Missing Husband
June 12, 2013 8:43 PM Subscribe
This is complete and utter bullshit. I am somehow always surprised by this backward nonsense in our modern world.
posted by evilDoug at 9:06 PM on June 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 9:06 PM on June 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
To be fair though, the United States is anti every marriage when it comes to immigration. Gay folk more so but it is a decidedly anti foreign immigrant marriage country (says the guy trapped as an H1B spouse alimentary canal until his wife's proper visa comes through).
posted by srboisvert at 10:35 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 10:35 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
I had someone talk at me about binational gay couples and how they wanted special rights, because other couples had to deal with the system and some of them got rejected and couldn't come to the US. Eventually, my control snapped, and I told him that under DOMA, gay couples couldn't even apply whereas straight couples could.
"Until gay couples can apply and get rejected like a straight couple can, no, it's not special rights, it's the same damn special discrimination that thin-minded bigots like you pile on gay people!"
I was asked if I was gay after that; he didn't like my reply to that question either.
("No, I'm human. More human than you.")
posted by mephron at 11:07 PM on June 12, 2013 [19 favorites]
"Until gay couples can apply and get rejected like a straight couple can, no, it's not special rights, it's the same damn special discrimination that thin-minded bigots like you pile on gay people!"
I was asked if I was gay after that; he didn't like my reply to that question either.
("No, I'm human. More human than you.")
posted by mephron at 11:07 PM on June 12, 2013 [19 favorites]
Marriage is legal in England. Jason can sponsor David. What if David moved to England? I moved to Germany in 2005 for exactly the same reasons. Either way, sooner or later one is going to have to leave country, family, friends, job, house or apartment, in order to be together.
posted by joe arevalo at 12:52 AM on June 13, 2013
posted by joe arevalo at 12:52 AM on June 13, 2013
A very worthwhile project, DOMA is bullshit. And this is obviously a hole in the system. I went through this for a few years with my British partner after she was sent back to London, until we were (straight) married, it was always dicey. Must be even worse in these guys situation.
I'm curious about about one thing, the warning about not being allowed the tourist visa option. Was there more info? In my case, I aways assumed that due to the Visa Waiver program the 90 day (now 60 days maybe?) tourist option was ALWAYS there.
How can they deny them their right to travel as a tourist on the VISA waiver until DOMA gets shitcanned?
Its not a substitute for DOMA getting turfed, but they shouldn't be denied it in the meantime. Otherwise, they should come here to the UK, a few vitamin D supplements can take the place of that LA sun and the culture is welcoming.
posted by C.A.S. at 1:35 AM on June 13, 2013
I'm curious about about one thing, the warning about not being allowed the tourist visa option. Was there more info? In my case, I aways assumed that due to the Visa Waiver program the 90 day (now 60 days maybe?) tourist option was ALWAYS there.
How can they deny them their right to travel as a tourist on the VISA waiver until DOMA gets shitcanned?
Its not a substitute for DOMA getting turfed, but they shouldn't be denied it in the meantime. Otherwise, they should come here to the UK, a few vitamin D supplements can take the place of that LA sun and the culture is welcoming.
posted by C.A.S. at 1:35 AM on June 13, 2013
I'm also very interested to find out more about the possibility of blocking someone from even visiting. It adds another layer of suck to an already fairly unbearable situation - this whole DOMA thing is exactly why my partner had to move to Europe. Yeah, trying to immigrate to the US is rough, but not even having that option is... worse.
On the upside, all couples can get legally married in my home country, and gay marriage looks likely to happen in the UK where we are living, too, so at least a lot is moving in the right direction. Here is to hoping the US will follow.
posted by harujion at 2:40 AM on June 13, 2013
On the upside, all couples can get legally married in my home country, and gay marriage looks likely to happen in the UK where we are living, too, so at least a lot is moving in the right direction. Here is to hoping the US will follow.
posted by harujion at 2:40 AM on June 13, 2013
My understanding on the tourist visa thing is that any country's border control is allowed to reject your visa if they think you intend to stay or act beyond its terms. So if he comes in on a visitor visa, is asked "Why are you coming in," says "I'm visiting my husband," a particularly bitchy/homophobic border control agent can in all legality say "Oh, then I bet you're going to try to overstay your 90 days. Visa rejected. Get back on the next plane to Heathrow." You don't have a "right" to travel as a tourist.
My husband and I are a binational couple, living in a third country together (thanks to our eligibility for spousal visas), and every time I came in to Heathrow prior to our marriage to visit him, I was asked "Are you planning to move here?" It was even less subtle once I had an engagement ring. The implication is, "You seem like the type who has more ties to this country than to your home one. I want to make sure you're not going to do something illegal." And they are allowed to send you back home if they think you will.
(IANAImmigrationL)
posted by olinerd at 2:47 AM on June 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
My husband and I are a binational couple, living in a third country together (thanks to our eligibility for spousal visas), and every time I came in to Heathrow prior to our marriage to visit him, I was asked "Are you planning to move here?" It was even less subtle once I had an engagement ring. The implication is, "You seem like the type who has more ties to this country than to your home one. I want to make sure you're not going to do something illegal." And they are allowed to send you back home if they think you will.
(IANAImmigrationL)
posted by olinerd at 2:47 AM on June 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Marriage is legal in England. Jason can sponsor David. What if David moved to England?
While the gay-marriage debate did happen in England a few weeks back, my understanding is that the partner visa was valid for all forms of long-term partners (not entirely sure how the Border Agency defines 'long-term'), not just spouses or people in a civil union.
However, the big trouble there is the financial requirement; the British partner now needs to show s/he can earn at least 18k pounds/ year. This has been problematic for many, to say the least.
posted by the cydonian at 4:22 AM on June 13, 2013
While the gay-marriage debate did happen in England a few weeks back, my understanding is that the partner visa was valid for all forms of long-term partners (not entirely sure how the Border Agency defines 'long-term'), not just spouses or people in a civil union.
However, the big trouble there is the financial requirement; the British partner now needs to show s/he can earn at least 18k pounds/ year. This has been problematic for many, to say the least.
posted by the cydonian at 4:22 AM on June 13, 2013
The UK thing is tricky, based on my experience last year applying for a spousal visa. There was no cohabitation requirement for a spousal visa, just a requirement to show legal/financial co-dependence. However, if the US does not federally recognize Jason and David's marriage (or even civil partnership), would it be valid for them to apply in the UK under spousal rules? (That's an honest question. Marriage licenses in the US are issued by the state, not the federal government, and that's all we had to submit. But does the UK recognize that for same-sex couples knowing that those licenses mean nothing federally?)
If the UK did not consider them legally married due to the US's fuckeduppery and they chose to get married/civilly partnered in the UK and remove all uncertainty, first they would have to apply for a Fiance visa to allow them to get married in the UK, then they'd have to apply for a spousal visa. Two separate applications, two separate fees, two separate waiting periods.
The other option is Unmarried Partner, which requires two years of co-habitation with sufficient evidence to back that up. Difficult when you can't stay together for more than a couple of months at a time, let alone sign a mortgage or lease together.
In both cases you're supposed to show evidence of joint bank accounts. I added my non-American husband to my account in the US which then caused my accounts to be temporarily frozen for a couple of days under the PATRIOT Act when they screwed up the processing of his paperwork, because omg foreigner.
So yeah, I don't think the UK option is not a straightforward one. They might have better luck in the end with the legal recognition, but it is not a trivial solution.
Visas cost a lot of money to apply for. Immigration lawyers are expensive. There are crazy headaches (like the PATRIOT Act) trying to get all your ducks in a row for an application. If Jason has been planning to move the US, chances are he doesn't have a full-time job paying the minimum required to sponsor David; he'd have to find that and establish himself in that before they could apply. Visas don't magically happen -- they are intentionally difficult and time-consuming and expensive to obtain, and are a gamble even for the most established and "traditional" of couples. (My bi-national in-laws had the validity of their relationship challenged after something like 25 years of marriage and 4 kids when they tried to move to my MIL's home country) Adding in the uncertainty same-sex couples face with whether their relationship will be legally recognized, let alone interpreted to be valid, is just downright cruel.
posted by olinerd at 4:43 AM on June 13, 2013
If the UK did not consider them legally married due to the US's fuckeduppery and they chose to get married/civilly partnered in the UK and remove all uncertainty, first they would have to apply for a Fiance visa to allow them to get married in the UK, then they'd have to apply for a spousal visa. Two separate applications, two separate fees, two separate waiting periods.
The other option is Unmarried Partner, which requires two years of co-habitation with sufficient evidence to back that up. Difficult when you can't stay together for more than a couple of months at a time, let alone sign a mortgage or lease together.
In both cases you're supposed to show evidence of joint bank accounts. I added my non-American husband to my account in the US which then caused my accounts to be temporarily frozen for a couple of days under the PATRIOT Act when they screwed up the processing of his paperwork, because omg foreigner.
So yeah, I don't think the UK option is not a straightforward one. They might have better luck in the end with the legal recognition, but it is not a trivial solution.
Visas cost a lot of money to apply for. Immigration lawyers are expensive. There are crazy headaches (like the PATRIOT Act) trying to get all your ducks in a row for an application. If Jason has been planning to move the US, chances are he doesn't have a full-time job paying the minimum required to sponsor David; he'd have to find that and establish himself in that before they could apply. Visas don't magically happen -- they are intentionally difficult and time-consuming and expensive to obtain, and are a gamble even for the most established and "traditional" of couples. (My bi-national in-laws had the validity of their relationship challenged after something like 25 years of marriage and 4 kids when they tried to move to my MIL's home country) Adding in the uncertainty same-sex couples face with whether their relationship will be legally recognized, let alone interpreted to be valid, is just downright cruel.
posted by olinerd at 4:43 AM on June 13, 2013
The United States allowed me - a foreigner - to bring my equally foreign but hetero-husband to the US on my student visa. Gay Americans are not even being allowed the same rights as non-citizens.
posted by jb at 7:09 AM on June 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by jb at 7:09 AM on June 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
Things like this remind me how much of a second class citizen I am in my own country. It's a slow, exhausting form of discrimination.
Random current event: Glenn Greenwald, the journalist publishing so many of the NSA leak stories this month, is an American citizen living in Brazil because his husband is not allowed to immigrate to the United States.
the United States is anti every marriage when it comes to immigration.
With all due respect to you and your wife's visa problems, it's not really comparable. US immigration law is on your side here and ultimately your heterosexual marriage will very likely be honored (albeit with a lot of offensive hoops to jump through, doubly so given the stupid H1B system). At the moment there is absolutely no possibility for a homosexual married couple to get immigration rights.
posted by Nelson at 8:48 AM on June 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
Random current event: Glenn Greenwald, the journalist publishing so many of the NSA leak stories this month, is an American citizen living in Brazil because his husband is not allowed to immigrate to the United States.
the United States is anti every marriage when it comes to immigration.
With all due respect to you and your wife's visa problems, it's not really comparable. US immigration law is on your side here and ultimately your heterosexual marriage will very likely be honored (albeit with a lot of offensive hoops to jump through, doubly so given the stupid H1B system). At the moment there is absolutely no possibility for a homosexual married couple to get immigration rights.
posted by Nelson at 8:48 AM on June 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
By the way, check this asshole out.
Rubio says if immigration bill helps gays, I'm out
posted by C.A.S. at 2:14 PM on June 13, 2013
Rubio says if immigration bill helps gays, I'm out
posted by C.A.S. at 2:14 PM on June 13, 2013
With all due respect to you and your wife's visa problems, it's not really comparable. US immigration law is on your side here and ultimately your heterosexual marriage will very likely be honored (albeit with a lot of offensive hoops to jump through, doubly so given the stupid H1B system). At the moment there is absolutely no possibility for a homosexual married couple to get immigration rights.
My bad. It was a rather poorly done and inarticulate attempt at common cause. It ain't all roses for hetero marriages and immigration but at least we can be together and hopefully eventually get through the system.
Immigration reform for EVERYONE. I'm for it.
posted by srboisvert at 9:30 PM on June 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
My bad. It was a rather poorly done and inarticulate attempt at common cause. It ain't all roses for hetero marriages and immigration but at least we can be together and hopefully eventually get through the system.
Immigration reform for EVERYONE. I'm for it.
posted by srboisvert at 9:30 PM on June 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
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posted by decathecting at 8:55 PM on June 12, 2013 [10 favorites]