Corruption Put to Good Use
March 28, 2018 5:43 AM Subscribe
It turns out that, yes, the number of cheeses a country makes correlates with political instability. The EU cheese stability index from Politico
As a cheese hater I feel vindicated by this report.
posted by enn at 6:03 AM on March 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by enn at 6:03 AM on March 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
Sigh... Has this been adjusted for population size? Because while 20 types of cheese for Luxemberg seems "small", their population is only ~600k... Whereas G.B. is 65 million people for... 700 kinds of cheese...
posted by jkaczor at 6:03 AM on March 28, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by jkaczor at 6:03 AM on March 28, 2018 [10 favorites]
This chart is all rind and no paste.
Also,
As a cheese hater
...you are a Monster.
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:07 AM on March 28, 2018 [18 favorites]
Also,
As a cheese hater
...you are a Monster.
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:07 AM on March 28, 2018 [18 favorites]
Blessed are the cheese makers.
posted by gingerbeer at 6:11 AM on March 28, 2018 [21 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 6:11 AM on March 28, 2018 [21 favorites]
With the right equipment plus a little rennet and salt, you can turn a gallon of raw correlation into about a pound of causation in your own kitchen.
posted by gauche at 6:15 AM on March 28, 2018 [39 favorites]
posted by gauche at 6:15 AM on March 28, 2018 [39 favorites]
1200?! My bucket list just got a lot longer.
May I live long and never become lactose intolerant.
posted by thivaia at 6:18 AM on March 28, 2018 [7 favorites]
May I live long and never become lactose intolerant.
posted by thivaia at 6:18 AM on March 28, 2018 [7 favorites]
The political stability index for one year seems like an absurdly noisy measure, but I wonder if cheese varieties can be a decent proxy for localism, which would be in conflict with a centralized state.
posted by Kattullus at 6:21 AM on March 28, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 6:21 AM on March 28, 2018 [12 favorites]
The political stability index for one year seems like an absurdly noisy measure, but I wonder if cheese varieties can be a decent proxy for localism, which would be in conflict with a centralized state.
Yes, either localism as an ideological/political value, or localism as an emergent feature of the economy due to, e.g., geographic features such as the Alps, which, it occurs to me as I write this, might easily translate into localism as a political value.
I'd also like to see whether the trend holds when you subtract out the example of France, which is an outlier on both axes.
posted by gauche at 6:26 AM on March 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
Yes, either localism as an ideological/political value, or localism as an emergent feature of the economy due to, e.g., geographic features such as the Alps, which, it occurs to me as I write this, might easily translate into localism as a political value.
I'd also like to see whether the trend holds when you subtract out the example of France, which is an outlier on both axes.
posted by gauche at 6:26 AM on March 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
If we lived in a happier time, this would cry out for a comic thriller - some kind of cheese-destabilization plot, a debonair international spy, lots of fine dining and casinos and regional color and cheese heists. You'd probably have to make up countries - perhaps two tiny principalities somewhere in the Alps, both established in the year dot, both tiny and rich with lots of tourism and casinos and a basically harmless rivalry.
posted by Frowner at 6:28 AM on March 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 6:28 AM on March 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
Ok, the graph and project may be scientifically bad, but you have to admit it's a fantastic infographic, conceptually.
posted by gusandrews at 6:36 AM on March 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by gusandrews at 6:36 AM on March 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
Jasper Fforde's prescience continues to astound!
posted by inconstant at 6:50 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by inconstant at 6:50 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
My first reaction was the same as Kattullus'.
My second reaction was: why isn't the y axis logarithmic?
posted by ragtag at 6:53 AM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
My second reaction was: why isn't the y axis logarithmic?
posted by ragtag at 6:53 AM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
The former president articulated the despair of French officials throughout history when he said, “How can you govern a country which has 246 varieties of cheese?”
*puts on bib*
*lights fondue burner*
*tests sharpness of fondue fork*
Can I see a scatter plot of bread and crudites before we attempt to answer that?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:58 AM on March 28, 2018 [9 favorites]
*puts on bib*
*lights fondue burner*
*tests sharpness of fondue fork*
Can I see a scatter plot of bread and crudites before we attempt to answer that?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:58 AM on March 28, 2018 [9 favorites]
Should Cheese density of a country be calculated on a percapita basis or percowpita?
posted by Nanukthedog at 6:58 AM on March 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 6:58 AM on March 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
700 different cheeses in Great Britain? Sorry, but I'm dubious.
In my (admittedly anecdotal) experience, Great Britain may claim to have all kinds of different cheeses, but when you actually ask for one, there's always some excuse. It's on order, or the van broke down, or it only comes in fresh on Monday, or it's gone runny, or the cat's eaten it. I'm not convinced they've got any cheese at all, frankly.
posted by Naberius at 7:18 AM on March 28, 2018 [30 favorites]
In my (admittedly anecdotal) experience, Great Britain may claim to have all kinds of different cheeses, but when you actually ask for one, there's always some excuse. It's on order, or the van broke down, or it only comes in fresh on Monday, or it's gone runny, or the cat's eaten it. I'm not convinced they've got any cheese at all, frankly.
posted by Naberius at 7:18 AM on March 28, 2018 [30 favorites]
Great Britain has 700 different kinds of cheese because we stole them from all over the empire.
posted by cstross at 7:28 AM on March 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by cstross at 7:28 AM on March 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
So this is why Wisconsin is slouching towards revolution.
posted by drezdn at 7:29 AM on March 28, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 7:29 AM on March 28, 2018 [12 favorites]
> Naberius:
"700 different cheeses in Great Britain? Sorry, but I'm dubious.
In my (admittedly anecdotal) experience, Great Britain may claim to have all kinds of different cheeses, but when you actually ask for one, there's always some excuse. It's on order, or the van broke down, or it only comes in fresh on Monday, or it's gone runny, or the cat's eaten it. I'm not convinced they've got any cheese at all, frankly."
Well, you and the Pythons believe...
posted by Samizdata at 7:29 AM on March 28, 2018
"700 different cheeses in Great Britain? Sorry, but I'm dubious.
In my (admittedly anecdotal) experience, Great Britain may claim to have all kinds of different cheeses, but when you actually ask for one, there's always some excuse. It's on order, or the van broke down, or it only comes in fresh on Monday, or it's gone runny, or the cat's eaten it. I'm not convinced they've got any cheese at all, frankly."
Well, you and the Pythons believe...
posted by Samizdata at 7:29 AM on March 28, 2018
Great Britain has 700 different kinds of cheese because we stole them from all over the empire.
That is entirely consistent with my longstanding theory that the British Empire was all about food.
posted by Naberius at 7:31 AM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
That is entirely consistent with my longstanding theory that the British Empire was all about food.
posted by Naberius at 7:31 AM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'll take my Big Mac Index topped with the Cheese Stability Index please.
posted by mfoight at 7:41 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by mfoight at 7:41 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
So Monty Python needs to rewrite their sketch:
"Have you in fact got any cheese here at all?"
"No, sir. We're a politically stable country, sir."
"Oh well. I'll have to rewrite the ending of this sketch and not shoot you, then."
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 7:46 AM on March 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
"Have you in fact got any cheese here at all?"
"No, sir. We're a politically stable country, sir."
"Oh well. I'll have to rewrite the ending of this sketch and not shoot you, then."
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 7:46 AM on March 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
Ah, crap. Samizdata beat me to it.
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 7:48 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 7:48 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Liebe Gruß from Austria! The idea that Austria has 400 cheeses is absolute bullshit, as all the cow cheese here tastes the same (like Gouda), but with various different amounts of holes and straw on the sides.
On a related note, if you happen to be within a days drive of Oberosterrich and have a supply of Wensleydale, call me.
posted by The River Ivel at 8:16 AM on March 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
On a related note, if you happen to be within a days drive of Oberosterrich and have a supply of Wensleydale, call me.
posted by The River Ivel at 8:16 AM on March 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
GenjiandProust: ... you are a Monster
Don’t you mean “Muenster”?
posted by dr_dank at 8:17 AM on March 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
Don’t you mean “Muenster”?
posted by dr_dank at 8:17 AM on March 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
As long as there are always grilled cheese sandwiches.
posted by Melismata at 8:20 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 8:20 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Good lord this graph is fucking stupid. Not sure which sin is worse. Drawing a scatterplot and then a suggestive line through it, but not reporting the correlation coefficient? Taking some ridiculous short term measure of stability and pretending it's meaningful? (In 2011 France would have scored 0.6 and still had 1200 cheeses.) Or maybe it's leaving out Switzerland, which admittedly is not part of the EU but sure seems an important comparable. They have 450 cheeses and a stability index of 1.32.
I realize taking a fluffy bit of clickbait like this seriously is a fool's errand, but this kind of thing makes me mad. Maybe this article is intended as a parody of data journalism?
posted by Nelson at 8:23 AM on March 28, 2018 [8 favorites]
I realize taking a fluffy bit of clickbait like this seriously is a fool's errand, but this kind of thing makes me mad. Maybe this article is intended as a parody of data journalism?
posted by Nelson at 8:23 AM on March 28, 2018 [8 favorites]
If we lived in a happier time, this would cry out for a comic thriller
Or another AskMe or MeTa....
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:49 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Or another AskMe or MeTa....
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:49 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is a great fun piece, thanks for posting.
I wonder what happens if you factor in wine.
In my (admittedly anecdotal) experience, Great Britain may claim to have all kinds of different cheeses, but when you actually ask for one, there's always some excuse.
At least it's not really made from horsemeat.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 8:53 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
I wonder what happens if you factor in wine.
In my (admittedly anecdotal) experience, Great Britain may claim to have all kinds of different cheeses, but when you actually ask for one, there's always some excuse.
At least it's not really made from horsemeat.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 8:53 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
another completely obvious, common-sensey, regression-free causal factor is that most of China is lactose intolerant and China is the second largest trading partner with the EU
posted by runt at 8:54 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by runt at 8:54 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
That brings up an interesting question, runt... does anyone here know what the Chinese version of foodstuff-that-every-village-makes-differently is?
posted by Kattullus at 9:18 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Kattullus at 9:18 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Fermented bean curd is my guess, but it's not all that popular. Recipes must be numerous and bacteria or whatever probably vary by location. (Taiwan has the best IMO.)
posted by pjmoy at 9:29 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by pjmoy at 9:29 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
yeah, it's literally anything and everything involving all kinds of food and teas: Beijing duck, Sichuan hot pot, Dongbei's skewers
you're better off categorizing by region than individual village. there is some uniqueness with fermented products (see Sandor Kraut's super excellent Republic of Fermentation series) but 4000+ years of continuous civilization demarcated by lots of inter-regional strife and a long, long, long system of class inequality removes the village as a producer of culture
posted by runt at 9:30 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
you're better off categorizing by region than individual village. there is some uniqueness with fermented products (see Sandor Kraut's super excellent Republic of Fermentation series) but 4000+ years of continuous civilization demarcated by lots of inter-regional strife and a long, long, long system of class inequality removes the village as a producer of culture
posted by runt at 9:30 AM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I don't think I've ever even had any, not so's I'd remember. Incidentally, while looking up the Chinese name of that in an attempt to jog my memory, I came across the tidbit that apparently people call it "soy cheese". Good lord, was soy milk not enough?? Just let soy things be themselves, not everything has to be a vegetarian version of some Western whatsit?! [BUTTON: PRESSED]
....anyway. Carry on.
posted by inconstant at 9:54 AM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
....anyway. Carry on.
posted by inconstant at 9:54 AM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
This is your friendly neighborhood cheese-thread reminder that lactose intolerance has little bearing on many cheeses. Most hard cheeses have little lactose. And even if you are lactose intolerant (my condolences), most people can eat some lactose, just not much. In other words, there's a limit below which you won't feel unfortunate side effects. Sadly though, each individual has to work out just what that limit is for them. Good luck!
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 10:09 AM on March 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 10:09 AM on March 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
Not to repeat myself a gazillion times or anything, it's just in case some new MeFite sees this and doesn't know – I'm an Oregonian in France, lived in Nice for 15 years and Paris for 4 now, who's lost loved ones in the US to school gun violence and gendered violence (childhood friend beaten to within an inch of her life by her husband, her kids shot by him, and she died of the fire set by her husband, who of course killed himself. asshole is too kind a word.)
So when I read "The latter factor explains why France does so badly in terms of stability, as the latest figures come from 2016 (the Paris terror attack was in November 2015 and the attack in Nice was in July 2016)." Yeah sorry my very dark sense of humor has me laughing my head off over here.
You guys know we had a third attack a couple days ago near Carcassonne. That's it, France is going to the cheesemongers.
*having tomme Dent du Chat, Beaufort d'été, and cœur de chèvre this evening*
*and yeah I'm lactose intolerant but most cheese aged more than a few days doesn't have much if any left, no issues*
*eats more cheese*
posted by fraula at 10:11 AM on March 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
So when I read "The latter factor explains why France does so badly in terms of stability, as the latest figures come from 2016 (the Paris terror attack was in November 2015 and the attack in Nice was in July 2016)." Yeah sorry my very dark sense of humor has me laughing my head off over here.
You guys know we had a third attack a couple days ago near Carcassonne. That's it, France is going to the cheesemongers.
*having tomme Dent du Chat, Beaufort d'été, and cœur de chèvre this evening*
*and yeah I'm lactose intolerant but most cheese aged more than a few days doesn't have much if any left, no issues*
*eats more cheese*
posted by fraula at 10:11 AM on March 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
your friendly neighborhood cheese-thread reminder that lactose intolerance has little bearing on many cheeses. Most hard cheeses have little lactose
a little bit of lactose for you is nothing but for me it's hours of clenching in public settings and farting as silently as I can when the wind picks up outside. it's not diarrhea or unceasing bloating that won't go away no matter how much you toot but it's not like it's a small deal or something
have some compassion, man
posted by runt at 12:38 PM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
a little bit of lactose for you is nothing but for me it's hours of clenching in public settings and farting as silently as I can when the wind picks up outside. it's not diarrhea or unceasing bloating that won't go away no matter how much you toot but it's not like it's a small deal or something
have some compassion, man
posted by runt at 12:38 PM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Huh. All kidding aside, this is very interesting. Y'know, they think the cheeses come from us, from our skin, from handling milk. Some of them are ancient, some more modern, but they think they all originate from the human microbiome, so cheese could very well be affecting our cognition, much as they now think lead exposure lead (ha) to higher crime rates.
posted by sexyrobot at 3:03 PM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by sexyrobot at 3:03 PM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Lactose is not the real issue with cheese, casein is the issue. God help you if both casein and lactose are a problem! Even then, so called unimproved dairy breeds have a different form of lactose. Cream and whipped cream have next to no lactose or casein. Explaining to friends and family why a latte with whipped cream probably won’t hurt me but cheese might and a glass of milk probably will do some damage is time consuming as Hell. Some lactose intolerant people can’t drink goat milk or eat goat cheese, but sheep cheese is totally fine. Sheep cheese is awesome. I wish it was easier to get.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 3:40 PM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 3:40 PM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
OK, I have to share my main (pre-Brexit) EU cheese story I have as a Midwestern American.
I studied abroad in Sheffield during the Bush administration, and I briefly got involved with a group of environmental student campaigners. Somehow it came up that in Britain EVERYONE knows that eating cheese before bed is a surefire way to give oneself nightmares. I was convinced everyone was fucking with me as the extremely earnest American (because this was essentially the main thing I learned in my first month there) and I was like "y'all are full of shit, I know not to believe this stuff."
So one day we were flyering for god knows what on the high street, and I ended up talking to this totally random stranger and I was like, "hey, I am a clueless American, but I have to ask. Why does everyone keep cautioning me not to eat cheese before bed?" And he gave me a grave look and said "Because you'll get nightmares, has no one ever told you this???"
To this day I remain an extremely edgy pre-bedtime cheese eater.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:13 PM on March 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
I studied abroad in Sheffield during the Bush administration, and I briefly got involved with a group of environmental student campaigners. Somehow it came up that in Britain EVERYONE knows that eating cheese before bed is a surefire way to give oneself nightmares. I was convinced everyone was fucking with me as the extremely earnest American (because this was essentially the main thing I learned in my first month there) and I was like "y'all are full of shit, I know not to believe this stuff."
So one day we were flyering for god knows what on the high street, and I ended up talking to this totally random stranger and I was like, "hey, I am a clueless American, but I have to ask. Why does everyone keep cautioning me not to eat cheese before bed?" And he gave me a grave look and said "Because you'll get nightmares, has no one ever told you this???"
To this day I remain an extremely edgy pre-bedtime cheese eater.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:13 PM on March 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
MetaFilter: farting as silently as I can when the wind picks up outside
posted by sylvanshine at 7:40 PM on March 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by sylvanshine at 7:40 PM on March 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
NOW FOR SOME GOOD NEWS: Recent research shows no link between eating cheese and risk of heart attack or stroke.
posted by biffa at 2:10 AM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by biffa at 2:10 AM on March 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
Dammit, do I have to change my MeFi username again?
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:12 AM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:12 AM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
For what it's worth, it took me a while to realize your username was Cheeses Of Brazil and not Cheeses Off Brazil.
posted by Kattullus at 6:09 AM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 6:09 AM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
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I can see it now, the CIA starts recruiting cheese makers and cheese mongers in order to topple various governments. We should have all realized this, of course, with the announcement of the upcoming book: Tom Clancy's Deep Gouda.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:59 AM on March 28, 2018 [8 favorites]