"If people do not accept our position on creationism, they do not have to watch."

August 28, 2007 8:42 AM

Guess who's censoring references to evolution out of David Attenborough documentaries? That's right, the Dutch. See the differences; here's a detailed write-up by a Dutch biologist and documentary enthusiast comparing the two versions side-by-side (in Dutch).
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (41 comments total)

For clarity: EO ["Evangelical Broadcast"] is one of The Netherlands' many public broadcasters entitled by law to provide broadcasts tailored to reflect their societal identity. In this case, various episodes of the series were altered, and one was omitted entirely.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:42 AM on August 28, 2007

All else aside, sir, I have to say that "Guess who's censoring references to evolution out of David Attenborough documentaries? That's right, the Dutch." makes me giggle.
posted by cortex at 8:46 AM on August 28, 2007

There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.
posted by GuyZero at 8:47 AM on August 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

All else aside, sir, I have to say that "Guess who's censoring references to evolution out of David Attenborough documentaries? That's right, the Dutch." makes me giggle.

All else aside? How can there be anything else after that kind of a lead in. Well played.
posted by OmieWise at 8:53 AM on August 28, 2007

This is not so gezellig.
posted by aerotive at 8:54 AM on August 28, 2007

First they came for the evolutionists, but I said nothing; because I thought being sent to the Dutch Ovens would be a funny way to go.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:58 AM on August 28, 2007 [3 favorites]

Where's your liberal-Low-Countries secular humanist civic perfection now, Hollanders?
Still not forgiven you for the Raid on the Medway
posted by Abiezer at 8:59 AM on August 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

I don't see how you can call one evangelical broadcaster "The Dutch", but whatever.
posted by delmoi at 9:03 AM on August 28, 2007

The Dutch, I knew it. Even when it wasnt the Dutch, I knew it was the Dutch!
posted by damn dirty ape at 9:03 AM on August 28, 2007

First they killed all our Elm trees, because the wood was no good for making shoes....
posted by Floydd at 9:08 AM on August 28, 2007

I don't really have a problem with the Dutch broadcaster in this issue - they should be able to broadcast whatever crap they want. The responsible party here is the BBC who should be ashamed of themselves, this utterly betrays their educational remit.
posted by silence at 9:11 AM on August 28, 2007

So a fundie group with ties to public money bought exclusive rights to and then altered content that disagreed with their views? Stop the presses!

Seriously, information warfare is nothing new. This shit happens under the initiatives of "King George" here in the U.S. all the time. The only way to defeat it is to educate, then continually reinforce.

Propaganda vs. Science. At least people are fighting for the truth on this one...
posted by mystyk at 9:11 AM on August 28, 2007

And having now read the links, it does seem shoddy of the BBC if the only licensed Dutch version will be put out by these propagandists. I realise plenty of Dutch people will have access to and understand the English-language original, but still.
posted by Abiezer at 9:13 AM on August 28, 2007

Exactly what silence said. The scandal here is that the BBC sold the broadcast rights to this group knowing they were going to do this.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:15 AM on August 28, 2007

There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

I actually had an ultra-liberal, uber-PC, multi-cultural, social working, anti-racist girlfriend who, for some reason, disliked asians. Not some asians, not some guy who happend to be asian, but all N-Billion of them.
She didn't see this as a contradiction.
posted by signal at 9:19 AM on August 28, 2007

"I actually had an ultra-liberal, uber-PC, multi-cultural, social working, anti-racist girlfriend who, for some reason, disliked asians. Not some asians, not some guy who happend to be asian, but all N-Billion of them."

I saw an example of this sort of thing, with regard to Asians also, among some supposedly enlightened Canadians in Ontario who were, as they often pointed out, not racists like most Americans. And talk to Europeans about the Roma—tolerance and anti-racism are thrown out the window.

People are people. 90% of what 90% of people claim to believe are not actual beliefs—they are little badges that signify social affiliation. That's why consistency isn't required and inconsistency isn't noticed.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:29 AM on August 28, 2007 [4 favorites]

The Dutch are bad and all, but I'm sick of the Swiss.

Got a problem with that, Belgium?
posted by WinnipegDragon at 9:33 AM on August 28, 2007

And talk to Europeans about the Roma—tolerance and anti-racism are thrown out the window.
And the Turks about the Kurds. And the Japanese about the Vietnamese, the latter about the Chinese, etc.etc.

I have a friend who adopted a little girl from Bulgaria. Having a Russian father consigned her to foreign adoption. (Her mother couldn't take care of her but the orphanage would have found her a local home if her father were Bulgarian.) Who knew?
posted by etaoin at 9:35 AM on August 28, 2007

For those who may not get the reference, it's not actually my opinion, but the opinion of my good friend Nigel Powers.
posted by GuyZero at 9:36 AM on August 28, 2007

the BBC who should be ashamed of themselves, this utterly betrays their educational remit

Does the educational remit of the BBC extend past the shores of the UK? Surely they're only bound by a duty to the British public (who help fund them via the annual television license) not other countries.


it does seem shoddy of the BBC if the only licensed Dutch version will be put out by these propagandists

Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't say anywhere the BBC necessarily knew about this beforehand. If someone edits their programmes you'd expect they'd be informed and / or pissed about it, but it's not like they delivered it to the Dutch channel edited-to-order.

From the 3rd comment on the 1st link...
Its worth pointing out that some 80% of Dutch houses have cable, and the most basic cable package includes BBC 1&2. Failing that they can always catch it on Discovery which regularly shows BBC stuff.


That said, this is a pretty sad move to censor out parts of a natural history doc on religious grounds. I guess they have less of a problem taking the 'see no evil' maxim from our monkey / ape cousins than the idea we might be descended from a common ancestor!
posted by stumcg at 9:41 AM on August 28, 2007

Let's keep all this in perspective, shall we? The EO is the Evangelische Omroep, or Evangelical Broadcaster.

No one besides the christian fundis take them seriously.

That said, cutting up one of Attenborough's works should be a capital crime, no matter what your delusions.
posted by Djinh at 9:51 AM on August 28, 2007

from now on we call them freedom ovens!
posted by bruce at 9:51 AM on August 28, 2007

David Attenborough on the 'War on Science', previously...

"It's so fundamentally against every scientific principle you can think of, that to put it in the same... bracket... is to seriously confuse thinking"
(Google Video link... statement quoted is about 48s in)

Someone should let him know about EO's 'tweaks' I think.
posted by stumcg at 9:55 AM on August 28, 2007

Got a problem with that, Belgium?

No need for profanity, you cricketing Krikkiter.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:01 AM on August 28, 2007

Seems like a pretty clear violation of the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works §12 unless they have the permission of the BBC to alter the works (which somehow I doubt).
posted by fydfyd at 10:05 AM on August 28, 2007

Here's my favorite bit from the links

Director Henk Hagoort told Trouw that editing was normal in bought-in programmes. 'That also happens in drama series if, for example, there is a lot of swearing'.

Well, that clears it up. Evolution isn't an opposing viewpoint to creationism. It isn't a theory shored up by heaps of empirical data. It's just offensive content, like tits or drama characters who say "fuck" a lot. Of course we've gotta snip that out! Think of the children!
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:33 AM on August 28, 2007

signal: I actually had an ultra-liberal, uber-PC, multi-cultural, social working, anti-racist girlfriend who, for some reason, disliked asians. Not some asians, not some guy who happend to be asian, but all N-Billion of them. She didn't see this as a contradiction.

"We've secretly conditioned our uber-PC test subject to replace every allusion to 'White Males' with "Asians." Let's see if anyone notices the difference!"
posted by kid ichorous at 10:42 AM on August 28, 2007

The greater disgrace is that there is no mention in any formal teaching of science or history that points to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. A pox on all their houses!
posted by ZachsMind at 11:58 AM on August 28, 2007

And whaddaya know -- I like tits, fucking and evolution!
posted by nebulawindphone at 12:44 PM on August 28, 2007

"And talk to Europeans about the Roma—tolerance and anti-racism are thrown out the window."

I was amused by signs next to Italian highway rest-stops that read, "DISTRUST THE GYPSIES!" I wish I had a photo of them.
posted by klangklangston at 1:11 PM on August 28, 2007

Yes! Yes! Down with those double dutch speaking, dutch crossing, dutch treating, dutch courageous, dutch going, dutch fucking double-damned Dutch! Down with us!

Gnfti, I'm afraid it will be hard to impress our US friends with our few marginal christians.


Btw wanna meetup in NL? Visit the Metatalk post on the upcoming Netherlands meetup.
posted by jouke at 1:18 PM on August 28, 2007

There's a meetup in my nether lands and everyone's invited.
posted by cortex at 1:35 PM on August 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

I guess you don't have any dykes there
posted by jouke at 1:47 PM on August 28, 2007

they're positively gushing, actually
posted by cortex at 1:50 PM on August 28, 2007

can i put my finger in one of them?
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:00 PM on August 28, 2007

~ fin ~
posted by cortex at 2:22 PM on August 28, 2007

[NOT FINLANDIST]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:24 PM on August 28, 2007

Abiezer, that was one of our finest hours. Thank you for remembering your utter defeat.
That admiral, Michiel de Ruijter, is still our top zeeheld (sea hero).
One could make a good Hollywood story out of that.
posted by jouke at 3:52 PM on August 28, 2007

I've got no problem with the Dutch. It's those swarthy shifty Belgian fuckers you have to be wary of.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:47 PM on August 28, 2007

In Science magazine
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:50 AM on August 29, 2007

"I've got no problem with the Dutch. It's those swarthy shifty Belgian fuckers you have to be wary of."

It's both. Stupid Flanders.
posted by klangklangston at 9:31 AM on August 29, 2007