Parler Games
January 11, 2021 3:22 AM Subscribe
Parler got owned. Badly. Whilst scrambling to keep operational as various server providers pulled Parler from their services the admins left open a security loophole that allowed hackers to create administration accounts.
They used this to create MILLIONS of admin accounts and to start downloading all of the data that Parler had stored. Amongst this data, discussions planning to attack the US Capitol from verified users (with pictures of their drivers licences etc. ), GPS data, photos with EXIF data.
Further info in this Reddit thread.
Here's an interesting discussion.
posted by Homemade Interossiter at 3:35 AM on January 11, 2021 [41 favorites]
posted by Homemade Interossiter at 3:35 AM on January 11, 2021 [41 favorites]
Words cannot express my glee about this.
So, even though Parler is (was!) Twitter for fascist ghouls, this hack is still super illegal, right?
Would that render these materials inadmissible as evidence in court?
I hope that these patriots are thinking about things like that as they disseminate this data.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
So, even though Parler is (was!) Twitter for fascist ghouls, this hack is still super illegal, right?
Would that render these materials inadmissible as evidence in court?
I hope that these patriots are thinking about things like that as they disseminate this data.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
HOLY SHIT HAHAHAHAHA
posted by loquacious at 3:40 AM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by loquacious at 3:40 AM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
Of course the next step will be the Parler guys making a script that deletes all the administrative accounts .... and then there's that oh-shit moment
posted by mbo at 3:42 AM on January 11, 2021 [28 favorites]
posted by mbo at 3:42 AM on January 11, 2021 [28 favorites]
It should be made more clear that this is not the fault of Twilio - it is not the case that having your auth provider suspend you leaves the door wide open. It leaves the door locked shut. If you then decide to prop it open with a brick for a while because you are scrambling...
As for admissibility, for the most part, as long as the police did not engage in or encourage the illegal activity, it's not an issue.
posted by Nothing at 3:45 AM on January 11, 2021 [40 favorites]
As for admissibility, for the most part, as long as the police did not engage in or encourage the illegal activity, it's not an issue.
posted by Nothing at 3:45 AM on January 11, 2021 [40 favorites]
I doubt the hacked materials can themselves be used as evidence, but they could be used to point the FBI in the correct direction to subpoena the data directly from AWS.
posted by zixyer at 4:05 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by zixyer at 4:05 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
I would be stunned if AWS hasn’t already received a National Security Letter for the whole of Parler.
But then, I have spent the last five years being stunned, so who knows.
posted by rockindata at 4:14 AM on January 11, 2021 [56 favorites]
But then, I have spent the last five years being stunned, so who knows.
posted by rockindata at 4:14 AM on January 11, 2021 [56 favorites]
Normally with a multi-TB dump of website data you might be thinking “oh jeez, this huge lake of unindexed uncategorized data, whatever shall I do to find bits relevant to my law enforcement interests?”
Luckily in this case every post is probably hashtagged within an inch of its life so you can separate the Hope Hicks slash from the bomb materials group purchases with ease!
posted by bgribble at 4:20 AM on January 11, 2021 [20 favorites]
Luckily in this case every post is probably hashtagged within an inch of its life so you can separate the Hope Hicks slash from the bomb materials group purchases with ease!
posted by bgribble at 4:20 AM on January 11, 2021 [20 favorites]
Another thread, describing the palpable lack of basic technical expertise at Parler.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 4:35 AM on January 11, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by Cardinal Fang at 4:35 AM on January 11, 2021 [14 favorites]
Redditor Chemgoddesone says this:
Holy shit if this is legit.....
Since the sources seem to be the reddit post and twitter, and this being Metafilter, I feel compelled to ask...
Is this legit?
posted by lovelyzoo at 4:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [13 favorites]
Holy shit if this is legit.....
Since the sources seem to be the reddit post and twitter, and this being Metafilter, I feel compelled to ask...
Is this legit?
posted by lovelyzoo at 4:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [13 favorites]
And here I thought rebranding themselves as "Evidence" was just a joke. It will be interesting to see if this is accurate and if so how it plays out.
posted by TedW at 4:41 AM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by TedW at 4:41 AM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
There's a word I'm grasping for, a German term...
Avenue Q - Schadenfreude
posted by Major Clanger at 4:42 AM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
Avenue Q - Schadenfreude
posted by Major Clanger at 4:42 AM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
keh heh heh
Still, it's worth remembering that these millions of idiots are intended as camouflage for the few direct actors. If they happen to do some damage jizzing off onto the speaker's desk, that's a bonus, but no one who matters cares what happens to them. The point of Parler was to raise an army of fools, not to serve as an actual secure rallying point.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:46 AM on January 11, 2021 [30 favorites]
Still, it's worth remembering that these millions of idiots are intended as camouflage for the few direct actors. If they happen to do some damage jizzing off onto the speaker's desk, that's a bonus, but no one who matters cares what happens to them. The point of Parler was to raise an army of fools, not to serve as an actual secure rallying point.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:46 AM on January 11, 2021 [30 favorites]
> Is this legit?
I think they have a 56.69 subset of TB post/image/video data, but people didn't get admin status and I guess didn't get DMs and stuff?
Link
I think they have a 56.69 subset of TB post/image/video data, but people didn't get admin status and I guess didn't get DMs and stuff?
Link
From the Twitter user in the image & a ycombinator post below, it seems mostly:posted by sebastienbailard at 4:51 AM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
dumb Parler endpoints that let you put in an integer and it will turn it into a post/image/video (rather than making you know the random ID)
this Twitter user listing all content out using these, & creating scripts to get it all archived before it went down
The stuff around 2FA going down seems mostly:
another Twitter account pointing out that since 2FA and email verification are down, anyone can create an account and spam Parler
original Twitter user creating a script to automate creating accounts
No suggestion that these services being down has allowed accounts to be compromised
Stuff around admin accounts seems mostly:
this Twitter user decompiling the app to see what the admin UI looks like and how it tells if the user is an admin or not
dumb Parler user endpoint gives you that information for any user, not just yourself
this Twitter user listed the first few hundred admin accounts (possibly similar enumeration issue as the first bit) on Github but no suggestion they've been compromised
Maybe account compromise happened elsewhere but it doesn't seem to have been reported by the Twitter user in OP's image.
Consider it like SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence) that people used to load up as screen savers when their computers were not being used. Same concept, crowdsourcing.
Search for Extra Trumpy Idiots
posted by Slackermagee at 4:52 AM on January 11, 2021 [29 favorites]
Search for Extra Trumpy Idiots
posted by Slackermagee at 4:52 AM on January 11, 2021 [29 favorites]
Fun part from the Reddit thread - the site was set up so that it encouraged people to try to stand out with more and more edgy/extreme content. Assuming there'll be a lot of Day Of The Rope, Inside Congress, Going To Hang Pence and similar for law enforcement to have fun with.
posted by MattWPBS at 4:56 AM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
For example - one of the most harrowing images from June 6th was the erection of gallows across from the Capitol building. Since Parler only allows users to search by username or hashtag, the only way to get attention on the site is to liberally apply hashtags to their posts. From this you can see hashtags like "__insertname__4gallows" rise and fall ("pelosi4gallows", "pence4gallows", etc). The act of hanging itself actually grows viral in itself on the site in lockstep with the popularity of the word "traitor".Looking forward to seeing some reporting based on this dump.
posted by MattWPBS at 4:56 AM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
link to the Docker swarm tracker. The column on the right shows which URLs are being archived right now. You can look at any of those URLs to see what content they contain. URLs up above are more likely to come up as it looks like someone's trying to disable access to this data but can't quite keep up.
posted by bl1nk at 4:58 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by bl1nk at 4:58 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
Twitter account of the user who started the archiving
Looks like Parler left apis exposed and everything could be retrieved just by incrementing integers. No real hack involved which is somehow even sadder.
posted by mikesch at 5:00 AM on January 11, 2021 [16 favorites]
Looks like Parler left apis exposed and everything could be retrieved just by incrementing integers. No real hack involved which is somehow even sadder.
posted by mikesch at 5:00 AM on January 11, 2021 [16 favorites]
something... something... free market has failed...
Poor Dan Bongino. His whole life has been dedicated to owning the libs, as a third tier owner of libs, and the only reason he rates that high is the grift machine circle jerk is bound to give even the most shameless of bottom feeders a tug once in a while. Parler was looking like a nice little base for him to kick up his heels and relax a bit, but it had half baked baked into it from the beginning. "Made by idiotic clowns, for idiotic clowns" is their motto. Whoda thunk that when your business model relies on a "more odious than thou" competition that nobody's going to be all that keen going to bat for you?
posted by 2N2222 at 5:06 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
Poor Dan Bongino. His whole life has been dedicated to owning the libs, as a third tier owner of libs, and the only reason he rates that high is the grift machine circle jerk is bound to give even the most shameless of bottom feeders a tug once in a while. Parler was looking like a nice little base for him to kick up his heels and relax a bit, but it had half baked baked into it from the beginning. "Made by idiotic clowns, for idiotic clowns" is their motto. Whoda thunk that when your business model relies on a "more odious than thou" competition that nobody's going to be all that keen going to bat for you?
posted by 2N2222 at 5:06 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
This is what’s happening in plain sight. I am even more concerned about what’s happening behind closed doors in Telegram channels.
posted by oceanjesse at 5:23 AM on January 11, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by oceanjesse at 5:23 AM on January 11, 2021 [30 favorites]
So they were trying to run the whole thing on a free trial of an auth provider named Okta?
I don't recall a single mention in any of the discussions I've read of the Mercers who have apparently been funding the whole thing. It would be nice if the press (or the justice system) was talking more about them.
posted by clawsoon at 5:33 AM on January 11, 2021 [21 favorites]
I don't recall a single mention in any of the discussions I've read of the Mercers who have apparently been funding the whole thing. It would be nice if the press (or the justice system) was talking more about them.
posted by clawsoon at 5:33 AM on January 11, 2021 [21 favorites]
I knew I should have gotten popcorn in my last grocery delivery.
posted by SansPoint at 5:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 5:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
I'm not sure I agree with the twitter thread linked above that Parler must have some shadowy financial backer. Building out a social network app well and sustainably is very expensive. Building it out poorly and unsustainably is at least one order of magnitude cheaper, possibly two or three, especially if you have an ideological mission that can convince people with the relevant skills to work for free or less than market rates. I think recent events have made it very clear which route they went.
Sure, if their member numbers are anywhere close to what's claimed, their AWS spend is probably $X0,000/month, but then if their user numbers are anywhere close to what's claimed, InfoWars has demonstrated that right-wing conspiracy nuts are a very lucrative advertising demographic. So it doesn't seem that implausible that Dan Bongino could have raised half a million or a million dollars from his own pocket and some wealthy nutjobs to get this thing off the ground and to the point where ads for nutritional supplements, tactical underwear, and gold coins bring in enough revenue to make it profitable.
posted by firechicago at 5:41 AM on January 11, 2021 [15 favorites]
Sure, if their member numbers are anywhere close to what's claimed, their AWS spend is probably $X0,000/month, but then if their user numbers are anywhere close to what's claimed, InfoWars has demonstrated that right-wing conspiracy nuts are a very lucrative advertising demographic. So it doesn't seem that implausible that Dan Bongino could have raised half a million or a million dollars from his own pocket and some wealthy nutjobs to get this thing off the ground and to the point where ads for nutritional supplements, tactical underwear, and gold coins bring in enough revenue to make it profitable.
posted by firechicago at 5:41 AM on January 11, 2021 [15 favorites]
Sure, if their member numbers are anywhere close to what's claimed, their AWS spend is probably $X0,000/month
I’ve seen $300k a month tossed out there as a figure multiple times with no real citation. Which makes sense to me based on what I’ve heard about their backend which seems to be architected based on brute force and ignorance.
posted by mikesch at 5:47 AM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
I’ve seen $300k a month tossed out there as a figure multiple times with no real citation. Which makes sense to me based on what I’ve heard about their backend which seems to be architected based on brute force and ignorance.
posted by mikesch at 5:47 AM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
It is not just tech companies giving them the boot. Parler CEO tells Fox News that they've been dropped by their lawyers too.
posted by Mitheral at 5:52 AM on January 11, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 5:52 AM on January 11, 2021 [19 favorites]
The Invisible Hand of Several-Thousand-Crisis-Meetings-Coming-Up-With-The-Same-Immediate-Action-Item
posted by Slackermagee at 6:01 AM on January 11, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by Slackermagee at 6:01 AM on January 11, 2021 [23 favorites]
Oh, look, I've worked in the same company as the Parler CTO, probably with the same people.
Given what I remember, exactly 0% of this surprises me.
posted by JustAnotherPerson at 6:05 AM on January 11, 2021 [38 favorites]
Given what I remember, exactly 0% of this surprises me.
posted by JustAnotherPerson at 6:05 AM on January 11, 2021 [38 favorites]
firechicago: Parler does have a shadowy financial backer, though. Her name is Rebekah Mercer.
posted by SansPoint at 6:10 AM on January 11, 2021 [24 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 6:10 AM on January 11, 2021 [24 favorites]
I guess I picked the wrong day to stop punching nazis.
posted by chavenet at 6:14 AM on January 11, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 6:14 AM on January 11, 2021 [23 favorites]
I've also been trying to follow whether news of the (too good to be true?) hack is legit. This Gizmodo article from an hour ago reports it as fact, but seems to take @donk_enby's posts and word for it, adding that her "efforts are documented on the website ArchiveTeam.org." Still doesn't seem like this purportedly hacked data has been seen / confirmed by anyone.
posted by little onion at 6:15 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by little onion at 6:15 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Still doesn't seem like this purportedly hacked data has been seen / confirmed by anyone.
To be fair, the data isn't supposed to be on AWS anymore...
posted by Nanukthedog at 6:20 AM on January 11, 2021
To be fair, the data isn't supposed to be on AWS anymore...
posted by Nanukthedog at 6:20 AM on January 11, 2021
The weak link in Russian intelligence plays often seems to be the US techbros at the centre of it. They should stick to their usual Moldovian contractors.
posted by bonehead at 6:24 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 6:24 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
So they were trying to run the whole thing on a free trial of an auth provider named Okta?
Okta is a legitimate auth/2FA provider. I've been in a few companies that used Okta, including one that did secure payment terminals. It's pretty good, actually.
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:25 AM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
Okta is a legitimate auth/2FA provider. I've been in a few companies that used Okta, including one that did secure payment terminals. It's pretty good, actually.
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:25 AM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
I guess I picked the wrong day to stop punching nazis.
There is never a day to stop punching nazis.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:27 AM on January 11, 2021 [27 favorites]
There is never a day to stop punching nazis.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:27 AM on January 11, 2021 [27 favorites]
Newsweek - Parler Hack Claims Are Fake, CEO says...
You could be right, but that particular case is a different claimed hack from November of last year.
posted by clawsoon at 6:31 AM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
You could be right, but that particular case is a different claimed hack from November of last year.
posted by clawsoon at 6:31 AM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
Yeah - again, apologies for my failure to read a date... already too much misinformation around for me to add to the stack.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by kabong the wiser at 6:33 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by kabong the wiser at 6:33 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
> Okta is a legitimate auth/2FA provider.
My surprise is less that Parler was using Okta and more the amateur-hour situation of deploying their free trial on the live site. What was their plan when the free trial was up?
posted by at by at 6:36 AM on January 11, 2021 [13 favorites]
My surprise is less that Parler was using Okta and more the amateur-hour situation of deploying their free trial on the live site. What was their plan when the free trial was up?
posted by at by at 6:36 AM on January 11, 2021 [13 favorites]
It's hardly a surprise Parler is riddled with flaws is it? API endpoints lack security. Passwords get written to log files. An outdated firewall rule exposes network topology. ICBM launch codes get set to 00000000. Trump gets elected President. These are things that happen in the real world. To think amateur-hour shit won't happen to you is itself amateurish.
It's dangerous to underestimate the enemy. The Nazi's weren't dummies. These guys aren't either. A couple of hours after Left Twitter started posting things like "Ha ha, these idiots don't even know kettling!" the idiots were inside the Capitol building.
sigh
posted by dmh at 6:37 AM on January 11, 2021 [24 favorites]
It's dangerous to underestimate the enemy. The Nazi's weren't dummies. These guys aren't either. A couple of hours after Left Twitter started posting things like "Ha ha, these idiots don't even know kettling!" the idiots were inside the Capitol building.
sigh
posted by dmh at 6:37 AM on January 11, 2021 [24 favorites]
As far as I can tell there are two things here
1.The Parler Archive project run by donk_enby this is just crawling the site and puling down everything -- similar to what google does when they crawl a site. There is some level of "hacking" in this effort as it's unclear if this is bypassing the "security" in Parler. This seems focused on more public data like "posts".
2. Claims that Hackers have broken into Parler's backend and that they have compromised the private data like drivers license photos and compromised admin accounts. I'm not sure how much of this is legit or verified as actually happening at this point.
posted by interogative mood at 6:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [15 favorites]
1.The Parler Archive project run by donk_enby this is just crawling the site and puling down everything -- similar to what google does when they crawl a site. There is some level of "hacking" in this effort as it's unclear if this is bypassing the "security" in Parler. This seems focused on more public data like "posts".
2. Claims that Hackers have broken into Parler's backend and that they have compromised the private data like drivers license photos and compromised admin accounts. I'm not sure how much of this is legit or verified as actually happening at this point.
posted by interogative mood at 6:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [15 favorites]
To be fair, the data isn't supposed to be on AWS anymore...
I bet a million dollars that the data is still on AWS held by preservation order and soon to be subpoenaed, if not already, by the FBI.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
I bet a million dollars that the data is still on AWS held by preservation order and soon to be subpoenaed, if not already, by the FBI.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
It's dangerous to underestimate the enemy. The Nazi's weren't dummies. These guys aren't either. A couple of hours after Left Twitter started posting things like "Ha ha, these idiots don't even know kettling!" the idiots were inside the Capitol building.
Playing life on the easiest difficulty setting sure has its advantages.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:41 AM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
Playing life on the easiest difficulty setting sure has its advantages.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:41 AM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
> A couple of hours after Left Twitter started posting things like "Ha ha, these idiots don't even know kettling!" the idiots were inside the Capitol building.
I agree that they shouldn't be underestimated, but this situation was like a zombie movie where a villain leaves a door open so the zombies can get into the building where the heroes are hiding. Anyway, fuck Parler and everyone who was on it including the leader of the federal Canadian Conservative party.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:42 AM on January 11, 2021 [12 favorites]
I agree that they shouldn't be underestimated, but this situation was like a zombie movie where a villain leaves a door open so the zombies can get into the building where the heroes are hiding. Anyway, fuck Parler and everyone who was on it including the leader of the federal Canadian Conservative party.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:42 AM on January 11, 2021 [12 favorites]
Deplatforming has been by far the most successful check on right wing extremism.
We have a czar for everything in the government. Make Nandini Jammi the online extremism Czar or some such.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:43 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
We have a czar for everything in the government. Make Nandini Jammi the online extremism Czar or some such.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:43 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
Whoda thunk that when your business model relies on a "more odious than thou" competition that nobody's going to be all that keen going to bat for you?
Eh, we've had a long, ignoble tradition in US society of going to bat for the hateful out of an obligation to "free speech" - see Zuckerberg's comments on allowing Holocaust denial on Facebook, Matthew Prince's arguments for why Cloudflare has to work with terrorists and Nazis, etc. What's changed as of late is people's patience with said arguments - for a long time people would nod along with them, agreeing that "free speech" meant accepting hate; but these days people are starting to say "you know, I don't think that hate speech is the price of free speech."
Parler (and many other cesspools of hate) depended on that cultural blind eye. They really don't know how to respond to it beginning to vanish.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:52 AM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
Eh, we've had a long, ignoble tradition in US society of going to bat for the hateful out of an obligation to "free speech" - see Zuckerberg's comments on allowing Holocaust denial on Facebook, Matthew Prince's arguments for why Cloudflare has to work with terrorists and Nazis, etc. What's changed as of late is people's patience with said arguments - for a long time people would nod along with them, agreeing that "free speech" meant accepting hate; but these days people are starting to say "you know, I don't think that hate speech is the price of free speech."
Parler (and many other cesspools of hate) depended on that cultural blind eye. They really don't know how to respond to it beginning to vanish.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:52 AM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
I'm sure this is a complicated story, with many parts, still-moving parts, parts unverified, etc. But can someone explain in layperson's terms what is going on here? I don't use Parler or Twitter. Thanks.
posted by SoberHighland at 6:53 AM on January 11, 2021
posted by SoberHighland at 6:53 AM on January 11, 2021
I'm a founding member of ArchiveTeam, but not active for years. From what I can see, the story is incorrect. ArchiveTeam managed to find and download 70 terabytes of publically available data. This would only include drivers licenses if Parlor publically exposed them, which strains credubility. They probably used this approach to enumerate the API endpoint. Hacker news thread
(Not to say someone didn't hack Parlor of course. I'd hope the FBI?)
posted by joeyh at 6:56 AM on January 11, 2021 [19 favorites]
(Not to say someone didn't hack Parlor of course. I'd hope the FBI?)
posted by joeyh at 6:56 AM on January 11, 2021 [19 favorites]
> There is some level of "hacking" in this effort as it's unclear if this is bypassing the "security" in Parler. This seems focused on more public data like "posts".
The "hack" seems mostly to be discovering that posts were numbered serially and could be accessed as such through the API. So the first post on Parler could be retrieved at the (hypothetical) URL
Further, Parler was not scrubbing the metadata off media. When you upload images and video to Twitter, Facebook, and most other major sites, the camera metadata within the media is wiped as a security measure. Since Parler wasn't, it's possible to know with precision when and where everybody's videos and photos were taken (thanks to GPS), and usually even more information.
posted by at by at 7:03 AM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
The "hack" seems mostly to be discovering that posts were numbered serially and could be accessed as such through the API. So the first post on Parler could be retrieved at the (hypothetical) URL
parler.com/p/1, the millionth post at parler.com/p/1000000, and so on. By contrast, Twitter does not number posts serially, so knowing about post number 1746874558476079104 is insufficient information to find the posts immediately before and after it.Further, Parler was not scrubbing the metadata off media. When you upload images and video to Twitter, Facebook, and most other major sites, the camera metadata within the media is wiped as a security measure. Since Parler wasn't, it's possible to know with precision when and where everybody's videos and photos were taken (thanks to GPS), and usually even more information.
posted by at by at 7:03 AM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
The "hack" seems mostly to be discovering that posts were numbered serially and could be accessed as such through the API.
... shades of the German Tank Problem that allowed Allied intelligence to count Nazi tanks during WW2.
posted by elgilito at 7:11 AM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
... shades of the German Tank Problem that allowed Allied intelligence to count Nazi tanks during WW2.
posted by elgilito at 7:11 AM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
One relatively minor detail which is giving me a lot of glee:
Because they only soft-deleted content, Parler could be subject to GDPR fines if any of those users were EU citizens...
Parler's got 99 problems, and GDPR is one.
posted by cheshyre at 7:15 AM on January 11, 2021 [53 favorites]
Because they only soft-deleted content, Parler could be subject to GDPR fines if any of those users were EU citizens...
Parler's got 99 problems, and GDPR is one.
posted by cheshyre at 7:15 AM on January 11, 2021 [53 favorites]
Further, Parler was not scrubbing the metadata off media. When you upload images and video to Twitter, Facebook, and most other major sites, the camera metadata within the media is wiped as a security measure. Since Parler wasn't, it's possible to know with precision when and where everybody's videos and photos were taken (thanks to GPS), and usually even more information.
Ah, this must be the meritocracy that the conservative computer engineers were always talking about.
posted by Ouverture at 7:17 AM on January 11, 2021 [34 favorites]
Ah, this must be the meritocracy that the conservative computer engineers were always talking about.
posted by Ouverture at 7:17 AM on January 11, 2021 [34 favorites]
Because they only soft-deleted content, Parler could be subject to GDPR fines if any of those users were EU citizens...
It's not uncommon for a soft-delete to happen immediately and then to have a separate process which actually does delete the data. If the latter happens within 30 days, they can still be GDPR-compliant.
(Disclaimer: I wasn't able to tell whether this was the case for Parler from the text I skimmed.)
posted by Slothrup at 7:24 AM on January 11, 2021 [5 favorites]
It's not uncommon for a soft-delete to happen immediately and then to have a separate process which actually does delete the data. If the latter happens within 30 days, they can still be GDPR-compliant.
(Disclaimer: I wasn't able to tell whether this was the case for Parler from the text I skimmed.)
posted by Slothrup at 7:24 AM on January 11, 2021 [5 favorites]
this image tells the whole enumeration story. Parler used long impossible to guess UUIDs. But had a public API endpoint that converted incrementing post ID numbers into these UUIDs. Which is being used there to query every single UUID they used.
posted by joeyh at 7:24 AM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by joeyh at 7:24 AM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
Reddit debunks explanation of hack cited in O.P.; links to accurate description (yellow highlighted comment from Rawling).
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 7:29 AM on January 11, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 7:29 AM on January 11, 2021 [15 favorites]
Twitter, Facebook, and most other major sites, the camera metadata within the media is wiped as a security measure.
Note that is is for the security of it's users not the hosting service. The ignorant would otherwise upload the location of activities. The hosting service will make use of this data even though it isn't exposed to the public. That Parler didn't care about protecting their users is 100% on message.
posted by Mitheral at 7:31 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Note that is is for the security of it's users not the hosting service. The ignorant would otherwise upload the location of activities. The hosting service will make use of this data even though it isn't exposed to the public. That Parler didn't care about protecting their users is 100% on message.
posted by Mitheral at 7:31 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
If information was gained illegally, it might not be admissible; this is not a straightforward issue. If the FBI, NSA, or other federal agencies were not harvesting the same data from Parler aggressively, and with whatever permissions are required, they are really, really not doing their jobs.
posted by theora55 at 7:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 7:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
If information was gained illegally, it might not be admissible; this is not a straightforward issue.
Exactly this.
I will get more excited about this kind of stuff when I start seeing real criminal charges against these terrorist thugs.
People at the J20 inauguration were hit with charges that would put them behind bars for twenty years the very next day. (So we can put to bed the argument that "bigger charges are coming and they're just taking their time." Yeah, the slow walk is so we forget about these chumps, not to nail them harder.)
I have close to zero faith that the FBI is doing it's fucking job.
Also, as a reminder, while the NSA might scoop up tons on US citizens, they are not necessarily allowed to use that information in the US. Our best bet would be the Five Eyes and have our intelligence agencies request data from UK, NZ, or Canada.
Ugh.
posted by deadaluspark at 7:42 AM on January 11, 2021 [16 favorites]
Exactly this.
I will get more excited about this kind of stuff when I start seeing real criminal charges against these terrorist thugs.
People at the J20 inauguration were hit with charges that would put them behind bars for twenty years the very next day. (So we can put to bed the argument that "bigger charges are coming and they're just taking their time." Yeah, the slow walk is so we forget about these chumps, not to nail them harder.)
I have close to zero faith that the FBI is doing it's fucking job.
Also, as a reminder, while the NSA might scoop up tons on US citizens, they are not necessarily allowed to use that information in the US. Our best bet would be the Five Eyes and have our intelligence agencies request data from UK, NZ, or Canada.
Ugh.
posted by deadaluspark at 7:42 AM on January 11, 2021 [16 favorites]
Isn't stripping EXIF data from photos and videos just censorship tho! :)
Took me a while to get into the mindset that would allow someone to reset a random admin password without any confirmation, and this is how I think it happened, from a omg-get-a-site-up-and-running-now-now-now development perspective:
You start your social-media site by creating your data-models representing your users, then build the new-user signup logic flow.
You're using Okta/Twilio to handle the 'We've send you an email/code to confirm your email address-- follow the instructions there to complete sign-up!'. but you then decide to be business smart and think 'If Twilio/Okta are offline, I don't want to block users from signing up-- so just skip that email confirmation step for those rare occasions'
All is good in the world, you keep on developing-- then get around to the password reset feature-- from a quick glance, it's all the same logic/authentication flows as creating an account, so as a good developer you reuse the code you've put together for the user-creation stuff.
**Boom**-- you've shot yourself in the foot. Now when Okta/Twilio are down (or in this case, have cancelled your account) your logic just says "Oh it's down! Lets just pretend all was good and skip to the next step" and you've allowed a random person to reset any user's password.
posted by Static Vagabond at 7:51 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
Took me a while to get into the mindset that would allow someone to reset a random admin password without any confirmation, and this is how I think it happened, from a omg-get-a-site-up-and-running-now-now-now development perspective:
You start your social-media site by creating your data-models representing your users, then build the new-user signup logic flow.
You're using Okta/Twilio to handle the 'We've send you an email/code to confirm your email address-- follow the instructions there to complete sign-up!'. but you then decide to be business smart and think 'If Twilio/Okta are offline, I don't want to block users from signing up-- so just skip that email confirmation step for those rare occasions'
All is good in the world, you keep on developing-- then get around to the password reset feature-- from a quick glance, it's all the same logic/authentication flows as creating an account, so as a good developer you reuse the code you've put together for the user-creation stuff.
**Boom**-- you've shot yourself in the foot. Now when Okta/Twilio are down (or in this case, have cancelled your account) your logic just says "Oh it's down! Lets just pretend all was good and skip to the next step" and you've allowed a random person to reset any user's password.
posted by Static Vagabond at 7:51 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
congrats to parler on their new serverless platform
posted by nicoffeine at 7:51 AM on January 11, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by nicoffeine at 7:51 AM on January 11, 2021 [19 favorites]
If information was gained illegally, it might not be admissible; this is not a straightforward issue. If the FBI, NSA, or other federal agencies were not harvesting the same data from Parler aggressively, and with whatever permissions are required, they are really, really not doing their jobs.
It's inadmissible because there's no chain of custody for the evidence. However, I will bet dollars to donuts that all the Parler data being stored on AWS is being preserved subject to a preservation order and that the FBI has probably already subpoenaed the data. Also, the leaked data can by used by outside help to tell the FBI where to look avoiding any confidentially issues.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:57 AM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
It's inadmissible because there's no chain of custody for the evidence. However, I will bet dollars to donuts that all the Parler data being stored on AWS is being preserved subject to a preservation order and that the FBI has probably already subpoenaed the data. Also, the leaked data can by used by outside help to tell the FBI where to look avoiding any confidentially issues.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:57 AM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
this image tells the whole enumeration story. Parler used long impossible to guess UUIDs. But had a public API endpoint that converted incrementing post ID numbers into these UUIDs. Which is being used there to query every single UUID they used.
O_o
So they did it right, and then build another additional thing to make sure it was broken?
posted by each day we work at 7:58 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
O_o
So they did it right, and then build another additional thing to make sure it was broken?
posted by each day we work at 7:58 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
then build another additional thing to make sure it was broken?
Technical debt is a cruel mistress, man.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:04 AM on January 11, 2021 [16 favorites]
Technical debt is a cruel mistress, man.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:04 AM on January 11, 2021 [16 favorites]
This is the best tweet about Parler:
I figured out where Parler is moving.
I just got off the phone with Four Seasons Total Landscaping and when I asked them if they can do terraform they said yes
posted by chavenet at 8:18 AM on January 11, 2021 [40 favorites]
I figured out where Parler is moving.
I just got off the phone with Four Seasons Total Landscaping and when I asked them if they can do terraform they said yes
posted by chavenet at 8:18 AM on January 11, 2021 [40 favorites]
The Parler logo looks like a toilet diagram tilted sideways. This isn't really relevant, but it's been bugging me for days.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:28 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:28 AM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
From what I can see:
1) The archive Team looked at the Parler app to find public data (API) endpoints that allowed grabbing posts (i.e. getting posts and pictures like the app does, instead of as a webpage)
2) access said endpoints to grab everything posted to Parler on the 4th, 5th and 6th, including pictures and many videos
3) provide a mini software image (docker) so others could participate in grabbing files in time before Parler got shut down by Amazon
4) watch in amazement as Parler don't shut down said endpoints
5) archive and publish the retrieved public data
The thing about driver IDs is parler users posted those pictures *themselves*, publicly. There's also a TON of incriminating videos and posts, including metadata that wasn't removed, such as the GPS location tag your phone helpfully adds to each photo. This is what we call in the trade an ID 10 T error; or, problem exists in the wetware interface between chair and keyboard. Stuff posted publicly to the internet can be seen (and recorded) by people on the internet, which these Parler users are OUTRAGED to discover.
Theoretically this isn't illegal, as the information was publicly available, and accessible by anyone already - this is no different fundamentally than screenshotting an idiots tweet before it gets deleted. However, distributing it as an archive would then be covered by copyright; but fair use should apply in this case - it's exactly the same as the internet archive archiving other websites over time, the difference is they grabbed TB of data in a very short space of time. Whether such a public archive is usable in court is another matter entirely.
The 'trick' was getting the posts by sequential ID number, instead of the obfuscated one that showed on the website, so they could trivially get everything posted after a certain date.
I.e. I know a post that happened early on Jan 6th has a 'secret' ID of 56789, I therefore know if I get posts 56790, 56791, 56792 etc that they will have been posted after the first one. Repeat until you run out of storage space or you catch up with current date/time. Normally, you'd only know the obscured ID, i.e. the 'reference' post is ID 9b25faef8c, while the next two (by time) posts by other people are c59e96c1d0 and 23a200a9b3 - no way to retrieve posts by date from that! And yes, that's one reason why you don't use sequential ID numbers at all if possible, and you DEFINITELY don't make them publicly available. It's ID10Ts all the way down...
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 8:36 AM on January 11, 2021 [33 favorites]
1) The archive Team looked at the Parler app to find public data (API) endpoints that allowed grabbing posts (i.e. getting posts and pictures like the app does, instead of as a webpage)
2) access said endpoints to grab everything posted to Parler on the 4th, 5th and 6th, including pictures and many videos
3) provide a mini software image (docker) so others could participate in grabbing files in time before Parler got shut down by Amazon
4) watch in amazement as Parler don't shut down said endpoints
5) archive and publish the retrieved public data
The thing about driver IDs is parler users posted those pictures *themselves*, publicly. There's also a TON of incriminating videos and posts, including metadata that wasn't removed, such as the GPS location tag your phone helpfully adds to each photo. This is what we call in the trade an ID 10 T error; or, problem exists in the wetware interface between chair and keyboard. Stuff posted publicly to the internet can be seen (and recorded) by people on the internet, which these Parler users are OUTRAGED to discover.
Theoretically this isn't illegal, as the information was publicly available, and accessible by anyone already - this is no different fundamentally than screenshotting an idiots tweet before it gets deleted. However, distributing it as an archive would then be covered by copyright; but fair use should apply in this case - it's exactly the same as the internet archive archiving other websites over time, the difference is they grabbed TB of data in a very short space of time. Whether such a public archive is usable in court is another matter entirely.
The 'trick' was getting the posts by sequential ID number, instead of the obfuscated one that showed on the website, so they could trivially get everything posted after a certain date.
I.e. I know a post that happened early on Jan 6th has a 'secret' ID of 56789, I therefore know if I get posts 56790, 56791, 56792 etc that they will have been posted after the first one. Repeat until you run out of storage space or you catch up with current date/time. Normally, you'd only know the obscured ID, i.e. the 'reference' post is ID 9b25faef8c, while the next two (by time) posts by other people are c59e96c1d0 and 23a200a9b3 - no way to retrieve posts by date from that! And yes, that's one reason why you don't use sequential ID numbers at all if possible, and you DEFINITELY don't make them publicly available. It's ID10Ts all the way down...
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 8:36 AM on January 11, 2021 [33 favorites]
Reading the scattered responses from Parlerites, I'm amused that anyone not in favor of overthrowing the government by force, and installing Trump as Dictator-for-Life is a "Left extremist."
posted by panglos at 8:45 AM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by panglos at 8:45 AM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
So if multiple people grabbed a collective 70TB off of Parler before AWS shut off the firehose, and let's assume there were many many copies being grabbed at the same time, what would their AWS outflow bill look like? Is Parler still on the hook for paying all of that?
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:52 AM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:52 AM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
posted by kaibutsu at 8:53 AM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 8:53 AM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
> Is Parler still on the hook for paying all of that?
ha ha ha oh my yes.
Add to the things Parler didn't do: Rate limiting.
posted by at by at 8:54 AM on January 11, 2021 [63 favorites]
ha ha ha oh my yes.
Add to the things Parler didn't do: Rate limiting.
posted by at by at 8:54 AM on January 11, 2021 [63 favorites]
I hear a lot about bad actors on Gab. Can it not be crushed like Parler?
posted by Countess Elena at 8:56 AM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 8:56 AM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
I guess I picked the wrong day to stop punching nazis.
The day law enforcement gets the names, addresses, and communications of all the Nazis ought to be the perfect day to hang up one's Nazi-punching gloves. We'll see.
posted by straight at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
The day law enforcement gets the names, addresses, and communications of all the Nazis ought to be the perfect day to hang up one's Nazi-punching gloves. We'll see.
posted by straight at 9:00 AM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
I.e. I know a post that happened early on Jan 6th has a 'secret' ID of 56789, I therefore know if I get posts 56790, 56791, 56792 etc that they will have been posted after the first one.
Note that this is the same level of technical sophistication required for the old MeFi Deleted Posts userscripts, with the qualitative difference that you are intended to be able to trivially locate deleted MeFi front page posts and also those posts aren't supposed to have fucking fascist content in the first place.
Hack the planet my dudes.
posted by cortex at 9:02 AM on January 11, 2021 [49 favorites]
Note that this is the same level of technical sophistication required for the old MeFi Deleted Posts userscripts, with the qualitative difference that you are intended to be able to trivially locate deleted MeFi front page posts and also those posts aren't supposed to have fucking fascist content in the first place.
Hack the planet my dudes.
posted by cortex at 9:02 AM on January 11, 2021 [49 favorites]
I'm guessing the first thing the FBI is doing is scraping the data for their own names.
posted by JackFlash at 9:04 AM on January 11, 2021 [41 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 9:04 AM on January 11, 2021 [41 favorites]
The thing about driver IDs is parler users posted those pictures *themselves*, publicly.
Astounding. These are people who think the government is plotting to inject them with tracking devices and lord knows what other conspiracy theories, but they were fine with posting their actual driver's license with their DOB and home address and photo just... out in the open.
posted by winna at 9:05 AM on January 11, 2021 [13 favorites]
Astounding. These are people who think the government is plotting to inject them with tracking devices and lord knows what other conspiracy theories, but they were fine with posting their actual driver's license with their DOB and home address and photo just... out in the open.
posted by winna at 9:05 AM on January 11, 2021 [13 favorites]
Law enforcement probably can't directly use the ArchiveProject data because how does a prosecutor prove the hackers haven't added some innocent person's name or added false incriminating evidence to an innocent user's data? But there ought to be all kinds of opportunities for the FBI to get most of this stuff directly.
posted by straight at 9:08 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by straight at 9:08 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
they were fine with posting their actual driver's license with their DOB and home address and photo just... out in the open
[PUNCH] Stop doxxing yourself!
[PUNCH] Stop doxxing yourself!
[PUNCH] Stop doxxing yourself!
posted by fedward at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2021 [13 favorites]
[PUNCH] Stop doxxing yourself!
[PUNCH] Stop doxxing yourself!
[PUNCH] Stop doxxing yourself!
posted by fedward at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2021 [13 favorites]
So, if I understand correctly:
Location
Time
Photo
Video
Text
Each corollary communication
Each message to another Parler user?
A copy of verified users' driver license
That is one helluva start to a contextual database of the insurrectionists crimes. Where they were when they filmed, who was adjacent to them, the videos/photos that those people took. A massive spiderweb of interactions.
The government officials who were on Parler better be thinking through their communications. It feels like a foregone conclusion that the NSA has this data now too.
The Mercers helped fund this start up. Wonder what kind of backend access they had all along?
posted by zerobyproxy at 9:10 AM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
Location
Time
Photo
Video
Text
Each corollary communication
Each message to another Parler user?
A copy of verified users' driver license
That is one helluva start to a contextual database of the insurrectionists crimes. Where they were when they filmed, who was adjacent to them, the videos/photos that those people took. A massive spiderweb of interactions.
The government officials who were on Parler better be thinking through their communications. It feels like a foregone conclusion that the NSA has this data now too.
The Mercers helped fund this start up. Wonder what kind of backend access they had all along?
posted by zerobyproxy at 9:10 AM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
I hear a lot about bad actors on Gab. Can it not be crushed like Parler?
Gab is apparently on a forked version of Mastodon, which has been talked about a lot here on Metafilter, so I'm guessing that someone who knows the technical details of Mastodon should be able to weigh in with the likelihood of that. I know that Mastodon is meant to be distributed, which I'm guessing should theoretically be harder to take down, but I don't know how Gab has implemented it or where they're hosting their Mastodon instances.
posted by clawsoon at 9:10 AM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
Gab is apparently on a forked version of Mastodon, which has been talked about a lot here on Metafilter, so I'm guessing that someone who knows the technical details of Mastodon should be able to weigh in with the likelihood of that. I know that Mastodon is meant to be distributed, which I'm guessing should theoretically be harder to take down, but I don't know how Gab has implemented it or where they're hosting their Mastodon instances.
posted by clawsoon at 9:10 AM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
> ...with the qualitative difference that you are intended to be able to trivially locate deleted MeFi front page posts and also those posts aren't supposed to have fucking fascist content in the first place.
There is also a matter of scale. Metafilter hasn't seen its ten millionth post/comment on the blue yet, and all posts are text-only (even old image posts, other than by the mods, are just text with an HTML link to an external resource). Many posts have more than 250 characters but fundamentally text is cheap in terms of data storage. Mefi's post archive could be scraped pretty quickly. Parler has billions of posts, which include videos and images. One day's archive of Parler will easily exceed two decades of Metafilter's.
posted by at by at 9:13 AM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
There is also a matter of scale. Metafilter hasn't seen its ten millionth post/comment on the blue yet, and all posts are text-only (even old image posts, other than by the mods, are just text with an HTML link to an external resource). Many posts have more than 250 characters but fundamentally text is cheap in terms of data storage. Mefi's post archive could be scraped pretty quickly. Parler has billions of posts, which include videos and images. One day's archive of Parler will easily exceed two decades of Metafilter's.
posted by at by at 9:13 AM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
> 3) provide a mini software image (docker) so others could participate in grabbing files in time before Parler got shut down by Amazon
It's a bit surreal that Parler's server in some AWS farm may have just gotten scraped and archived by patriots hastily renting servers in that same AWS farm.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:14 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
It's a bit surreal that Parler's server in some AWS farm may have just gotten scraped and archived by patriots hastily renting servers in that same AWS farm.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:14 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
So, even though Parler is (was!) Twitter for fascist ghouls, this hack is still super illegal, right?
Round up the miscreants, and let them each receive a pardon, a presidential medal of freedom, and a Nobel nomination letter in one bundle.
posted by ocschwar at 9:14 AM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
Round up the miscreants, and let them each receive a pardon, a presidential medal of freedom, and a Nobel nomination letter in one bundle.
posted by ocschwar at 9:14 AM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
White hats meet white hats.
posted by Nanukthedog at 9:18 AM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 9:18 AM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
That is one helluva start to a contextual database of the insurrectionists crimes.
So is there a guy in the basement of the FBI with a wall map of the United States, a box of push pins and a ball of red yarn?
posted by JackFlash at 9:20 AM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
So is there a guy in the basement of the FBI with a wall map of the United States, a box of push pins and a ball of red yarn?
posted by JackFlash at 9:20 AM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
Law enforcement probably can't directly use the ArchiveProject data because how does a prosecutor prove the hackers haven't added some innocent person's name or added false incriminating evidence to an innocent user's data?
Evidence does not have to be perfect to be admissible. In federal court, at least, the basic rule is (paraphrasing) "evidence that tends to prove the truth or falsity of an issue in the case is admissible by default unless its evidentiary value is substantially outweighed by the potential for the evidence to be misleading or confusing." That's an extremely rough summary of Rules 401, 402, and 403.
In the case of the unofficial Parler records, the evidence would need to be authenticated under Rule 901 by, for example, an expert's comparison with other authenticated specimens ("yep, this looks exactly like you'd expect Parler data to look"), comparing distinctive characteristics ("yep, this is exactly the way this person talks on other forums"), or the admission of a witness ("yeah, that was me" or "yeah, I saw when he posted that on Parler").
Obviously it's much better to use a proper copy of the data, which would be self-authenticating under Rule 902(14), but if all the prosecutor can get is the unofficial data (e.g. because Parler tries to delete everything) then it could almost certainly get admitted. The defense would probably still try to argue that it had been faked, but it's a pretty hard argument to make that activists would download 70 thousand gigabytes of legitimate data and then sneak in a few faked bits just to target this particular defendant.
posted by jedicus at 9:20 AM on January 11, 2021 [23 favorites]
Evidence does not have to be perfect to be admissible. In federal court, at least, the basic rule is (paraphrasing) "evidence that tends to prove the truth or falsity of an issue in the case is admissible by default unless its evidentiary value is substantially outweighed by the potential for the evidence to be misleading or confusing." That's an extremely rough summary of Rules 401, 402, and 403.
In the case of the unofficial Parler records, the evidence would need to be authenticated under Rule 901 by, for example, an expert's comparison with other authenticated specimens ("yep, this looks exactly like you'd expect Parler data to look"), comparing distinctive characteristics ("yep, this is exactly the way this person talks on other forums"), or the admission of a witness ("yeah, that was me" or "yeah, I saw when he posted that on Parler").
Obviously it's much better to use a proper copy of the data, which would be self-authenticating under Rule 902(14), but if all the prosecutor can get is the unofficial data (e.g. because Parler tries to delete everything) then it could almost certainly get admitted. The defense would probably still try to argue that it had been faked, but it's a pretty hard argument to make that activists would download 70 thousand gigabytes of legitimate data and then sneak in a few faked bits just to target this particular defendant.
posted by jedicus at 9:20 AM on January 11, 2021 [23 favorites]
> One day's archive of Parler will easily exceed two decades of Metafilter's.
2001:
Metafilter: "We have cameras."
Two decades later:
Parler: "We really shouldn't have used all those cameras when we attacked the Capitol Building and murdered that cop with a fire extinguisher."
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:22 AM on January 11, 2021 [12 favorites]
2001:
Metafilter: "We have cameras."
Two decades later:
Parler: "We really shouldn't have used all those cameras when we attacked the Capitol Building and murdered that cop with a fire extinguisher."
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:22 AM on January 11, 2021 [12 favorites]
I hear a lot about bad actors on Gab. Can it not be crushed like Parler?
Sorry, but no. From what I know of the people involved, they are nowhere near that incompetent.
posted by ocschwar at 9:22 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Sorry, but no. From what I know of the people involved, they are nowhere near that incompetent.
posted by ocschwar at 9:22 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
if all the prosecutor can get is the unofficial data (e.g. because Parler tries to delete everything) then it could almost certainly get admitted.
My understanding as well is that any attempt at destroying the evidence on the part of Parler usually makes the judge more inclined to allow the unofficial dataset.
posted by tclark at 9:23 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
My understanding as well is that any attempt at destroying the evidence on the part of Parler usually makes the judge more inclined to allow the unofficial dataset.
posted by tclark at 9:23 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
So is there a guy in the basement of the FBI with a wall map of the United States, a box of push pins and a ball of red yarn?
I'm in the government. I'd say it's more likely an out-of-date unsupported version of corel draw on a computer that's so slow you can see the mouse cursor lag, that gets printed onto paper every day and somehow manages to include a fax machine.
posted by ctmf at 9:31 AM on January 11, 2021 [39 favorites]
I'm in the government. I'd say it's more likely an out-of-date unsupported version of corel draw on a computer that's so slow you can see the mouse cursor lag, that gets printed onto paper every day and somehow manages to include a fax machine.
posted by ctmf at 9:31 AM on January 11, 2021 [39 favorites]
> In the case of the unofficial Parler records, the evidence would need to be authenticated under Rule 901 by, for example, an expert's comparison with other authenticated specimens ("yep, this looks exactly like you'd expect Parler data to look"), comparing distinctive characteristics ("yep, this is exactly the way this person talks on other forums"), or the admission of a witness ("yeah, that was me" or "yeah, I saw when he posted that on Parler").
Also the EXIF data ought to uniquely fingerprint their phone, along with the GPS data.
I'm wondering if there's a fruit of the poisonous tree argument where some of it isn't admissible in court because it was scraped in such a way that's considered hacking.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:31 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also the EXIF data ought to uniquely fingerprint their phone, along with the GPS data.
I'm wondering if there's a fruit of the poisonous tree argument where some of it isn't admissible in court because it was scraped in such a way that's considered hacking.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:31 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Looks like Gab is hosted by Epik, which also provides services to The Daily Stormer and 8chan. Epik seems to be saying very loudly that they haven't heard from Parler yet, in a way that sounds to my naive ears like "give us a call, Parler."
posted by clawsoon at 9:32 AM on January 11, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 9:32 AM on January 11, 2021 [5 favorites]
Welcome to my parlor, said the spider to the fly. It's the prettiest little parlor that you ever did spy.
posted by Oyéah at 9:33 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 9:33 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
If metadata from a Parler-posted image puts a suspect in the geographical zone of a crime, and then it can be matched up with footage from Capital Building cameras and/or allowed photos from the press/bystanders, then you have a name you can start questioning if they were on the scene. There's no tree to be poisoned yet at that point, right?
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:35 AM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:35 AM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
One day's archive of Parler will easily exceed two decades of Metafilter's.
This is reflective of some serious trouble.
posted by Oyéah at 9:35 AM on January 11, 2021 [13 favorites]
This is reflective of some serious trouble.
posted by Oyéah at 9:35 AM on January 11, 2021 [13 favorites]
I'm wondering if there's a fruit of the poisonous tree argument where some of it isn't admissible in court because it was scraped in such a way that's considered hacking.
The 4th Amendment exclusionary rule only applies to evidence obtained by the government or its agents. Prosecutors are generally allowed to use evidence obtained illegally by private citizens.
Texas has its own state law that prohibits the use of such evidence in Texas state courts, but Texas is very much in the minority in that regard.
posted by jedicus at 9:36 AM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
The 4th Amendment exclusionary rule only applies to evidence obtained by the government or its agents. Prosecutors are generally allowed to use evidence obtained illegally by private citizens.
Texas has its own state law that prohibits the use of such evidence in Texas state courts, but Texas is very much in the minority in that regard.
posted by jedicus at 9:36 AM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
So is there a guy in the basement of the FBI with a wall map of the United States, a box of push pins and a ball of red yarn?
The NSA is full of people who can take this stuff and process it into useful sorted data where you can explore relationships. (I'm remembering some interview with Snowden where he talked about how easy it was to take a email corpus and turn it into something useful.)
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:36 AM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
The NSA is full of people who can take this stuff and process it into useful sorted data where you can explore relationships. (I'm remembering some interview with Snowden where he talked about how easy it was to take a email corpus and turn it into something useful.)
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:36 AM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
The NSA is full of people who can take this stuff and process it into useful sorted data where you can explore relationships.
But the NSA is legally not allowed to use this information gathered on US citizens against US citizens in US Court.
Because the NSA is not supposed to be targeting citizens period (we know it does anyway, sure), they are supposed to be for spying on other countries. They are explicitly disallowed from sending that information to agencies for the purpose of prosecuting US citizens.
The likelihood of the NSA helping out here is as likely as they helped out proving that Russia hacked the DNC.
Meaning the best we'll get is a leak from someone trying to do the right thing and they will be jailed for most of their life for it.
Like, did everyone forget the Snowden leaks were about how they (the NSA) were spying on Americans when they weren't supposed to?
posted by deadaluspark at 9:39 AM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
But the NSA is legally not allowed to use this information gathered on US citizens against US citizens in US Court.
Because the NSA is not supposed to be targeting citizens period (we know it does anyway, sure), they are supposed to be for spying on other countries. They are explicitly disallowed from sending that information to agencies for the purpose of prosecuting US citizens.
The likelihood of the NSA helping out here is as likely as they helped out proving that Russia hacked the DNC.
Meaning the best we'll get is a leak from someone trying to do the right thing and they will be jailed for most of their life for it.
Like, did everyone forget the Snowden leaks were about how they (the NSA) were spying on Americans when they weren't supposed to?
posted by deadaluspark at 9:39 AM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
The one thing about this situation that I'm very much not gleeful about: Fifteen years ago, you could host all the horrible Nazis on the Internet on a self-hosted discussion site. Now it's so incredibly popular that that they generate terabytes of content in a couple of years and have scaling issues which require the services of Amazon.
posted by clawsoon at 9:39 AM on January 11, 2021 [21 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 9:39 AM on January 11, 2021 [21 favorites]
Speaking of Snowden, and sorry if this is off topic, but I predict that if Trump escapes to Russia, Snowden will leave Russia and come home.
posted by hypnogogue at 9:40 AM on January 11, 2021
posted by hypnogogue at 9:40 AM on January 11, 2021
one large camera photo is larger than the entirety of the bible. As others mentioned in that quote that were left out of the context. Metafilter is all text, and text doesn't occupy a lot of data.
One day's archive of Parler will easily exceed two decades of Metafilter's.
This is reflective of some serious trouble.
I don't want to minimize the disturbing potential for sedition within Parler, but let's actually recognize when we're talking about apples and oranges.
posted by bl1nk at 9:41 AM on January 11, 2021 [42 favorites]
Speaking of Snowden, and sorry if this is off topic, but I predict that if Trump escapes to Russia, Snowden will leave Russia and come home.
This completely ignores that it was the Obama administration who went to great lengths to nail Snowden to the wall. Including bringing down a foreign Presidents plane in a third-party country to search the plane for Snowden. If you think Biden is that much different than Obama, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Way more likely that you'd see Assange go home under those circumstances.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:44 AM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
This completely ignores that it was the Obama administration who went to great lengths to nail Snowden to the wall. Including bringing down a foreign Presidents plane in a third-party country to search the plane for Snowden. If you think Biden is that much different than Obama, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Way more likely that you'd see Assange go home under those circumstances.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:44 AM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
But the NSA is legally not allowed to use this information gathered on US Citizens against US Citizens in US Court.
Sure, but there's got to be other chunks of our security apparatus that have experience data mining stuff like this.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:47 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Sure, but there's got to be other chunks of our security apparatus that have experience data mining stuff like this.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:47 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
You mean the security apparatus that has been slowly stuffed to the gills with white supremacists over the course of 60 years?
Excuse me if I'm not placing my bets on the people who thought asking for cops to stop killing people was asking too much.
They found a black protestor by her Etsy shirt in a week, but they're losing their minds trying to find dudes who committed crimes with no masks on and livestreaming it.
Just, can we cut this bullshit for real?
They know exactly what the fuck they're doing.
Some of those who work forces etc etc etc
posted by deadaluspark at 9:48 AM on January 11, 2021 [29 favorites]
Excuse me if I'm not placing my bets on the people who thought asking for cops to stop killing people was asking too much.
They found a black protestor by her Etsy shirt in a week, but they're losing their minds trying to find dudes who committed crimes with no masks on and livestreaming it.
Just, can we cut this bullshit for real?
They know exactly what the fuck they're doing.
Some of those who work forces etc etc etc
posted by deadaluspark at 9:48 AM on January 11, 2021 [29 favorites]
> This is reflective of some serious trouble.
Not quite certain what you mean by that. On the one hand, yes, it represents a lot of self-exposure at its worst. But as far as data scraping is concerned, the volume is really only reflective of the effort necessary to download it.
> ArchiveTeam managed to find and download 70 terabytes of publically available data.
I've been curious about this: what timespan does 70 terabytes represent? From Parler's inception, just from the past week, or somewhere in between?
posted by at by at 9:48 AM on January 11, 2021
Not quite certain what you mean by that. On the one hand, yes, it represents a lot of self-exposure at its worst. But as far as data scraping is concerned, the volume is really only reflective of the effort necessary to download it.
> ArchiveTeam managed to find and download 70 terabytes of publically available data.
I've been curious about this: what timespan does 70 terabytes represent? From Parler's inception, just from the past week, or somewhere in between?
posted by at by at 9:48 AM on January 11, 2021
One thing I'm thinking about: getting a load of idiots to upload their personal data to an unsafe site is probably the feature, not a bug.
posted by mumimor at 9:50 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by mumimor at 9:50 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
The day law enforcement gets the names, addresses, and communications of all the Nazis ought to be the perfect day to hang up one's Nazi-punching gloves. We'll see.
Law enforcement will not save us because Parler is basically an after-hours intranet for them.
posted by Ouverture at 9:51 AM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
Law enforcement will not save us because Parler is basically an after-hours intranet for them.
posted by Ouverture at 9:51 AM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
Law enforcement will not save us because Parler is basically an after-hours intranet for them.
"Who watches the Watchmen?"
posted by deadaluspark at 9:51 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
"Who watches the Watchmen?"
posted by deadaluspark at 9:51 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
> I'm wondering if there's a fruit of the poisonous tree argument where some of it isn't admissible in court because it was scraped in such a way that's considered hacking.
Probably irrelevant. As remarked upthread by several people, AWS is very probably sitting on the files and waiting for the FBI's subpoena.
posted by at by at 9:52 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Probably irrelevant. As remarked upthread by several people, AWS is very probably sitting on the files and waiting for the FBI's subpoena.
posted by at by at 9:52 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Law enforcement will not save us because Parler is basically an after-hours intranet for them.
That's another advantage of the unofficial copy: it puts it all out in the public eye, allowing public pressure on the employers and social networks of the insurrectionists who aren't charged.
posted by jedicus at 9:55 AM on January 11, 2021 [21 favorites]
That's another advantage of the unofficial copy: it puts it all out in the public eye, allowing public pressure on the employers and social networks of the insurrectionists who aren't charged.
posted by jedicus at 9:55 AM on January 11, 2021 [21 favorites]
It also puts pressure on the cops to act. When someone committing a crime on video has been clearly ID'ed, and that fact is in the public eye, it's harder for the cops to say "we just can't find a suspect! we have no idea who this person could have been!"
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:57 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:57 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
allowing public pressure on the employers and social networks of the insurrectionists who aren't charged.
You've got heads of Police Unions in this the country GOING ON RECORD PUBLICLY as supporting the riots.
They don't give one good god damn anymore if people know they are white supremacists.
It's like how Zizek talks about major leaks like stuff from Wikileaks in the early 2000's or from Ed Snowden more recently: In the modern world, this information is revealed, yet almost nothing changes. The power apparatus keeps on chugging, regardless of how badly they've been vilified. The Catholic Church is another example. They just keep shuffling around pedophile priests.
The information being out there means nothing if it isn't acted on, and more often than not, things just don't get acted on. See: America's problems with gun crime, COVID, and so on. The information being in our faces DOES NOT mean someone will do something about it. More likely you will get "thoughts and prayers."
Police departments headed by white supremacists will not back down. They have the power and they know it.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:59 AM on January 11, 2021 [30 favorites]
You've got heads of Police Unions in this the country GOING ON RECORD PUBLICLY as supporting the riots.
They don't give one good god damn anymore if people know they are white supremacists.
It's like how Zizek talks about major leaks like stuff from Wikileaks in the early 2000's or from Ed Snowden more recently: In the modern world, this information is revealed, yet almost nothing changes. The power apparatus keeps on chugging, regardless of how badly they've been vilified. The Catholic Church is another example. They just keep shuffling around pedophile priests.
The information being out there means nothing if it isn't acted on, and more often than not, things just don't get acted on. See: America's problems with gun crime, COVID, and so on. The information being in our faces DOES NOT mean someone will do something about it. More likely you will get "thoughts and prayers."
Police departments headed by white supremacists will not back down. They have the power and they know it.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:59 AM on January 11, 2021 [30 favorites]
And the ACLU is going "so open minded their brain fell out" over AWS giving Parler the boot. The "hate speech is the price of free speech" argument is getting weaker, and needs to stop getting trotted out.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:01 AM on January 11, 2021 [22 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:01 AM on January 11, 2021 [22 favorites]
One day's archive of Parler will easily exceed two decades of Metafilter's.
This is reflective of some serious trouble.
It's also reflective of the insurmountable for most barrier of ....$5.
posted by srboisvert at 10:01 AM on January 11, 2021 [20 favorites]
This is reflective of some serious trouble.
It's also reflective of the insurmountable for most barrier of ....$5.
posted by srboisvert at 10:01 AM on January 11, 2021 [20 favorites]
so we're getting closer to the day when the destination of "where we go one, we go all" turns out to be ... jail.
posted by chavenet at 10:03 AM on January 11, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 10:03 AM on January 11, 2021 [17 favorites]
Seriously though, are we really going to count on the same groups that spent all summer responding to peacefully being asked to stop killing people by beating the living shit out of anyone and everyone to fucking police their own?
They lied through their teeth to cover for each other at EVERY opportunity.
But you're going to trust that they will do something about the white supremacists in their ranks.
Really??
posted by deadaluspark at 10:08 AM on January 11, 2021 [30 favorites]
They lied through their teeth to cover for each other at EVERY opportunity.
But you're going to trust that they will do something about the white supremacists in their ranks.
Really??
posted by deadaluspark at 10:08 AM on January 11, 2021 [30 favorites]
Snowden
I didn't mean to suggest that he'd be pardoned. I predicted simply that Snowden would come home without any preconditions and take his punishment rather than be associated with Trump. I'll let this derail drop now.
posted by hypnogogue at 10:15 AM on January 11, 2021
I didn't mean to suggest that he'd be pardoned. I predicted simply that Snowden would come home without any preconditions and take his punishment rather than be associated with Trump. I'll let this derail drop now.
posted by hypnogogue at 10:15 AM on January 11, 2021
I predicted simply that Snowden would come home without any preconditions and take his punishment rather than be associated with Trump.
That ship sailed when he came to Trumps defense when Trump got deplatformed. He's tied to Trump at the hip now, whether he likes it or not.
posted by deadaluspark at 10:17 AM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
That ship sailed when he came to Trumps defense when Trump got deplatformed. He's tied to Trump at the hip now, whether he likes it or not.
posted by deadaluspark at 10:17 AM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
It also puts pressure on the cops to act. When someone committing a crime on video has been clearly ID'ed, and that fact is in the public eye, it's harder for the cops to say "we just can't find a suspect! we have no idea who this person could have been!"
I want to be hopeful, but I can't think of a time this expectation was ever sincerely articulated by a person of color.
posted by Ouverture at 10:33 AM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
I want to be hopeful, but I can't think of a time this expectation was ever sincerely articulated by a person of color.
posted by Ouverture at 10:33 AM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
>"hate speech is the price of free speech" argument is getting weaker
corollary to Gresham's Law, yes
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:36 AM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
corollary to Gresham's Law, yes
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:36 AM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
> I'm wondering if there's a fruit of the poisonous tree argument
One risk I see if admin accounts were maliciously gained is that defendants could perhaps plausibly (if deceitfully) claim "I didn't write that!"
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
One risk I see if admin accounts were maliciously gained is that defendants could perhaps plausibly (if deceitfully) claim "I didn't write that!"
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:38 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's also reflective of the insurmountable for most barrier of ....$5.
I would pay $50 to join a website before I'd send them a picture of my driver's license.
posted by TedW at 10:40 AM on January 11, 2021 [40 favorites]
I would pay $50 to join a website before I'd send them a picture of my driver's license.
posted by TedW at 10:40 AM on January 11, 2021 [40 favorites]
NPR: Parler, the messaging app favored by far-right activists, has filed a lawsuit against Amazon Web Services alleging anti-trust and breach of contract. The company is seeking a temporary restraining order to prevent Amazon from removing Parler from its servers.
Discovery on this one is gonna be lit.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:51 AM on January 11, 2021 [28 favorites]
Discovery on this one is gonna be lit.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:51 AM on January 11, 2021 [28 favorites]
It won't even make it to discovery. It will be thrown out with prejudice because you can't throw a stone on the internet without hitting a hosting provider.
Someone upthread made it clear that the group that provides hosting for Gab, the Daily Stormer, and 8chan was making comments about wanting to hear from Parler, which alone proves that Amazon isn't a monopoly. They literally have other hosting providers offering services.
This is just to keep their name in the media and PR spin. This will fail horrifically because trying to prove that AWS is a monopoly on hosting providers is one of the biggest uphill battles you could ask for. All Amazon has to do is point their finger at Microsoft Azure and it's over.
EDIT: Also on preview, someone else pointed out they recently lost their former lawyers as well, so the current lawyer behind this is, well, a joke.
posted by deadaluspark at 10:57 AM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
Someone upthread made it clear that the group that provides hosting for Gab, the Daily Stormer, and 8chan was making comments about wanting to hear from Parler, which alone proves that Amazon isn't a monopoly. They literally have other hosting providers offering services.
This is just to keep their name in the media and PR spin. This will fail horrifically because trying to prove that AWS is a monopoly on hosting providers is one of the biggest uphill battles you could ask for. All Amazon has to do is point their finger at Microsoft Azure and it's over.
EDIT: Also on preview, someone else pointed out they recently lost their former lawyers as well, so the current lawyer behind this is, well, a joke.
posted by deadaluspark at 10:57 AM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
Parler, the messaging app favored by far-right activists, has filed a lawsuit against Amazon Web Services alleging anti-trust and breach of contract. The company is seeking a temporary restraining order to prevent Amazon from removing Parler from its servers.
Parler has, as its champion in this life-and-death struggle, retained the services of *checks notes* a lawyer who appears to be a small solo practitioner who does not specialize in emergency anti-trust litigation.
posted by deeker at 10:58 AM on January 11, 2021 [17 favorites]
Parler has, as its champion in this life-and-death struggle, retained the services of *checks notes* a lawyer who appears to be a small solo practitioner who does not specialize in emergency anti-trust litigation.
posted by deeker at 10:58 AM on January 11, 2021 [17 favorites]
The argument for protecting hate speech is based on a slippery slope fallacy and does not appear to be born out by the observational data when it is implemented. Observational data suggests that protecting hate speech seems to have the effect to drowning out other voices and generating more hate.
posted by interogative mood at 10:59 AM on January 11, 2021 [29 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 10:59 AM on January 11, 2021 [29 favorites]
Parler has, as its champion in this life-and-death struggle, retained the services of *checks notes* a lawyer who appears to be a small solo practitioner who does not specialize in emergency anti-trust litigation.
I hope the dear little creature gets a few billable hours out of this before Amazon's war machine nukes him from orbit. At least as a solo practitioner he doesn't have to worry about his partners expelling him.
----------
regarding tolerating hate speech:
Pictoline's comic of the same
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:16 AM on January 11, 2021 [14 favorites]
I hope the dear little creature gets a few billable hours out of this before Amazon's war machine nukes him from orbit. At least as a solo practitioner he doesn't have to worry about his partners expelling him.
----------
regarding tolerating hate speech:
The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.
Paradox of tolerance - Wikipedia
Pictoline's comic of the same
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:16 AM on January 11, 2021 [14 favorites]
The argument for protecting hate speech is based on a slippery slope fallacy and does not appear to be born out by the observational data when it is implemented. Observational data suggests that protecting hate speech seems to have the effect to drowning out other voices and generating more hate.
I'm sure other countries have similar language, but I think that the wording in the Canadian constitution isn't bad:
posted by clawsoon at 11:21 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
I'm sure other countries have similar language, but I think that the wording in the Canadian constitution isn't bad:
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.Is this something that threatens to destroy our free and democratic society if it gets out of control? If yes, then put some reasonably justifiable limits on it.
posted by clawsoon at 11:21 AM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
Matze sounds increasingly like a useful idiot which the Russians have decided has outlasted his utility.
posted by at by at 11:22 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by at by at 11:22 AM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm sure other countries have similar language, but I think that the wording in the Canadian constitution isn't bad:
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.
Is this something that threatens to destroy our free and democratic society if it gets out of control? If yes, then put some reasonably justifiable limits on it.
It's so bizarre to me that this is so frequently contrasted with the U.S. constitution. The U.S. constitution doesn't have a similar explicit statement, but it's clearly true that first amendment rights are subject to limits (justifiable in a free and democratic society) in the U.S. I could trot out the classic examples (yelling fire, slander, libel, sedition, death threats, obscenity, fraud (which is basically "lying to get money")). I'm not a legal scholar so i can't look these things up, but I'm certain I've even see U.S. courts apply tests that look very similar (to my non-legal scholar eyes) to the Oakes test in Canadian law.
The question is not whether first amendment rights should be limited. Clearly they should be and clearly they are. The question is about specfiic limits, so anyone screaming "first amendment" is throwing out a red herring. Don't tell me you can't interfere with somoene's first amendment rights, tell me why the argument for this particular interference doesn't not hold. (I'm phrasing that last bit awkwardly, what I mean to make clear is that I think the burden is obviously on the government to justify the limitation not those opposed to invalidate it).
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:45 AM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.
Is this something that threatens to destroy our free and democratic society if it gets out of control? If yes, then put some reasonably justifiable limits on it.
It's so bizarre to me that this is so frequently contrasted with the U.S. constitution. The U.S. constitution doesn't have a similar explicit statement, but it's clearly true that first amendment rights are subject to limits (justifiable in a free and democratic society) in the U.S. I could trot out the classic examples (yelling fire, slander, libel, sedition, death threats, obscenity, fraud (which is basically "lying to get money")). I'm not a legal scholar so i can't look these things up, but I'm certain I've even see U.S. courts apply tests that look very similar (to my non-legal scholar eyes) to the Oakes test in Canadian law.
The question is not whether first amendment rights should be limited. Clearly they should be and clearly they are. The question is about specfiic limits, so anyone screaming "first amendment" is throwing out a red herring. Don't tell me you can't interfere with somoene's first amendment rights, tell me why the argument for this particular interference doesn't not hold. (I'm phrasing that last bit awkwardly, what I mean to make clear is that I think the burden is obviously on the government to justify the limitation not those opposed to invalidate it).
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:45 AM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.
It's so bizarre to me that this is so frequently contrasted with the U.S. constitution.
Please be careful here: the free speech rights allowed under the Canadian Charter and under the U.S. Constitution are fundamentally different and these differences have been borne out by the courts in the two countries. Hate speech (by various legal definitions) that is protected in the U.S. is illegal in Canada.
posted by heatherlogan at 11:51 AM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
It's so bizarre to me that this is so frequently contrasted with the U.S. constitution.
Please be careful here: the free speech rights allowed under the Canadian Charter and under the U.S. Constitution are fundamentally different and these differences have been borne out by the courts in the two countries. Hate speech (by various legal definitions) that is protected in the U.S. is illegal in Canada.
posted by heatherlogan at 11:51 AM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
Heather: Yes of course they're different. my point is that the trope so often trotted out "The Canadian constitution allows limits on free speach while the U.S. consitution does not," often supported by pointing the S1 of the charter and the non-existence of a similar U.S. section, is just plain false. Obviously the concept of "Well, some limits are reasonable and necessary" exists in both systems, though which specific limits are considered reasonable and necessary may not be the same.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:55 AM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:55 AM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
crash override@donk_enby·14h----------------------------------------------------
good night and thank you for keeping those servers up as long as you did :)
Quote Tweetcrash override@donk_enby · Jan 9
I'd like to thank Jared for inspiring me to do all the research on Parler, accidentally leading me down a path of helping now 3 academic research projects on online disinformation, finding multiple vulns and passing them onto more capable people by putting this in his bio
(Show this thread)
> Further, Parler was not scrubbing the metadata off media. When you upload images and video to Twitter, Facebook, and most other major sites, the camera metadata within the media is wiped as a security measure. Since Parler wasn't, it's possible to know with precision when and where everybody's videos and photos were taken (thanks to GPS), and usually even more information.
Here @donk_enby provides a screenshot of a video's metadata with GPS coordinates:
https://twitter.com/donk_enby/status/1348294151712944128
----------------------------------------------------
There's a decent gizmodo article about it that lays it out well, but if you've skimmed her tweets there's not really anything new.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:00 PM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
The question is not whether first amendment rights should be limited. Clearly they should be and clearly they are.
The thing is that in the US, there has been a decades long campaign to argue that those limits should be as minimal as possible, and that this is taught to Americans at every level of education. This has led to a number of ridiculous and illiberal results (case in point: famed free speech litigator Floyd Abrams is currently arguing that facial recognition is protected by the First Amendment, which if successful would kneecap attempts to regulate or ban the technology.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:05 PM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
The thing is that in the US, there has been a decades long campaign to argue that those limits should be as minimal as possible, and that this is taught to Americans at every level of education. This has led to a number of ridiculous and illiberal results (case in point: famed free speech litigator Floyd Abrams is currently arguing that facial recognition is protected by the First Amendment, which if successful would kneecap attempts to regulate or ban the technology.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:05 PM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
Three Generations of a Hackneyed Apologia for Censorship Are Enough
tl;dr:
Free Speech Pro-Tip: You Can Yell Fire In A Crowded Theatre
Not saying that you should do that, nor that we shouldn't censor Parler.
posted by hypnogogue at 12:06 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
tl;dr:
Free Speech Pro-Tip: You Can Yell Fire In A Crowded Theatre
Not saying that you should do that, nor that we shouldn't censor Parler.
posted by hypnogogue at 12:06 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'll give Ken White this - unlike a lot of his free speech "absolutist" fellow travelers, he will honestly say that hate speech is the price of free speech.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:08 PM on January 11, 2021
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:08 PM on January 11, 2021
Looks like Parler isn't the only one that got hacked.
https://www.state.gov/biographies/donald-j-trump/
https://www.state.gov/biographies/michael-r-pence/
posted by cazoo at 12:19 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
https://www.state.gov/biographies/donald-j-trump/
https://www.state.gov/biographies/michael-r-pence/
posted by cazoo at 12:19 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
Not disagreeing with you. But it's interesting that the "Fire" trope is nowadays usually trotted out in defense of censorship, when it was first used to jail a man for distributing pamphlets that criticized conscription.
posted by hypnogogue at 12:19 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by hypnogogue at 12:19 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
Those "biographies" look like new pages; they don't show up in the Wayback Machine.
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.state.gov/biographies/donald-j-trump/
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.state.gov/biographies/michael-r-pence/
posted by caphector at 12:23 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.state.gov/biographies/donald-j-trump/
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.state.gov/biographies/michael-r-pence/
posted by caphector at 12:23 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
So confused, especially after the debunking. Can someone please explain this to me, too? Was Parler hacked or did someone just download 70 TB ofthe publically available posts?
posted by Omnomnom at 12:24 PM on January 11, 2021
posted by Omnomnom at 12:24 PM on January 11, 2021
cazoo: "https://www.state.gov/biographies/michael-r-pence/"
Wait so who's the president?!
posted by chavenet at 12:28 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Wait so who's the president?!
posted by chavenet at 12:28 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
So confused, especially after the debunking. Can someone please explain this to me, too? Was Parler hacked or did someone just download 70 TB ofthe publically available posts?
Sounds like it's the latter. But Parler effed up by not scrubbing location information from users' uploaded images and videos. They were lazy about other things, but for me, that's the big thing.*
*I could be way wrong here, though
posted by NoMich at 12:29 PM on January 11, 2021
Sounds like it's the latter. But Parler effed up by not scrubbing location information from users' uploaded images and videos. They were lazy about other things, but for me, that's the big thing.*
*I could be way wrong here, though
posted by NoMich at 12:29 PM on January 11, 2021
Wait so who's the president?!
Following the chain of succession, it's you
posted by NoMich at 12:30 PM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
Following the chain of succession, it's you
posted by NoMich at 12:30 PM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
NoMich: "Following the chain of succession, it's you"
Seems legit. I was Time Magazine's person of the year once, too.
posted by chavenet at 12:31 PM on January 11, 2021 [45 favorites]
Seems legit. I was Time Magazine's person of the year once, too.
posted by chavenet at 12:31 PM on January 11, 2021 [45 favorites]
The sequential numbers trick is how I looked up more adult content twenty years ago. Good times.
posted by Jacen at 12:44 PM on January 11, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 12:44 PM on January 11, 2021 [17 favorites]
I think in days of olde it was called "fuskering" wasn't it? Or was that just for images? People used to use tricks like that to look through photo archives on garbage sites like photobucket, which would store the images on their servers using the original filenames (like img-XXXX.jpg).
posted by maxwelton at 12:51 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by maxwelton at 12:51 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Sounds like it's the latter. But Parler effed up by not scrubbing location information from users' uploaded images and videos. They were lazy about other things, but for me, that's the big thing.*
I think they started by seeing how the app on the phone worked, and then coded a program to interact with Parler's server to pull down publicly facing stuff using the sequential-numbering trick (which the app can do but browsers can't), along with "soft-deleted" stuff that had been tagged with a "deleted" flag but was kept on the server. The images and video included metadata, so people will be able to grind through it and pull stuff from the rally and attack.
I think @donk_enby argued somewhere that this act of archiving public information was precisely the opposite of censoring.
Beyond that, the research/hacking team don't have email and phone information. (The FBI does, as soon as the warrant clears.)
I think they started by seeing how the app on the phone worked, and then coded a program to interact with Parler's server to pull down publicly facing stuff using the sequential-numbering trick (which the app can do but browsers can't), along with "soft-deleted" stuff that had been tagged with a "deleted" flag but was kept on the server. The images and video included metadata, so people will be able to grind through it and pull stuff from the rally and attack.
I think @donk_enby argued somewhere that this act of archiving public information was precisely the opposite of censoring.
Beyond that, the research/hacking team don't have email and phone information. (The FBI does, as soon as the warrant clears.)
crash override@donk_enby·4hposted by sebastienbailard at 12:54 PM on January 11, 2021 [5 favorites]
since a lot of people seem confused about this detail and there is a bullshit reddit post going around:
only things that were available publicly via the web were archived. i don't have you e-mail address, phone or credit card number. unless you posted it yourself on parler.
The sequential numbers trick is how I looked up more adult content twenty years ago. Good times.
The sequential numbers trick is how I created this account while signups were closed.
posted by Ryvar at 1:04 PM on January 11, 2021 [29 favorites]
The sequential numbers trick is how I created this account while signups were closed.
posted by Ryvar at 1:04 PM on January 11, 2021 [29 favorites]
Good thing Trump hasn't done anything to piss Jeff Bezos off.
posted by benzenedream at 1:15 PM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 1:15 PM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
Haven't you all ever been bored and put DSC_0001.JPG, DSC_0002.JPG, IMG_0001.jpg, IMG_0002.jpg etc etc into a search engine?
There's hours of fun right there let me tell ya.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:34 PM on January 11, 2021 [26 favorites]
There's hours of fun right there let me tell ya.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:34 PM on January 11, 2021 [26 favorites]
If you really want a wild ride through random image land, turn off the family filter in your search engine.
posted by Pouteria at 1:57 PM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Pouteria at 1:57 PM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
I love that, at one point, the datadump's project on archive.org was called 'Ne Parle Pas'.
posted by signal at 2:07 PM on January 11, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by signal at 2:07 PM on January 11, 2021 [23 favorites]
The thinkpieces on how dangerous the removal of Parler have begun.
I am so very fucking tired of every time we as a society reject a purveyor of hate, we get a chorus saying that no, the real danger is telling the hateful to go fuck off because they've flung themselves face first down the slippery slope and are confused that the rest of us aren't joining them. We saw this after Christchurch, and we're seeing it here. And the arguments haven't gotten any more coherent.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:52 PM on January 11, 2021 [49 favorites]
I am so very fucking tired of every time we as a society reject a purveyor of hate, we get a chorus saying that no, the real danger is telling the hateful to go fuck off because they've flung themselves face first down the slippery slope and are confused that the rest of us aren't joining them. We saw this after Christchurch, and we're seeing it here. And the arguments haven't gotten any more coherent.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:52 PM on January 11, 2021 [49 favorites]
I am so very fucking tired of every time we as a society reject a purveyor of hate, we get a chorus saying that no, the real danger is telling the hateful to go fuck off because they've flung themselves face first down the slippery slope and are confused that the rest of us aren't joining them.
I know. I became very tired during the cartoon controversy because the whole "freedom of speech" blathering was so obviously just right-wing demagoguery, and I hated seeing my friends falling for it - nearly each and every one of them. I would go out, sometimes in public, and remind people what freedom of speech is actually about, and how it is the direct opposite of what actually happened, and still even smart people were like jellyfish, floating with the currents towards evermore hate. Maybe this whole Trump thing will make some people regain their senses, but I'm not hopeful.
posted by mumimor at 3:02 PM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
I know. I became very tired during the cartoon controversy because the whole "freedom of speech" blathering was so obviously just right-wing demagoguery, and I hated seeing my friends falling for it - nearly each and every one of them. I would go out, sometimes in public, and remind people what freedom of speech is actually about, and how it is the direct opposite of what actually happened, and still even smart people were like jellyfish, floating with the currents towards evermore hate. Maybe this whole Trump thing will make some people regain their senses, but I'm not hopeful.
posted by mumimor at 3:02 PM on January 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
...and at the end, they suggest that we should use as a model for content moderation...
Wikipedia.
You know, the website that has had numerous cases of where diverse viewpoints are routinely crushed under a Byzantine administration that has several times turned a blind eye to abuse.
If I didn't know that article was written completely earnestly, I'd think it was a piece of satire.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:04 PM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
Wikipedia.
You know, the website that has had numerous cases of where diverse viewpoints are routinely crushed under a Byzantine administration that has several times turned a blind eye to abuse.
If I didn't know that article was written completely earnestly, I'd think it was a piece of satire.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:04 PM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
I first learned of "ASMR" when the wikipedia edit nazis zealots extremists purists deleted the entry for not meeting their standards
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 3:12 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 3:12 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
The differences between the Canadian and US speech rules are important because while the US version does have limits, those limits are provided by a bunch of complicated case law that most people don’t understand. Clarity and intent matter. Imagine if the second amendment said “people have a right to defend their homes and hunt for food, and therefore have a right to bear arms as necessary to fulfill those needs. This shall not constitute a right to hoard weaponry for purposes of preventing the lawfully elected government from ... uh ... removing the weaponry?” That already miles better than the vague bullshit we have with the confusing comma etc etc.
posted by freecellwizard at 3:24 PM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by freecellwizard at 3:24 PM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
North Central Florida Patriots, whoever they are, via @donk_enby
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:45 PM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
Many liberals have dedicated their computers processing power to capturing the data before the shutdown.Me: (nods intelligently) “MANY BOTHANS DIED TO BRING US THIS INFORMATION.”
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:45 PM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
if only someone could build a web based search engine to front end this data so I could see if people I know were on the site and what they posted...
(please, let me know when they do)
posted by kookywon at 3:45 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
(please, let me know when they do)
posted by kookywon at 3:45 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm really looking forward to seeing the release of the subset of geotagged photos from inside the Capitol. I'm looking forward to seeing all those people named, shamed and arrested.
posted by Catblack at 3:52 PM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Catblack at 3:52 PM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm really looking forward to seeing the release of the subset of geotagged photos from inside the Capitol. I'm looking forward to seeing all those people named, shamed and arrested.
In related news, Lectern Man's defense attorney had one of the most uncomfortable pressers ever. When you are publicly admitting on camera that your client doesn't have a case...you have made some bad life decisions.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:10 PM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
In related news, Lectern Man's defense attorney had one of the most uncomfortable pressers ever. When you are publicly admitting on camera that your client doesn't have a case...you have made some bad life decisions.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:10 PM on January 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
User content regarding the concept of the Parler Pardon. Confess on Parler and get a pardon.
posted by zerobyproxy at 4:10 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by zerobyproxy at 4:10 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
Parler is now attempting to sue AWS.
Oh noooo, what if Parler dies and we break up Amazon? Definitely don't do that. I, as a lib, would feel just so owned if that happened.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 4:30 PM on January 11, 2021 [13 favorites]
Oh noooo, what if Parler dies and we break up Amazon? Definitely don't do that. I, as a lib, would feel just so owned if that happened.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 4:30 PM on January 11, 2021 [13 favorites]
Lectern man’s lawyer didn’t seem uncomfortable, just realistic about his clients options. From what I remember from the charging document the police got Lectern man to admit it was him in the photo and other key facts when they brought him in. At this point the most his defense lawyer can do is try to get the charges reduced and a lenient sentence. Hope for disorderly conduct, a fine for property damage and probation.
posted by interogative mood at 4:47 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 4:47 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
<stolen joke>
If it goes to trial, do you think he'll take the stand?
</stolen joke>
posted by 7segment at 4:54 PM on January 11, 2021 [45 favorites]
If it goes to trial, do you think he'll take the stand?
</stolen joke>
posted by 7segment at 4:54 PM on January 11, 2021 [45 favorites]
"The NSA is full of people who can take this stuff and process it into useful sorted data where you can explore relationships. "
There are lawyers who do this. It doesn't require the NSA. Lawsuits now routinely come with huge quantities of digital data that all has to be gone through. There are lawyers who've specialized in digital discovery for 15-20 years now.
"You've got heads of Police Unions in this the country GOING ON RECORD PUBLICLY as supporting the riots."
This guy's a long-time jackass that's Illinois progressives have hated for years. He posted these ill-time tweets right as the Illinois statehouse began debating the most comprehensive police reform bill in the country, and he has personally all but guaranteed passage of it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:01 PM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
There are lawyers who do this. It doesn't require the NSA. Lawsuits now routinely come with huge quantities of digital data that all has to be gone through. There are lawyers who've specialized in digital discovery for 15-20 years now.
"You've got heads of Police Unions in this the country GOING ON RECORD PUBLICLY as supporting the riots."
This guy's a long-time jackass that's Illinois progressives have hated for years. He posted these ill-time tweets right as the Illinois statehouse began debating the most comprehensive police reform bill in the country, and he has personally all but guaranteed passage of it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:01 PM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
Eh, that lawyer didn't admit to too much. You have a photo of my client in the building with what appears to be government property. He could have thrown in another "what seems to be" before 'a photo' or 'my client', but other than that, that's just a fact. And his task isn't necessarily to get his client off scott free, just to make sure his client gets all the due process he deserves and gets a reasonable penalty for some low-level mischief instead of the knee-jerk "throw the book at him" 10-year sentence a BLM protester would get for less. That would be a reasonable success, defending an insurrectionist who participated in a violent invasion of the Capitol.
posted by ctmf at 6:00 PM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 6:00 PM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
Does posting a photo of one's driver's license put one at risk for identity theft??
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:00 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:00 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Certainly more than not posting your driver's license.
posted by Mitheral at 6:22 PM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 6:22 PM on January 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
Eh, that lawyer didn't admit to too much.
The District Attorney office charging this case loosened their ties in relief when words 1 and 2 out of that attorney's mouth were not "No" and "Comment", respectively. They all lit up victory cigars and poured themselves giant glasses of victory bourbon after watching the rest of that press conference.
posted by sideshow at 6:26 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
The District Attorney office charging this case loosened their ties in relief when words 1 and 2 out of that attorney's mouth were not "No" and "Comment", respectively. They all lit up victory cigars and poured themselves giant glasses of victory bourbon after watching the rest of that press conference.
posted by sideshow at 6:26 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
>Does posting a photo of one's driver's license put one at risk for identity theft??
It has your full name, address, including ZIP, and date of birth. That's enough for some places, and enough to get what you need for the rest.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:30 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
It has your full name, address, including ZIP, and date of birth. That's enough for some places, and enough to get what you need for the rest.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:30 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Eh, that lawyer didn't admit to too much. You have a photo of my client in the building with what appears to be government property. He could have thrown in another "what seems to be" before 'a photo' or 'my client', but other than that, that's just a fact.
Yes but you don't just admit to facts. Ever. It's the lawyer's version of "what harm could it do to talk to the police?"
The lawyer could negotiate a plea, can try to suppress bad evidence that are used for some of the charges, can try to go through the government's evidence with a fine tooth comb, anything to improve the situation of their client.
But they can't do that if they just publicly admit to all the damn facts because that's now all moot.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:42 PM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
Yes but you don't just admit to facts. Ever. It's the lawyer's version of "what harm could it do to talk to the police?"
The lawyer could negotiate a plea, can try to suppress bad evidence that are used for some of the charges, can try to go through the government's evidence with a fine tooth comb, anything to improve the situation of their client.
But they can't do that if they just publicly admit to all the damn facts because that's now all moot.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:42 PM on January 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
famed free speech litigator Floyd Abrams is currently arguing that facial recognition is protected by the First Amendment, which if successful would kneecap attempts to regulate or ban the technology.
The thing that really sticks in my craw is how quickly they'll turn around and try to outlaw attempts to defeat facial recognition.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:47 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
The thing that really sticks in my craw is how quickly they'll turn around and try to outlaw attempts to defeat facial recognition.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:47 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Like what if their client has given the feds a series of events that deviated from the facts admitted? The lawyer has just put their client in jeopardy of a lying to a federal agent.
Never admit to anything.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:52 PM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
Never admit to anything.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:52 PM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
Linked from the main thread:
Parlertakes: @robmonster of Epik will be hosting Parler. It appears that Parler is not going down for good. Epik also hosts Gab.
Epik, where Hate can find a Home.
posted by clawsoon at 6:53 PM on January 11, 2021 [5 favorites]
Parlertakes: @robmonster of Epik will be hosting Parler. It appears that Parler is not going down for good. Epik also hosts Gab.
Epik, where Hate can find a Home.
posted by clawsoon at 6:53 PM on January 11, 2021 [5 favorites]
I do wonder if the realization that what they posted on Parler really wasn't as private as they thought it was will have any noticeable effect. Will some choose to leave Parler even if/when it gets back up and running? Fewer members is at least something, I guess.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 6:58 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 6:58 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
I do wonder if the realization that what they posted on Parler really wasn't as private as they thought it was will have any noticeable effect. Will some choose to leave Parler even if/when it gets back up and running?
Good question. I wouldn't be surprised if people do come back. This crowd doesn't appear to have an intuitive sense of the concept of 'consequences.'
posted by elwoodwiles at 7:30 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
Good question. I wouldn't be surprised if people do come back. This crowd doesn't appear to have an intuitive sense of the concept of 'consequences.'
posted by elwoodwiles at 7:30 PM on January 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
This crowd doesn't appear to have an intuitive sense of the concept of 'consequences.'
They don't even appear to have a sense of 'learned through hard experience'.
Not sure what you can do with people like that.
posted by Pouteria at 7:39 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
They don't even appear to have a sense of 'learned through hard experience'.
Not sure what you can do with people like that.
posted by Pouteria at 7:39 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Take them for everything they're worth?
posted by logicpunk at 7:44 PM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by logicpunk at 7:44 PM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
Looks like somebody introduced an anti-doxing bill in the Nebraska Legislature today. "Sections 1 to 6 of this act shall be known and may be cited as the Doxing Prevention Act."
I'm not against the idea of making swatting and malicious threatening doxing illegal, but this sure is conveniently also a "Please Leave The Nazis Alone Act," especially given the timing. Also seems to prevent legitimate journalism, if you can't publish any identifying details about anyone without their consent.
pdf link
posted by ctmf at 7:54 PM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
I'm not against the idea of making swatting and malicious threatening doxing illegal, but this sure is conveniently also a "Please Leave The Nazis Alone Act," especially given the timing. Also seems to prevent legitimate journalism, if you can't publish any identifying details about anyone without their consent.
pdf link
posted by ctmf at 7:54 PM on January 11, 2021 [10 favorites]
"The Legislature does not intend the Doxing Prevention Act to allow prosecution for constitutionally protected activity."
Oh well that's a relief.
posted by ctmf at 8:00 PM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
Oh well that's a relief.
posted by ctmf at 8:00 PM on January 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
Take them for everything they're worth?
Colonel Pouteria's Patent Electronic Virility Enhancer
New improved model, with 36% more scientification!
Recommended by 9 out of 10.
Limited offer. Get your's now!
Send $24.99 to PO Box Eleventy-Four, Scam City Central.
Cash only.
That sort of thing?
posted by Pouteria at 8:16 PM on January 11, 2021
Colonel Pouteria's Patent Electronic Virility Enhancer
New improved model, with 36% more scientification!
Recommended by 9 out of 10.
Limited offer. Get your's now!
Send $24.99 to PO Box Eleventy-Four, Scam City Central.
Cash only.
That sort of thing?
posted by Pouteria at 8:16 PM on January 11, 2021
Didn't realize the person who came up with that YouTube disclaimer of "no copyright infringement intended" was writing legislation these days.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:18 PM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:18 PM on January 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
That sort of thing?
Underground organic groceries, perhaps. Something mildly illegal that the government is keeping from you, preferably.
posted by clawsoon at 8:23 PM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
Underground organic groceries, perhaps. Something mildly illegal that the government is keeping from you, preferably.
posted by clawsoon at 8:23 PM on January 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
Clearly my scamming technique has not kept up with the times.
posted by Pouteria at 8:41 PM on January 11, 2021
posted by Pouteria at 8:41 PM on January 11, 2021
You seem to know what you are doing with this stuff. Might be an opening for a marketing consultant of your calibre coming up soon.
posted by Pouteria at 8:49 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Pouteria at 8:49 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm sure that if I wanted to, my Trump-supporting guru of raw juice friend would be happy to have me on board.
posted by clawsoon at 8:52 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 8:52 PM on January 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
lectern guy
Speaking of lectern guy, that one I'd let off lightly. Anyone with a smile like that is a lover not a hater. It might even be smart for Biden to pardon him. Just that one guy. Throw the book at the rest of 'em.
posted by hypnogogue at 10:40 PM on January 11, 2021
Speaking of lectern guy, that one I'd let off lightly. Anyone with a smile like that is a lover not a hater. It might even be smart for Biden to pardon him. Just that one guy. Throw the book at the rest of 'em.
posted by hypnogogue at 10:40 PM on January 11, 2021
Speaking of lectern guy, that one I'd let off lightly. Anyone with a smile like that is a lover not a hater.
Naw, fuck that guy. He was grinning in support of all that horror. Unless your joking. My joke meter, like most everyone else on this site, is broken.
posted by ishmael at 11:11 PM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
Naw, fuck that guy. He was grinning in support of all that horror. Unless your joking. My joke meter, like most everyone else on this site, is broken.
posted by ishmael at 11:11 PM on January 11, 2021 [18 favorites]
Speaking of lectern guy, that one I'd let off lightly. Anyone with a smile like that is a lover not a hater.
I understand this impulse and where it comes from, because I had something vaguely similar - not as much forgiveness as "I bet I could talk that guy down from the cliff, he seems 95% less broken and less of a lost cause than the rest of these fuckers."
It's an understandable way to feel because part of the reason that we're here and not there is capacity for empathy, and SO FUCKING MANY of the Trumpists we see on TV or Twitter or in our real lives are just relentlessly miserable shitheads looking to export their misery on the easiest targets they can find. The dude with the lectern? Doesn't look like he's part of Team Inflict My Misery And Self Loathing On Marginalized Stangers, and so when we in normal human fashion begin searching for One Good Person(tm) in the crowd he's the one we naturally glom onto: he looks like he's a lot of fun at parties. Maybe we could party*.
This is a mistake. A normal one, but still a mistake: this is someone who didn't just watch but actively witnessed and probably participated in the terrifying footage from the front line of the riot that we've (probably) all watched at this point. He was cool enough with all that to continue on rather than turn back.
There isn't a need for clemency for these people beyond the universal "I am human and they are human and there but for the grace of a few key people taking an interest in my personal development go I," so here's what I'm left with:
I hope he faces the same terrorism and sedition charges as the rest of these fuckers, but the prosecutor doesn't play any cute bullshit with attempting to charge for the theft of the lectern. Because that shit was admittedly fucking funny and if I were broken enough to be in that building in the first place, I'd hope I'd have the same impulse he did there.
That's it. That's all I got.
*(I do not party. I have never partied. But despite being a robot with no soul I recognize the sentiment in myself and others.)
posted by Ryvar at 4:23 AM on January 12, 2021 [13 favorites]
I understand this impulse and where it comes from, because I had something vaguely similar - not as much forgiveness as "I bet I could talk that guy down from the cliff, he seems 95% less broken and less of a lost cause than the rest of these fuckers."
It's an understandable way to feel because part of the reason that we're here and not there is capacity for empathy, and SO FUCKING MANY of the Trumpists we see on TV or Twitter or in our real lives are just relentlessly miserable shitheads looking to export their misery on the easiest targets they can find. The dude with the lectern? Doesn't look like he's part of Team Inflict My Misery And Self Loathing On Marginalized Stangers, and so when we in normal human fashion begin searching for One Good Person(tm) in the crowd he's the one we naturally glom onto: he looks like he's a lot of fun at parties. Maybe we could party*.
This is a mistake. A normal one, but still a mistake: this is someone who didn't just watch but actively witnessed and probably participated in the terrifying footage from the front line of the riot that we've (probably) all watched at this point. He was cool enough with all that to continue on rather than turn back.
There isn't a need for clemency for these people beyond the universal "I am human and they are human and there but for the grace of a few key people taking an interest in my personal development go I," so here's what I'm left with:
I hope he faces the same terrorism and sedition charges as the rest of these fuckers, but the prosecutor doesn't play any cute bullshit with attempting to charge for the theft of the lectern. Because that shit was admittedly fucking funny and if I were broken enough to be in that building in the first place, I'd hope I'd have the same impulse he did there.
That's it. That's all I got.
*(I do not party. I have never partied. But despite being a robot with no soul I recognize the sentiment in myself and others.)
posted by Ryvar at 4:23 AM on January 12, 2021 [13 favorites]
Aren't we just falling for the well-known psychological trap that makes us think that good looking people have better intentions and are more likely to be innocent?
posted by clawsoon at 5:21 AM on January 12, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 5:21 AM on January 12, 2021 [19 favorites]
True. I think its the big goofy smile. If there were photos of the fur guy with that kind of smile instead of angry face, some might be feeling like they do with the lecturn dude.
posted by LizBoBiz at 5:35 AM on January 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by LizBoBiz at 5:35 AM on January 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
Aren't we just falling for the well-known psychological trap that makes us think that good looking people have better intentions and are more likely to be innocent?
You'd think that, but I'm beautiful, so...
posted by Ryvar at 5:37 AM on January 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
You'd think that, but I'm beautiful, so...
posted by Ryvar at 5:37 AM on January 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm not falling for it. That grinning asshat is among the worst of the bunch. He's grinning while he destroys public property in the house of the US Congress. He grins while he is literally destroying the basic foundation of American democracy. As if turning the US into a monarchy is some kind of joke from a Cheech and Chong movie. He grins while his drinking buddies casually murder a cop or two. He might have Alfred E. Neuman's look of innocence but he doesn't deserve any kind of special treatment.
Look at him grinning next to Donald Trump Jr. and tell me he's not a hater. Anyway, he's not smiling now.
posted by mmoncur at 5:37 AM on January 12, 2021 [23 favorites]
Look at him grinning next to Donald Trump Jr. and tell me he's not a hater. Anyway, he's not smiling now.
posted by mmoncur at 5:37 AM on January 12, 2021 [23 favorites]
Datamine the shit out of the Parler data dump, harvest emails and talking points and set up a machine learning routine to generate, A/B test and optimize barely legal fundraising scams.
posted by signal at 5:47 AM on January 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by signal at 5:47 AM on January 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
But only if the barely legal scam profits go to Black Voters Matter and other worthy causes.
posted by Bella Donna at 5:58 AM on January 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 5:58 AM on January 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
Colonel Pouteria's Patent Electronic Virility Enhancer
New improved model, with 36% more scientification!
Recommended by 9 out of 10.
Limited offer. Get your's now!
Send $24.99 to PO Box Eleventy-Four, Scam City Central.
Well, I got money in hand to give to you, but you didn't include a zip code. WTF? This is poor customer service and I'm reporting you to the Better Business Bureau!
posted by NoMich at 6:27 AM on January 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
New improved model, with 36% more scientification!
Recommended by 9 out of 10.
Limited offer. Get your's now!
Send $24.99 to PO Box Eleventy-Four, Scam City Central.
Well, I got money in hand to give to you, but you didn't include a zip code. WTF? This is poor customer service and I'm reporting you to the Better Business Bureau!
posted by NoMich at 6:27 AM on January 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
> Datamine the shit out of the Parler data dump, harvest emails and talking points and set up a machine learning routine to generate, A/B test and optimize barely legal fundraising scams.
What makes you think the Russians, Mercers, and whomever else were on the inside have not already been doing this? Why else do you think they had imposed the ridiculous requirement of making membership tiers contingent on legal photo IDs?
posted by at by at 6:35 AM on January 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
What makes you think the Russians, Mercers, and whomever else were on the inside have not already been doing this? Why else do you think they had imposed the ridiculous requirement of making membership tiers contingent on legal photo IDs?
posted by at by at 6:35 AM on January 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
at by: "What makes you think the Russians, Mercers, and whomever else were on the inside have not already been doing this?"
I don't think that. I'm just speculating on how I can get in on it.
posted by signal at 6:54 AM on January 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't think that. I'm just speculating on how I can get in on it.
posted by signal at 6:54 AM on January 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Well, I got money in hand to give to you, but you didn't include a zip code. WTF? This is poor customer service and I'm reporting you to the Better Business Bureau!
I am sorry, but the business you have tried to reach has closed down, and the proprietor has left no contact details.
This is a recording.
posted by Pouteria at 7:08 AM on January 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
I am sorry, but the business you have tried to reach has closed down, and the proprietor has left no contact details.
This is a recording.
posted by Pouteria at 7:08 AM on January 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Look at him grinning next to Donald Trump Jr. and tell me he's not a hater. Anyway, he's not smiling now.
What is the topless goth lady doing? She literally looks like a movie villain, I guess except for the topless part.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:27 AM on January 12, 2021
What is the topless goth lady doing? She literally looks like a movie villain, I guess except for the topless part.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:27 AM on January 12, 2021
Speaking of lectern guy, that one I'd let off lightly. Anyone with a smile like that is a lover not a hater
This must be a joke. The fact he could smile like that while participating in the attempted murder of Congress makes me despise this man above most others involved. I'd like to see that smile wiped off his smug face forever. Looking at that picture gets me really focused on why the Trumpist movement must be crushed if we are to survive.
posted by EatTheWeek at 7:32 AM on January 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
This must be a joke. The fact he could smile like that while participating in the attempted murder of Congress makes me despise this man above most others involved. I'd like to see that smile wiped off his smug face forever. Looking at that picture gets me really focused on why the Trumpist movement must be crushed if we are to survive.
posted by EatTheWeek at 7:32 AM on January 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
What is the topless goth lady doing? She literally looks like a movie villain, I guess except for the topless part.
She was Photoshopped into the scene.
Should I be surprised/shocked that the fascist lectern thief is a Phish fan? I guess they just attract all types?
posted by NoMich at 8:08 AM on January 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
She was Photoshopped into the scene.
Should I be surprised/shocked that the fascist lectern thief is a Phish fan? I guess they just attract all types?
posted by NoMich at 8:08 AM on January 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Lectern guy was posing for the camera, like some kid being naughty who thought no adults were watching so that he was just going to get away with it. Nobody there thought they were ever going to held accountable so no need for masks and why they felt safe taking lots of trophy photos.
posted by epo at 8:11 AM on January 12, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by epo at 8:11 AM on January 12, 2021 [9 favorites]
As someone pointed out in another thread, a lot of this "thinking there will be no repercussions" has to do with that dumb "sovereign citizen" shit that has been being passed around conservative circles for decades.
posted by deadaluspark at 8:17 AM on January 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by deadaluspark at 8:17 AM on January 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
That's the smile of a person who's never felt any consequences for anything he's done ever. The poster child for "boys will be boys." Thanks, toxic masculinity / western patriarchy.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:19 AM on January 12, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:19 AM on January 12, 2021 [30 favorites]
deadaluspark: " a lot of this "thinking there will be no repercussions" has to do with that dumb "sovereign citizen" shit "
I was thinking about this and that genius who put his feet up in Pelosi's office, how he declared 'I didn't steal the envelope, I left her a quarter'.
It's a specific kind of not-too-smart person who think they're smarter than everybody else and they can get away with things by stating their 'clever' logic, that people will say 'Wow! You got us! We can't charge you for the federal crime of stealing mail because you left a quarter! Well played sir!'
Seems like a subset of Dunning-Kruger.
posted by signal at 9:00 AM on January 12, 2021 [18 favorites]
I was thinking about this and that genius who put his feet up in Pelosi's office, how he declared 'I didn't steal the envelope, I left her a quarter'.
It's a specific kind of not-too-smart person who think they're smarter than everybody else and they can get away with things by stating their 'clever' logic, that people will say 'Wow! You got us! We can't charge you for the federal crime of stealing mail because you left a quarter! Well played sir!'
Seems like a subset of Dunning-Kruger.
posted by signal at 9:00 AM on January 12, 2021 [18 favorites]
It's a seemingly common belief among the far-right that there are magic loopholes in the law that can be exploited if you only know the one weird trick, e.g. the "fringe on the flag means it's a naval ensign" Sovereign Citizen stuff. Feet-on-desk guy leaving a quarter, and thinking it'll make him immune to prosecution for theft, seems totally in line with that sort of thinking.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:36 AM on January 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:36 AM on January 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
The business model of Parler reminds me of the end of Atlas Shrugged, but viewed from the perspective of the non-protagonists:
"So you're headed to Galt's Gulch, eh? Bummed out that literally no one else is willing listen to you any longer? And your new plan is to exercise your inalienable right to free speech by tacking scrawled messages on three-by-five cards to the Galt's Gulch cork board, forever unread by the rest of humanity?
"YOUR TERMS ARE ACCEPTABLE."
posted by springo at 10:42 AM on January 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
"So you're headed to Galt's Gulch, eh? Bummed out that literally no one else is willing listen to you any longer? And your new plan is to exercise your inalienable right to free speech by tacking scrawled messages on three-by-five cards to the Galt's Gulch cork board, forever unread by the rest of humanity?
"YOUR TERMS ARE ACCEPTABLE."
posted by springo at 10:42 AM on January 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
It's a specific kind of not-too-smart person who think they're smarter than everybody else and they can get away with things by stating their 'clever' logic,
Do I have to get out the quote again?
Do I have to get out the quote again?
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”posted by sebastienbailard at 10:45 AM on January 12, 2021 [38 favorites]
― Jean-Paul Sartre
In an unexpected announcement yesterday, the head of the Minneapolis Police Union (a white supremacist and Trump supporter with a history of hateful social media usage) abruptly announced that he's retiring early.
There's speculation that he's been active on Parler and his early retirement is related to recent events.
posted by beandip at 10:55 AM on January 12, 2021 [18 favorites]
There's speculation that he's been active on Parler and his early retirement is related to recent events.
posted by beandip at 10:55 AM on January 12, 2021 [18 favorites]
In an unexpected announcement yesterday, the head of the Minneapolis Police Union (a white supremacist and Trump supporter with a history of hateful social media usage) abruptly announced that he's retiring early.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
He represents everything that we need to get rid of from policing.
posted by clawsoon at 11:22 AM on January 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
He represents everything that we need to get rid of from policing.
posted by clawsoon at 11:22 AM on January 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
@ggreenwald: Do you know how many of the people arrested in connection with the Capitol invasion were active users of Parler?
Zero.
The planning was largely done on Facebook. This is all a bullshit pretext for silencing competitors on ideological grounds: just the start.
@nicoleperlroth: Gizmodo mapped 70,000 geo-located Parler posts and isolated hundreds from January 6 near the Capitol. [link]
@areidross: This is just patently false... Nicholas Ochs and Jake the fake shaman Chansley, to name just two—I haven't looked at the full list yet. But what's so important about this point to Glen that he has to just falsify the facts to fit his mental model?
@azforeman: [image of Parler profile of organic meal enthusiast Jake Angeli, who was most definitely arrested in connection with the Capitol invasion, and was most definitely an active user of Parler, both of which are facts easily confirmed by a couple of Google searches, which a fancy civil liberties lawyerin' fella like Glenn should presumably be able to handle.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:21 PM on January 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
Zero.
The planning was largely done on Facebook. This is all a bullshit pretext for silencing competitors on ideological grounds: just the start.
@nicoleperlroth: Gizmodo mapped 70,000 geo-located Parler posts and isolated hundreds from January 6 near the Capitol. [link]
@areidross: This is just patently false... Nicholas Ochs and Jake the fake shaman Chansley, to name just two—I haven't looked at the full list yet. But what's so important about this point to Glen that he has to just falsify the facts to fit his mental model?
@azforeman: [image of Parler profile of organic meal enthusiast Jake Angeli, who was most definitely arrested in connection with the Capitol invasion, and was most definitely an active user of Parler, both of which are facts easily confirmed by a couple of Google searches, which a fancy civil liberties lawyerin' fella like Glenn should presumably be able to handle.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:21 PM on January 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
Glenn Greenwald: There were no Parler users in the insurrection, and this is just an attack to kill competition.
Crash Override (@donk_enby): Parler users were all over the Capitol, and I have the EXIF receipts to prove it.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:26 PM on January 12, 2021 [25 favorites]
Crash Override (@donk_enby): Parler users were all over the Capitol, and I have the EXIF receipts to prove it.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:26 PM on January 12, 2021 [25 favorites]
Fuck Glenn Greenwald is totally gone, isn't he? What a joke. I view him as a cautionary tale for leftists (but really anybody) in seeing where reflexive contrarianism and pugnaciousness can lead.
posted by flamk at 1:53 PM on January 12, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by flamk at 1:53 PM on January 12, 2021 [16 favorites]
He's probably right that a shitload of planning and whatnot happened on Facebook, too, but he's obviously wrong about Parler and willing to boldly state that nothing happened on Parler in the face of evidence that he apparently... didn't read? didn't believe? didn't care about?
posted by clawsoon at 2:06 PM on January 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 2:06 PM on January 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
Does he have a Parler account that he wants to disavow?
posted by Marticus at 2:19 PM on January 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Marticus at 2:19 PM on January 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
The business model of Parler reminds me of the end of Atlas Shrugged
The whole Republican party reminds me of the middle of Atlas Shrugged, where the parasites and do-nothings leech off all the productive members of society and keep them down with red tape, grift, and fuckery. Only they think they are the protagonists in this story.
posted by ctmf at 3:06 PM on January 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
The whole Republican party reminds me of the middle of Atlas Shrugged, where the parasites and do-nothings leech off all the productive members of society and keep them down with red tape, grift, and fuckery. Only they think they are the protagonists in this story.
posted by ctmf at 3:06 PM on January 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
It's a seemingly common belief among the far-right that there are magic loopholes in the law that can be exploited if you only know the one weird trick, e.g. the "fringe on the flag means it's a naval ensign" Sovereign Citizen stuff. Feet-on-desk guy leaving a quarter, and thinking it'll make him immune to prosecution for theft, seems totally in line with that sort of thinking.
Magic loopholes was literally Trump's court strategy in 65 post-election cases, AND the entire "Pence can throw out votes!", "Republicans can throw out votes", and the continuing stream of lies continuing to this very moment.
posted by mikelieman at 4:22 PM on January 12, 2021 [15 favorites]
Magic loopholes was literally Trump's court strategy in 65 post-election cases, AND the entire "Pence can throw out votes!", "Republicans can throw out votes", and the continuing stream of lies continuing to this very moment.
posted by mikelieman at 4:22 PM on January 12, 2021 [15 favorites]
Mother Jones: On Telegram, white nationalists are trying to radicalize those fleeing Parler
“Following a deplatforming we see the networks are damaged in numbers when they relocate to other platforms. But they are not destroyed,” Megan Squire told me. “The tech companies should work together in this, but they usually do not. Company A will wash their hands of it and ignore the impact on Company B. Company B will often pride themselves on ‘winning’ the customers from Company A. And so on.”
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:30 PM on January 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
“Following a deplatforming we see the networks are damaged in numbers when they relocate to other platforms. But they are not destroyed,” Megan Squire told me. “The tech companies should work together in this, but they usually do not. Company A will wash their hands of it and ignore the impact on Company B. Company B will often pride themselves on ‘winning’ the customers from Company A. And so on.”
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:30 PM on January 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
A lawyer reviews Amazon's response to Parler's TRO request. TL;DR: Amazon pulls out the receipts, and promptly beats Parler around the head with them.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:00 AM on January 13, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:00 AM on January 13, 2021 [5 favorites]
Oh cool. Quoting from this tweet in that series: "to be clear, AWS suspended and did not terminate the account"
This means that Parler's data on AWS should be intact (suspend = can't access your account; terminate = there is no longer an account). The FBI will appreciate that.
posted by at by at 5:46 AM on January 13, 2021 [4 favorites]
This means that Parler's data on AWS should be intact (suspend = can't access your account; terminate = there is no longer an account). The FBI will appreciate that.
posted by at by at 5:46 AM on January 13, 2021 [4 favorites]
Man, there's is no public shaming like a lawyer-based public shaming of other less competent lawyers.
posted by signal at 5:56 AM on January 13, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by signal at 5:56 AM on January 13, 2021 [11 favorites]
I just heard another idiotic free speech debate on the radio, and again saw otherwise brilliant people fall into the trap.
But what irritated me the most was that in the name of "both sides", they had found some totally irrelevant, fringe racist from a party with no influence and invited her to debate with two sane people who are both major politicians and policy makers. This is what gives these people power. I know you guys know this, but I just had to get it off my mind.
posted by mumimor at 6:55 AM on January 13, 2021 [9 favorites]
But what irritated me the most was that in the name of "both sides", they had found some totally irrelevant, fringe racist from a party with no influence and invited her to debate with two sane people who are both major politicians and policy makers. This is what gives these people power. I know you guys know this, but I just had to get it off my mind.
posted by mumimor at 6:55 AM on January 13, 2021 [9 favorites]
@CatBlack
Ask and you shall receive via slashdot
posted by kookywon at 7:50 AM on January 13, 2021 [3 favorites]
Ask and you shall receive via slashdot
posted by kookywon at 7:50 AM on January 13, 2021 [3 favorites]
I am actually curious about what the data shows for the 5th (or earlier.) AFAIK the Capitol has been closed to tours, so anyone on Parler who did reconnaissance had to have been invited.
posted by Catblack at 9:42 AM on January 13, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Catblack at 9:42 AM on January 13, 2021 [7 favorites]
I am actually curious about what the data shows for the 5th (or earlier.) AFAIK the Capitol has been closed to tours, so anyone on Parler who did reconnaissance had to have been invited.
...or working there.
posted by HyperBlue at 9:44 AM on January 13, 2021 [8 favorites]
...or working there.
posted by HyperBlue at 9:44 AM on January 13, 2021 [8 favorites]
If you'd like a nerdy take on what a HUGE uphill battle Parler has getting up and running basically anywhere, I appreciated this article: Parler’s New Serverless Architecture talking about basically all the magic thing that AWS does that you'd have to do on your own, and how hard it is to find services to do that for you because you're the worst people in the world.
posted by jessamyn at 9:55 AM on January 13, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 9:55 AM on January 13, 2021 [17 favorites]
In case there was any benefit of the doubt in your mind about Greenwald, his tweet was supposedly based on a weekend of research but somehow didn't turn up examples like Ochs that had been arrested before the weekend.
And the article those tweets were hyping (internet archive link) claimed things like "Parler was not founded, nor is it run, by pro-Trump, MAGA supporters" in the same paragraph that it says "One of the key original investors was Rebekah Mercer."
He is not an honest man.
posted by Riki tiki at 10:53 AM on January 13, 2021 [23 favorites]
And the article those tweets were hyping (internet archive link) claimed things like "Parler was not founded, nor is it run, by pro-Trump, MAGA supporters" in the same paragraph that it says "One of the key original investors was Rebekah Mercer."
He is not an honest man.
posted by Riki tiki at 10:53 AM on January 13, 2021 [23 favorites]
Fox News’ Dan Bongino Won’t Return to Twitter After Suspension: ‘F– You’ : The Parler investor insists that did not influence his choice to primarily use the platform going forward
posted by benzenedream at 12:29 PM on January 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by benzenedream at 12:29 PM on January 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
>...or working there.
yes (to steal from my twitter feed),
The calls are coming from inside the House!!
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 12:31 PM on January 13, 2021
yes (to steal from my twitter feed),
The calls are coming from inside the House!!
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 12:31 PM on January 13, 2021
I just heard another idiotic free speech debate on the radio, and again saw otherwise brilliant people fall into the trap.
Because I am in such a state of anger, and not just about this, I wrote to the radio station to complain. So now I hope I'll have a good night's rest.
posted by mumimor at 1:56 PM on January 13, 2021 [6 favorites]
Because I am in such a state of anger, and not just about this, I wrote to the radio station to complain. So now I hope I'll have a good night's rest.
posted by mumimor at 1:56 PM on January 13, 2021 [6 favorites]
Found the trumpist interpretation of Jan 6, along with some comments about the social platforms they're trying next.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:53 PM on January 14, 2021
Trump has been kicked off of Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and was blocked from e-commerce platform Shopify - all because of a pair of relatively benign tweets on January 8th, two days after the Capitol 'riot' in which a small group of Trump supporters and a BLM activist were allowed into the Capitol Building through an opened door.After noting that Parler is down and Gab is running slow because it's swamped, they mention Telegram, Signal, Rumble, BitChute, CloutHub, MeWe, and Minds.com.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:53 PM on January 14, 2021
Might as well lean all the way into the cognitive dissonance and start using QQ and Weibo.
posted by ctmf at 4:21 PM on January 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by ctmf at 4:21 PM on January 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
ProPublica has posted 500 of the videos extracted from Parler: What Parler Saw During the Attack on the Capitol with an accompanying article Inside the Capitol Riot: What the Parler Videos Reveal.
posted by ectabo at 1:58 PM on January 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by ectabo at 1:58 PM on January 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
In a completely unsurprising result, Parler's motion for a preliminary injunction against Amazon has been denied.
posted by creepygirl at 5:43 PM on January 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by creepygirl at 5:43 PM on January 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
Don't worry, it seems they have a new home in Russia.
posted by signal at 4:21 AM on January 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by signal at 4:21 AM on January 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
Non parody: DDoS-Guard To Forfeit Internet Space Occupied by Parler.
posted by signal at 4:53 AM on January 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by signal at 4:53 AM on January 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
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posted by daveje at 3:31 AM on January 11, 2021 [35 favorites]