Chaos Reigns, Class of '82
August 16, 2010 9:22 AM Subscribe
The Plague Dogs (can also be watched instantly on Netflix) is a gory animated feature adapted from Richard Adams' novel about two escapees from an animal research lab. It was released in 1982 but effectively vanished because of its spotty video release history and its mature content. Enjoy the trailer.
John Hurt (who played Hazel in the similarly terrifying adaptation of Watership Down) stars, and if you listen closely you'll hear Sir Patrick Stewart as a radio voice.
John Hurt (who played Hazel in the similarly terrifying adaptation of Watership Down) stars, and if you listen closely you'll hear Sir Patrick Stewart as a radio voice.
A glance at the netflix reviews indicates that both these versions are the US release with about 20 minutes cut out. Anyone know where to find the original? Looks amazing, either way.
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 9:28 AM on August 16, 2010
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 9:28 AM on August 16, 2010
Worst. Animated. Film. Ending. Ever.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:30 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by leotrotsky at 9:30 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
The last five minutes of this film caused me to spend 30 minutes sobbing uncontrollably when I was 14 and caught it on television.
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:30 AM on August 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:30 AM on August 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
Have never heard of this, but the description reminds me a lot of We3, which is a pretty amazing (much later) work.
posted by kmz at 9:31 AM on August 16, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by kmz at 9:31 AM on August 16, 2010 [5 favorites]
(ties with Grave of the Fireflies)
posted by leotrotsky at 9:31 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by leotrotsky at 9:31 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you're a dog lover watching this film will ruin your whole day.
posted by smoothvirus at 9:33 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by smoothvirus at 9:33 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Watership Down, on the other hand, is one of my favorite films.
note: (and I say this from experience) It is not a good date movie.
posted by smoothvirus at 9:35 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
note: (and I say this from experience) It is not a good date movie.
posted by smoothvirus at 9:35 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
It boggles my mind that Watership Down is still marketed to children. Decades later and I can't look a bunny in the eye without picturing the solemn flight of the Black Rabbit of Inle and the bloody froth around Bigwig's mouth as he chokes to death in a snare. Brr.
posted by fight or flight at 9:37 AM on August 16, 2010 [8 favorites]
posted by fight or flight at 9:37 AM on August 16, 2010 [8 favorites]
If you're a dog lover watching this film will ruin your whole day.
If you're a people lover, it'll do the same. Pretty much if your heart isn't cold dead stone, you'll grab for the xanax and scotch upon finishing it.
Amazing it hasn't been more widely distributed, huh?
posted by incessant at 9:40 AM on August 16, 2010
If you're a people lover, it'll do the same. Pretty much if your heart isn't cold dead stone, you'll grab for the xanax and scotch upon finishing it.
Amazing it hasn't been more widely distributed, huh?
posted by incessant at 9:40 AM on August 16, 2010
My strange backwards relationship with Richard Adams started with a 16-year-old's fascination with Skinny Puppy, particularly the album VIVISECT VI. I wore the cassette out on my paper route; years later, thanks to the early Internet and somebody's ridiculously comprehensive list of every sample ever used in an industrial song, I found out that the bizarre shout "I hope you make sure we're properly dead before you start, Rip-Beak!" came from The Plague Dogs.
I tracked it down at Suspect Video in Toronto and was duly traumatized. The quote makes perfect sense, of course, given what the song is about (and the whole album, really). From there, I watched Watership Down, marvelled at the Black Bunny of Death, and promptly never got around to reading any of Adams' actual books.
posted by Shepherd at 9:41 AM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
I tracked it down at Suspect Video in Toronto and was duly traumatized. The quote makes perfect sense, of course, given what the song is about (and the whole album, really). From there, I watched Watership Down, marvelled at the Black Bunny of Death, and promptly never got around to reading any of Adams' actual books.
posted by Shepherd at 9:41 AM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think my brain my be physically incapable of handling this.
The only time I was thankful for my knowledge of Richard Adams's body of work was at a local comedy club where they were doing a "whose line is it anyway?" sort of thing, and the game was that it was supposed to be two people having a conversation in a laundromat and the tone of the scene had to change to match the soundtrack. When the music become ominous and dark the whole scene somehow turned into a reenactment of Watership Down. Half the audience was weeping with laughter while the other half just looked confused. For a brief moment I felt pretty smart that I had got the joke.
Then I went home and had nightmares about killer rabbits.
posted by jnrussell at 9:48 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
The only time I was thankful for my knowledge of Richard Adams's body of work was at a local comedy club where they were doing a "whose line is it anyway?" sort of thing, and the game was that it was supposed to be two people having a conversation in a laundromat and the tone of the scene had to change to match the soundtrack. When the music become ominous and dark the whole scene somehow turned into a reenactment of Watership Down. Half the audience was weeping with laughter while the other half just looked confused. For a brief moment I felt pretty smart that I had got the joke.
Then I went home and had nightmares about killer rabbits.
posted by jnrussell at 9:48 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've never been able to make it through the novel. I've started it like 8 times since I was 15 and I just can't seem to find a foothold in it. Maybe it's because the characters start out so damaged (and if the movie is an indicator, stay that way). That's an issue that Watership Down didn't have to contend with at all, its characters were more able to grow and explore and feel.
posted by hermitosis at 9:49 AM on August 16, 2010
posted by hermitosis at 9:49 AM on August 16, 2010
KINDERTRAUMA TO THE MAX!
posted by Artw at 9:52 AM on August 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:52 AM on August 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
fight or flight: "It boggles my mind that Watership Down is still marketed to children. Decades later and I can't look a bunny in the eye without picturing the solemn flight of the Black Rabbit of Inle and the bloody froth around Bigwig's mouth as he chokes to death in a snare. "
I think that is part of why I loved it so much as a child (I was 9 when it came out). The writing was adult as were many of the topics, although there was none of that confusing sex stuff that most adult books were laced with. As a kid with a high reading level and a somewhat non-storybook childhood, Watership Down fit the ticket beautifully.
Just the other day, I was feeling a bit down, and found myself chanting, "zorn, zorn" under my breath. Ok...more than a bit down. But I knew then exactly what "zorn" meant and, 36 years later, not having read it in 30 years, I still do.
Plague Dogs, though, that made me literally ill. I'm not sure if I ever finished the book. That was worse than the guy in Shardik who held the coal until his hand shriveled.
posted by QIbHom at 9:58 AM on August 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
I think that is part of why I loved it so much as a child (I was 9 when it came out). The writing was adult as were many of the topics, although there was none of that confusing sex stuff that most adult books were laced with. As a kid with a high reading level and a somewhat non-storybook childhood, Watership Down fit the ticket beautifully.
Just the other day, I was feeling a bit down, and found myself chanting, "zorn, zorn" under my breath. Ok...more than a bit down. But I knew then exactly what "zorn" meant and, 36 years later, not having read it in 30 years, I still do.
Plague Dogs, though, that made me literally ill. I'm not sure if I ever finished the book. That was worse than the guy in Shardik who held the coal until his hand shriveled.
posted by QIbHom at 9:58 AM on August 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
I've never seen the movie. The book, while difficult in parts because it deals so extensively with animal testing, is ultimately very rewarding-- it has (HERE BE SPOILERS) a happy ending, by the way. I don't know why they changed that in the movie. In the book, you really need the assurance that Rowf and Snitter will live happily ever after, especially after reading of all the awful things they endured in the beginning.
(I'm a big Richard Adams fan, if you weren't able to guess.)
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 9:58 AM on August 16, 2010
(I'm a big Richard Adams fan, if you weren't able to guess.)
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 9:58 AM on August 16, 2010
The Plague Dogs and Watership Down are still my all-time favorite books. Adams has such a way with language and description, and he clearly loves the English countryside; I doubt these books could have been written by anyone without a lifelong love for nature, as unforgiving as it often is. Between the two, I think the Plague Dogs is the inferior novel, but only by a little... and it's certainly much more challenging, especially if you get the English version (if you've read an American printing and you think the Tod's dialect makes no sense, you have no idea!)
hermitosis: if you didn't get at least to the 2/3 mark, you should read it again. The Plague Dogs is one of those novels where the payoff comes near the end. I'm not going to tell you that its characters were as able to grow and explore and feel as Hazel-Rah and his lot, but they certainly do change.
posted by vorfeed at 10:03 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
hermitosis: if you didn't get at least to the 2/3 mark, you should read it again. The Plague Dogs is one of those novels where the payoff comes near the end. I'm not going to tell you that its characters were as able to grow and explore and feel as Hazel-Rah and his lot, but they certainly do change.
posted by vorfeed at 10:03 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Someone brought this movie over to my place the other day. We threw it up on the projector. I was enjoying it, but I fell asleep before the ending. My roommates assured me that the ending was very happy, and that they found new masters and nothing bad ever happened again.
posted by Uppity Pigeon #2 at 10:04 AM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Uppity Pigeon #2 at 10:04 AM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
The writing was adult as were many of the topics, although there was none of that confusing sex stuff that most adult books were laced with.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I loved the books. I even had a copy of Tales of Watership Down which got read to pieces (despite that one horrible story about the doe with myxomatosis). I just don't get how Certain Entertainment Retailers can take copies of the movie and put it in amongst Disney and Dora as if it doesn't involve scenes wherein rabbits tear each other's throats out.
posted by fight or flight at 10:12 AM on August 16, 2010
Oh, don't get me wrong, I loved the books. I even had a copy of Tales of Watership Down which got read to pieces (despite that one horrible story about the doe with myxomatosis). I just don't get how Certain Entertainment Retailers can take copies of the movie and put it in amongst Disney and Dora as if it doesn't involve scenes wherein rabbits tear each other's throats out.
posted by fight or flight at 10:12 AM on August 16, 2010
And the whole rabbits buried alive by bulldozers scene....
/shudder
And that fucking song, which brings a tear to my eye to this very day, even just thinking about it. Argh! Must maintain manliness!
The black rabbit!
posted by Artw at 10:14 AM on August 16, 2010
/shudder
And that fucking song, which brings a tear to my eye to this very day, even just thinking about it. Argh! Must maintain manliness!
The black rabbit!
posted by Artw at 10:14 AM on August 16, 2010
The book, while difficult in parts because it deals so extensively with animal testing, is ultimately very rewarding
According to Wikipedia, the happy ending to the book was tacked on later.
posted by Gator at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2010
According to Wikipedia, the happy ending to the book was tacked on later.
posted by Gator at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2010
Seeing the Plague Dogs at a reasonably young age considerably helped form my opinions regarding animal testing.
Watership Down, on the other hand, was just traumatic. On my sixth birthday, my dad rented a VCR and that movie, which may have something to do with it.
The blood on the meadow made birthday cake taste of ash.
posted by Graygorey at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
Watership Down, on the other hand, was just traumatic. On my sixth birthday, my dad rented a VCR and that movie, which may have something to do with it.
The blood on the meadow made birthday cake taste of ash.
posted by Graygorey at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
I was really shocked when I saw the movie, after having previously read the book, in that the movie was actually the bleaker of the two.
posted by infinitywaltz at 10:21 AM on August 16, 2010
posted by infinitywaltz at 10:21 AM on August 16, 2010
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
it has (HERE BE SPOILERS) a happy ending, by the way. I don't know why they changed that in the movie. In the book, you really need the assurance that Rowf and Snitter will live happily ever after, especially after reading of all the awful things they endured in the beginning
I've only watched the film version but I liked the bleak non-happy ending. For me at least the main theme of the story seemed to be that the world is a cruel place to try to survive in, so the ending fit with the overall arc of it. It's kind of like Lars von Trier's relentlessly bleak films, I can see why not everyone would want to see that kind of movie but a happy ending would have ruined it for me.
posted by burnmp3s at 10:21 AM on August 16, 2010
it has (HERE BE SPOILERS) a happy ending, by the way. I don't know why they changed that in the movie. In the book, you really need the assurance that Rowf and Snitter will live happily ever after, especially after reading of all the awful things they endured in the beginning
I've only watched the film version but I liked the bleak non-happy ending. For me at least the main theme of the story seemed to be that the world is a cruel place to try to survive in, so the ending fit with the overall arc of it. It's kind of like Lars von Trier's relentlessly bleak films, I can see why not everyone would want to see that kind of movie but a happy ending would have ruined it for me.
posted by burnmp3s at 10:21 AM on August 16, 2010
Ah, got you, fight or flight. I've never seen the movies, and, from the sounds of it, I really don't want to. But for kids raised on Dora the Explorer, yeah, Watership Down is going to be a bit much.
Kids raised on the original Grimm's Fairy Tales, however, will be fine.
posted by QIbHom at 10:23 AM on August 16, 2010
Kids raised on the original Grimm's Fairy Tales, however, will be fine.
posted by QIbHom at 10:23 AM on August 16, 2010
Kids raised on the original Grimm's Fairy Tales, however, will be fine.
Or at least won't be further harmed by Watership Down.
posted by DU at 10:33 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Or at least won't be further harmed by Watership Down.
posted by DU at 10:33 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
An order of magnitude below Plague Dogs, but I remember the death of animated Aslan as being way harsh as well.
posted by Artw at 10:34 AM on August 16, 2010
posted by Artw at 10:34 AM on August 16, 2010
The theme song, Time and Tide, as well as dialogue from the film, was sampled by Skinny Puppy for their single, "Testure", from the 1988 album VIVIsectVI.
posted by two7s_clash at 10:34 AM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by two7s_clash at 10:34 AM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
it has (HERE BE SPOILERS) a happy ending, by the way. I don't know why they changed that in the movie. In the book, you really need the assurance that Rowf and Snitter will live happily ever after, especially after reading of all the awful things they endured in the beginning.
I think it's obvious why they "changed that in the movie" -- because Adams heavily implies that the happy ending did not actually occur. It's a dying dream, or perhaps just an indulgence of the author; that's why that chapter makes little rational sense, and why it's called "Deus ex Machina".
According to Wikipedia, the happy ending to the book was tacked on later.
I'm pretty sure I have the first English edition at home, so I'll check this later today. Either way, Adams' introduction to the last chapter makes it pretty clear that you're to choose which ending you prefer, with the drowning being the most likely and the rescue being the most sentimental.
posted by vorfeed at 10:34 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think it's obvious why they "changed that in the movie" -- because Adams heavily implies that the happy ending did not actually occur. It's a dying dream, or perhaps just an indulgence of the author; that's why that chapter makes little rational sense, and why it's called "Deus ex Machina".
According to Wikipedia, the happy ending to the book was tacked on later.
I'm pretty sure I have the first English edition at home, so I'll check this later today. Either way, Adams' introduction to the last chapter makes it pretty clear that you're to choose which ending you prefer, with the drowning being the most likely and the rescue being the most sentimental.
posted by vorfeed at 10:34 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
kmz: "Have never heard of this, but the description reminds me a lot of We3, which is a pretty amazing (much later) work."
Having read both, We3 is basically The Plague Dogs with mecha and more military stuff. I don't know if Grant Morrison ever read The Plague Dogs, but I wouldn't be surprised.
posted by bettafish at 11:06 AM on August 16, 2010
Having read both, We3 is basically The Plague Dogs with mecha and more military stuff. I don't know if Grant Morrison ever read The Plague Dogs, but I wouldn't be surprised.
posted by bettafish at 11:06 AM on August 16, 2010
As a kid with a high reading level and a somewhat non-storybook childhood, Watership Down fit the ticket beautifully.
Richard Adams (and Douglas Adams, to whom I was introduced at far too young an age) was key to my surviving the under-10 years. This post will probably inspire one of my periodic rereading binges...
Also: Watership Down is a real place, and according to Wikipedia is owned mostly by Andrew Lloyd Webber so the cats have probably eaten all the rabbits by now
posted by jtron at 11:07 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Richard Adams (and Douglas Adams, to whom I was introduced at far too young an age) was key to my surviving the under-10 years. This post will probably inspire one of my periodic rereading binges...
Also: Watership Down is a real place, and according to Wikipedia is owned mostly by Andrew Lloyd Webber so the cats have probably eaten all the rabbits by now
posted by jtron at 11:07 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm a big fan of Richard Adams (and talking animal narratives in general). But I do find it hard to imagine the target audience for an animated movie of Plague Dogs. I haven't even looked at the trailer yet, just something I may have to continue to postpone...
I did like the Watership Down movie. Fascinating useless trivia: the soundtrack was composed by Scott Walker's string arranger.
posted by ovvl at 11:09 AM on August 16, 2010
I did like the Watership Down movie. Fascinating useless trivia: the soundtrack was composed by Scott Walker's string arranger.
posted by ovvl at 11:09 AM on August 16, 2010
I read the book. It wasn't pretty. I grew up to become an animal researcher. I don't work on dogs or cats, nor do I think I would want to. I identify too much with them. Rats and mice only, at least so far in my life.
Adams' message wasn't lost on me though, despite my career path. I tell myself every day: When I stop feeling bad for the rats, it's time to retire.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:11 AM on August 16, 2010 [5 favorites]
Adams' message wasn't lost on me though, despite my career path. I tell myself every day: When I stop feeling bad for the rats, it's time to retire.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:11 AM on August 16, 2010 [5 favorites]
That was worse than the guy in Shardik who held the coal until his hand shriveled.
Oh but what about the bamboo shoots under the guy's fingernails? That's pretty much all I remember from Shardik.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:16 AM on August 16, 2010
Oh but what about the bamboo shoots under the guy's fingernails? That's pretty much all I remember from Shardik.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:16 AM on August 16, 2010
I can't believe all the people here who are saying they loved WD as kids. I never read the book or watched the movie and I was STILL traumatized by a brief description of the story.
posted by DU at 11:24 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by DU at 11:24 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I read Watership Down multiple times as a child, and even had my librarian-mother cover my copy with Brodart plastic for protection of one of my favorite books. However, as an adult, my husband tried to read it out loud to me, and we had to quit about halfway through when I started laughing every time Adams references another English countryside plant. If a page went by without a mention of a thistle, I started thinking I had dozed off and simply missed it. Funny how much more repetitive things like that stand out when you're being read to versus reading silently to yourself.
posted by thebrokedown at 11:37 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by thebrokedown at 11:37 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
It is an absolute fucking crime that I have not seen this before today. What an amazing movie. I haven't cried like that in a long time.
posted by cthuljew at 11:51 AM on August 16, 2010
posted by cthuljew at 11:51 AM on August 16, 2010
Also: Watership Down is a real place, and according to Wikipedia is owned mostly by Andrew Lloyd Webber so the cats have probably eaten all the rabbits by now
There's a fantastic website called The Real Watership Down with detailed photos, maps, and a travelogue of the downs. They're apparently more-or-less the same as they were back when Adams wrote the book, minus most of the big beech the Watership warren was under. Likewise, this page has a more recent set of photos and descriptions, from a visit in 2004.
I can't believe all the people here who are saying they loved WD as kids. I never read the book or watched the movie and I was STILL traumatized by a brief description of the story.
DU, Watership Down was my bible as a kid (and to this day), to the point where I cannot imagine what my life would be like without it. I got my first copy at the next-door neighbor's yard sale, at the age of eight, and adored it from the start. I was an advanced reader already, but Watership Down was the book that catapulted me out of the kids section and into the adult stacks! It was wonderful, and not traumatizing in the least... except in a wonderful way, I suppose.
Not everyone is bothered by the same things. Hell, I'd already read plenty of Kipling, the Brothers Grimm, and Aesop's fables... and I guess I've been a morbid sort since very early on, anyway. If anything, Watership Down was a balm to me, because it taught me that I could make it through adversity with determination, cleverness, and an occasional bit of lateral thinking.
That was a damn fine lesson for an unpopular kid to learn, and it's one I've never forgotten.
posted by vorfeed at 11:52 AM on August 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
There's a fantastic website called The Real Watership Down with detailed photos, maps, and a travelogue of the downs. They're apparently more-or-less the same as they were back when Adams wrote the book, minus most of the big beech the Watership warren was under. Likewise, this page has a more recent set of photos and descriptions, from a visit in 2004.
I can't believe all the people here who are saying they loved WD as kids. I never read the book or watched the movie and I was STILL traumatized by a brief description of the story.
DU, Watership Down was my bible as a kid (and to this day), to the point where I cannot imagine what my life would be like without it. I got my first copy at the next-door neighbor's yard sale, at the age of eight, and adored it from the start. I was an advanced reader already, but Watership Down was the book that catapulted me out of the kids section and into the adult stacks! It was wonderful, and not traumatizing in the least... except in a wonderful way, I suppose.
Not everyone is bothered by the same things. Hell, I'd already read plenty of Kipling, the Brothers Grimm, and Aesop's fables... and I guess I've been a morbid sort since very early on, anyway. If anything, Watership Down was a balm to me, because it taught me that I could make it through adversity with determination, cleverness, and an occasional bit of lateral thinking.
That was a damn fine lesson for an unpopular kid to learn, and it's one I've never forgotten.
posted by vorfeed at 11:52 AM on August 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
"caused me to spend 30 minutes sobbing uncontrollably when I was 14 and caught it on television."
Same thing happened to me whenever I watched the Charlie Brown Christmas special.
posted by puny human at 11:53 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Same thing happened to me whenever I watched the Charlie Brown Christmas special.
posted by puny human at 11:53 AM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I can't believe all the people here who are saying they loved WD as kids. I never read the book or watched the movie and I was STILL traumatized by a brief description of the story.
No no no. There is violence in WD but it is a hero tale, an obvious retelling of the Odyssey and other similar tales. The rabbits band together, travel through fearsome country, survive on their wits, and triumph.
And parts of it are quite charming and funny. It is extremely English in its humor and dryness and love of the countryside, which for an Anglophile kid like me, was aces.
It is not a grim book at all (unlike Plague Dogs).
It is a wonderful book and I have read two paperback versions to pieces, myself. You should give it a try.
Adams may be one of the most uneven writers I've ever read; WD is his best work, Plague Dogs his darkest, and everything else is all over the map and in my opinion hardly come close to WD in terms of story and quality.
posted by emjaybee at 11:57 AM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
No no no. There is violence in WD but it is a hero tale, an obvious retelling of the Odyssey and other similar tales. The rabbits band together, travel through fearsome country, survive on their wits, and triumph.
And parts of it are quite charming and funny. It is extremely English in its humor and dryness and love of the countryside, which for an Anglophile kid like me, was aces.
It is not a grim book at all (unlike Plague Dogs).
It is a wonderful book and I have read two paperback versions to pieces, myself. You should give it a try.
Adams may be one of the most uneven writers I've ever read; WD is his best work, Plague Dogs his darkest, and everything else is all over the map and in my opinion hardly come close to WD in terms of story and quality.
posted by emjaybee at 11:57 AM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
because of this thread I just had a used book micro-spree, picking up, among other things, the exact edition of Watership Down that I'd first checked out of the West Haven (CT) Public Library. I love you, the internet.
posted by jtron at 12:05 PM on August 16, 2010
posted by jtron at 12:05 PM on August 16, 2010
Right, WD didn't shy away from violence and from the fact that not all rabbits are very nice people. It was real in a way that the crap that teachers kept giving me to read wasn't. It insulted neither my reading level nor my maturity (which I'm quite sure was far below what I thought it was at 9, but, none the less, I knew the world was not all rainbows and kittens). It was a challenge at times, but I ate that up.
For a socially awkward, smart kid reading above grade level, WD was the first book that I could socially understand that was also at my reading level. There was nothing like it until Ender's Game came out.
His other stuff...emjaybee is right. He's all over the map. But for about 8 years, I slowly reread WD once a year and savored every word. It was the one book I didn't have to compromise on.
And the heroes were the geeky rabbits.
posted by QIbHom at 12:10 PM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
For a socially awkward, smart kid reading above grade level, WD was the first book that I could socially understand that was also at my reading level. There was nothing like it until Ender's Game came out.
His other stuff...emjaybee is right. He's all over the map. But for about 8 years, I slowly reread WD once a year and savored every word. It was the one book I didn't have to compromise on.
And the heroes were the geeky rabbits.
posted by QIbHom at 12:10 PM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also: Watership Down is a real place, and according to Wikipedia is owned mostly by Andrew Lloyd Webber so the cats have probably eaten all the rabbits by now
Watership Down was one of my favorite childhood books as well, although I had already seen the movie in the theater by the time I read it. And I would dearly love to visit the real Watership Down someday.
I have to wonder what would happen to the real Watership Down, had it been located in the United States rather than the UK. And I can only conclude that it would be purchased by a developer who would put a subdivision of McMansions called Watership Down Estates right on top of it, along with a WalMart and a Starbucks right next to the main road. There would even be a special playground with rabbit-themed equipment for the kids. ugh.
posted by smoothvirus at 12:20 PM on August 16, 2010
Watership Down was one of my favorite childhood books as well, although I had already seen the movie in the theater by the time I read it. And I would dearly love to visit the real Watership Down someday.
I have to wonder what would happen to the real Watership Down, had it been located in the United States rather than the UK. And I can only conclude that it would be purchased by a developer who would put a subdivision of McMansions called Watership Down Estates right on top of it, along with a WalMart and a Starbucks right next to the main road. There would even be a special playground with rabbit-themed equipment for the kids. ugh.
posted by smoothvirus at 12:20 PM on August 16, 2010
No no no. There is violence in WD but it is a hero tale, an obvious retelling of the Odyssey and other similar tales.
In particular, the major plot points are quite close to those of The Aeneid, as discussed previously here on mefi. Adams was a great student of the classics; among other things, his autobiography mentions that he always felt more affinity with the Greek gods than the Christian God.
That said, he also made it very clear that Watership Down wasn't meant to be an allegory for anything. It is what it is. His introduction to the latest paperback edition practically begs people to stop reading things into it: "I want to emphasize that Watership Down was never intended to be some sort of allegory or parable. It is simply the story about rabbits made up and told in the car."
posted by vorfeed at 12:24 PM on August 16, 2010
In particular, the major plot points are quite close to those of The Aeneid, as discussed previously here on mefi. Adams was a great student of the classics; among other things, his autobiography mentions that he always felt more affinity with the Greek gods than the Christian God.
That said, he also made it very clear that Watership Down wasn't meant to be an allegory for anything. It is what it is. His introduction to the latest paperback edition practically begs people to stop reading things into it: "I want to emphasize that Watership Down was never intended to be some sort of allegory or parable. It is simply the story about rabbits made up and told in the car."
posted by vorfeed at 12:24 PM on August 16, 2010
Just wanted to do a mention here of "Traveller", Adams' take on the Civil War through the eyes of Robert E Lee's horse.
posted by The otter lady at 12:26 PM on August 16, 2010
posted by The otter lady at 12:26 PM on August 16, 2010
We shy away from "trauma" these days, calling life out as trauma far too often, protecting our children from the realization that life just isn't always fair, right, or happy, and I think it's a real disservice we do.
I was traumatized, in a manner of speaking, as a child by watching The Red Balloon, Bless the Beasts and Children, Snoopy Come Home, Testament, and the now seldom-shown ABC Stage 67 performance of A Christmas Memory starring the glorious Geraldine Page as Sook, with an ending that has never failed, in some thirty-two years of repeat watchings, to leave me crying. The latter was a piece of literature championed by my father, and his loss, thirteen years ago, just made it all the more real for me.
The thing is, I am better for all that trauma. I am more willing to be compassionate to those I don't understand, and more likely to stand against injustice and cruelty. There's something we lose when we shy away from sadness, loss, and fear all the time, feeding ourselves and those around us a false world of happy endings and easy solutions. It's the most natural thing in the world to run away from pain, but when we do, and when we become habituated to running away from pain, we lose all the lessons to be found there. This is true for adults and children, as well.
The ending of The Plague Dogs is a punch in the gut, and having revisited it after reading this post, I'm glad I have a lock on my door here in my office. Still, as stark and unbearably sad as it is, it does me good to remember that the world is brutal in its indifference to our needs and a cold, hard, and often miserable place for us, but that's just a part of the world, just a part. My head spins from stories like this one, but that's my mind working, and my heart beating, and lessons learned and understanding furthered, and it all just goes on, the way these things do.
posted by sonascope at 12:48 PM on August 16, 2010 [15 favorites]
I was traumatized, in a manner of speaking, as a child by watching The Red Balloon, Bless the Beasts and Children, Snoopy Come Home, Testament, and the now seldom-shown ABC Stage 67 performance of A Christmas Memory starring the glorious Geraldine Page as Sook, with an ending that has never failed, in some thirty-two years of repeat watchings, to leave me crying. The latter was a piece of literature championed by my father, and his loss, thirteen years ago, just made it all the more real for me.
The thing is, I am better for all that trauma. I am more willing to be compassionate to those I don't understand, and more likely to stand against injustice and cruelty. There's something we lose when we shy away from sadness, loss, and fear all the time, feeding ourselves and those around us a false world of happy endings and easy solutions. It's the most natural thing in the world to run away from pain, but when we do, and when we become habituated to running away from pain, we lose all the lessons to be found there. This is true for adults and children, as well.
The ending of The Plague Dogs is a punch in the gut, and having revisited it after reading this post, I'm glad I have a lock on my door here in my office. Still, as stark and unbearably sad as it is, it does me good to remember that the world is brutal in its indifference to our needs and a cold, hard, and often miserable place for us, but that's just a part of the world, just a part. My head spins from stories like this one, but that's my mind working, and my heart beating, and lessons learned and understanding furthered, and it all just goes on, the way these things do.
posted by sonascope at 12:48 PM on August 16, 2010 [15 favorites]
**headslap** argh said "Odyssey" meant "Aeneid". Thanks vorfeed.
posted by emjaybee at 1:06 PM on August 16, 2010
posted by emjaybee at 1:06 PM on August 16, 2010
I was traumatized, in a manner of speaking, as a child by watching The Red Balloon...
Worth noting that The Red Balloon is also on netflix's streaming library, and a classic children's short for very good reason.
I never did see the Plague Dogs movie, but I read the book when I was probably eleven-twelvish, and remember it just about breaking me, in a story-trauma-is-good way as elucidated wonderfully above.
posted by Drastic at 1:07 PM on August 16, 2010
Worth noting that The Red Balloon is also on netflix's streaming library, and a classic children's short for very good reason.
I never did see the Plague Dogs movie, but I read the book when I was probably eleven-twelvish, and remember it just about breaking me, in a story-trauma-is-good way as elucidated wonderfully above.
posted by Drastic at 1:07 PM on August 16, 2010
There's something we lose when we shy away from sadness, loss, and fear all the time, feeding ourselves and those around us a false world of happy endings and easy solutions. It's the most natural thing in the world to run away from pain, but when we do, and when we become habituated to running away from pain, we lose all the lessons to be found there. This is true for adults and children, as well.
This is very true. My mother teaches high school, and sometimes has to explain to seventeen and eighteen-year-old teens (adults, really!) that no, you cannot "be whatever you want to be" unless you put in the work. These are D and F students who don't show up to class, don't do classwork when they do show up, and in many cases cannot read much above a fifth-grade level, yet fervently believe that they are shortly to become lawyers and doctors. That's what society has told them, after all... and for young people who believe the vicious lie of "self-esteem", the transition to adulthood can be much, much more traumatizing than anything in Watership Down.
posted by vorfeed at 1:35 PM on August 16, 2010
This is very true. My mother teaches high school, and sometimes has to explain to seventeen and eighteen-year-old teens (adults, really!) that no, you cannot "be whatever you want to be" unless you put in the work. These are D and F students who don't show up to class, don't do classwork when they do show up, and in many cases cannot read much above a fifth-grade level, yet fervently believe that they are shortly to become lawyers and doctors. That's what society has told them, after all... and for young people who believe the vicious lie of "self-esteem", the transition to adulthood can be much, much more traumatizing than anything in Watership Down.
posted by vorfeed at 1:35 PM on August 16, 2010
I was so confused. And then I realized that Watership Down is not the same book, or by the same author, as Redwall.
posted by Narual at 1:43 PM on August 16, 2010
posted by Narual at 1:43 PM on August 16, 2010
I loved Watership Down. I saw Plague Dogs was by the same guy, hadn't read the book, and was all "Hot damn, let's watch this!" Man, I just sort of walked around in a miserable torpor for about six hours after that. I didn't even talk for an hour afterward. Amazing movie, but not a well I'd go back to time and time again.
posted by absalom at 2:02 PM on August 16, 2010
posted by absalom at 2:02 PM on August 16, 2010
may the black rabbit come for cursed white coats
posted by hatefull at 2:12 PM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by hatefull at 2:12 PM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I read chapters to my retired research beagle* as a bedtime story....you know, like telling her about the boogeymen of yore, and she better be good. Usually she just tries to eat the corners off it and licks and nuzzles me into giving up. Dammit, this is a teaching moment, little dog!
*the life of a beagle whose job was to eat food and trot on a treadmill is tough indeed. I think the only real improvement nowadays is the sharp increase in available couches for napping.
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 2:42 PM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
*the life of a beagle whose job was to eat food and trot on a treadmill is tough indeed. I think the only real improvement nowadays is the sharp increase in available couches for napping.
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 2:42 PM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
In The Stand by Stephen King there is this sub-story about the guy who is not really interested in books, who buys a copy of Watership Down for his niece, and because he is bored he opens it and starts reading, and then cannot put it down until he finishes it, wondering about the power of a story about bunnies..
posted by ovvl at 3:04 PM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by ovvl at 3:04 PM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Actually, when I was 12, in the depths of winter, my father came home and said that my mother, brother and sister had been in a car accident, and me and my other siblings went to our cousins' house nearby. After dinner I wasn't interested in watching television, so I went into their quiet parlor. There was a copy of Watership Down on the table, so I sat down in an armchair and stayed there all night. I read to the getting before the end part before I slept, but I borrowed it and finished the story the next day.
My mom and my sister were shaken and bruised but okay, and came home the next day. My brother was in the hospital for a bit, and one of our uncles gave him the first copy of National Lampoon we would read.
They were in a loaner car from the service station while our usual Buick was being fixed. It was an ancient 50's convertible. Mom drove through an unguarded rural train crossing in a blizzard, and the force of the unexpected train hitting the car propelled all three of them through the canvas roof into a snowbank. This scenario is difficult for me to imagine.
When I listened to the Emerson Lake and Palmer Live Triple album, I would imagine the synthesizer shrieks on that one song to be like the bolts of lightning coming down in the thunderstorm when the bunnies make their break run from the Efrafa.
posted by ovvl at 3:28 PM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
My mom and my sister were shaken and bruised but okay, and came home the next day. My brother was in the hospital for a bit, and one of our uncles gave him the first copy of National Lampoon we would read.
They were in a loaner car from the service station while our usual Buick was being fixed. It was an ancient 50's convertible. Mom drove through an unguarded rural train crossing in a blizzard, and the force of the unexpected train hitting the car propelled all three of them through the canvas roof into a snowbank. This scenario is difficult for me to imagine.
When I listened to the Emerson Lake and Palmer Live Triple album, I would imagine the synthesizer shrieks on that one song to be like the bolts of lightning coming down in the thunderstorm when the bunnies make their break run from the Efrafa.
posted by ovvl at 3:28 PM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
. . . none of that confusing sex stuff that most adult books were laced with.
I certainly hope that, as a kid, you never looked at a library shelf for more of Richard Adams' books and thought: "Here's one -- Maia! This looks good!" Because that's what I did. Thankfully, I was a grownup at the time, so the damage wasn't permanent, but dang, that book was bad, George Phblat's "Benji Saves the Universe" kind of bad. He's very, very good at worldbuilding, and very, very bad at sex and women.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:59 PM on August 16, 2010
I certainly hope that, as a kid, you never looked at a library shelf for more of Richard Adams' books and thought: "Here's one -- Maia! This looks good!" Because that's what I did. Thankfully, I was a grownup at the time, so the damage wasn't permanent, but dang, that book was bad, George Phblat's "Benji Saves the Universe" kind of bad. He's very, very good at worldbuilding, and very, very bad at sex and women.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:59 PM on August 16, 2010
I don't think, considering the comments here, that I could watch this movie. As a kid I read The Bears and I. It traumatized me. I am not good at this kind of stuff.
posted by Splunge at 5:00 PM on August 16, 2010
posted by Splunge at 5:00 PM on August 16, 2010
Yeah, I don't think I could watch Plague Dogs again. Even thinking about it gets me going.
But Watership Down is a rare and beautiful book in my opinion. As said upthread, it didn't condescend to the reader and gave you the feeling you were privileged to see into another world. As a young kid, it taught me empathy and thrilled me with its secrets--ideas for which I maybe wasn't yet ready. And each time I read it, it made more and more sense.
posted by Kafkaesque at 5:37 PM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
But Watership Down is a rare and beautiful book in my opinion. As said upthread, it didn't condescend to the reader and gave you the feeling you were privileged to see into another world. As a young kid, it taught me empathy and thrilled me with its secrets--ideas for which I maybe wasn't yet ready. And each time I read it, it made more and more sense.
posted by Kafkaesque at 5:37 PM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
According to Wikipedia, the happy ending to the book was tacked on later.
I'm pretty sure I have the first English edition at home, so I'll check this later today.
I checked, and while the last chapter of the Allen Lane 1977 edition doesn't have the "colloquy between the author and his reader" or the excerpt from Who's Who, it does end with the dogs being rescued, same as later editions do. So unless AL '77 isn't the first edition, which seems unlikely, wikipedia is wrong (no! surely not!)
I suppose Adams added the colloquy and Who's Who to soften the blow a little; having the dogs' death and the beginning of their bizarre rescue on the same page is more than a little jarring.
posted by vorfeed at 6:07 PM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty sure I have the first English edition at home, so I'll check this later today.
I checked, and while the last chapter of the Allen Lane 1977 edition doesn't have the "colloquy between the author and his reader" or the excerpt from Who's Who, it does end with the dogs being rescued, same as later editions do. So unless AL '77 isn't the first edition, which seems unlikely, wikipedia is wrong (no! surely not!)
I suppose Adams added the colloquy and Who's Who to soften the blow a little; having the dogs' death and the beginning of their bizarre rescue on the same page is more than a little jarring.
posted by vorfeed at 6:07 PM on August 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think there isn't enough trauma in kids' lives today. Seriously. Trauma is what gets us to be really dedicated to something. People have so much trouble nowadays figuring out what to do with their lives. If they didn't have it so easy growing up, maybe they would know better what they want to do.
posted by cman at 10:32 PM on August 16, 2010
posted by cman at 10:32 PM on August 16, 2010
Countess Elena: "I certainly hope that, as a kid, you never looked at a library shelf for more of Richard Adams' books and thought: "Here's one -- Maia! This looks good!" Because that's what I did. Thankfully, I was a grownup at the time, so the damage wasn't permanent, but dang, that book was bad, George Phblat's "Benji Saves the Universe" kind of bad. He's very, very good at worldbuilding, and very, very bad at sex and women."
Um...I did. It confused me, but didn't traumatize me. It was just kind of boring.
Adams never did grok females, but, then again, neither did Tolkein. The kind of gender translation smart girls have to do was so reflexive by the time I was 9 that I didn't notice I was doing it (until I accidentally ended up at a women's college, another story entirely).
posted by QIbHom at 6:05 AM on August 17, 2010
Um...I did. It confused me, but didn't traumatize me. It was just kind of boring.
Adams never did grok females, but, then again, neither did Tolkein. The kind of gender translation smart girls have to do was so reflexive by the time I was 9 that I didn't notice I was doing it (until I accidentally ended up at a women's college, another story entirely).
posted by QIbHom at 6:05 AM on August 17, 2010
DU, Watership Down was my bible as a kid (and to this day), to the point where I cannot imagine what my life would be like without it. I got my first copy at the next-door neighbor's yard sale, at the age of eight, and adored it from the start. I was an advanced reader already, but Watership Down was the book that catapulted me out of the kids section and into the adult stacks! It was wonderful, and not traumatizing in the least... except in a wonderful way, I suppose.
Not everyone is bothered by the same things. Hell, I'd already read plenty of Kipling, the Brothers Grimm, and Aesop's fables... and I guess I've been a morbid sort since very early on, anyway. If anything, Watership Down was a balm to me, because it taught me that I could make it through adversity with determination, cleverness, and an occasional bit of lateral thinking.
That was a damn fine lesson for an unpopular kid to learn, and it's one I've never forgotten.
This.
Also, watership down was the first time I realized that not everyone could win.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 6:43 AM on August 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Not everyone is bothered by the same things. Hell, I'd already read plenty of Kipling, the Brothers Grimm, and Aesop's fables... and I guess I've been a morbid sort since very early on, anyway. If anything, Watership Down was a balm to me, because it taught me that I could make it through adversity with determination, cleverness, and an occasional bit of lateral thinking.
That was a damn fine lesson for an unpopular kid to learn, and it's one I've never forgotten.
This.
Also, watership down was the first time I realized that not everyone could win.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 6:43 AM on August 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Dear MeFi,
This past week, I was wondering what the heck this animated dog movie that struck me as really weird and disturbing as a kid was. And here is my answer.
You are awesome.
Love,
-B
posted by bfranklin at 12:47 PM on August 17, 2010
This past week, I was wondering what the heck this animated dog movie that struck me as really weird and disturbing as a kid was. And here is my answer.
You are awesome.
Love,
-B
posted by bfranklin at 12:47 PM on August 17, 2010
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