The deal is he's not as relevant
April 30, 2024 8:19 AM Subscribe
Jerry Seinfeld is a Lazy Hack Out of Touch with the Real World - and Who Can Blame Him? Paste Magazine's brief riposte to the New Yorker's Jerry Seinfeld interview in which Mr. It's About Nothing feels that comedy has been killed by "the extreme left" and "P.C. crap."
The Seinfeld show is more popular than ever with kids and Larry David has remained liked and relevant, and I hope both of those things annoy him intensely.
posted by Artw at 8:33 AM on April 30 [14 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:33 AM on April 30 [14 favorites]
Much of that article could be said about any aging person who is happier to look in the mirror than over their shoulder. I was honestly hoping for more, much more, acid but it wasn't bad as a skewering.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:37 AM on April 30 [6 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:37 AM on April 30 [6 favorites]
You could've just taken your absurd amounts of money and kept your mouth shut but noooooooo
posted by EvaDestruction at 8:40 AM on April 30 [25 favorites]
posted by EvaDestruction at 8:40 AM on April 30 [25 favorites]
Why haven’t JLD or Jason Alexander made any statements like these 🧐
posted by pxe2000 at 8:41 AM on April 30 [13 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 8:41 AM on April 30 [13 favorites]
idek, is anybody from Seinfeld not a horrible horrible person?
Jason Alexander seems like a decent guy by most accounts?
posted by ryanshepard at 8:42 AM on April 30 [37 favorites]
Jason Alexander seems like a decent guy by most accounts?
posted by ryanshepard at 8:42 AM on April 30 [37 favorites]
While I think Seinfeld is very very wrong, and super super myopic, that doesn't make him a "horrible horrible person." I prefer my hyperbole for people that truly truly deserve it.
posted by mcstayinskool at 8:50 AM on April 30 [31 favorites]
posted by mcstayinskool at 8:50 AM on April 30 [31 favorites]
Maybe comedy's been killed by....comedy? I mean, in those old days Seinfeld is talking about, at any given moment, there were like 5 channels and HBO, so there was a built-in market for new comedy. Nowadays, people have hundreds of FAST channels playing old TV 24/7. Lots of people would rather just keep their favorite reruns on loop than seek out something new that nobody else is watching, anyway.
Regarding Jerry himself, my impression from watching this recent clip of him talking about his experience in Tel Aviv is that he's not a deep thinker. I mean bro you were in the midst of the defining conflict of recent times and your hot take is [paraphrasing, but just barely] "what's the deeeeal with war?" He has made it clear elsewhere that he "stands with Israel" and "feels a deep commitment to raising awareness around the world about the issue of the hostages," and while I'm sure his meeting with the hostage families was probably very meaningful and impactful for them, I can't shake the feeling that as a billionaire with a bully pulpit he could be doing a lot more to help end this conflict or at least in participating in the intellectual discourse surrounding it. In fairness to him, I've never seen that show where he drives around chatting with people, so maybe I've missed out on his most penetrating insights.
posted by xigxag at 8:50 AM on April 30 [18 favorites]
Regarding Jerry himself, my impression from watching this recent clip of him talking about his experience in Tel Aviv is that he's not a deep thinker. I mean bro you were in the midst of the defining conflict of recent times and your hot take is [paraphrasing, but just barely] "what's the deeeeal with war?" He has made it clear elsewhere that he "stands with Israel" and "feels a deep commitment to raising awareness around the world about the issue of the hostages," and while I'm sure his meeting with the hostage families was probably very meaningful and impactful for them, I can't shake the feeling that as a billionaire with a bully pulpit he could be doing a lot more to help end this conflict or at least in participating in the intellectual discourse surrounding it. In fairness to him, I've never seen that show where he drives around chatting with people, so maybe I've missed out on his most penetrating insights.
posted by xigxag at 8:50 AM on April 30 [18 favorites]
I've never seen that show where he drives around chatting with people, so maybe I've missed out on his most penetrating insights
I enjoyed some of those shows
Not a car person, but I do love a good chat about comedy and I think the format was smart and some of the conversations were really great.. the visit to Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner for example
posted by elkevelvet at 8:55 AM on April 30 [7 favorites]
I enjoyed some of those shows
Not a car person, but I do love a good chat about comedy and I think the format was smart and some of the conversations were really great.. the visit to Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner for example
posted by elkevelvet at 8:55 AM on April 30 [7 favorites]
I tried to watch one of his Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee videos. I was horrified to discover that the interminable opening segment, in which he soliloquized about awesome cars before the guest even arrived, was not intended as satire.
Jason Alexander seems like a good egg, given his actually thoughtful apology for cracking lazy homophobic jokes on Craig Ferguson's show.
posted by HeroZero at 8:56 AM on April 30 [30 favorites]
Jason Alexander seems like a good egg, given his actually thoughtful apology for cracking lazy homophobic jokes on Craig Ferguson's show.
posted by HeroZero at 8:56 AM on April 30 [30 favorites]
Hey, I think TV comedy peaked with Green Acres.
posted by ovvl at 8:58 AM on April 30 [10 favorites]
posted by ovvl at 8:58 AM on April 30 [10 favorites]
Most of the positive, daring leaps forward in Sitcoms during the 70's, 80's and 90's had to do with woke concepts - be they explicit like on All in the Family, MASH and Maude or be they based on inclusion of groups that had been previously excluded (or centered on somebody other than some white dude). And I won't pretend that even those moves forward weren't ultimately dictated by some dude in Network accounting going "we can now make more money by including a gay character on one of our second-string sitcoms."
I'm not sure which daring, cutting edge episode of Friends Mr. Seinfeld is lamenting would be impossible to make today, but if he sincerely thinks that the deliberate censorship policies of 70's-90's network TV was somehow less oppressive than the "we've stopped doing the most blatantly racist, sexist and homophobic jokes because we are losing money on it" 00's-20's, he's not just a conservative hack - he's delusional.
Fortunately, Mr. Seinfeld is a wealthy man, so he could surely use that fortune to make an anti-woke, cutting edge piece of comedy like (checks notes) The Bee Movie.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:00 AM on April 30 [31 favorites]
I'm not sure which daring, cutting edge episode of Friends Mr. Seinfeld is lamenting would be impossible to make today, but if he sincerely thinks that the deliberate censorship policies of 70's-90's network TV was somehow less oppressive than the "we've stopped doing the most blatantly racist, sexist and homophobic jokes because we are losing money on it" 00's-20's, he's not just a conservative hack - he's delusional.
Fortunately, Mr. Seinfeld is a wealthy man, so he could surely use that fortune to make an anti-woke, cutting edge piece of comedy like (checks notes) The Bee Movie.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:00 AM on April 30 [31 favorites]
What's ironic is that Seinfeld, for many years, fought against the stigma that his comedy lacks an edge, because unlike other members of his industry he won't "work blue." The persistent theme seemed to be that he sticks with anodyne, vanilla topics that don't push the envelope because he won't stray into offensive or politically incorrect comedy.
And now this. He's reinvented himself as a member of the anti-woke aristocracy, but not on stage, in throwaway comments and old-media magazine interviews. What's the deal?
posted by Gordion Knott at 9:02 AM on April 30 [9 favorites]
And now this. He's reinvented himself as a member of the anti-woke aristocracy, but not on stage, in throwaway comments and old-media magazine interviews. What's the deal?
posted by Gordion Knott at 9:02 AM on April 30 [9 favorites]
Allow me to post the last time Jerry Seinfeld was funny, which is a 2 minute bit of Jeremy Kaplowitz aping Seinfeld's delivery.
posted by zenon at 9:03 AM on April 30 [12 favorites]
posted by zenon at 9:03 AM on April 30 [12 favorites]
It's got to be hard to feel like you're the king of comedy and then one day and wake up and realize that you're not as funny as dril.
posted by phooky at 9:08 AM on April 30 [57 favorites]
posted by phooky at 9:08 AM on April 30 [57 favorites]
While I think Seinfeld is very very wrong, and super super myopic, that doesn't make him a "horrible horrible person."
No, what makes him a horrible, horrible person was dating a high school student when he was 38.
posted by rikschell at 9:13 AM on April 30 [65 favorites]
No, what makes him a horrible, horrible person was dating a high school student when he was 38.
posted by rikschell at 9:13 AM on April 30 [65 favorites]
This is the result of the extreme left and P.C. crap, and people worrying so much about offending other people. Now they’re going to see standup comics because we are not policed by anyone. The audience polices us. We know when we’re off track. We know instantly and we adjust to it instantly. But when you write a script and it goes into four or five different hands, committees, groups—“Here’s our thought about this joke.” Well, that’s the end of your comedy.
So there was a story earlier this week about how Bob Odenkirk and David Cross sold a show - after a bidding war! - to Paramount, only to have middle managers there review and kill the project for whatever reason after the deal was closed.
That seems to be exactly the situation that Seinfeld seems upset about in this quote; but he's either legitimately confused as to the fetid corporate motivations of those decisions, or being purposefully disingenuous, since he's well aware who actually calls the shots, and hauling out the ol' leftist shibboleth is a lot easier than learning to adapt when you're closer to death than relevance.
posted by phong3d at 9:17 AM on April 30 [16 favorites]
So there was a story earlier this week about how Bob Odenkirk and David Cross sold a show - after a bidding war! - to Paramount, only to have middle managers there review and kill the project for whatever reason after the deal was closed.
That seems to be exactly the situation that Seinfeld seems upset about in this quote; but he's either legitimately confused as to the fetid corporate motivations of those decisions, or being purposefully disingenuous, since he's well aware who actually calls the shots, and hauling out the ol' leftist shibboleth is a lot easier than learning to adapt when you're closer to death than relevance.
posted by phong3d at 9:17 AM on April 30 [16 favorites]
From the New Yorker interview: We did an episode of the series in the nineties where Kramer decides to start a business of having homeless people pull rickshaws because, as he says, “They’re outside anyway.” Do you think I could get that episode on the air today?
This is a particularly funny example because clueless person being crass and exploitive toward the poor is a very popular genre of comedy right now. Like, has he seen White Lotus? Knives Out? The Curse? The Menu?
posted by smelendez at 9:18 AM on April 30 [42 favorites]
This is a particularly funny example because clueless person being crass and exploitive toward the poor is a very popular genre of comedy right now. Like, has he seen White Lotus? Knives Out? The Curse? The Menu?
posted by smelendez at 9:18 AM on April 30 [42 favorites]
You couldn’t do that joke today because it’s a business model for at least five start ups.
posted by Artw at 9:19 AM on April 30 [121 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:19 AM on April 30 [121 favorites]
Schmigadoon, Reboot, Schitt's Creek, Strange Planet, The Galaxy's Second-Best Hospital, Only Murders in the Building, What We Do in the Shadows, Abbott Elementary, Pen15....hell, Big Mouth's in what, season 7?
There's plenty of great comedy on TV, from silly to biting to profane. Seinfeld's just mad that he's irrelevant.
posted by skullhead at 9:26 AM on April 30 [24 favorites]
There's plenty of great comedy on TV, from silly to biting to profane. Seinfeld's just mad that he's irrelevant.
posted by skullhead at 9:26 AM on April 30 [24 favorites]
But when you write a script and it goes into four or five different hands, committees, groups—“Here’s our thought about this joke.” Well, that’s the end of your comedy.
You know how I know that he knows this is a problem of corporate media production, not wokeness? He did a whole episode about it! "Jerk store" is the line!
posted by praemunire at 9:27 AM on April 30 [5 favorites]
You know how I know that he knows this is a problem of corporate media production, not wokeness? He did a whole episode about it! "Jerk store" is the line!
posted by praemunire at 9:27 AM on April 30 [5 favorites]
Seen on Blue Sky: "Interesting how Julia Louis-Dreyfus is way too busy having an actual post-Seinfeld career to complain about woke."
posted by Kitteh at 9:30 AM on April 30 [83 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:30 AM on April 30 [83 favorites]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus is way too busy having an actual post-Seinfeld career to complain about woke
I don't know this for sure, but it's not totally impossible that she's richer than him, too (in addition to her career, she's the daughter of a now-deceased billionaire).
posted by praemunire at 9:38 AM on April 30 [18 favorites]
I don't know this for sure, but it's not totally impossible that she's richer than him, too (in addition to her career, she's the daughter of a now-deceased billionaire).
posted by praemunire at 9:38 AM on April 30 [18 favorites]
Seen on Blue Sky: "Interesting how Julia Louis-Dreyfus is way too busy having an actual post-Seinfeld career to complain about woke."
Also true for Jason Alexander, who appears to have had exactly zero problems getting film, television, and stage work in the 25 years since Seinfeld ended. Contrast that with Seinfeld's few non-self-produced appearances, almost always as a character credited as "Himself."
posted by hangashore at 9:40 AM on April 30 [29 favorites]
Also true for Jason Alexander, who appears to have had exactly zero problems getting film, television, and stage work in the 25 years since Seinfeld ended. Contrast that with Seinfeld's few non-self-produced appearances, almost always as a character credited as "Himself."
posted by hangashore at 9:40 AM on April 30 [29 favorites]
Do you think I could get that episode on the air today?
Who fucking cares if you could get it on the air today, you got it on the air 30 years ago. This is like Glenn Danzig complaining that punk couldn't emerge today because of how PC everyone is. Well, good thing that punk emerged 50 years ago, so it doesn't need to come about today. Do these people not understand that time passes? All in the Family did an episode where the racist Archie Bunker meets his new black neighbors. It was a great episode... DECADES AGO... things change, society changes, things that were funny once aren't funny anymore, things that were relevant once aren't anymore. LIKE YOU, JERRY.
Now they’re going to see standup comics because we are not policed by anyone. The audience polices us. We know when we’re off track. We know instantly and we adjust to it instantly.
Says the man who won't play college campuses anymore because he's too afraid to get heckled by the "woke mob."
You know how I know that he knows this is a problem of corporate media production, not wokeness? He did a whole episode about it!
Hell, he did a whole extended storyline about producing a show that gets mucked with by corporate suits until it gets cancelled when the one executive who liked it disappears. He's just whining. "But I don't wannna be an outdated comedian!"
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:40 AM on April 30 [34 favorites]
Who fucking cares if you could get it on the air today, you got it on the air 30 years ago. This is like Glenn Danzig complaining that punk couldn't emerge today because of how PC everyone is. Well, good thing that punk emerged 50 years ago, so it doesn't need to come about today. Do these people not understand that time passes? All in the Family did an episode where the racist Archie Bunker meets his new black neighbors. It was a great episode... DECADES AGO... things change, society changes, things that were funny once aren't funny anymore, things that were relevant once aren't anymore. LIKE YOU, JERRY.
Now they’re going to see standup comics because we are not policed by anyone. The audience polices us. We know when we’re off track. We know instantly and we adjust to it instantly.
Says the man who won't play college campuses anymore because he's too afraid to get heckled by the "woke mob."
You know how I know that he knows this is a problem of corporate media production, not wokeness? He did a whole episode about it!
Hell, he did a whole extended storyline about producing a show that gets mucked with by corporate suits until it gets cancelled when the one executive who liked it disappears. He's just whining. "But I don't wannna be an outdated comedian!"
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:40 AM on April 30 [34 favorites]
I've been enjoying the revival of Night Court.
It's interesting to see how the writers have taken a sitcom from 30 years ago and updated it to be more in line with modern sensibilities without really changing the core concept all that much. It's still a show about weird vignettes playing out in a court room, but now there's a lot fewer jokes about prostitutes and being homeless and Dan Fielding is no longer an arrogant womanizing jerk, he's just an arrogant jerk.
It's not great television, but it is a great example of how you can still do the same comedy while being slightly less offensive to modern viewers.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:41 AM on April 30 [14 favorites]
It's interesting to see how the writers have taken a sitcom from 30 years ago and updated it to be more in line with modern sensibilities without really changing the core concept all that much. It's still a show about weird vignettes playing out in a court room, but now there's a lot fewer jokes about prostitutes and being homeless and Dan Fielding is no longer an arrogant womanizing jerk, he's just an arrogant jerk.
It's not great television, but it is a great example of how you can still do the same comedy while being slightly less offensive to modern viewers.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:41 AM on April 30 [14 favorites]
Literal newspapers were publishing articles in the early 20th Century decrying the fact that Irish-American leagues were making it impossible to tell Irish jokes, which would kill comedy.
Nothing is new. Nothing is killing comedy.
posted by rhymedirective at 9:46 AM on April 30 [22 favorites]
Nothing is new. Nothing is killing comedy.
posted by rhymedirective at 9:46 AM on April 30 [22 favorites]
Ok, this is probably the most I've ever thought about Jerry Seinfeld, but here's the thing: okay, Jerry, everything you're saying is true, there's a "woke mob", they don't want to hear the kind of stuff you're saying. The audience isn't entertained by it? You're an entertainer. You literally have one job. Do it, or shut up.
What are these comedians trying to say? "You're enjoying comedy wrong"? Come the fuck on. This isn't hard. You know what everyone loves? When someone farts into a microphone on stage. It was funny fifty years ago, and it's still funny. Big laughs! Give it a try. Free joke, Jerry.
posted by phooky at 9:48 AM on April 30 [16 favorites]
What are these comedians trying to say? "You're enjoying comedy wrong"? Come the fuck on. This isn't hard. You know what everyone loves? When someone farts into a microphone on stage. It was funny fifty years ago, and it's still funny. Big laughs! Give it a try. Free joke, Jerry.
posted by phooky at 9:48 AM on April 30 [16 favorites]
phhhhphphhhht
pht phttttph
pphhhhhhhhhphhhhphhhhhhhtt
thank you, good night
posted by phooky at 9:49 AM on April 30 [18 favorites]
pht phttttph
pphhhhhhhhhphhhhphhhhhhhtt
thank you, good night
posted by phooky at 9:49 AM on April 30 [18 favorites]
I sure do hope everyone rushes to watch his Poptart alternative-history comedy (I think that's what it is) and makes him even richer.
posted by stevil at 9:59 AM on April 30
posted by stevil at 9:59 AM on April 30
But when you write a script and it goes into four or five different hands, committees, groups—“Here’s our thought about this joke.” Well, that’s the end of your comedy.
The Hayes Code, too, was a leftist plot! It's interesting to listen to the writers from shows like MASH or the Smothers Brothers talk about corporate censorship, because they used it become more creative rather than giving up and saying oh, some committee didn't like our joke.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:03 AM on April 30 [9 favorites]
The Hayes Code, too, was a leftist plot! It's interesting to listen to the writers from shows like MASH or the Smothers Brothers talk about corporate censorship, because they used it become more creative rather than giving up and saying oh, some committee didn't like our joke.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:03 AM on April 30 [9 favorites]
Yeah! Can you imagine thinking up something funny or entertaining and it never getting to air (because it doesn't center white men enough)? Or getting cancelled because it offends people (who find the existence of homosexually offensive)? Or ideas getting cut because some people won't take the joke well (will it play in Peoria)? The 80s and 90s were so much better.
posted by Garm at 10:04 AM on April 30 [8 favorites]
posted by Garm at 10:04 AM on April 30 [8 favorites]
Also true for Jason Alexander, who appears to have had exactly zero problems getting film, television, and stage work in the 25 years since Seinfeld ended.
Some family members just saw his newest show in Chicago, said it was really good.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:13 AM on April 30 [4 favorites]
Some family members just saw his newest show in Chicago, said it was really good.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:13 AM on April 30 [4 favorites]
That's funny that Jerry thinks that comedy is dead or dying, because I've been enjoying comedy a lot more lately, tuning in (a bit late in some cases, but better late than never) to some really excellent comedy by the likes of Taylor Tomlinson, Iliza Shlesinger, Fern Brady, Hannah Gadsby of course... what do they have in common? Wait, it'll come to me, I'm sure.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:22 AM on April 30 [29 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:22 AM on April 30 [29 favorites]
to be fair, and others have pointed this out upthread, something has 'died'
the world Jerry Seinfeld entered as a young adult starting his career, no longer exists. I remember people coordinating their schedules to view Seinfeld together, literally meet in a cramped apartment living room for the show. In fact I did that, for the relaunch of Star Trek: Next Generation, I remember it well.
We can still do that, it's just.. not the same? It's a choice, among many choices, in a way it was a different choice back then. Seinfeld is expressing loss in a way I don't personally vibe with, and it's disappointing, but I want to be charitable at the very least to the view he's struggling with loss. I don't need to like the guy, or his comedy, to get that on a deeply human level. I could be wrong about all this, but I think going through life and trying to see things in a basic human way is not necessarily a bad thing either.
posted by elkevelvet at 10:39 AM on April 30 [7 favorites]
the world Jerry Seinfeld entered as a young adult starting his career, no longer exists. I remember people coordinating their schedules to view Seinfeld together, literally meet in a cramped apartment living room for the show. In fact I did that, for the relaunch of Star Trek: Next Generation, I remember it well.
We can still do that, it's just.. not the same? It's a choice, among many choices, in a way it was a different choice back then. Seinfeld is expressing loss in a way I don't personally vibe with, and it's disappointing, but I want to be charitable at the very least to the view he's struggling with loss. I don't need to like the guy, or his comedy, to get that on a deeply human level. I could be wrong about all this, but I think going through life and trying to see things in a basic human way is not necessarily a bad thing either.
posted by elkevelvet at 10:39 AM on April 30 [7 favorites]
Jason Alexander is still fine, right? Working comedic actor gracefully loses relevance. Louis-Dryfus is kinda old-school nepo-baby but she's beat the hell out of her career and done awesome stuff, which is the only thing that can reasonably redeem a nepo-baby (do your best with your options). Seinfeld is an obnoxious boomer who nonetheless created one of the most important touchstones of genX culture, and put his name on a group effort, as was the style at the time. There's still something magical about the lewd, postmodern sitcom deconstruction that was paired very week with a bland-but-funny, family friendly standup routine on every episode. Really a magic look beneath the hood. And Michael Richardson is your standard gifted comedic actor with anger/control issues and a harbinger of the kind of baked-bigotry and controversy-seeking that proved latent to his peers. The worst thing I heard about the cast as a group is that they got a bit cliquey and diva-ish with their costars. And Larry David seems to be the fifth Beatle that beat that wrap. This is almost ripe for a post-mod murder mystery deconstruction, the kind that became popular in the late 90s and early aughts, actually.
posted by es_de_bah at 10:46 AM on April 30 [3 favorites]
posted by es_de_bah at 10:46 AM on April 30 [3 favorites]
Seinfeld isn't attacking the audience.
He says the audience still loves non-politically-correct material and love that they can still get it from stand-up comics and from streaming of old episodes. Seinfeld doesn't like politically correct or timid suits gatekeeping what current movies and sitcoms do.
Given that Chapelle and Maniscalco sell more standup tickets than every other politically-correct comic put together, and "Friends" and "Seinfeld"* get more streams today than every in-production sitcom put together (probably 2x or 3x), he's got a point.
*Is it true you couldn't make "Friends" or "Seinfeld" today? Certainly a US or UK studio would be unlikely to authorize an all-white four-member or six-member lead cast, but Larry David killed simply by putting JB Smoove in place of Michael Richards in the Kramer-esque role. Seems like you could have an Asian Chandler and an African American Monica? The bigger issue to me is that the profound misanthropy of the "Seinfeld" quartet and the complete lack of economic reality of the "Friends" are a lot harder to translate from the 1990s to 2020s.
posted by MattD at 10:48 AM on April 30 [8 favorites]
He says the audience still loves non-politically-correct material and love that they can still get it from stand-up comics and from streaming of old episodes. Seinfeld doesn't like politically correct or timid suits gatekeeping what current movies and sitcoms do.
Given that Chapelle and Maniscalco sell more standup tickets than every other politically-correct comic put together, and "Friends" and "Seinfeld"* get more streams today than every in-production sitcom put together (probably 2x or 3x), he's got a point.
*Is it true you couldn't make "Friends" or "Seinfeld" today? Certainly a US or UK studio would be unlikely to authorize an all-white four-member or six-member lead cast, but Larry David killed simply by putting JB Smoove in place of Michael Richards in the Kramer-esque role. Seems like you could have an Asian Chandler and an African American Monica? The bigger issue to me is that the profound misanthropy of the "Seinfeld" quartet and the complete lack of economic reality of the "Friends" are a lot harder to translate from the 1990s to 2020s.
posted by MattD at 10:48 AM on April 30 [8 favorites]
The only movie I've ever seen that takes seriously the challenge of "You couldn't make this today!" was Gus Van Sant's Psycho. I don't think it worked, but at least it aimed at something.
Beyond that it's just old men yelling at clouds.
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 10:50 AM on April 30 [4 favorites]
Beyond that it's just old men yelling at clouds.
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 10:50 AM on April 30 [4 favorites]
Jerry Seinfeld was always the least entertaining part of Seinfeld (and the worst actor). He was lucky it had his name on it.
posted by rikschell at 10:52 AM on April 30 [11 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 10:52 AM on April 30 [11 favorites]
[Seinfeld] feels that comedy has been killed by "the extreme left" and "P.C. crap."
That's a shame.
posted by mazola at 10:55 AM on April 30 [18 favorites]
That's a shame.
posted by mazola at 10:55 AM on April 30 [18 favorites]
AFAIK the last time Seinfeld said anything funny was in 1998.
The reason we're not laughing isn't because of "woke" culture. It's because you haven't been funny in a quarter of a century.
Kids are watching and making tons of fresh humor on TikTok. Humor is more alive than ever.
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:58 AM on April 30 [7 favorites]
The reason we're not laughing isn't because of "woke" culture. It's because you haven't been funny in a quarter of a century.
Kids are watching and making tons of fresh humor on TikTok. Humor is more alive than ever.
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:58 AM on April 30 [7 favorites]
I think Sheng Wang is the best counter-example to "it's impossible to do comedy now." I've watched his Netflix special with dozens of people ages 15-75, and all of us laughed all the way through. It's not super tame or dumbed down, either - it's just not punching down.
posted by skullhead at 11:02 AM on April 30 [7 favorites]
posted by skullhead at 11:02 AM on April 30 [7 favorites]
We did an episode of the series in the nineties where Kramer decides to start a business of having homeless people pull rickshaws
I can pretty much guarantee that if Always Sunny did this in an episode it would not only be waayyy funnier, but also strike some social commentary notes that Seinfeld is blind to.
I'm pretty sure that South Park could do this and be funnier than Seinfeld, but also tone deaf about it and somehow less funny than Seinfeld
posted by AzraelBrown at 11:03 AM on April 30 [14 favorites]
I can pretty much guarantee that if Always Sunny did this in an episode it would not only be waayyy funnier, but also strike some social commentary notes that Seinfeld is blind to.
I'm pretty sure that South Park could do this and be funnier than Seinfeld, but also tone deaf about it and somehow less funny than Seinfeld
posted by AzraelBrown at 11:03 AM on April 30 [14 favorites]
Louis-Dryfus is kinda old-school nepo-baby but she's beat the hell out of her career and done awesome stuff, which is the only thing that can reasonably redeem a nepo-baby (do your best with your options)
I don't think there are many comic actresses out there today who wouldn't be very happy to have had her career and her talent. Since her dad wasn't in media and the family's stronghold was France, I'm not even sure she counts as a nepo-baby so much as a trust-funder (if not literally, at least in the sense that she knew she wasn't going to end up homeless for her comedy), but I'll take correction on that, as I'm not intimately familiar with her early bio.
"Friends" and "Seinfeld"* get more streams today than every in-production sitcom put together (probably 2x or 3x), he's got a point.
I think you may be exaggerating this a bit, but, to the extent it's accurate, it's because they have the legacy of actual mass TV-watching behind them, which means they still have name recognition from the time when names could be made.
posted by praemunire at 11:10 AM on April 30 [8 favorites]
I don't think there are many comic actresses out there today who wouldn't be very happy to have had her career and her talent. Since her dad wasn't in media and the family's stronghold was France, I'm not even sure she counts as a nepo-baby so much as a trust-funder (if not literally, at least in the sense that she knew she wasn't going to end up homeless for her comedy), but I'll take correction on that, as I'm not intimately familiar with her early bio.
"Friends" and "Seinfeld"* get more streams today than every in-production sitcom put together (probably 2x or 3x), he's got a point.
I think you may be exaggerating this a bit, but, to the extent it's accurate, it's because they have the legacy of actual mass TV-watching behind them, which means they still have name recognition from the time when names could be made.
posted by praemunire at 11:10 AM on April 30 [8 favorites]
"Friends" and "Seinfeld"* get more streams today than every in-production sitcom put together
Imagine if they'd had streaming 30 years ago and we'd be saying this about Gilligan's Island and The Brady Bunch
posted by hangashore at 11:24 AM on April 30 [16 favorites]
Imagine if they'd had streaming 30 years ago and we'd be saying this about Gilligan's Island and The Brady Bunch
posted by hangashore at 11:24 AM on April 30 [16 favorites]
created one of the most important touchstones of genX culture
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
posted by nickmark at 11:24 AM on April 30 [21 favorites]
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
posted by nickmark at 11:24 AM on April 30 [21 favorites]
It's not that comedy is being smothered by "Wokeness"
It's that there are a lot of lazy comics and they need something to blame other than their crap takes for cheap laughs.
posted by djseafood at 11:27 AM on April 30 [7 favorites]
It's that there are a lot of lazy comics and they need something to blame other than their crap takes for cheap laughs.
posted by djseafood at 11:27 AM on April 30 [7 favorites]
“Out of touch” is reporting him as saying the opposite of what he’s saying. He’s clearly saying that stand-up is thriving, because it’s self-correcting, rather than going through teams of people anxious to ensure that it complies to an endless series of ambiguous rules – i.e., what he terms PC crap. If HE is not a deep thinker, what does that say about the people who completely failed to understand however much depth there was in what he said, because they were so predisposed to look for a boomer stereotype.
posted by lastobelus at 11:28 AM on April 30 [2 favorites]
posted by lastobelus at 11:28 AM on April 30 [2 favorites]
...when you're closer to death than relevance.
posted by phong3d
Brutal, but fair.
Excuse me if I don't feel too sorry for a rich famous person discovering the world has moved on from his decade in the spotlight.
posted by Pouteria at 12:00 PM on April 30 [5 favorites]
posted by phong3d
Brutal, but fair.
Excuse me if I don't feel too sorry for a rich famous person discovering the world has moved on from his decade in the spotlight.
posted by Pouteria at 12:00 PM on April 30 [5 favorites]
I, too, am upset I can't tell the same poopy jokes 8-year-old me thought were hilarious.
Okay, not really. I grew up and so did my jokes. He should try that.
posted by tommasz at 12:26 PM on April 30 [1 favorite]
Okay, not really. I grew up and so did my jokes. He should try that.
posted by tommasz at 12:26 PM on April 30 [1 favorite]
Seinfeld has been on this bullshit for a while, and the weirdest thing about it to me is that Seinfeld's standup has basically never been "edgy" or "provocative" comedy. His best jokes are about like, doing laundry, shopping for groceries, how women love to use cotton balls but nobody knows what they're for. Nobody is protesting Seinfeld's routine because for violating the rules of political correctness.
My guess is he just has a lot of boomer comic friends who want to make jokes about trans people and so are complaining to him a lot, and he's just repeating that because he basically agrees with them.
posted by dis_integration at 12:45 PM on April 30 [13 favorites]
My guess is he just has a lot of boomer comic friends who want to make jokes about trans people and so are complaining to him a lot, and he's just repeating that because he basically agrees with them.
posted by dis_integration at 12:45 PM on April 30 [13 favorites]
He’s clearly saying that stand-up is thriving, because it’s self-correcting, rather than going through teams of people anxious to ensure that it complies to an endless series of ambiguous rules – i.e., what he terms PC crap.
I'm not going to deny that there are lots of ways in which sitcoms might suffer from outside interference, particularly in ways that a comedian might object to, but in choosing to blame it entirely on "the left" and "PC crap" Seinfeld has taken the absolute laziest, most loaded way to describe what's going on.
Alex Hirsch has been pretty open about the unreasonable complaints Disney's Standards and Practices put on Gravity Falls. And as much as he personally finds those requests to be moronic, unnecessary and/or overly sensitive, he never lays the blame on wokeness, political correctness, or some sort of oppressive reframing of culture by the left.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:47 PM on April 30 [13 favorites]
I'm not going to deny that there are lots of ways in which sitcoms might suffer from outside interference, particularly in ways that a comedian might object to, but in choosing to blame it entirely on "the left" and "PC crap" Seinfeld has taken the absolute laziest, most loaded way to describe what's going on.
Alex Hirsch has been pretty open about the unreasonable complaints Disney's Standards and Practices put on Gravity Falls. And as much as he personally finds those requests to be moronic, unnecessary and/or overly sensitive, he never lays the blame on wokeness, political correctness, or some sort of oppressive reframing of culture by the left.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:47 PM on April 30 [13 favorites]
What's ironic is that Seinfeld, for many years, fought against the stigma that his comedy lacks an edge, because unlike other members of his industry he won't "work blue." The persistent theme seemed to be that he sticks with anodyne, vanilla topics that don't push the envelope because he won't stray into offensive or politically incorrect comedy.
People forget how people viewed Seinfeld at the time. He was a very mild comedian. This SNL skit, which originally aired over 30 years ago on a show that Seinfeld himself hosted, basically roasts Seinfeld's entire style of gentle observational humor as totally formulaic. If that's not relevant now, it's not because of P.C., but because stand-up has evolved a great deal & it has left Jerry Seinfeld behind.
Jerry Seinfeld wasn't really the comedic auteur behind Seinfeld anyway. In retrospect, the true comedic voice behind the show was Larry David. He's the one that did the bulk of the writing and set the style of the show, not Seinfeld. Although they included excerpts from Seinfeld's act in the intros from the early seasons, the show as a whole was a lot different from Jerry's actual stand-up act.
posted by jonp72 at 12:51 PM on April 30 [6 favorites]
People forget how people viewed Seinfeld at the time. He was a very mild comedian. This SNL skit, which originally aired over 30 years ago on a show that Seinfeld himself hosted, basically roasts Seinfeld's entire style of gentle observational humor as totally formulaic. If that's not relevant now, it's not because of P.C., but because stand-up has evolved a great deal & it has left Jerry Seinfeld behind.
Jerry Seinfeld wasn't really the comedic auteur behind Seinfeld anyway. In retrospect, the true comedic voice behind the show was Larry David. He's the one that did the bulk of the writing and set the style of the show, not Seinfeld. Although they included excerpts from Seinfeld's act in the intros from the early seasons, the show as a whole was a lot different from Jerry's actual stand-up act.
posted by jonp72 at 12:51 PM on April 30 [6 favorites]
18 Jokes That Would Get Jerry Seinfeld Canceled Today
ok I laughed.
posted by mazola at 12:51 PM on April 30 [20 favorites]
ok I laughed.
posted by mazola at 12:51 PM on April 30 [20 favorites]
Seinfeld was by far the least-funny comedian I've seen perform live. I'm not sure what I expected — a bluer set than you'd think you'd get, à la Bob Saget? But no. He's a guy who's got fuck-you amounts of cash and he doesn't need to do anything he's doing.
posted by emelenjr at 1:10 PM on April 30
posted by emelenjr at 1:10 PM on April 30
I never liked Seinfeld a whole lot because the characters were so deeply unlikable. Now I realize that's because Alexander, Dreyfus and Richards are gifted actors, and Jerry Seinfeld is genuinely deeply unlikable.
posted by slogger at 1:24 PM on April 30 [4 favorites]
posted by slogger at 1:24 PM on April 30 [4 favorites]
Now I realize that's because Alexander, Dreyfus and Richards are gifted actors, and Jerry Seinfeld is genuinely deeply unlikable.I haven't seen him in enough other material to judge his merits as an actor but Michael Richards also staked out a pretty strong claim for "genuinely unlikable".
posted by Nerd of the North at 2:23 PM on April 30 [10 favorites]
God that show had some of the best comedic pacing and writing, and all Jerry did was smirk and say his lines. Julia and Jason and (sigh) Michael, plus Jerry fucking Stiller, Estelle Harris, Wayne Knight...a fucking amazing cast, killing it every week, and yeah, the jokes would be different now, because a big chunk of the bits were about things that wouldn't happen if you had a cellphone. But not because of wokeness!
(I need the Seinfeld Season 10 Twitter account to come over to Bluesky, there were some good ones:
Jerry gets a CSA share, has trouble using up his kohlrabi; Elaine takes it to work. Hoping to meet women, George goes to the Brooklyn Flea.
It's irritating that Seinfeld doesn't know how lucky he was and how much other people did the work that made that show good.
But it IS very fitting, in a Larry David way, that he doesn't know how much he sucks.
posted by emjaybee at 2:27 PM on April 30 [11 favorites]
(I need the Seinfeld Season 10 Twitter account to come over to Bluesky, there were some good ones:
Jerry gets a CSA share, has trouble using up his kohlrabi; Elaine takes it to work. Hoping to meet women, George goes to the Brooklyn Flea.
It's irritating that Seinfeld doesn't know how lucky he was and how much other people did the work that made that show good.
But it IS very fitting, in a Larry David way, that he doesn't know how much he sucks.
posted by emjaybee at 2:27 PM on April 30 [11 favorites]
Is there something that makes comedians particularly likely to turn into this kind of asshole, past a certain age? John Cleese has also apparently decided to devote his golden years to being a Cancel Culture crybaby. I would dearly like John Cleese to not turn out to be one of these imbeciles; I don't have heroes and try not to admire people if at all possible, but if I was gonna make an exception he'd have been near the top of the list.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:39 PM on April 30 [5 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:39 PM on April 30 [5 favorites]
Seinfeld is one of my favorite tv shows of all time. I watch it almost every day. Jerry is one of the most boring comics ever. I routinely wonder how such a lame doofus ever got so famous. It's also super on point that one of the running gags in Seinfeld is that no one thinks Jerry (the character) is funny and all his friends and family are a bit mystified by his success.
posted by Glibpaxman at 2:41 PM on April 30 [5 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 2:41 PM on April 30 [5 favorites]
Is there something that makes comedians particularly likely to turn into this kind of asshole, past a certain age?
I think it's the money! Money and being completely insulated from anything you don't want to see, do, think, or feel.
I've been doing a rewatch of Curb Your Enthusiasm from the beginning, and it's really striking how much these (thinly fictionalized?) elder comedians are out of touch with the rest of society. Almost like a Fox News caricature of "Hollywood elites." The overreactions to minor breaches in etiquette, the extreme sensitivity to things like not having enough shrimp in your takeout order, panicking over feeling "snubbed" or not having enough people attend your charity event...I know these are fictional scenarios written for comedy, but there are big kernels of reality in there. They're aggrieved!! And it's rarely ever their fault, of course.
It's just their milieu and it wouldn't occur to them to not complain.
posted by knotty knots at 2:53 PM on April 30 [9 favorites]
I think it's the money! Money and being completely insulated from anything you don't want to see, do, think, or feel.
I've been doing a rewatch of Curb Your Enthusiasm from the beginning, and it's really striking how much these (thinly fictionalized?) elder comedians are out of touch with the rest of society. Almost like a Fox News caricature of "Hollywood elites." The overreactions to minor breaches in etiquette, the extreme sensitivity to things like not having enough shrimp in your takeout order, panicking over feeling "snubbed" or not having enough people attend your charity event...I know these are fictional scenarios written for comedy, but there are big kernels of reality in there. They're aggrieved!! And it's rarely ever their fault, of course.
It's just their milieu and it wouldn't occur to them to not complain.
posted by knotty knots at 2:53 PM on April 30 [9 favorites]
Hangashore, before they went into syndication, Seinfeld and Friends had far greater viewership than the syndicated viewership (at that time) of any of the classic sitcom of the 60s, 70s or 80s, and that lead increased once they, too, went into syndication. Seinfeld and Friend's legs in syndication and then in streaming since they went off the air 20+ years ago have been exceptional. None of the top-rated sitcoms before or since have come close. The situation which prevails today would be as if I Dream of Jeannie or Bewitched had in 1996 10x the viewship of Seinfeld or Friends.
posted by MattD at 4:47 PM on April 30 [2 favorites]
posted by MattD at 4:47 PM on April 30 [2 favorites]
I think that, for a great many standup comics, there’s often a strain of self-loathing that sometimes, but always, shows up in their material. Now, I’m not exactly saying that self-hatred plus money equals misanthropy, but I’m also not not saying it.
posted by box at 4:48 PM on April 30 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 4:48 PM on April 30 [2 favorites]
The 90's and early aughts were a different time. Lots of anti-LGBTQ sentiment, gay-bashing, not-subtle racism and certainly an elitism all mixed in to common culture. I don't think I can watch, say, teen comedies from the 90's with my teens today, they'd be appalled at the misogyny, homophobia and ethnocentrism. It was even worse in the 70's and 80's...
Just like watching Looney Tunes or early Disney cartoons/movies, the times have changed, and of course, humor will change with it. Check out the Three Stooges or Little Rascals sometime...a lot to unpack in those shows.
It's a pretty bad take, if you get upset about "woke" or "PC" responses to humor that is, by today's standards, not funny. I mean, even in the 90's, you didn't see Seinfeld doing a bit with a full-on minstrel show, for instance, but also not a lot of black people on the show, right? Most of the humor was hetero/white/yuppie types, with a mix of Jewish guilt and "white people common sense."
Seinfeld seems to be channeling his inner Bill Maher here, you know the type...hey, we're white men who pretend to be open-minded, but don't force us to face our privilege, that's a bridge too far.
Good humor will always offend someone. Offensive humor seldom ages well. Dated humor, mixed with modern context, is always a mixed bag. If it's funny, people will get it. I still get a kick out of I Love Lucy, for instance, but watch American Pie with your queer teenaged daughter and see if they think it's funny. Or Superbad.
posted by Chuffy at 7:08 PM on April 30 [11 favorites]
Just like watching Looney Tunes or early Disney cartoons/movies, the times have changed, and of course, humor will change with it. Check out the Three Stooges or Little Rascals sometime...a lot to unpack in those shows.
It's a pretty bad take, if you get upset about "woke" or "PC" responses to humor that is, by today's standards, not funny. I mean, even in the 90's, you didn't see Seinfeld doing a bit with a full-on minstrel show, for instance, but also not a lot of black people on the show, right? Most of the humor was hetero/white/yuppie types, with a mix of Jewish guilt and "white people common sense."
Seinfeld seems to be channeling his inner Bill Maher here, you know the type...hey, we're white men who pretend to be open-minded, but don't force us to face our privilege, that's a bridge too far.
Good humor will always offend someone. Offensive humor seldom ages well. Dated humor, mixed with modern context, is always a mixed bag. If it's funny, people will get it. I still get a kick out of I Love Lucy, for instance, but watch American Pie with your queer teenaged daughter and see if they think it's funny. Or Superbad.
posted by Chuffy at 7:08 PM on April 30 [11 favorites]
big words from the guy who dated a 17 year old when he was in his late 30s.
edit: oops this is mentioned at the bottom of the linked article.
mods feel free to delete this comment.
posted by atom128 at 7:53 PM on April 30 [4 favorites]
edit: oops this is mentioned at the bottom of the linked article.
mods feel free to delete this comment.
posted by atom128 at 7:53 PM on April 30 [4 favorites]
I get so angry when teens don't laugh at my jokes about Betamax vs VHS. Woke culture has gone too far.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:20 PM on April 30 [10 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:20 PM on April 30 [10 favorites]
From what I can recall, Jerry started down the path to bravely denouncing the massive leftist bloc that rules our country like the worst of Stalinist Russia when he got heat over his joke about (I think) people's grand flourishes when scrolling through their phones as like a "gay French king." It may have been a different activity, but definitely the issue was his use of "gay" in a pejorative manner/context. I think he complained about it on one or more talk shows maybe... 10 years ago? or as few as 5? I don't recall exactly. But yeah, that really bothered him, and it was the first time I heard him extensively complaining about overly sensitive college students, P.C. gone mad, ad nauseum conservativus avuncular.
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:17 PM on April 30 [3 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:17 PM on April 30 [3 favorites]
Hopefully, this is the last time we discuss uncle pervy and his views on society.
posted by nofundy at 2:39 AM on May 1
posted by nofundy at 2:39 AM on May 1
I have never seen an episode of Seinfeld. Am I the hack?
posted by Captaintripps at 4:31 AM on May 1
posted by Captaintripps at 4:31 AM on May 1
Seinfeld was never a show about nothing, it was a show about ridiculing people who don't conform. It is about as anti-woke as possible. It's like the evil mirror universe version of All in the Family, I guess. Like how Seinfeld himself is the evil mirror universe version of Billy Crystal.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:50 AM on May 1 [4 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:50 AM on May 1 [4 favorites]
I'd counter that it might have been a show ridiculing selfish people who choose not to adjust their priors when confronted with information that might call their behavior into question. So many episodes of Seinfeld hinge on a character feeling outraged because someone has the nerve to lightly criticize something they did or believe and then said character goes to ridiculous lengths to demonstrate that they're the "normal" one and the rest of the world is unreasonable.
With the passage of time however, it's definitely become a show celebrating a certain kind of person who refuses to grow up and live in the present.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:37 AM on May 1 [3 favorites]
With the passage of time however, it's definitely become a show celebrating a certain kind of person who refuses to grow up and live in the present.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:37 AM on May 1 [3 favorites]
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
Today you could not show the guy in the iron lung because, you know man, PC.
posted by DJZouke at 5:39 AM on May 1 [3 favorites]
Today you could not show the guy in the iron lung because, you know man, PC.
posted by DJZouke at 5:39 AM on May 1 [3 favorites]
TBC. One can not say anything remotely offensive about anyone since it will be deemed as intentionally hurtful and harmful. It really limits humor in so many ways that it seems pointless even to try. I won't even mention comedians at colleges. Or comedians in cars having coffee at colleges. I guess that I will just have to laugh at myself. Or maybe that is prohibited now too?
posted by DJZouke at 5:51 AM on May 1
posted by DJZouke at 5:51 AM on May 1
I guess that I will just have to laugh at myself. Or maybe that is prohibited now too?
Absolutely it is, because of Woke.
posted by an octopus IRL at 5:55 AM on May 1 [7 favorites]
Absolutely it is, because of Woke.
posted by an octopus IRL at 5:55 AM on May 1 [7 favorites]
Rules for comedy that doesn't suck: punching down is bad, punching yourself is questionable, it's always ok to punch up.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:57 AM on May 1 [8 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:57 AM on May 1 [8 favorites]
TBC. One can not say anything remotely offensive about anyone since it will be deemed as intentionally hurtful and harmful. It really limits humor in so many ways that it seems pointless even to try. I won't even mention comedians at colleges. Or comedians in cars having coffee at colleges. I guess that I will just have to laugh at myself. Or maybe that is prohibited now too?
What is it you want to say that "they" won't let you say (without consequences)?
posted by grubi at 5:57 AM on May 1 [7 favorites]
What is it you want to say that "they" won't let you say (without consequences)?
posted by grubi at 5:57 AM on May 1 [7 favorites]
Nothing is new. Nothing is killing comedy.
Not only that, but this exact same story made the rounds nine years ago, when he apparently did the college comedy circuit, didn't do well, and blamed it on the kids.
posted by Melismata at 8:21 AM on May 1 [3 favorites]
Not only that, but this exact same story made the rounds nine years ago, when he apparently did the college comedy circuit, didn't do well, and blamed it on the kids.
posted by Melismata at 8:21 AM on May 1 [3 favorites]
Rules for comedy that doesn't suck:
Don't do impressions of people from different... you know what, just don't do impressions.
posted by box at 9:19 AM on May 1 [1 favorite]
Don't do impressions of people from different... you know what, just don't do impressions.
posted by box at 9:19 AM on May 1 [1 favorite]
just don't do impressions
a very long time ago I worked at a record store and made a few friendships, one of my coworkers apparently did an impression of me when I wasn't around
she never would 'perform' it for me, but even mentioning it would cause everyone to lose their shit. I'm sure it was a bit mean-spirited, but nothing I didn't deserve. anyhow, I'm okay with impressions if they aren't super shitty. they can poke fun in a loving kind of, mean kind of, way
posted by elkevelvet at 10:16 AM on May 1
a very long time ago I worked at a record store and made a few friendships, one of my coworkers apparently did an impression of me when I wasn't around
she never would 'perform' it for me, but even mentioning it would cause everyone to lose their shit. I'm sure it was a bit mean-spirited, but nothing I didn't deserve. anyhow, I'm okay with impressions if they aren't super shitty. they can poke fun in a loving kind of, mean kind of, way
posted by elkevelvet at 10:16 AM on May 1
I listened to the David Remnick interview before this post and I thought yuck. And David Remnick behaved like a total sycophant during the entire interview. Compare that with his interviews with GOP Brad Raffensperger where there was a lot of pushback on bullshit. I hate the media.
Also, as others mentioned above Seinfeld benefited tremendously by the great cast surrounding the milquetoast, no talent Jerry Seinfeld. I watched every weekly episode when it was on (when that was a thing).
Lastly, Marc Maron has commented extensively on his podcast about the bullshit comedians who are claiming censorship of comedy.
posted by bluesky43 at 11:21 AM on May 1
Also, as others mentioned above Seinfeld benefited tremendously by the great cast surrounding the milquetoast, no talent Jerry Seinfeld. I watched every weekly episode when it was on (when that was a thing).
Lastly, Marc Maron has commented extensively on his podcast about the bullshit comedians who are claiming censorship of comedy.
posted by bluesky43 at 11:21 AM on May 1
Exclusive: Seinfeld Pop Tarts Movie Shows First Ever Satire of January 6th as Cereal Characters Attack Kellogg's HQ.
posted by armacy at 11:23 AM on May 1 [1 favorite]
posted by armacy at 11:23 AM on May 1 [1 favorite]
"What is it you want to say that "they" won't let you say (without consequences)?" I lost my sense of smell and taste over 4 years ago. So there's that. I have a built in censor that does not always function. I have said things in the past that I have regretted. I have always tried to apologize. Not really up for an argument now. Sometimes silence is best.
posted by DJZouke at 11:23 AM on May 1
posted by DJZouke at 11:23 AM on May 1
> Also true for Jason Alexander, who appears to have had exactly zero problems getting film, television, and stage work in the 25 years since Seinfeld ended
My favourite role of his is the mustachioed and platinum-coiffed serial killer in the Criminal Minds episode "Masterpiece" just for the pure absurdity of it.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 12:06 PM on May 1 [6 favorites]
My favourite role of his is the mustachioed and platinum-coiffed serial killer in the Criminal Minds episode "Masterpiece" just for the pure absurdity of it.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 12:06 PM on May 1 [6 favorites]
There are an infinite number of subjects on which to base comedy. Remove all of the content that involves hating on marginalized groups of people and you still have an infinite number of subjects on which to base comedy.
Seinfeld, king of the observational joke about airline food, should be perfectly aware of this.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:27 PM on May 1 [3 favorites]
Seinfeld, king of the observational joke about airline food, should be perfectly aware of this.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:27 PM on May 1 [3 favorites]
fart jokes are right there, people
they tell me I'm immature, I say Yes but you have less charisma than a sick dog's fart
posted by elkevelvet at 12:36 PM on May 1 [1 favorite]
they tell me I'm immature, I say Yes but you have less charisma than a sick dog's fart
posted by elkevelvet at 12:36 PM on May 1 [1 favorite]
Regarding Jerry himself, my impression from watching this recent clip of him talking about his experience in Tel Aviv is that he's not a deep thinker.
Trevor Noah was one of the guests on Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. In that episode Noah mentioned his upbringing and Jerry expressed amazement that the government could say who people could and couldn't marry. He didn't seem to be doing this as a joke where he was offering his own ignorance as the punchline; and Noah seemed genuinely exasperated and incredulous in his response ("That's what apartheid is, Jerry").
Seinfeld is not a deep thinker, no. He's wealthy and insular and clueless. His shtick used to be that much of the world was bewildering, but the world seeming bewildering is a natural result of being wealthy and insular and clueless. Not engaging with the world as it is doesn't really present you with fertile ground for writing comedy; it just means that your observations won't resonate with anyone who's less clueless than you are.
Of course Seinfeld feels like he got canceled, but he did it to himself--steadily, continually, over decades. And even now he'd rather continue doing it to himself, because the alternative is to admit that he made a mistake and has a lot of learning to do. He'd rather stick with the shtick.
posted by johnofjack at 1:36 PM on May 1 [14 favorites]
Trevor Noah was one of the guests on Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. In that episode Noah mentioned his upbringing and Jerry expressed amazement that the government could say who people could and couldn't marry. He didn't seem to be doing this as a joke where he was offering his own ignorance as the punchline; and Noah seemed genuinely exasperated and incredulous in his response ("That's what apartheid is, Jerry").
Seinfeld is not a deep thinker, no. He's wealthy and insular and clueless. His shtick used to be that much of the world was bewildering, but the world seeming bewildering is a natural result of being wealthy and insular and clueless. Not engaging with the world as it is doesn't really present you with fertile ground for writing comedy; it just means that your observations won't resonate with anyone who's less clueless than you are.
Of course Seinfeld feels like he got canceled, but he did it to himself--steadily, continually, over decades. And even now he'd rather continue doing it to himself, because the alternative is to admit that he made a mistake and has a lot of learning to do. He'd rather stick with the shtick.
posted by johnofjack at 1:36 PM on May 1 [14 favorites]
The concept was new to me before reading this thread but after scrolling down and down the idea of yelling at clouds begins to make sense.
posted by y2karl at 4:09 PM on May 1
posted by y2karl at 4:09 PM on May 1
From the New Yorker interview: We did an episode of the series in the nineties where Kramer decides to start a business of having homeless people pull rickshaws because, as he says, “They’re outside anyway.” Do you think I could get that episode on the air today?
You know I kind of feel this. As a 57 year old I can no longer BMX bike to the local convenience store with my friends and clean out all their 19cent glass cola bottles because we have cracked the marker colour codes the distributors put on the bottle lids so one store didn't get all the colas with free bottle cap liners. Time's a thief.
The big difference is I don't call the cops about it.
posted by srboisvert at 4:16 PM on May 1 [2 favorites]
You know I kind of feel this. As a 57 year old I can no longer BMX bike to the local convenience store with my friends and clean out all their 19cent glass cola bottles because we have cracked the marker colour codes the distributors put on the bottle lids so one store didn't get all the colas with free bottle cap liners. Time's a thief.
The big difference is I don't call the cops about it.
posted by srboisvert at 4:16 PM on May 1 [2 favorites]
18 Jokes That Would Get Jerry Seinfeld Canceled Today
ok I laughed.
Imagining him saying those lines is probably funnier than actually hearing him. Most I've laughed at his stuff in a long time, and I quote that show at least 5 times a day, even if I haven't interacted with a live human.
posted by Saxon Kane at 8:55 PM on May 1
ok I laughed.
Imagining him saying those lines is probably funnier than actually hearing him. Most I've laughed at his stuff in a long time, and I quote that show at least 5 times a day, even if I haven't interacted with a live human.
posted by Saxon Kane at 8:55 PM on May 1
Jerry's wife just donated 5k to the pro Israel rally that beat the shit out of peaceful protestors at UCLA while the cops watched.
posted by zymil at 2:56 AM on May 2 [1 favorite]
posted by zymil at 2:56 AM on May 2 [1 favorite]
NPR interview, in which the v relatable Seinfeld talks about his movie about cereal and how Tony Bennett taught him the word 'sprezzatura,' which Jerry went on to name a boat.
posted by box at 4:28 AM on May 2
posted by box at 4:28 AM on May 2
Jerry's wife just donated 5k to the pro Israel rally that beat the shit out of peaceful protestors at UCLA while the cops watched.
I don't know if it's my mood but that erases any remnant of memory of having enjoyed any segment of Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee
life really does get shittier as you go
posted by elkevelvet at 7:23 AM on May 2 [1 favorite]
I don't know if it's my mood but that erases any remnant of memory of having enjoyed any segment of Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee
life really does get shittier as you go
posted by elkevelvet at 7:23 AM on May 2 [1 favorite]
Jerry Seinfeld's forte was always slice of life observational humour. He never had a political grasp and Seinfeld has a lot of problematic material in it. I suspect his wealth and celebrity has insulated him from ever growing or learning and that he's consequently become increasingly out of touch with the world -- and a comedian must keep their finger on the pulse of their society in order to stay relevant and funny.
And yeah, Jerry was never the funniest thing, or even a solid hitter, on Seinfeld. He can't act. George and his parents provided at least half the laughs on that show.
I've never forgotten one anecdote I read about how an actor who was a POC had a role in an episode of Seinfeld which he was expected to play in a way he thought was a racist stereotype. He had another way to do it that he thought would be funnier, and did his best to convince Jerry to let him do it that way. He said Julia Louis Dreyfuss and Jason Alexander were very supportive towards him, while Michael Richards just told him that if he didn't do it the way Jerry wanted him to, he'd be fired, and in the end that's basically what it boiled down to, so he played it the way Jerry wanted it.
posted by orange swan at 11:52 AM on May 3 [1 favorite]
And yeah, Jerry was never the funniest thing, or even a solid hitter, on Seinfeld. He can't act. George and his parents provided at least half the laughs on that show.
I've never forgotten one anecdote I read about how an actor who was a POC had a role in an episode of Seinfeld which he was expected to play in a way he thought was a racist stereotype. He had another way to do it that he thought would be funnier, and did his best to convince Jerry to let him do it that way. He said Julia Louis Dreyfuss and Jason Alexander were very supportive towards him, while Michael Richards just told him that if he didn't do it the way Jerry wanted him to, he'd be fired, and in the end that's basically what it boiled down to, so he played it the way Jerry wanted it.
posted by orange swan at 11:52 AM on May 3 [1 favorite]
Students Walk Out in Protest at Duke Before Seinfeld Speech (NYT)
posted by box at 11:51 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 11:51 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]
« Older JZD Slušovice — A Socialist Miracle in... | Re-light my fire Newer »
posted by humbug at 8:33 AM on April 30 [8 favorites]