40 Years Ago...
June 27, 2009 2:05 PM Subscribe
In the heart of Greenwich Village, New York City at 1:20 a.m. on Saturday, June 28, 1969 eight New York City police raided a gay bar, the Stonewall Inn (later deemed a National Historic Landmark). "As the police raided the bar, a crowd of four hundred patrons gathered on the street outside and watched the officers arrest the bartender, the doorman, and a few drag queens [see: police arrest reports]. The crowd, which eventually grew to an estimated 2,000 strong, was fed up."* Thus began three days of rioting and the advent of the modern gay rights movement. In honor of the Stonewall Riots, many gay pride celebrations around the world are held during the month of June, including this week(end)'s NYC Pride, celebrating 40 years of Stonewall's impact on seeking to bring civil rights to all, including the LGBT community. Happy Pride!
Charlie Rose: The Legacy of the Stonewall Riots of 1969 [video | 57:21].
Remembering Stonewall [radio documentary | 38:50]
Jim Fouratt talks with Stephen Colbert the significance of the Stonewall riots for the gay rights movement and his frustration with Barack Obama [video | 06:00].
And ...rawrrr... Love Ball Marks 'Stonewall 40' with Skin and Hippies in Times Square.
Colbert had a guest on the other night that was gay rights leader of sorts and he told the most magnificent story about the events leading up to the riot. I'm failing at finding the link but if anyone can dig it up it really was an amazingly detailed and insightful story.
posted by lazaruslong at 2:23 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by lazaruslong at 2:23 PM on June 27, 2009
Apparently the bar was a skeezy Mafia joint, because it was illegal to be gay in NYC at the time and they were the only ones willing to serve them. The windows were boarded and they had the old sliding view thing with passwords like a speakeasy. The cops came for their payoff and a "passing woman" was talking back to them. They put her in handcuffs and in the car, which they forgot to lock. She wriggled out of them and got out, and slammed herself against the car or something. Great story, if my google-fu turns it up I will link it here.
posted by lazaruslong at 2:25 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by lazaruslong at 2:25 PM on June 27, 2009
Colbert had a guest on the other night that was gay rights leader of sorts and he told the most magnificent story about the events leading up to the riot.
That would be Jim Fouratt -- and the interview is linked to in the [more inside].
posted by ericb at 2:28 PM on June 27, 2009
That would be Jim Fouratt -- and the interview is linked to in the [more inside].
posted by ericb at 2:28 PM on June 27, 2009
Another overlooked part of history - The Whitewashing of Stonewall.
posted by yeloson at 2:40 PM on June 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by yeloson at 2:40 PM on June 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
BTW -- Jim Fouratt was a founder of the Gay Liberation Front which formed during the week of the riots.
posted by ericb at 2:41 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by ericb at 2:41 PM on June 27, 2009
Hey, nice! I didn't know today was the anniversary.
I first learned about this from someone who took part in it. I did landscaping for him on weekends when I was in high school. He was this totally chill guy who upholstered furniture freelance and tended an herb garden. Would spend nearly an hour making tuna salad, because he liked to have it just so. The most exciting part of his day was listening to Rachmoninov while sipping an O'Doul's. But when I asked him what he remembered most fondly about the 60s, he brought up Stonewall, and told me it was "the best feeling in the world to show these cops, Enough is enough, we're through with your shit." I was speechless. I mean, to see this guy, who to my eyes made Jerry Garcia look like Jean-Claude Van Damme, I'd have never guessed that this would be his fondest memory of that decade. He could tell I was surprised, and chuckled, "Yup. The wrong fairy to fuck with. That's me."
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:41 PM on June 27, 2009 [18 favorites]
I first learned about this from someone who took part in it. I did landscaping for him on weekends when I was in high school. He was this totally chill guy who upholstered furniture freelance and tended an herb garden. Would spend nearly an hour making tuna salad, because he liked to have it just so. The most exciting part of his day was listening to Rachmoninov while sipping an O'Doul's. But when I asked him what he remembered most fondly about the 60s, he brought up Stonewall, and told me it was "the best feeling in the world to show these cops, Enough is enough, we're through with your shit." I was speechless. I mean, to see this guy, who to my eyes made Jerry Garcia look like Jean-Claude Van Damme, I'd have never guessed that this would be his fondest memory of that decade. He could tell I was surprised, and chuckled, "Yup. The wrong fairy to fuck with. That's me."
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:41 PM on June 27, 2009 [18 favorites]
Urgh, Pride. My city is infested with approximately half the gays in the Western hemisphere right now. I am still angry at the parade organisers for changing the route years ago. The parade used to end at Queen's Park (the provincial legislature). Now it goes down Toronto's main drag (ahem) and peters out (ahem) around the village. Missing the point, corporate sponsorship whores, missing the point.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 2:42 PM on June 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 2:42 PM on June 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Another overlooked part of history - The Whitewashing of Stonewall.
Let's hope the "T" part of LGBT (GLBT) makes much needed headway in days/weeks/months ahead.
Let's hope the "T" part of LGBT (GLBT) makes much needed headway in days/weeks/months ahead.
Barney Frank Reintroduces Fully-Inclusive ENDA.posted by ericb at 2:46 PM on June 27, 2009 [5 favorites]
Queen's Park (ahem)!
posted by ericb at 2:48 PM on June 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by ericb at 2:48 PM on June 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
Goddammit how did I miss that
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 2:50 PM on June 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 2:50 PM on June 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
Full Colbert Report from July 25th, featuring an interview with Jim Fouratt (Comedy Central episode link).
posted by filthy light thief at 2:50 PM on June 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by filthy light thief at 2:50 PM on June 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Boy, it really sounds like I should check out this interview with Jim Fouratt.
posted by lilac girl at 2:54 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by lilac girl at 2:54 PM on June 27, 2009
I have to say, the wikipedia article on the riots is probably the most thorough and informative article on wikipedia that I've ever read. Whoever wrote it should pat themselves on the back.
posted by empath at 2:54 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by empath at 2:54 PM on June 27, 2009
For my fellow Canucks: Jim Fouratt segment on the Colbert Report via Comedy Network.
posted by Decimask at 2:57 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by Decimask at 2:57 PM on June 27, 2009
Too many G&T's? ; )
Hah, no. I'm largely avoiding the whole mess this year.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:00 PM on June 27, 2009
Hah, no. I'm largely avoiding the whole mess this year.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:00 PM on June 27, 2009
Great story, if my google-fu turns it up I will link it here.
Boy, it really sounds like I should check out this interview with Jim Fouratt.
lazaruslong -- watch Jim Fouratt's interview with Colbert. He recounts the story.
posted by ericb at 3:02 PM on June 27, 2009
Boy, it really sounds like I should check out this interview with Jim Fouratt.
lazaruslong -- watch Jim Fouratt's interview with Colbert. He recounts the story.
posted by ericb at 3:02 PM on June 27, 2009
The police, outnumbered by between 500 and 600 people, grabbed several people, including folk singer Dave van Ronk—who had been attracted to the revolt from a bar two doors away from the Stonewall. Though van Ronk was not gay, he had experienced police violence when he participated in antiwar demonstrations: "As far as I was concerned, anybody who'd stand against the cops was all right with me, and that's why I stayed in.... Every time you turned around the cops were pulling some outrage or another."Note to America: more like this, please.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:52 PM on June 27, 2009 [4 favorites]
Queen's Park (ahem)!
"Ahem" indeed. (Scroll down.)
It was fixed. (Scroll down.)
posted by oaf at 3:57 PM on June 27, 2009
"Ahem" indeed. (Scroll down.)
It was fixed. (Scroll down.)
posted by oaf at 3:57 PM on June 27, 2009
Jim Fouratt - awesome. There is something wonderful about hearing the stories of individuals who made a difference.
Happy anniversary! Keep the grip around Mr. Obama's throat! And don't forget the world doesn't stop at the border...
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 4:36 PM on June 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Happy anniversary! Keep the grip around Mr. Obama's throat! And don't forget the world doesn't stop at the border...
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 4:36 PM on June 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
OutHistory recently posted the Stonewall Riot Police Reports (NYT summary). There was also an op-ed with lots of interesting detail yesterday from Lucian Truscott, then a reporter for the Village Voice, who stumbled upon the riots as they were happening that night. It's kind of a myth-buster, too:
A prominent Stonewall myth holds that the riots were an uprising by the gay community against decades of oppression. This would be true if the “gay community” consisted of Stonewall patrons. The bar’s regulars, though, were mostly teenagers from Queens, Long Island and New Jersey, with a few young drag queens and homeless youths who squatted in abandoned tenements on the Lower East Side.
I was there on the Saturday and Sunday nights when the Village’s established gay community, having heard about the incidents of Friday night, rushed back from vacation rentals on Fire Island and elsewhere. Although several older activists participated in the riots, most stood on the edges and watched. Many told me they were put off by the way the younger gays were taunting the police — forming chorus lines and singing, “We are the Stonewall girls, we wear our hair in curls!” Many of the older gay men lived largely closeted lives, had careers to protect and years of experience with discrimination. They believed the younger generation’s behavior would lead to even more oppression.
Another shorter piece here from Fred Sargeant, who helped keep the momentum going the next day.
posted by mediareport at 4:37 PM on June 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
A prominent Stonewall myth holds that the riots were an uprising by the gay community against decades of oppression. This would be true if the “gay community” consisted of Stonewall patrons. The bar’s regulars, though, were mostly teenagers from Queens, Long Island and New Jersey, with a few young drag queens and homeless youths who squatted in abandoned tenements on the Lower East Side.
I was there on the Saturday and Sunday nights when the Village’s established gay community, having heard about the incidents of Friday night, rushed back from vacation rentals on Fire Island and elsewhere. Although several older activists participated in the riots, most stood on the edges and watched. Many told me they were put off by the way the younger gays were taunting the police — forming chorus lines and singing, “We are the Stonewall girls, we wear our hair in curls!” Many of the older gay men lived largely closeted lives, had careers to protect and years of experience with discrimination. They believed the younger generation’s behavior would lead to even more oppression.
Another shorter piece here from Fred Sargeant, who helped keep the momentum going the next day.
posted by mediareport at 4:37 PM on June 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
Also, Martin Duberman's book Stonewall is pretty fucking great. It doesn't shy away from the complexity - and the sometimes contradictory impulses - of the rioters, and is also a really fun read.
posted by mediareport at 4:43 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by mediareport at 4:43 PM on June 27, 2009
Jeez got so excited I missed the OutHistory link in the post. Sorry bout that...
posted by mediareport at 4:44 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by mediareport at 4:44 PM on June 27, 2009
I'm feeling flamboyant right now! I hope I don't sound effusive when I say thanks for this post that you've obviously put a lot of effort into.
posted by longsleeves at 4:46 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by longsleeves at 4:46 PM on June 27, 2009
I am incredibly grateful to our forebears for the sacrifices they have made for our rights.
Please do not underestimate the impact that *you* can make as an individual. Beyond giving money, it has been said that eighty percent is showing up. Whatever your views regarding our current situation, SHOW UP:
Here are some links to a recent demonstration:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/arc...dont-be-fooled
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/6...inks-to-photos)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062502592.html
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...den_event.html
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/...-demonstrators
http://advocate.com/news_detail_ektid93604.asp
http://www.washblade.com/photos/albu...toalbum_id=160
posted by Morrigan at 4:55 PM on June 27, 2009
Please do not underestimate the impact that *you* can make as an individual. Beyond giving money, it has been said that eighty percent is showing up. Whatever your views regarding our current situation, SHOW UP:
Here are some links to a recent demonstration:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/arc...dont-be-fooled
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/6...inks-to-photos)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062502592.html
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...den_event.html
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/...-demonstrators
http://advocate.com/news_detail_ektid93604.asp
http://www.washblade.com/photos/albu...toalbum_id=160
posted by Morrigan at 4:55 PM on June 27, 2009
All those "Ahems" got me thinking, is it just coincidence that the gay beach at Rehoboth, starts at Queen St.?
posted by 445supermag at 5:07 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by 445supermag at 5:07 PM on June 27, 2009
Fabulous post!
It's very strange for me this year. Here in Atlanta, Pride has traditionally been held in Piedmont Park, but thanks to the last four years of drought, they restricted large events in the Park to one a quarter. Another event was already scheduled before Pride booked, so instead of moving the location, they moved the dates to Halloween. I predict far fewer wings n' g-string costumes on the floats this year.
posted by elfgirl at 5:28 PM on June 27, 2009
It's very strange for me this year. Here in Atlanta, Pride has traditionally been held in Piedmont Park, but thanks to the last four years of drought, they restricted large events in the Park to one a quarter. Another event was already scheduled before Pride booked, so instead of moving the location, they moved the dates to Halloween. I predict far fewer wings n' g-string costumes on the floats this year.
posted by elfgirl at 5:28 PM on June 27, 2009
lazaruslong: "Apparently the bar was a skeezy Mafia joint ..."
Laz, I saw that on the NYT RSS yesterday. It was written by the guy who covered the event for the Voice, with an improbable old-school East Coast name (Culliver Fentwort III, or some such. Note my name-guess is NOT AT ALL the guy's real name, but the byline was one that had the same air of improbability and privilege).
Also, the Stonewall Inn is (was?) at 53 Christopher St. Across the street(s) and up half a block is Marie's Crisis Cafe. On Marie's, there's a plaque commemorating the fact that Thomas Paine, the most radical of our founding fathers, died in the building that houses Marie's. Standing at the plaque, you can turn and look across Sheridan Square to see the Stonewall.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=54+Christopher+St,+New+York,+NY+10014+(Stonewall+Inn)&daddr=marie%27s+crisis+cafe+nyc&hl=en&geocode=CYot3INhGp3IFSmDbQIdy-GW-yF5aRjU2O1SoQ%3BFSGKbQIdMsyW-yGw4BOqeW5IiQ&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=40.732608,-74.000645&sspn=0.009252,0.022724&ie=UTF8&z=19
Ever since I learned that, I have known in my heart of hearts that Tom Paine was out there on that hot summer street mixing it up with the boys in blue.
posted by mwhybark at 5:41 PM on June 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
Laz, I saw that on the NYT RSS yesterday. It was written by the guy who covered the event for the Voice, with an improbable old-school East Coast name (Culliver Fentwort III, or some such. Note my name-guess is NOT AT ALL the guy's real name, but the byline was one that had the same air of improbability and privilege).
Also, the Stonewall Inn is (was?) at 53 Christopher St. Across the street(s) and up half a block is Marie's Crisis Cafe. On Marie's, there's a plaque commemorating the fact that Thomas Paine, the most radical of our founding fathers, died in the building that houses Marie's. Standing at the plaque, you can turn and look across Sheridan Square to see the Stonewall.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=54+Christopher+St,+New+York,+NY+10014+(Stonewall+Inn)&daddr=marie%27s+crisis+cafe+nyc&hl=en&geocode=CYot3INhGp3IFSmDbQIdy-GW-yF5aRjU2O1SoQ%3BFSGKbQIdMsyW-yGw4BOqeW5IiQ&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=40.732608,-74.000645&sspn=0.009252,0.022724&ie=UTF8&z=19
Ever since I learned that, I have known in my heart of hearts that Tom Paine was out there on that hot summer street mixing it up with the boys in blue.
posted by mwhybark at 5:41 PM on June 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
mediareport:There was also an op-ed with lots of interesting detail yesterday from Lucian Truscott, then a reporter for the Village Voice...
That is the link I was thinking of in the Times.
posted by mwhybark at 5:45 PM on June 27, 2009
That is the link I was thinking of in the Times.
posted by mwhybark at 5:45 PM on June 27, 2009
Fantastic post, thanks for this. This is civil rights history, the fight goes on - how tragic that it is still so far from where it should be. I salute those pioneers... and ask where are the activists today?
On an unrelated note, I went to the pride parade here in LA this year, with my wife (she took the pictures, and I'll upload it on my flickr soonish). We went there to show support and gay-straight solidarity. I must confess, I was somewhat disappointed. No passion. Corporate presence. Politicians came out whoring for votes, but it felt pro-forma, didn't feel sincere, didn't have the passion I expected especially in view of prop 8. I came back home depressed. Maybe it was just me. But next year, I'll try Castro in SF, maybe it's just LA.
posted by VikingSword at 6:04 PM on June 27, 2009
On an unrelated note, I went to the pride parade here in LA this year, with my wife (she took the pictures, and I'll upload it on my flickr soonish). We went there to show support and gay-straight solidarity. I must confess, I was somewhat disappointed. No passion. Corporate presence. Politicians came out whoring for votes, but it felt pro-forma, didn't feel sincere, didn't have the passion I expected especially in view of prop 8. I came back home depressed. Maybe it was just me. But next year, I'll try Castro in SF, maybe it's just LA.
posted by VikingSword at 6:04 PM on June 27, 2009
Round-up: New York Marks 40th. Anniversary of Stonewall Riots.
posted by ericb at 6:11 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by ericb at 6:11 PM on June 27, 2009
Also, Martin Duberman's book Stonewall is pretty fucking great.
A fascinating person. BTW -- he appears as a panelist in the Charlie Rose PBS television program (mentioned/linked to above).
posted by ericb at 6:20 PM on June 27, 2009
A fascinating person. BTW -- he appears as a panelist in the Charlie Rose PBS television program (mentioned/linked to above).
posted by ericb at 6:20 PM on June 27, 2009
Happy Pride, family!
Anyone planning on going to DC for the march in October? If so, we should have a Vast Gay MeFi Cabal Meetup while we're all standing up for our rights!
posted by greekphilosophy at 6:29 PM on June 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Anyone planning on going to DC for the march in October? If so, we should have a Vast Gay MeFi Cabal Meetup while we're all standing up for our rights!
posted by greekphilosophy at 6:29 PM on June 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ericb - thanks for the post! Our parade isn't until next month, but important to remember where it all began.
posted by garnetgirl at 6:40 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by garnetgirl at 6:40 PM on June 27, 2009
This is civil rights history, the fight goes on - how tragic that it is still so far from where it should be.
Frank Rich | NYT's : 40 Years Later, Still Second-Class Americans.
Forty years after famous riots at Stonewall Inn, gays are still 'fighting to be seen as full humans'.
posted by ericb at 6:44 PM on June 27, 2009
Frank Rich | NYT's : 40 Years Later, Still Second-Class Americans.
Forty years after famous riots at Stonewall Inn, gays are still 'fighting to be seen as full humans'.
posted by ericb at 6:44 PM on June 27, 2009
All those "Ahems" got me thinking, is it just coincidence that the gay beach at Rehoboth, starts at Queen St.?
Heh. Funny thing is that Quuen's Park is a major cruising area at night, partly because the University of Toronto campus is across the street.
We went there to show support and gay-straight solidarity. I must confess, I was somewhat disappointed. No passion. Corporate presence. Politicians came out whoring for votes, but it felt pro-forma, didn't feel sincere, didn't have the passion I expected
That's Pride everywhere now. It's just an excuse to live up to stereotypes and have a party. My first Pride was 1993 (I was 14) and boy howdy was there passion. Queers were still very angry at the time, still fighting and fighting and fighting for equality. The past ten years or so have been remarkably complacent.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 6:54 PM on June 27, 2009
Heh. Funny thing is that Quuen's Park is a major cruising area at night, partly because the University of Toronto campus is across the street.
We went there to show support and gay-straight solidarity. I must confess, I was somewhat disappointed. No passion. Corporate presence. Politicians came out whoring for votes, but it felt pro-forma, didn't feel sincere, didn't have the passion I expected
That's Pride everywhere now. It's just an excuse to live up to stereotypes and have a party. My first Pride was 1993 (I was 14) and boy howdy was there passion. Queers were still very angry at the time, still fighting and fighting and fighting for equality. The past ten years or so have been remarkably complacent.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 6:54 PM on June 27, 2009
All of the comments and links to pieces that say that gay people are second-class citizens, while valid, don't take my mind of the central fact of this day. Events like the riots at Stonewall -- and the actions and words of so many other predecessors, from the Daughters of Bilitis to the Mattachine Society to Edward Carpenter and Frank Kameny and Harvey Milk -- remind me that without the history that came before, what my life is today as a gay man would not exist. I am forever in debt to all of those who came before, who struggled and fought and died, and who made today a reality.
posted by blucevalo at 8:03 PM on June 27, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by blucevalo at 8:03 PM on June 27, 2009 [4 favorites]
I agree blucevalo, and even with the corporate feel that many Prides now have there are still many reasons to get out, celebrate and march. Pride in my town comes in August and our family will once again be marching with the LGBT Family Coaltion. The parade draws spectators from all over and they will learn that we're here, we're queer and we're a family. Happy Pride to all of you celebrating today.
posted by Cuke at 9:02 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by Cuke at 9:02 PM on June 27, 2009
Urgh, Pride. My city is infested with approximately half the gays in the Western hemisphere right now.
We've got the other half!
Got home from Dyke March a little while ago. We peeled off before the march got to the insanity of the party on Market Street, though, and tomorrow we will host our second annual Bad Gay People brunch ("We're Here, We're Queer, We're Used to It), and will watch the parade on TV instead, while eating quiche (frittata, actually) and drinking Mimosas.
Happy Pride!
posted by rtha at 10:00 PM on June 27, 2009
We've got the other half!
Got home from Dyke March a little while ago. We peeled off before the march got to the insanity of the party on Market Street, though, and tomorrow we will host our second annual Bad Gay People brunch ("We're Here, We're Queer, We're Used to It), and will watch the parade on TV instead, while eating quiche (frittata, actually) and drinking Mimosas.
Happy Pride!
posted by rtha at 10:00 PM on June 27, 2009
Happy Pride!
posted by Space Kitty at 11:21 PM on June 27, 2009
posted by Space Kitty at 11:21 PM on June 27, 2009
That Fouratt interview with Colbert was horrible. How can Fouratt erase so much transgender history? It's not all about "gay rights" -- the movement is broader than just gay men, and broader than just gays and lesbians. (And he never mentioned bi people, either.)
We still have a long way to go.
posted by jiawen at 12:28 AM on June 28, 2009
We still have a long way to go.
posted by jiawen at 12:28 AM on June 28, 2009
I cannot help but think that the fact that this raid happened right after Judy Garland's funeral influenced the response of the bar patrons.
both because OH MY GOD DOROTHY IS DEAD ("friend of dorothy" used to be a term for gay men, you know), but because with tens of thousands of people going to the funeral parlor where she was on display, some of these gay men may have had a greater feeling of community and numbers.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:39 AM on June 28, 2009
both because OH MY GOD DOROTHY IS DEAD ("friend of dorothy" used to be a term for gay men, you know), but because with tens of thousands of people going to the funeral parlor where she was on display, some of these gay men may have had a greater feeling of community and numbers.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:39 AM on June 28, 2009
huh. actually, looking at wikipedia, there's some debunking of that idea.
it's certainly become a romanticized bit of lore among gay men of a certain age, however.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:41 AM on June 28, 2009
it's certainly become a romanticized bit of lore among gay men of a certain age, however.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:41 AM on June 28, 2009
It feels strange to be sitting in Atlanta, knowing this is supposed to be Pride weekend, and doing nothing to observe the 40th anniversary of Stonewall beyond reading about it on the blue (good post!) and being queer. Youth Pride held an event yesterday, which my younger daughter and her girlfriend and my ex-girlfriend's son attended, and there are bars hosting anniversary events all over, but it's not the same. It's bad timing for Piedmont Park to be unavailable this year.
elfgirl, I agree. We're predicting fewer g-strings and more drag and furries. There have been a number of conversations contrasting the fun of combining the spirit of Pride with the campiness of Hallowe'en and the concern that this will just give the local media (FOX and ABC affiliates in particular) more visuals for their editorial position that the LGBTQ community is far outside the mainstream.
posted by notashroom at 9:25 AM on June 28, 2009
elfgirl, I agree. We're predicting fewer g-strings and more drag and furries. There have been a number of conversations contrasting the fun of combining the spirit of Pride with the campiness of Hallowe'en and the concern that this will just give the local media (FOX and ABC affiliates in particular) more visuals for their editorial position that the LGBTQ community is far outside the mainstream.
posted by notashroom at 9:25 AM on June 28, 2009
[...]this will just give the local media (FOX and ABC affiliates in particular) more visuals for their editorial position that the LGBTQ community is far outside the mainstream.
Fuck FOX. Change is happening all around us in the society, change for the better, and it's the politics that's lagging behind. Good article about that in the NYTimes.
posted by VikingSword at 9:34 AM on June 28, 2009
Fuck FOX. Change is happening all around us in the society, change for the better, and it's the politics that's lagging behind. Good article about that in the NYTimes.
posted by VikingSword at 9:34 AM on June 28, 2009
That Fouratt interview with Colbert was horrible. How can Fouratt erase so much transgender history? It's not all about "gay rights" -- the movement is broader than just gay men, and broader than just gays and lesbians. (And he never mentioned bi people, either.)
We still have a long way to go.
posted by jiawen at 3:28 AM on June 28 [+] [!]
I don't think you should be so hard on him. He's on Colbert, fighting to a get a word in edgewise. Colbert was obviously interested in the Stonewall aspect of things, and so that's what he spoke about. And not mentioning something is not the same as erasing the history of something.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:17 AM on June 28, 2009
We still have a long way to go.
posted by jiawen at 3:28 AM on June 28 [+] [!]
I don't think you should be so hard on him. He's on Colbert, fighting to a get a word in edgewise. Colbert was obviously interested in the Stonewall aspect of things, and so that's what he spoke about. And not mentioning something is not the same as erasing the history of something.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:17 AM on June 28, 2009
But yes, we do still have a long way to go. And I am not gay, or bi, or transgendered. I am an American citizen, and damn, we have a long way to go. Treating all our citizens with the same rights and respect is the first, most important step. We've continually postponed that moral obligation for various groups, and one second of one day is too long to wait for us to wake up and act like moral adults.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:33 AM on June 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by lazaruslong at 10:33 AM on June 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
He's on Colbert, fighting to a get a word in edgewise.
Yeah, an appearance on The Colbert Report is pretty much guaranteed not to be your life's most shining moment. It's a pretty fucking horrible platform to use if you have a point to get across. I cringed through Simon Schama's recent appearance, despite having lots of respect for the man. But, to be fair, Fouratt's been something of a reactionary on trans issues for years; this sharp 2006 article poked him hard on the point. His position that transitioning is basically conceding the gender game to the homophobes (actually, he called m-to-f trans folks "misguided gay men who’d undergone surgical mutilations") has been controversial for a while. It's a complex and furious argument - with, I suppose, forced gender reassignment surgery for gays and lesbians as some sort of fascist endgame in Fouratt's mind - but I think it's fair to say Fouratt's been at the forefront of diminishing the validity of self-identified trans folks' issues for a while now.
posted by mediareport at 12:23 PM on June 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
Yeah, an appearance on The Colbert Report is pretty much guaranteed not to be your life's most shining moment. It's a pretty fucking horrible platform to use if you have a point to get across. I cringed through Simon Schama's recent appearance, despite having lots of respect for the man. But, to be fair, Fouratt's been something of a reactionary on trans issues for years; this sharp 2006 article poked him hard on the point. His position that transitioning is basically conceding the gender game to the homophobes (actually, he called m-to-f trans folks "misguided gay men who’d undergone surgical mutilations") has been controversial for a while. It's a complex and furious argument - with, I suppose, forced gender reassignment surgery for gays and lesbians as some sort of fascist endgame in Fouratt's mind - but I think it's fair to say Fouratt's been at the forefront of diminishing the validity of self-identified trans folks' issues for a while now.
posted by mediareport at 12:23 PM on June 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
Btw, speaking of trans issues, folks do know the author of that ridiculous Transformers 2 review over at io9 identifies as a male-to-female transgender person, right?
And if the thought of a self-identified male-to-female genderqueer critic skimming over obnoxious racial stereotyping in a kids' film while ranting about the joys of incoherent noise and the male id in order to drive hits to her Denton Site post makes you roll your eyes I assure you you're not alone.
posted by mediareport at 1:07 PM on June 28, 2009
And if the thought of a self-identified male-to-female genderqueer critic skimming over obnoxious racial stereotyping in a kids' film while ranting about the joys of incoherent noise and the male id in order to drive hits to her Denton Site post makes you roll your eyes I assure you you're not alone.
posted by mediareport at 1:07 PM on June 28, 2009
The Gay Generation Gap
"This week, tens of thousands of gay people will converge on New York City for Pride Week, and tens of thousands of residents will come out to play as well. Some of us will indulge in clubbing and dancing, and some of us will bond over our ineptitude at both. Some of us will be in drag and some of us will roll our eyes at drag. We will rehash arguments so old that they’ve become a Pride Week staple; for instance, is the parade a joyous expression of liberation, or a counterproductive freak show dominated by needy exhibitionists and gawking news cameras? Other debates will be more freshly minted: Is President Obama’s procrastinatory approach to gay-rights issues an all-out betrayal, or just pragmatic incrementalism? We’ll have a good, long, energizing intra-family bull session about same-sex marriage and the New York State Senate, Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell and the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, Project Runway and Adam Lambert.posted by ericb at 2:25 PM on June 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
And at some point, a group of gay men in their forties or fifties will find themselves occupying the same bar or park or restaurant or subway car or patch of pavement as a group of gay men in their twenties. We will look at them. They will look at us. We will realize that we have absolutely nothing to say to one another.
And the gay generation gap will widen...."
Ft. Worth Police have their own way of celebrating Stonewall: Last night around 1 a.m., on the anniversary of the Stonewall riots, the Fort Worth Police Department raided the Rainbow Lounge and began randomly handcuffing and arresting patrons and shoving anyone who dared to ask why. Protest schedules and updated information are posted at the Dallas Voice Blog.
posted by Bernt Pancreas at 7:38 PM on June 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Bernt Pancreas at 7:38 PM on June 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
As mediareport mentioned, Fouratt has a long history of this crap. It's not the first time for him. It's not hard to mention trans or bi people -- he got a lot of other words in edgewise. Talking about the butch dudes as "passing women", and conscientiously avoiding the fact that they'd almost certainly identify as trans now (and that some of the key people in the riot, such as Sylvia Rivera, most assuredly identified as trans) is strongly offensive. And, yes, is an example of erasing trans history.
But mediareport, your later quote ("a self-identified male-to-female genderqueer critic...") is pretty offensive, too. Charlie does good work. Why do you have to point out that she's trans as something to "roll your eyes" at?
Also, why do you have to keep mentioning that trans people are "self-identified" as such? You don't use that phrase for gay people. What do you mean by it?
posted by jiawen at 7:46 PM on June 28, 2009
But mediareport, your later quote ("a self-identified male-to-female genderqueer critic...") is pretty offensive, too. Charlie does good work. Why do you have to point out that she's trans as something to "roll your eyes" at?
Also, why do you have to keep mentioning that trans people are "self-identified" as such? You don't use that phrase for gay people. What do you mean by it?
posted by jiawen at 7:46 PM on June 28, 2009
I do use "self-identified" for bi, gay and lesbian people, jiawen. The categories are fluid, and "self-identified" is a useful term to remind me that what folks decide to call themselves matters and is worth respecting. You are also horribly misreading my eye-rolling comment. Charlie's review of T2 is a chunk of atrociously confused garbage designed to appeal to the masses of folks she knew would be seeing the film. I was very surprised when I realized she was a trans person who noted only in passing that a major summer kids movie offered some of the worst racial stereotyping in recent popcult memory, while glorifying to high heaven the film's noise and idiocy as some sort of achievement. I expect more from someone who's dealt with discrimination in such a direct way in her own life.
posted by mediareport at 8:59 PM on June 28, 2009
posted by mediareport at 8:59 PM on June 28, 2009
For the record, "self-identify as trans" (like "self-identify as lesbian/gay/bi") is a very common usage in both queer rights and academic circles. The implication that someone who uses it should be questioned because it demonstrates anti-trans bigotry is ridiculous.
posted by mediareport at 9:13 PM on June 28, 2009
posted by mediareport at 9:13 PM on June 28, 2009
the Fort Worth Police Department raided the Rainbow Lounge...
Rainbow Lounge Raid Facebook Page.
posted by ericb at 9:24 PM on June 28, 2009
Rainbow Lounge Raid Facebook Page.
posted by ericb at 9:24 PM on June 28, 2009
Happy Pride Day! (Well, it's Pride Night by now, I guess.)
One of the first Pride Parades I ever went to was in New York in 1992. My favorite marchers were the color guard who gave a wonderful performance involving Idaho russets on sticks and the catchy chant, "We're here! We're queer! And we can spell potato!"
posted by scody at 9:55 PM on June 28, 2009
One of the first Pride Parades I ever went to was in New York in 1992. My favorite marchers were the color guard who gave a wonderful performance involving Idaho russets on sticks and the catchy chant, "We're here! We're queer! And we can spell potato!"
posted by scody at 9:55 PM on June 28, 2009
mediareport, you've discussed other identities in this thread without using the "self-identified" tag. It seemed strange that the only two instances where you used it were in referring to trans people. In neither case did it seem to me to add anything to your point, save that in referring to Charlie it sounded extra snide.
Charlie's review of the film seems to me plainly to be making fun of it. The review is entirely facetious. Her record is still quite clean as far as I'm concerned.
posted by jiawen at 10:22 PM on June 28, 2009
Charlie's review of the film seems to me plainly to be making fun of it. The review is entirely facetious. Her record is still quite clean as far as I'm concerned.
posted by jiawen at 10:22 PM on June 28, 2009
I'll refrain from resenting your implication that I was being an anti-trans bigot, but your implication was wrong.
Charlie's review of the film seems to me plainly to be making fun of it. The review is entirely facetious.
Ha. Really? To me, the review hits that perfect neo-ironic (or something) note - you know it, surely: "I mean it, honest, well, unless I don't, ha, I mean, come on, how could I mean that, unless, of course, you think I don't mean it, in which case I mean it, definitely, for sure, absolutely."
There's a lot of facetious stuff there, yeah, but there's plenty of fudging to not piss off the folks who'll love it who, of course, drive hits to the site (the ultimate currency for Denton writers). That, coupled with the almost complete pass given to the racial stereotyping, puts Charlie's piece in a very different - and very disappointing - light for me. De gustibus.
posted by mediareport at 10:42 PM on June 28, 2009
Charlie's review of the film seems to me plainly to be making fun of it. The review is entirely facetious.
Ha. Really? To me, the review hits that perfect neo-ironic (or something) note - you know it, surely: "I mean it, honest, well, unless I don't, ha, I mean, come on, how could I mean that, unless, of course, you think I don't mean it, in which case I mean it, definitely, for sure, absolutely."
There's a lot of facetious stuff there, yeah, but there's plenty of fudging to not piss off the folks who'll love it who, of course, drive hits to the site (the ultimate currency for Denton writers). That, coupled with the almost complete pass given to the racial stereotyping, puts Charlie's piece in a very different - and very disappointing - light for me. De gustibus.
posted by mediareport at 10:42 PM on June 28, 2009
I remember (the year escapes me--late 80s?) the teachers who marched on Broadway in Seattle. They wore paper bags over their heads, protesting the firing of openly lesbian and gay educators.
posted by Carol Anne at 5:34 AM on June 29, 2009
posted by Carol Anne at 5:34 AM on June 29, 2009
mediareport, you've discussed other identities in this thread without using the "self-identified" tag. It seemed strange that the only two instances where you used it were in referring to trans people.
This doesn't seem weird to me at all, since many trans people don't necessarily identify as trans, but as the gender they've transitioned into. Lots of trans folks I know do identify specifically as trans as a political/social statement.
And I can't make sense of Charlie's review, but perhaps that's a deliberate commentary on the (apparently, from what I've heard) nonsensical nature of the movie itself.
Anyway.
So we skipped Pride yesterday, but reminisced about Prides gone by, and other queer protests/rallies. I remember being in New York for the 25th anniversary of Stonewall, which was pretty great. What started as a rally at the site of the Stonewall bar turned into an impromptu march through the Village ("Out of the bars and into the streets!" we shouted) that ended in us shutting down the West Side highway.
posted by rtha at 6:28 AM on June 29, 2009
This doesn't seem weird to me at all, since many trans people don't necessarily identify as trans, but as the gender they've transitioned into. Lots of trans folks I know do identify specifically as trans as a political/social statement.
And I can't make sense of Charlie's review, but perhaps that's a deliberate commentary on the (apparently, from what I've heard) nonsensical nature of the movie itself.
Anyway.
So we skipped Pride yesterday, but reminisced about Prides gone by, and other queer protests/rallies. I remember being in New York for the 25th anniversary of Stonewall, which was pretty great. What started as a rally at the site of the Stonewall bar turned into an impromptu march through the Village ("Out of the bars and into the streets!" we shouted) that ended in us shutting down the West Side highway.
posted by rtha at 6:28 AM on June 29, 2009
Sorry about the non-working links to the recent small event. Let me try that again:
Don't Be Fooled
PROMISES, PROMISES: Gays bemoan go-slow approach
DNC Fund-raiser Nets $1 Million
posted by Morrigan at 6:29 AM on June 29, 2009
Don't Be Fooled
PROMISES, PROMISES: Gays bemoan go-slow approach
DNC Fund-raiser Nets $1 Million
posted by Morrigan at 6:29 AM on June 29, 2009
We're predicting fewer g-strings and more drag and furries.
The guys from the Eagle will love it. Perfect leather weather.
There have been a number of conversations contrasting the fun of combining the spirit of Pride with the campiness of Hallowe'en and the concern that this will just give the local media (FOX and ABC affiliates in particular) more visuals for their editorial position that the LGBTQ community is far outside the mainstream.
Yeah, although they were never particularly kind about the gratuitous near-nudity and leather harnesses in the summer parade, so it may end up six n' six.
I predict many, many floats throwing Skittles.
posted by elfgirl at 10:27 AM on June 29, 2009
The guys from the Eagle will love it. Perfect leather weather.
There have been a number of conversations contrasting the fun of combining the spirit of Pride with the campiness of Hallowe'en and the concern that this will just give the local media (FOX and ABC affiliates in particular) more visuals for their editorial position that the LGBTQ community is far outside the mainstream.
Yeah, although they were never particularly kind about the gratuitous near-nudity and leather harnesses in the summer parade, so it may end up six n' six.
I predict many, many floats throwing Skittles.
posted by elfgirl at 10:27 AM on June 29, 2009
« Older Social Documentarian | Tools made in German Prisons Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Love from the Castro!
posted by Alles at 2:13 PM on June 27, 2009