How Mattel Lost The Disney Princesses
December 31, 2015 8:38 AM Subscribe
The only Hasbro Princess doll that does not actively freak me out is Mulan. The rest are giant-headed weirdy-looking things.
posted by Kitteh at 8:47 AM on December 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:47 AM on December 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
I was looking for Star Wars figures *cough*for myself*cough*, specifically Poe Dameron, but they look sorta terrible. I had noticed they were Hasbro - are they known for their terrible looking figures?
posted by littlesq at 8:51 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by littlesq at 8:51 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Huh, I get the big head thing but they seem to have more personality than the Mattel models because they're more cartoony?
posted by The Whelk at 8:51 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 8:51 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Huh, I get the big head thing but they seem to have more personality than the Mattel models because they're more cartoony?
Not just that they're more "cartoony", but that they have their own distinct molds. The Mattel dolls were basically reconfigured Barbies.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:54 AM on December 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
Not just that they're more "cartoony", but that they have their own distinct molds. The Mattel dolls were basically reconfigured Barbies.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:54 AM on December 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
Are they still made from dried onion meal?
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:56 AM on December 31, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:56 AM on December 31, 2015 [12 favorites]
Some of my favorite pull quotes from the article:
posted by jillithd at 9:06 AM on December 31, 2015 [10 favorites]
Hasbro researchers found that girls—young girls, particularly—weren’t nearly as into clothes and boys and happily-ever-after as they thought. “What we found was that girls loved the idea of a brand that embraced friendship and kindness,” Goldner says.This is interesting to me. Young girls like relationships and friendships amongst people, not the catty, resource-grabbing (boys! clothes!) that many seem to portray them as. I had Barbies and My Little Ponies growing up. I didn't like the Barbies so much, as their legs wouldn't bend all the way at the knees so they had to sit way too far away from their tables when eating. I never had a Ken doll, but my Jem doll was taller than the Barbies, so she was my "Ken". I actually preferred playing with My Little Ponies using the Barbie furniture, and we mostly played "families" with moms, dads, kids, and friends. Not a lot of shopping or dating going on.
Both Hasbro and Disney say they plan to highlight the princesses’ bravery and skills in future advertising, and to give the nonwhite princesses more shelf space. “A 4-year-old girl doesn’t realize how the world she lives in is different from 10 or 15 years ago, but her parents do,” says Frascotti. And parents, he points out, are the ones who buy the toys.This next one just makes me feel dirty. I know businesses gotta make a buck (and this IS Bloomburg Business coverage), but these are children learning and growing, here.
“The phase when little girls play dress-up is a brief moment in time. But it’s a brief moment in time when they spend a lot of money.”Does anyone else hear that KA-CHING sound of a register after reading that line? Maybe dollar signs popping out of their eye balls?
posted by jillithd at 9:06 AM on December 31, 2015 [10 favorites]
I get the big head thing
I really don't. What human has a head the same length as their torso? It's weird looking. The Snow White doll will haunt my dreams tonight. Also it says at one point that a problem with the Mattel dolls were that they were too passive, but these ones are all in the exact same straight-armed straight-legged stance and apparently their limbs are even stiffer. I'm not seeing how they're any less passive now, they just made them look more gormless or something. (But I will focus-group them with my Disney Princess-loving nieces and report back. What the hell do I know?)
posted by billiebee at 9:06 AM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
I really don't. What human has a head the same length as their torso? It's weird looking. The Snow White doll will haunt my dreams tonight. Also it says at one point that a problem with the Mattel dolls were that they were too passive, but these ones are all in the exact same straight-armed straight-legged stance and apparently their limbs are even stiffer. I'm not seeing how they're any less passive now, they just made them look more gormless or something. (But I will focus-group them with my Disney Princess-loving nieces and report back. What the hell do I know?)
posted by billiebee at 9:06 AM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
As a child who desperately wanted a dark-haired doll and the only option was a funky-looking Belle before Mattel started their deal with Disney, reconfigured Barbies is better because then they can wear Barbie's clothes (and vice-versa) and you can make them kiss Ken (or Barbie) without it looking weird. I mean these dolls come up to Barbie's waist and their heads are probably bigger than her waist - how are they supposed to have proper doll orgies looking like that?
Also, um, what is Iron Man doing to Belle?
posted by bgal81 at 9:08 AM on December 31, 2015 [18 favorites]
Also, um, what is Iron Man doing to Belle?
posted by bgal81 at 9:08 AM on December 31, 2015 [18 favorites]
Jem and the Holograms, released in October, has yet to earn back its $5 million budget.
There is no justice in this world.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:12 AM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
There is no justice in this world.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:12 AM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's a revolution in the Princess Industrial Complex!
I actually wish Studio Ghibli was better at merchandising. I would buy and buy for my grand-nieces.
posted by Bee'sWing at 9:16 AM on December 31, 2015 [10 favorites]
I actually wish Studio Ghibli was better at merchandising. I would buy and buy for my grand-nieces.
posted by Bee'sWing at 9:16 AM on December 31, 2015 [10 favorites]
I was looking for Star Wars figures *cough*for myself*cough*, specifically Poe Dameron, but they look sorta terrible. I had noticed they were Hasbro - are they known for their terrible looking figures?
It is not much of a likeness, to be sure, and supported by some pretty lackadaisical copywriting:
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:16 AM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
It is not much of a likeness, to be sure, and supported by some pretty lackadaisical copywriting:
Detailed 6-inch figure looks like Poe Dameron from Star Wars: The Force AwakensTwo statements and two demands, and one of the statements is manifestly incorrect. Also, I am not sure if we are counting the two extra hands as accessories, but TFA is the first Star War in a long time that lacks a severed hand.
Expand and enhance Star Wars collections
Play with the 4 included accessories
Includes figure and 4 accessories.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:16 AM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
and something grumbly about how toy companies reinforce the gender binary and parents are pressured by marketing to kids to buy into the enforcement and more grumbling and yadda yadda grumble grumble. and why are those girl's boxes pink when the boy's are black in that one diagram grumble more yeah.
/me closes that tab for relief.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:17 AM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
/me closes that tab for relief.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:17 AM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
There is no justice in this world.
Justice arrived in the form of the freakin' awesome comic book IDW is putting out.
Relevant to the article at hand, I get why Mattel's princess dolls were unsatisfactory, but Hasbro's take isn't any better - it's just bad in different ways. The sculpts are weird-looking and don't match the proportions or head shapes from the actual movies they're supposed to be based on.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:18 AM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
Justice arrived in the form of the freakin' awesome comic book IDW is putting out.
Relevant to the article at hand, I get why Mattel's princess dolls were unsatisfactory, but Hasbro's take isn't any better - it's just bad in different ways. The sculpts are weird-looking and don't match the proportions or head shapes from the actual movies they're supposed to be based on.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:18 AM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also, um, what is Iron Man doing to Belle?
(looks at cover)
...apparently, something not discussed in polite company.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:19 AM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
(looks at cover)
...apparently, something not discussed in polite company.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:19 AM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
What human has a head the same length as their torso?
Big-headed cartoons are more than just a drawing style choice. There are strong practical reasons to draw characters that way. If you want to convey emotion, you make the head large and emphasize the eyes, eyebrows, and mouth. The nose and ears aren't important, so make then small and indistinct.
Then if you mold a doll after that cartoon, you get something that looks like the Hasbro princesses. Barbie doesn't look like that because she didn't come from a cartoon.
It's really not that weird.
posted by ryanrs at 9:20 AM on December 31, 2015 [20 favorites]
Big-headed cartoons are more than just a drawing style choice. There are strong practical reasons to draw characters that way. If you want to convey emotion, you make the head large and emphasize the eyes, eyebrows, and mouth. The nose and ears aren't important, so make then small and indistinct.
Then if you mold a doll after that cartoon, you get something that looks like the Hasbro princesses. Barbie doesn't look like that because she didn't come from a cartoon.
It's really not that weird.
posted by ryanrs at 9:20 AM on December 31, 2015 [20 favorites]
“A 4-year-old girl doesn’t realize how the world she lives in is different from 10 or 15 years ago, but her parents do,” says Frascotti. And parents, he points out, are the ones who buy the toys.
I think this is actually backwards. Most kids I've met don't mind having nonwhite toys, but I've seen (as a toy store employee) many parents freak out about it.
posted by drezdn at 9:20 AM on December 31, 2015 [14 favorites]
I think this is actually backwards. Most kids I've met don't mind having nonwhite toys, but I've seen (as a toy store employee) many parents freak out about it.
posted by drezdn at 9:20 AM on December 31, 2015 [14 favorites]
and why are those girl's boxes pink when the boy's are black in that one diagram grumble more yeah.
I didn't recognize that! Huh. I thought the pink boxes stood for something like what was changing, but didn't mentally connect them to girls vs boys toys.
And yeah, I had to mentally gloss over a lot of the other stuff in the article that would make my eye twitch too much as a parent of a young child.
posted by jillithd at 9:23 AM on December 31, 2015
I didn't recognize that! Huh. I thought the pink boxes stood for something like what was changing, but didn't mentally connect them to girls vs boys toys.
And yeah, I had to mentally gloss over a lot of the other stuff in the article that would make my eye twitch too much as a parent of a young child.
posted by jillithd at 9:23 AM on December 31, 2015
I was looking for Star Wars figures *cough*for myself*cough*, specifically Poe Dameron, but they look sorta terrible.
Honestly, if you're an adult collector and want figures, you need to look abroad. If you're on a relative budget, S.H. FiguArts figurines for TFA are what you are looking for. On the other hand, if you have, say, $500 burning a hole in your pocket, let me tell you about a little company called Hot Toys...
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:24 AM on December 31, 2015 [5 favorites]
Honestly, if you're an adult collector and want figures, you need to look abroad. If you're on a relative budget, S.H. FiguArts figurines for TFA are what you are looking for. On the other hand, if you have, say, $500 burning a hole in your pocket, let me tell you about a little company called Hot Toys...
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:24 AM on December 31, 2015 [5 favorites]
Then if you mold a doll after that cartoon, you get something that looks like the Hasbro princesses. Barbie doesn't look like that because she didn't come from a cartoon.
But the Disney "princess" movies don't use that style. Snow White, for instance, is 5.5 heads tall, which is very close to her Mattel proportions. The Hasbro figure is, by my count, almost but not quite 4.5, which is a pretty jarring difference side by side.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:26 AM on December 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
But the Disney "princess" movies don't use that style. Snow White, for instance, is 5.5 heads tall, which is very close to her Mattel proportions. The Hasbro figure is, by my count, almost but not quite 4.5, which is a pretty jarring difference side by side.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:26 AM on December 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
The Hasbro dolls are more anime-style and softer-limbed to me. The Mattel dolls always seem like fashion illustrations, angular and exact. I was surprised how thin and pointy Barbies look compared to my daughter's other dolls, even the knock-offs, which are much more round-limbed with big eyes and soft cheeks.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 9:26 AM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 9:26 AM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
I saw this article a few days ago and found it really interesting; I'm glad to see it here! I thought it was an interesting dissection of the Disney Princess business without being all kneejerk "lol princessy girl things sux."
Weirdly, I'm a little worried about the franchise's move to Hasbro for kind of shallow, kind of practical reasons:
their hair isn’t as easily brushable as Barbie’s
As a former girly-girl (who also frequently "borrowed" her brother's Transformers), I consider good-quality hair SUPER IMPORTANT in my dolls. Barbie, sociological issues aside, is a well-made doll, with great, thick, firmly-rooted hair. Off-brand Barbies usually had pretty crap hair, with bald spots if you styled it wrong. I have a few My Little Ponies from the past five years, and their hair is...not great. It's sparse, sticks up kind of funny, and there are several loose strands. And it's pretty disappointing, because the original '80s ponies had glorious hair. The hair was the best part! I don't think I would have asked for My Little Ponies every Christmas for six years if they had crap hair.
I have about zero interest in purchasing any Disney Princess product, but man I hope Hasbro doesn't cheap out on their hair.
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:27 AM on December 31, 2015 [30 favorites]
Weirdly, I'm a little worried about the franchise's move to Hasbro for kind of shallow, kind of practical reasons:
their hair isn’t as easily brushable as Barbie’s
As a former girly-girl (who also frequently "borrowed" her brother's Transformers), I consider good-quality hair SUPER IMPORTANT in my dolls. Barbie, sociological issues aside, is a well-made doll, with great, thick, firmly-rooted hair. Off-brand Barbies usually had pretty crap hair, with bald spots if you styled it wrong. I have a few My Little Ponies from the past five years, and their hair is...not great. It's sparse, sticks up kind of funny, and there are several loose strands. And it's pretty disappointing, because the original '80s ponies had glorious hair. The hair was the best part! I don't think I would have asked for My Little Ponies every Christmas for six years if they had crap hair.
I have about zero interest in purchasing any Disney Princess product, but man I hope Hasbro doesn't cheap out on their hair.
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:27 AM on December 31, 2015 [30 favorites]
Also, I find it amusing that it's Elsa that hooks up with the Jewish trucker in the BusinessWeek cover.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:28 AM on December 31, 2015
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:28 AM on December 31, 2015
I've seen some really bone-headed business moves and read about other really bad business decisions, but wow, for sheer incompetence Mattel's actions in this case really take the cake. What did the company executives expect was going to happen when they decided to launch their own princess line? Dumb, dumb, dumb.
I just feel bad for all the kids and parents who are now going to have to deal with old dolls and accessories that no longer work with the new forms and shapes. There is going to be a lot of anguish and a lot of crying in a lot of households.
posted by sardonyx at 9:29 AM on December 31, 2015 [15 favorites]
I just feel bad for all the kids and parents who are now going to have to deal with old dolls and accessories that no longer work with the new forms and shapes. There is going to be a lot of anguish and a lot of crying in a lot of households.
posted by sardonyx at 9:29 AM on December 31, 2015 [15 favorites]
Gotta agree, I hate myself for thinking it but the Mattel versions are just, well, prettier. Or is it just that the Hasbro ones are so freakishly proportioned that I can't see their true cuteness?
I say this as someone who still doesn't get the appeal of Bratz
posted by Mchelly at 9:32 AM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
I say this as someone who still doesn't get the appeal of Bratz
posted by Mchelly at 9:32 AM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
I just feel bad for all the kids and parents who are now going to have to deal with old dolls and accessories that no longer work with the new forms and shapes.
Eh, it'll prepare them for those same compatibility problems later on when they get a smartphone.
posted by ryanrs at 9:32 AM on December 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
Eh, it'll prepare them for those same compatibility problems later on when they get a smartphone.
posted by ryanrs at 9:32 AM on December 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
Annika Cicada: "and something grumbly about how toy companies reinforce the gender binary and parents are pressured by marketing to kids to buy into the enforcement and more grumbling and yadda yadda grumble grumble. and why are those girl's boxes pink when the boy's are black in that one diagram grumble more yeah.
/me closes that tab for relief."
Oh, good. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who ragequit the article upon getting to that chart.
Also, Hot Wheels is nearly a billion dollar business? Jesus.
posted by schmod at 9:33 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
/me closes that tab for relief."
Oh, good. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who ragequit the article upon getting to that chart.
Also, Hot Wheels is nearly a billion dollar business? Jesus.
posted by schmod at 9:33 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also a big shout-out to whichever MeFite it was who made me aware of this awesome Eowyn action figure, who is now a major player in my 7-year-old son's pooptime action figure wars.
posted by Mchelly at 9:34 AM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 9:34 AM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
The Hasbro ones look like dollar store knockoffs. Never mind the head-to-body proportions; they can't even get faces right. Eyes are not that high.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:36 AM on December 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 9:36 AM on December 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
I have a few My Little Ponies from the past five years, and their hair is...not great. It's sparse, sticks up kind of funny, and there are several loose strands. And it's pretty disappointing, because the original '80s ponies had glorious hair. The hair was the best part! I don't think I would have asked for My Little Ponies every Christmas for six years if they had crap hair.
I really miss eighties My Little Ponies. I had a...well, a reasonable number, and while I am perfectly ready to admit that MLP: Friendship is Magic is an excellent program and far exceeds any of the toy-related shows of my youth, I just do not care for the new toys.
(Oh hey, a funny anecdote: some years ago, before MLP:FiM was even a gleam in the eye of a marketeer, the four-year-old daughter of a friend got some old My Little Ponies for her birthday, because hey, brushable hair, ponies, why not? Her mother, who remembered the originals, walked over to her as she was playing and said, "Oh wow, My Little Ponies"....and her daughter replied, "These aren't your little ponies!!!!")
posted by Frowner at 9:41 AM on December 31, 2015 [26 favorites]
I really miss eighties My Little Ponies. I had a...well, a reasonable number, and while I am perfectly ready to admit that MLP: Friendship is Magic is an excellent program and far exceeds any of the toy-related shows of my youth, I just do not care for the new toys.
(Oh hey, a funny anecdote: some years ago, before MLP:FiM was even a gleam in the eye of a marketeer, the four-year-old daughter of a friend got some old My Little Ponies for her birthday, because hey, brushable hair, ponies, why not? Her mother, who remembered the originals, walked over to her as she was playing and said, "Oh wow, My Little Ponies"....and her daughter replied, "These aren't your little ponies!!!!")
posted by Frowner at 9:41 AM on December 31, 2015 [26 favorites]
are they known for their terrible looking figures?
They are now. They use some weird soft plastic instead of the harder plastics used in GI Joe/Star Wars/He-Man of the 80s. The biggest downside is that the hands cannot hold objects properly anymore, things fall out real easily instead of "clipping" in like they used to. There's more details in the moulds, but the paint applied afterwards seems to ignore those details. It's telling that the Poe figure you linked to comes with two sets of hands, somebody obviously wasn't happy with the design and this seems to have been the compromise.
posted by furtive at 9:56 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
They are now. They use some weird soft plastic instead of the harder plastics used in GI Joe/Star Wars/He-Man of the 80s. The biggest downside is that the hands cannot hold objects properly anymore, things fall out real easily instead of "clipping" in like they used to. There's more details in the moulds, but the paint applied afterwards seems to ignore those details. It's telling that the Poe figure you linked to comes with two sets of hands, somebody obviously wasn't happy with the design and this seems to have been the compromise.
posted by furtive at 9:56 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's telling that the Poe figure you linked to comes with two sets of hands, somebody obviously wasn't happy with the design and this seems to have been the compromise.
That's pretty standard with fully-articulated figures, actually.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:58 AM on December 31, 2015
That's pretty standard with fully-articulated figures, actually.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:58 AM on December 31, 2015
It's telling that the Poe figure you linked to comes with two sets of hands, somebody obviously wasn't happy with the design and this seems to have been the compromise.
Actually, a lot of high end figurines come with multiple hands in order to improve fidelity to onscreen appearance. There's a reason Revoltech figurines come with little boxes to hold everything.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:00 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Actually, a lot of high end figurines come with multiple hands in order to improve fidelity to onscreen appearance. There's a reason Revoltech figurines come with little boxes to hold everything.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:00 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, Hot Wheels is nearly a billion dollar business? Jesus.
There is no limit on the number of Hot Wheels models that can be sold, and kids who like Hot Wheels (or Matchbox) will buy TONS of them (or their parents will, at any rate).
posted by enjoymoreradio at 10:08 AM on December 31, 2015
There is no limit on the number of Hot Wheels models that can be sold, and kids who like Hot Wheels (or Matchbox) will buy TONS of them (or their parents will, at any rate).
posted by enjoymoreradio at 10:08 AM on December 31, 2015
The Mattel versions are a little bland facial features wise, but the loss in ornate fabric from Mattel to Hasbro is downright tragic. All of the Hasbro princesses just have "looks like it would fit in well at a fusion asian restaurant wall print" gradations just in different colors on their dresses.
posted by maykasahara at 10:12 AM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by maykasahara at 10:12 AM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
The thing about the Hasbro dolls is that the faces are just so huge and prominent, which makes it really hard to accommodate the differences in the Disney art styles over the years. So the Mulan doll looks great, because Mulan is drawn with a big head and large eyes, but Cinderella's proportions are way different and so the big-faced Cinderella doll is terrifying. In the Disney Princess artwork, the individual princesses are drawn in a way that skooshes them slightly closer together in style, but the focus is more on the big swoopy hair and big sparkly candy-colored dresses anyway. The Mattel dolls, with their smaller, slightly generic-looking faces, have a similar effect.
I wonder if there are any Disney Princesses Drawn in the Style of Other Disney Princesses out there in internet-land.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:16 AM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
I wonder if there are any Disney Princesses Drawn in the Style of Other Disney Princesses out there in internet-land.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:16 AM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
I was looking for Star Wars figures *cough*for myself*cough*, specifically Poe Dameron, but they look sorta terrible.
It's not a bad likeness if Poe was played by Benicio del Toro instead of Oscar Isaac.
As for the princesses, I just find them all very off-model. It's a pity that they have had their art syles made blander for the Princess series artwork, but the uniformity of the dolls makes them even worse. Snow White has a round face and plump arms, Aurora and Pocahontas are lean and angular, and so on.
On preview, what Metroid Baby says.
posted by sukeban at 10:18 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's not a bad likeness if Poe was played by Benicio del Toro instead of Oscar Isaac.
As for the princesses, I just find them all very off-model. It's a pity that they have had their art syles made blander for the Princess series artwork, but the uniformity of the dolls makes them even worse. Snow White has a round face and plump arms, Aurora and Pocahontas are lean and angular, and so on.
On preview, what Metroid Baby says.
posted by sukeban at 10:18 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
The funniest thing ever pointed out to me about the Disney princesses is this -- the princesses are not friends.
Each princess is a princess. They're all special. If they're friends with each other, that can imply hierarchy (e.g. a princess pouring tea for another, a princess tossing a ball to another). It's forbidden to show a princess in any situation that makes them appear to be in a lesser role than any other.
So, go out and look at official illustrations and merch. The princesses don't interact with each other. The princesses don't appear as characters in each other's stories. The princesses don't even look at each other.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:30 AM on December 31, 2015 [29 favorites]
Each princess is a princess. They're all special. If they're friends with each other, that can imply hierarchy (e.g. a princess pouring tea for another, a princess tossing a ball to another). It's forbidden to show a princess in any situation that makes them appear to be in a lesser role than any other.
So, go out and look at official illustrations and merch. The princesses don't interact with each other. The princesses don't appear as characters in each other's stories. The princesses don't even look at each other.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:30 AM on December 31, 2015 [29 favorites]
I was looking for Star Wars figures *cough*for myself*cough*, specifically Poe Dameron, but they look sorta terrible.
From the first review: "The brilliant part of this figure though is that you can easily hide the head sculpt under the removable flight helmet."
posted by effbot at 10:32 AM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
From the first review: "The brilliant part of this figure though is that you can easily hide the head sculpt under the removable flight helmet."
posted by effbot at 10:32 AM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
@Cool Papa Bell - From the article: "...Disney had never before sold or marketed merchandise picturing princesses from different movies together. “The prevailing wisdom at the studio was that somehow having the princesses gang together would destroy their individual mythology and therefore the value of their films,” says Mooney. To guard against this, Disney invented marketing rules: The princesses couldn’t look at each other. Their dresses had to be different colors. Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella both wore blue, so Sleeping Beauty, marketed under her first name, Aurora, changed into bubble-gum pink."
posted by Seboshin at 10:38 AM on December 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Seboshin at 10:38 AM on December 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
The best part about the princesses not being friends is Disney invented a whole line of Princess Pets out of whole cloth, to allow some level of indirect interaction between princesses.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 10:54 AM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 10:54 AM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
The funniest thing ever pointed out to me about the Disney princesses is this -- the princesses are not friends.
But a few of them do have female buddies which you think Disney/Hasbro would capitalize on and release them together for that extra $$$. Anna and Elsa, Tiana and Charlotte, Pocahontas and Nakoma, Ariel and her 27 sisters.
posted by bgal81 at 10:57 AM on December 31, 2015
But a few of them do have female buddies which you think Disney/Hasbro would capitalize on and release them together for that extra $$$. Anna and Elsa, Tiana and Charlotte, Pocahontas and Nakoma, Ariel and her 27 sisters.
posted by bgal81 at 10:57 AM on December 31, 2015
But a few of them do have female buddies
Those female buddies are all subservient to the princesses. Charlotte's a spoiled dolt that speaks in baby talk. Nakoma is too conservative to have any adventure. Ariel's sisters are not as special as she is, despite being the youngest -- it's even in the lyrics, that the first time we're ever meeting them, all six are stepping aside for the magic "seventh sister" whose voice is "like a bell."
It doesn't compute if you flip the gender, where the secondary male character in a story is often the most interesting character, period. Imagine Han Solo being portrayed as a loser doofus in comparison to the perfect Luke Skywalker.
Riff on this even further -- Mulan had no secondary female characters to speak of. So, what'd we get? Captain Li Shang, Ling, Yao and Chien Po are all fun, interesting, and in the end, shown to be competent soldiers with unique skills.
Oh, and there's Eddie Murphy.
Eddie. Murphy.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:11 AM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Those female buddies are all subservient to the princesses. Charlotte's a spoiled dolt that speaks in baby talk. Nakoma is too conservative to have any adventure. Ariel's sisters are not as special as she is, despite being the youngest -- it's even in the lyrics, that the first time we're ever meeting them, all six are stepping aside for the magic "seventh sister" whose voice is "like a bell."
It doesn't compute if you flip the gender, where the secondary male character in a story is often the most interesting character, period. Imagine Han Solo being portrayed as a loser doofus in comparison to the perfect Luke Skywalker.
Riff on this even further -- Mulan had no secondary female characters to speak of. So, what'd we get? Captain Li Shang, Ling, Yao and Chien Po are all fun, interesting, and in the end, shown to be competent soldiers with unique skills.
Oh, and there's Eddie Murphy.
Eddie. Murphy.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:11 AM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Today I learned Disney does not own Mattel. I thought I read once it was a wholly owned subsidiary and have presumed for years that a True Fact. I am dumb. Disney's market cap is 175.32B and Mattel's is 9.32B so I suppose it is an easy mistake to make.
posted by bukvich at 11:13 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by bukvich at 11:13 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Those female buddies are all subservient to the princesses. Charlotte's a spoiled dolt that speaks in baby talk. Nakoma is too conservative to have any adventure.
Charlotte is hilarious and Nakoma was too smart for John Smith's white nonsense.
posted by bgal81 at 11:15 AM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Charlotte is hilarious and Nakoma was too smart for John Smith's white nonsense.
posted by bgal81 at 11:15 AM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ever After High. Unless you’re a girl under 10—or the parent of one—you’ve probably never heard of them. Designed to be the teen children of Cinderella, Snow White, Little Red Riding Hood, and other characters, they wear platform shoes, bodices, and short, sometimes see-through skirts: tarted-up versions of Disney’s Princesses. Stephen Sumner, a former Barbie designer now at Hasbro, did early sketches of the line.
Never mind the fact that creating a rival "princesses" line was a terrible business decision, anyone else skeeved out by the idea of a fully-grown man drawing sketches of teenage girls in platform shoes and see through skirts to market dolls to little girls?
posted by billiebee at 11:15 AM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
Never mind the fact that creating a rival "princesses" line was a terrible business decision, anyone else skeeved out by the idea of a fully-grown man drawing sketches of teenage girls in platform shoes and see through skirts to market dolls to little girls?
posted by billiebee at 11:15 AM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
So, go out and look at official illustrations and merch. The princesses don't interact with each other. The princesses don't appear as characters in each other's stories. The princesses don't even look at each other.
That's because if they DID interact, you'd probably end up with something like THIS.
posted by happyroach at 11:41 AM on December 31, 2015 [5 favorites]
That's because if they DID interact, you'd probably end up with something like THIS.
posted by happyroach at 11:41 AM on December 31, 2015 [5 favorites]
The "no interaction between film worlds" rule predates the line, though - it was one of the few hard rules Disney gave Square for Kingdom Hearts.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:58 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:58 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would respectfully suggest that the Princess Day episode of Adventure Time is required viewing for anyone with a child going through a Disney Princess stage, as it illustrates the dangers of getting princesses in the same room.
However, if your child must leave more than one princess together, then make sure he or she leaves Mulan in charge.
posted by Dr. Zira at 12:03 PM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
However, if your child must leave more than one princess together, then make sure he or she leaves Mulan in charge.
posted by Dr. Zira at 12:03 PM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Game of Thrones illustrates the danger of too much princess-princess interaction. Competing hierarchies are hell.
OTOH, a GoT/Disney Princesses crossover does have some attractions. I guess when these various toy lines evolve enough embedded AI and comms, we may yet see serious fireworks. "The First Pre-Teen War devastated large tracts of central USA and the Pacific Rim, and saw the rise of the Barbie-rian Empire which was to leave such an indelible mark on the late 21st century on Terra..."
posted by Devonian at 12:14 PM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
OTOH, a GoT/Disney Princesses crossover does have some attractions. I guess when these various toy lines evolve enough embedded AI and comms, we may yet see serious fireworks. "The First Pre-Teen War devastated large tracts of central USA and the Pacific Rim, and saw the rise of the Barbie-rian Empire which was to leave such an indelible mark on the late 21st century on Terra..."
posted by Devonian at 12:14 PM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
I also agree that Mulan is the only non-terrifying Hasbro doll (and the only one better than Mattel's). Snow White is the worst; Cinderella comes close.
Don't forget the other year's great Yuletide treat, Four Things that Weren't Adequately Covered in Mulan's R.A. Training.
posted by jeather at 12:23 PM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
Don't forget the other year's great Yuletide treat, Four Things that Weren't Adequately Covered in Mulan's R.A. Training.
posted by jeather at 12:23 PM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's because if they DID interact, you'd probably end up with something like THIS.
Obligatory link to Amy Mebberson's Pocket Princesses.
posted by sukeban at 12:43 PM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Obligatory link to Amy Mebberson's Pocket Princesses.
posted by sukeban at 12:43 PM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
In the chart, the pink is girls' toy lines, but the black is "other," encompassing boys' toy lines, family lines (board games), non-gendered toys, outdoor toys, etc. It's not black for boys; its black for "not the important part of this chart."
(Pink can take a hike in general, tho.)
Rapunzel and Finn go to Elsa's coronation, so SOMETIMES the princesses interact ...
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:47 PM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
(Pink can take a hike in general, tho.)
Rapunzel and Finn go to Elsa's coronation, so SOMETIMES the princesses interact ...
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:47 PM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think this is actually backwards. Most kids I've met don't mind having nonwhite toys, but I've seen (as a toy store employee) many parents freak out about it.
As a former girly-girl (who also frequently "borrowed" her brother's Transformers), I consider good-quality hair SUPER IMPORTANT in my dolls.
I was working in a toy store when the Spice Girl dolls were released and little girls would flock to the Scary Spice dolls mostly due to her awesome hair. It was a regular source of amusement to the staff to watch white parents try to re-direct their children (with typically no success whatsoever) to the Caucasian members of the band. (With the exception of Sporty Spice's doll which basically looked like a rat in a sports bra. But kudos to the girls who latched onto the most talented singer in the group.)
posted by dances with hamsters at 12:47 PM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
As a former girly-girl (who also frequently "borrowed" her brother's Transformers), I consider good-quality hair SUPER IMPORTANT in my dolls.
I was working in a toy store when the Spice Girl dolls were released and little girls would flock to the Scary Spice dolls mostly due to her awesome hair. It was a regular source of amusement to the staff to watch white parents try to re-direct their children (with typically no success whatsoever) to the Caucasian members of the band. (With the exception of Sporty Spice's doll which basically looked like a rat in a sports bra. But kudos to the girls who latched onto the most talented singer in the group.)
posted by dances with hamsters at 12:47 PM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
I ran the photos by the expert, my 7 yo daughter. She prefers the Hasbro Mulan and Snow White, but the Mattel Jasmine and Cinderella. It's a wash.
posted by Cuke at 1:04 PM on December 31, 2015
posted by Cuke at 1:04 PM on December 31, 2015
Game of Thrones illustrates the danger of too much princess-princess interaction. Competing hierarchies are hell.
But Celestia, Luna, Cadance and Twilight Sparkle all get along fine...
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:04 PM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
But Celestia, Luna, Cadance and Twilight Sparkle all get along fine...
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:04 PM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
I haaaaaated Barbie as a kid. I disliked overtly 'girly' things. I remember crying one christmas when I received a Barbie. I found My Little Pony and She-Ra acceptable, however.
Even though they suffer from the platform shoe/miniskirt syndrome, if I was a little girl now I would be all about the Monster High Dolls.
posted by Windigo at 2:03 PM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
Even though they suffer from the platform shoe/miniskirt syndrome, if I was a little girl now I would be all about the Monster High Dolls.
posted by Windigo at 2:03 PM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
jeather that Mulan thing was amazing.
posted by emjaybee at 2:11 PM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by emjaybee at 2:11 PM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you want creepy marketing tie-in, watch the Lego Friends cartoon show. Apart from some really weird plotting and storylines, there are shots where the dolls' asses and chests are the focus while they dance.
Not only is it a show for little girls, it is a show about little girls and we still get bullshit random fan service nonsense.
I'm eager to get a Rey figurine for my kid, as well as a Rey costume. She's getting bored with princesses, is keen on Monster High (SHE. IS. A. WEREWOLF. is a direct quote x 15) despite not having seen her. I'm not keen on it, but I'm not a six year old.
posted by geek anachronism at 2:14 PM on December 31, 2015
Not only is it a show for little girls, it is a show about little girls and we still get bullshit random fan service nonsense.
I'm eager to get a Rey figurine for my kid, as well as a Rey costume. She's getting bored with princesses, is keen on Monster High (SHE. IS. A. WEREWOLF. is a direct quote x 15) despite not having seen her. I'm not keen on it, but I'm not a six year old.
posted by geek anachronism at 2:14 PM on December 31, 2015
TIL Uno is worth $172 million a year.
posted by Splunge at 2:16 PM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Splunge at 2:16 PM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
TIL Uno is worth $172 million a year.
If everyone's like me, it's because they keep having to buy a new copy when their kids scatter the cards.
posted by drezdn at 3:02 PM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
If everyone's like me, it's because they keep having to buy a new copy when their kids scatter the cards.
posted by drezdn at 3:02 PM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Each princess is a princess. They're all special. If they're friends with each other, that can imply hierarchy (e.g. a princess pouring tea for another, a princess tossing a ball to another). It's forbidden to show a princess in any situation that makes them appear to be in a lesser role than any other.
Queen Elsa says "give me my tea, princess. "
posted by eriko at 3:39 PM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Queen Elsa says "give me my tea, princess. "
posted by eriko at 3:39 PM on December 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
I love both the look and the philosophy of this doll at kickstarter, and am bummed that they're not going to meet their funding goal.
posted by not that girl at 4:00 PM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by not that girl at 4:00 PM on December 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
God, pour a damn cup of tea for someone like a considerate host and people think that implies subservience.
posted by JHarris at 4:16 PM on December 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 4:16 PM on December 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
Rapunzel and Finn go to Elsa's coronation, so SOMETIMES the princesses interact ...
They didn't talk to anyone, so I'm pretty sure they were just there for the little sandwiches and chocolate.
But don't the princesses interact with each other in Once Upon a Time? I'm not sure, because I couldn't watch more than three minutes of the first episode.
posted by happyroach at 4:57 PM on December 31, 2015
They didn't talk to anyone, so I'm pretty sure they were just there for the little sandwiches and chocolate.
But don't the princesses interact with each other in Once Upon a Time? I'm not sure, because I couldn't watch more than three minutes of the first episode.
posted by happyroach at 4:57 PM on December 31, 2015
Big-headed cartoons are more than just a drawing style choice. There are strong practical reasons to draw characters that way. If you want to convey emotion, you make the head large and emphasize the eyes, eyebrows, and mouth. The nose and ears aren't important, so make then small and indistinct.
Neoteny.
posted by bendy at 5:32 PM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Neoteny.
posted by bendy at 5:32 PM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
So what would the princesses look like in their adult form?
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:09 PM on December 31, 2015
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:09 PM on December 31, 2015
So what would the princesses look like in their adult form?
This.
posted by happyroach at 9:28 PM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
This.
posted by happyroach at 9:28 PM on December 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
Game of Thrones illustrates the danger of too much princess-princess interaction. Competing hierarchies are hell.
or
I'm eager to get a Rey figurine for my kid
working on that.
posted by twist my arm at 11:46 PM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
or
I'm eager to get a Rey figurine for my kid
working on that.
posted by twist my arm at 11:46 PM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
This,
Also, um, what is Iron Man doing to Belle?
Then,
..apparently, something not discussed in polite company.
And,
G-ddamned Bloomberg.com webdevs and your parallex viewer to hell...
Firebug FTW!
posted by mikelieman at 3:52 AM on January 1, 2016
Also, um, what is Iron Man doing to Belle?
Then,
..apparently, something not discussed in polite company.
And,
G-ddamned Bloomberg.com webdevs and your parallex viewer to hell...
Firebug FTW!
posted by mikelieman at 3:52 AM on January 1, 2016
That was an unexpectedly interesting article!
This gave me hope:
[Disney] was starting to hear you’re-sending-the-wrong-message-to-our-daughter complaints from parents ... “The focus will be on empowered heroines.”
And this made me smirk:
One of [the new Mattel CEO's] first moves was to call Disney and apologize ... Since January, two-thirds of Mattel’s senior executives have stepped down or been laid off.
Wow. Do not piss off the Mouse, I guess.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:03 PM on January 1, 2016
This gave me hope:
[Disney] was starting to hear you’re-sending-the-wrong-message-to-our-daughter complaints from parents ... “The focus will be on empowered heroines.”
And this made me smirk:
One of [the new Mattel CEO's] first moves was to call Disney and apologize ... Since January, two-thirds of Mattel’s senior executives have stepped down or been laid off.
Wow. Do not piss off the Mouse, I guess.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:03 PM on January 1, 2016
It's not so much "do not piss off the Mouse" as "do not take one of your largest business partners for granted". Mattel was basically carrying on like nothing was wrong, while Disney was dealing with the fallout.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:18 PM on January 1, 2016
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:18 PM on January 1, 2016
God, pour a damn cup of tea for someone like a considerate host and people think that implies subservience.
Right? Besides, the teapot can do that herself.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:37 PM on January 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
Right? Besides, the teapot can do that herself.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:37 PM on January 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
> the princesses are not friends.
Which is ironic, because the princesses spend all their time around here having goddamn tea parties with each other, with the knockoff barbies, with the Shirtless Kens, with dinosaurs, with invisible snakes, etc, etc ...
What I'm getting at is that while I'm sure Disney have their reasons, I'm not sure the target audience give a crap.
posted by nickzoic at 3:36 AM on January 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Which is ironic, because the princesses spend all their time around here having goddamn tea parties with each other, with the knockoff barbies, with the Shirtless Kens, with dinosaurs, with invisible snakes, etc, etc ...
What I'm getting at is that while I'm sure Disney have their reasons, I'm not sure the target audience give a crap.
posted by nickzoic at 3:36 AM on January 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
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posted by bgal81 at 8:44 AM on December 31, 2015 [7 favorites]