Incredible superlyricism, what's the next topic
April 9, 2009 10:09 PM Subscribe
Supernatural, best known for his battles with (MC) Juice and his appearances on the Wake-Up Show, freestyle raps the entire lineup (8:33) of this year's Rock the Bells (Hip Hop) Festival as they sit behind him, leaving rap legend Krs-1 saying "That's the essence of emceeing...I'm just floored."
This cat lives to freestyle.
This cat lives to freestyle.
I didn't really want to hate on this but to me most freestyle rap -- even Supernatural's -- brings to mind Samuel Johnson's comment (as reported by Boswell, anyway)...
I don't really want to hate on your comment, but to me what you said brings to mind my comment (as reported by me) that you should STFU. ;-)
Awesome clip, thanks cashman!
posted by Edgewise at 11:03 PM on April 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
I don't really want to hate on your comment, but to me what you said brings to mind my comment (as reported by me) that you should STFU. ;-)
Awesome clip, thanks cashman!
posted by Edgewise at 11:03 PM on April 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
An awesome display of an inner monologue running at light speed.
Supernatural indeed.
posted by clearly at 11:09 PM on April 9, 2009
Supernatural indeed.
posted by clearly at 11:09 PM on April 9, 2009
Nat was cool. Ceelo was raw from day 1, but freestyle isn't supposed to be that serious. It's meant to entertain a group or battle somebody. I have two nephews who are exceptional rappers, and I know when they're freestyling because I know them. One best at the art, in my opinion, was DMX. He wasn't the greatest MC by far, but I have one of his old, old mixtapes from the late 90s, and he left the mic smoking on Hot 97 with Funkmaster Flex. Nat killed it too though. All you have to do is take the names of 12 people you know and record a freestyle about all of them for 8 minutes. Now compare it to any freestyle you can find on the net, and BOOM! You're on your way to 'playing MCs like a old accordion'. You have to be at least that good to make it in NYC. Anywhere else, just talk about pimps and hos (just the ones you know.) That was fresh.
posted by Flex1970 at 12:32 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by Flex1970 at 12:32 AM on April 10, 2009
For some reason, that 'freestyle raps the line-up' link isn't showing up for me. Even with NoScript and AdBlock Plus turned off.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:41 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:41 AM on April 10, 2009
Oh, s'ok. I got it.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:42 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:42 AM on April 10, 2009
No I don't. I got the frame now, but no clip in it. Just a continuous cycle of fail.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:47 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:47 AM on April 10, 2009
That was great!
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:17 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:17 AM on April 10, 2009
That CeeLo bit was as freestyle as my Torah portion.
posted by luckywanderboy at 3:27 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by luckywanderboy at 3:27 AM on April 10, 2009
What fun. I am floored.
posted by not_on_display at 5:13 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by not_on_display at 5:13 AM on April 10, 2009
I didn't really want to hate on this but to me most freestyle rap -- even Supernatural's -- brings to mind Samuel Johnson's comment (as reported by Boswell, anyway): "Sir, a woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."
Here you've trotted out some good old fashioned misogyny and reminded us of centuries of self-authenticating cultural imperialism to make an ill-informed generalization. Well done, sir.
Nice job on choosing the absolutely whitest authority on this matter. I would have personally gone with Dave Barry.
posted by hpliferaft at 5:17 AM on April 10, 2009 [13 favorites]
Here you've trotted out some good old fashioned misogyny and reminded us of centuries of self-authenticating cultural imperialism to make an ill-informed generalization. Well done, sir.
Nice job on choosing the absolutely whitest authority on this matter. I would have personally gone with Dave Barry.
posted by hpliferaft at 5:17 AM on April 10, 2009 [13 favorites]
I didn't really want to hate on this so I'll just shut the fuck up. In fact I won't even comment, I'll keep it to myself.
FTFY
posted by fullerine at 5:42 AM on April 10, 2009
FTFY
posted by fullerine at 5:42 AM on April 10, 2009
Oh man, here I was hoping to see a rap-off between Sam and Dean.
Why yes, I do glow in the dark. Why do you ask?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:04 AM on April 10, 2009
Why yes, I do glow in the dark. Why do you ask?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:04 AM on April 10, 2009
Wow, a lot of people are angry at a pretty mild comment.
posted by creasy boy at 6:14 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by creasy boy at 6:14 AM on April 10, 2009
'Freestyle' includes an element of stringing together quotes and written lines (or even couplets and quatrains--if you try to chase down an emcee's every radio-show freestyle, for example, this can become quickly apparent) and rhyme pairs that bounce around in your head all day. It always has.
posted by box at 6:16 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by box at 6:16 AM on April 10, 2009
That's very impressive, assuming it really was off the top of his head. I don't understand why that assumption would be made, though. Did he not know who was going to be in the lineup before he was put up there on stage?
I'm not saying it wasn't "freestyle", but I don't understand why it's apparently clear to everyone else that it was.
posted by Flunkie at 6:18 AM on April 10, 2009
I'm not saying it wasn't "freestyle", but I don't understand why it's apparently clear to everyone else that it was.
posted by Flunkie at 6:18 AM on April 10, 2009
He used a lot of standby rhymes and expressions as filler, which is usually a bit boring. What makes this exceptional is that he kept it going for a good 7 minutes, even getting the audience with him on some bits. Some of the rhymes were great, and you could see the guys behind him really responding to them. I mean, in the space of 7 minutes - at that speed - the chances of fumbling are pretty damn big.
posted by flippant at 6:34 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by flippant at 6:34 AM on April 10, 2009
As someone who has generally given up on rap because it has, to my ear, become too, too predictable, I was really happy to be so blown away.
posted by qldaddy at 6:39 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by qldaddy at 6:39 AM on April 10, 2009
@Flunkie I believe Supernatural said it was freestyle, so I'm taking him at his word. If it wasn't freestyle, that's a lot of preparation for a one-off that barely anyone is going to see. Besides, it sounded freestyle to me because there was a lot of out-of-context braggadocio, which I tend to associate with the form.
@creasy boy It was an annoying comment for multiple reasons. The initial disclaimer ("don't want to hate, but") was obviously the exact opposite of what he was going to do...so why bother? And while dissing a great freestyle and a great post, he managed to squeeze in some sexist imagery in the most pinkie-waving manner possible (Boswell? I'm so impressed).
posted by Edgewise at 6:39 AM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
@creasy boy It was an annoying comment for multiple reasons. The initial disclaimer ("don't want to hate, but") was obviously the exact opposite of what he was going to do...so why bother? And while dissing a great freestyle and a great post, he managed to squeeze in some sexist imagery in the most pinkie-waving manner possible (Boswell? I'm so impressed).
posted by Edgewise at 6:39 AM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
On August 5, 2006, Supernatural attempted to set a new world record for the longest freestyle whilst hosting the Rock The Bells festival in San Bernardino, CA. Supernatural freestyled for over nine hours, breaking the original record of 8 hours 45 minutes set by D.O. of Canada, but not the 10 hours 34 minutes set by British emcee Ruffstylz in October 2003.
posted by orville sash at 6:48 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by orville sash at 6:48 AM on April 10, 2009
He did it last year too. This is amazing.
Tabi Bonney too, show sounds interesting.
posted by now i'm piste at 6:58 AM on April 10, 2009
Tabi Bonney too, show sounds interesting.
posted by now i'm piste at 6:58 AM on April 10, 2009
The Supernatural clip was phenomenal. Every once in a while you see something that seems to require impossible amounts of skill. I don't know if I'll ever be a freestyle fan, but that really was fantastic.
posted by V'Ger at 6:58 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by V'Ger at 6:58 AM on April 10, 2009
Surely a hip-hop fan is allowed to voice the opinion that freestyle is usually only impressive because of its difficulty and not because of its results -- and that the results of rappers sitting down and choosing their words ahead of time are more satisfying? In a thread about freestyling? Without being told twice to "shut the fuck up"? I feel the same way, really, and the main link didn't really change my mind -- as flippant said, he uses a lot of stand-by phrases.
That said, that second link to the Wake Up Show is un-fucking-believable; they throw "Neanderthal Man" and "Pythagorum Theorum" at him and he doesn't miss a beat. I would love to see that with weirder rappers like Doom or RZA.
And how is Samuel Johnson the "absolute whitest authority ever"? What would authentic blackness look like in an 18th century British author?
posted by creasy boy at 7:36 AM on April 10, 2009
That said, that second link to the Wake Up Show is un-fucking-believable; they throw "Neanderthal Man" and "Pythagorum Theorum" at him and he doesn't miss a beat. I would love to see that with weirder rappers like Doom or RZA.
And how is Samuel Johnson the "absolute whitest authority ever"? What would authentic blackness look like in an 18th century British author?
posted by creasy boy at 7:36 AM on April 10, 2009
Freestyle is an art unto itself dude and you know it...you're setting up the difference as if it's between seeing some anonymous live Jazz band and listening to A Love Supreme--you can't say you wouldn't rather watch say, a freestyle fellowship meeting in 1992 rather than listen to some crappy ringtone record now.
I appreciate what you're saying but you framed in the worst possible way.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:53 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I appreciate what you're saying but you framed in the worst possible way.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:53 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure what's so difficult about the opinion. It's a subjective opinion, it's just my taste, but I'm usually not as happy listening to freestyle because they throw in a lot of standard phrasings. And yeah, they throw in those standard phrasing because it's so difficult to cohesively link thoughts together while rhyming. I know it's an art unto itself, but that doesn't help me. I'm not sure how it's possible to "frame" this badly -- it's a matter of taste. Some people are thrilled by the sheer virtuosity of it and the sense that you keep expecting him to crash and he doesn't, that he keeps the thing going -- like watching a trapeze act. But to my ears, when I hear him fall back on standard phrasings just to keep the beat, I feel like he has crashed it.
When it's done like this I like freestyling.
posted by creasy boy at 8:09 AM on April 10, 2009
When it's done like this I like freestyling.
posted by creasy boy at 8:09 AM on April 10, 2009
freestyle is usually only impressive because of its difficulty and not because of its results
They're partially impressive because of its difficulty, yes. What's wrong with that? It's called virtuosity - the value of which tends to be recognized in other, more entrenched art forms. Freestyle, still not so much.
And just speaking for myself, in a culture that tends to privilege either anal-retentive discipline or sloppy inebriated abandon, it's enriching to witness an art form which splits the difference, in which practitioners have found a way to use discipline to hone release.
Without being told twice to "shut the fuck up"?
unSane was told to STFU because he felt it necessary to kick off the thread with some bafflingly antiquated misogyny, not because he doesn't like freestyle.
Anyway, for anyone who digs on this stuff, I can't recommend Freestyle: The Art of Rhyme enough. Supernatural figures quite prominently at a couple of points.
posted by regicide is good for you at 8:40 AM on April 10, 2009
They're partially impressive because of its difficulty, yes. What's wrong with that? It's called virtuosity - the value of which tends to be recognized in other, more entrenched art forms. Freestyle, still not so much.
And just speaking for myself, in a culture that tends to privilege either anal-retentive discipline or sloppy inebriated abandon, it's enriching to witness an art form which splits the difference, in which practitioners have found a way to use discipline to hone release.
Without being told twice to "shut the fuck up"?
unSane was told to STFU because he felt it necessary to kick off the thread with some bafflingly antiquated misogyny, not because he doesn't like freestyle.
Anyway, for anyone who digs on this stuff, I can't recommend Freestyle: The Art of Rhyme enough. Supernatural figures quite prominently at a couple of points.
posted by regicide is good for you at 8:40 AM on April 10, 2009
Wow, Cee-Lo is really racist.
posted by electroboy at 8:42 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by electroboy at 8:42 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
A thousand thank yous and kisses for that.
That was phenomenal.
posted by Tena at 9:17 AM on April 10, 2009
That was phenomenal.
posted by Tena at 9:17 AM on April 10, 2009
I have to say, I don't get this at all (as usual with these).
I put Miles Davis (Jack Johnson) on hold to play this - I couldn't last more than two minutes.
1. So why is this "virtuoso"? I can make up poetry on the fly at haste, so can tons of other people. There isn't any deep structure nor long structure to the rhymes, and there's a very limited set of rhyming words, many of which simply refer to the genre itself (when I switched off, he was rhyming "Old school" with, I think, "cool".)
2. Must everything be bellowed?
3. Don't they have any idea that voices have pitch, that you can change and use? A timbre, that you can change and use?
4. Are humans really satisfied with live drummers being replaced by a fixed loop that never varies, except for the occasional cut-out?
5. Must the content always be so trivial and crass?
I've been a musician all my life. It's really hard for me to have any empathy with people who think a microphone is just a thing to bellow into.
I keep hoping. These various threads have introduced me to some hip-hop material I really liked, like Saul Williams and Aesop Rock - but this isn't it. Hip-hop is the Coca-Cola of pop music. The labels love it because you can make an entire album and never have to hire anyone who knows how to play an instrument.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:33 AM on April 10, 2009
I put Miles Davis (Jack Johnson) on hold to play this - I couldn't last more than two minutes.
1. So why is this "virtuoso"? I can make up poetry on the fly at haste, so can tons of other people. There isn't any deep structure nor long structure to the rhymes, and there's a very limited set of rhyming words, many of which simply refer to the genre itself (when I switched off, he was rhyming "Old school" with, I think, "cool".)
2. Must everything be bellowed?
3. Don't they have any idea that voices have pitch, that you can change and use? A timbre, that you can change and use?
4. Are humans really satisfied with live drummers being replaced by a fixed loop that never varies, except for the occasional cut-out?
5. Must the content always be so trivial and crass?
I've been a musician all my life. It's really hard for me to have any empathy with people who think a microphone is just a thing to bellow into.
I keep hoping. These various threads have introduced me to some hip-hop material I really liked, like Saul Williams and Aesop Rock - but this isn't it. Hip-hop is the Coca-Cola of pop music. The labels love it because you can make an entire album and never have to hire anyone who knows how to play an instrument.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:33 AM on April 10, 2009
It really isn't difficult to make things come in rhyme.
You have to think a little bit, you have to take your time.
Rappers think they're rapping but they're really shouting crap.
I'd rather sit through opera than another boring rap.
I can think of things to say that baffle every mind.
Thoughts and things that blow the head of all of humankind.
Concepts and constructions that will change the thoughts of God.
From galaxies to gargoyles or the fate of North Sea cod.
But what's the point in talking with a free-style mecho-beat?
I'd rather see some dude with a guitar who plays it neat.
(Written as fast as I can type... which is pretty fast. I selected Ogden Nash as today's inspiration...)
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:39 AM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
You have to think a little bit, you have to take your time.
Rappers think they're rapping but they're really shouting crap.
I'd rather sit through opera than another boring rap.
I can think of things to say that baffle every mind.
Thoughts and things that blow the head of all of humankind.
Concepts and constructions that will change the thoughts of God.
From galaxies to gargoyles or the fate of North Sea cod.
But what's the point in talking with a free-style mecho-beat?
I'd rather see some dude with a guitar who plays it neat.
(Written as fast as I can type... which is pretty fast. I selected Ogden Nash as today's inspiration...)
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:39 AM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
I can make up poetry on the fly at haste, so can tons of other people.
Really? Can you do it at 110bpm without flubbing a single word? For eight minutes straight (let alone eight hours)? Have you ever tried? There is absolutely zero pause for thought here - the beat keeps going whether you think of your next couplet or not.
The labels love it because you can make an entire album and never have to hire anyone who knows how to play an instrument.
Wow, this sure isn't true. Now that clearing samples has become such an arduous and expensive process, hip-hop producers hire top-flight sessions players to record original beats.
And seriously, the ivory tower criticisms of hip-hop are tiresome. I'm glad you've spent your life playing music, but music is played for people to listen to, and it seems that a lot of people like hip-hop. You really think there's nothing of value there, just because the vocalist isn't singing melody? You're right - there are basically two components to any kind of music: pitch and rhythm. Hip-hop is very big on the rhythm part. I'd love to hear your playing to see what kind of rhythm you've got.
posted by donblood at 9:43 AM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Really? Can you do it at 110bpm without flubbing a single word? For eight minutes straight (let alone eight hours)? Have you ever tried? There is absolutely zero pause for thought here - the beat keeps going whether you think of your next couplet or not.
The labels love it because you can make an entire album and never have to hire anyone who knows how to play an instrument.
Wow, this sure isn't true. Now that clearing samples has become such an arduous and expensive process, hip-hop producers hire top-flight sessions players to record original beats.
And seriously, the ivory tower criticisms of hip-hop are tiresome. I'm glad you've spent your life playing music, but music is played for people to listen to, and it seems that a lot of people like hip-hop. You really think there's nothing of value there, just because the vocalist isn't singing melody? You're right - there are basically two components to any kind of music: pitch and rhythm. Hip-hop is very big on the rhythm part. I'd love to hear your playing to see what kind of rhythm you've got.
posted by donblood at 9:43 AM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Yeah, lupus, did you type that in rhythm? You're completely missing the point here. Record yourself freestyling to a beat and then post it if you want to have any credibility. (Also your freestyle was absolutely terrible. You sound like a church pastor trying to connect with the youth.)
posted by donblood at 9:46 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by donblood at 9:46 AM on April 10, 2009
Wow, Cee-Lo is really racist.
If you go back and listen to the first Goodie MOB albums it's really interesting because Cee-Lo comes on and you can tell that this is someone who is phenomenally talented, but the shit they said was ridiculous. "Hollow point tips on a gay rights activist" etc., etc. I always wondered about the new Cee-Lo and whether he's had a change of heart on some things or just figured you get paid better playing to pop markets.
posted by thankyoujohnnyfever at 9:51 AM on April 10, 2009
If you go back and listen to the first Goodie MOB albums it's really interesting because Cee-Lo comes on and you can tell that this is someone who is phenomenally talented, but the shit they said was ridiculous. "Hollow point tips on a gay rights activist" etc., etc. I always wondered about the new Cee-Lo and whether he's had a change of heart on some things or just figured you get paid better playing to pop markets.
posted by thankyoujohnnyfever at 9:51 AM on April 10, 2009
that was out god damn standing. thanks for this. I need to go look up some more supernatural. holy fuck. I'm sitting here, a red smear on the ceiling, and I look down and there are my socks still rigid on the floor, shaped like the feet that used to be in 'em with smoke curling up out of the holes.
posted by shmegegge at 10:04 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by shmegegge at 10:04 AM on April 10, 2009
I'm not trying to "freestyle" at all - did you not get that I don't like it? - but to show that making up rhymes as fast as you can speak isn't much trick at all.
But there are recordings out there of my hip-hop work as "Volectrix" with Kid Lucky (unfortunately, it looks like half of the site is missing... perhaps they removed the actual album stuff and left the outtakes?)
Can I do it at 110bpm without flubbing a single word? When I was in practice. Why do you think 110bpm is fast? 110bpm is a slightly slow rock beat.
But why do I want to hear uninteresting stuff at a high speed? It's monotonous without being trancey. It's like television!
I can listen to Kraftwerk or Fela - why do I want to hear these dull drum loops?
Giant Steps is virtuoso. I'm a good player, I can't do that shit. The amount of work that Coltrane put into making Giant Steps smooth is just inconceivable. Fela was a virtuoso performer, even though he's only really great at singing and has limited skill when he plays keyboard or sax - the force of his ideas overpowers his lack of technique.
Devo, at their height, virtuoso - I have a bootleg where they're playing "Uncontrollable Urge" at an incredible speed (upwards of 160) and then they, out of choice, "freeze" on the break, a sort of crazed paradiddle on drum, bass and guitar - and you can hear the crowd just start screaming at the top of their lungs, because the music is almost intolerably energetic!
Blah blah classical music Ella Fitzgerald Moxie Früvous Indian classical music Balinese gamelan....
Some guy blah-blahing, picking rhymes out of a small bag and putting them into a content-free rap using one of a limited number of rhyme patterns, that's not virtuoso.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:12 AM on April 10, 2009
But there are recordings out there of my hip-hop work as "Volectrix" with Kid Lucky (unfortunately, it looks like half of the site is missing... perhaps they removed the actual album stuff and left the outtakes?)
Can I do it at 110bpm without flubbing a single word? When I was in practice. Why do you think 110bpm is fast? 110bpm is a slightly slow rock beat.
But why do I want to hear uninteresting stuff at a high speed? It's monotonous without being trancey. It's like television!
I can listen to Kraftwerk or Fela - why do I want to hear these dull drum loops?
Giant Steps is virtuoso. I'm a good player, I can't do that shit. The amount of work that Coltrane put into making Giant Steps smooth is just inconceivable. Fela was a virtuoso performer, even though he's only really great at singing and has limited skill when he plays keyboard or sax - the force of his ideas overpowers his lack of technique.
Devo, at their height, virtuoso - I have a bootleg where they're playing "Uncontrollable Urge" at an incredible speed (upwards of 160) and then they, out of choice, "freeze" on the break, a sort of crazed paradiddle on drum, bass and guitar - and you can hear the crowd just start screaming at the top of their lungs, because the music is almost intolerably energetic!
Blah blah classical music Ella Fitzgerald Moxie Früvous Indian classical music Balinese gamelan....
Some guy blah-blahing, picking rhymes out of a small bag and putting them into a content-free rap using one of a limited number of rhyme patterns, that's not virtuoso.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:12 AM on April 10, 2009
Surely a hip-hop fan is allowed to voice the opinion that freestyle is usually only impressive because of its difficulty and not because of its results
of course he is, but it's kind of like saying "Art Tatum is only impressive because of how difficult it is to play the way he does." sure, you'll find people that agree. but it's not hard to find plenty of Tatum fans, who are also Monk and Powell fans, who just like the damn music.
let me assure anyone and everyone here (as a person who loves all music except easy listening, and who used to hate rap with a passion) that if you really feel the need to tell everyone how terrible you think rap is it's not because you're so right and we all just don't see it. you're free to like or dislike anything you want, but nobody is ever going to change their opinion of hip hop because of whatever glib comment you can't help but make.
posted by shmegegge at 10:13 AM on April 10, 2009
of course he is, but it's kind of like saying "Art Tatum is only impressive because of how difficult it is to play the way he does." sure, you'll find people that agree. but it's not hard to find plenty of Tatum fans, who are also Monk and Powell fans, who just like the damn music.
let me assure anyone and everyone here (as a person who loves all music except easy listening, and who used to hate rap with a passion) that if you really feel the need to tell everyone how terrible you think rap is it's not because you're so right and we all just don't see it. you're free to like or dislike anything you want, but nobody is ever going to change their opinion of hip hop because of whatever glib comment you can't help but make.
posted by shmegegge at 10:13 AM on April 10, 2009
I can't be in a freestyle thread without putting out Big L's '98 Freestyle (please ignore the obnox radio jocks).
posted by Someone has just shot your horse! at 10:49 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by Someone has just shot your horse! at 10:49 AM on April 10, 2009
If you go back and listen to the first Goodie MOB albums...
Yeah, I had Soul Food and World Party and there's some crazy stuff on there. A lot of blue eyed devil conspiracy stuff, pretty unfortunate since Soul Food is such a good album.
posted by electroboy at 10:49 AM on April 10, 2009
Yeah, I had Soul Food and World Party and there's some crazy stuff on there. A lot of blue eyed devil conspiracy stuff, pretty unfortunate since Soul Food is such a good album.
posted by electroboy at 10:49 AM on April 10, 2009
Yeah, the freestyle on H2O and Pythagorean Theorem from the "appearance" link are the best things I'll hear today. Maybe if Sway hadn't called it the "Pythagorum Theorem," Supernatural might have known what it was :) I really love the call/response freestyling (specific name?) because it's more obviously off-the-top-of-the-dome. The Eminem flow that come after Supernatural in that "appearance" link are great, but I've heard him do them in other places, too-- is it verboten to call that "freestyle"?
Ugh mom, when did you start posting to Metafilter?!?
posted by NolanRyanHatesMatches at 11:00 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ugh mom, when did you start posting to Metafilter?!?
posted by NolanRyanHatesMatches at 11:00 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
blahblahblah is what i hear in the criticism--
lyrics maybe, but baby that aint lyricism.
internal/external rhymes is missin,
plus expansion of grammar into wisdom is the system.
it looks easy busting but it wasnt when you does it cousin--
anymore than sonnets is just 14 and a couplet...
or anymore than jazz sax is just chromatic scales--
pales in comparison to pharoahs telling tales with syncopation
in relation to a funky beat,
repetitive to generate heat
in the deep
memory of ancestry, griots and slams,
haiku contests and symposiums on poetry. Man,
anything is simple in reduction.
but on reflection, youll find a nexus of connections:
funkmaster fluxus, metaphors arise from the cut just like erected
pyramids of rhythm. the voice is drumming
coming from a human throat, off the dome or wrote,
compelling you to quote
with your dancing feet to entrancing memes,
bombing genres buying out the pawnshops clean
to make it new, but you too far out the loop on this--
Go yonder, boy, kicked out the House like lupus.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:04 AM on April 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
lyrics maybe, but baby that aint lyricism.
internal/external rhymes is missin,
plus expansion of grammar into wisdom is the system.
it looks easy busting but it wasnt when you does it cousin--
anymore than sonnets is just 14 and a couplet...
or anymore than jazz sax is just chromatic scales--
pales in comparison to pharoahs telling tales with syncopation
in relation to a funky beat,
repetitive to generate heat
in the deep
memory of ancestry, griots and slams,
haiku contests and symposiums on poetry. Man,
anything is simple in reduction.
but on reflection, youll find a nexus of connections:
funkmaster fluxus, metaphors arise from the cut just like erected
pyramids of rhythm. the voice is drumming
coming from a human throat, off the dome or wrote,
compelling you to quote
with your dancing feet to entrancing memes,
bombing genres buying out the pawnshops clean
to make it new, but you too far out the loop on this--
Go yonder, boy, kicked out the House like lupus.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:04 AM on April 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
Hooooooooooooooooooooly shit. Some of the best freestyling I've ever seen. And lupus, if you think that you can come even close to Supernatural, well, I'm sorry, but you are 100% full of shit. Prove it for real; the doggerel you posted above isn't even close to impressive.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:09 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:09 AM on April 10, 2009
So why is this "virtuoso"? I can make up poetry on the fly at haste, so can tons of other people. There isn't any deep structure nor long structure to the rhymes, and there's a very limited set of rhyming words, many of which simply refer to the genre itself (when I switched off, he was rhyming "Old school" with, I think, "cool".)
This is the musical equivalent of looking at a Jackson Pollock painting and saying "hell, I could dribble paint on a canvas - this isn't so great." The fact that something can be done with some competence by a lot of people doesn't mean tht it can't be virtuoso. Just about anyone can play a I-IV-V blues progression. Does that mean BB King and John Lee Hooker could never be classed as "virtuoso" when playing the blues?
For a musician who has strong opinions about the relative quality of music, you seem to have missed the very basic point that - just like the virtuosity exhibited on Giant Steps is far above the heads of most people who hear it - you simply may not understand virtuosity when you hear it. In this case, there is a lot of rhythmic stuff and internal rhymes going on that isn't immediately apparent. He is also throwing in a lot of information that probably went straight over your head. That beginning part, where he is talking about KRS-One? In a couple of lines he throws in references to his first album (Criminal Minded), his former partner (Scott La Rock) and several keywords (like teacher) that KRS One is known for. But I bet you didn't notice that, did you? Just like I wouldn't notice it if Coltrane dipped into the Mixolydian scale for a few bars and quoted "Cherokee" at length, even if giant neon signs indicating that fact lit up every time i heard it.
posted by googly at 11:16 AM on April 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
http://music.metafilter.com/3262/lupusyonderboy-callback-dis
posted by ShawnStruck at 11:40 AM on April 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by ShawnStruck at 11:40 AM on April 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
lmao
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:46 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:46 AM on April 10, 2009
someone has just shot your hoorse:
Thanks for the link; that was also amazing. I am completely jealous of artists that can spit off the dome like that and bring down fire; it's beyond humbling.
posted by ShawnStruck at 11:47 AM on April 10, 2009
Thanks for the link; that was also amazing. I am completely jealous of artists that can spit off the dome like that and bring down fire; it's beyond humbling.
posted by ShawnStruck at 11:47 AM on April 10, 2009
I agree, googly, the first few rhymes about KRS were really well done, but he seemed to be less able to craft good lines for some of the lesser known names. I think the fact that he had to name every single artist on stage was another big limitation that made this a bit so-so as a freestyle, but yeah, it's an incredibly hard thing to keep up for five minutes, let alone anything further than that.
Freestyle seems like the vocal version of turntablism to me; both hip-hop styles have avid followers but are more about virtuosity than enjoyable musicality, and this is from a long, long time hip hop listener. I can't tell you how many times I tried to listen to the Invisibl Skratch Piklz and got bored, but to someone who knows difficult some of the sounds being made are, it probably just blows their mind.
posted by Big Fat Tycoon at 11:48 AM on April 10, 2009
Freestyle seems like the vocal version of turntablism to me; both hip-hop styles have avid followers but are more about virtuosity than enjoyable musicality, and this is from a long, long time hip hop listener. I can't tell you how many times I tried to listen to the Invisibl Skratch Piklz and got bored, but to someone who knows difficult some of the sounds being made are, it probably just blows their mind.
posted by Big Fat Tycoon at 11:48 AM on April 10, 2009
http://music.metafilter.com/3262/lupusyonderboy-callback-dis
Damn!
posted by electroboy at 12:19 PM on April 10, 2009
but he seemed to be less able to craft good lines for some of the lesser known names.
I had noticed this, too, but then on further reflection I noticed that the weakest lines seemed to be the ones about artists I wasn't familiar with. For instance, he started weak about Murs (natty dreads) but ended strong with a reference to Murs' own lyrics (something about Paid in Full, I forget). Other artists, he also seemed to point out physically first (to demonstrate that it was come up with on the spot) and then make a substantive comment on afterward. at least, when I recognized the artist. The guys I didn't recognize I have no idea, and they seemed weakest. I suspect that might be because my knowledge wasn't deep enough to get it.
posted by shmegegge at 12:33 PM on April 10, 2009
I had noticed this, too, but then on further reflection I noticed that the weakest lines seemed to be the ones about artists I wasn't familiar with. For instance, he started weak about Murs (natty dreads) but ended strong with a reference to Murs' own lyrics (something about Paid in Full, I forget). Other artists, he also seemed to point out physically first (to demonstrate that it was come up with on the spot) and then make a substantive comment on afterward. at least, when I recognized the artist. The guys I didn't recognize I have no idea, and they seemed weakest. I suspect that might be because my knowledge wasn't deep enough to get it.
posted by shmegegge at 12:33 PM on April 10, 2009
lupus what you have to understand is that freestyling, particularly freestyle battling, is not about melody, pitch, harmony, playing the guitar in a nice way or otherwise conforming to your definition of what music is or what music should sound like.
It's a lot more raw than that. It's almost like a sport, showcasing the skills that you have practiced and competing live in front of a crowd. Proving that you are better. Its performing in the same way that Lebron James performs on the court. It's about defeating an opponent. Part of that is getting the support of the crowd. That is why battle rappers"bellow". Because they are being *aggressive*. They are attacking their opponent in order to embarrass them in front of a crowd. They are not concerned with changing the pitch of their voices just for the sake of it. If it won't help them win the battle, why do it?
The point is not to make music for listening to in your headphones, the point is to impress and to destroy. You don't think this shit is hard, but I listened to some of your "hip-hop" and the rapping is absolute shit. Embarrassingly bad. I would pay good money to watch you battle Supernat or Juice.
posted by AceRock at 12:47 PM on April 10, 2009
It's a lot more raw than that. It's almost like a sport, showcasing the skills that you have practiced and competing live in front of a crowd. Proving that you are better. Its performing in the same way that Lebron James performs on the court. It's about defeating an opponent. Part of that is getting the support of the crowd. That is why battle rappers"bellow". Because they are being *aggressive*. They are attacking their opponent in order to embarrass them in front of a crowd. They are not concerned with changing the pitch of their voices just for the sake of it. If it won't help them win the battle, why do it?
The point is not to make music for listening to in your headphones, the point is to impress and to destroy. You don't think this shit is hard, but I listened to some of your "hip-hop" and the rapping is absolute shit. Embarrassingly bad. I would pay good money to watch you battle Supernat or Juice.
posted by AceRock at 12:47 PM on April 10, 2009
That said, battling and freestyling are only expressions of hip-hop. The purpose of them is quite narrow when compared to other forms of rapping. You want to hear changes in pitch used to good effect? Listen to some Laytrx. You want to hear complex rhyme patterns? Listen to some Organized Konfusion. You want sophisticated or profound lyrical content? Try some Common Sense or Outkast (particularly Andre). I'm pretty sure these artists have been recommended to you before. If you don't like it, that's fine, but you can't say that all rappers do is bellow into a microphone.
posted by AceRock at 12:55 PM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by AceRock at 12:55 PM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
shmegegge, I'd disagree. The majority of times he mentions people, like Alchemist, Chali 2na, RZA and Large Professor he just names them, with maybe a quick association like naming J5 in the case of Chali or repeating a Large Pro rhyme. I don't think there was anything near the detail as he had with KRS, but that could just be because he realized how long it would take to get through the list if he had to put that much effort in? I think he was having trouble though, because he kept leaning on the "on the mic" phrase in the middle section. Even with Raekwon, he mentions "Cuban Linx" and that's about it. So that's why I feel he lost steam.
posted by Big Fat Tycoon at 2:22 PM on April 10, 2009
posted by Big Fat Tycoon at 2:22 PM on April 10, 2009
I agree with you, BFT. He didn't keep up the highest level throughout the whole 8 minutes. Also, like you, I can appreciate virtuosity without actually enjoying it. I can watch that clip and say to myself "damn he has some skills," but I'd never listen to it on its own just for fun. Sometimes the best artists are the ones who aren't trying to prove how badass they are with every single note/lyric.
posted by googly at 4:46 PM on April 10, 2009
posted by googly at 4:46 PM on April 10, 2009
Some guy blah-blahing, picking rhymes out of a small bag and putting them into a content-free rap using one of a limited number of rhyme patterns, that's not virtuoso.
Nice post.
I'm good at freestyling to whatever song is on the radio and turning it into rhymes about me rooting your mother. I had a friend who did it and initially I'm "damn this guy is clever" but it's really just memory and practice.
There was a bit in there where he sort of said "we need to get his name to rhyme..." and he was really just stalling and adding a sentence so he could come up with a rhyming key word, it was pretty obvious.
I couldn't do what he did at that seed, but I think I fairly much know the rules and could get very good at it with practice.
I coulda bin a contender!!
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:17 PM on April 10, 2009
Nice post.
I'm good at freestyling to whatever song is on the radio and turning it into rhymes about me rooting your mother. I had a friend who did it and initially I'm "damn this guy is clever" but it's really just memory and practice.
There was a bit in there where he sort of said "we need to get his name to rhyme..." and he was really just stalling and adding a sentence so he could come up with a rhyming key word, it was pretty obvious.
I couldn't do what he did at that seed, but I think I fairly much know the rules and could get very good at it with practice.
I coulda bin a contender!!
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:17 PM on April 10, 2009
speed
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:21 PM on April 10, 2009
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:21 PM on April 10, 2009
This is thoroughly entertaining. I can only hope lupus_yonderboy is recording an answer response.
posted by cashman at 9:11 PM on April 10, 2009
posted by cashman at 9:11 PM on April 10, 2009
Supernat often closes his shows by rapping about objects people hand him from the crowd.
Surely he has some stock stuff set up for his most common items (lighters, keys, etc.), but I became a true believer when I saw him play the Grind at Clark University. I had a squishy nose keychain that devoted almost a full minute to. I'm guessing he doesn't get that one every day but he handled it proper.
posted by rollbiz at 6:26 PM on April 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
Surely he has some stock stuff set up for his most common items (lighters, keys, etc.), but I became a true believer when I saw him play the Grind at Clark University. I had a squishy nose keychain that devoted almost a full minute to. I'm guessing he doesn't get that one every day but he handled it proper.
posted by rollbiz at 6:26 PM on April 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, a friend of mine booked the show and was responsible for picking Supernatural up and driving him the 45 or so minutes from Logan airport out to Worcester. He couldn't say enough about how genuinely nice he was. 'Nat said, not surprisingly, that he reads the dictionary daily.
posted by rollbiz at 6:33 PM on April 11, 2009
posted by rollbiz at 6:33 PM on April 11, 2009
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
On the other hand, and I don't know if it was really freestyle or not, but this CeeLo bizness from a while back really knocked me sideways.
posted by unSane at 10:55 PM on April 9, 2009