Usually even Microsoft is not so bad as to endanger its users
December 11, 2021 11:19 AM Subscribe
Oh hey, no biggie, but if you have an Android phone and Microsoft Teams installed, you may not be able to dial 911.
I wonder why Apple doesn't want to let random developers just hook into random private APIs in their mobile operating systems. 🤔
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 11:25 AM on December 11, 2021 [27 favorites]
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 11:25 AM on December 11, 2021 [27 favorites]
I wouldn’t trust an android phone in an emergency, but I also imagine that countless people have been saved because a cellphone could call for help that would have died in previous decades/centuries.
posted by snofoam at 11:34 AM on December 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 11:34 AM on December 11, 2021 [4 favorites]
Hmm! I have an Android phone with Teams (for work) and it often ends up logged out. Useful information!
posted by tavella at 11:39 AM on December 11, 2021
posted by tavella at 11:39 AM on December 11, 2021
This is an OS problem, not a Microsoft problem.
Good thing it happened on a platform where OS updates are rolled out quickly and efficiently.
posted by grahamparks at 11:40 AM on December 11, 2021 [12 favorites]
Good thing it happened on a platform where OS updates are rolled out quickly and efficiently.
posted by grahamparks at 11:40 AM on December 11, 2021 [12 favorites]
I wasn't calling 911, but almost immediately after installing and using my Teams App last year for a new job, I started experiencing glitches with my phone. It caused me problems with friends and at work because suddenly I sounded like I was making lame excuses for missing conversations and deadlines. I sincerely hope they get this fixed. How terrifying for this person and their family.
posted by lextex at 11:41 AM on December 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by lextex at 11:41 AM on December 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
> I wonder why Apple doesn't want to let random developers just hook into random private APIs in their mobile operating systems. 🤔
Yeah, Apple is more than capable of interfering with access to 911 emergency calls without the help of third party vendors.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:47 AM on December 11, 2021 [12 favorites]
Yeah, Apple is more than capable of interfering with access to 911 emergency calls without the help of third party vendors.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:47 AM on December 11, 2021 [12 favorites]
Fixes are already rolling out for the Teams app. This bug honestly doesn't seem surprising; the Teams app is a steaming pile of trash, and calling 911 is a test that's unable to be automated.
posted by meowzilla at 12:15 PM on December 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by meowzilla at 12:15 PM on December 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
Though I'm on 12 not 10 so I should be ok.
It sounds like all versions 10 and up are impacted.
The FPP article states:
It sounds like all versions 10 and up are impacted.
The FPP article states:
"Out of an abundance of caution, in the meantime, we suggest users with Microsoft Teams installed on any Android device running Android 10 and above take the following steps:posted by cynical pinnacle at 12:22 PM on December 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
If you are unsure what Android version you are on, confirm you are running Android 10 or above by following the steps here. If you are not running Android 10 or above, you are not impacted by this issue."
Glad I saw this FPP, I had heard about the bug but didn't realize I was impacted. I have a work profile on my Android 11 phone that auto-installed Teams but I never bothered to set it up (I only use the work profile for occasional Outlook access), almost forgot Teams was even on there. Uninstalled it.
posted by photo guy at 12:42 PM on December 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by photo guy at 12:42 PM on December 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
This bug honestly doesn't seem surprising; the Teams app is a steaming pile of trash, and calling 911 is a test that's unable to be automated.
Teams sounds shoddily written, but it shouldn't be possible for a shoddily written app to denial-of-service the phone's emergency calling function.
Assuming the writeup is correct (it sounds like it's still a best-guess for now), it's triggered by a Teams bug, but that bug should never have come close to causing this problem- it's not the sort of bug you'd expect to cause this at all. Teams creates too many foobar entities, which overflows an integer somewhere deep in the guts of the emergency call handling code, which confused Android into thinking that Teams could handle emergency calls, which it can't (and never represented to Android that it could).
Even a trashfire app shouldn't able to accidentally take control of the emergency calling function on the phone. If Teams had intentionally represented to Android that it could handle emergency calls but couldn't, that would be extremely bad and obviously Microsoft's fault, but it sounds like not.
posted by BungaDunga at 1:19 PM on December 11, 2021 [16 favorites]
Teams sounds shoddily written, but it shouldn't be possible for a shoddily written app to denial-of-service the phone's emergency calling function.
Assuming the writeup is correct (it sounds like it's still a best-guess for now), it's triggered by a Teams bug, but that bug should never have come close to causing this problem- it's not the sort of bug you'd expect to cause this at all. Teams creates too many foobar entities, which overflows an integer somewhere deep in the guts of the emergency call handling code, which confused Android into thinking that Teams could handle emergency calls, which it can't (and never represented to Android that it could).
Even a trashfire app shouldn't able to accidentally take control of the emergency calling function on the phone. If Teams had intentionally represented to Android that it could handle emergency calls but couldn't, that would be extremely bad and obviously Microsoft's fault, but it sounds like not.
posted by BungaDunga at 1:19 PM on December 11, 2021 [16 favorites]
Teams is Sharepoint turned into a chat and calendaring app. There's zero reason I'd install Teams on a personal device ... and work can pay for a device they own for their purposes.
posted by k3ninho at 2:48 PM on December 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by k3ninho at 2:48 PM on December 11, 2021 [6 favorites]
My employer has switched everything to Teams AND because of "security concerns", we have to constantly MFA to stay logged in, so this could absolutely happen to one of my coworkers.
Ever since they took away our employer-provided cellphones, I have stubbornly refused to install Teams or Outlook on my personal phone. They made it clear that we no longer needed to have constant availability when they took away those phones. If they wanted me to always be available, they'd be paying for my phone still.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:09 PM on December 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
Ever since they took away our employer-provided cellphones, I have stubbornly refused to install Teams or Outlook on my personal phone. They made it clear that we no longer needed to have constant availability when they took away those phones. If they wanted me to always be available, they'd be paying for my phone still.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:09 PM on December 11, 2021 [11 favorites]
Teams is Sharepoint turned into a chat and calendaring app.
This is the most terrifying thing I've read in the last year.
posted by SPrintF at 4:07 PM on December 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
This is the most terrifying thing I've read in the last year.
posted by SPrintF at 4:07 PM on December 11, 2021 [8 favorites]
Oh, SPrintF, let me tell of the forthcoming GUID shortage...
posted by k3ninho at 4:09 PM on December 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by k3ninho at 4:09 PM on December 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
...so there's a nerd joke about the 128-bit identifiers called GUID's eventually being used up -- and Sharepoint (and Teams, Active Directory and Azure, all) are heavy users of GUID's.
posted by k3ninho at 4:11 PM on December 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by k3ninho at 4:11 PM on December 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
An URL without a GUID is like a fish without a bicycle.
(Disclosure: I work at Microsoft but not on Teams.)
posted by Slothrup at 6:06 PM on December 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
(Disclosure: I work at Microsoft but not on Teams.)
posted by Slothrup at 6:06 PM on December 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
This is Microsoft's way of nudging everyone to log into Teams....
posted by chavenet at 5:08 AM on December 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 5:08 AM on December 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
I have no idea who Mr. Rahman is but I was impressed by how well this article breaks down a pretty convoluted technical problem in a way even I as a layperson could easily understand not just what the issue was but when and why it was happening. This is well done.
posted by Wretch729 at 5:35 AM on December 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Wretch729 at 5:35 AM on December 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
the Teams app is a steaming pile of trash
It's actually worse on their windows client than on mobiles/tablets...
I blame Electron and JavaScript/TypeScript - but I am an old curmudgeon.
posted by rozcakj at 5:44 AM on December 13, 2021
It's actually worse on their windows client than on mobiles/tablets...
I blame Electron and JavaScript/TypeScript - but I am an old curmudgeon.
posted by rozcakj at 5:44 AM on December 13, 2021
We were heavy Skype for Business users at work -- it was great, we could share desktops, chat quickly and easily, our chat history showed up in an Outlook folder for easy searching, and it was very accurate to show who was available or away from their desks.
A few months ago we were forced to switch to Teams by O365, and the first week was a bunch of "I can't find so-and-so in Teams to send them a message", nobody responds to messages because Teams does such a bad job of notifications, the 'available' vs 'away from desk' is not accurate at all, and history is hit-or-miss as to whether we can ever find it again. I frequently end up with two chat windows on my screen containing the same data because...that's just what Teams does I guess?
I can't imagine why Microsoft made something new instead of just building on top of the already functioning Skype.
posted by AzraelBrown at 6:20 AM on December 13, 2021
A few months ago we were forced to switch to Teams by O365, and the first week was a bunch of "I can't find so-and-so in Teams to send them a message", nobody responds to messages because Teams does such a bad job of notifications, the 'available' vs 'away from desk' is not accurate at all, and history is hit-or-miss as to whether we can ever find it again. I frequently end up with two chat windows on my screen containing the same data because...that's just what Teams does I guess?
I can't imagine why Microsoft made something new instead of just building on top of the already functioning Skype.
posted by AzraelBrown at 6:20 AM on December 13, 2021
This is an OS problem, not a Microsoft problem.
If you read the article, it's pretty much Teams that fscking it up, though I'm sure Android shares some of the blame as well.
posted by MartinWisse at 9:42 AM on December 13, 2021
If you read the article, it's pretty much Teams that fscking it up, though I'm sure Android shares some of the blame as well.
posted by MartinWisse at 9:42 AM on December 13, 2021
Obviously, this bug is horrible, and shouldn't happen this way - it should fall back to _any available method_ or something like that - but the feature that allowed it to happen, despite seeming silly if you don't need it, is very much in the bucket of "Any feature that exists, is there because someone had a use for it" - the ability to swap out the phone dialer service for another one is a feature a bunch of people use to, for example, make VOIP dialing the default rather than phone dialing. One of the other uses is dialers such as TrueCaller, which implement things like robocall blocking and such by forming trust networks.
I actually used to have my phone configured this way when I travelled, so the default phone app would use skype rather than the expensive roaming, but ostensibly the reason it's a feature in teams is that corporate phones use that to stay within the network when dialing other company people rather than going out the cell phone network and back in. If you're doing corporate telephony, this is an unambiguously good thing(tm).
So should 911 be entirely exempt from that? Probably - assuming, of course, the phone has non-wifi service where it is, etc, etc, etc... again, "any means possible" seems the right thing for emergency service dialing, but... the actual implementation of that is trickier than one might imagine - part of the nature of this bug, is teams said "I've got this, I've dialed 911!!!", to which the OS said "okay, cool, that's taken care of!". It's entirely possible for dialer to fail in the same way as an aside - this has actually happened in the past with unofficial dialer apps, and even sometimes official ones - here is an older example , but there have been a bunch of times this has happened.
It's absolutely a fuck up that android could/should have handled better. But it's not nearly as simple as "this feature should not exist", because it's honestly a feature that a bunch of people rely on. One thing I would say, is that play store certification should sequester apps that require the phone call intent, and check that things like 911 actually work - this should be possible to do automated/sandboxed. Though because of the nuance of this bug (you have to be in a particular circumstance of needing to re-login to the network to trigger it, aiui) may well have passed such a check.
Apple doesn't let you replace the dialer, but then apple doesn't let you do a lot of things that users actually want to do, and ends up being not super popular in the corporate world for that reason.
posted by jaymzjulian at 12:46 PM on December 13, 2021
I actually used to have my phone configured this way when I travelled, so the default phone app would use skype rather than the expensive roaming, but ostensibly the reason it's a feature in teams is that corporate phones use that to stay within the network when dialing other company people rather than going out the cell phone network and back in. If you're doing corporate telephony, this is an unambiguously good thing(tm).
So should 911 be entirely exempt from that? Probably - assuming, of course, the phone has non-wifi service where it is, etc, etc, etc... again, "any means possible" seems the right thing for emergency service dialing, but... the actual implementation of that is trickier than one might imagine - part of the nature of this bug, is teams said "I've got this, I've dialed 911!!!", to which the OS said "okay, cool, that's taken care of!". It's entirely possible for dialer to fail in the same way as an aside - this has actually happened in the past with unofficial dialer apps, and even sometimes official ones - here is an older example , but there have been a bunch of times this has happened.
It's absolutely a fuck up that android could/should have handled better. But it's not nearly as simple as "this feature should not exist", because it's honestly a feature that a bunch of people rely on. One thing I would say, is that play store certification should sequester apps that require the phone call intent, and check that things like 911 actually work - this should be possible to do automated/sandboxed. Though because of the nuance of this bug (you have to be in a particular circumstance of needing to re-login to the network to trigger it, aiui) may well have passed such a check.
Apple doesn't let you replace the dialer, but then apple doesn't let you do a lot of things that users actually want to do, and ends up being not super popular in the corporate world for that reason.
posted by jaymzjulian at 12:46 PM on December 13, 2021
(That having been said, 100% everything BungaDunga said about how android should have handled this!)
posted by jaymzjulian at 12:48 PM on December 13, 2021
posted by jaymzjulian at 12:48 PM on December 13, 2021
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posted by bz at 11:21 AM on December 11, 2021 [11 favorites]