And also an insurance company, which is a non-magic criminal.
March 28, 2024 10:20 AM Subscribe
I was really hoping for something more elaborate than slight of hand, nobody got sawn in half or anything.
posted by mhoye at 11:21 AM on March 28 [3 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 11:21 AM on March 28 [3 favorites]
This is one of the oldest cons in the book. They do it for the opening scene of the classic heist/con movie The Sting, they even also use news clippings to feel like cash. I believe its where the expression "left holding the bag" comes from.
Not to blame anyone but I'm surprised someone would do a cash transaction for 15K and not check a photo id or anything.
posted by being_quiet at 11:31 AM on March 28 [3 favorites]
Not to blame anyone but I'm surprised someone would do a cash transaction for 15K and not check a photo id or anything.
posted by being_quiet at 11:31 AM on March 28 [3 favorites]
Is it fraud? Or was the transaction completed and so it's theft of the cash that we are dealing with here?
Since the insurance company wants to be pedantic we gotta sort it out
posted by keep_evolving at 11:42 AM on March 28
Since the insurance company wants to be pedantic we gotta sort it out
posted by keep_evolving at 11:42 AM on March 28
The suggestion that people should carry out Facebook Marketplace exchanges at police precincts is wild.
I'm not sure what police stations are like in Quebec, but I'm having a hard time imagining NYPD officers sitting by while people use their precincts as a venue for selling watches and handbags.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 12:03 PM on March 28 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure what police stations are like in Quebec, but I'm having a hard time imagining NYPD officers sitting by while people use their precincts as a venue for selling watches and handbags.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 12:03 PM on March 28 [3 favorites]
The police station in my home town has a designated spot in the parking lot, with good lighting, cameras recording, and just general proximity to a lot of police that is specifically designated for this kind of transaction. It isn't actively monitored by a live police officer but is meant to be a safer place for trading.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:07 PM on March 28 [6 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 12:07 PM on March 28 [6 favorites]
That sounds like a great idea. It should be spread around the everywhere and implemented anywhere possible.
posted by hippybear at 12:12 PM on March 28
posted by hippybear at 12:12 PM on March 28
The NYPD has an E-Commerce Exchange Zone in front of each of the 77 precincts in the city.
posted by Hatashran at 12:14 PM on March 28 [4 favorites]
posted by Hatashran at 12:14 PM on March 28 [4 favorites]
Would that be a good place to do drug deals?
Asking for a friend.
posted by MtDewd at 12:19 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]
Asking for a friend.
posted by MtDewd at 12:19 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]
I believe its where the expression "left holding the bag" comes from.
I've just had a look in a couple of slang dictionaries. One dates the phrase back to 1760, but gives no indication of its derivation. The other suggests it derives from "holding the nose bag", an expression used to describe a sucker who's been left holding the nose bag while someone steals his horse.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:19 PM on March 28 [5 favorites]
I've just had a look in a couple of slang dictionaries. One dates the phrase back to 1760, but gives no indication of its derivation. The other suggests it derives from "holding the nose bag", an expression used to describe a sucker who's been left holding the nose bag while someone steals his horse.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:19 PM on March 28 [5 favorites]
"He told me he wanted to buy my watch to treat his wife. I didn't suspect a thing,"
Whose wife wants a men's Rolex watch?
posted by Liquidwolf at 12:51 PM on March 28 [4 favorites]
Whose wife wants a men's Rolex watch?
posted by Liquidwolf at 12:51 PM on March 28 [4 favorites]
A criminal magician? Time to call Sister Simone.
posted by wakannai at 1:14 PM on March 28 [3 favorites]
posted by wakannai at 1:14 PM on March 28 [3 favorites]
> being_quiet: "This is one of the oldest cons in the book. They do it for the opening scene of the classic heist/con movie The Sting, they even also use news clippings to feel like cash.
The physical mechanics of this scheme are extremely similar to what is sometimes used in the classic pigeon drop but the setup is entirely different. One of the features of the classic pigeon drop is that the mark is essentially complicit in getting a share of something they know they don't really have a right to. It's a con of the "can't con an honest man" type because it relies on the mark's willingness to be greedy and sneaky to try to insulate the con man from the consequences of the mark's eventual realization that they've been conned. The version from The Sting is particularly aimed this way since (iirc) it relied on the mark trying to keep/steal all the money for himself.
This scheme, however, has no such insulation. It's just a straight-up fraud and/or theft (depending on your insurance orientation lol). They got the mechanics down but they forgot about why you do all that the other stuff in a con.
posted by mhum at 1:52 PM on March 28 [2 favorites]
The physical mechanics of this scheme are extremely similar to what is sometimes used in the classic pigeon drop but the setup is entirely different. One of the features of the classic pigeon drop is that the mark is essentially complicit in getting a share of something they know they don't really have a right to. It's a con of the "can't con an honest man" type because it relies on the mark's willingness to be greedy and sneaky to try to insulate the con man from the consequences of the mark's eventual realization that they've been conned. The version from The Sting is particularly aimed this way since (iirc) it relied on the mark trying to keep/steal all the money for himself.
This scheme, however, has no such insulation. It's just a straight-up fraud and/or theft (depending on your insurance orientation lol). They got the mechanics down but they forgot about why you do all that the other stuff in a con.
posted by mhum at 1:52 PM on March 28 [2 favorites]
evidenceofabsence, some precincts in Montreal have zones dedicated to this purpose.
Unsure that would have helped much in this case, but at least you can do exchanges without giving away your home address.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:04 PM on March 28
Unsure that would have helped much in this case, but at least you can do exchanges without giving away your home address.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:04 PM on March 28
I donated $25 to some outfit (claiming to -- who knows?) some outfit which showed pictures of people eating a Thanksgiving meal in what looked to be a warm room, I've had my share of grim lonesome holidays and figured what the hell, $25 wasn't going to hurt me at that time, 1991, maybe six months before God smiled upon me and got me here to Austin.
Thus began the yearly saga, upwards of 14,739 pleas in my flippin' mailbox autumn after autumn, replete with sad photos of people in worn shoes and needing haircuts. (How they traced me to Austin I do not know, and I think I don't even want to know.) I responded, told them that I sure was glad that I'd helped them that one year and boy isn't it great they are keeping on the good work, but I wasn't going to send them any more money, and hey, if you take me off your mailing list think of the money you'll save.
I think I responded twice, and as I recall each response triggered more and more jive in my mailbox, sadder and sadder pictures of people with even worse worn-out shoes and really bad haircuts, or maybe they were some of them bald, even the women, and pictures of children outdoors barefoot in the snow, starveling, wiping their noses without even mittens, for Pete's sake. Yet in all the years I lived in Houston I saw snow 3 times or 4, max.
I smelled a rat.
I just didn't respond -- this is years, mind -- yet the hurricanes of hogwash were a yearly occurance.
Do you think they sent but one missive per year?
No.
No, they did not.
Rather than just annoyance, one year I thought of it, how might I resolve it.
They sent these pleas in envelopes with pre-paid return envelopes in them. Without too much trouble I found some sheet metal, and I still have all of my construction tools, including my tin snips. I cut four or five pieces of sheet metal to size, put them in their return envelopes, sealed them, taped them with a bit of transparent shipping tape, and dropped them into the mailbox.
I don't think I ever heard from them again; I like to think their building burned down.
posted by dancestoblue at 2:09 PM on March 28 [6 favorites]
Thus began the yearly saga, upwards of 14,739 pleas in my flippin' mailbox autumn after autumn, replete with sad photos of people in worn shoes and needing haircuts. (How they traced me to Austin I do not know, and I think I don't even want to know.) I responded, told them that I sure was glad that I'd helped them that one year and boy isn't it great they are keeping on the good work, but I wasn't going to send them any more money, and hey, if you take me off your mailing list think of the money you'll save.
I think I responded twice, and as I recall each response triggered more and more jive in my mailbox, sadder and sadder pictures of people with even worse worn-out shoes and really bad haircuts, or maybe they were some of them bald, even the women, and pictures of children outdoors barefoot in the snow, starveling, wiping their noses without even mittens, for Pete's sake. Yet in all the years I lived in Houston I saw snow 3 times or 4, max.
I smelled a rat.
I just didn't respond -- this is years, mind -- yet the hurricanes of hogwash were a yearly occurance.
Do you think they sent but one missive per year?
No.
No, they did not.
Rather than just annoyance, one year I thought of it, how might I resolve it.
They sent these pleas in envelopes with pre-paid return envelopes in them. Without too much trouble I found some sheet metal, and I still have all of my construction tools, including my tin snips. I cut four or five pieces of sheet metal to size, put them in their return envelopes, sealed them, taped them with a bit of transparent shipping tape, and dropped them into the mailbox.
I don't think I ever heard from them again; I like to think their building burned down.
posted by dancestoblue at 2:09 PM on March 28 [6 favorites]
"He told me he wanted to buy my watch to treat his wife. I didn't suspect a thing,"
Whose wife wants a men's Rolex watch?
A wife who, that’s the watch she likes and it fits her?
posted by toodleydoodley at 2:24 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]
Whose wife wants a men's Rolex watch?
A wife who, that’s the watch she likes and it fits her?
posted by toodleydoodley at 2:24 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]
I was really, really hoping this would end with the mark smirking, and noting that "by the way I'm a bit of an amateur magician myself, and before handing it over I swapped the Rolex for the 'Rolex' bought from that guy outside Central Park in 1997 for $10"
posted by chavenet at 3:33 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]
posted by chavenet at 3:33 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]
I think that I would have said to the crook, "Leave my money on the counter."
posted by MonsieurPEB at 3:58 PM on March 28
posted by MonsieurPEB at 3:58 PM on March 28
We all think we would have said that, but in the actual situation? Maybe not.
posted by Paul Slade at 4:24 PM on March 28
posted by Paul Slade at 4:24 PM on March 28
I've been around the block a few times, and have seen enough of a sample size that I told my daughters, "If you find out that a guy you're interested in does stage magic, immediately walk away and/or ghost him." After I said this, my wife, who we thought was napping, sat up and said, "Oh, fuck yeah: don't give him a chance." We've seen so many of our woman friends think, oh this is a cute hobby, and the guy ALWAYS turns out to be a manipulative, narcissistic manchild who leaves them broken. You'd want to think it's just a cute hobby, but IME it attracts all kinds of Dark Triad men.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 5:33 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 5:33 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]
→
I can't see this working in Toronto, unless the officers got to keep (steal) the stuff they liked.
posted by scruss at 6:12 PM on March 28
some precincts in Montreal have zones dedicated to this purpose
I can't see this working in Toronto, unless the officers got to keep (steal) the stuff they liked.
posted by scruss at 6:12 PM on March 28
The Rolex Datejust 41 is popular among men and women. They do offer a smaller Lady’s Datejust that shrinks it down from 41mm to 28mm; but they don’t market the 41 as a men’s watch.
What doesn’t add up in this story is that $15,000 used seems very expensive for a used Datejust in a private sale. First of all there are so many fakes out there and you’d be nuts to purchase that from a private seller with no verification. Even the pros have trouble telling some of the fakes from a real one. Second this is one of Rolex’s entry level models. Unlike the much more coveted Submariner or Daytona where dealers will waitlist you for years unless you are a celebrity or have a longstanding relationship with them — you can usually walk in off the street and buy a Datejust. Dealers get an allocation of watches from Rolex and they don’t get to pick which models they are going to get. As part of their game to keep the status value and price high for those coveted models Rolex will send like 10 Datejusts for every Submariner. If you go in to buy a Submariner the dealer will often push you into the Datejust and offer you some kind of waitlist buyback deal. They know you are attached to the brand, and want that status. Finally the second hand watch market is in rough shape at the moment if you follow Watch YouTube or WatchTok you know the prices have come way down on the secondary market.
posted by interogative mood at 12:51 PM on March 29
What doesn’t add up in this story is that $15,000 used seems very expensive for a used Datejust in a private sale. First of all there are so many fakes out there and you’d be nuts to purchase that from a private seller with no verification. Even the pros have trouble telling some of the fakes from a real one. Second this is one of Rolex’s entry level models. Unlike the much more coveted Submariner or Daytona where dealers will waitlist you for years unless you are a celebrity or have a longstanding relationship with them — you can usually walk in off the street and buy a Datejust. Dealers get an allocation of watches from Rolex and they don’t get to pick which models they are going to get. As part of their game to keep the status value and price high for those coveted models Rolex will send like 10 Datejusts for every Submariner. If you go in to buy a Submariner the dealer will often push you into the Datejust and offer you some kind of waitlist buyback deal. They know you are attached to the brand, and want that status. Finally the second hand watch market is in rough shape at the moment if you follow Watch YouTube or WatchTok you know the prices have come way down on the secondary market.
posted by interogative mood at 12:51 PM on March 29
We've seen so many of our woman friends think, oh this is a cute hobby, and the guy ALWAYS turns out to be a manipulative, narcissistic manchild who leaves them broken.I’ve known a guy for thirty-five years who does magic as a hobby. Nicest guy in the world. He’s been married the whole time, apparently very happily—I also know his wife. I find myself thinking “how many can ‘so many’ be?” In any case, apparently not enough to draw your generalization reliably.
I think the poster that noted that the cash was what was stolen had a great point. However, the insurance company probably doesn’t insure against thefts of cash over some small limit. Unlike amateur magicians, they’re professionals in making your money vanish.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 3:43 PM on March 30
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posted by hippybear at 10:33 AM on March 28 [1 favorite]