2900 ships lost
July 28, 2013 10:15 PM Subscribe
Largest space battle in history claims 2,900 ships, untold virtual lives. After 5 hours of battle, CFC defeats the TEST alliance.
Here's a first-person report on the battle.
Here's a first-person report on the battle.
Every EVE story posted here makes me glad I've never tasted that particular version of crack.
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:32 PM on July 28, 2013 [23 favorites]
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:32 PM on July 28, 2013 [23 favorites]
I still have like 2 bil worth of equipment and ships in 6vdt from a war several years ago.
Here's some more coverage of the fight, it seems TEST got a titan as a consolation prize:
*BREAKING* LI3 FEDERATION TITAN DOWN IN 6VDT-H
TEST ALLIANCE PLEASE IGNORE RETREATS TO DELVE
MAD HABERDASHERS: FOUNTAIN FLIP FLOP
I feel like the biggest battle on Eve happens every month.
Yes, well I've been playing for 8 years and as long as I can remember it's been a constant battle between ccp and the players. Just as soon as ccp makes it possible for the alliances to bring 3000 pilots they will bring 4000. Then they complain about lag.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 10:34 PM on July 28, 2013
Here's some more coverage of the fight, it seems TEST got a titan as a consolation prize:
*BREAKING* LI3 FEDERATION TITAN DOWN IN 6VDT-H
TEST ALLIANCE PLEASE IGNORE RETREATS TO DELVE
MAD HABERDASHERS: FOUNTAIN FLIP FLOP
I feel like the biggest battle on Eve happens every month.
Yes, well I've been playing for 8 years and as long as I can remember it's been a constant battle between ccp and the players. Just as soon as ccp makes it possible for the alliances to bring 3000 pilots they will bring 4000. Then they complain about lag.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 10:34 PM on July 28, 2013
After 5 hours of battle
What happens if you have to go to the bathroom?
posted by double block and bleed at 10:34 PM on July 28, 2013
What happens if you have to go to the bathroom?
posted by double block and bleed at 10:34 PM on July 28, 2013
What happens if you have to go to the bathroom?
You don't want to know.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 10:37 PM on July 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
You don't want to know.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 10:37 PM on July 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
- So I was sitting in my pod today, and I realized, ever since I started playing EVE Online, every space battle has been bigger than the one before it. So that means that every day you see me, that's on the day of the biggest space battle in history.
- What about today? Is today the biggest space battle in history?
- Oh yeah.
- Wow, that's messed up.
posted by Phssthpok at 10:46 PM on July 28, 2013 [23 favorites]
- What about today? Is today the biggest space battle in history?
- Oh yeah.
- Wow, that's messed up.
posted by Phssthpok at 10:46 PM on July 28, 2013 [23 favorites]
Every EVE story posted here makes me glad I've never tasted that particular version of crack.
I feel exactly the same way. Every EVE related post, I want to know more. But I already need to spend more time outside.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:47 PM on July 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
I feel exactly the same way. Every EVE related post, I want to know more. But I already need to spend more time outside.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:47 PM on July 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
Sometimes I fantasize that Guillermo del Toro is researching EVE Online for his next film project. Just sayin'...there's some potential in there
posted by Doleful Creature at 10:53 PM on July 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by Doleful Creature at 10:53 PM on July 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
I don't know how you can make a film about people sitting in front of computers into an action roller coaster. It'd at least have to be about hackers or something.
posted by TwelveTwo at 10:55 PM on July 28, 2013
posted by TwelveTwo at 10:55 PM on July 28, 2013
EVE seems like the kind of game I dreamed about playing as a kid, when I rushed home from school to login to the local BBS to check on my planets' production in Galactic Empires.
Twice I've tried to get into EVE, both times I gave up. I'm assuming getting addicted to heroin is easier and involves fewer spreadsheets.
posted by justkevin at 10:58 PM on July 28, 2013 [10 favorites]
Twice I've tried to get into EVE, both times I gave up. I'm assuming getting addicted to heroin is easier and involves fewer spreadsheets.
posted by justkevin at 10:58 PM on July 28, 2013 [10 favorites]
You're aware that's a non-negligible part of the game, right?
posted by 7segment at 10:59 PM on July 28, 2013
posted by 7segment at 10:59 PM on July 28, 2013
I like this junkyard-like agglomeration of large ships. I haven't played EVE in a long time. Questions for those in the know:
Q1 - For scale, is that lone ship off to the side of the knot an Amarr battleship? If it's something bigger than a battleship that knot of ships is very large indeed.
Q2 - Why a knot of ships? Are they trying to dock with what looks like a station at the center of the knot? Are they bumping each other to prevent each other from aligning for warp? Is this poor navigation due to time dilatation?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:06 PM on July 28, 2013
Q1 - For scale, is that lone ship off to the side of the knot an Amarr battleship? If it's something bigger than a battleship that knot of ships is very large indeed.
Q2 - Why a knot of ships? Are they trying to dock with what looks like a station at the center of the knot? Are they bumping each other to prevent each other from aligning for warp? Is this poor navigation due to time dilatation?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:06 PM on July 28, 2013
You're aware that's a non-negligible part of the game, right?
The heroin?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:06 PM on July 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
The heroin?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:06 PM on July 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
Here's an account of the strategy from one of the fleet commanders. Likely to be semi-unreadable if you don't know what a Megathron is.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:19 PM on July 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:19 PM on July 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
For scale, is that lone ship off to the side of the knot an Amarr battleship?
Amarr dreadnaught. All of the big ships in that shot are dreads.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 11:45 PM on July 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Amarr dreadnaught. All of the big ships in that shot are dreads.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 11:45 PM on July 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
It looks so neat!
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:48 PM on July 28, 2013
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:48 PM on July 28, 2013
Ah screw it. I just signed up for a trial account.
posted by thecjm at 12:19 AM on July 29, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by thecjm at 12:19 AM on July 29, 2013 [7 favorites]
Can someone explain the seemingly scheduled aspect of this?
posted by maxwelton at 1:10 AM on July 29, 2013
posted by maxwelton at 1:10 AM on July 29, 2013
I like the fact that "CFC" stands for "ClusterFuck Coalition". But I guess you'd expect a name like that from a group that had its beginnings in the Something Awful Forum.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 2:02 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 2:02 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
Can someone explain the seemingly scheduled aspect of this?
To stop alliance territory from getting rolled while they're sleeping, Eve has a mechanic where player owned structures are invincible when they are initially attacked. The defending alliance can basically choose when that invincibility timer runs out, and whether they plan to defend it when it does. So the defending alliance knows well in advance that there will be a fight, and can inform ccp ahead of time.
posted by empath at 2:58 AM on July 29, 2013
To stop alliance territory from getting rolled while they're sleeping, Eve has a mechanic where player owned structures are invincible when they are initially attacked. The defending alliance can basically choose when that invincibility timer runs out, and whether they plan to defend it when it does. So the defending alliance knows well in advance that there will be a fight, and can inform ccp ahead of time.
posted by empath at 2:58 AM on July 29, 2013
Can someone explain the seemingly scheduled aspect of this?
Fighting for territory in EVE is heavily biased toward the defender. In order to win a system, an attacker must first deploy blockade items to notify the defenders that they are coming. After the 3 hour notification period, the attacker must come back to the system 3 times to fight the defender. There is a 1-2 day forced cool-down wait between each fight and the defender gets to chose the time of day for the last two battles.
This game mechanic means the attacker must overpower the defender in the the defender's strongest timezone, three consecutive times, with several days warning before the final fight. If the defender wins any of these fights, then the whole process is reset.
In practice, this very one-sided capture mechanic gives a certain stability to the EVE territory map. Large invasions come with plenty of warning, giving the defenders ample time to rally the troops, coordinate with allies, and perhaps engage the aggressor in diplomatic discussions.
When an EVE alliance begins losing handfuls of systems a day, as we have seen for the last week in TEST Alliance, it means their organization has already collapsed. TEST has over 35,000 members. For them to lose these large, well-planned, carefully scheduled battles means their troops are already demoralized, their leaders have already quit, and their allies have already given up.
Yesterday's massive battle was not the turning point of the war. It was TEST's last stand. It was the final gasp of a broken organization throwing their ships away because they felt they ought to, not because they had any chance of winning.
posted by ryanrs at 3:20 AM on July 29, 2013 [24 favorites]
Fighting for territory in EVE is heavily biased toward the defender. In order to win a system, an attacker must first deploy blockade items to notify the defenders that they are coming. After the 3 hour notification period, the attacker must come back to the system 3 times to fight the defender. There is a 1-2 day forced cool-down wait between each fight and the defender gets to chose the time of day for the last two battles.
This game mechanic means the attacker must overpower the defender in the the defender's strongest timezone, three consecutive times, with several days warning before the final fight. If the defender wins any of these fights, then the whole process is reset.
In practice, this very one-sided capture mechanic gives a certain stability to the EVE territory map. Large invasions come with plenty of warning, giving the defenders ample time to rally the troops, coordinate with allies, and perhaps engage the aggressor in diplomatic discussions.
When an EVE alliance begins losing handfuls of systems a day, as we have seen for the last week in TEST Alliance, it means their organization has already collapsed. TEST has over 35,000 members. For them to lose these large, well-planned, carefully scheduled battles means their troops are already demoralized, their leaders have already quit, and their allies have already given up.
Yesterday's massive battle was not the turning point of the war. It was TEST's last stand. It was the final gasp of a broken organization throwing their ships away because they felt they ought to, not because they had any chance of winning.
posted by ryanrs at 3:20 AM on July 29, 2013 [24 favorites]
If you want a peek at TEST's internal dysfunction, here is an album of screen captures of their leadership forums.
(These are tall jpegs of super-small text, so you really have to be a connoisseur of drama and infighting if you are going to bother reading them. But if you've gotten used to the terrible, soul-crushing grind that is regional warfare in EVE, you are probably acclimated to this kind of punishment.)
posted by ryanrs at 3:42 AM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
(These are tall jpegs of super-small text, so you really have to be a connoisseur of drama and infighting if you are going to bother reading them. But if you've gotten used to the terrible, soul-crushing grind that is regional warfare in EVE, you are probably acclimated to this kind of punishment.)
posted by ryanrs at 3:42 AM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
To stop alliance territory from getting rolled while they're sleeping...
That seems really bizarre. Shouldn't an alliance leave someone on guard duty or something?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:46 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
That seems really bizarre. Shouldn't an alliance leave someone on guard duty or something?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:46 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
If the attacker can secretly amass an invasion force over several days, then the defender's on-call guards will not have a chance. EVE's territory capture mechanics let similarly-sized organizations fight somewhat balanced fights. The huge bias towards the defenders may be strategically imbalanced, but it makes the actual battles more even.
posted by ryanrs at 3:57 AM on July 29, 2013
posted by ryanrs at 3:57 AM on July 29, 2013
Test lost as soon as N3 and Pandemic Legion stopped their deployment. I can't see how they can keep hold of Delve if CFC push on.
CFC have no equal at the moment. They're only true super power in the game.
posted by gwildar at 3:59 AM on July 29, 2013
CFC have no equal at the moment. They're only true super power in the game.
posted by gwildar at 3:59 AM on July 29, 2013
I'm not sure the CFC is in a good position to push the fight into Delve. There were a lot of uncontested losses in the North that were ignored because all our forces were deployed to Fountain.
Also, while there is a gate connecting Fountain to Delve, they aren't actually that close to one another in terms of capital ship ranges. It's not quite next door. Many people are in favor of leaving TEST in Delve so we can farm their pilots in small gang pvp.
posted by ryanrs at 4:09 AM on July 29, 2013
Also, while there is a gate connecting Fountain to Delve, they aren't actually that close to one another in terms of capital ship ranges. It's not quite next door. Many people are in favor of leaving TEST in Delve so we can farm their pilots in small gang pvp.
posted by ryanrs at 4:09 AM on July 29, 2013
One of the more likely scenario is that TEST's allies, the N3 coalition, turns on them, evicts them from Delve, and then tries to rent the region back to them for monthly isk payments. That would be hilarious and not entirely out-of-character for NCdot.
posted by ryanrs at 4:16 AM on July 29, 2013
posted by ryanrs at 4:16 AM on July 29, 2013
-- Land Warfare Analogy and Political Update for the Fountain / Delve / Querious Regions --
Delve is bordered by Fountain and Querious (plus a couple less relevant regions). Fountain is to the north of Delve, and Querious is to the south.
Fountain is controlled by the CFC, which recently crushed TEST Alliance and drove them into Delve. The border between Fountain and Delve is a large river spanned by a single narrow bridge. Cars can use the bridge, but not large trucks or tanks. If the CFC wants to pursue TEST into Delve, they must establish a base of operations on TEST's side of the bridge before attacking their heavily fortified infrastructure.
Querious, to the south, has many more connections to Delve. Forces stationed in Querious can easily attack points in Delve. Querious is held by NCdot, an ally to TEST in the Fountain war. NCdot joined the war because they wanted to fight against the CFC, not because they were longterm friends with TEST. In fact, NCdot sees themselves as a "serious business, elite PVP" alliance, which is very much at odds with TEST's culture of newbies and fun times.
TEST Alliance is currently in shambles, their troops demoralized and their leadership AFK. They are also broke. They have retreated to Delve to regroup and hopefully sort out their shit.
Delve happens to be a very valuable region, rich in resources. Many people besides TEST would like to live there.
Your move, everyone-in-EVE-that's-not-TEST.
posted by ryanrs at 4:37 AM on July 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
Delve is bordered by Fountain and Querious (plus a couple less relevant regions). Fountain is to the north of Delve, and Querious is to the south.
Fountain is controlled by the CFC, which recently crushed TEST Alliance and drove them into Delve. The border between Fountain and Delve is a large river spanned by a single narrow bridge. Cars can use the bridge, but not large trucks or tanks. If the CFC wants to pursue TEST into Delve, they must establish a base of operations on TEST's side of the bridge before attacking their heavily fortified infrastructure.
Querious, to the south, has many more connections to Delve. Forces stationed in Querious can easily attack points in Delve. Querious is held by NCdot, an ally to TEST in the Fountain war. NCdot joined the war because they wanted to fight against the CFC, not because they were longterm friends with TEST. In fact, NCdot sees themselves as a "serious business, elite PVP" alliance, which is very much at odds with TEST's culture of newbies and fun times.
TEST Alliance is currently in shambles, their troops demoralized and their leadership AFK. They are also broke. They have retreated to Delve to regroup and hopefully sort out their shit.
Delve happens to be a very valuable region, rich in resources. Many people besides TEST would like to live there.
Your move, everyone-in-EVE-that's-not-TEST.
posted by ryanrs at 4:37 AM on July 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
I'm assuming there's no place in EVE for someone who just wants to peacefully explore, interact and trade with others, right? The game is geared toward encouraging these sorts of regular showdowns, correct?
posted by Thorzdad at 4:39 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 4:39 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Coalition-scale territorial warfare takes place on the outer fringes of the EVE Universe, in the 34 out of 64 regions not owned by NPC factions. But 90+% of EVE lives in Empire—the other 30 regions not under player sovereignty. Stuff happening in Empire rarely makes the news though.
posted by ryanrs at 4:47 AM on July 29, 2013
posted by ryanrs at 4:47 AM on July 29, 2013
Fight for truth and justice on the front lines, or at home!
People of MetaFilter, your alliance needs you, whether you are ...
.. a pilot ("I'm doing my part!"),
.. trader ("I'm doing my part!"),
.. farmer ("I'm growing my part!"),
.. student ("I'm doing my part!"),
.. or stay-at-moon parent ("I'm doing my part!"; Little Bobby, with space fighter model: "Me too! pew! pew!").
All of your actions forward our shared cause of security and victory!
And remember! Service guarantees citizenship!
[musical flourish] Would you like to know more?
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:49 AM on July 29, 2013 [25 favorites]
People of MetaFilter, your alliance needs you, whether you are ...
.. a pilot ("I'm doing my part!"),
.. trader ("I'm doing my part!"),
.. farmer ("I'm growing my part!"),
.. student ("I'm doing my part!"),
.. or stay-at-moon parent ("I'm doing my part!"; Little Bobby, with space fighter model: "Me too! pew! pew!").
All of your actions forward our shared cause of security and victory!
And remember! Service guarantees citizenship!
[musical flourish] Would you like to know more?
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:49 AM on July 29, 2013 [25 favorites]
[musical flourish] Would you like to know more?
Plate of Beans Incorporated, a place for Mefites in EVE.
posted by ryanrs at 4:52 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Plate of Beans Incorporated, a place for Mefites in EVE.
posted by ryanrs at 4:52 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Live Fountain Sovereignty Map
Factions:
CONDI - Goonswarm Federation / The CFC
TEST - TEST Alliance Please Ignore
Serpentis - NPC constellation, not relevant
posted by ryanrs at 4:55 AM on July 29, 2013
Factions:
CONDI - Goonswarm Federation / The CFC
TEST - TEST Alliance Please Ignore
Serpentis - NPC constellation, not relevant
posted by ryanrs at 4:55 AM on July 29, 2013
CFC have no equal at the moment. They're only true super power in the game.
It's more complicated than that. The CFC controls the northern part of the map, with sovereignty 10 out of 34 nullsec regions. They have very little influence outside their home territory.
On the other hand, both NCdot and PL have very large supercapital fleets and a willingness to travel, so their power projection is much stronger than the CFC's. They are way more likely to stick their dicks in someone else's war (as happened in Fountain).
posted by ryanrs at 5:08 AM on July 29, 2013
It's more complicated than that. The CFC controls the northern part of the map, with sovereignty 10 out of 34 nullsec regions. They have very little influence outside their home territory.
On the other hand, both NCdot and PL have very large supercapital fleets and a willingness to travel, so their power projection is much stronger than the CFC's. They are way more likely to stick their dicks in someone else's war (as happened in Fountain).
posted by ryanrs at 5:08 AM on July 29, 2013
BBC: Eve players stage giant online space battle
Hey, we're on the news. Hi, mom!
posted by ryanrs at 5:15 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hey, we're on the news. Hi, mom!
posted by ryanrs at 5:15 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have never played an online game, and have zero interest in fighting, but reality fascinates me. I LOVE what Eve are doing, just cranking it up and up to see what happens, with everybody in the same universe, AS IT SHOULD BE. I love to see how real world dynamics evolve.
I trust that the Eve folks are always tweaking the underlying code to make it more and more realistic? Do we have the equivalent of different political structures that differentiate empires over the long term? Do we have the equivalent of long term weather changes that cause mass migrations? Please tell me this isn't JUST about fighting?
posted by EnterTheStory at 5:40 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I trust that the Eve folks are always tweaking the underlying code to make it more and more realistic? Do we have the equivalent of different political structures that differentiate empires over the long term? Do we have the equivalent of long term weather changes that cause mass migrations? Please tell me this isn't JUST about fighting?
posted by EnterTheStory at 5:40 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I trust that the Eve folks are always tweaking the underlying code to make it more and more realistic? Do we have the equivalent of different political structures that differentiate empires over the long term? Do we have the equivalent of long term weather changes that cause mass migrations? Please tell me this isn't JUST about fighting?
This war was a direct result of the changes to T2 ship production.
Before the Odyssey release in June, CFC had a defacto monopoly on a key mineral used in T2 production. CCP changed the formula in Odyssey so that CFC's region no longer gave them the control they had.
To retain their hold on T2 production they needed to gain control of one of the regions TEST owned – so they invaded. TEST fell apart, CFC won.
posted by gwildar at 5:53 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
This war was a direct result of the changes to T2 ship production.
Before the Odyssey release in June, CFC had a defacto monopoly on a key mineral used in T2 production. CCP changed the formula in Odyssey so that CFC's region no longer gave them the control they had.
To retain their hold on T2 production they needed to gain control of one of the regions TEST owned – so they invaded. TEST fell apart, CFC won.
posted by gwildar at 5:53 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure what you mean by "more realistic". It's a spaceship mmo; none of it is realistic.
CCP, the game developer, regularly updates the code to add new game mechanics and tactics, and rebalance existing ships. They are currently working on a year+ long series of patches to improve under-utilized ship classes to make them more competitive in combat. They also just released a change to moon minerals that altered the resource wealth of many regions in the game. That resource change is what sparked this latest war.
CCP is also working to improve the core server performance. A year or two ago they released a feature called "time dilation" that slows the simulation rate under heavy load. So in massive space battles, time slows down to 1/10th speed. So your ship travels slower and your guns shoot less frequently. But it gives the server 10x as much time to process the events. It's way better than just randomly dropping event and crashing (which is what used to happen).
All politics and organization, the so-called meta-game, occur outside the EVE game client, mostly in jabber chats and non-public web forums. CCP doesn't have much direct effect on this, although the mineral and mechanics changes have a large indirect effect.
posted by ryanrs at 5:55 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
CCP, the game developer, regularly updates the code to add new game mechanics and tactics, and rebalance existing ships. They are currently working on a year+ long series of patches to improve under-utilized ship classes to make them more competitive in combat. They also just released a change to moon minerals that altered the resource wealth of many regions in the game. That resource change is what sparked this latest war.
CCP is also working to improve the core server performance. A year or two ago they released a feature called "time dilation" that slows the simulation rate under heavy load. So in massive space battles, time slows down to 1/10th speed. So your ship travels slower and your guns shoot less frequently. But it gives the server 10x as much time to process the events. It's way better than just randomly dropping event and crashing (which is what used to happen).
All politics and organization, the so-called meta-game, occur outside the EVE game client, mostly in jabber chats and non-public web forums. CCP doesn't have much direct effect on this, although the mineral and mechanics changes have a large indirect effect.
posted by ryanrs at 5:55 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
There's some pretty stunning economic modeling going on in the EVE universe. I remember at least a few dissertations being written about it shortly after launch.
Like all wars, logistics is usually the overriding deciding factor. A few hours of battle could be preceded by weeks to months of mining, researching, and manufacturing.
posted by hobo gitano de queretaro at 6:05 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Like all wars, logistics is usually the overriding deciding factor. A few hours of battle could be preceded by weeks to months of mining, researching, and manufacturing.
posted by hobo gitano de queretaro at 6:05 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's a spaceship mmo; none of it is realistic.The irony here is that no matter where you go, there are people involved with other people. Did you not watch Wall-E?!?
posted by Blue_Villain at 6:06 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
To retain their hold on T2 production they needed to gain control of one of the regions TEST owned – so they invaded.
That extra money will be nice, but it will never be anything like the fountains of free isk we got from the technetium monopoly years.
Currently the best way to monetize a region is to rent it out to PVE farmers, slumlord style. You cram as many renters as possible into your systems and they grind NPC missions 24/7.
The CFC has an aversion to rental systems, but it might become necessary if we wish to maintain our current standard of living.
posted by ryanrs at 6:07 AM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
That extra money will be nice, but it will never be anything like the fountains of free isk we got from the technetium monopoly years.
Currently the best way to monetize a region is to rent it out to PVE farmers, slumlord style. You cram as many renters as possible into your systems and they grind NPC missions 24/7.
The CFC has an aversion to rental systems, but it might become necessary if we wish to maintain our current standard of living.
posted by ryanrs at 6:07 AM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Statistics
Length of war: forty-eight years, one month. Total casualties, including machines (reckoned on logarithmic sentience scale), medjel and non-combatants: 851.4 billion (±.3 %). Losses: ships (all classes above interplanetary) — 91,215,660 (± 200); Orbitals — 14,334; planets and major moons — 53; Rings — 1; Spheres — 3; stars (undergoing significant induced mass-loss or sequence-position alteration) — 6.
posted by drinkcoffee at 6:09 AM on July 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Length of war: forty-eight years, one month. Total casualties, including machines (reckoned on logarithmic sentience scale), medjel and non-combatants: 851.4 billion (±.3 %). Losses: ships (all classes above interplanetary) — 91,215,660 (± 200); Orbitals — 14,334; planets and major moons — 53; Rings — 1; Spheres — 3; stars (undergoing significant induced mass-loss or sequence-position alteration) — 6.
posted by drinkcoffee at 6:09 AM on July 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Like all wars, logistics is usually the overriding deciding factor.
In nullsec sovereignty warfare, it mostly comes down to burning out the opposing players. You make them alarm-clock 4AM spaceship fights every day for a month, until they quit logging on. This is what happened to TEST. They are a US-heavy alliance, but all fights were during Australian evenings (except this last big fight). The result was their few Australian players were overwhelmed, their US players were frustrated that they were unable to help, and their unemployed US players eventually got tired of waking up at 2AM every day.
The weird thing is that TEST were the defenders, so they were the ones that decided to schedule all the battles for Australian time. I'm not sure why they did that, but it broke their organization.
posted by ryanrs at 6:16 AM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
In nullsec sovereignty warfare, it mostly comes down to burning out the opposing players. You make them alarm-clock 4AM spaceship fights every day for a month, until they quit logging on. This is what happened to TEST. They are a US-heavy alliance, but all fights were during Australian evenings (except this last big fight). The result was their few Australian players were overwhelmed, their US players were frustrated that they were unable to help, and their unemployed US players eventually got tired of waking up at 2AM every day.
The weird thing is that TEST were the defenders, so they were the ones that decided to schedule all the battles for Australian time. I'm not sure why they did that, but it broke their organization.
posted by ryanrs at 6:16 AM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
A peek into TEST's organizational rot. Beffah, their military director, resigned last week because she was shit on for being AFK. A lot of TEST's top leaders and fleet commanders have disappeared during the last month under similar circumstances.
posted by ryanrs at 6:47 AM on July 29, 2013
posted by ryanrs at 6:47 AM on July 29, 2013
So TEST lost because Reddit users posses slightly more real (AFK) lives than Somethingawful users?
posted by jeffburdges at 7:02 AM on July 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 7:02 AM on July 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
The CFC has gotten very good at carefully pacing their invasions and avoiding player burnout. TEST spent the first two months of this war telling us that we "weren't winning fast enough". Then, once TEST stated burning out, we made a big push and rolled through their entire region.
Remember the 3-fight capture mechanic mentioned upthread? That was happening in something like 50 systems in parallel. The battle of 6VDT-H was not the only battle TEST had to defend that day. There were another 30+ battles they needed to fight on the same day. A 50-man CFC supercapital fleet won all of those fights completely unopposed.
posted by ryanrs at 7:28 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Remember the 3-fight capture mechanic mentioned upthread? That was happening in something like 50 systems in parallel. The battle of 6VDT-H was not the only battle TEST had to defend that day. There were another 30+ battles they needed to fight on the same day. A 50-man CFC supercapital fleet won all of those fights completely unopposed.
posted by ryanrs at 7:28 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Lest we forget, the previous mother of all battles, the Battle of Asakai, happened in late January and had TEST defeating CFC. Previously.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:19 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 9:19 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Space battles are a fact of life in Eve Online
I am imagining that BBC caption being read aloud in the driest of RP accents. It is glorious.
posted by elizardbits at 9:22 AM on July 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
I am imagining that BBC caption being read aloud in the driest of RP accents. It is glorious.
posted by elizardbits at 9:22 AM on July 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
It's a spaceship mmo; none of it is realistic.
It's real humans playing, though, and that's the point - how humans express themselves in a virtual universe, how it's the same as IRL, how it's different. Not whether the ISS Empress Angelsmooch has 24 or 26 Kersplatotron III cannons: the real stuff.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:47 AM on July 29, 2013
It's real humans playing, though, and that's the point - how humans express themselves in a virtual universe, how it's the same as IRL, how it's different. Not whether the ISS Empress Angelsmooch has 24 or 26 Kersplatotron III cannons: the real stuff.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:47 AM on July 29, 2013
I've found the comments section of the Mad Haberdashers story posted upthread to be simply fascinating- grizzled players discussing how the game doesn't model power projection realistically, debating what real world analogous tactics TEST should adopt to disrupt the CFC war machine, spitting out conspiracy theories about CCP and goon collaboration to push for bigger and bigger coalitions so the game would generate massive 4000+ player battles such as this one to get media attention...
I don't understand most of it, but it's interesting to see how people from the other side of the game talk shop. Makes me wonder if there will be more spectacles in the future for non-players to marvel at, and if the so-called "goon economic hegemony" will eventually crack against new challengers.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:51 AM on July 29, 2013
I don't understand most of it, but it's interesting to see how people from the other side of the game talk shop. Makes me wonder if there will be more spectacles in the future for non-players to marvel at, and if the so-called "goon economic hegemony" will eventually crack against new challengers.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:51 AM on July 29, 2013
double block and bleed: "What happens if you have to go to the bathroom?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsYJfUvszq4
posted by Hairy Lobster at 9:58 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsYJfUvszq4
posted by Hairy Lobster at 9:58 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
The day before the fight Goons destroyed every TEST force field in 6VDT and put up their own on all 26 available moons. So pilots on the CFC side could warp to to any moon in system and be safe.
The force field spamming was to deny TEST's allies the use of their supercapitals, which are very risky to deploy when you have no friendly force fields in system. Convenient bathroom breaks for the CFC were just a bonus.
I understand TEST was seriously annoyed when they discovered we had done this (another bonus).
posted by ryanrs at 10:09 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
The force field spamming was to deny TEST's allies the use of their supercapitals, which are very risky to deploy when you have no friendly force fields in system. Convenient bathroom breaks for the CFC were just a bonus.
I understand TEST was seriously annoyed when they discovered we had done this (another bonus).
posted by ryanrs at 10:09 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I haven't played EVE in a few years, but everytime I see news of a battle or a coup or something I devour it and it really makes me miss it. It's such a beautiful game. If only there were more hours in the day.
posted by polywomp at 10:22 AM on July 29, 2013
posted by polywomp at 10:22 AM on July 29, 2013
If only there were more hours in the day.
Would I be wrong assuming this is not the type of game I can really get anything out of in an hour or two every other day?
posted by Hoopo at 11:47 AM on July 29, 2013
Would I be wrong assuming this is not the type of game I can really get anything out of in an hour or two every other day?
posted by Hoopo at 11:47 AM on July 29, 2013
Would I be wrong assuming this is not the type of game I can really get anything out of in an hour or two every other day?
Yes and no. You can experience about 80% of the content in EVE (industry, exploration, missions, trading, low-sec solo PVP) playing sporadically in short unscheduled sessions.
The thing is that a lot of the really fun stuff lies in that other 20%.
posted by 256 at 11:56 AM on July 29, 2013
Yes and no. You can experience about 80% of the content in EVE (industry, exploration, missions, trading, low-sec solo PVP) playing sporadically in short unscheduled sessions.
The thing is that a lot of the really fun stuff lies in that other 20%.
posted by 256 at 11:56 AM on July 29, 2013
A dirty little secret is that some of the most powerful players in the game never actually sign on to play it.
posted by empath at 12:01 PM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by empath at 12:01 PM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
Because they are dark wizards?
posted by elizardbits at 12:02 PM on July 29, 2013
posted by elizardbits at 12:02 PM on July 29, 2013
Would I be wrong assuming this is not the type of game I can really get anything out of in an hour or two every other day?
Yes. It all depends on your play style and what you want to do in the eve universe.
Because they are dark wizards?
Because of the metagame.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 12:07 PM on July 29, 2013
Yes. It all depends on your play style and what you want to do in the eve universe.
Because they are dark wizards?
Because of the metagame.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 12:07 PM on July 29, 2013
"Largest space battle in history"
Pssh. Just imagine if these people dedicated their energies to actually getting into space. *goes back to playing KSP, tongue firmly in cheek*
posted by Eideteker at 2:40 PM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Pssh. Just imagine if these people dedicated their energies to actually getting into space. *goes back to playing KSP, tongue firmly in cheek*
posted by Eideteker at 2:40 PM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
ryanrs: "The CFC has gotten very good at carefully pacing their invasions and avoiding player burnout. TEST spent the first two months of this war telling us that we "weren't winning fast enough". Then, once TEST stated burning out, we made a big push and rolled through their entire region."
WAR FATIGUE!
posted by stratastar at 2:58 PM on July 29, 2013
WAR FATIGUE!
posted by stratastar at 2:58 PM on July 29, 2013
The EVE battle logs: Going To War With Goonwaffe
Phil Hartup becomes the first embedded reporter in the largest virtual war the world has ever seen.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:32 PM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Phil Hartup becomes the first embedded reporter in the largest virtual war the world has ever seen.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:32 PM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
It all depends on your play style and what you want to do in the eve universe.
I'm probably joining up then. Watch out, EVEOnline here comes Hoopo
posted by Hoopo at 4:51 PM on July 29, 2013
I'm probably joining up then. Watch out, EVEOnline here comes Hoopo
posted by Hoopo at 4:51 PM on July 29, 2013
Thorzdad:
There's also an interesting interdependence between the players who mine and trade and those who fight. (Of course, many do both.) Aside from a few specific types like blueprints and skillbooks, almost all of the items in EVE have to be manufactured from raw materials; the raw materials must be mined from asteroids and ice fields. The mining and manufacturing take player time. Every ship, every laser turret, every missile and every bullet in EVE is the output of player activity. So the fighters depend on the industrial players to provide all their gear; meanwhile the industrial players depend on PvPers to provide their market by continually buying and destroying stuff.
posted by mbrubeck at 5:08 PM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
"I'm assuming there's no place in EVE for someone who just wants to peacefully explore, interact and trade with others, right? The game is geared toward encouraging these sorts of regular showdowns, correct?"These big player-vs.-player battles take place in "null-sec" (or sometimes low-sec) space. For players who are more interested in trade and exploration there is also high-security space where it is almost impossible to attack another player without getting killed by the NPC law enforcement system.
There's also an interesting interdependence between the players who mine and trade and those who fight. (Of course, many do both.) Aside from a few specific types like blueprints and skillbooks, almost all of the items in EVE have to be manufactured from raw materials; the raw materials must be mined from asteroids and ice fields. The mining and manufacturing take player time. Every ship, every laser turret, every missile and every bullet in EVE is the output of player activity. So the fighters depend on the industrial players to provide all their gear; meanwhile the industrial players depend on PvPers to provide their market by continually buying and destroying stuff.
posted by mbrubeck at 5:08 PM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Not whether the ISS Empress Angelsmooch has 24 or 26 Kersplatotron III cannons: the real stuff.
Sigh. The ISS Empress Angelsmooch is a Ravishing-class battleship, and only has hardpoints for Kersplatotron II point defense cannons, not the Model III. I don't understand how somebody can not know this by now. Were you born in an abandoned tuskrat cave?
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:52 PM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Sigh. The ISS Empress Angelsmooch is a Ravishing-class battleship, and only has hardpoints for Kersplatotron II point defense cannons, not the Model III. I don't understand how somebody can not know this by now. Were you born in an abandoned tuskrat cave?
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:52 PM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Breaking news: Nulli Secunda just tried to gank a CFC titan in our own staging system. The titan was not paying attention and the Nulli fleet had our force field password. They used their ships to bump the titan out of the force field and then jumped a bunch in of dreadnoughts.
The CFC immdiately logged in a ton of subcaps, carriers, supercarriers, and titans. The carriers jumped out of system*, then back in and saved our titan. Then our titan and supercarrier fleet destroyed the hostile dreadnoughts. They died so fast that I was only able to get on a single dreadnought killmail, which was somewhat disappointing.
* EVE jump drives work like Half-Life teleporters. To jump between two points in the same system, you need to use a different system as a bounce.
posted by ryanrs at 7:39 PM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
The CFC immdiately logged in a ton of subcaps, carriers, supercarriers, and titans. The carriers jumped out of system*, then back in and saved our titan. Then our titan and supercarrier fleet destroyed the hostile dreadnoughts. They died so fast that I was only able to get on a single dreadnought killmail, which was somewhat disappointing.
* EVE jump drives work like Half-Life teleporters. To jump between two points in the same system, you need to use a different system as a bounce.
posted by ryanrs at 7:39 PM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Infinite monkeys and infinite typewriters might write Shakespeare, but several hundred thousand extremely dedicated people are creating the best strategic-level science fiction since those Terran Trade Authority books.
I'm not a big gamer and I don't have any real interest in playing EVE, but I love love love reading stories about EVE. I barely understand what's going on, but at arm's length EVE stories read like bizzaroworld news dispatches from an insane distant galaxy.
posted by quartzcity at 4:42 AM on July 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm not a big gamer and I don't have any real interest in playing EVE, but I love love love reading stories about EVE. I barely understand what's going on, but at arm's length EVE stories read like bizzaroworld news dispatches from an insane distant galaxy.
posted by quartzcity at 4:42 AM on July 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
BATTLE FOR 6VDT-H - SUMMARY AND NUMBERS from CCP's official dev blog. That blog is often gold with details on how they run this crazy realtime multiuser cluster, but no real technical info here.
posted by Nelson at 3:43 PM on July 30, 2013
posted by Nelson at 3:43 PM on July 30, 2013
I'm another person who reads about EVE but doesn't follow it. I love the banners for EVE on Something Awful, though. The latest ones say something like "Creepshots. Jailbait. Mens Rights. Destroy Reddit - in space!"
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 9:30 PM on July 31, 2013
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 9:30 PM on July 31, 2013
Ingen Kerr, who replaced Beffah as TEST military director only a couple weeks ago, has resigned.
TEST Membership Statistics
Expect slopes incoming.
posted by ryanrs at 8:37 PM on August 1, 2013
TEST Membership Statistics
Expect slopes incoming.
posted by ryanrs at 8:37 PM on August 1, 2013
"350 billion + every useful member [TEST] ever had
Not too shabby."
Grath Telkin, an angry man from Baltimore, reflects on Pandemic Legion's gains from the Fountain war.
posted by ryanrs at 2:20 PM on August 3, 2013
Not too shabby."
Grath Telkin, an angry man from Baltimore, reflects on Pandemic Legion's gains from the Fountain war.
posted by ryanrs at 2:20 PM on August 3, 2013
Yesterday's massive battle was not the turning point of the war. It was TEST's last stand. It was the final gasp of a broken organization throwing their ships away because they felt they ought to, not because they had any chance of winning.
posted by ryanrs at 3:20 AM on July 29 [24 favorites +] [!]
The CFC just took the last TEST system in Fountain, less than a week after I posted that. Time for everybody to go home and figure out what we're going to do next. (Probably harass people in hisec. It's been too long.)
posted by ryanrs at 5:56 PM on August 4, 2013
posted by ryanrs at 3:20 AM on July 29 [24 favorites +] [!]
The CFC just took the last TEST system in Fountain, less than a week after I posted that. Time for everybody to go home and figure out what we're going to do next. (Probably harass people in hisec. It's been too long.)
posted by ryanrs at 5:56 PM on August 4, 2013
The EVE battle logs: Going To War With Goonwaffe
Phil Hartup becomes the first embedded reporter in the largest virtual war the world has ever seen.
posted by fearfulsymmetry
People who know what they are talking about, feel free to skip this link. I had no real idea what was going on and read this. He did 3 days of reporting on the battle. From the perspective of a complete ignoramus, I felt that it gave a decent overview and insight into nullsec EVE. Between this and all of the posts by rynars (which have been great), I feel that I have an inkling into the glory and complete time sink that might be EVE. Or I might have it entirely wrong. Maybe this is all from the Goons' perspective and TEST would give a different story. I honestly have no idea. But I think it's fascinating. I also think that I absolutely don't have the time realistically get into EVE.
Short of following Something Awful (which feels eponymously somewhat awful) where do I go to read EVE updates every few months or so?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:43 PM on August 4, 2013
Phil Hartup becomes the first embedded reporter in the largest virtual war the world has ever seen.
posted by fearfulsymmetry
People who know what they are talking about, feel free to skip this link. I had no real idea what was going on and read this. He did 3 days of reporting on the battle. From the perspective of a complete ignoramus, I felt that it gave a decent overview and insight into nullsec EVE. Between this and all of the posts by rynars (which have been great), I feel that I have an inkling into the glory and complete time sink that might be EVE. Or I might have it entirely wrong. Maybe this is all from the Goons' perspective and TEST would give a different story. I honestly have no idea. But I think it's fascinating. I also think that I absolutely don't have the time realistically get into EVE.
Short of following Something Awful (which feels eponymously somewhat awful) where do I go to read EVE updates every few months or so?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:43 PM on August 4, 2013
A lot of EVE nullsec politics happens on Kugutsumen.com, a bad forum full of bad posters. (It really is quite bad.)
If you have specific questions about the war or how it was fought, feel free to ask them here. I was involved in quite a bit of it, including some of the planning and logistics. I also know a bit about the history that preceded the war.
posted by ryanrs at 12:45 AM on August 5, 2013
If you have specific questions about the war or how it was fought, feel free to ask them here. I was involved in quite a bit of it, including some of the planning and logistics. I also know a bit about the history that preceded the war.
posted by ryanrs at 12:45 AM on August 5, 2013
How to Destroy a Community: The identity one adopts in massively multiplayer games is a ripe target for psychological warfare
posted by homunculus at 7:07 PM on August 7, 2013
posted by homunculus at 7:07 PM on August 7, 2013
TEST's failcascade continues even after the shooting has stopped.
DingoGS leaves TEST Alliance.
Dingo was one of TEST's genuinely good fleet commanders (FC). He started out as a bomber FC wiping out whole fleets with a handful of frigates before moving on to command larger fleets. Here's a youtube video celebrating one of Dingo's more lopsided wins against -A- FC Makalu during the 2012 Delve war (back when TEST was still part of the CFC).
posted by ryanrs at 6:43 PM on August 9, 2013
DingoGS leaves TEST Alliance.
Dingo was one of TEST's genuinely good fleet commanders (FC). He started out as a bomber FC wiping out whole fleets with a handful of frigates before moving on to command larger fleets. Here's a youtube video celebrating one of Dingo's more lopsided wins against -A- FC Makalu during the 2012 Delve war (back when TEST was still part of the CFC).
posted by ryanrs at 6:43 PM on August 9, 2013
More TEST forum leaks re. Dingo
Now that the war is over, GSF spies have been tasked with leaking all the glorious infighting from TEST's private forums. Marvel as former space friends turn on each other and shred whatever remains of their once strong organization.
The CFC took Fountain, they did not kill TEST. But that doesn't mean TEST isn't going to die.
posted by ryanrs at 6:55 PM on August 9, 2013
Now that the war is over, GSF spies have been tasked with leaking all the glorious infighting from TEST's private forums. Marvel as former space friends turn on each other and shred whatever remains of their once strong organization.
The CFC took Fountain, they did not kill TEST. But that doesn't mean TEST isn't going to die.
posted by ryanrs at 6:55 PM on August 9, 2013
Here's the rest of the thread I linked in the previous comment.
page 1
page 2
page 3
I apologize (not really) for the micro-text screenshots saved as jpegs.
posted by ryanrs at 7:41 PM on August 9, 2013
page 1
page 2
page 3
I apologize (not really) for the micro-text screenshots saved as jpegs.
posted by ryanrs at 7:41 PM on August 9, 2013
Viktor Villiance, TEST's head diplomat has been fired.
The new TEST head diplo is apparently Dr. Kang of Ascendant.
Interesting fact: Ascendant used to be in my alliance but we kicked them out because they were a bunch of shitstirrers who loved instigating drama. There's no way that could end badly for TEST...
posted by ryanrs at 8:17 PM on August 9, 2013
The new TEST head diplo is apparently Dr. Kang of Ascendant.
Interesting fact: Ascendant used to be in my alliance but we kicked them out because they were a bunch of shitstirrers who loved instigating drama. There's no way that could end badly for TEST...
posted by ryanrs at 8:17 PM on August 9, 2013
BREAKING: TEST declares "didn't want that space anyway", begins Delve evacuation.
"If TEST in our current state was a fetus, and I was it's[sic] dad, I would abort it so fast Rush Limbaugh's head would spin."
—BoodaBooda, leader of TEST Alliance Please Ignore and CEO of Dreddit.
TEST's new home in Aridia low sec.
The CFC is already camping the evacuation route.
Goodbye, TEST.
posted by ryanrs at 11:37 PM on August 9, 2013
"If TEST in our current state was a fetus, and I was it's[sic] dad, I would abort it so fast Rush Limbaugh's head would spin."
—BoodaBooda, leader of TEST Alliance Please Ignore and CEO of Dreddit.
TEST's new home in Aridia low sec.
The CFC is already camping the evacuation route.
Goodbye, TEST.
posted by ryanrs at 11:37 PM on August 9, 2013
Christ, the CFC hadn't even announced the Delve invasion. It might not have even happened! It's like TEST is preemptively surrendering just to troll our logistics guys.
posted by ryanrs at 11:43 PM on August 9, 2013
posted by ryanrs at 11:43 PM on August 9, 2013
Endie's wrap-up post on the Fountain War.
Update: All This Has Happened Before
posted by ryanrs at 4:19 AM on August 14, 2013
Update: All This Has Happened Before
posted by ryanrs at 4:19 AM on August 14, 2013
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posted by TwelveTwo at 10:29 PM on July 28, 2013 [18 favorites]