hair really is.)
posted by DU at 7:45 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by DU at 7:45 AM on February 22, 2007
Actually, that "finished one" doesn't look very convincing, and something would have seemed off even if I didn't know what. The other pics, OTOH, look great. But yeah, what monju_bosatsu said.
posted by dreamsign at 7:47 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by dreamsign at 7:47 AM on February 22, 2007
Yeah, you guys are like fucking Columbo.
Well, kbanas, I gotta be honest wit ya, sir...my wife's the kinda person whose the first person t'pick up on to these things. So y'see, sir, after awhile, it becomes second nature. Unless you're like Sherlock over dere - ever met him? He's a nice fella, sir, and he knows a lotta things about cigars I didn't even know myself!
posted by Smart Dalek at 7:48 AM on February 22, 2007
Well, kbanas, I gotta be honest wit ya, sir...my wife's the kinda person whose the first person t'pick up on to these things. So y'see, sir, after awhile, it becomes second nature. Unless you're like Sherlock over dere - ever met him? He's a nice fella, sir, and he knows a lotta things about cigars I didn't even know myself!
posted by Smart Dalek at 7:48 AM on February 22, 2007
I don't think you would notice the supposed defect in the smile if the images were presented as real rather than CG. I think you're seeing an uncanny valley in part because you're looking for it.
No, I would. When first saw this photo last year, it was on one of those "Which of these is real and which isn't" sort of pages. The lines around her mouth when she smiles aren't quite right to me. I can't put a finer point on it than that -- but it does jump out at me.
Perhaps I've been looking at too many photos of pretty Korean girls...
posted by armage at 7:53 AM on February 22, 2007
No, I would. When first saw this photo last year, it was on one of those "Which of these is real and which isn't" sort of pages. The lines around her mouth when she smiles aren't quite right to me. I can't put a finer point on it than that -- but it does jump out at me.
Perhaps I've been looking at too many photos of pretty Korean girls...
posted by armage at 7:53 AM on February 22, 2007
yes computer graphics have come a long way ,like to see any of the above do any better
posted by baker dave at 8:12 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by baker dave at 8:12 AM on February 22, 2007
I just called a Chinese friend over to look, who recognised the actress and was astounded that it was CGI, so I'd have to say good job.
posted by Abiezer at 8:14 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by Abiezer at 8:14 AM on February 22, 2007
Yeah, but can she act?
posted by disgruntled at 8:16 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by disgruntled at 8:16 AM on February 22, 2007
I figured there would be a lot of "that's obviously fake" comments -- this is MetaFilter after all and everyone here is so awesome.
posted by chunking express at 8:17 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by chunking express at 8:17 AM on February 22, 2007
ah, but which one of us is running on a Pentium IV?
posted by concreteforest at 8:19 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by concreteforest at 8:19 AM on February 22, 2007
yes computer graphics have come a long way ,like to see any of the above do any better
Always a stellar standard.
Never sue for malpractice unless you could have done a better job of removing that spleen yourself.
posted by dreamsign at 8:23 AM on February 22, 2007
Always a stellar standard.
Never sue for malpractice unless you could have done a better job of removing that spleen yourself.
posted by dreamsign at 8:23 AM on February 22, 2007
And only now do I realize that those "other photos" that I said looked great are... in fact photos of the actress. Myeah.
posted by dreamsign at 8:26 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by dreamsign at 8:26 AM on February 22, 2007
I just looked in a mirror and it's obviously fake - my hair isn't right and there's something seriously wrong with my nose.
posted by CynicalKnight at 8:30 AM on February 22, 2007 [6 favorites]
posted by CynicalKnight at 8:30 AM on February 22, 2007 [6 favorites]
I think it's clear, though, that we're starting to pull out of the uncanny valley, because now people disagree about it. Back in the old days, everyone would agree that some CG image was "somehow creepy". Now you have some people saying "nope, not creepy", and others saying "yes it is!". That's a big change.
That, and some people seem to be parsing "uncanny valley" as just meaning "you can tell it's fake". The idea of "uncanny valley" is not about whether something is mistakable for the real thing or not, but about how, as you get closer and closer to photorealistic, things start to get creepy. If something is really close to photorealistic, but you can tell it's actually CG, but you're not creeped out, it's no longer in the uncanny valley.
posted by Bugbread at 8:34 AM on February 22, 2007 [4 favorites]
That, and some people seem to be parsing "uncanny valley" as just meaning "you can tell it's fake". The idea of "uncanny valley" is not about whether something is mistakable for the real thing or not, but about how, as you get closer and closer to photorealistic, things start to get creepy. If something is really close to photorealistic, but you can tell it's actually CG, but you're not creeped out, it's no longer in the uncanny valley.
posted by Bugbread at 8:34 AM on February 22, 2007 [4 favorites]
A good film about the Uncanny Valley, Sex Dolls, and CG Porno is a Perfect Fake.
posted by chunking express at 8:39 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by chunking express at 8:39 AM on February 22, 2007
Thing is bugbread, Mori was talking about appearance and motion. We'll get past the valley a lot quicker on stills than we will in anything animated, and in CGI a lot sooner than in robotics.
posted by dreamsign at 8:44 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by dreamsign at 8:44 AM on February 22, 2007
DU praising a non-descript youtube post. chunking trolling his own thread... this is post is bizarro awesome!
posted by basicchannel at 8:48 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by basicchannel at 8:48 AM on February 22, 2007
bug, the 'uncanny valley' is the feeling of revulsion and wrongness to a moving CGI actor. It hasn't applied to still images for ages. The Final Fantasy movie, for instance, has great stills, even though most people would put it very firmly in the Valley.
It's not that they don't look right... they've looked very good for some time now. But as soon as they start animating, they turn from good still pictures into zombies. They don't move right. It looks like a puppet with strings being pulled, not a human, and it bothers people.
As still images go, though, this is a remarkable effort. I think it's very unlikely I'd ever know it was CGI if I hadn't been told. And it's not like the guy painted it, this is a 3D model, an enormously harder project. I can't even imagine how much time it must have taken.
That guy must be a serious fan. :)
posted by Malor at 8:49 AM on February 22, 2007
It's not that they don't look right... they've looked very good for some time now. But as soon as they start animating, they turn from good still pictures into zombies. They don't move right. It looks like a puppet with strings being pulled, not a human, and it bothers people.
As still images go, though, this is a remarkable effort. I think it's very unlikely I'd ever know it was CGI if I hadn't been told. And it's not like the guy painted it, this is a 3D model, an enormously harder project. I can't even imagine how much time it must have taken.
That guy must be a serious fan. :)
posted by Malor at 8:49 AM on February 22, 2007
I linked to this from this. A while ago. Also, they turned the JPG compression way to high on these images, and ruined them. Really annoying.
posted by delmoi at 9:06 AM on February 22, 2007
posted by delmoi at 9:06 AM on February 22, 2007
Since when is it trolling to make fun of MetaFilter users on MetaFilter? Fuckers.
Delmoi that's crazy as well. I look forward to k-pop inspired video games.
posted by chunking express at 9:11 AM on February 22, 2007
Delmoi that's crazy as well. I look forward to k-pop inspired video games.
posted by chunking express at 9:11 AM on February 22, 2007
Definitely talent involved here, but in the end it's still a dude making a fake chick with a computer.
Which sometimes seems like 90% of the reason these things were invented.
posted by gottabefunky at 10:06 AM on February 22, 2007
Which sometimes seems like 90% of the reason these things were invented.
posted by gottabefunky at 10:06 AM on February 22, 2007
I love her in Full House. I'm mighty impressed with the quality of the image.
Sorry, nothing else to add.
posted by eatdonuts at 10:17 AM on February 22, 2007
Sorry, nothing else to add.
posted by eatdonuts at 10:17 AM on February 22, 2007
DU : I'm pretty sure this is a double, but the server those links point to isn't serving up the goods so I can't prove it.
Topically but not literally a double.
posted by Gyan at 10:31 AM on February 22, 2007
Topically but not literally a double.
posted by Gyan at 10:31 AM on February 22, 2007
that final render is amazing. I probably wouldnt have known it wasnt real, for a while.
Staring at it, something doesnt seem right. I noticed the hair over the ear and the shadows in the nostril. Its when things are too perfect that they look wrong.
posted by subaruwrx at 12:19 PM on February 22, 2007
Staring at it, something doesnt seem right. I noticed the hair over the ear and the shadows in the nostril. Its when things are too perfect that they look wrong.
posted by subaruwrx at 12:19 PM on February 22, 2007
Yeah, the motion thing is the crusher. I didn't mean to imply otherwise, though by omission I did.
posted by Bugbread at 3:32 PM on February 22, 2007
posted by Bugbread at 3:32 PM on February 22, 2007
Looks like a zombie.
Well, when you'd been coerced into signing an entertainment-slave contract and been forced to blow gangsters for career advancement, you'd look like a zombie too.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:03 PM on February 22, 2007
Well, when you'd been coerced into signing an entertainment-slave contract and been forced to blow gangsters for career advancement, you'd look like a zombie too.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:03 PM on February 22, 2007
It's easy to pick out things that are "off" in the big image, but if you look at the small artifacted one in the grid along with all the source pics, you're just lying if you say you can tell.
posted by juv3nal at 10:53 PM on February 22, 2007
posted by juv3nal at 10:53 PM on February 22, 2007
Wow. I suppose it's not a real big surprise, but she's got fucking perfect eyelids.
posted by avriette at 1:46 AM on February 23, 2007
posted by avriette at 1:46 AM on February 23, 2007
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posted by chunking express at 7:34 AM on February 22, 2007