Cam Newton
November 18, 2010 10:30 AM Subscribe
Even if you're not a college football fan, you may have recently heard of Cam Newton. That's because, apart from being the most exciting and dynamic college football player this year, Newton has been dogged in the press by accusations that, during the recruitment process, Newton's father tried to squeeze $180,000 out of Mississippi State coaches and boosters in return for his son's enrollment. Ultimately, Mississippi State declined the "offer" and Newton decided to enroll at Auburn where, he claimed, "the money was just too great." Newton is still playing for the undefeated Auburn Tigers, who are attempting a run at the national title. Additionally, Newton himself is seen as the front-runner in the competition for the Heisman Trophy. But until the NCAA wraps up its investigation and declares Newton ineligible, the decision of whether or not to play Newton is in the hands of Auburn. Some people think that regardless of what Auburn does, they are headed for ruin and a heap of trouble. What kind of trouble? The kind of trouble that involves the FBI, money laundering, gambling (and gambling fraud), collusion, and a conspiracy to funnel cash to players that would be unrivaled in modern sports.
BTW - I fully expect you to be right - I just think the tone is maybe a little too certain of the outcome.
posted by JPD at 10:35 AM on November 18, 2010
posted by JPD at 10:35 AM on November 18, 2010
Well, JPD, let's see...
You click on the last link and it's a post from an LSU fan that begins: "NOTE: I PREFACE ALL OF THIS BY SAYING I CANNOT NOR HAVE NOT VERIFIED ANY OF THE INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN."
Forgive me, but I didn't feel the need to read any further.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 10:36 AM on November 18, 2010 [4 favorites]
You click on the last link and it's a post from an LSU fan that begins: "NOTE: I PREFACE ALL OF THIS BY SAYING I CANNOT NOR HAVE NOT VERIFIED ANY OF THE INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN."
Forgive me, but I didn't feel the need to read any further.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 10:36 AM on November 18, 2010 [4 favorites]
No editorializing. If I wanted to editorialize I'd say that that LSU message board link is the most fascinating thing I've seen on the internet in a long, long time. If it were a John Grisham novel, nobody would believe it.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:36 AM on November 18, 2010
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:36 AM on November 18, 2010
"Even if you're not a college football fan"
Actually, this crap is exactly why I'm NOT a college football fan. IMHO, in the major conferences, it's all about the money, it's not about the tradition, the sport, or your alma mater.
posted by HuronBob at 10:36 AM on November 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
Actually, this crap is exactly why I'm NOT a college football fan. IMHO, in the major conferences, it's all about the money, it's not about the tradition, the sport, or your alma mater.
posted by HuronBob at 10:36 AM on November 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
Whoa! I hate football - hates, hates, hates it so - but a great post on this subject.
posted by Old'n'Busted at 10:37 AM on November 18, 2010
posted by Old'n'Busted at 10:37 AM on November 18, 2010
And that last link is utterly idiotic. Not only is it totally lacking in real evidence, it hardly rates in the top 25 SEC scandals of the last 50 years. Hell it might not even be top 25 for the state of Alabama.
posted by JPD at 10:38 AM on November 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by JPD at 10:38 AM on November 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
If the mods want to change the part about "when" the NCAA deems his to be ineligible to "if" he is deemed ineligible, that's fine by me. I should have written that sentence a little less demonstratively, you're correct.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:38 AM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:38 AM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
JPD, I find it hard to believe you read that last link in three minutes.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:40 AM on November 18, 2010
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:40 AM on November 18, 2010
I mean an LSU board to say something about Auburn. Ok this is really for the non-SEC/College Football fans out there - That's about as credible a source as some insane tea party blog would be on Obama's place of birth.
posted by JPD at 10:40 AM on November 18, 2010
posted by JPD at 10:40 AM on November 18, 2010
Sigh, my University of Minnesota WISHES we could cheat this badly.
posted by Think_Long at 10:46 AM on November 18, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Think_Long at 10:46 AM on November 18, 2010 [5 favorites]
Not only is it totally lacking in real evidence, it hardly rates in the top 25 SEC scandals of the last 50 years. Hell it might not even be top 25 for the state of Alabama.
Oh come on. If this was about, I dunno, a star wide receiver at Ole Miss or the starting left tackle for Arkansas? Fine. But we're talking about the pivotal player for a national title contender (without whom Auburn would be at best a middling SEC team) and the front-runner for the Heisman.
posted by kmz at 10:46 AM on November 18, 2010
Oh come on. If this was about, I dunno, a star wide receiver at Ole Miss or the starting left tackle for Arkansas? Fine. But we're talking about the pivotal player for a national title contender (without whom Auburn would be at best a middling SEC team) and the front-runner for the Heisman.
posted by kmz at 10:46 AM on November 18, 2010
Sigh, my University of Minnesota WISHES we could cheat this badly.
SEC, baby.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:47 AM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
SEC, baby.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:47 AM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
JPD, I find it hard to believe you read that last link in three minutes.
Man I've spent enough time on these boards to know its a total waste of time. All you need to know is Cam Newton singlehandedly beat LSU to know that reading an LSU board on the topic is not worth the time. and they use a 'Bama board to support their arguments. Hillarious. Its like a crazy zionist and a tea partier coming together to fight Barry
If your point is that SEC football is insanely dirty then do a post on that. Don't use Cam Newton as your entree. I mean Bobby Lowder alone is just an awesome angle. That guys caught up in everything bad about america.
posted by JPD at 10:47 AM on November 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
Man I've spent enough time on these boards to know its a total waste of time. All you need to know is Cam Newton singlehandedly beat LSU to know that reading an LSU board on the topic is not worth the time. and they use a 'Bama board to support their arguments. Hillarious. Its like a crazy zionist and a tea partier coming together to fight Barry
If your point is that SEC football is insanely dirty then do a post on that. Don't use Cam Newton as your entree. I mean Bobby Lowder alone is just an awesome angle. That guys caught up in everything bad about america.
posted by JPD at 10:47 AM on November 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
Not only is it totally lacking in real evidence . . .
The FBI would beg to differ with you.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:48 AM on November 18, 2010
The FBI would beg to differ with you.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:48 AM on November 18, 2010
See, its stuff like:
This goes way beyond Cam. They say the FBI, while monitoring the Bingo mess in Montgomery and also investigating the misappropriation of TARP funds by Colonial Bank, uncovered many, many things. Such things include guaranteed winning slot machines for AU players at Milt’s (Colonial Board member, AU Booster) Casino, unmarked ATM cards issued to AU players from Colonial Bank (Bobby Lowder-AU Board Member and Booster; Pat Dye-Colonial Board member, AU employee and Booster), forgiven loans to families, friends, donors, etc.
This needs to have citation and evidence. It's lengthy, and very well tied together, but by what? How is this not just the hyperactive accusations of a fan with too much time on his/her hands?
I'll admit, I read the link anyways. There are some VERY strong allegations there, and if all of it has "they say..." or "[I]f true..." and you continue to compound on the hearsay with more hearsay and support your assumptions with indirect facts, it's just... well...
Exactly what I would expect from the deep South.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 10:50 AM on November 18, 2010
This goes way beyond Cam. They say the FBI, while monitoring the Bingo mess in Montgomery and also investigating the misappropriation of TARP funds by Colonial Bank, uncovered many, many things. Such things include guaranteed winning slot machines for AU players at Milt’s (Colonial Board member, AU Booster) Casino, unmarked ATM cards issued to AU players from Colonial Bank (Bobby Lowder-AU Board Member and Booster; Pat Dye-Colonial Board member, AU employee and Booster), forgiven loans to families, friends, donors, etc.
This needs to have citation and evidence. It's lengthy, and very well tied together, but by what? How is this not just the hyperactive accusations of a fan with too much time on his/her hands?
I'll admit, I read the link anyways. There are some VERY strong allegations there, and if all of it has "they say..." or "[I]f true..." and you continue to compound on the hearsay with more hearsay and support your assumptions with indirect facts, it's just... well...
Exactly what I would expect from the deep South.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 10:50 AM on November 18, 2010
If your point is that SEC football is insanely dirty then do a post on that. Don't use Cam Newton as your entree. I mean Bobby Lowder alone is just an awesome angle. That guys caught up in everything bad about america.
I don't how many different ways I can say it: read the link. It's not really about Cam Newton.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:50 AM on November 18, 2010
I don't how many different ways I can say it: read the link. It's not really about Cam Newton.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:50 AM on November 18, 2010
BTW. Just so you don't get the wrong idea... I think Cam Newton, his father, and Auburn certainly did some shitty shit and they're gonna get the book thrown at them. I just don't think it involves the Illuminati, or what-have-ya.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 10:51 AM on November 18, 2010
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 10:51 AM on November 18, 2010
Sick and tired of the fake amateurs in NCAA sports. Just pay the players so I don't have to hear about this shit anymore. Don't care. The whole system is corrupt.
posted by zzazazz at 10:52 AM on November 18, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by zzazazz at 10:52 AM on November 18, 2010 [4 favorites]
I don't how many different ways I can say it: read the link. It's not really about Cam Newton.
Half right. It's not only about Cam Newton. It's about a supposed decade+ laundering operation and the Cam Newton deal is something supposedly uncovered as a bare thread. At least, that's what I'm getting.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 10:55 AM on November 18, 2010
Half right. It's not only about Cam Newton. It's about a supposed decade+ laundering operation and the Cam Newton deal is something supposedly uncovered as a bare thread. At least, that's what I'm getting.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 10:55 AM on November 18, 2010
Oh come on. If this was about, I dunno, a star wide receiver at Ole Miss or the starting left tackle for Arkansas? Fine. But we're talking about the pivotal player for a national title contender (without whom Auburn would be at best a middling SEC team) and the front-runner for the Heisman.
Yes Newton is a star, but in the grand scheme of SEC scandals paying a player to come to a school is almost a violation rather than a misdemenor or a felony. Unlike most of these scandals really the accusations are limited just to Newton - by SEC standards that's nothing.
Note: this is commentary on how dirty the SEC is, not saying Newton shouldn't be ineligible if the accusations are true. I am a Florida fan in the spirit of full disclosure (I am originally from Northern Florida) We had a player sent a text to a woman saying "time to die" and he's still on the team, so certainly I think the team I support is just as shady.
posted by JPD at 10:56 AM on November 18, 2010
Yes Newton is a star, but in the grand scheme of SEC scandals paying a player to come to a school is almost a violation rather than a misdemenor or a felony. Unlike most of these scandals really the accusations are limited just to Newton - by SEC standards that's nothing.
Note: this is commentary on how dirty the SEC is, not saying Newton shouldn't be ineligible if the accusations are true. I am a Florida fan in the spirit of full disclosure (I am originally from Northern Florida) We had a player sent a text to a woman saying "time to die" and he's still on the team, so certainly I think the team I support is just as shady.
posted by JPD at 10:56 AM on November 18, 2010
Sigh, my University of Minnesota WISHES we could cheat this badly.
posted by Think_Long
Nah, the U's football program exists to study the cultivation frustrating incompetence on the field and in the front office; the results of this research is then passed on to the Vikings and Timberwolves organizations for implementation. It's a research school doing what it does best.
posted by COBRA! at 10:56 AM on November 18, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by Think_Long
Nah, the U's football program exists to study the cultivation frustrating incompetence on the field and in the front office; the results of this research is then passed on to the Vikings and Timberwolves organizations for implementation. It's a research school doing what it does best.
posted by COBRA! at 10:56 AM on November 18, 2010 [10 favorites]
I don't how many different ways I can say it: read the link. It's not really about Cam Newton.
so then make a post about Bobby Lowder
posted by JPD at 10:57 AM on November 18, 2010
so then make a post about Bobby Lowder
posted by JPD at 10:57 AM on November 18, 2010
It's about a supposed decade+ laundering operation and the Cam Newton deal is something supposedly uncovered as a bare thread. At least, that's what I'm getting.
Yes. The interesting angle here is that the FBI stumbled into the whole Cam Newton mess only because of the wiretapped conversations they recorded while investigating the dirty casinos and gambling fraud. Like I said, it's not about Newton.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:59 AM on November 18, 2010
Yes. The interesting angle here is that the FBI stumbled into the whole Cam Newton mess only because of the wiretapped conversations they recorded while investigating the dirty casinos and gambling fraud. Like I said, it's not about Newton.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:59 AM on November 18, 2010
Auburn is one star-crossed team.
Still, I'm rooting for them for the rest of the year; the SEC needs to continue its recent run of pure dominance over the rest of college football.
posted by oddman at 10:59 AM on November 18, 2010
Still, I'm rooting for them for the rest of the year; the SEC needs to continue its recent run of pure dominance over the rest of college football.
posted by oddman at 10:59 AM on November 18, 2010
Sigh, my University of Minnesota WISHES we could cheat this badly.
My alma mater, THE Ohio State University, does cheat this badly. The difference is that we get away with it.
I have no proof that THE Ohio State University cheats, but seriously, just about all of the major programs do. Everyone who pays attention to college football knows this.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 11:01 AM on November 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
My alma mater, THE Ohio State University, does cheat this badly. The difference is that we get away with it.
I have no proof that THE Ohio State University cheats, but seriously, just about all of the major programs do. Everyone who pays attention to college football knows this.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 11:01 AM on November 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
Like I said, it's not about Newton.
Dude the title of your post is "Cam Newton". Your Lede is "Even if you're not a college football fan, you may have recently heard of Cam Newton."
BTW EDSBS has the best comment on the insane tiger droppings thing: "A SAGA SO CONVOLUTED IT EITHER IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT OR TOTALLY TRUE. Like all grand work of conspiratorial delirium, the TigerDroppings thread on Auburn's pseudo-history of corruption in the name of profit and football is insane, insanely detailed, sewn together from a pot of half-truths, real stories, and fiction, and then presented as whole cloth. Robert Anton Wilson's dead ass is very, very impressed. (If you looked at the donors for most schools you'll kick over a log and find some very nasty fat grubs feasting beneath all that dead lumber. Yes, even Michigan.)"
posted by JPD at 11:01 AM on November 18, 2010
Dude the title of your post is "Cam Newton". Your Lede is "Even if you're not a college football fan, you may have recently heard of Cam Newton."
BTW EDSBS has the best comment on the insane tiger droppings thing: "A SAGA SO CONVOLUTED IT EITHER IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT OR TOTALLY TRUE. Like all grand work of conspiratorial delirium, the TigerDroppings thread on Auburn's pseudo-history of corruption in the name of profit and football is insane, insanely detailed, sewn together from a pot of half-truths, real stories, and fiction, and then presented as whole cloth. Robert Anton Wilson's dead ass is very, very impressed. (If you looked at the donors for most schools you'll kick over a log and find some very nasty fat grubs feasting beneath all that dead lumber. Yes, even Michigan.)"
posted by JPD at 11:01 AM on November 18, 2010
Cam Newton is an amazing, talented athlete. Boy, it would suck if he and Auburn got burned for shenanigans. You can bet that there are squads of alumni from other schools doing their dead level best to ensure that the feces get smeared far and wide.
posted by Xoebe at 11:03 AM on November 18, 2010
posted by Xoebe at 11:03 AM on November 18, 2010
JPD, I'll back out of the thread now - don't want to be posting every other comment. My intention was to craft a post about Cam Newton that discussed the potential fall-out that was waiting for Auburn University. My post was about Newton (and Auburn), but the last link was about something far greater - a grand conspiracy. The fact that it was posted to the message of a rival SEC team made it, in my eyes, even more spectacular. And, yes, as you just posted, it's either all true or it's all junk, and either way, it's fascinating to me that someone spent the time and energy connecting all the dots. If it's true it deserves a Pulitzer, and if it's false, it deserves an award for fiction. Either way, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the post.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:05 AM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:05 AM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
The only scam here is not paying college football players in the first place. They are run as for-profit enterprises, selling millions in tickets and merch. Those players have to work hard for years and for what? A chance to play in the NFL that most won't get?
The whole thing is BS.
posted by delmoi at 11:10 AM on November 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
The whole thing is BS.
posted by delmoi at 11:10 AM on November 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
Anything to improve the chance of TCU or Boise State getting in the national championship game. (Actually, I'll go further and hope that this brings down the entire BCS and replaces it with a playoff system. I'd also like a pony.)
posted by thewittyname at 11:15 AM on November 18, 2010
posted by thewittyname at 11:15 AM on November 18, 2010
The fact its on the message board of a rival SEC team virtually guarantees that it is probably big pieces of truth leavened with grand conspiracy theories that if true virtually guarantee their heated rival will be destroyed in a way that would make the Roman Legions at Carthage say something like "whoa that's a bit harsh" You might not have realized that when your wrote your post. I'm guessing that's the case.
My intention was to craft a post about Cam Newton that discussed the potential fall-out that was waiting for Auburn University. My post was about Newton (and Auburn), but the last link was about something far greater
wait I thought you just said it wasn't about Newton?
posted by JPD at 11:16 AM on November 18, 2010
My intention was to craft a post about Cam Newton that discussed the potential fall-out that was waiting for Auburn University. My post was about Newton (and Auburn), but the last link was about something far greater
wait I thought you just said it wasn't about Newton?
posted by JPD at 11:16 AM on November 18, 2010
The link that I keep requesting you read is not really about Newton.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:17 AM on November 18, 2010
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:17 AM on November 18, 2010
It's a research school doing what it does best.
DRIVEN TO DISCOVER BABY
/ end derail
posted by Think_Long at 11:17 AM on November 18, 2010
DRIVEN TO DISCOVER BABY
/ end derail
posted by Think_Long at 11:17 AM on November 18, 2010
The link that I keep requesting you read is not really about Newton.
yes I know - I actually read it via EDSBS this morning.
posted by JPD at 11:19 AM on November 18, 2010
yes I know - I actually read it via EDSBS this morning.
posted by JPD at 11:19 AM on November 18, 2010
I am a college football fan, and while I certainly know who Cam Newton is, I could care less about the rest of this story. College sports, particularly football, has been due for a financial shake-up for a loong time. It will come one day ... or it won't, as long as people keep paying.
Big Game! Andrew Luck for Heisman!
That SEC rant on the LSU board is interesting. I'm gonna give it a read when I have some time. So maybe my first statement was hyperbole. This week is ALL HYPERBOLE ALL THE TIME!
posted by mrgrimm at 11:19 AM on November 18, 2010
Big Game! Andrew Luck for Heisman!
That SEC rant on the LSU board is interesting. I'm gonna give it a read when I have some time. So maybe my first statement was hyperbole. This week is ALL HYPERBOLE ALL THE TIME!
posted by mrgrimm at 11:19 AM on November 18, 2010
Wow, if you knew that, then why did keep asking me why I was dragging Cam Newton into it? I don't really understand what I did to make you mock my intelligence and pick apart the reasons for why I wrote the post. I found it interesting and assumed others would, as well. I've tried to be clear as to why I wrote it and why I posted what I posted. Deliberately misreading what I keep writing is starting to get a bit irritating, and an irritated Arsenio is a mean Arsenio. I'll do what I said I would do earlier and back out of the thread now.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:23 AM on November 18, 2010
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:23 AM on November 18, 2010
Your post is Cam Newton took money and is going to be ineligible, and oh BTW there is a batshit crazy LSU thread that says Auburn is gonna burn w/o any context or any discussion of how batshit crazy most college sports message boards are. If you don't realize why that's inappropriate then I can't help you. If you were posting this in a place where most people knew that going in, then the matter would be a little different, but I would imagine the Venn diagram of MeFites and Rivals.com subscribers would look like two circles touching one another.
Listen there IS an awesome post on the whole Bobby Lowder, Colonial Bank, Auburn thing even with the stuff that is in the public record. If that's what you wanted to do a post on then you should have done that.
posted by JPD at 11:35 AM on November 18, 2010
Listen there IS an awesome post on the whole Bobby Lowder, Colonial Bank, Auburn thing even with the stuff that is in the public record. If that's what you wanted to do a post on then you should have done that.
posted by JPD at 11:35 AM on November 18, 2010
Also, did you really say earlier in the thread that you didn't need to read the LSU thread because you knew what would be in it, and then later pipe in and say that you read the link this morning? Strange.
Your post is Cam Newton took money and is going to be ineligible, and oh BTW there is a batshit crazy LSU thread that says Auburn is gonna burn.
Actually, yeah, that's a pretty good description of the post.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:37 AM on November 18, 2010
Your post is Cam Newton took money and is going to be ineligible, and oh BTW there is a batshit crazy LSU thread that says Auburn is gonna burn.
Actually, yeah, that's a pretty good description of the post.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:37 AM on November 18, 2010
"...a star wide receiver at Ole Miss..."
Trick question.
posted by gordie at 11:38 AM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Trick question.
posted by gordie at 11:38 AM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you had said batshit crazy it would be different.
I actually said
Man I've spent enough time on these boards to know its a total waste of time. It is a waste of time. I have plenty of time to waste.
posted by JPD at 11:39 AM on November 18, 2010
I actually said
Man I've spent enough time on these boards to know its a total waste of time. It is a waste of time. I have plenty of time to waste.
posted by JPD at 11:39 AM on November 18, 2010
LSU and Auburn are not quite the equal of the Tea Party and Obama. It's just another divisional SEC opponent against another, which is something, but ... it's not quite LSU vs. Ole Miss historically or LSU vs. Bama over Nick Saban. LSU fans are just the most intense fans in America, undeniably. (And I say this as one who isn't an LSU fan, at all, even if in Louisiana, and finds the continued harping about Saban incredibly silly.)
posted by raysmj at 11:41 AM on November 18, 2010
posted by raysmj at 11:41 AM on November 18, 2010
Man, I'm not usually one for tl;dr, but that LSU message board link starts with a glossary of terms and acronyms. Seriously.
posted by vibrotronica at 11:41 AM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by vibrotronica at 11:41 AM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
and a conspiracy to funnel cash to players that would be unrivaled in modern sports.
Modern US sports, maybe. That whole "college athletes must play for free while generating billions in revenue" scam is a feature of US sports.
posted by rodgerd at 11:49 AM on November 18, 2010
Modern US sports, maybe. That whole "college athletes must play for free while generating billions in revenue" scam is a feature of US sports.
posted by rodgerd at 11:49 AM on November 18, 2010
I'm a lifelong college football fan (go Sooners!) but this year I have been seriously questioning my role in a ridiculous system. It all started with the crazy mostly-abortive conference realignment saga this summer, when ESPN's reporters were breathlessly reporting about the possibility of wholesale realignment of the system while ESPN's executives were breathlessly throwing cash around behind the scenes to make sure that the realignment wasn't too radical and met their financial guidelines.
Then there was the North Carolina agent scandal, the latest example of athletes getting in trouble for doing what everyone else around them-- the coaches, the presidents, the conferences, the ADs, the NFL-- is doing, namely making lots of cash. The hypocrisy is staggering-- the system is set up to encourage cheating, but if they get caught, the only one to face consequences is the athlete. Cam Newton-- case in point, again.
Lastly, again there is the continuing existence of the BCS-- the only NCAA sport with no playoff, simply because of the greed of a very few people in the positions of power. It's maddening.
But even though I feel intellectually that I ought to just give up on the game, because I'm a part of the problem because I watch the shows and go to the games (sometimes) and buy the sweatshirts, I haven't been able to bear it. Why? There's just something more emotionally powerful about college football than any other sport. If you've got 20 minutes, imagine you're me, an eleven year old young football fan, and watch the two videos linked here (if you've got 10, watch part 2 only. If you've got a minute and a half, and don't mind missing the amazing context that this is in, just watch the last play). I just can't imagine a fall without watching my beloved, corrupt, frustrating, impenetrable game. When football is over, Football Season Is Over.
posted by norm at 11:50 AM on November 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
Then there was the North Carolina agent scandal, the latest example of athletes getting in trouble for doing what everyone else around them-- the coaches, the presidents, the conferences, the ADs, the NFL-- is doing, namely making lots of cash. The hypocrisy is staggering-- the system is set up to encourage cheating, but if they get caught, the only one to face consequences is the athlete. Cam Newton-- case in point, again.
Lastly, again there is the continuing existence of the BCS-- the only NCAA sport with no playoff, simply because of the greed of a very few people in the positions of power. It's maddening.
But even though I feel intellectually that I ought to just give up on the game, because I'm a part of the problem because I watch the shows and go to the games (sometimes) and buy the sweatshirts, I haven't been able to bear it. Why? There's just something more emotionally powerful about college football than any other sport. If you've got 20 minutes, imagine you're me, an eleven year old young football fan, and watch the two videos linked here (if you've got 10, watch part 2 only. If you've got a minute and a half, and don't mind missing the amazing context that this is in, just watch the last play). I just can't imagine a fall without watching my beloved, corrupt, frustrating, impenetrable game. When football is over, Football Season Is Over.
posted by norm at 11:50 AM on November 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
I was hoping that this would turn into an interesting thread about whether or not student athletes, should get paid or not, what amateur status means when it amounts to a free farm league for the pros, that sort of thing.
I'm happy give away my position a bit by saying that college players deserve a part of the enormous revenue they generate, particularly when the rest of their ostensible education there is often a sham, and further that this is all kind of a politely ignoring the fact that college sports are in many ways a huge taxpayer subsidy of the professional leagues, one of many they probably shouldn't enjoy.
Can we still have that thread? Or is it too late?
posted by mhoye at 11:52 AM on November 18, 2010 [5 favorites]
I'm happy give away my position a bit by saying that college players deserve a part of the enormous revenue they generate, particularly when the rest of their ostensible education there is often a sham, and further that this is all kind of a politely ignoring the fact that college sports are in many ways a huge taxpayer subsidy of the professional leagues, one of many they probably shouldn't enjoy.
Can we still have that thread? Or is it too late?
posted by mhoye at 11:52 AM on November 18, 2010 [5 favorites]
Knowing SEC football, nothing will happen. MAYBE the NCAA will come back 5yrs from now and vacate some wins and hand out probation like they just did to Reggie Bush, but this is how the world works. Kids get paid by schools. The don't go to class. If they go to class, other people do thier work for them or they just get flat out fraudlent grades. Everyone knows it. The NCAA even knows it, and they make too much money off the bowls and the undefeated team hype to stop it in realtime, or really to make more than a token effort to stop it. Once a season theyll make an example, with some program not quite in the center of the sport, like this year with UNC. You're telling me that they didnt know that Reggie Bush lived in a $6mil mansion on the beach during the 2005 season? Of course they knew, or could have found out easily. But they did nothing because everyone loved Reggie and that USC team destroying people. Same deal here. The NCAA is rife with dirty money and hypocritical, selfserving rules with highly selective and utterly inconsistent enforcement. Exactly like you would expect from a multibillion dollar for-profit enterprise deeply related to organized gambling yet masquerading as a upstanding public institution.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:03 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:03 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
The only scam here is not paying college football players in the first place. They are run as for-profit enterprises, selling millions in tickets and merch. Those players have to work hard for years and for what? A chance to play in the NFL that most won't get?
A free ride to a top university. Overall, NCAA football players have a 69% graduation rate. Two of the top 25 best football teams have a rate below 50%, however (Arizona at 48%, Oklahoma at 44%).
posted by clorox at 12:03 PM on November 18, 2010
A free ride to a top university. Overall, NCAA football players have a 69% graduation rate. Two of the top 25 best football teams have a rate below 50%, however (Arizona at 48%, Oklahoma at 44%).
posted by clorox at 12:03 PM on November 18, 2010
(go Sooners!)
Hook 'em Horns!
*sobs quietly in a corner*
*holds out hope that my wife's Horned Frogs can make it to the National Championship this year... at least one team from Texas still knows how to play football*
posted by kmz at 12:04 PM on November 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
Hook 'em Horns!
*sobs quietly in a corner*
*holds out hope that my wife's Horned Frogs can make it to the National Championship this year... at least one team from Texas still knows how to play football*
posted by kmz at 12:04 PM on November 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
See! No steroids! Way to go team, we're winners this year!
posted by buzzman at 12:07 PM on November 18, 2010
posted by buzzman at 12:07 PM on November 18, 2010
Cam Newton is a phenomenal football player, and it's a joy to watch him play. I'm a Bama fan, and on Saturday I will be participating in the time-honored tradition of getting together with friends, drinking enough cheap beer to float a barge, eating pulled pork, and watching the Alabama-Auburn game. It's my state's real holiday: fuck Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, and the Fourth of July! It's the Iron Bowl! Everything that isn't Waffle House will be closed or empty. When the game is on, you could walk down the middle of the busiest street in town and not worry about getting hit. Hell, set up some pins and bowl a few frames; it's not like there will be anyone on the roads. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, will be watching The Game. I'm told there are other rivalries. Michigan v Ohio State, Texas v Oklahoma, Boise State and TCU v the BCS, etc. On Saturday, that all fades into the background as residents of Alabama collectively participate in the culmination of their 365-day obsession. Because on Sunday, we'll all wake up hung-over and ready to start jawing about NEXT year's game.
It starts early down here. The new kid in kindergarten on the first day of school will be asked, "Who you like?" And that kid better have an answer, and that answer better not be "Tennessee".
And it sticks. My mother, for example. Eighty-five years old, mentally unmoored by senile dementia. Yesterday I told her my friend Joe was coming over on Saturday to watch the Iron Bowl, and mom had one of those synaptic flashes common in dementia sufferers and she said, "Joe Willie was such a handsome man but he had trouble throwing the ball deep." "Joe Willie" being, of course, Joe Namath, best known as the Super Bowl winning quarterback for the New York Jets but better known here for playing for Bear Bryant's Crimson Tide. Notice that she didn't just remember his name: she knew he was handsome, and that his deep passes tended to flutter. Mom doesn't know where she is half the time, but she retained the knowledge of Namath's weakness. Mom was an Auburn fan.
So it's funny and smack-in-the-head obvious to me that college football may be the foot in the door that starts the collapse of the shameful corruption machine that runs my state. Because Milton MacGregor (owner of greyhound racing tracks and all-around sleazebucket) will sing like a canary (Bill Canary? Just kidding. Alabama politics joke.) when they put the screws to him.
Because, yeah, football is IMPORTANT here. It shouldn't be, but it is. So a corruption probe involving SEC football will grab attention in a way unlike boring old billion-dollar sewers driving Jefferson County into bankruptcy.
So maybe that's a good thing.
As for Cam Newton, he'll be fine. Heisman or not. He'll make millions in the NFL. His daddy will get his church built. All this will wash away in a few seasons. Too bad he'll probably end up in Buffalo, but whatever. He'll be fine.
And in Alabama we'll all turn our attention to the incoming freshman class, we'll parse the cryptic nonsense of Nick Saban with the concentration of a haruspex over steaming bird entrails, and we'll remember that time, long ago, when Our Team Won, and for a moment we'll feel like a winner, too.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:09 PM on November 18, 2010 [29 favorites]
It starts early down here. The new kid in kindergarten on the first day of school will be asked, "Who you like?" And that kid better have an answer, and that answer better not be "Tennessee".
And it sticks. My mother, for example. Eighty-five years old, mentally unmoored by senile dementia. Yesterday I told her my friend Joe was coming over on Saturday to watch the Iron Bowl, and mom had one of those synaptic flashes common in dementia sufferers and she said, "Joe Willie was such a handsome man but he had trouble throwing the ball deep." "Joe Willie" being, of course, Joe Namath, best known as the Super Bowl winning quarterback for the New York Jets but better known here for playing for Bear Bryant's Crimson Tide. Notice that she didn't just remember his name: she knew he was handsome, and that his deep passes tended to flutter. Mom doesn't know where she is half the time, but she retained the knowledge of Namath's weakness. Mom was an Auburn fan.
So it's funny and smack-in-the-head obvious to me that college football may be the foot in the door that starts the collapse of the shameful corruption machine that runs my state. Because Milton MacGregor (owner of greyhound racing tracks and all-around sleazebucket) will sing like a canary (Bill Canary? Just kidding. Alabama politics joke.) when they put the screws to him.
Because, yeah, football is IMPORTANT here. It shouldn't be, but it is. So a corruption probe involving SEC football will grab attention in a way unlike boring old billion-dollar sewers driving Jefferson County into bankruptcy.
So maybe that's a good thing.
As for Cam Newton, he'll be fine. Heisman or not. He'll make millions in the NFL. His daddy will get his church built. All this will wash away in a few seasons. Too bad he'll probably end up in Buffalo, but whatever. He'll be fine.
And in Alabama we'll all turn our attention to the incoming freshman class, we'll parse the cryptic nonsense of Nick Saban with the concentration of a haruspex over steaming bird entrails, and we'll remember that time, long ago, when Our Team Won, and for a moment we'll feel like a winner, too.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:09 PM on November 18, 2010 [29 favorites]
If you've got 20 minutes, imagine you're me, an eleven year old young football fan, and watch the two videos linked here (if you've got 10, watch part 2 only. If you've got a minute and a half, and don't mind missing the amazing context that this is in, just watch the last play).
I'm in a remarkably similar position (except I was in Omaha watching the game you linked to, you Sooner bastard), and I have the same trouble getting college football all the way out of my system. Every time I think I'm done with it, sick of the corruption and misspent money, something happens to pull me back in. The most recent something being Nebraska joining the Big 10 and offering the delightful spectacle of annihilating the Gophers every year.
posted by COBRA! at 12:10 PM on November 18, 2010
I'm in a remarkably similar position (except I was in Omaha watching the game you linked to, you Sooner bastard), and I have the same trouble getting college football all the way out of my system. Every time I think I'm done with it, sick of the corruption and misspent money, something happens to pull me back in. The most recent something being Nebraska joining the Big 10 and offering the delightful spectacle of annihilating the Gophers every year.
posted by COBRA! at 12:10 PM on November 18, 2010
Wow, I'd already read all these links before the post appeared.
1). Little discussed fact, one of Cecil Newton's sons already plays in the NFL, which has a pretty large base salary.
2). The last link's batshit conspiracy requires that 19 and 20 year old kids (and all of their friends and family) of possibly questionable intelligence kept this quiet for years. And we all know that all great conspiracies that turn out to be true start out as a forum thread.
3). MSU recruits the kid. Kid's dad allegedly asks for money. MSU boosters are shocked, shocked but still try to recruit the kid up until signing day. They only turn over the info in January after the kid picks Auburn. And they have texts outlining all of this, only, you know, they dropped the phone in the toilet or something.
4). The NCAA has been investigating this since January, even gave AU the go ahead but now all of the sudden there is much much more to this? It's just no one's talking b/c they don't want to tip them off! Umm, ok.
5). The Feds? Remember all of the steroid investigations in baseball? They didn't nail anyone. They have yet to convict Bonds and Clemens is going to trial for perjury, not any actual offense.
Look, I think all of these kids probably get paid in some form of free meals and pocket money but everyone has gone out on a mighty big ledge with no supportable facts. What did that article about him cheating at Florida have to do with anything? Other than being a federal offense for leaking classified school documents (if it's even true).
posted by dig_duggler at 12:25 PM on November 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
1). Little discussed fact, one of Cecil Newton's sons already plays in the NFL, which has a pretty large base salary.
2). The last link's batshit conspiracy requires that 19 and 20 year old kids (and all of their friends and family) of possibly questionable intelligence kept this quiet for years. And we all know that all great conspiracies that turn out to be true start out as a forum thread.
3). MSU recruits the kid. Kid's dad allegedly asks for money. MSU boosters are shocked, shocked but still try to recruit the kid up until signing day. They only turn over the info in January after the kid picks Auburn. And they have texts outlining all of this, only, you know, they dropped the phone in the toilet or something.
4). The NCAA has been investigating this since January, even gave AU the go ahead but now all of the sudden there is much much more to this? It's just no one's talking b/c they don't want to tip them off! Umm, ok.
5). The Feds? Remember all of the steroid investigations in baseball? They didn't nail anyone. They have yet to convict Bonds and Clemens is going to trial for perjury, not any actual offense.
Look, I think all of these kids probably get paid in some form of free meals and pocket money but everyone has gone out on a mighty big ledge with no supportable facts. What did that article about him cheating at Florida have to do with anything? Other than being a federal offense for leaking classified school documents (if it's even true).
posted by dig_duggler at 12:25 PM on November 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
A free ride to a top university. Overall, NCAA football players have a 69% graduation rate.
It's not a free ride if you have to work your ass off for it. And if they don't graduate it wouldn't have any value anyway. If you really wanted a college education, you could play in the NFL for a few years and make way more then enough to pay for your education. Besides, why would you need a college education while you play in the NFL anyway? Then again, with all the head injuries, college might actually be more difficult after an NFL carrier.
posted by delmoi at 12:27 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's not a free ride if you have to work your ass off for it. And if they don't graduate it wouldn't have any value anyway. If you really wanted a college education, you could play in the NFL for a few years and make way more then enough to pay for your education. Besides, why would you need a college education while you play in the NFL anyway? Then again, with all the head injuries, college might actually be more difficult after an NFL carrier.
posted by delmoi at 12:27 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
it hardly rates in the top 25 SEC scandals of the last 50 years.
And it wouldn't even break into the top 50 of Big 8/SWC/Big XII scandals. Hell, this pales compared to the Hart Lee Dykes case, where 4 -- FOUR -- teams in 3 conferences were put on probation because of the "bidding war" over getting him signed.
And until there's proof money actually changed hands between Auburn and Newton, this is still nothing compared to the Albert Means case. Alabama paid $200K -- more than what Newton's father supposedly wanted -- to get him to sign. And Bama was almost handed the Death Penalty (a complete shutdown of the football program for a year) for that fiasco.
I saw an interview with a former NCAA compliance officer where he was asked, point blank, if Newton should be playing. He said yes, because there's no actual evidence that requires his immediate benching, and it's really hard to see what the penalty should be, anyway. He also said that the NCAA will let Auburn know if he needs to be benched, and at that time they will do what's necessary.
Auburn appears to be acting in good faith. Perhaps it's all a giant ruse, but they also know that their next violation will trigger Death Penalty consideration as well. So much of this seems like rumor and innuendo it's really hard to say what's true and what isn't. But until there's hard evidence, Auburn has to keep playing Cam Newton. They really don't have a choice. Bench him, and you look guilty, and you're gonna lose against any of your next three opponents.
And it's all crazy, given that I think Cam Newton is the greatest running and passing QB I've ever seen. And I'm someone who grew up in the Big 8 and remember Turner Gill and Jamaille Holloway, who went to Colorado during the days of Darian Hagan and Kordell Stewart, and saw firsthand what Tommie Frazier could do to a defense. I saw Donovan McNabb throw up on the Syracuse field and then proceed to win the game. I saw Seneca Wallace scramble back 30 yards and still run in a TD. Tebow. Vick. Cam Newton is better than all of them. He's like someone glued John Elway's upper body onto Barry Sanders' legs and then hit him with a grow ray.
The kid is a freak of nature. He's a thief, he's a cheater, and he comes with a giant cloud of allegations, but he was meant for the football field. Now if they can only figure out how to get his ten cent head to run his $100M body.
posted by dw at 12:29 PM on November 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
And it wouldn't even break into the top 50 of Big 8/SWC/Big XII scandals. Hell, this pales compared to the Hart Lee Dykes case, where 4 -- FOUR -- teams in 3 conferences were put on probation because of the "bidding war" over getting him signed.
And until there's proof money actually changed hands between Auburn and Newton, this is still nothing compared to the Albert Means case. Alabama paid $200K -- more than what Newton's father supposedly wanted -- to get him to sign. And Bama was almost handed the Death Penalty (a complete shutdown of the football program for a year) for that fiasco.
I saw an interview with a former NCAA compliance officer where he was asked, point blank, if Newton should be playing. He said yes, because there's no actual evidence that requires his immediate benching, and it's really hard to see what the penalty should be, anyway. He also said that the NCAA will let Auburn know if he needs to be benched, and at that time they will do what's necessary.
Auburn appears to be acting in good faith. Perhaps it's all a giant ruse, but they also know that their next violation will trigger Death Penalty consideration as well. So much of this seems like rumor and innuendo it's really hard to say what's true and what isn't. But until there's hard evidence, Auburn has to keep playing Cam Newton. They really don't have a choice. Bench him, and you look guilty, and you're gonna lose against any of your next three opponents.
And it's all crazy, given that I think Cam Newton is the greatest running and passing QB I've ever seen. And I'm someone who grew up in the Big 8 and remember Turner Gill and Jamaille Holloway, who went to Colorado during the days of Darian Hagan and Kordell Stewart, and saw firsthand what Tommie Frazier could do to a defense. I saw Donovan McNabb throw up on the Syracuse field and then proceed to win the game. I saw Seneca Wallace scramble back 30 yards and still run in a TD. Tebow. Vick. Cam Newton is better than all of them. He's like someone glued John Elway's upper body onto Barry Sanders' legs and then hit him with a grow ray.
The kid is a freak of nature. He's a thief, he's a cheater, and he comes with a giant cloud of allegations, but he was meant for the football field. Now if they can only figure out how to get his ten cent head to run his $100M body.
posted by dw at 12:29 PM on November 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
The most recent something being Nebraska joining the Big 10 and offering the delightful spectacle of annihilating the Gophers every year.
Longhorn fans will always have fond memories of Nebraska's tenure in the Big 12.
(Sorry, that's mean, but the game this year was Texas's only shining moment.)
posted by kmz at 12:29 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Longhorn fans will always have fond memories of Nebraska's tenure in the Big 12.
(Sorry, that's mean, but the game this year was Texas's only shining moment.)
posted by kmz at 12:29 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
JPD, you're talking an awful lot like you're a closet Auburn fan - but seriously, chill out. It's an interesting post, and I enjoyed reading it. ESPECIALLY the link to the LSU forum. It's a great link, although biased, to get a feel for the magnitude of the situation. Thanks for the post!
posted by drewski at 12:38 PM on November 18, 2010
posted by drewski at 12:38 PM on November 18, 2010
And they have texts outlining all of this, only, you know, they dropped the phone in the toilet or something.
this btw is not hyperbole. That's how crazy people get about this stuff. Link http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5818428
posted by JPD at 12:40 PM on November 18, 2010
this btw is not hyperbole. That's how crazy people get about this stuff. Link http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5818428
posted by JPD at 12:40 PM on November 18, 2010
And one more thing: You have to understand that the SEC is to Southern men what soap operas are to Southern women. They both need their stories, and you do NOT come between them and their stories.
One holiday season I sat in my in-laws' sunroom with my brother in law, a hard core Obama-is-a-Socialist conservative, my niece's husband, a kid who probably is on track to being a Republican politician in a few years, my nephew, my brother-in-law's son who is what passes for a liberal in exurb Alabama (that is, he doesn't like Obama but believes he was born in America), and me, well, a West Coast liburyal. And you know what we talked about for two hours? Football. All the great teams. All the Auburn teams. Bama. Southern Miss. Whether Marcus Dupree would have been better than Herschel Walker. All my Colorado memories.
It's God, Country, Football in the South. You want to survive being in the South, all you liberals? When they're looking you up and down, ask them if they think Marcus Dupree could have been better than Herschel Walker, and if so, was Bo even better than him. And you'll live.
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra? Punt Bama Punt.
posted by dw at 12:40 PM on November 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
One holiday season I sat in my in-laws' sunroom with my brother in law, a hard core Obama-is-a-Socialist conservative, my niece's husband, a kid who probably is on track to being a Republican politician in a few years, my nephew, my brother-in-law's son who is what passes for a liberal in exurb Alabama (that is, he doesn't like Obama but believes he was born in America), and me, well, a West Coast liburyal. And you know what we talked about for two hours? Football. All the great teams. All the Auburn teams. Bama. Southern Miss. Whether Marcus Dupree would have been better than Herschel Walker. All my Colorado memories.
It's God, Country, Football in the South. You want to survive being in the South, all you liberals? When they're looking you up and down, ask them if they think Marcus Dupree could have been better than Herschel Walker, and if so, was Bo even better than him. And you'll live.
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra? Punt Bama Punt.
posted by dw at 12:40 PM on November 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
I think Cam Newton is the greatest running and passing QB I've ever seen.
You ever see Michael Vick play college ball?
Also, $20 says Andrew Luck gets drafted first (if he enters the draft).
posted by mrgrimm at 12:45 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
You ever see Michael Vick play college ball?
Also, $20 says Andrew Luck gets drafted first (if he enters the draft).
posted by mrgrimm at 12:45 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Punt Bama Punt
Seventeen to sixteen ain't no more!
Thirty-five to ZERO is the score!
posted by BitterOldPunk at 1:01 PM on November 18, 2010
Seventeen to sixteen ain't no more!
Thirty-five to ZERO is the score!
posted by BitterOldPunk at 1:01 PM on November 18, 2010
Black people in the South by and large voted overwhelmingly for Obama, and they're football crazy too, just not necessarily for SEC teams (although that's not necessarily as true today as it was even ten to fifteen years ago; Miss. State has a 20-21 percent African-American student population and about a quarter of the student body is of minority ethnicity; by comparison, Auburn's entire minority population is around 12-13 percent, and it's about 15 percent with Bama).
So, in effect, you're talking about a mostly white, SEC-loving Deep South, and even people who live in the Deep South aren't only going to run into only SEC fans all the time, much less only white ones--especially if you live in, say, the Mississippi Delta or live in one of the South's many predominantly black urban areas.
I can get a kick out of reading about SEC madness, but c'mon.
posted by raysmj at 1:05 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
So, in effect, you're talking about a mostly white, SEC-loving Deep South, and even people who live in the Deep South aren't only going to run into only SEC fans all the time, much less only white ones--especially if you live in, say, the Mississippi Delta or live in one of the South's many predominantly black urban areas.
I can get a kick out of reading about SEC madness, but c'mon.
posted by raysmj at 1:05 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Since there's some desire here, how bout them not paying college players? The NFL deprives kids of potential millions in their lives in the years they could have played (Trent Richardson could play in the NFL right now) or in the case they get hurt their junior year in college and can't play. How is this even legal? What other field has arbitrary age limits? It would be one thing if they needed a degree in 'football' or something, but this post junior crap is a way to placate the NCAA and the NFL players union.
posted by dig_duggler at 1:12 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by dig_duggler at 1:12 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
You ever see Michael Vick play college ball?
Yes.
Cam Newton is better. Vick faced mostly ACC defenses. Newton's playing against SEC defenses. Vick JUST THIS SEASON figured out how to do check-down reads in the pocket. Newton does it automatically. Vick is maybe 5'11 and 200 pounds. Newton is 6'4 and 230. Vick's got more raw speed, sure, but Newton can make people miss, too. Both of them sonetimes struggle throwing deep, but Newton's in a fast-moving offense that emphasizes quick snaps and reading defenses: good preparation for the NFL.
One thing Vick had going for him is that he started a LOT more college games than Newton.
But what do I know? I thought Vince Young was gonna be great, too.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 1:16 PM on November 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
Yes.
Cam Newton is better. Vick faced mostly ACC defenses. Newton's playing against SEC defenses. Vick JUST THIS SEASON figured out how to do check-down reads in the pocket. Newton does it automatically. Vick is maybe 5'11 and 200 pounds. Newton is 6'4 and 230. Vick's got more raw speed, sure, but Newton can make people miss, too. Both of them sonetimes struggle throwing deep, but Newton's in a fast-moving offense that emphasizes quick snaps and reading defenses: good preparation for the NFL.
One thing Vick had going for him is that he started a LOT more college games than Newton.
But what do I know? I thought Vince Young was gonna be great, too.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 1:16 PM on November 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
"I DIDNT CHECK ANY OF THIS I WILL NOW LIST CAST OF CHARACTERS AS LONG AS THE OLD TESTAMENT SORRY COULDNT BE BOTHERED WITH FACTS, STORYLINES."
Citizen journalism at its finest. Let's revel in the demise of dead tree media. Wake me up when a real journalist writes something intelligible about this mess.
posted by NekulturnY at 1:23 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Citizen journalism at its finest. Let's revel in the demise of dead tree media. Wake me up when a real journalist writes something intelligible about this mess.
posted by NekulturnY at 1:23 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
I thought Vince Young was gonna be great, too.
Hey, Vince had a great rookie season and did pretty well once he got the starting job again last season. It's been a bit up and down this year, but it's not like all great quarterbacks light up the league immediately and consistently from their rookie year on.
(It probably says something about my feeling on pro vs college ball that by dent of who their quarterbacks are, I root more for the Titans and Browns now than I do for the Cowboys or Texans.)
posted by kmz at 1:28 PM on November 18, 2010
Hey, Vince had a great rookie season and did pretty well once he got the starting job again last season. It's been a bit up and down this year, but it's not like all great quarterbacks light up the league immediately and consistently from their rookie year on.
(It probably says something about my feeling on pro vs college ball that by dent of who their quarterbacks are, I root more for the Titans and Browns now than I do for the Cowboys or Texans.)
posted by kmz at 1:28 PM on November 18, 2010
Wake me up when a real journalist writes something intelligible about this mess.
It'll be a while -- and that's with real journalists writing things about it right now.
posted by dw at 1:39 PM on November 18, 2010
It'll be a while -- and that's with real journalists writing things about it right now.
posted by dw at 1:39 PM on November 18, 2010
We are also seeing organized faking of injuries in order to try to slow down the offense of the opposition.
posted by Danf at 1:46 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Danf at 1:46 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is this where we sign up to hope Cam Newton sticks around lomg enough to cream Oregon?
posted by madajb at 1:46 PM on November 18, 2010
posted by madajb at 1:46 PM on November 18, 2010
Interesting post! And I agree with dw. I am so relieved that a) there is this scandal brewing in the SEC and b) my conservative SC family are gamecock fans because next week over Thanksgiving Day dinner, instead of talking about commie pinkos like me ruining the country, we will talk about SEC Football.
also just emailed this link to my friend catlet who is a Ducks fan
posted by pointystick at 1:54 PM on November 18, 2010
also just emailed this link to my friend catlet who is a Ducks fan
posted by pointystick at 1:54 PM on November 18, 2010
Wiretaps made as part of the recent federal investigation into
vote-buying in the Alabama Legislature contain no conversations that
connect Victoryland owner Milton McGregor to quarterback Cam Newton's
recruitment to Auburn, according to multiple sources familiar with the
statehouse probe.
posted by dig_duggler at 1:54 PM on November 18, 2010
vote-buying in the Alabama Legislature contain no conversations that
connect Victoryland owner Milton McGregor to quarterback Cam Newton's
recruitment to Auburn, according to multiple sources familiar with the
statehouse probe.
posted by dig_duggler at 1:54 PM on November 18, 2010
I'm a lifelong Pac-8/Pac-10 fan, and a third-generation Oregon alumna. I'm also a Georgia alum and currently live deep within SEC territory. The SEC is weird, y'all; I found the Big 10 strange enough when I lived in Illinois, but the SEC feels more like almost-professional football than any other conference where I've attended games. dw and BitterOldPunk describe it beautifully. As a fan of the game itself, I want a fair investigation and to see punishment meted out as appropriate, but I hope that Cam Newton himself is allowed to continue play because he's amazing to watch on the field.
That said, I'm not picking Newton to win the Heisman even if he stays eligible. I watched Bobby Moore (Ahmad Rashad) play for the Ducks when I was a kid, and the current Oregon RB, LaMichael James, looks just like him on the field.
posted by catlet at 1:56 PM on November 18, 2010
That said, I'm not picking Newton to win the Heisman even if he stays eligible. I watched Bobby Moore (Ahmad Rashad) play for the Ducks when I was a kid, and the current Oregon RB, LaMichael James, looks just like him on the field.
posted by catlet at 1:56 PM on November 18, 2010
Vick faced mostly ACC defenses.
Stickler time. Pretty certain when Vick was QB, VT was in the Big East.
posted by cloeburner at 2:00 PM on November 18, 2010
Stickler time. Pretty certain when Vick was QB, VT was in the Big East.
posted by cloeburner at 2:00 PM on November 18, 2010
Even if you're not a college football fan, you may have recently heard of Cam Newton. That's because, apart from being the most exciting and dynamic college football (...)
I have no idea who this kid is or why he's supposed to be special. it might have been interesting to get an explanation why, perhaps through a few youtube links, but you didn't do that. so yes, I'm not following college football and even though you thought of me you didn't do anything about it. I find that sad.
posted by krautland at 2:02 PM on November 18, 2010
I have no idea who this kid is or why he's supposed to be special. it might have been interesting to get an explanation why, perhaps through a few youtube links, but you didn't do that. so yes, I'm not following college football and even though you thought of me you didn't do anything about it. I find that sad.
posted by krautland at 2:02 PM on November 18, 2010
Vick faced mostly ACC defenses.
Stickler time. Pretty certain when Vick was QB, VT was in the Big East.
That's even worse.
posted by dig_duggler at 2:07 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Stickler time. Pretty certain when Vick was QB, VT was in the Big East.
That's even worse.
posted by dig_duggler at 2:07 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I stand corrected. Virginia Tech was in the Big East while Vick was QB. But ACC or Big East: not SEC-calibre defenses.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 2:22 PM on November 18, 2010
posted by BitterOldPunk at 2:22 PM on November 18, 2010
Here's Newton's "signature" run against LSU. Got some help on the blocking, but he can cut.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned much is that the Auburn offensive coordinator is a mad genius named Gus Malzahn, who probably deserves his own post. Everything Michael Lewis raved about Mike Leach a few years ago, Malzahn is twice that, only without locking a football player in a closet.
posted by dw at 2:28 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
One thing that hasn't been mentioned much is that the Auburn offensive coordinator is a mad genius named Gus Malzahn, who probably deserves his own post. Everything Michael Lewis raved about Mike Leach a few years ago, Malzahn is twice that, only without locking a football player in a closet.
posted by dw at 2:28 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Stickler time. Pretty certain when Vick was QB, VT was in the Big East.
That's even worse.
Ha, the Big East is such a joke. There's speculation TCU will be invited to join the Big East, but I think there's a good question about whether it's worth it, even with the AQ.
posted by kmz at 3:09 PM on November 18, 2010
That's even worse.
Ha, the Big East is such a joke. There's speculation TCU will be invited to join the Big East, but I think there's a good question about whether it's worth it, even with the AQ.
posted by kmz at 3:09 PM on November 18, 2010
Is this where we sign up to hope Cam Newton sticks around lomg enough to cream Oregon?
More importantly, is this where we ask if Oregon makes the national championship game, is the Rose Bowl obligated to take a higher ranking team from a non-qualifying conference over the next best Pac-10 team, or instead of the lower-ranking team from either the Pac-10 or Big-10?
If Oregon makes the championship game, does the Rose Bowl automatically take TCU or BSU instead of a Pac-10 team, or does TCU or BSU play the higher ranked team from either the Pac-10 or Big 10? (Assuming Oregon meets Auburn. If Auburn loses, Oregon will play TCU or BSU in the championship and that non-qualifying conference rule for the Rose Bowl goes out the window.)
For fuck's sake, college football. Cut the cords and get a fucking tournament already!
posted by mrgrimm at 3:42 PM on November 18, 2010
More importantly, is this where we ask if Oregon makes the national championship game, is the Rose Bowl obligated to take a higher ranking team from a non-qualifying conference over the next best Pac-10 team, or instead of the lower-ranking team from either the Pac-10 or Big-10?
If Oregon makes the championship game, does the Rose Bowl automatically take TCU or BSU instead of a Pac-10 team, or does TCU or BSU play the higher ranked team from either the Pac-10 or Big 10? (Assuming Oregon meets Auburn. If Auburn loses, Oregon will play TCU or BSU in the championship and that non-qualifying conference rule for the Rose Bowl goes out the window.)
For fuck's sake, college football. Cut the cords and get a fucking tournament already!
posted by mrgrimm at 3:42 PM on November 18, 2010
If Oregon makes the championship game, does the Rose Bowl automatically take TCU or BSU instead of a Pac-10 team, or does TCU or BSU play the higher ranked team from either the Pac-10 or Big 10
The Rose Bowl is obligated to take the highest ranking non-AQ team to replace its conference team, if that conference team is selected for the BCSNC game. The other conference team remains the same.
There's speculation TCU will be invited to join the Big East, but I think there's a good question about whether it's worth it, even with the AQ.
The AQ ratings will be re-evaluated in 2012, and the Big East could lose out, or there could be a seventh AQ conference added based on performances between 2008-2011. The current AQ conferences are set based on the 2004-2007 seasons.
posted by norm at 3:51 PM on November 18, 2010
The Rose Bowl is obligated to take the highest ranking non-AQ team to replace its conference team, if that conference team is selected for the BCSNC game. The other conference team remains the same.
There's speculation TCU will be invited to join the Big East, but I think there's a good question about whether it's worth it, even with the AQ.
The AQ ratings will be re-evaluated in 2012, and the Big East could lose out, or there could be a seventh AQ conference added based on performances between 2008-2011. The current AQ conferences are set based on the 2004-2007 seasons.
posted by norm at 3:51 PM on November 18, 2010
The AQ ratings will be re-evaluated in 2012, and the Big East could lose out, or there could be a seventh AQ conference added based on performances between 2008-2011. The current AQ conferences are set based on the 2004-2007 seasons.
Oh I know. I think the main question is will the Mountain West with both Boise State and TCU but lacking BYU and Utah be considered better than the Big East with TCU. (I think Fresno State and Nevada's move will be too late to count for the MWC.) And even if the Big East doesn't qualify numerically as an AQ anymore, will history and politicking keep them in?
posted by kmz at 4:25 PM on November 18, 2010
Oh I know. I think the main question is will the Mountain West with both Boise State and TCU but lacking BYU and Utah be considered better than the Big East with TCU. (I think Fresno State and Nevada's move will be too late to count for the MWC.) And even if the Big East doesn't qualify numerically as an AQ anymore, will history and politicking keep them in?
posted by kmz at 4:25 PM on November 18, 2010
The Rose Bowl is obligated to take the highest ranking non-AQ team to replace its conference team
Actually, the Rose Bowl can take whomever they want so long as they are in the BCS top 12, and they will usually choose a Big 10/Pac 10 matchup because of the poor draw non-Pac 10/Big 10 teams have been the years they've had to go outside.
So the Rose Bowl is usually Big 10 #1/#2 vs Pac 10 #1/#2. And I doubt it will be any different this year. They'd sooner have Stanford and Wisconsin than TCU and LSU.
I think the main question is will the Mountain West with both Boise State and TCU but lacking BYU and Utah be considered better than the Big East with TCU.
It's a bit of a wash. BYU has been pretty bad the last few years, and losing Utah really hurts the MWC, but all told they've been playing like the #5 conference even without Utah's two wins.
The obvious solution for the BCS would be to add the MWC, keep the Big East, and add the Cotton Bowl to the BCS. They could then add space for a third at-large as well as the MWC. But with the ESPN contract running to 2015, they won't be able to make any changes before then, not without cutting into the four main bowls' TV money.
posted by dw at 4:47 PM on November 18, 2010
Actually, the Rose Bowl can take whomever they want so long as they are in the BCS top 12, and they will usually choose a Big 10/Pac 10 matchup because of the poor draw non-Pac 10/Big 10 teams have been the years they've had to go outside.
So the Rose Bowl is usually Big 10 #1/#2 vs Pac 10 #1/#2. And I doubt it will be any different this year. They'd sooner have Stanford and Wisconsin than TCU and LSU.
I think the main question is will the Mountain West with both Boise State and TCU but lacking BYU and Utah be considered better than the Big East with TCU.
It's a bit of a wash. BYU has been pretty bad the last few years, and losing Utah really hurts the MWC, but all told they've been playing like the #5 conference even without Utah's two wins.
The obvious solution for the BCS would be to add the MWC, keep the Big East, and add the Cotton Bowl to the BCS. They could then add space for a third at-large as well as the MWC. But with the ESPN contract running to 2015, they won't be able to make any changes before then, not without cutting into the four main bowls' TV money.
posted by dw at 4:47 PM on November 18, 2010
Nope, in general the Rose Bowl always gets the Pac 10 champ and Big 10 champ. Under their current BCS contract which runs until 2013, if one of those champs is in the national championship game, the first time that happens when there's also a qualifying non-BCS team, they are required to take that qualifying non-BCS team.
posted by kmz at 5:03 PM on November 18, 2010
posted by kmz at 5:03 PM on November 18, 2010
Yeah, you're right. They seem to toss in a new, odd rule every year.
posted by dw at 6:57 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by dw at 6:57 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
At least I sleep soundly with Michigan State, right? I mean, our players only break the rules (and the law) after they join the team. Let's see, this season, the starting cornerback is out with a DUI trial, and last season pretty much the entire WR corps got into a brawl with a fraternity and got kicked off the team. And, of course, the students are ready to set East Lansing on fire at the drop of a hat.
It's all okay, though. They beat Michigan and Notre Dame. To me, they've already won the title.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:35 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's all okay, though. They beat Michigan and Notre Dame. To me, they've already won the title.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:35 PM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
BitterOldPunk: "I'm a Bama fan, and on Saturday I will be participating in the time-honored tradition of getting together with friends, drinking enough cheap beer to float a barge, eating pulled pork, and watching the Alabama-Auburn game. "
You, sir, are not a real Bama fan.
Because, you see, this year's Iron Bowl, just like last year's, will be on the Friday after Thanksgiving. Not on Saturday. /pedant Auburn fan
Seriously, don't miss it. it's going to be a great game.
I'll be sitting over hear quietly pretending that Cam Newton has never heard of MSU, if you need me...
posted by This Guy at 7:39 AM on November 19, 2010
You, sir, are not a real Bama fan.
Because, you see, this year's Iron Bowl, just like last year's, will be on the Friday after Thanksgiving. Not on Saturday. /pedant Auburn fan
Seriously, don't miss it. it's going to be a great game.
I'll be sitting over hear quietly pretending that Cam Newton has never heard of MSU, if you need me...
posted by This Guy at 7:39 AM on November 19, 2010
Otherwise, I fully endorse BiterOldPunk's description of the South's obsession with the SEC.
posted by This Guy at 7:41 AM on November 19, 2010
posted by This Guy at 7:41 AM on November 19, 2010
gracias, dw. that's exactly what i was looking for.
those rules are even more ridiculous than i expected. I'm gonna cut and paste the relevant part for my question, but i'm still not even sure.
Team selection procedures
...
3. If a bowl loses a host team to the NCG, then such bowl shall select a replacement team from among the automatic-qualifying teams and the at-large teams before any other selections are made. If two bowls lose host teams to the NCG, each bowl will get a replacement pick before any other selections are made. In such case, the bowl losing the No. 1 team gets the first replacement pick, and the bowl losing the No. 2 team gets the second replacement pick. If the Rose Bowl loses both the Big Ten and Pac-10 champions to the NCG, it will receive two replacement picks.
For the games of January 2011 through 2014, the first year the Rose Bowl loses a team to the NCG and a team from the non-AQ group is an automatic qualifier, that non-AQ team will play in the Rose Bowl.
A bowl choosing a replacement team may not select any of the following:
A. A team in the NCG;
B. The host team for another BCS Bowl;
C. When two bowls lose host teams, then the bowl losing the number one team may not select a replacement team from the same conference as the number two team, unless the bowl losing the number two team consents.
So, if I understand correctly, if Oregon makes the "NCG," then the Rose Bowl has to take an (automatically qualifying) non-AQ team, leaving them free to choose whomever they want as the opponent (Big 10 or Pac-10).
I'm not so sure a have a definitive answer to my original question. If I had to bet my life on it, I would agree with norm:
The Rose Bowl is obligated to take the highest ranking non-AQ team to replace its conference team, if that conference team is selected for the BCSNC game. The other conference team remains the same.
The Stanford Daily agrees.
... but does it really say that in the rules? Can I be slow and ask someone to point it out for me?
If the season ends as is, and Oregon (1) plays Auburn (2) in the NCG, and the rest of the BCS rankings go TCU (3), BSU (4), LSU (5), Stanford (6), Wisconsin (7), Nebraska (8), Ohio State (9), Oklahoma (10)...
Is the Rose Bowl automatically TCU vs. Wisconsin? Is Stanford automatically out of the BCS?
Still, I'm rooting for them for the rest of the year; the SEC needs to continue its recent run of pure dominance over the rest of college football.
1. Pac-10
2. SEC
posted by mrgrimm at 9:07 AM on November 19, 2010
those rules are even more ridiculous than i expected. I'm gonna cut and paste the relevant part for my question, but i'm still not even sure.
Team selection procedures
...
3. If a bowl loses a host team to the NCG, then such bowl shall select a replacement team from among the automatic-qualifying teams and the at-large teams before any other selections are made. If two bowls lose host teams to the NCG, each bowl will get a replacement pick before any other selections are made. In such case, the bowl losing the No. 1 team gets the first replacement pick, and the bowl losing the No. 2 team gets the second replacement pick. If the Rose Bowl loses both the Big Ten and Pac-10 champions to the NCG, it will receive two replacement picks.
For the games of January 2011 through 2014, the first year the Rose Bowl loses a team to the NCG and a team from the non-AQ group is an automatic qualifier, that non-AQ team will play in the Rose Bowl.
A bowl choosing a replacement team may not select any of the following:
A. A team in the NCG;
B. The host team for another BCS Bowl;
C. When two bowls lose host teams, then the bowl losing the number one team may not select a replacement team from the same conference as the number two team, unless the bowl losing the number two team consents.
So, if I understand correctly, if Oregon makes the "NCG," then the Rose Bowl has to take an (automatically qualifying) non-AQ team, leaving them free to choose whomever they want as the opponent (Big 10 or Pac-10).
I'm not so sure a have a definitive answer to my original question. If I had to bet my life on it, I would agree with norm:
The Rose Bowl is obligated to take the highest ranking non-AQ team to replace its conference team, if that conference team is selected for the BCSNC game. The other conference team remains the same.
The Stanford Daily agrees.
... but does it really say that in the rules? Can I be slow and ask someone to point it out for me?
If the season ends as is, and Oregon (1) plays Auburn (2) in the NCG, and the rest of the BCS rankings go TCU (3), BSU (4), LSU (5), Stanford (6), Wisconsin (7), Nebraska (8), Ohio State (9), Oklahoma (10)...
Is the Rose Bowl automatically TCU vs. Wisconsin? Is Stanford automatically out of the BCS?
Still, I'm rooting for them for the rest of the year; the SEC needs to continue its recent run of pure dominance over the rest of college football.
1. Pac-10
2. SEC
posted by mrgrimm at 9:07 AM on November 19, 2010
Here's the part you're missing, I think:
posted by norm at 9:21 AM on November 19, 2010
2. Unless they qualify to play in the NCG, the champions of selected conferences are contractually committed to host selected games:The Rose Bowl is unique in that it has two host conferences, which means that even if they lose a host team, they still have another host team that's contractually locked into the game. Does that help?
Atlantic Coast Conference—Orange Bowl
Big Ten Conference—Rose Bowl
Big 12 Conference—Fiesta Bowl
Pac-10 Conference—Rose Bowl
Southeastern Conference—Sugar Bowl
posted by norm at 9:21 AM on November 19, 2010
The thing I'm wondering is what happens if Bama beats Auburn next weekend, which will more than likely move Boise and TCU in the 2 and 3 slots.
So the NCG is Oregon-TCU. Does the Rose Bowl have to take Boise? Or because the NCG takes the top non-AQ team, the Rose Bowl can go ahead and select as normal?
I think the Rose Bowl is scared to death of TCU being the top non-AQ. The whole state of Idaho will show up in Pasadena and turn the stadium orange, but TCU is tiny compared to BSU.
Of course, that's going to be as bad as the Fiesta Bowl having Oklahoma/Oklahoma State/Nebraska playing whatever Big East team ends up winning that godforesaken conference, but at least they have the NCG to fall back on.
posted by dw at 11:39 AM on November 19, 2010
So the NCG is Oregon-TCU. Does the Rose Bowl have to take Boise? Or because the NCG takes the top non-AQ team, the Rose Bowl can go ahead and select as normal?
I think the Rose Bowl is scared to death of TCU being the top non-AQ. The whole state of Idaho will show up in Pasadena and turn the stadium orange, but TCU is tiny compared to BSU.
Of course, that's going to be as bad as the Fiesta Bowl having Oklahoma/Oklahoma State/Nebraska playing whatever Big East team ends up winning that godforesaken conference, but at least they have the NCG to fall back on.
posted by dw at 11:39 AM on November 19, 2010
thanks for the clarification, norm. since everyone I've read agrees with your interpretation, i'm sure it's correct, but it takes a bit of parsing the rules to figure it out completely.
It does make sense that the Big-10 winner (if not in the championship game) would automatically play in the Rose Bowl.
The thing I'm wondering is what happens if Bama beats Auburn next weekend, which will more than likely move Boise and TCU in the 2 and 3 slots.
So the NCG is Oregon-TCU. Does the Rose Bowl have to take Boise? Or because the NCG takes the top non-AQ team, the Rose Bowl can go ahead and select as normal?
The latter.
If a team from a non-qualifying conference makes the championship game against Oregon, the non-qualifying conference requirement for the Rose Bowl is thrown out. They can take whomever they want, and I doubt it would be BSU, but I'm not sure. As you say, they do have a lot of fans.
Also, if the NCG is Oregon-TCU, I think the Rose Bowl has latitude to take anyone (well, anyone within the convoluted restrictions of the BCS) it wants to play Wisconsin (or the Big-10 champ). It doesn't have to be the 2nd place Pac-10 team.
Lastly, any rule that requires the NCAA to treat Notre Dame differently than any other team from a non-qualifying conference is totally fucked up.
SHENANIGANS!
posted by mrgrimm at 12:33 PM on November 19, 2010
It does make sense that the Big-10 winner (if not in the championship game) would automatically play in the Rose Bowl.
The thing I'm wondering is what happens if Bama beats Auburn next weekend, which will more than likely move Boise and TCU in the 2 and 3 slots.
So the NCG is Oregon-TCU. Does the Rose Bowl have to take Boise? Or because the NCG takes the top non-AQ team, the Rose Bowl can go ahead and select as normal?
The latter.
If a team from a non-qualifying conference makes the championship game against Oregon, the non-qualifying conference requirement for the Rose Bowl is thrown out. They can take whomever they want, and I doubt it would be BSU, but I'm not sure. As you say, they do have a lot of fans.
Also, if the NCG is Oregon-TCU, I think the Rose Bowl has latitude to take anyone (well, anyone within the convoluted restrictions of the BCS) it wants to play Wisconsin (or the Big-10 champ). It doesn't have to be the 2nd place Pac-10 team.
Lastly, any rule that requires the NCAA to treat Notre Dame differently than any other team from a non-qualifying conference is totally fucked up.
SHENANIGANS!
posted by mrgrimm at 12:33 PM on November 19, 2010
The rules are messed up because they're making them up as they go along.
The Top 4 rule, for example, stems from the year Kansas State was left out of the BCS despite finishing 3rd. After the 2001 debacle where Nebraska went to the BCS ahead of a Colorado team that thrashed them and a one loss Oregon team, they dropped the rules on deducting for losses and strength of schedule. As people bitched about the computers taking precedence over the polls, they cut the computer's weight in the system to 1/3 (which I find really amusing given the reason the computers were put in was because people were more irrational in their choices than computers).
And as the threats of lawsuits and Congressional action built against the BCS for leaving out non-AQ schools, they started imposing these new rules, which just get stranger and stranger year by year.
I personally think they should just ditch the BCS and institute a 16 team playoff with 11 conference champions and 5 at-larges. And they should have a selection committee, not a formula, decide the at-larges. And in my personal twist, I'd make all 8 opening games at conference champion home stadiums, and the at-larges can't play at home the opening round. I'd love to see an SEC team have to play up north outdoors in December.
posted by dw at 12:48 PM on November 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
The Top 4 rule, for example, stems from the year Kansas State was left out of the BCS despite finishing 3rd. After the 2001 debacle where Nebraska went to the BCS ahead of a Colorado team that thrashed them and a one loss Oregon team, they dropped the rules on deducting for losses and strength of schedule. As people bitched about the computers taking precedence over the polls, they cut the computer's weight in the system to 1/3 (which I find really amusing given the reason the computers were put in was because people were more irrational in their choices than computers).
And as the threats of lawsuits and Congressional action built against the BCS for leaving out non-AQ schools, they started imposing these new rules, which just get stranger and stranger year by year.
I personally think they should just ditch the BCS and institute a 16 team playoff with 11 conference champions and 5 at-larges. And they should have a selection committee, not a formula, decide the at-larges. And in my personal twist, I'd make all 8 opening games at conference champion home stadiums, and the at-larges can't play at home the opening round. I'd love to see an SEC team have to play up north outdoors in December.
posted by dw at 12:48 PM on November 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'd also like to see a true playoff system for a national championship, but keep bowls as a parallel thing with the same conference ties that some bowls have historically had. Bowls would be where conference runners-up would play (unless the runner-up was an at-large); they're a good source of revenue for both universities and television.
posted by catlet at 2:33 PM on November 19, 2010
posted by catlet at 2:33 PM on November 19, 2010
I'd also like to see a true playoff system for a national championship, but keep bowls as a parallel thing with the same conference ties that some bowls have historically had.
I think the problem that is that a true playoff system (4 or 8 or 16 or whatever) would make the bowls completely worthless. If there were an actual "national championship," any bowls not involved aren't going to make much money.
I think the solution might be a 16-team playoff with massive revenue sharing, and the 15 games spread around the major conferences, i.e. use the bowl games as first round, quarterfinal, semifinal, and final matchups.
The problem is that there are 35 bowls right now. I'm not convinced those bowls #16-35 will be as popular if a tournament exists.
posted by mrgrimm at 3:04 PM on November 19, 2010
I think the problem that is that a true playoff system (4 or 8 or 16 or whatever) would make the bowls completely worthless. If there were an actual "national championship," any bowls not involved aren't going to make much money.
I think the solution might be a 16-team playoff with massive revenue sharing, and the 15 games spread around the major conferences, i.e. use the bowl games as first round, quarterfinal, semifinal, and final matchups.
The problem is that there are 35 bowls right now. I'm not convinced those bowls #16-35 will be as popular if a tournament exists.
posted by mrgrimm at 3:04 PM on November 19, 2010
But the NIT existed before the NCAA tournament, and it still continues. Sure, no one really cares about the NIT, but I assure you that no one cares about the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl either (which is, weirdly, one of the most likely landing spots for Boise, if they get frozen out of the BCS system this year).
Why do we care about the sanctity of the bowl system anyway? This is the very system that is screwing fans and teams over. If [it] dies, [it] dies.
posted by norm at 3:29 PM on November 19, 2010
Why do we care about the sanctity of the bowl system anyway? This is the very system that is screwing fans and teams over. If [it] dies, [it] dies.
posted by norm at 3:29 PM on November 19, 2010
I don't think a playoff would make the bowls irrelevant. As is, getting into a bowl has become so easy (The Little Caesars Bowl takes the 8th place Big Ten team -- 8 out of 11!) that, honestly, we could stand to lose a few.
I would guess the four main bowls would figure out a way to get in the mix with the playoffs, anyway. You need three sites for the semis and finals, and you'd probably want neutral site for the quarters as well. And even if they didn't, the Rose Bowl would still be able to get the #2/3 Pac 10 team vs the #2/#3 Big Ten team, which is what they're getting this year, anyway.
But there won't be a playoff as long as the BCS cabal exists. They are making hundreds of millions of dollars from their cash cows, and asking them to let go of them in the name of a playoff ain't gonna happen, not unless all the conferences agree to set up their own playoff system without them. Thing is, though, I bet a playoff system would make twice what the conferences currently make off the bowls, especially since they'd get the TV money and not just the bowl payout.
posted by dw at 3:51 PM on November 19, 2010
I would guess the four main bowls would figure out a way to get in the mix with the playoffs, anyway. You need three sites for the semis and finals, and you'd probably want neutral site for the quarters as well. And even if they didn't, the Rose Bowl would still be able to get the #2/3 Pac 10 team vs the #2/#3 Big Ten team, which is what they're getting this year, anyway.
But there won't be a playoff as long as the BCS cabal exists. They are making hundreds of millions of dollars from their cash cows, and asking them to let go of them in the name of a playoff ain't gonna happen, not unless all the conferences agree to set up their own playoff system without them. Thing is, though, I bet a playoff system would make twice what the conferences currently make off the bowls, especially since they'd get the TV money and not just the bowl payout.
posted by dw at 3:51 PM on November 19, 2010
one of the most likely landing spots for Boise, if they get frozen out of the BCS system this year
I was going to say that there's no way Boise could be locked out without losing, but as I'm looking at the rules, it's entirely possible they'll be frozen out even if they finish #4. The Top 4 rule isn't in there anymore, and the BCS rules only take one non-AQ automatically.
So even if TCU or Boise finish in the top 4, one of them may not get a berth. That's just messed up.
posted by dw at 4:08 PM on November 19, 2010
I was going to say that there's no way Boise could be locked out without losing, but as I'm looking at the rules, it's entirely possible they'll be frozen out even if they finish #4. The Top 4 rule isn't in there anymore, and the BCS rules only take one non-AQ automatically.
So even if TCU or Boise finish in the top 4, one of them may not get a berth. That's just messed up.
posted by dw at 4:08 PM on November 19, 2010
Well anything other than the championship game is just an exhibition game. So Boise, while being insulted and deprived of revenue, is really just being kept out of one meaningless game and forced to play in another.
It's not the same as leaving a team out of the NCAA basketball tournaments.
posted by oddman at 7:55 PM on November 19, 2010
It's not the same as leaving a team out of the NCAA basketball tournaments.
posted by oddman at 7:55 PM on November 19, 2010
This is another reason why the NCAA should be abolished. Let the NBA and NFL run their own minor league programs.
posted by Yakuman at 1:40 AM on November 20, 2010
posted by Yakuman at 1:40 AM on November 20, 2010
Update: Holy bejeezus, what an Iron Bowl. Auburn was down 24-0, but rallied to beat Alabama 28-27. Newton threw for 3 TDs and ran for one.
Auburn is now two wins from the national championship, and Cam Newton is almost certainly the Heisman Trophy winner.*
* - This comment will be stricken from the thread should Auburn be forced to vacate the 2010 season.
posted by dw at 6:32 PM on November 26, 2010
Auburn is now two wins from the national championship, and Cam Newton is almost certainly the Heisman Trophy winner.*
* - This comment will be stricken from the thread should Auburn be forced to vacate the 2010 season.
posted by dw at 6:32 PM on November 26, 2010
I watched the AU-UA game. Neither team looked as good as Oregon or Stanford. Both their QBs are better than Newton.
SEC seems overrated.
As is, getting into a bowl has become so easy (The Little Caesars Bowl takes the 8th place Big Ten team -- 8 out of 11!) that, honestly, we could stand to lose a few.
Of course we could stand to lose a few bowls. We could stand to lose about 20 of them. But our opinion doesn't matter.
But the NIT existed before the NCAA tournament, and it still continues. Sure, no one really cares about the NIT, but I assure you that no one cares about the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl either (which is, weirdly, one of the most likely landing spots for Boise, if they get frozen out of the BCS system this year).
Why do we care about the sanctity of the bowl system anyway? This is the very system that is screwing fans and teams over. If [it] dies, [it] dies.
Again, we don't care. But the conferences and schools sure do. There's just too much money in the current bowl system to abandon it.
If you want a tournament, stop watching and supporting any bowl games. Until fans stop watching and buying tickets, the BCS and the bowl games are not going anywhere.
posted by mrgrimm at 9:33 PM on November 26, 2010
SEC seems overrated.
As is, getting into a bowl has become so easy (The Little Caesars Bowl takes the 8th place Big Ten team -- 8 out of 11!) that, honestly, we could stand to lose a few.
Of course we could stand to lose a few bowls. We could stand to lose about 20 of them. But our opinion doesn't matter.
But the NIT existed before the NCAA tournament, and it still continues. Sure, no one really cares about the NIT, but I assure you that no one cares about the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl either (which is, weirdly, one of the most likely landing spots for Boise, if they get frozen out of the BCS system this year).
Why do we care about the sanctity of the bowl system anyway? This is the very system that is screwing fans and teams over. If [it] dies, [it] dies.
Again, we don't care. But the conferences and schools sure do. There's just too much money in the current bowl system to abandon it.
If you want a tournament, stop watching and supporting any bowl games. Until fans stop watching and buying tickets, the BCS and the bowl games are not going anywhere.
posted by mrgrimm at 9:33 PM on November 26, 2010
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posted by JPD at 10:34 AM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]