2+2=5
March 11, 2019 12:39 PM Subscribe
Alternative Math, a short film: A well meaning math teacher finds herself trumped by a post-fact America
I'll have to come back later and watch the rest, when I'm in a better mindset. I had to bail when the parents came in because I quite honestly can believe parents like that exist, and it boils my blood a bit.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:13 PM on March 11, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 1:13 PM on March 11, 2019 [9 favorites]
because I quite honestly can believe parents like that exist,
Indeed, just look at the antivax movement and the destruction/death that is causing. I stopped watching because this isn't really a satire/fiction. We live this reality every day.
posted by Fizz at 1:14 PM on March 11, 2019 [4 favorites]
Indeed, just look at the antivax movement and the destruction/death that is causing. I stopped watching because this isn't really a satire/fiction. We live this reality every day.
posted by Fizz at 1:14 PM on March 11, 2019 [4 favorites]
The fun thing about the Youtube comments is that everything thinks that their political and social ideas are as irrefutable as arithmetic, and their political and social enemies are just like the parents.
posted by clawsoon at 1:22 PM on March 11, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 1:22 PM on March 11, 2019 [12 favorites]
As a parent, trained teacher and former operator of a tutoring service (we taught, among other things, math), I've had the exact opposite problem, especially as a new learning curriculum has been introduced over the past decade that stresses "core competencies".
For better or for worse, the 2+2 algorithm or drill in the sketch is no longer taught in school in Canada. Indeed, it has been difficult to determine how numeracy is taught in elementary and middle school so far. Part of the challenge is that elementary school teachers in particular are generalists, and you need to have a special focus to competently teach math.
As our older son has progressed through high school, things have become a bit more "normal" (or recognizable to my brain, which studied trig and Calculus 30 years ago).
So I guess alls well that ends well.
But my main contention here is that it's us parents who have wacky ideas about how math should be taught.
I trust teachers to do a good job teaching, but it's hardly surprisingly that the cross-functional/cross-disciplinary approach can be surprising and confusing to parents, if the approach is not explained properly.
Many parents are highly educated professionals. To treat us like we're dumb dinosaurs is insulting.
posted by JamesBay at 1:31 PM on March 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
For better or for worse, the 2+2 algorithm or drill in the sketch is no longer taught in school in Canada. Indeed, it has been difficult to determine how numeracy is taught in elementary and middle school so far. Part of the challenge is that elementary school teachers in particular are generalists, and you need to have a special focus to competently teach math.
As our older son has progressed through high school, things have become a bit more "normal" (or recognizable to my brain, which studied trig and Calculus 30 years ago).
So I guess alls well that ends well.
But my main contention here is that it's us parents who have wacky ideas about how math should be taught.
I trust teachers to do a good job teaching, but it's hardly surprisingly that the cross-functional/cross-disciplinary approach can be surprising and confusing to parents, if the approach is not explained properly.
Many parents are highly educated professionals. To treat us like we're dumb dinosaurs is insulting.
posted by JamesBay at 1:31 PM on March 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
JamesBay: Many parents are highly educated professionals. To treat us like we're dumb dinosaurs is insulting.
Probably not a good idea to treat any parent like they're dumb, highly educated or not.
I have to say that parents helping children with their homework is a strange new world for me. I wonder where and when (and with whom) it started.
posted by clawsoon at 1:38 PM on March 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
Probably not a good idea to treat any parent like they're dumb, highly educated or not.
I have to say that parents helping children with their homework is a strange new world for me. I wonder where and when (and with whom) it started.
posted by clawsoon at 1:38 PM on March 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
To treat us like we're dumb dinosaurs is insulting.
Parents who insist that 2+2 could be (or even worse, definitely is) 22 are worse than dumb... they are dangerously delusional. But there are things that should be obviously wrong that are still 'popular opinions' (that cutting taxes will increase government revenues, thank you Mr. Laffer). The ending (spoiler) where the teacher uses turnabout to get paid $22,000 represents one of the best ways to respond to the bad actors, that I wish could be utilized more often.
Sadly, most of education is not math; most of the sciences contain a lot of facts that are subject to revision, and history contains a lot of 'facts' that are just lies that society has come to accept as the best story. As is said so many other places, "it's complicated", but the worst thing we can do is complicate the easy parts.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:55 PM on March 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
Parents who insist that 2+2 could be (or even worse, definitely is) 22 are worse than dumb... they are dangerously delusional. But there are things that should be obviously wrong that are still 'popular opinions' (that cutting taxes will increase government revenues, thank you Mr. Laffer). The ending (spoiler) where the teacher uses turnabout to get paid $22,000 represents one of the best ways to respond to the bad actors, that I wish could be utilized more often.
Sadly, most of education is not math; most of the sciences contain a lot of facts that are subject to revision, and history contains a lot of 'facts' that are just lies that society has come to accept as the best story. As is said so many other places, "it's complicated", but the worst thing we can do is complicate the easy parts.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:55 PM on March 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
also chrominance has it right: if 2+2 = 22, why is 2,000+2,000 not 20,002,000?
Scientific notation, obvs.
posted by clawsoon at 2:20 PM on March 11, 2019 [5 favorites]
Scientific notation, obvs.
posted by clawsoon at 2:20 PM on March 11, 2019 [5 favorites]
The fun thing about the Youtube comments is that everything thinks that their political and social ideas are as irrefutable as arithmetic, and their political and social enemies are just like the parents.
posted by clawsoon at 1:22 PM on March 11 [2 favorites +] [!]
It ain't about political and social ideas.
It's about politicizing factual knowledge by denying it (see, e.g., anti-vaxxers, climate deniers, evolution deniers, Biblical literalists, and Trump wall supporters). As some sink deeper and deeper into tribal shibboleths, they need to deny inconvenient truths. The video shows how they go about doing that for political reasons, destroying agreed-upon facts in the process and rending the body politic. Eventually, like the teacher getting a bigger (but not big enough, as others have pointed out) severance, it comes back to bite the deniers. Mar-a-Lago will be claimed by the sea.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:26 PM on March 11, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 1:22 PM on March 11 [2 favorites +] [!]
It ain't about political and social ideas.
It's about politicizing factual knowledge by denying it (see, e.g., anti-vaxxers, climate deniers, evolution deniers, Biblical literalists, and Trump wall supporters). As some sink deeper and deeper into tribal shibboleths, they need to deny inconvenient truths. The video shows how they go about doing that for political reasons, destroying agreed-upon facts in the process and rending the body politic. Eventually, like the teacher getting a bigger (but not big enough, as others have pointed out) severance, it comes back to bite the deniers. Mar-a-Lago will be claimed by the sea.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:26 PM on March 11, 2019 [4 favorites]
I mean, 2 + 2 = 10 in base 4. And 11 in base 3!
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:26 PM on March 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:26 PM on March 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
Mental Wimp: It ain't about political and social ideas.
I know that, and you know that, but try explaining that to the "this is how SJWs are destroying America!" folks in the Youtube comments.
posted by clawsoon at 2:35 PM on March 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
I know that, and you know that, but try explaining that to the "this is how SJWs are destroying America!" folks in the Youtube comments.
posted by clawsoon at 2:35 PM on March 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
grumpybear69: I mean, 2 + 2 = 10 in base 4. And 11 in base 3!
In which base does 2 + 2 = 22?
posted by clawsoon at 2:36 PM on March 11, 2019
In which base does 2 + 2 = 22?
posted by clawsoon at 2:36 PM on March 11, 2019
python strings?
posted by Zalzidrax at 2:38 PM on March 11, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by Zalzidrax at 2:38 PM on March 11, 2019 [9 favorites]
Except that would be '2'+'2' = '22'
posted by Zalzidrax at 2:38 PM on March 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Zalzidrax at 2:38 PM on March 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
Strictly typed variables or bust!
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:40 PM on March 11, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:40 PM on March 11, 2019 [5 favorites]
Like 20 years ago Virginia had a republican governor who cut teachers salaries by 10%. After an uproar, he increased their new, lower salaries by 10% and said, "You're back where you started, happy now?!"
Teachers explaining how percentages work to the governor was pretty funny, but it didn't get them any more money.
posted by peeedro at 2:42 PM on March 11, 2019 [23 favorites]
Teachers explaining how percentages work to the governor was pretty funny, but it didn't get them any more money.
posted by peeedro at 2:42 PM on March 11, 2019 [23 favorites]
Umm, 2 + 2 = 💩💩💩💩 in base 1.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:59 PM on March 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:59 PM on March 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
Oh I know I just wanted to use poop emoji and math together.
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:10 PM on March 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:10 PM on March 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
This already took place about two decades ago in Ontario schools. The damage is still being done, and cost to fix it has yet to be determined.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 3:20 PM on March 11, 2019
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 3:20 PM on March 11, 2019
Yeah, that was a little too close to current events to really enjoy.
If it wasn't for the spoiler, I wouldn't have watched through to the end.
Probably not a good idea to treat any parent like they're dumb, highly educated or not.
I'm vaguely remembering a story about Richard Feynman having a meeting with one of his child's teachers, and the teacher was trying to explain some math to him.
Wish I could remember the details, but the parents in this clip were not potential Nobel Prize winners. (I hope)
posted by MtDewd at 3:23 PM on March 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
If it wasn't for the spoiler, I wouldn't have watched through to the end.
Probably not a good idea to treat any parent like they're dumb, highly educated or not.
I'm vaguely remembering a story about Richard Feynman having a meeting with one of his child's teachers, and the teacher was trying to explain some math to him.
Wish I could remember the details, but the parents in this clip were not potential Nobel Prize winners. (I hope)
posted by MtDewd at 3:23 PM on March 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
*Comes in for the radical math puns*
*Looks around, reads first several comments*
...
*Backs away slooooowly....*
posted by eviemath at 3:26 PM on March 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
*Looks around, reads first several comments*
...
*Backs away slooooowly....*
posted by eviemath at 3:26 PM on March 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
I always try to remember to simplify radical expressions
... or at least restrict them to the numerator
posted by sjswitzer at 3:46 PM on March 11, 2019
... or at least restrict them to the numerator
posted by sjswitzer at 3:46 PM on March 11, 2019
They got the major cable networks spot on. The CNN-like panel representing "both sides" was especially enjoyable.
posted by Chuffy at 4:14 PM on March 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Chuffy at 4:14 PM on March 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
On the other other hand:
I wish we'd been able to see more of the solutions on the kid's paper, in the video. The first three seem to follow the same rule? Because the important question for teaching mathematics is, did he get all the problems wrong in the same way? If so, then that's a super-teachable moment. Students using any kind of pattern whatsoever are way easier to help than students who answer near-randomly.
I went to decent-ish K-12 in the USA from about 1994 - 2006 and we were never taught to reason consistently in our mathematics classes; we were just taught to execute algorithms that we didn't understand. Does anyone think it would help if basic logic was taught in math courses? Or would that just give people more avenues to deploy motivated reasoning? Does anyone know why it isn't taught?
I keep thinking that if more people knew logic and rhetoric the public discourse would be in better shape, but that's probably a delusion based on doing some college courses in math.
posted by kitten_hat at 5:04 PM on March 11, 2019
I wish we'd been able to see more of the solutions on the kid's paper, in the video. The first three seem to follow the same rule? Because the important question for teaching mathematics is, did he get all the problems wrong in the same way? If so, then that's a super-teachable moment. Students using any kind of pattern whatsoever are way easier to help than students who answer near-randomly.
I went to decent-ish K-12 in the USA from about 1994 - 2006 and we were never taught to reason consistently in our mathematics classes; we were just taught to execute algorithms that we didn't understand. Does anyone think it would help if basic logic was taught in math courses? Or would that just give people more avenues to deploy motivated reasoning? Does anyone know why it isn't taught?
I keep thinking that if more people knew logic and rhetoric the public discourse would be in better shape, but that's probably a delusion based on doing some college courses in math.
posted by kitten_hat at 5:04 PM on March 11, 2019
I found this too close to real life.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:16 PM on March 11, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 5:16 PM on March 11, 2019 [4 favorites]
This already took place about two decades ago in Ontario schools. The damage is still being done, and cost to fix it has yet to be determined.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your comment, but this has nothing to do with how math is taught in Ontario. I think the general public has huge misconceptions about math instruction. Discovery math, as it's often called, isn't an anything goes proposition. It's really about meeting kids where they're at, correcting misconceptions and providing specific strategies (counting 3 times, skip counting, up and down from 10, etc. all the way up to standard and alternative algorithms and automatic retrieval). The real tragedy is that most math is not taught this way. Instead it's taught with worksheets. If a student doesn't "get it" give them another worksheet. This hardly helps improve understanding. In my school board at least teachers are being taught the work of Jo Boaler in the US and Alex Lawson in Canada. Two women who have actually researched how kids learn math and how to support them.
As for "the damage [that] is still being done", despite the handwringing, if Ontario were a country we'd be 11th in the world on the PISA ranking. That's higher than every western country except Switzerland and Estonia. That's also significantly above the OECD average. So forgive me if I don't know what you mean by damage that needs fixing. Are there problems? For sure. Are they dire? Absolutely not. Can we do better? Of course we can. But don't believe the hyperbole of the press or our current government.
As a side note, Ontario is the highest ranked jurisdiction in the world for reading on the PISA and we rank 6th in science. So we must be doing something right.
posted by trigger at 5:45 PM on March 11, 2019 [11 favorites]
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your comment, but this has nothing to do with how math is taught in Ontario. I think the general public has huge misconceptions about math instruction. Discovery math, as it's often called, isn't an anything goes proposition. It's really about meeting kids where they're at, correcting misconceptions and providing specific strategies (counting 3 times, skip counting, up and down from 10, etc. all the way up to standard and alternative algorithms and automatic retrieval). The real tragedy is that most math is not taught this way. Instead it's taught with worksheets. If a student doesn't "get it" give them another worksheet. This hardly helps improve understanding. In my school board at least teachers are being taught the work of Jo Boaler in the US and Alex Lawson in Canada. Two women who have actually researched how kids learn math and how to support them.
As for "the damage [that] is still being done", despite the handwringing, if Ontario were a country we'd be 11th in the world on the PISA ranking. That's higher than every western country except Switzerland and Estonia. That's also significantly above the OECD average. So forgive me if I don't know what you mean by damage that needs fixing. Are there problems? For sure. Are they dire? Absolutely not. Can we do better? Of course we can. But don't believe the hyperbole of the press or our current government.
As a side note, Ontario is the highest ranked jurisdiction in the world for reading on the PISA and we rank 6th in science. So we must be doing something right.
posted by trigger at 5:45 PM on March 11, 2019 [11 favorites]
2 + 2 = 5, when you're dealing with sound pressure levels in dB(A) at least.
posted by scruss at 6:05 PM on March 11, 2019
posted by scruss at 6:05 PM on March 11, 2019
I like your conclusion of base 1, 23skidoo. Of course it only makes sense if the symbol "2" actually means 1, that is we are using "2" as a tally mark, instead of * or |. Then the resulting equation is true in the sense of both Python strings and integers. And being true in 2 senses at once is better than in just one sense, unless I'm miscounting.
posted by TreeRooster at 8:07 PM on March 11, 2019
posted by TreeRooster at 8:07 PM on March 11, 2019
In base "set theoretic arithmetic", all things are merely tally marks.
posted by kaibutsu at 9:42 PM on March 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 9:42 PM on March 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
2 + 2 = 5, when you're dealing with sound pressure levels in dB(A) at least.
2 + 2 = 22 in base 1, QEDuh
These are jokes but I really wish they'd leaned into a "show your work" approach rather than "the people who disagree with us are total morons and bullies and should just do as the experts tell them". A lot of people have very good reason to mistrust so called experts and "shut up and trust us to do what's good for you" isn't cutting it anymore.
posted by Reyturner at 9:56 PM on March 11, 2019
2 + 2 = 22 in base 1, QEDuh
These are jokes but I really wish they'd leaned into a "show your work" approach rather than "the people who disagree with us are total morons and bullies and should just do as the experts tell them". A lot of people have very good reason to mistrust so called experts and "shut up and trust us to do what's good for you" isn't cutting it anymore.
posted by Reyturner at 9:56 PM on March 11, 2019
The comments on administrative cowardice, however, are spot on.
posted by Reyturner at 10:03 PM on March 11, 2019
posted by Reyturner at 10:03 PM on March 11, 2019
Most facts in life aren't that solid, and we do ourselves a disservice by treating them as if they were. But it's not impossible that someone overly used to debatable facts would come out with something like "[t]he laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia."
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 2:25 AM on March 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 2:25 AM on March 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
I don't know that I can ever use that verb again. I've even stopped playing Spades.
posted by sydnius at 5:50 AM on March 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by sydnius at 5:50 AM on March 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
The teacher should have explained that F is the highest grade.
posted by Obscure Reference at 6:01 AM on March 12, 2019
posted by Obscure Reference at 6:01 AM on March 12, 2019
I really wish they'd leaned into a "show your work" approach rather than "the people who disagree with us are total morons and bullies and should just do as the experts tell them".
Well, if I have two markers in this hand, and two markers in this hand...
posted by ejs at 7:06 AM on March 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
Well, if I have two markers in this hand, and two markers in this hand...
posted by ejs at 7:06 AM on March 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
I'm surprised at how much they toned down CNN, Fox News, etc in the news segments.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:23 AM on March 12, 2019
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:23 AM on March 12, 2019
2 + 2 = 5, when you're dealing with sound pressure levels in dB(A) at least.
2 + 2 = 5 (for large values of 2)
posted by acb at 7:58 AM on March 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
2 + 2 = 5 (for large values of 2)
posted by acb at 7:58 AM on March 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm a former teacher. Parents like the ones in that video are one of the reasons I left the profession.
Teachers I know still in the profession say it's only gotten worse.
posted by prepmonkey at 9:22 AM on March 12, 2019 [3 favorites]
Teachers I know still in the profession say it's only gotten worse.
posted by prepmonkey at 9:22 AM on March 12, 2019 [3 favorites]
I had to bail when the parents came in because I quite honestly can believe parents like that exist, and it boils my blood a bit.
Oh yeah. It became noticeable in the late eighties. I was a bit skeptical when my first department head complained of a parent abusing one of her teachers at a P/T meeting. Boy. Was I ever wrong.
It was just the beginning of parents siding with their children no matter the facts.
Aside: The personal benefit? It was motivation for me to take an early retirement that cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars over time but saved my soul.
posted by notreally at 9:32 AM on March 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
Oh yeah. It became noticeable in the late eighties. I was a bit skeptical when my first department head complained of a parent abusing one of her teachers at a P/T meeting. Boy. Was I ever wrong.
It was just the beginning of parents siding with their children no matter the facts.
Aside: The personal benefit? It was motivation for me to take an early retirement that cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars over time but saved my soul.
posted by notreally at 9:32 AM on March 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
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By about $20 million.
posted by chrominance at 12:55 PM on March 11, 2019 [11 favorites]