June 11, 2001
5:50 AM Subscribe
So, after being out of the saddle for so many years, apparently all George needed was a good editor.
Presenting: Episode I.I : The Phantom Edit
link via Ghost in the Machine
Presenting: Episode I.I : The Phantom Edit
link via Ghost in the Machine
Am I the only person who genuinely liked that stupid movie?!
The armchair quarterbacking gets up my ass.
posted by dong_resin at 6:06 AM on June 11, 2001
The armchair quarterbacking gets up my ass.
posted by dong_resin at 6:06 AM on June 11, 2001
"The Internet is a new medium, it's all about doing things like that," said Lucas, who added that it gives people a new creative outlet. "I haven't seen it. I would like to."
This is the part I liked - Lucas is an extraordinarily intelligent man and his recognition that he's created something larger than anything he could have dreamed of on his own is due in no small part to the audience who, quite literally, participate. Sure, I found Jar-Jar Binks a little over the top; then again, I thought Chewbacca was over the top and my seven year old nephew thinks both of them are the cool, so, what do I know? Just keep repeating to yourselves, "It's only a movie... it's only a movie... it's only a movie..."
posted by m.polo at 6:28 AM on June 11, 2001
This is the part I liked - Lucas is an extraordinarily intelligent man and his recognition that he's created something larger than anything he could have dreamed of on his own is due in no small part to the audience who, quite literally, participate. Sure, I found Jar-Jar Binks a little over the top; then again, I thought Chewbacca was over the top and my seven year old nephew thinks both of them are the cool, so, what do I know? Just keep repeating to yourselves, "It's only a movie... it's only a movie... it's only a movie..."
posted by m.polo at 6:28 AM on June 11, 2001
I really enjoyed the Phantom menace - even Jar-Jar didn't annoy me. It's a kids movie, and if grown up Star Wars geeks enjoy it thats a bonus
posted by twistedonion at 6:33 AM on June 11, 2001
posted by twistedonion at 6:33 AM on June 11, 2001
I really enjoyed the Phantom menace - even Jar-Jar didn't annoy me. It's a kids movie, and if grown up Star Wars geeks enjoy it thats a bonus
Well, there's little point in debating the merits of a several year old film. All I know is that I know plently of people who loved the first three SW movies but loathed this one - if for no reason than the gaping plot holes and the contradictions with the other movies.
posted by ljromanoff at 6:57 AM on June 11, 2001
Well, there's little point in debating the merits of a several year old film. All I know is that I know plently of people who loved the first three SW movies but loathed this one - if for no reason than the gaping plot holes and the contradictions with the other movies.
posted by ljromanoff at 6:57 AM on June 11, 2001
i wonder if one of the main reasons many people loved the first 3 and hated the last one is that we've grown up. i saw ANH when i was 5 in the drive in. a lot of these things slipped in under our taste radar. now that we're older and wiser, we see more of the blemishes in something like Phantom Menace. i think we can go back and see them in the first 3, too, if we choose. eg, ESB is the best of the first three because the plot isn't encumbered with the need to blow up the death star. PM is similar. Naboo, Tatooine, Coruscant, and back to Naboo. too busy.
posted by Sean Meade at 7:49 AM on June 11, 2001
posted by Sean Meade at 7:49 AM on June 11, 2001
i wonder if one of the main reasons many people loved the first 3 and hated the last one is that we've grown up.
That's a fair argument, but if you compare reviews of the first three to the fourth, you will see that the first three are much better reviewed. Presumably, all the critics in the 70's and early 80's were not kids, so they weren't basing their opinions on their young age.
Plus, as an adult I can watch PM and give you a long list of things wrong with it. I can now also give you a short list of what's wrong with ROTJ (not enough Luke & Vader, too much everyone else), but ESB and ANH are still great films.
posted by ljromanoff at 8:15 AM on June 11, 2001
That's a fair argument, but if you compare reviews of the first three to the fourth, you will see that the first three are much better reviewed. Presumably, all the critics in the 70's and early 80's were not kids, so they weren't basing their opinions on their young age.
Plus, as an adult I can watch PM and give you a long list of things wrong with it. I can now also give you a short list of what's wrong with ROTJ (not enough Luke & Vader, too much everyone else), but ESB and ANH are still great films.
posted by ljromanoff at 8:15 AM on June 11, 2001
Dangit, someone beat me to it. We were talking about doing this ourselves. "with the new advances in digital editing and enhancements...." oh well.
posted by tomplus2 at 8:16 AM on June 11, 2001
posted by tomplus2 at 8:16 AM on June 11, 2001
Just keep repeating to yourselves, "It's only a movie... it's only a movie... it's only a movie..."
BLASPHEMER!
I didn't hate Phantom Menace. I thought it was better than Jedi, at least. Regardless of your feelings about Jar-Jar, you must admit that the Ewoks were pretty cheesy. I think that both the Pod race and the saberfight with Darth Maul are as exciting as any action sequence in the first trilogy.
posted by jpoulos at 8:35 AM on June 11, 2001
BLASPHEMER!
I didn't hate Phantom Menace. I thought it was better than Jedi, at least. Regardless of your feelings about Jar-Jar, you must admit that the Ewoks were pretty cheesy. I think that both the Pod race and the saberfight with Darth Maul are as exciting as any action sequence in the first trilogy.
posted by jpoulos at 8:35 AM on June 11, 2001
the podrace, that thing was way to long, reminded me of an actual NASCAR race, you can go out to lunch and not miss a thing. It was the perfect time for a popcorn run.
posted by Mick at 8:42 AM on June 11, 2001
posted by Mick at 8:42 AM on June 11, 2001
You can get your hands on this: "'Phantom Edit' Hits the Streets"
Check out their "Edit" index for updated info.
posted by jennak at 9:36 AM on June 11, 2001
Check out their "Edit" index for updated info.
posted by jennak at 9:36 AM on June 11, 2001
PM was probably one of the most difficult films to make. Legions of fans who have grown up AND they've been waiting for over a decade! Expectations for the film were fierce. Nothing could have lived up to that.
That being said, the film was mediocre at best, but then, in watching ANH again recently, the dialoge has that same cheesy ring to it and the FX are light years behind what we have now. The reason ANH was well reviewed was because it was the first of its kind - the followig movies were influenced by it, so they didn't have that same fresh feel. ESB was an excellent follow up - it kinda slapped people in the face, ROTJ wasn't as good, but it provided a reasonable ending.
To me, the reason PM isn't universally liked is because it is lacking the perspective the next two movies will give. The sequels are key. In their light, PM could be percieved differently and our opinions could change.
I enjoyed PM because I had that mindset, even though I disliked Jar Jar and Anikin's cheesy dialogue. If the next two movies suck, PM will suck too, but if they're good, PM might be seen as a good start:) (wew, sorry that was so long)
posted by tallman at 9:53 AM on June 11, 2001
That being said, the film was mediocre at best, but then, in watching ANH again recently, the dialoge has that same cheesy ring to it and the FX are light years behind what we have now. The reason ANH was well reviewed was because it was the first of its kind - the followig movies were influenced by it, so they didn't have that same fresh feel. ESB was an excellent follow up - it kinda slapped people in the face, ROTJ wasn't as good, but it provided a reasonable ending.
To me, the reason PM isn't universally liked is because it is lacking the perspective the next two movies will give. The sequels are key. In their light, PM could be percieved differently and our opinions could change.
I enjoyed PM because I had that mindset, even though I disliked Jar Jar and Anikin's cheesy dialogue. If the next two movies suck, PM will suck too, but if they're good, PM might be seen as a good start:) (wew, sorry that was so long)
posted by tallman at 9:53 AM on June 11, 2001
I think the strength of any Star Wars film is directly related to the strength of the villian. Darth and the Emperor are truly nasty in ANH and ESB. Darth Maul, on the other hand, never gets it together in PM. He screws up the first chance he gets. Later, he fights for a while, which is great, and then... dies.
From what I've heard, ANH was not originally intended to be a kid's movie. Even if Lucas realized what his primary audience was before making ESB, he didn't let it get in the way of some good old fashioned fear, darkness and despair. Whereas he injected kids, little bears and Jar-Jar into Jedi and PM.
posted by D at 10:03 AM on June 11, 2001
From what I've heard, ANH was not originally intended to be a kid's movie. Even if Lucas realized what his primary audience was before making ESB, he didn't let it get in the way of some good old fashioned fear, darkness and despair. Whereas he injected kids, little bears and Jar-Jar into Jedi and PM.
posted by D at 10:03 AM on June 11, 2001
I agree with tallman.
Phantom Menace on its own is not the best movie in the world; but Phantom Menace is the first episode in a 6 episode series and was never meant to be singled out from the rest of the Star Wars series. If Phantom Menace were not a movie standing on its own (which it certianly is not), but the first volume in a 6 volume story it would not receive so much criticism. While it might be a boring volume that some readers would rather skim over to get to the better parts, people would realise the necessity within the bigger picture of the story.
(Sarcasm Alert) Although if we were talking about Lord of the Rings, I would have to say that the Fellowship of the Ring sucks, yet Return of the King was phenomenal!
posted by crog at 11:03 AM on June 11, 2001
Phantom Menace on its own is not the best movie in the world; but Phantom Menace is the first episode in a 6 episode series and was never meant to be singled out from the rest of the Star Wars series. If Phantom Menace were not a movie standing on its own (which it certianly is not), but the first volume in a 6 volume story it would not receive so much criticism. While it might be a boring volume that some readers would rather skim over to get to the better parts, people would realise the necessity within the bigger picture of the story.
(Sarcasm Alert) Although if we were talking about Lord of the Rings, I would have to say that the Fellowship of the Ring sucks, yet Return of the King was phenomenal!
posted by crog at 11:03 AM on June 11, 2001
Actually, it's The Hobbit that bears the stigma of 'first volume'.
In another interesting parallel, it too was written with children and it has slight continuity problems (terminology and the like) with the trilogy.
posted by Octaviuz at 11:09 AM on June 11, 2001
In another interesting parallel, it too was written with children and it has slight continuity problems (terminology and the like) with the trilogy.
posted by Octaviuz at 11:09 AM on June 11, 2001
Episode I didn't suck because it's the first part of six. It sucked because Lucas can't direct actors.
Actually, he used to be able to .American Grafitti was fine, and Star Wars ... perhaps he lucked out, or maybe we just have to admit he was using his best material. Maybe he forgot how over the last 20-odd years.
I remember being one of those who thought that TESB was a low-key failure, but now I recognize it as perhaps even more satisfying than ANH, since Leigh Brackett's contributions to the screenplay and Irvin Kershner's direction work fantastically to give needed dimension to the characters. You'd think that Lucas would have figured out that worked pretty well.
Oct: slight continuity problems? :) Indeed, Tolkien didn't originally write LotR as a continuous follow-on from the Hobbit.
posted by dhartung at 12:08 PM on June 11, 2001
Actually, he used to be able to .American Grafitti was fine, and Star Wars ... perhaps he lucked out, or maybe we just have to admit he was using his best material. Maybe he forgot how over the last 20-odd years.
I remember being one of those who thought that TESB was a low-key failure, but now I recognize it as perhaps even more satisfying than ANH, since Leigh Brackett's contributions to the screenplay and Irvin Kershner's direction work fantastically to give needed dimension to the characters. You'd think that Lucas would have figured out that worked pretty well.
Oct: slight continuity problems? :) Indeed, Tolkien didn't originally write LotR as a continuous follow-on from the Hobbit.
posted by dhartung at 12:08 PM on June 11, 2001
dhartung: LOL. Its hard to pull a good performance out of a kid who has to say "Yipee" 3 damn times during the course of a movie.
I have to concede the point that Lucas really isn't that talented of a director, nor is he all that great at writing. He knows how to construct a decent story, but he should leave the mundane stuff like dialogue to someone else. It frustrates me to no end that Lucas insists on directing and writing the new movies with little or no contributions (like Leigh Brackett's, as you mentioned) from anyone else. But then its his stuff, and he can do what he wants with it.
My point is that PM will be percieved as a better film if the next two films are good, even though it is flawed. Star Wars (ANH) is flawed as well, but it has this intangible glory that can't be denied - and it is percieved as a part of the whole series.
posted by tallman at 12:49 PM on June 11, 2001
I have to concede the point that Lucas really isn't that talented of a director, nor is he all that great at writing. He knows how to construct a decent story, but he should leave the mundane stuff like dialogue to someone else. It frustrates me to no end that Lucas insists on directing and writing the new movies with little or no contributions (like Leigh Brackett's, as you mentioned) from anyone else. But then its his stuff, and he can do what he wants with it.
My point is that PM will be percieved as a better film if the next two films are good, even though it is flawed. Star Wars (ANH) is flawed as well, but it has this intangible glory that can't be denied - and it is percieved as a part of the whole series.
posted by tallman at 12:49 PM on June 11, 2001
Its hard to pull a good performance out of a kid who has to say "Yipee" 3 damn times during the course of a movie.
That's supposed to be one of the big improvements in The Phantom Edit. A lot of Anakin's more inane dialoge ended up on the floor, making him look like someone worth facing down the Jedi Council for; plus, he actually looks scared enough to justify Yoda's "Fear leads to anger..." speech.
posted by harmful at 1:31 PM on June 11, 2001
That's supposed to be one of the big improvements in The Phantom Edit. A lot of Anakin's more inane dialoge ended up on the floor, making him look like someone worth facing down the Jedi Council for; plus, he actually looks scared enough to justify Yoda's "Fear leads to anger..." speech.
posted by harmful at 1:31 PM on June 11, 2001
i wonder if one of the main reasons many people loved the first 3 and hated the last one is that we've grown up.
No the first movie (the only one I liked btw) was aimed fair and square at the 14 year old market while the Phantom Menace was aimed at the 8 year old market (eight year olds buy more action figures see?) Compare the ages of Luke and Anakin and theres' your target market.
I was 14 in 1977 and it was without a doubt the coolest year. Star Wars played for 12 months straight in the cinema (and Disco and the Bee Gees were still strangers to one another).
posted by lagado at 4:27 PM on June 11, 2001
No the first movie (the only one I liked btw) was aimed fair and square at the 14 year old market while the Phantom Menace was aimed at the 8 year old market (eight year olds buy more action figures see?) Compare the ages of Luke and Anakin and theres' your target market.
I was 14 in 1977 and it was without a doubt the coolest year. Star Wars played for 12 months straight in the cinema (and Disco and the Bee Gees were still strangers to one another).
posted by lagado at 4:27 PM on June 11, 2001
THX 1138 was a tremendous film and suggests that Lucas is at his best when his work is nastier (holding out hope for the second episode).
Here is an alleged interview with the Phantom Editor.
posted by davidgentle at 9:38 PM on June 11, 2001
Here is an alleged interview with the Phantom Editor.
posted by davidgentle at 9:38 PM on June 11, 2001
Easy to miss in all the hubbub: there are actually two edits out there. One is called the Phantom Edit, which is what the interview david posted is all about. The other is The Phantom Re-Edit: Episode 1.1, and apparently is considered the "NYC" edit. It's been around over a year. The LA edit concentrates on the character of Anakin, while the NYC edit completely revamps most of the aliens, their spoken dialog, and turns Jar-Jar into an heroic, less comic character.
Interesting.
posted by dhartung at 12:51 AM on June 12, 2001
Interesting.
posted by dhartung at 12:51 AM on June 12, 2001
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posted by ljromanoff at 6:01 AM on June 11, 2001