Active shooter at Navy Yard in SE DC
September 16, 2013 7:11 AM Subscribe

Streaming video of local DC news as an active shooter situation is ongoing. There are 10 victims mentioned so far at least two police officers are involved. DCist broke the story before any local news stations did.

CNN has updated information as well. The Navy Yard is a former shipyard and ordnance plant.

posted by SuzySmith (493 comments total) 17 users marked this as a favorite

US Navy Twitter feed
posted by inigo2 at 7:13 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

WTOP's blogfeed. I do not recommend reading comments anywhere on WTOP's site, though.
posted by SuzySmith at 7:15 AM on September 16, 2013

It looks like there are now 12 people shot with four reported dead according to NBC4.
posted by SuzySmith at 7:16 AM on September 16, 2013

Ah hell, not this again.
posted by thelonius at 7:17 AM on September 16, 2013 [16 favorites]

I first learned about this from a high school classmate who works near there but is safe. Precious little on other social media.
posted by sweetkid at 7:18 AM on September 16, 2013

I know it's supposed to be too soon to bring this up, but I'm particularly struck by the fact that my horror at these events is now compounded by the certain knowledge that no matter how grisly, how nightmarish this incident turns out to be, absolutely nothing will change, and it will happen again. And again.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:20 AM on September 16, 2013 [101 favorites]

Precious little on other social media.

Have you checked #NavyYardShooting?

You'll have to judge the veracity of the sources, and there's some duplicate info, but I found it a pretty good roundup of the news thus far.
posted by dubold at 7:21 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

I'm just grateful that one of my dearest friends was downsized from there last year. This is so damn sad and frustrating.

NBC 4 just said that there are more than one shooter. At least two, one of whom has been injured.
posted by SuzySmith at 7:22 AM on September 16, 2013

Now we have three shooters, one appears "down"
posted by clavdivs at 7:22 AM on September 16, 2013

Oh but Horace, we shall need to arm everyone or melt all guns into art! For there is nothing else than can be done. This is America, land of extremes!!! #SickOfThisSh*t
posted by mr.curmudgeon at 7:23 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

The post is saying 3 shooters now.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 7:23 AM on September 16, 2013

it will happen again. And again.

Fortunately, we know how to stop it. Stop facilitating the fame of perpetrators by instantly and ceaselessly reporting on these incidents.

Unfortunately, that's not going to happen.
posted by cmoj at 7:23 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

All we need is some good guys with guns*, Whelk and all will be fine.

*Apparently in addition to the scores of military personnel and cops on the scene now.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 7:24 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

If you're going to post an update in this thread, please post a link to the source.
posted by dubold at 7:24 AM on September 16, 2013 [7 favorites]

Fortunately, we know how to stop it: more NSA surveillance.
posted by Slothrup at 7:25 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Stop facilitating the fame of perpetrators by instantly and ceaselessly reporting on these incidents.

What's the alternative to instant and regular reporting? Making sure the public receives no information on actively ongoing acts of mass violence?
posted by griphus at 7:25 AM on September 16, 2013 [30 favorites]

.
posted by jquinby at 7:26 AM on September 16, 2013

If you're going to post an update in this thread, please post a link to the source.

Ok: The post is saying 3 shooters now.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 7:26 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Washington Post's feed. (again, ignore the comments)
posted by SuzySmith at 7:27 AM on September 16, 2013

The FAA has issued a ground stop at National Airport.
posted by schmod at 7:28 AM on September 16, 2013

ABC news has said one shooter "contained"
posted by clavdivs at 7:28 AM on September 16, 2013

My neighborhood. Damn.
posted by MrMoonPie at 7:29 AM on September 16, 2013

I sometimes work at the Yard and have coworkers that are there now in lockdown (not in the NAVSEA building, thank g-d). It sounds like, according to Fox 5 and WTOP, that the shooter is trapped in the NAVSEA building on floor four.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 7:29 AM on September 16, 2013

The ground order has been cancelled according to the Fox 5 mobile feed.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 7:30 AM on September 16, 2013

Stay safe, MrMoonPie.
posted by SuzySmith at 7:31 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

The ground order has been cancelled

What's a ground order? Lie down on the ground and hope no one shoots you?
posted by pracowity at 7:33 AM on September 16, 2013

What's the alternative to instant and regular reporting? Making sure the public receives no information on actively ongoing acts of mass violence?

I live in Texas. This information has literally no utility for me. Even if I knew someone who was potentially directly affected by this, having to-the-minute updates on the situation would, again, have literally no utility for me.

Cover it locally. But it's way too profitable for CNN etc. when this happens, so here we are.
posted by cmoj at 7:33 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

What's a ground order?

The plane traffic at National airport was grounded earlier, according to Fox 5 that order has been cancelled so flights should resume.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 7:34 AM on September 16, 2013

[2nd paragraph]

At about 10:20 a.m., one shooter had been reported contained. However, at least one other gunman remained at large.

[8th paragraph]

Authorities say this a lone gunman.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:34 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

What's a ground order? Lie down on the ground and hope no one shoots you?

Grounding aircraft, that is.
posted by fifthrider at 7:35 AM on September 16, 2013

I don't understand why they grounded planes. The navy yard isn't very close to national.
posted by empath at 7:36 AM on September 16, 2013

What the hell.

How many more times?
posted by Gelatin at 7:37 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

I don't understand why they grounded planes.

So the gunmen don't try to get on one?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:37 AM on September 16, 2013

I don't understand why they grounded planes. The navy yard isn't very close to national.

I'm just guessing, but they probably went 'Oh shit! Stop until we figure out what's going on!' and then realised they didn't need the ground stop.
posted by hoyland at 7:38 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Once again the problem of gun free zones rears it's head. Clearly, we need to place armed guards at America's Military Bases.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:39 AM on September 16, 2013 [62 favorites]

I don't understand why they grounded planes.

May just be a standard precaution until local volatile situations are understood better.
posted by edgeways at 7:39 AM on September 16, 2013

So the gunmen don't try to get on one?

The airport is across the Potomac.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 7:39 AM on September 16, 2013

I don't understand why they grounded planes. The navy yard isn't very close to national.

I'm not sure if was Fox 5 or one of the other working feeds that mentioned it, but there are rumblings of the T word (terrorism) being associated with these shootings so ground planes makes sense.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 7:39 AM on September 16, 2013

They likely wanted to clear the airspace for police/medical helicopters and other air operations.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:39 AM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

I don't understand why they grounded planes. The navy yard isn't very close to national.

Maybe a flight path issue? Seems weird to me but the only other explanation than over-reaction I can think of.

So the gunmen don't try to get on one?

They're on two different lines (Navy Yard is Green, National is on Blue) and not remotely near each other in terms of walking.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:40 AM on September 16, 2013

(Folks please check up screen before presenting new info)
posted by clavdivs at 7:41 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

the only other explanation than over-reaction

I'm not sure another explanation than that is needed!
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 7:41 AM on September 16, 2013

I don't understand why they grounded planes. The navy yard isn't very close to national.

One officer was medically evacuated by helicopter from a rooftop, it might have been related to that.
posted by furtive at 7:41 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

The airport is across the Potomac.

From Ft. McNair. The Navy Yard is across the Anacostia from Anacostia.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 7:42 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Besides being a tragedy for the victims and their families, these shootings are one card of America's Rorschach test.

Either you tend to see more guns as the answer or less guns as the answer. Either you can disassociate the social cost of widespread gun ownership from your own right to own a gun or you can't.
posted by MuffinMan at 7:43 AM on September 16, 2013 [10 favorites]

Let's wait until more actual facts are out before we start speculating. We do this every time, and while it's always interesting to watch the story shift, it does't ever really help anyone here.

I hope all mefites in the neighborhood are safe.

So the gunmen don't try to get on one?

They'd shoot it down the moment it left the ground, if they even waited that long.
posted by quin at 7:43 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

I have a friend who works at the Naval Research Station (not very close at all) and they're currently in lock-down.
posted by codacorolla at 7:43 AM on September 16, 2013

Once again the problem of gun free zones rears it's head. Clearly, we need to place armed guards at America's Military Bases.

Where this shooting took place (NAVSEA HQ) is a secured building that requires a key card (and an associated clearance) and has a large and very visible security presence.

There is little to no security to get on the Yard though, outside of an ID check. It would be very easy to get weapons onto the grounds if you had a valid ID and were driving a car.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 7:43 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

From Ft. McHenry. The Navy Yard is across the Anacostia from Anacostia.

You can't get from the District to DCA without crossing the Potomac.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 7:44 AM on September 16, 2013

playertobenamedlater. I believe the quote you highlighed was probably sarcasm.
posted by anastasiav at 7:45 AM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

I believe the quote you highlighed was probably sarcasm.

I know, I just wanted to mention that since most people here probably haven't spent any time on the Yard or in that building. That the shooting took place there (versus the rest of the Yard that's completely open) is really odd.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 7:47 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

it will happen again. And again.

And again and again and again and again
Did they beat the drums slowly
Did they play the fife lowly
Did they sound the death march
As they lowered you down...?
posted by Melismata at 7:47 AM on September 16, 2013 [8 favorites]

You can't get from the District to DCA without crossing the Potomac.

True, but DCA is directly accross the river from Ft. McNair and Bolling AFB, the Navy Yard is up the Anacostia river in SE DC. From there to DCA you have to go over the baseball stadium, all of SW, Ft. McNair, Haynes Point, and THEN the Potomac.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 7:47 AM on September 16, 2013

They wouldn't need a ground stop at DCA to medevac anyone, as helicopters in the area of the Navy Yard can easily fly below the flight paths of airliners. In fact, the DC police have a heliport about a block away from the Navy yard. (I am a pilot, live in the neighborhood, and commute past the Navy Yard every day.) Anyway the ground stop was lifted very quickly.
posted by exogenous at 7:48 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

[2nd paragraph]

At about 10:20 a.m., one shooter had been reported contained. However, at least one other gunman remained at large.

[8th paragraph]

Authorities say this a lone gunman.

Yeah, this is a now-classic example of "reporting before anyone, even 'the authorities' have any idea WTF is going on."

I remember this clearly from the Boston Marathon bombings - of course, random civilians listening in on the police band and reporting as if APBs were actual news. But even more troubling, police officers listening in on the police band and talking to the reporters as if they were actually informed sources.
posted by muddgirl at 7:48 AM on September 16, 2013

Would be brilliant not to have folks descend into rote recital of various gun- and violence-related arguments and meta-arguments in here. I know there's not a ton of info so far but that might mean just not commenting now rather than looking for something quippy or snarky or fight-starting to fill time with.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:48 AM on September 16, 2013 [22 favorites]

Yeah, this is a now-classic example of "reporting before anyone, even 'the authorities' have any idea WTF is going on."

Tony Perkins from Fox 5 just told someone to stop talking when they started down the speculation without any official statement road.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 7:49 AM on September 16, 2013 [25 favorites]

They wouldn't need a ground stop at DCA to medevac anyone, as helicopters in the area of the Navy Yard can easily fly below the flight paths of airliners.

Also, the helicopters would be flying to hospitals, which are all within areas that are out of bounds for airliners.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 7:49 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Can we get some MS Paint over google maps going yet? You DC folks are already losing me.
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:50 AM on September 16, 2013

Well this is obviously not a priority but: I wonder if tonight's Nats game will be cancelled. Nats Park & Navy Yard share a metro station.
posted by troika at 7:51 AM on September 16, 2013

Perhaps it would be wise to determine whether the shooter in question is military personnel, government employee or a police officer -- someone who was actually trained to work with a gun -- before turning this thread into a discussion about gun control, which may not be related to the incident at hand.
posted by zarq at 7:53 AM on September 16, 2013 [10 favorites]

Region Begins National Preparedness Month, Asks ‘Are You Navy Ready?’
posted by clavdivs at 7:53 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Especially since this awful shooting happened at a military installation.
posted by zarq at 7:54 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Remember, if you're participating in what feels like the sort of derail that'd probably get deleted if a mod saw it, reload the thread to make sure that's not exactly what's already happened. You may be responding to ghosts. This goes double in fast-moving threads.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:56 AM on September 16, 2013 [8 favorites]

According to Fox 5 they've got two suspects down (shot) in Building 197 (NAVSEA HQ) due to police action.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 7:56 AM on September 16, 2013

Yes, the Navy Yard is on the Anacostia River. However, if you stood on the edge of the Navy Yard, you could look straight down the river and see the airport. If we want to be pedantic, DCA is indeed not "across the river," but it's not very far away. You can almost draw a straight line between the two, directly over water.

That being said, flights out of DCA rarely fly over the Navy Yard. Runway 22 is pointed in the right direction, but isn't used terribly frequently, as it's quite short and skirts a lot of restricted airspace.

Helicopter traffic around the Navy Yard and along the Anacostia is typically very heavy, so the flight restrictions are a bit perplexing.

The FAA probably have a legitimate aviation safety rationale for grounding traffic, but I'll be curious to see if they elaborate on what it is.
posted by schmod at 7:57 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Because all we know about them is that they shot some people?
posted by empath at 7:57 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

You may be responding to ghosts.

Words to live by.
posted by notyou at 7:58 AM on September 16, 2013 [18 favorites]

Yah it's hard to put together a personal profile when police are barely telling you how many people are involved...
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:58 AM on September 16, 2013

What is a shooter? Why do newspapers and media outlets get away with blithely describing people like this as "shooters," as though that's all we need to know about people who commit mass murder? As though there's nothing else to this?

Well, at this juncture, that is if anything responsible. We know that someone or someones are using a gun or guns to shoot people - that they are shooters. We know very little else. What would you have them say?
posted by kafziel at 7:58 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

clockzero: "What is a shooter? "

Synonym for gunman. Criminal armed with a gun. That's all we know right now. And some outlets are using the word 'gunman.'
posted by zarq at 7:58 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

I just meant that they couldn't just hop a plane without either a transfer at L'Enfant Plaza or a boat.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 7:59 AM on September 16, 2013

Look, we have this same conversation after every gun massacre. I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not going to change mine.
posted by Western Infidels at 7:59 AM on September 16, 2013 [34 favorites]

Perhaps it would be wise to determine whether the shooter in question is military personnel, government employee or a police officer -- someone who was actually trained to work with a gun -- before turning this thread into a discussion about gun control, which may not be related to the incident at hand.

That'd be my bet. Nearly all domestic terrorism in the US is committed by (ex-) military personnel.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:59 AM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

What is a shooter? Why do newspapers and media outlets get away with blithely describing people like this as "shooters," as though that's all we need to know about people who commit mass murder? As though there's nothing else to this?

A shooter is a person who shoots people. That sounds silly, but for right now that's all we know about them. Calling them a "shooter" without anything more would be a problem in a week or two when we know more about what's going on, but for right now, all we know is "someone is shooting people." For the time being, that person is a shooter.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:59 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Yes, the Navy Yard is on the Anacostia River. However, if you stood on the edge of the Navy Yard, you could look straight down the river and see the airport.

I can see that being a concern if the shooters arrived by boat.
posted by empath at 8:00 AM on September 16, 2013

Ed Zeigler (Navy spokesperson) confirms that two suspects are down (Fox5 feed).
posted by playertobenamedlater at 8:00 AM on September 16, 2013

JEBUS!

"shooter", it also denotes a good guy from bad when using COM traffic
posted by clavdivs at 8:00 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

I can see that being a concern if the shooters arrived by boat.

Assuming you're serious, you can't drive a boat to the Yard and get on the base without going through a gate of some form and I don't believe you could drive a boat up to the Yard at all. More than likely these suspects drove on to the base with a DoD ID that was cleared for access to the NAVSEA HQ.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 8:02 AM on September 16, 2013

From the news article linked about the shooter "down":

A woman who gave her name as Terry Durham said that as she and co-workers were evacuating, she saw a man down the hall raise a rifle and fire toward them, hitting a wall. “He was tall. He appeared to be dark-skinned,” she said.

“He was a tall black guy,” said her co-worker, Todd Brundage, who is black. “He didn’t say a word.”

Question: what color is the woman who gave her name as Terry Dunham?
posted by chavenet at 8:03 AM on September 16, 2013 [32 favorites]

It's my understanding that there is a lot of protected airspace in and around DC. In a volatile situation it doesn't strike me as an over-reaction to ground commercial and private flight so as to keep the airlanes clear, at least as a first-response. The fewer moving pieces the better, so to speak.

I'm a BIG civil libertarian who thinks that a ton of what we do in response to terrorism is overreach, but temporarily grounding all flights strikes me as a reasonable precaution to take.
posted by gauche at 8:04 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

The FAA probably have a legitimate aviation safety rationale for grounding traffic, but I'll be curious to see if they elaborate on what it is.

DCA is a Coast Guard airbase.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:04 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Sys Rq: "Nearly all domestic terrorism in the US is committed by (ex-) military personnel."

True. Rudolph, Nicols, McVeigh, Page, Dorner. All ex-mil.
posted by zarq at 8:04 AM on September 16, 2013 [12 favorites]

I work on the Navy Yard, but in a different building, thankfully. We're still sheltering in place, and hearing that we'll be evacuated at some point soon. We've heard reports that shots were fired within the last 10 minutes, but didn't hear them directly.
posted by Zonker at 8:05 AM on September 16, 2013 [32 favorites]

Worth noting: There are no "DC Police" as such. By virtue of being a federal district, DC has a multitude of law enforcement and police agencies.

When discussing conflicting reports, the Media would do well to differentiate between the Metropolitan Police, Military Police, Capitol Police, Transit Police, etc... The Metropolitan Police are our local police force, although I'm honestly not sure what sort of jurisdiction they have over military bases. (Damnit, CNN. These things matter!)

Also worth noting: I think that folks are a bit spooked, because the NAVSEA building is rather far away from New Jersey Avenue, where another victim was purportedly found. Either this means that there are multiple shooters, or that a lone shooter was able to cover a lot of distance without being noticed.
posted by schmod at 8:05 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

It would be odd to start describing a person by their profession as soon as the shooter was identified. We would start hearing things like, 'there are two cost accountants holed up on the forth floor' and anyone late too the game would be thinking wow - that is one hell of an audit there it makes the national news. Hey, why does they accountant have an uzi?' Shooter is good shorthand. It tells you 'danger' and 'gun' without giving us the thought that this is a religious terrorist, a domestic terrorist, gang violence, a workplace violence, a military soldier's ptsd gone wrong or any other conclusion we could complain they are jumping to. Shooter, is perhaps the most accurate shorthand out of the news media in decades.
posted by Nanukthedog at 8:06 AM on September 16, 2013 [9 favorites]

Zonker - are you in building 36?
posted by playertobenamedlater at 8:06 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Stay safe, Zonker.
posted by Gelatin at 8:07 AM on September 16, 2013 [6 favorites]

Either this means that there are multiple shooters, or that a lone shooter was able to cover a lot of distance without being noticed.

That person was dropped off by MPD. Here's an eyewitness account.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 8:07 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

If you have family members at the Navy Yard, you can meet them at Nationals Park Stadium Parking Lot B.
posted by schmod at 8:10 AM on September 16, 2013

Washington Post seems to be the most accurate.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:10 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

The Metropolitan Police are our local police force, although I'm honestly not sure what sort of jurisdiction they have over military bases. (Damnit, CNN. These things matter!)

Local TV news made it sound like MPD was supporting military police, who were in charge. Caveat: Local TV news can be, and often is, completely wrong.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:10 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Washington Post seems to be the most accurate.

My god, that statement hasn't been uttered since Watergate!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:11 AM on September 16, 2013 [13 favorites]

The Post blog has at least one piece of misinformation, albeit minor. It reports that no other Navy facilities are locked down, but the Naval Research Lab is on lockdown.
posted by exogenous at 8:13 AM on September 16, 2013

Yes, I'm in 36. We're staying in touch through email and texts.
posted by Zonker at 8:13 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

The Post blog has at least one piece of misinformation, albeit minor. It reports that no other Navy facilities are locked down, but the Naval Research Lab is on lockdown.

Well, to be fair, they seem to have gotten the information from the Navy.
posted by OmieWise at 8:15 AM on September 16, 2013

Used to live right near there (obviously re: my username). Praying for all the folks I know still there.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:15 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

Stay safe in 36 and keep the lights off and your head down. I was supposed to have a meeting on the Yard today but it got pushed to Wednesday and is probably cancelled now. This is just insane.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 8:15 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

Zonker, glad you're okay.
posted by zarq at 8:15 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

I lived around the Navy Yard for years & based on my experience the population there is like 90% babies, so this is particularly awful in my mind.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:17 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Thanks for all the good wishes and info. Haven't felt like this since 9/11 in NYC.
posted by Zonker at 8:18 AM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

The talking head on Fox5 is wrong on the metal detectors and how the weapons got on base. There are no checks on cars at the Yard outside of your ID and parking sticker (recently eliminated). I also don't remember there being any metal detectors in NAVSEA HQ and I know, for certain, there are NO scanners or security scans in Building 36 or most of the other Navy Yard buildings.

If you drive a car and have a DoD badge you can drive anything on to the Navy Yard that will fit in your car.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 8:18 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

From the Post's liveblog:

The D.C. Police are reporting that family members can reunite at Nationals Park’s Parking Lot B, located at South Capitol and K streets Southeast.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:21 AM on September 16, 2013

The front page of boston.com right now is just WRONG. There's a large headline at the top about the shooting, and right underneath an even larger photograph of Miss America in a bikini. Wrong.
posted by Melismata at 8:22 AM on September 16, 2013

I wish I knew what the reuniting means. I have a friend whose fiance works in that bldg. Has it been evacuated? Who will be at the Nats lot?
posted by OmieWise at 8:23 AM on September 16, 2013

There's a large headline at the top about the shooting, and right underneath an even larger photograph of Miss America in a bikini. Wrong.

"Ain't that America . . ."
posted by Countess Elena at 8:23 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

OmieWise, Zonker said they're going to evacuate. I imagine that that's where they'll evacuate to.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:24 AM on September 16, 2013

What's the alternative to instant and regular reporting? Making sure the public receives no information on actively ongoing acts of mass violence?

I live in Texas. This information has literally no utility for me. Even if I knew someone who was potentially directly affected by this, having to-the-minute updates on the situation would, again, have literally no utility for me.

I live in NYC but grew up in Northern Virginia and am getting a bunch of updates from high school classmates and old neighbors who either narrowly avoided this lockdown or know people in it. I'm glad there is reporting on it. It's great that it doesn't affect you but DC is a high target area, and we have a a highly mobile culture in the US so "cover it locally" doesn't really cut it. If this is an uninteresting topic for you, you can always not follow media or participate in threads about the incident.
posted by sweetkid at 8:25 AM on September 16, 2013 [26 favorites]

TPM is saying there'll be a news conference at 11:30.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:26 AM on September 16, 2013

NBC4 Washington is saying that "the shooter is dead".
posted by royalsong at 8:27 AM on September 16, 2013

Eyewitness interviewed on WTOP said she was in the cafeteria at 8:20 AM (assumed on the 4th floor of Building 197) heard 3 gunshots then 4 more.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:28 AM on September 16, 2013

A shooter is dead.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:28 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Apparently at least some people from bldg 197 where the shooting happened are already off the yard. No idea where they're taken (stadium would be logical) or how many still on lockdown.
posted by Zonker at 8:28 AM on September 16, 2013

At least eight dead
posted by exogenous at 8:28 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

I live in Texas.

You should also remember that not all MeFites live in the US. However, there is no way I would barge into a thread that is not about something happening in Canada for example and say it is "useless."
posted by KokuRyu at 8:30 AM on September 16, 2013 [29 favorites]

playertobenamedlater: Tony Perkins from Fox 5 just told someone to stop talking when they started down the speculation without any official statement road.

That's refreshing, but I foresee future "news coverage" to include "professionals" being called in to guess what the hell went on and why. I wish this weren't the case, but that's a problem with 24 hour news coverage and the need to be the first with some sort of coverage, even if it's pretty wild guessing from someone with a decent background.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:30 AM on September 16, 2013

The 10th Regiment of Foot: I was only quoting what they said on the livestream, and they specifically said the. They went on to say that they're not sure if that shooter is part of the reported dead from earlier or fresh information. They said two different police spokespersons told them this.
posted by royalsong at 8:31 AM on September 16, 2013

That's refreshing, but I foresee future "news coverage" to include "professionals" being called in to guess what the hell went on and why.

The cynic in me thinks that they haven't gotten their makeup on and live links set up yet.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 8:31 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

According to the Post, CNN is saying that the Navy reports two shooters "down."
posted by OmieWise at 8:36 AM on September 16, 2013

Fortunately, we know how to stop it. Stop facilitating the fame of perpetrators by instantly and ceaselessly reporting on these incidents.

And yet here we all are.
posted by bonaldi at 8:36 AM on September 16, 2013 [6 favorites]

If you drive a car and have a DoD badge you can drive anything on to the Navy Yard that will fit in your car.

That's pretty much any military base unless you get pulled for a random search. I worked at NSWCDD for several years and you could carry anything on base, however try to get on base with a dead inspection sticker...
posted by SuzySmith at 8:40 AM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

Good to see the confusion has started on false reports - Fox5, in the span of a minute, reported a shooting at Bolling AF and then a non-shooting at Bolling.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 8:40 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Just to expound on what schmod said, there are lots and lots of police departments in DC. I've seen on a live stream Park Police helicopters evacuating people. I know Prince George's county fire department is lending and routing trucks to fires/emergencies in DC right now.

The DC/MD/VA/federal government had a big exercise at the end of June of the Incident Command System (ICS) which is designed to weave these different agencies/police departments together. They simulated a morning rush hour terrorist attack around S. Capitol and Potomac Ave. Quoting from a DC Alerts email from that time the agencies involved were:

• The Executive Office of the Mayor (EOM)
• District of Columbia Consequence Management Team (CMT)
• District of Columbia Homeland Security and Emergency Management Agency (HSEMA)
• Metropolitan Police (MPD)
• District of Columbia Department Fire and EMS (FEMS)
• District of Columbia Department of Health (DOH)
• District of Columbia Department of Transportation DDOT)
• District Department of Consumer and Regulatory Affairs (DCRA)
• District of Columbia Department of Public Works (DPW)
• District Office of Unified Communications (OUC)
• District Office of the Chief Medical Examiner (OCME)
• District Office of the Chief Technology Officer (OCTO)
• Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (WMATA)
• Select members of the Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF)
• Select members of the 33rd Civil Support Team.

So. This is complicated.
posted by fontophilic at 8:41 AM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

NewYorkPost.com headline: "Ryan Zimmerman & Denard Span Murder Entire US Navy, Yanks Take NL EAST Wild Card"

this post is satire
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:44 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

The live video stream is now just silently showing the back of the White House, which is a little unnerving.
posted by jquinby at 8:46 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Look, we've all just agreed this is the appropriate sacrifice for having zero to non-existent gun laws and mental health care in this country. This is how it's supposed to work, for freedom.
posted by The Whelk at 7:22 AM on September 16 [19 favorites]

So you all agree that this is a. A Gun Nut (or three), and b. A Whack Job (or three). No further evidence required.
posted by Gungho at 8:47 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

Twitter reports of shots fired at Bolling Air Force Base.
posted by EvaDestruction at 8:47 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Eh, never mind. The newsroom is back on now.
posted by jquinby at 8:47 AM on September 16, 2013

Anyway the ground stop was lifted very quickly.

No: KDCA ground stop posted at 1312Z (0912EDT) until 1415Z, extended to 1430Z at 1326Z, reiterated at 1407Z, and extended again at 1531A to 1630Z, or 1230EDT. It remains in effect.

I suspect that reineration was a miskey of an extension to 1530Z.

At 1335Z, the FAA activated the diversion recovery tool, which is used to allow airliner to prioritized diverted flights to DCA when the airport reopens. It's only used when there's more arrival demand than the airport can handle -- if the airport could handle all the incoming traffic, flights would just be released once the airport opens.

My gut feeling is this ground stop is unjustifiable, but I don't know the entire situation.

As of now (1546Z, 1046EDT), KDCA remains in a ground stop, so arrivals to KDCA cannot take off, and the DRT being activated implies that inbounds already in the air are being diverted. No official departure hold has been posted for National, but I suspect if they aren't letting anyone it, they're not letting anyone out.
posted by eriko at 8:48 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

chavenet: Question: what color is the woman who gave her name as Terry Dunham?

Oh, please. Reporting the physical description of a suspect is routine. Skin color is one of the most immediately recognizable physical attributes. Why are people so determined to find OMG RACISM?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:49 AM on September 16, 2013

Oh, please. Reporting the physical description of a suspect is routine. Skin color is one of the most immediately recognizable physical attributes. Why are people so determined to find OMG RACISM?

No, the wierd thing is that they gave the race of the guy who called the shooter "black" but not the woman who called the shooter "dark-skinned".
posted by Jahaza at 8:51 AM on September 16, 2013 [8 favorites]

I suspect if they aren't letting anyone it, they're not letting anyone out.

My office is not far from DCA. Planes still seem to be coming in for landing. There goes one now.
posted by 0 at 8:51 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Reporting the physical description of a suspect is routine.

And reporting the physical description of the eyewitness?
posted by Slothrup at 8:51 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

You should also remember that not all MeFites live in the US. However, there is no way I would barge into a thread that is not about something happening in Canada for example and say it is "useless."

I took that cmoj meant that "blow by blow" "reporting" that consists of repeating already known details along with the occasional update that often is rescinded because it was based on nothing, really, is exhausting. I live in Providence and have many friends in Boston, and I pretty much cut myself off from broadcasts on the bombing, because it really did nothing but fuel tension and anxieties. People in DC reasonably need to know details about this event. The rest of the country and the world probably can wait for more reliable news. (If you have family or friends in the area, it's not too hard to tap into the local news. And I am sorry for the tension you must feel.)

I am bothered by how the news has gone back to the most sensational approach to keep eyes glued to screens. This does not help us as a population.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:51 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

The WaPo blog says that there was no shooting at Bolling:

Gwen Crump, a spokeswoman for the D.C. police, just said in a news conference that reports of a shooting Joint Base Anacostia-Bolling Air Force Base were false. Multiple outlets reported that there was a potential shooting there, but Crump said there was no shooting there.

posted by Gelatin at 8:51 AM on September 16, 2013

fontophilic: " I know Prince George's county fire department is lending and routing trucks to fires/emergencies in DC right now. "

Not terribly surprising, given that DC Fire & EMS have been notoriously short on staff and equipment for the past two years.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this incident results in extra funding and a huge staffing shake-up at the department, given that the department's troubles have only gotten fairly limited attention until recently.
posted by schmod at 8:53 AM on September 16, 2013

Used to live right near there (obviously re: my username)...
posted by Potomac Avenue

All these years I've been wondering and you named yourself after the street you lived on?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:53 AM on September 16, 2013 [9 favorites]

I really wish the news would drop the metal detectors nonsense. There is next to no barrier to get on the Navy Yard. Into NAVSEA, yes, but on the Yard itself? No, just a DoD badge or a temporary pass through the visitors office. There are no car scans.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 8:54 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Yes thats what I'd have you believe Tell Me No Lies. But...does that satisfy you? What am I covering up? The truth is out there.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:55 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

No, the wierd thing is that they gave the race of the guy who called the shooter "black" but not the woman who called the shooter "dark-skinned".

On the one hand I thought it was specifically interesting as a dynamic where a (by implication not-black) witness identified that shooter as dark-skinned and then an explicitly black witness countered/supplemented with "he was black", because there's like three different awkward scenes that could be playing out in an episode of The Office there re: white lady not wanting to be all "it was a black dude!" in front of her coworker the also-black dude and said dude being like, oh, come on already, or some other variant on that, etc.

On the other hand, it could just be spotty reporting put together on the quick when careful interviewing and careful writing weren't in the cards and we're reading something into it that's not really even there.

Anyway, not exactly a central detail to the whole thing at this point.
posted by cortex at 8:55 AM on September 16, 2013 [18 favorites]

And now Fox5 has brought in some bozo that's trying to tie the mess in Syria into this shooting. Way to go dildos.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 8:56 AM on September 16, 2013 [12 favorites]

So you all agree that this is a. A Gun Nut (or three), and b. A Whack Job (or three). No further evidence required.

What else could it be? Seriously. I guess "gun nut" and "whack job" are not the worlds most precise terms but essentially, how could it be anything else?
posted by gentian at 8:57 AM on September 16, 2013

Potomac Avenue: "Yes thats what I'd have you believe Tell Me No Lies. But...does that satisfy you? What am I covering up? The truth is out there."

Hmmm..."Potamac Avenue" = "A Pecan Toe Ovum"

strokes chin, nods slowly
posted by jquinby at 8:58 AM on September 16, 2013 [6 favorites]

I kind of think they identified the black guy in that quote because the first (presumably white) witness had said the shooter was black, and then the second witness confirmed it, and the fact that the second witness was also black is supposed to reassure the reader that it's not just a case of "white person assuming bad guys are black." Look, a black person agrees! The shooter is black. No racism here!

It's clumsy and doesn't work, but I think that might have been their thought process.
posted by emjaybee at 8:58 AM on September 16, 2013 [8 favorites]

No, the wierd thing is that they gave the race of the guy who called the shooter "black" but not the woman who called the shooter "dark-skinned".

They needed to rework that paragraph, probably leaving the woman out entirely. From the context it seems clear to me that they wanted to make it clear that it was a black guy identifying the shooters as black in order to dodge a shitstorm later if they turned out to be neon green.

Since the woman stuck with "dark-skinned" they didn't need to cover themselves that way but instead ended up with this. Avoiding charges of racism is a tricky game.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:00 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

What else could it be? Seriously. I guess "gun nut" and "whack job" are not the worlds most precise terms but essentially, how could it be anything else?

Those terms imply "lone crazy who was always going to snap eventually and who could never have been prevented from doing this." They're hopeless, dismissive terms. They suggest no possible course of action beyond throwing up our hands and/or snarking about Fox News.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:01 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

(I am working from home today but) I work at USDOT, which is right across the street from the Navy Yard--most of the TV news cameras are right in front of my office building. We have at this point received 13 emails from the Department stating: the building is on lockdown, stay away from windows, and if you are not inside the building GO HOME.
posted by psoas at 9:02 AM on September 16, 2013

Quick, blame Grand Theft Auto 5!
posted by Old'n'Busted at 9:08 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Quick, blame Grand Theft Auto 5!

"Grand Theft Auto 5 features a 3 character single player campaign, which may have influenced the main shooter to go find two friends before heading to the Naval Yard."
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:11 AM on September 16, 2013 [26 favorites]

Well, it could be Muslims. GTA V or Muslims, those are the two choices.
posted by Artw at 9:11 AM on September 16, 2013 [7 favorites]

I just caught this - we have Sky News on in our office but the aston under the headline was too small for me to make out.

We're planning a trip to Washington in the future, and my mum will no doubt use this as a reason to dissuade me, as when I once said I wanted to go to New York:

mum: what do you want to go there for?
me: Er...it looks interesting!
mum: They've got GUNS!
me: Mum, I live in Manchester, they have guns here.
mum: Yes, but they aren't supposed to!

Though yesterday I was reading through some old New York magazines from the seventies and got the feeling that NYC was once considered a very violent and/or dangerous place, so her feelings make sense. A lot of people in my office have told me that Washington is 'dangerous' or 'violent' - while we get a disproportionate sense of gun violence in the US thanks to (often sensationalist) reports on public/school shootings, I've wondered where this impression stems from. What's the city like for those who live there? Does it feel like the kind of place where random shootings should be happening, or is this an out of the blue thing?
posted by mippy at 9:12 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

KDCA ground stop lifted at 1601Z (1101EDT.)
posted by eriko at 9:12 AM on September 16, 2013

Quick, blame Grand Theft Auto 5!

Not that this will stop the usual nutters, but GTAV doesn't even come out until tomorrow.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:13 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Via the WaPo blog, the AP reports at least six dead.

.

Three others, including a police officer, were admitted to Washington Hospital Center in critical condition but with a good prognosis.
posted by Gelatin at 9:13 AM on September 16, 2013

This is what ABC's reporting now: Navy Yard Rampage Ends When Ex-Navy Official Killed
posted by EvaDestruction at 9:13 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

N.B.: auto-play video on EvaDestruction's link.
posted by jquinby at 9:15 AM on September 16, 2013

An MPD officer has reached the room where my group is holed up; we can't leave just yet but are feeling safer. The overall Yard still is not secured, they're working on that now
posted by Zonker at 9:15 AM on September 16, 2013 [21 favorites]

Though yesterday I was reading through some old New York magazines from the seventies and got the feeling that NYC was once considered a very violent and/or dangerous place, so her feelings make sense. A lot of people in my office have told me that Washington is 'dangerous' or 'violent'

That was true for New York, but has not been so for decades.

For Washington, it was truer more recently, but anyone who would call it generally unsafe now is paranoid or delusional. Today's events are news because this is a highly unusual situation.
posted by psoas at 9:16 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

N.B.: auto-play video on EvaDestruction's link.

Combined with the shooting and the weird crime spree from last week, I feel like I'm back in the 90s.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:16 AM on September 16, 2013

DC police say they are looking for two additional shooters, one a white male in something that looks like a khaki uniform w/ beret, carrying a handgun -- one black male in his 50s in olive drab w/ a long gun.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:16 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Zonker - that's great news. We still haven't heard from our folks yet.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 9:16 AM on September 16, 2013

Good. Friend's fiance is safe and off Yard.
posted by OmieWise at 9:17 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

I like that Lanier pretty much dismissed what Vincent Gray said. Sounds like we're still looking for two other potential "shooters".
posted by playertobenamedlater at 9:18 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Lordy, that ABC News article is a mess:

Outside the building she saw a security with her gun drawn who told them to run and shelter.

Ward said the building has security.

"You need a car to enter the building. It's very hard to get in without a card," she said.

posted by wenestvedt at 9:18 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

Sorry, my browser is sufficiently slow that it didn't actually load the video before I finished reading the article, so I didn't realize. Thanks for the heads up, jquinby.

Glad to see better news from Zonker and OmieWise. Hope everyone's loved ones are safe.
posted by EvaDestruction at 9:18 AM on September 16, 2013

Skin color is one of the most immediately recognizable physical attributes.

[slightly off topic]

I've always found the idea that this was a touchy subject when identifying someone an interesting phenomena. Living in a culturally diverse area, when describing someone, it seems that going from most obvious to least obvious to be the most useful.

Name (if possible), Where that person is most likely to be found, Color, Gender, Height, Build/Weight. noteworthy characteristic (hair, clothes, etc)

When I want to direct someone to someone else, I'm going to say, "You're looking for John, he's over there. White guy, about my height but skinny. He's got blond hair and usually wears a baseball cap."

Unless the entire group of people was of a single gender or race, I can't imagine leaving it out. It's pertinent info when describing someone. It's less helpful when that description is used for profiling though, because then it starts to feel like an agenda.
posted by quin at 9:21 AM on September 16, 2013

Fortunately, we know how to stop it. Stop facilitating the fame of perpetrators by instantly and ceaselessly reporting on these incidents.

Not trying to derail here, but it's clear some perpetrators do it for fame, and others for other reasons.
posted by newdaddy at 9:22 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

News reports that first shooter ID'ed as a civilian Navy employee.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:23 AM on September 16, 2013

That was true for New York, but has not been so for decades.

Yep - I was reading up on it because of an episode of Mad Men where a character bought a building that was dangerous and in a dodgy area, but the address (Upper West Side?) was one I'd always associated with the rich. I'm still never sure though whether people think places in the US are 'unsafe' purely down to the availability of guns - after all, knife crime is very very common in some parts of London, but you are unlikely to experience it if you're a middle-aged white man who doesn't walk through estates at night.

Also, Amazon UK has already delivered pre-order copies of GTAV.
posted by mippy at 9:23 AM on September 16, 2013

mippy, the Upper West Side was an extremely sketchy neighborhood in the 1960s, 70s and even the 80s.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:24 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

What's the city like for those who live there? Does it feel like the kind of place where random shootings should be happening, or is this an out of the blue thing?

I can't speak specifically to DC or New York -- I've only visited, not resided in those cities -- but considering myself fairly well-traveled to various large cities around the world, most of them (London, NYC, Paris, Singapore, Sydney, Istanbul, etc) don't necessarily feel more or less safe than any other. I still avoid dark alleys and bad neighborhoods no matter where I am. I guess the biggest difference to me is that, having grown up in the US, I have always assumed that if I were a victim of crime, whether it be mugging or I'm in a convenience store that's robbed or attempted rape or whatever, that there will be a gun involved. Living in the UK now I get the sense that this is not the default assumption most people go through life with. Then again, I've never before worried about knife violence, so this is new and alarming to me. My current UK city seems to have a concerningly disproportionate number of stabbings (and a local sensationalist paper run by the Daily Mail) that worry me in ways the prospect of gun violence in the US never really has. It's all in your perspective and experience, I guess.

There are US neighborhoods in some cities, big and small, where gun and other forms of violence are more likely to happen. Generally, though, that threat seems to be targeted toward the residents of that neighborhood, not casual visitors.

I don't think anyone in the US, in any city, considers mass shootings a normal or probable "should be happening" occurrence. Most people in most US cities go about their day each day assuming they'll emerge unscathed. Most do so successfully.

Don't be afraid to visit!
posted by olinerd at 9:30 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Does it feel like the kind of place where random shootings should be happening, or is this an out of the blue thing?

My experience with the US as a whole--as someone who was born here and has lived here their whole life--is that in most places both of these things are true simultaneously. I'm 33 and have lived in a handful of biggish US cities--Cleveland, Akron, Sacramento, Syracuse, and now north of Pittsburgh, in the least big-city place I've ever lived. And in all of them, random shootings are things that I expect to happen, at least occasionally, but it's somehow always surprising when they do. Several times I've been either told to stay in my house (because cops and shooter) or barred from entering my street--once in a very questionable area, once in a lower-middle-class area, and once at my parents' upper-middle-class neighborhood. I've also called the cops a couple of times on "Hey, uh, there's a dude? With a weapon? Just kinda...walking around?" It's just a thing that happens, and in some areas, dude with a weapon is a big deal, and in some, not so much.

On the other hand, the number of times that I've been personally affected by random shootings is pretty limited, and it's always been either a "don't come home/leave home right now" situation or something where a friend of a friend got shot. Gun violence as a whole isn't really a thing I worry about, just a thing that I'm aware of and sometimes it happens and that's sad, but also...you know, kinda par for the course. (Which isn't, obviously, to say that I think that mass shootings, or any shootings, are ok things, but...like, cancer isn't an ok thing, either, and it still happens.)
posted by MeghanC at 9:32 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

mippy the per capita murder rate in the US is four times higher than that of the UK. Generally speaking the US is less safe; at least by that hard to juke metric. DC has a per capita murder rate 20 times that of the UK average. Quantitatively DC is a much more dangerous place relative to the UK average.

And DC has the second highest per capita murder rate amongst the US states/territories trailing only Puerto Rico.

Numbers from Wikipedia; take that for what it's worth.
posted by Mitheral at 9:34 AM on September 16, 2013

Hope everyone stays safe and the situation resolves soon.
posted by arcticseal at 9:37 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

I can't wrap my head around what "big city violence" has to do with a premeditated shooting by what looks like a "disgruntled" employee. Sandy Hook would be one of those places classified as "safe".

Besides, there's the idea that rural areas are more "dangerous" than urban areas.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:37 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Seems to me mass shootings are different than "crime".

I've been afraid I'd get shot a few times. Never afaid I'd get randomly shot.
posted by Ad hominem at 9:38 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

I know it's supposed to be too soon to bring this up, but I'm particularly struck by the fact that my horror at these events is now compounded by the certain knowledge that no matter how grisly, how nightmarish this incident turns out to be, absolutely nothing will change, and it will happen again. And again.

Until a black or brown person does it. Only then can you expect very sensible, restrictive gun rules.
posted by Renoroc at 9:38 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

This was almost certainly not a "random" shooting, and likely bears no connection between overall crime trends in American cities. It's not exactly like a criminal was attempting to hold up a liquor store, but accidentally wandered (unnoticed) into an enormous military installation instead.

Even though I'd love to talk at length on the subject, any discussion about the overall "safety" of DC/NYC is a bit derail-y at this point.

That being said, holy shit, there have been a lot of shootings in my corner of DC this week.
posted by schmod at 9:38 AM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

Navy yard used to be (in the late 90s) one of the worst neighborhoods in dc. Just a few blocks of sketchy nightclubs and what a lot of people would call crack houses. It was the kind of neighborhood where open air drug markets were tolerated but police would pull you over if you were white, because you were either lost or there to buy drugs.

It also had almost all of the gay nightclubs and strip clubs in the city as well as one of the best nightclubs full-stop in the country that I went to every weekend for years and eventually dj'd at. It was basically my second home on the weekends.

The new stadium came in and they tore down everything and now there is a nice park and a bunch of boring high-rises and I hate it.
posted by empath at 9:38 AM on September 16, 2013 [7 favorites]

I'd not be surprised if the "additional shooters" turn out to be artifacts of the confusion, and of reporting rumors, and that the police simply have to treat these reports as serious. If so, this is shaping up to be a routine (lord!) workplace shooting by a disgruntled employee.
posted by thelonius at 9:38 AM on September 16, 2013

Does it feel like the kind of place where random shootings should be happening, or is this an out of the blue thing?

There are a lot of folks in the Defense arena in the DC area that are starting to see the writing on the wall as far as the sequester and budget cuts go. Some of these folks have seriously long commutes in some of the worst traffic in the US doing work that stopped being interesting 10 years into a 30+ year career. Being told "your position is being eliminated" when you're living close to the bone in a seriously expensive metro area can send people over the edge.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 9:38 AM on September 16, 2013 [7 favorites]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that this was an everyday thing in the US. I think it's just how the media tends to spin it here - forgetting that for about thirty years there was a part of the UK where bombs were a fact of life, and that the mainland got bombed abotu as often as a public shooting takes place.

olinerd - I think you're in the same city as me, and I remember that paper writing about how knife crime was another 'teenage fad'. Thanks for that.
posted by mippy at 9:39 AM on September 16, 2013

Anyway, yes, sorry to derail here. Keep safe DC.
posted by mippy at 9:40 AM on September 16, 2013

Though yesterday I was reading through some old New York magazines from the seventies and got the feeling that NYC was once considered a very violent and/or dangerous place, so her feelings make sense.

Yeah, NYC was pretty messy in the 70s and early to mid 80s. It is now probably one of the safest large cities in the US.
posted by elizardbits at 9:41 AM on September 16, 2013

DC has a per capita murder rate 20 times that of the UK average. Quantitatively DC is a much more dangerous place relative to the UK average.

And DC has the second highest per capita murder rate amongst the US states/territories trailing only Puerto Rico.

You're comparing a city with a country, and a city with states. Those aren't valid comparisons.
posted by inigo2 at 9:42 AM on September 16, 2013 [11 favorites]

Just to weigh in on the skin-color side issue:

Yes, skin color is/can be pertinent to a physical description. But nowadays there's a reluctance/uncertainty about using it because historically, people - especially white people - have had a habit of including someone's ethnicity when it was completely spurious, out of (arguably, in at least some cases) unconscious or conscious racism. E.g. "I was driving along and this asian lady cut me off." "I was at the shop and the indian cashier gave me terrible service!" "Yeah, he's really articulate! He's black by the way!"

Avoiding that might be clumsy, or even counterproductive sometimes, like in this case. But I can see why a white person in particular would be habitually nervous about being too forward with volunteering the race of a criminal, in the spur of the moment.
posted by Drexen at 9:42 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that this was an everyday thing in the US. I think it's just how the media tends to spin it here

Don't feel bad, I was in Guatemala when Aurora happened and locals asked me what it was like living in such a violent country. This is in a town where one of the roads into it was impassible because of bandits. It's the senselessness of it that gets to people. Bandits and turf wars feel like something people can understand an work around. Getting gunned down in an office is just...chaos.
posted by empath at 9:43 AM on September 16, 2013 [9 favorites]

As a Brit in the US I certainly get a pang of "why the fuck to I live here?" every time something like this goes down in the vicinity. Last one was some guy freaking out at a bus driver, shooting him multiple times, sprinting two blocks and getting shot by the police attempting to hijack the bus. I walked right through the area this took place in pretty much as it happened.
posted by Artw at 9:44 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

I'd not be surprised if the "additional shooters" turn out to be artifacts of the confusion, and of reporting rumors, and that the police simply have to treat these reports as serious.

The WaPo blog quotes D.C. police chief Cathy Lanier:

Lanier said that one of the shooters was a white male seen at around 8:40 a.m. this morning with a khaki tan military uniform and a beret. He was last seen with a handgun, she said. And she said police are also looking out for a black man, approximately 50 years old, who may have been in possession of a “long gun.” That man was wearing an olive military-style uniform.

Given that each of these individuals was reported as wearing some sort of uniform, I wonder if they might be security personnel of some kind. As such, it'd make sense they had weapons drawn and perhaps even firing at what the perceive as a suspect. Naturally the police would need to take the sightings seriously until such time as the reports can be verified or ruled out.

I hope the danger is over with the death of the one apparent gunman.
posted by Gelatin at 9:45 AM on September 16, 2013

We've probably moved on from the gun violence discussion, but there are really two DCs. Anacostia and a couple of other neighborhoods are very dangerous, the rest aren't.

A while back, the Washington Post Magazine did an article on "How many people do you know who have been shot?" It's a fascinating read.
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 9:45 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

There are a lot of folks in the Defense arena in the DC area that are starting to see the writing on the wall as far as the sequester and budget cuts go. Some of these folks have seriously long commutes in some of the worst traffic in the US doing work that stopped being interesting 10 years into a 30+ year career. Being told "your position is being eliminated" when you're living close to the bone in a seriously expensive metro area can send people over the edge.

And this is where all the talk about what we can do is probabyl not going to help. I imagine the guy got laid off after 20 something years of service, was old enough to have crappy job prospects. Probably had no prior convictions, no background check would have worked. Probably had the gun for years, from the reports it was a rifle. Might have used it for hunting. Short of massive collection of all guns (which would probably result in deadly shootouts just for trying to take people's guns), nothing would have prevented this.

Limits to the type of guns allowed, background checks, can all prevent gun crime. But not this one.
posted by zabuni at 9:45 AM on September 16, 2013

I interned for a summer in the Navy Yard and the folks I used to work with are still in lockdown, but okay.

Yeah, the security is really strange-- if you walked in on the wrong side of the street to the guard booth they would tell but they'd almost never do a bag check (and there are no metal detectors.) The levels of security keep changing, which is sometimes a problem for the museum staff especially since civilians are the primary visitors.

.
posted by jetlagaddict at 9:47 AM on September 16, 2013

Map of DC violence and homicides.
posted by Mapes at 9:47 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

me: Mum, I live in Manchester, they have guns here.
mum: Yes, but they aren't supposed to!

Well. Your average person in DC isn't allowed to carry them either. This is pretty unique in the USA. Expect this to be oft cited in the blowback by pro-gun people.

As for: Does it feel like the kind of place where random shootings should be happening, or is this an out of the blue thing?

I know some older folks that wouldn't drive through SE DC. I love going to Nats games in that neighborhood. Honestly, if you asked me to tap into that dark anxatic place, I would put a terrorist attack or bombings at the top of that list, before a spree/mass shooting.

Maybe a month or so ago there was a freak lightning storm without rain for a good 20 minutes or so. Both my husband and I popped open twitter to make sure it wasn't some kind of crazy sci-fi future weapon. I live about a 3 miles directly north of the white house.
posted by fontophilic at 9:49 AM on September 16, 2013

I know someone who's a medic on a Park Police helicopter, so I was riveted as a watched them doing medevacs from the roof. Commentators didn't acknowledge this at the time, but hovering up there and lowering down a basket to extract victims while the shooter was still reported to be at large was an act of badassery worthy of a unit that performed with such heroism during the Air Florida crash. I don't know if my friend's on duty today, but whoever was up there shouldn't have to buy his/her own beer in a DC bar for quite some time.
posted by itstheclamsname at 9:50 AM on September 16, 2013 [23 favorites]

And yeah, DC is a strange place for violence. I grew up with riots in a very tempestuous neighborhood which has more property crime and fewer assaults now. The Navy Yard always felt incredibly safe inside, at least, (definitely felt like the safest pub I've ever been in). But this just feels different because this is clearly not a random shooting or theft, and there's no way to predict that.
posted by jetlagaddict at 9:50 AM on September 16, 2013

The rest of the country and the world probably can wait for more reliable news.

My wife and father have colleagues who work there, and people visit that location for work from Hawaii, San Diego, Upstate New York, Washington State, RI, Maine, Florida, CT, and, well, every damn where.

More, with three shooters, this was probably terrorism - there has been a precedent for attacking military offices and bases - and co-ordinated attacks also have a precedent.

So, yeah, this is of interest to people nationwide, both concerned parties with colleagues and relatives on-site, and authorities who may want to know of a (potential) ongoing terrorist incident.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:57 AM on September 16, 2013

Well. Your average person in DC isn't allowed to carry them either. This is pretty unique in the USA. Expect this to be oft cited in the blowback by pro-gun people.

Except that it borders a state with low support for gun control that not coincidentally happens to house the headquarters for the NRA (which is only about a dozen miles away from Navy Yard). The problem with saying that gun control is ineffective in, say, Chicago is that it's not all that difficult to go to a neighboring state with lax gun laws or easily-available illegal weapons to arm yourself. Many if not most confiscated weapons are traced to places just across the border, which in the case of Illinois is Missouri, which avoided nullification of federal law by one vote last week. This is one-step-closer-to-secession kind of shit.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:58 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Given that each of these individuals was reported as wearing some sort of uniform, I wonder if they might be security personnel of some kind.

Security personnel rarely carry long guns (although that may have been an inaccurate report)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:58 AM on September 16, 2013

I know some older folks that wouldn't drive through SE DC

SE DC isn't really SE DC any more. Hell, Anacostia is getting nicer, even. I grew up here, and the change in DC in the past 20 years has been remarkable. I barely recognize it.
posted by empath at 9:58 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Your average person in DC isn't allowed to carry them either.

The handgun ban was thrown out.
posted by empath at 9:59 AM on September 16, 2013

My group is leaving the yard now, with police escort
posted by Zonker at 9:59 AM on September 16, 2013 [47 favorites]

Once again the problem of gun free zones rears it's head. Clearly, we need to place armed guards at America's Military Bases.

Didn't we have this discussion after Fort Hood? The "gun free zones" sarcasm is more true than ironic; gun carry is more restricted on military bases than off them.

A friend of mine works at the Navy Yard (not in the same building as any of the shootings, and he's still posting "I'm okay" to Facebook, so I'm not completely nuts with worry yet), where he's naturally unarmed because of course his concealed carry license doesn't override the DC laws or base rules. I'm not sure those rules are making anyone safer. They clearly don't affect the people who want to make him less safe.
posted by roystgnr at 10:01 AM on September 16, 2013 [6 favorites]

Security personnel rarely carry long guns (although that may have been an inaccurate report)

When on sentry duty at a naval base my brother in law would carry a shotgun, I think he may have said at one point that it was because he was not yet qualified with the rifle. Of course he was actual military rather than part of a separate security arrangement.
posted by Artw at 10:02 AM on September 16, 2013

The handgun ban was thrown out.

Partially. It still isn't feasible for a civillian to have a gun, any gun, not just a handgun. You have to have a permit to posess ammo or an empty clip for pete's sake!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:02 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

I know some older folks that wouldn't drive through SE DC

SE DC isn't really SE DC any more. Hell, Anacostia is getting nicer, even. I grew up here, and the change in DC in the past 20 years has been remarkable. I barely recognize it.
posted by empath at 9:58 AM on September 16 [+] [!]---

---

I barely recognize it either. I've been in DC since 1976 and on the Hill since 1979.

Zonker, I am glad you are leaving. I have a friend from my apartment building who works there. I don't know in what building.
posted by jgirl at 10:07 AM on September 16, 2013

Also, If this is an organized terrorist operation, gun control doesn't really apply. Smuggling in weapons would be a minor complication, at best.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:07 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Slap*Happy, have you seen anything that's pointing at an organized terrorist operation? Because this is the second time you've brought it up, but it's not something I've seen anywhere else--everything else seems to be assuming disgruntled dudes, not terrorist cell.
posted by MeghanC at 10:10 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

Security personnel rarely carry long guns (although that may have been an inaccurate report)

You don't work on Capitol Hill. I see shotguns and assault rifles pretty much every day.
posted by MrMoonPie at 10:12 AM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

have you seen anything that's pointing at an organized terrorist operation?

Just speculating here, but if there are three guys in uniforms, two of which are still at large, that gained access to a military installation on Capitol Hill, that's certainly organized, but also has to be organized for a reason.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:13 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

Man, I was just down in that area yesterday evening visiting friends. They are ok. Glad you are too, Zonker.
posted by solotoro at 10:14 AM on September 16, 2013

You don't work on Capitol Hill. I see shotguns and assault rifles pretty much every day.

This is DC, I see a motorcade with all sorts of weaponry, some of it quite large, go by every single day.

Incidentally, I hear semi-automatic gunfire several times every single week.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:15 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Security personnel rarely carry long guns (although that may have been an inaccurate report)

It may have been inaccurate, though as Artw noted, it also might have been a shotgun. Police often have access to shotgun in their vehicles at least. Who knows.

That said, the WaPo blog just posted a video of D.C. police chief Cathy Lanier, whom it cited as saying "there are potentially two other suspects at large" (quote is of the WaPo's paraphrase), so at the very least they would seem not to have IDed the others as officers or security.

Zonker, I'm happy you're leaving safely. Take care of yourself.
posted by Gelatin at 10:16 AM on September 16, 2013

You don't work on Capitol Hill. I see shotguns and assault rifles pretty much every day.

On security? Or LEO/Military?

Since the uniforms weren't identified I'm assuming we're talking about the former.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:16 AM on September 16, 2013

It still isn't feasible for a civillian to have a gun, any gun, not just a handgun.

Depends on what you mean by have, I guess. To carry it around? No. To own? I live in DC and own a fully-licensed, legally-purchased shotgun, bought while I was a resident, registered with the DC police.
posted by MrMoonPie at 10:17 AM on September 16, 2013

I'm not sure those rules are making anyone safer. They clearly don't affect the people who want to make him less safe.

This is kind of like if some town had a "no drunk driving street", but the rest of the state you could drive drunk as long as you passed a background check. It wouldn't be very effective, but the fault wouldn't lie with the prohibition of drunk driving.
posted by kiltedtaco at 10:20 AM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

Just speculating here, but if there are three guys in uniforms, two of which are still at large, that gained access to a military installation on Capitol Hill, that's certainly organized, but also has to be organized for a reason.

The Yard is close to but isn't on the Hill. There are tons of uniformed sailors and Marines on the base all the time, some of them (read: security gates) are carrying assault rifles.

For all that we know right now this could just be some guy that found out he wasn't getting an SES placement and said enough.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 10:22 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

The 10th Regiment of Foot: "a military installation on Capitol Hill"

The Navy Yard is a military base on the bank of the Anacostia River. It is not located on Capitol Hill, and has no relation to the Capitol Complex. It's also separated from Anacostia (and the parts of SE DC that still have recurring crime issues) by a river and a freeway.

Even though there's a big wall surrounding the base, it's not completely surprising that somebody was able to bring a weapon into the Navy Yard. However, it is (seemingly) surprising that the shooters managed to gain access to the buildings within the base.
posted by schmod at 10:22 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

The two additional guys are "potential" shooters.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:23 AM on September 16, 2013

OK, yes it's not impossible, just not feasible. There is one licened FFL in the District and that licencee ONLY works with law enforcement. So unless you are a cop or willing to keep you guns elsewhere, there is no way to legally transfer in a handgun. Rifles and shotguns have to be taken downtown in working but disabled condition to be registered, then to bring in ammo or clips legally, they too must be registered and must be for a previously registered gun. It's not impossible, no, but very difficult.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:23 AM on September 16, 2013

Reddit live updates thread
posted by Jacqueline at 10:25 AM on September 16, 2013

I worked at WNY for 6 years. Got a real shock seeing the photo of the shooting victim in front of the CVS on New Jersey & M. I used to shop in that store almost daily.
posted by smoothvirus at 10:25 AM on September 16, 2013

Schmod, yes, the Navy Yard is not part of the Capitol complex, it is in the Capitol Hill neighborhood. Here's the Capitol Hill wiki page.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:28 AM on September 16, 2013

Has anyone heard if/when the airport will be letting flights out? My sister was supposed to catch a flight from DC to New York and her flight has been delayed for hours. And of course now her phone battery is dead so she can't update me.
posted by silverstatue at 10:29 AM on September 16, 2013

it is in the Capitol Hill neighborhood.

I would argue that 695 forms the lower boundary of the Capitol Hill neighborhood. Navy Yard is in Near Southeast (which is sometimes just called "Navy Yard").
posted by troika at 10:31 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

The Navy Yard is its own neighborhood, it's not really part of capitol hill
posted by empath at 10:33 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Silverstatue... flights resumed around 10:30
posted by matty at 10:38 AM on September 16, 2013

From the WaPo's main story:

a program management analyst who is a civilian with the U.S. Navy, told the Associated Press that a gunman was shooting from a fourth floor overlook in the hallway outside his office. He said the gunman was aiming at people in the building’s first floor cafeteria.

Sweet Jesus.
posted by Gelatin at 10:38 AM on September 16, 2013

I am horrified that I no longer feel shocked or surprised at this kind of news. It's the new normal. God help us.
posted by Wordwoman at 10:38 AM on September 16, 2013 [7 favorites]

Reddit live updates thread

After last time?
posted by Artw at 10:38 AM on September 16, 2013 [9 favorites]

I dunno, I used to jog around the yard from my place on 6th Street. It's a thin line, though a real one.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:39 AM on September 16, 2013

What else could it be? Seriously. I guess "gun nut" and "whack job" are not the worlds most precise terms but essentially, how could it be anything else?

A lot of things - I don't know if you all remember the Maj. Hasan shooting? Shootings on military bases that are not the work of military personnel are staggeringly rare - I don't know if I can recall of one ever happening.
posted by corb at 10:39 AM on September 16, 2013

Zonker, I'm glad you're leaving safely. Take care.

I hope everyone's loved ones are okay.
posted by wiskunde at 10:41 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

You're comparing a city with a country, and a city with states. Those aren't valid comparisons.

I sort of agree with you which is why I initially compared the country with the country (US 4x UK per capital murder rate).

However it can be useful to consider sub sections of an area in this sort of "do I feel safe" comparison. I know I for example never really feel unsafe anywhere in Canada but then again we don't have anywhere where the per capita murder rate comes even close to DCs rate. The DC rate might give me pause were I to visit. Even if there are "safe" and "unsafe" neighbourhoods as a tourist I don't know where those boundaries lie. So it's valid for me to compare the safety of anywhere in Canada with say the relatively small area encapsulated by DC.
posted by Mitheral at 10:45 AM on September 16, 2013

The Navy Yard also has a smallish but very interesting museum I've visited several times. It's strange to think of this happening in a place I actually know. Stay safe, DC.
posted by orrnyereg at 10:45 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Just speculating here, but if there are three guys in uniforms, two of which are still at large, that gained access to a military installation on Capitol Hill, that's certainly organized, but also has to be organized for a reason.

Yeah, they're saying he was disgruntled former Navy, but I can't imagine anyone coming to his buddies and saying, "Hey, they fired me, come shoot up a military complex."

Obama is speaking now.

"I've been briefed by my team...still don't know all the facts...several people have been shot and some have been killed. We are confronting yet another mass shooting. Today it happened on a military..in our nation's capital...men and women who were going to work doing their job protecting all of us. They are patriots. They know the dangers of serving abroad, but today they face the unimaginable violence that they wouldn't have expected here at home. We owe a debt of gratitude...doctors...federal and global authorities are working together. ...whoever carried out this cowardly act is held responsible. ...thank them for their service, we stand with the families of those who have been harmed. ...we will honor their service to the nation they helped to make great...do everything that we can...in recent weeks much of our attention has been focused on events in Syria.."
posted by corb at 10:47 AM on September 16, 2013 [7 favorites]

Ellipses are where I couldn't type fast enough to get transcript.
posted by corb at 10:47 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

A few minutes ago CNN was interviewing a naval officer live on scene:

Q: "Is this a secure building?"

A: "Not today."
posted by ceribus peribus at 10:48 AM on September 16, 2013 [9 favorites]

Oh sorry, or maybe not live, judging by the navy twitter feed. Anyway, hope the semi-transcript is useful.
posted by corb at 10:48 AM on September 16, 2013

s a tourist I don't know where those boundaries lie.

All the major tourist areas in DC are extremely safe. The Mall, Monuments, Museums, crazy fine. Like you won't wander into anything terrible if you get off Smithsonian stop on the Metro.

I mean unless there's a random shooting but that's not really what the 'murder rate' is reflecting.

If you want to go out for good Ethiopian food (which you should!) you might want to double check the neighborhood, but you should do that any place where people actually live and interact with the neighborhood (crowded? Industrial? Desolate? family oriented or single people?).
posted by sweetkid at 10:49 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

U Street/Cardozo is a perplexing area. I have no clarity about how it stacks up these days.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:50 AM on September 16, 2013

Even if there are "safe" and "unsafe" neighbourhoods as a tourist I don't know where those boundaries lie. So it's valid for me to compare the safety of anywhere in Canada with say the relatively small area encapsulated by DC.

Discounting the comparison of an entire country with the center of a metropolitan area: any neighborhood you would be seeing as a tourist is pretty well removed from the neighborhoods most outsiders would consider unsafe.
posted by psoas at 10:51 AM on September 16, 2013

U Street is very different than it was in the early 2000s.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:51 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

U Street is very different than it was in the early 2000s.
yes.

The neighborhood around the Navy Yard is vastly different from what it was like 10 years ago as well.
posted by smoothvirus at 10:53 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

U Street/Cardozo is a perplexing area. I have no clarity about how it stacks up these days.

Yeah, this surprises me. I've lived in the U St area since 2004 and more than anything, people are complaining about the glut of condo developments and upscale bars/bistros.
posted by psoas at 10:53 AM on September 16, 2013

U Street/Cardozo is a perplexing area.

White people overload.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 10:54 AM on September 16, 2013

Also, ABC news is broadcasting as a followup video a video of when the shooter hit the Family Research Council, without any disclaimers that it is not breaking news. WTF.
posted by corb at 10:54 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Man where are the neighborhoods where I'll get shot nowadays? Sounds like all the good old places to get murdered have gone and cleaned up their act...
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:54 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

All the major tourist areas in DC are extremely safe.

Sure, you won't get murdered, robbed maybe, but murdered no.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:55 AM on September 16, 2013

Man where are the neighborhoods where I'll get shot nowadays? Sounds like all the good old places to get murdered have gone and cleaned up their act...

Crime Reports has the answer. (Hint: many places.)
posted by Going To Maine at 10:59 AM on September 16, 2013

I've lived in the U St area since 2004 and more than anything, people are complaining about the glut of condo developments and upscale bars/bistros.

every time I go home I get a little weirded out about the possibility for getting sake by the glass and $25 dollar pasta in Columbia Heights, not going to lie...

...but there's still crime, it's just shifted, I think, away from gang violence to (fewer?) drug busts and more theft/car damage. There was a guy who used to follow women home from the store and then rob them with a gun because he thought they were likely to have money if they'd been shopping. (Not the smartest robber, but he robbed a next door neighbor while I was home, so pretty brazen.) The worst problem I've ever had was someone stealing our tricycles off the back porch, so your crime experiences in the city may vary dramatically.
posted by jetlagaddict at 10:59 AM on September 16, 2013

What else could it be? Seriously. I guess "gun nut" and "whack job" are not the worlds most precise terms but essentially, how could it be anything else?

Ex-military. Train them to kill, force them to kill, then throw them back into society. It's a wonder things like this don't happen every day, frankly.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:01 AM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

Man where are the neighborhoods where I'll get shot nowadays

North east, and the parts of the city bordering PG county, in general. My girlfriend volunteered to help clean up a housing project near the Maryland border, and it basically looked like something out of The Wire. The less dense areas seem the worst off, really.
posted by empath at 11:03 AM on September 16, 2013

...but there's still crime, it's just shifted, I think, away from gang violence to (fewer?) drug busts and more theft/car damage. There was a guy who used to follow women home from the store and then rob them with a gun because he thought they were likely to have money if they'd been shopping. (Not the smartest robber, but he robbed a next door neighbor while I was home, so pretty brazen.) The worst problem I've ever had was someone stealing our tricycles off the back porch, so your crime experiences in the city may vary dramatically.

I had a friend near H street who complained of similar problems. His grill was stolen twice (hoisted over a fence, at that!), but every time I went to his house to hang out and then hit the bars I never really felt in danger at all. Still, he ended up moving to a slightly more developed part of Capital Hill because he was sick of the minor property crime.
posted by codacorolla at 11:05 AM on September 16, 2013

I love to talk about socioeconomic trends in DC. Possibly more than anybody else here.

However, this is a really inappropriate place to have that conversation.

Sys Rq: "Ex-military. Train them to kill, force them to kill, then throw them back into society. It's a wonder things like this don't happen every day, frankly."

This one too. Let's wait until we have the facts.
posted by schmod at 11:07 AM on September 16, 2013 [10 favorites]

I'm going with Sys Rq on this one; as more ex-military find themselves adrift in a seriously flawed return from combat, with almost no support in some cases, I'm surprised we don't see more violence. [edit: Though I don't know that is what has happened here, and I'm not making any effort towards speculating as such...]

And in these cases, I don't actually know that I would necessarily use the term gun nut. It's a fair bet, but it could just as easily be someone with training using the most expeditious tool to accomplish what they want (e.g. hurting a lot of people), there could very well be almost none of the fetishizing we might expect from someone who didn't work with them day to day.

Or it could just be an ex-mil gun nut. That happens too.
posted by quin at 11:07 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

North east

Not these days, the worst that will happen in NE is you'll get splattered with hummus flung by the kid of some middle executive from an environmental NGO and her partner the Department of Bureaucracy wonk.

Oh, and tell your girlfriend thanks for picking up trash around here!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:08 AM on September 16, 2013

Summing up what we know: At least 7 people are dead, maybe more. One person who shot people is dead, we either know his identity or we do not. He is either black or white or something else. The chief of police said they are looking for two more shooters, one black and one white. We are trying our best to insert some more indeterminacy into the situation, Don DeLillo could you please report to an ambiguously-colored phone?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:09 AM on September 16, 2013 [12 favorites]

Now the DC police chief is saying at least 12 are dead? I don't understand, if the gunman has been dead for hours, how this situation could keep changing?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:09 AM on September 16, 2013

I also can't help but wonder about the timing. Major Hasan was just sentenced to death two weeks ago for performing the shooting at Fort Hood.
posted by corb at 11:09 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Now the DC police chief is saying at least 12 are dead? I don't understand, if the gunman has been dead for hours, how this situation could keep changing?

They might be finding new bodies or new areas visited by the shooter, people die hours after being shot, etc.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:14 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

Possibly the situation is not changing, just the understanding of the facts.
posted by double bubble at 11:14 AM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

I don't understand, if the gunman has been dead for hours, how this situation could keep changing?

I suspect it's because there are still suspected shooters on the run, so they haven't been able to fully check every building for casualties. Some people may also have been reported missing but are actually safe but haven't been checked in, and so on. I feel like the full reports for Newtown* weren't released until six hours or so had passed and a lot of misinformation happened before that.

*also wow do I hate that we can casually identify mass shootings by location, and not even by year
posted by jetlagaddict at 11:14 AM on September 16, 2013

It's only a matter of time until you have to identify them by location and year.

I couldn't move away from DC quickly enough, but it's a fine city and I am sorry for this sort of chaos. Our national "discussion" on gun crime/mass shootings feels more like arguing about symptoms while remaining totally ignorant of their causes than usual in the context of these endless tragedies.
posted by feloniousmonk at 11:18 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

I have a family member working in the Navy Yard today. My uncle's twin brother. I'm worried about him, but fortunately he has FB access and has been updating -- his building is in lockdown (not sure which building). He's feeling safe, and in good spirits -- talking about how he's glad he brought lunch (the Marines he's with are not so fortunate) and how the vending machine has been fully raided. It's good that he feels safe enough to be more worried about grumpy Marines.
posted by DoubleLune at 11:20 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

I also can't help but wonder about the timing.

Pick any random date and there's something that someone could be outraged over.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:22 AM on September 16, 2013 [6 favorites]

Tonight's Nationals game is still on, says WaPo.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:26 AM on September 16, 2013

"Quick, blame Grand Theft Auto 5!

CBS will really try anything to promote the new season of NCIS.
posted by klangklangston at 11:27 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

Nats game is still on? Seems mildly inappropriate, and dangerous, unless there really was only one shooter.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:27 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

I have a family member working in the Navy Yard today. My uncle's twin brother.

For a minute, I wondered if we were related. My cousin, who is also a twin, works in that building, but I've just heard he's home now. I hope your family is safely home soon too.
posted by gladly at 11:28 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

The uniforms I think make it more likely that there was someone else at least there. The way they describe the uniforms makes me wonder about them, too. What is a "tan military uniform with short sleeves", anyway? DCUs with the sleeves rolled up maybe? Just a brown t-shirt? It says so little.
posted by corb at 11:31 AM on September 16, 2013

What is a "tan military uniform with short sleeves", anyway?

To non-military me (who grew up near Great Lakes and has ROTC kids as students), a Navy officer uniform.
posted by hoyland at 11:33 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

What is a "tan military uniform with short sleeves", anyway?

Could be a navy uniform.
posted by ceribus peribus at 11:34 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Navy Service Khakis.
posted by matty at 11:34 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Despite three of us going 'Navy' in quick succession, I think corb's point may have been that tan and short sleeves may not actually be specific (I have no idea if it is).
posted by hoyland at 11:36 AM on September 16, 2013

Right now, DC tv news is reporting that the "other shooters" may in fact have been responding to the shooting. It's trying to be determined.
posted by mercredi at 11:36 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Ex-military. Train them to kill, force them to kill, then throw them back into society. It's a wonder things like this don't happen every day, frankly.

The military suicides were closing in on one a day last year.

This one too. Let's wait until we have the facts.

Indeed.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:37 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

NBC News claiming the shooter is 34 years old and from Texas. No other descriptions of him.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:39 AM on September 16, 2013

NBC 4 in DC just reported that the shooter was Aaron Alexis from Fort Worth TX and he used a stolen ID to get in.
posted by smoothvirus at 11:50 AM on September 16, 2013

Despite three of us going 'Navy' in quick succession, I think corb's point may have been that tan and short sleeves may not actually be specific (I have no idea if it is).

My thought was actually that people who worked at the Navy yard would recognize a Navy uniform on sight. But MSNBC is reporting that the man in the tan uniform is no longer being considered a person of interest.
posted by corb at 11:50 AM on September 16, 2013

MSNBC is reporting that the man in the tan uniform is no longer being considered a person of interest.

And the WaPo blog says the same, quoting a tweet from DC's deputy mayor.
posted by Gelatin at 11:54 AM on September 16, 2013

Does that narrow it down to 2, or to 1 suspect? As people were wisely saying upthread, this seems most likely to be a lone shooter, now deceased, plus confused reports of various armed navy folks running around shooting at the shooter.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:55 AM on September 16, 2013

From that NBC link: "People with proper badges are allowed to enter Navy Yard without having their bags checked, Williams reported."

I'm guessing that policy may be changing.
posted by wildcrdj at 11:55 AM on September 16, 2013

I'm guessing that policy may be changing.

If they check cars too it's going to take you an hour to get in to the Yard.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 11:56 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

I'm guessing that policy may be changing.

When I worked there all you needed to do to get on base was flash your CAC. There were some individual buildings on base where the security was much higher than that however.
posted by smoothvirus at 11:57 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Does that narrow it down to 2, or to 1 suspect?

2 at this point. Or, one dead confirmed shooter and an at large "connected" person (the black guy in the OD BDU-type clothes).
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:57 AM on September 16, 2013

Related Posts
Why isn't New Orleans Mother's Day parade shooting... May 16, 2013
Welcome to the world where Sandy Hook didn’t... January 16, 2013
Many dead in Connecticut primary school shooting December 14, 2012
Shooting at Batman Premiere outside Denver July 20, 2012
Lone nut or something worse? January 8, 2011

Most of the time I find the "Related Posts" thingy funny. Not so much today.
posted by Big_B at 11:59 AM on September 16, 2013 [10 favorites]

Does that narrow it down to 2, or to 1 suspect?

The WaPo's main story quoted DC's police chief as identifying two other persons of interest along with one shooter who was among the 12 dead:

Lanier described one of the possible suspects as a white male in his 40s, wearing what appeared to be tan military clothing, “consistent with a Navy uniform,” and a beret. She said police also are looking for a black man in his 40s with gray sideburns, wearing an olive-drab military-style uniform.

“We have multiple pieces of information that would suggest” that the two suspects are armed. “We have reason to believe that they are involved in some way.”

According to the sources cited upthread, the man in the khaki uniform has now been ruled out as a suspect, which would leave the man in the olive-drab uniform yet to be accounted for. It's possible that "involved in some way" may equate to "responding to the shooting," in an official capacity or otherwise.
posted by Gelatin at 12:00 PM on September 16, 2013

If they check cars too it's going to take you an hour to get in to the Yard.

They can contract it out to the TSA and then it will become an impregnable fortress. An empty impregnable fortress but still.
posted by griphus at 12:01 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

If they check cars too it's going to take you an hour to get in to the Yard.

Yeah, I mean I'm sure that kind of thing is why there was such a policy. But if its really supposed to be a "heavily secured" building as described in that article, it seems like a security system that a stolen ID card (which is a pretty trivial bar to clear) can defeat is not very good.
posted by wildcrdj at 12:02 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

A friend of a friend on facebook posted a pretty extensive rant wherein he says that he and another friend (also on facebook, he highlighted his page) have been telling the Navy Yard for months and months they needed to beef up security, and that it was only a matter of time before something like this happened.

Apparently his post is public so here it is fwiw.

Excerpt: Two Army Intelligence guys, both BZ Str recipients, 1 Purple Heart, one army SF, one Sniper, Masters Degree and the Chief and Deputy Chief of Security for an Echelon II Command on the Navy Yard. We said this would happen until we were blue in the face and then forced out just 5 months ago. This could have been prevented, we could have been heard more and we could have been asked how to fix it instead we got "it would be a burden on the workforce"
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:11 PM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

Pete Williams on NBC just reported that it is in fact just one gunman, the other guys were not involved. They have the videos. Guy had a shotgun, but at least some other weapons, probably taken from guards. Also Nats game is cancelled.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:11 PM on September 16, 2013

If they check cars too it's going to take you an hour to get in to the Yard.

Logistically speaking it's possible to separate the parking lots from the buildings. Flash a badge to get into the lot, but then security at the door to get into the building.

Of course, if the military actually wanted to take this initiate I'd imagine they'd have done it already, you know, across the board instead of playing whack-a-mole post-incidentally.
posted by Blue_Villain at 12:11 PM on September 16, 2013

Virtually every federal building in DC requires you to step through a metal detector, and scan your bags in an X-Ray machine before entering.

It's been this way since long before 9/11, and it's really not terribly intrusive. I'm more than a little shocked that the military does not employ the same procedures in its civilian office buildings.

Several military bases that I've visited as a civilian (including the Navy Yard) have asked me to pop my trunk, looked in my back seat, and used mirrors to look underneath my car. It's not 100% thorough, but it can be done very quickly with the proper staff.

I always knew that the Navy Yard itself wasn't a 100% secure facility. Like many bases, it contains facilities that are (deliberately) accessible to the public without a military ID. I'm kind of surprised that the individual buildings within didn't have way more security than the parking garage....

playertobenamedlater: "If they check cars too it's going to take you an hour to get in to the Yard."

Maybe this can be the impetus that the military finally needs to make some of its employees use the public transportation system that was built almost entirely for their benefit?
posted by schmod at 12:12 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Local news stream on NBC isn't bad in terms of news blathering.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:12 PM on September 16, 2013

But if its really supposed to be a "heavily secured" building as described in that article

The main entrance, which I walk by multiple times a week and very frequently has a line of cars waiting to get in,* looks like the gate to a medieval castle: it's a hole in an otherwise-uninterrupted brick wall, with a guard station and heavy gates. Pedestrians can be processed more quickly, but slowing down the vehicular traffic coming in will definitley back up traffic and poses an overall danger to connectivity and passersby.

*directly from a street--featured all day now on every news channel--that has three lanes of traffic moving each way and on which multiple pedestrians have been struck in recent years because of the speed of traffic relative to the frequency of people crossing; this is a somewhat dense, semi-residential urban neighborhood
posted by psoas at 12:15 PM on September 16, 2013

A chilling factoid from the WaPo blog:

With top D.C. officials confirming 12 dead, the Navy Yard shooting represents the worst loss of life in a single incident within the District of Columbia since an airliner plunged into the Potomac River in 1982, killing 78.

I hope that as the day goes on comparable stories of heroism emerge as well. No doubt they will.
posted by Gelatin at 12:17 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Pete Williams on NBC just reported that it is in fact just one gunman

Post and NBC still saying that they have NOT ruled out a second shooter.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:18 PM on September 16, 2013

Virtually every federal building in DC requires you to step through a metal detector, and scan your bags in an X-Ray machine before entering.

This is not true if you have a badge. I work for a Federal Agency 3 blocks from the White House and I don't have to go through a metal detector at all, only visitors to the building. I just flash my badge and then scan in with it.
posted by whitetigereyes at 12:18 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

@schmod - The Metro is one super long walk from the Yard gate, much less some of the offices. If you think you can convince some of the folks that drive from Delmarva and Stafford and Frederick to take public transportation to get to the Yard you should consider a career in sales.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 12:18 PM on September 16, 2013

Maybe this can be the impetus that the military finally needs to make some of its employees use the public transportation system that was built almost entirely for their benefit?

Huh? Let's not forget that the Pentagon is only a couple of miles away - and the vast majority of it's 24,000+ inhabitants arrive via mass transit every day.
posted by matty at 12:20 PM on September 16, 2013

Russian Official Alexey Pushkov Tweets Navy Yard Shooting ‘Confirmation of American Exceptionalism’

posted by corb at 12:21 PM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

From Twitter:
Tonight's Nats game has been postponed.

US Senate on lockdown.

US Navy issues order to account for all Navy uniformed personnel in DC metro

All schools being dismissed on time

Trash collections that were missed today will be performed early tomorrow.
posted by schmod at 12:21 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

The only Federal Building I know of that requires employees with a badge to go through a metal detector every day is the White House.
posted by smoothvirus at 12:21 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

matty: "Huh? Let's not forget that the Pentagon is only a couple of miles away - and the vast majority of it's 24,000+ inhabitants arrive via mass transit every day."

Have you seen the size of that parking lot?

There are a few federal agencies that are absolutely awful at persuading their employees to take public transportation (mainly by providing heavily subsidized parking to their employees). Congress and the Military are (by far) the two biggest offenders, putting huge surface lots on some of the most useful/valuable land in town.
posted by schmod at 12:23 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

My commute is long enough without giving the gate guards here an excuse to stop and search every blessed car. Which we've already assumed they will be doing tomorrow in response.

Several military bases that I've visited as a civilian (including the Navy Yard) have asked me to pop my trunk, looked in my back seat, and used mirrors to look underneath my car. It's not 100% thorough, but it can be done very quickly with the proper staff.

This is absolutely not feasible; to search every car even in this cursory manner would take hours, and I work on a comparatively small post. If I forget my card and have to go through the chump line (the line which anyone without a military ID has to go through, and which has you get out of the car, open all doors, the hood, the trunk, the glove compartment and the center console), it takes about an extra 15-30 minutes, depending on the line. If the hundreds and HUNDREDS of cars that drive on post every day had to do this, every day, every time, it would just not work. It would back traffic up into town, over a bridge, and back into other towns for miles and for hours.

Maybe this can be the impetus that the military finally needs to make some of its employees use the public transportation system that was built almost entirely for their benefit?

That may work for DC, but there is no public transportation here, and at the vast majority of military bases around the country. I think it might be a bit early to start speculating on the security measures that might/should be put in place in response to this act.

Everyone affected, glad you are safe or stay safe if you've not been given the all clear. Internet hugs from the middle of the country headed your way.
posted by jennaratrix at 12:25 PM on September 16, 2013

Russian Official Alexey Pushkov Tweets Navy Yard Shooting ‘Confirmation of American Exceptionalism’

That tweet is confimation of Pushkov's class.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:27 PM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

NBC 4 in DC just reported that the shooter was Aaron Alexis from Fort Worth TX and he used a stolen ID to get in.

Wonder if I ever met him. It's a small enough town that someone I know might know him, regardless. Christ.
posted by emjaybee at 12:28 PM on September 16, 2013

Aaron Alexis from Fort Worth TX

This may be the guy. Arrested in 2010 for discharging a firearm in a populated area. NBC reports he had recently begun working as a contractor at the Navy Yard.

(NBC has been having news diarrhea today, so take these reports with a grain of salt)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:28 PM on September 16, 2013

Parking at the Navy Yard was free when I drove there but most of my time there I rode my bicycle to work from my house in Arlington. When I drove I had to park at a satellite lot by the Coast Guard headquarters and take a shuttle bus to the office. There was no Metro stop in my neighborhood in south Arlington. Parking on the base itself was pretty much reserved for workers who were handicapped or government execs. No contractors allowed.
posted by smoothvirus at 12:28 PM on September 16, 2013

Russian Official Alexey Pushkov Tweets Navy Yard Shooting ‘Confirmation of American Exceptionalism’

The new cold war sucks.
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:29 PM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

Road Closures that will likely extend into the evening commute. Note that I-695 and the 11th St Bridge are closed to all traffic. If you ride a kayak to work, the river's closed too.
posted by schmod at 12:29 PM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

This may be the guy.

A. I hope not. The racist comments are starting already on twitter.
B. I'm glad nobody (not even the Daily News) has posted that mugshot yet.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:32 PM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

roomthreeseventeen: "I don't understand why they grounded planes.

So the gunmen don't try to get on one?"

And, the infamous "golden bb".
posted by Samizdata at 12:32 PM on September 16, 2013

This may be the guy. Arrested in 2010 for discharging a firearm in a populated area. NBC reports he had recently begun working as a contractor at the Navy Yard.

Yeah, I found that with a google search but didn't want to post it myself because yeah.
posted by corb at 12:33 PM on September 16, 2013

Have you seen the size of that parking lot?

Yes, I've seen it. I work in it. I take mass transit to it every day. North and South parking are massive, but don't nearly equate to the number of people working inside.

And the military actually does a GREAT job of encouraging mass transit in the DC Metro area. Virtually every military member and civilian employees that work at federal facilities receive a transit credit (although it was recently reduced) if they choose to take metro or the bus. It doesn't cover the full cost of a monthly commute, but it certainly helps and is a great incentive.
posted by matty at 12:33 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

If you ride a kayak to work, the river's closed too.

With the water quality down there, they may be doing you a favor with this one.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:34 PM on September 16, 2013

Aaron Alexis from Fort Worth TX

Can't possibly be. We all know that gunmen and serial killers always have three names.

/sigh (for those concerned, this is a glib comment on the state of the media, not an actual joke, sorry)
posted by Blue_Villain at 12:34 PM on September 16, 2013

smoothvirus, Congressional staffers, but not the members, have to go through metal detectors and have their bags x-rayed.
posted by wintermind at 12:34 PM on September 16, 2013

>Russian Official Alexey Pushkov Tweets Navy Yard Shooting ‘Confirmation of American Exceptionalism’

The new cold war sucks.

The way I read that Tweet, he seemed to be saying that "if America is so great, why does this stuff happen all the time there and no one does anything about it?"

Anyway, pretty tasteless, and by the way don't feed the troll.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:34 PM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Library of Congress workers have to go through metal detectors and have their bags x-rayed. The only exception I've seen to that are Capitol Police officers and the Librarian of Congress himself, though I suppose a Member of Congress would be waved through.
posted by MrMoonPie at 12:36 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Gotcha.. I have never worked on the Hill so wouldn't know about that one. Kind of surprised about having to do that at LOC.
posted by smoothvirus at 12:38 PM on September 16, 2013

The 10th Regiment of Foot: "With the water quality down there, they may be doing you a favor with this one."

It's not great, but also not nearly as bad as you think. Pollutants in the river are comprised mainly of whatever gets picked up in the DC/MD watershed's stormwater runoff (plus the occasional sewer outflow).

This might be bad, but the soil underneath the Navy Yard remains much, much worse than anything you'll find in the river. Years of shipbuilding, weapons manufacturing, and a nearby coal gasification plant did quite a number on the soil there...

I used to row on the Anacostia almost every day, so I know a thing or two about this.
posted by schmod at 12:39 PM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

... I hate that we can casually identify mass shootings by location, and not even by year

Onion: Location Of Newest Mass Shooting Revealed
posted by ceribus peribus at 12:41 PM on September 16, 2013 [6 favorites]

smoothvirus: "Gotcha.. I have never worked on the Hill so wouldn't know about that one. Kind of surprised about having to do that at LOC."

Hm. I guess my experience has been biased, because ALL of the DC federal buildings that I visit have strong access controls on them. Even a number of newer GSA buildings require metal detectors.
posted by schmod at 12:41 PM on September 16, 2013

Can't we just wait to find out who it is

Many sources (Wapo included) have confirmed that is the guys name and age and place of origin. No other details are confirmed, especially not his mugshot. I can confirm many bad people are tweeting things about that mugshot though.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:42 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

ughhh. Like early media reports about how it is have never been wrong before. Oh these Twitter heroes.
posted by sweetkid at 12:43 PM on September 16, 2013

Heck, the tiny museum I worked for, in the vicinity of the White House, does metal detectors and bag checks. Also the building nearby where I used to go for sandwiches, before they stopped letting anybody who wasn't a worker at that building use their cafe.
posted by PussKillian at 12:45 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

This blog is claiming the AP is saying he was recently (2010) evicted from a gated community in Forth Worth, TX. Can anyone confirm this is actually from the AP?

Re the mugshot, the age would line up - if he was 31 in 2010, for him to be 34 in 2013.
posted by corb at 12:45 PM on September 16, 2013

His mugshot is on channel 4 in DC as I am typing this. There is a different image, clearly of the same person, on google image search as well.
posted by smoothvirus at 12:45 PM on September 16, 2013

If you want to talk about what is and is not a good way to engage with the thread, there's the contact form and there's Metatalk, but do not complain in-thread about having boldface rants about the GOP nixed from a thread about a still-developing situation.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:46 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Oh god finding where he lived and everything already - so creepy.

If I lived in that complex I'd be terrified right now.
posted by sweetkid at 12:50 PM on September 16, 2013

Yeah, it looks like NBC is confirming -or at least, some of its people are tweeting - that Alexis was charged for negligent discharge for firing through the ceiling, he claimed it was a "cleaning accident".
posted by corb at 12:51 PM on September 16, 2013

Here's what I don't understand yet. Did someone get shot at the New Jersey side of the Metro station? I have seen photos of a shooting victim lying on the sidewalk right in front of the CVS at that location. Was the victim taken there from inside the base? That location is not on the base and is in fact across the street from DOT headquarters which is 3-4 blocks down M street from the main entrance to Navy Yard.
posted by smoothvirus at 12:52 PM on September 16, 2013

smoothvirus: "Here's what I don't understand yet. Did someone get shot at the New Jersey side of the Metro station?"

playertobenamedlater: "That person was dropped off by MPD. Here's an eyewitness account."

This detail is still a bit odd and fuzzy, but it doesn't appear that this particular victim was actually shot at that location...
posted by schmod at 12:55 PM on September 16, 2013

I know it's supposed to be too soon to bring this up, but I'm particularly struck by the fact that my horror at these events is now compounded by the certain knowledge that no matter how grisly, how nightmarish this incident turns out to be, absolutely nothing will change, and it will happen again. And again.

posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:20 AM on September 16 [73 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]

Look, we've all just agreed this is the appropriate sacrifice for having zero to non-existent gun laws and mental health care in this country. This is how it's supposed to work, for freedom.
posted by The Whelk at 7:22 AM on September 16 [56 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]

That pretty much sums up my feelings.
posted by Davenhill at 12:56 PM on September 16, 2013 [6 favorites]

thanks schmod. That photo shocked me. I have stood on that exact spot hundreds, maybe thousands of times. I am about as familiar with that location as I am with my own yard. I used to stop by the CVS there pretty much daily. Right around the corner on the backside of the building is the Five Guys where Obama stopped for burgers in 2009.
posted by smoothvirus at 12:59 PM on September 16, 2013

Well at least some decent policy changes are coming out of this tragedy.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:06 PM on September 16, 2013 [8 favorites]

Here's what I don't understand yet. Did someone get shot at the New Jersey side of the Metro station? I have seen photos of a shooting victim lying on the sidewalk right in front of the CVS at that location.

According to a commenter on DCist, that was a heart attack victim.
posted by wensink at 1:07 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Navy base in Newport, RI has all gates except one closed, and that's only for outbound traffic; armed MP's and security contractors everywhere inside and outside the gates at all Navy facilities. This is just a precaution and a reaction to the events in DC.
posted by Slap*Happy at 1:10 PM on September 16, 2013

Reddit admins ban let's-crowdsleuth-the-shooters subreddit

go conde naste
posted by KokuRyu at 1:16 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Russian Official Alexey Pushkov Tweets Navy Yard Shooting ‘Confirmation of American Exceptionalism’

The new cold war sucks.

And, just like the first one, an opportunity for Russian and US officials to show off their deep ignorance of one another's countries and their own.
posted by ryanshepard at 1:25 PM on September 16, 2013

Reddit admins ban let's-crowdsleuth-the-shooters subreddit

oh yay. that's a tiny bit of good news.
posted by sweetkid at 1:26 PM on September 16, 2013

Per DCist twitter: "One person died at a hospital, bringing total number of Navy Yard shooting fatalities to 13." (Including the gunman.)
posted by inigo2 at 1:26 PM on September 16, 2013

They should really stop lying about how secure the Navy Yard is.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 1:27 PM on September 16, 2013

Confusing press conference on TV right now, Chief Lanier claims they're still looking for a person of interest, the black suspect with grey hair. But then FBI/mayor keeps referring to "the shooter". Mayor now saying they're still looking for the second suspect "who hasn't been ruled out or ruled in." Who knows? Yet that's the most important piece of information--is there a second gunman running around?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:31 PM on September 16, 2013

There are so many facets to a tragedy like this, but the thing that always gets me is imagining drinking their coffee, walking the dog, leaving the house this morning, not knowing that they would never return.
posted by thelonius at 1:31 PM on September 16, 2013 [6 favorites]

NBC news (breaking news right and left) claiming that suspect served in Navy in Ft. Worth for 4 years.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:34 PM on September 16, 2013

Potomac Avenue - Gray and Lanier have been saying two different things all day long. It shouldn't surprise anyone that one of them is wrong, he usually is.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 1:34 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

And, just like the first one, an opportunity for Russian and US officials to show off their deep ignorance of one another's countries and their own.

I can almost guarantee that if the tweet came from a Russian official, there is no ignorance on display whatsoever. Just good ole' fashioned calculated politicking.
posted by griphus at 1:36 PM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

A "person of interest" isn't the same thing as "a second shooter." That is probably where the confusion is coming from.
posted by muddgirl at 1:37 PM on September 16, 2013

playertobenamedlater, thanks for the laugh, I needed that. Also, the idea going around earlier about the gunman being "between floors" got me thinking of Being John Malkovich.
posted by exogenous at 1:37 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Reddit admins ban let's-crowdsleuth-the-shooters subreddit

oh yay. that's a tiny bit of good news.

Apparently down to their on-again off-again doxing policy and not anything to do with it being a terrible idea.
posted by Artw at 1:39 PM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

Local FtW paper going with the ID that popped up earlier, and has talked to some acquaintances apparently.
posted by emjaybee at 1:40 PM on September 16, 2013

No, the wierd thing is that they gave the race of the guy who called the shooter "black" but not the woman who called the shooter "dark-skinned".

Ah—sorry; missed that. Thanks for the correction.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:42 PM on September 16, 2013

Looks like a mental case not political or disgruntled worker, other than "Friends said he left the Navy because he didn’t like to get up early."
posted by stbalbach at 1:51 PM on September 16, 2013

zarq: "Sys Rq: "Nearly all domestic terrorism in the US is committed by (ex-) military personnel."

True. Rudolph, Nicols, McVeigh, Page, Dorner. All ex-mil."

Correlation is not causality.
posted by gertzedek at 1:57 PM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

No one has implied causation, only noted the correlation.
posted by solotoro at 2:01 PM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

I don't think they implied it did?
posted by Justinian at 2:02 PM on September 16, 2013

I don't know what the news is saying, but my relative just posted he's safe but still in lockdown. So I assume they still consider there may be a second shooter.
posted by DoubleLune at 2:03 PM on September 16, 2013

Though you might want to put some bounds on that. If you go back to, say, the 1900s, that correlation probably wouldn't hold true.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:03 PM on September 16, 2013

Correlation is not causality.

We know.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 2:04 PM on September 16, 2013 [8 favorites]

Similarly, if we're talking about mass shootings (such as this), I'm not sure that it would necessarily hold. But terrorism should require some kind of intent, and we don't know this person's.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:04 PM on September 16, 2013

I'm heading home now. My heart aches knowing that 12 people commuted to their Federal jobs this morning just like I did and they aren't coming home tonight. Going to be a somber ride.
posted by smoothvirus at 2:05 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

The causal link could also go the other direction, at least partially: people who want to express themselves with violence may be more likely to join the military.
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:08 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Those Fort Worth locations mentioned are all super close to where my friends and family live and work. :-/
posted by kmz at 2:09 PM on September 16, 2013

solotoro: "No one has implied causation, only noted the correlation."

Exactly.
posted by zarq at 2:12 PM on September 16, 2013

With top D.C. officials confirming 12 dead, the Navy Yard shooting represents the worst loss of life in a single incident within the District of Columbia since an airliner plunged into the Potomac River in 1982, killing 78.

Since Flight 77 came to mind and it might to someone else, The Pentagon is in Arlington County, Virginia, just on the other side of the Potomac from the District.

posted by Celsius1414 at 2:15 PM on September 16, 2013

> My heart aches knowing that 12 people commuted to their Federal jobs this morning just like I did and they aren't coming home tonight.

Definitely.

I work in a location with similar security precautions and it's unnerving to realize that I'm not truly 'safe' after all, even on a base and in a building with card-based access.

Oh, I know that anything similar happening to me is statistically very unlikely, but events like today still drive home the oft-repeated warning that the insider threat can be the most devastating.
posted by bookdragoness at 2:28 PM on September 16, 2013

No one has implied causation, only noted the correlation."

And correlation is a powerful thing. Most of science is correlation. You notice some correlation and use it as a clue to look for more correlation. Rarely is causation ever established.
posted by stbalbach at 2:28 PM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

Until a black or brown person does it. Only then can you expect very sensible, restrictive gun rules.

John Allen Muhammad, Lee Boyd Malvo, and Nidal Malik Hasan.
posted by SuzySmith at 2:29 PM on September 16, 2013 [7 favorites]

There was shooting in Kamloops, British Columbia about 15 years ago. The "trigger" was workplace bullying./
posted by KokuRyu at 2:31 PM on September 16, 2013

Until a black or brown person does it. Only then can you expect very sensible, restrictive gun rules.

Seung-Hui Cho, Virginia Tech shooter.
posted by sweetkid at 2:36 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

LOL, we classify people by "brown," "black," and "yellow," now? Seung-Hui Cho came from an actual country and culture, you know. Surely we can get a little more granular than skin pigmentation.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:40 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Huh? I was just responding to the "once we have a nonwhite shooter, we will have restrictive gun rules" argument.
posted by sweetkid at 2:45 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Because it's happened already and we don't.
posted by sweetkid at 2:45 PM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

Also, Seung-Hui Cho came to America as a kid, so part of his "culture" is American.
posted by sweetkid at 2:47 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Surely, KokoRyu, we can here at MeFi. It's the rest of the country we have to be concerned about. I'm already seeing random racist tweets, like asking why Texas wasn't able to "get the slum out" of Alexis.

sweetkid, with something like this, it's important for us all to have our /hamburger sensors tweaked up.

The White House finally (last ten minutes) cancelled the Latin Music event that was to be broadcast on PBS tonight. The First Lady made an inopportune comment this morning that was already probably getting discussed on FOX panels.
posted by dhartung at 2:47 PM on September 16, 2013

James Calvin Brady
posted by thelonius at 2:48 PM on September 16, 2013

sweetkid, with something like this, it's important for us all to have our /hamburger sensors tweaked up

you're talking about the initial comment that said something about "black and brown"people? That's possible. Seems like a lot of people in this thread, including me didn't see it that way.

PS I didn't and wouldn't say anything about "yellow." I was responding to the original comment.
posted by sweetkid at 2:51 PM on September 16, 2013

The Metro is one super long walk from the Yard gate, much less some of the offices.

This might be a matter of perspective, but it's four blocks from the Metro to the gate. That cannot be the deterrent for most people who would consider using transit but aren't.
posted by psoas at 2:55 PM on September 16, 2013

I sort of feel like these online responses to episodes of mass violence begin to take on a certain familiar, ritualistic quality. I'm not trying to imply that people's feelings are intentionally disingenuous or theatrical, but together they often resemble some odd type of social performance. Personally I don't think it's healthy. There's always sort of this breathless fetishization of details, of emergent facts, that feels like spectacle masquerading as concern. I am not impugning any individual person's individual feelings or choice of expression, but I think we can all agree that social phenomena are more than the sum of their parts. And obviously there are people who are literally directly affected by events like this...but I really don't think most of the grieving are ever spending their time racing to post facts to an online message board.
posted by threeants at 2:55 PM on September 16, 2013 [8 favorites]

PS I didn't and wouldn't say anything about "yellow." I was responding to the original comment.

Fair enough.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:55 PM on September 16, 2013

Uber is offering free rides to workers stuck at the Navy Yard. Apparently, a few of my friends are still stuck on the base, and will be shuttled off without access to their cars.
posted by schmod at 3:03 PM on September 16, 2013

"I sort of feel like these online responses to episodes of mass violence begin to take on a certain familiar, ritualistic quality."

To be fair, for many of us, these episodes of mass violence seem familiar, even ritual.
posted by klangklangston at 3:04 PM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

much more to do with the fact that this just keeps fucking happening over and over and over again.

But it doesn't, that's the thing. Each of these incidents are different and distinct. They have different causes, and different targets. This time? It may have been resentment at his military branch of service. It may be a host of things. But actually, it has not all happened before. What has happened before is our response to large groups of certain kinds of deaths. And that is what is producing the familiarity.
posted by corb at 3:11 PM on September 16, 2013

I would like to not be an expert on gunshots and not to be an expert on this. We are — we do it well.

I don't know if they still do it, but for the longest time the British Army used to send some of its doctors to spend time in US hospitals so the medics could gain some experience in gunshot wounds. Why? Outside of a 'war zone', where else in the world was/is there such a constant, reliable supply?
posted by Mister Bijou at 3:13 PM on September 16, 2013

I guess-- and maybe this is more of a MeTa thing, so I'll be brief-- I don't understand why something like this needs to be discussed so breathlessly and emergently. If it sheds important light on the gun control debate or whatever else, it still will in three days. And with much less of what I (YMMV) see as a videogame-esque, borderline pornographic obsession with details of the action.
posted by threeants at 3:15 PM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Schmod, they're putting a lot of people on Metro. There were hundreds of people at Franconia-Springfield from WNY. I'd be willing to volunteer rides to NOVA since I live a mile from F-S Metro.
posted by smoothvirus at 3:17 PM on September 16, 2013

Each of these incidents are different and distinct.

If only there was one, unifying factor to the mass slayings in this country.

What could it be?
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 3:17 PM on September 16, 2013 [24 favorites]

And obviously there are people who are literally directly affected by events like this...but I really don't think most of the grieving are ever spending their time racing to post facts to an online message board.

Nor are they posting breathless moral condemnation of online message boards. Stones, glass houses, those without sin, etc.
posted by serif at 3:18 PM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Metafilter: You may be responding to ghosts.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 3:20 PM on September 16, 2013 [6 favorites]

Folks, please be cool, and if you see yourself starting to recite your same talking points and not interacting with people in the thread, consider giving it a pass until later?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:20 PM on September 16, 2013

Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton just said that DC is the safest city in the United States which seems absurd on its face. It's a bald-faced lie isn't it?
posted by Justinian at 3:21 PM on September 16, 2013

Nor are they posting breathless moral condemnation of online message boards.

I apologize if you felt condemned by my comment.
posted by threeants at 3:22 PM on September 16, 2013

At this point I feel like there is no way any discussion of "guns" is going to work for either side. We need to focus on getting people the mental health care that will help them realize there are solutions other than bullets.
posted by Big_B at 3:25 PM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

It's a bald-faced lie isn't it?

It's certainly completely factually true. But DC is very safe these days statistically. It's #46 on lists of the most dangerous cities, after Orlando and Providence RI.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:27 PM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

If it sheds important light on the gun control debate or whatever else, it still will in three days.

I think a lot of us feel like the wake of a tragedy is the only time people will pay attention to the possible cause of the tragedy. I think metafilter is better than the general public than this, but sometimes it can feel like, in the media at least, you have to bring up these issues when people are still emotional enough to actually care about them at all.

It's not the best way to do things, and I'm not sure if it's the best way to do things here. But the people who are bringing up gun control and the like are often doing that from an emotional place-- and often that emotion is simply exhaustion from how often this is happening and how little seems to be done about it. If it seems like bringing up gun control in the immediate wake of this kind of tragedy could do even a tiny bit to change people's minds or to get action taken, it can feel worth it.

I don't think it's probably the best approach for this kind of discussion-- here on metafilter or in the national media-- but I can definitely understand why it might often seem like the only approach that will get people to listen or care. And while I doubt it's likely to fix anything about gun control, I think focusing a conversation on mental health (in particular the mental health of veterans) is probably worth it, and it's a lot easier to have that conversation compassionately than the gun control one.
posted by NoraReed at 3:29 PM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

Yeah, I'm not really seeing the broad diversity of angry assholes with guns either. Sometimes they have slightly different specifics to their anger, or leave some stupid ass manifestos for the idiot media to pick apart? That's about it.
posted by Artw at 3:29 PM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

"Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton just said that DC is the safest city in the United States which seems absurd on its face. It's a bald-faced lie isn't it?"

I'd think it'd be pretty safe today, actually. Aside from the obvious.

("Aside from that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?")
posted by klangklangston at 3:35 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

It's #46 on lists of the most dangerous cities, after Orlando and Providence RI.

One of us is reading the list wrong? It looks to be the 14th or 15th most dangerous city in the country depending on whether you are looking at murder per capita or all violent crime per capita?

In any case, it's clearly not the safest city in the nation by any metric at all.
posted by Justinian at 3:38 PM on September 16, 2013

It sure seems safer to me now than it was when I was there in the early 90s, and living in Mount Pleasant, wondering if the Shotgun Stalker was going to shoot me when I went to the store after dark.
posted by rtha at 3:42 PM on September 16, 2013

I believe it had the worst crime (or at least homicide rates) in the nation in the early 90s so it is definitely safer by comparison.
posted by Justinian at 3:48 PM on September 16, 2013

It's certainly completely factually true. But DC is very safe these days statistically. It's #46 on lists of the most dangerous cities, after Orlando and Providence RI.

It's not #46 when you put that list in order.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:52 PM on September 16, 2013

From Rachel Weiner at the Washington Post: "RT @myfoxdc: Reports of shots fired on PA Ave - outside White House - were actually fireworks set off by a likely idiot."
posted by brina at 3:55 PM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

To be clear, this is the context for the "safest city" quote:

The fear rises when people don't have information and don't feel safe. This is a thriving community of residents. It's not a place just for large federal facilities.

To residents coming home today, the response of the police, taking down the shooter so quickly, reminds me again that this is the safest city in the United States. Not safe from attack, but safe.

The police and responders saved many lives. When this investigation is over, we'll have a sense of just how many.

Tonight, we want to say to residents, we don't think there's anything to fear in this city.

Her point beyond whether DC is actually statistically the safest city in the US is about whether the residents feel safe, and I think by and large we do.
posted by Copronymus at 3:55 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

It's certainly completely factually true. But DC is very safe these days statistically. It's #46 on lists of the most dangerous cities, after Orlando and Providence RI.

DC is 14th on the list (out of 72), when sorted by murder and non-negligent homicide, which this event seems to have eminently qualified for.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:01 PM on September 16, 2013

Can't possibly be. We all know that gunmen and serial killers always have three names.

/sigh (for those concerned, this is a glib comment on the state of the media, not an actual joke, sorry)

They do the three-name thing to make it much less likely anyone else shares the name. Media mostly sucks, for sure, but I don't think this is one of their wrongs.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 4:04 PM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

Just did some spreadsheeting. DC is 6th worst (or 30th safest) out of the 35 largest cities (500,000+) in violent crime, 5th worst in murder. If you restrict the sample to the 9 cities with 600-700K population it's in the middle. But I don't expect off-the-cuff commentary to be all that statistically defensible, in general.
posted by dhartung at 4:05 PM on September 16, 2013

Everyone must be held to an exact standard at all times. Except me.
posted by Justinian at 4:07 PM on September 16, 2013

Liveblog from Al-Jazeera America indicates they have determined that Aaron Alexis was a subcontractor for HP Enterprise, which was "refreshing equipment" at the Navy Yard.

DC authorities continue to look for a possible second shooter.

Also, in addition to the bullet-through-the-ceiling event in 2010, Alexis was questioned in relation to a 2004 incident in Seattle [Seattle police link] when he shot out the tires of the car of some construction workers he apparently didn't like parking in front of his house while working. He claimed a blackout, and spoke of having been present at "the events of 9/11", with his father describing him as participating in rescue attempts at Ground Zero.
posted by dhartung at 4:54 PM on September 16, 2013

Can we drop the "Let's compare the overall safety of major American metropolitan areas" derail again?

I know everyone has an axe to grind, but let's please figure out what we're responding to before we actually make that response...
posted by schmod at 4:58 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

In addition to the relatively easy access to guns in the U.S., I think the ongoing militarization of our nation/society is also to blame for the uptick in acts of public violence. Warriors are gonna make war.
posted by nowhere man at 5:04 PM on September 16, 2013

But it doesn't, that's the thing. Each of these incidents are different and distinct.

They have one thing in common: they happen. And they don't happen in any other similar country with the frequency or brutality that they do in the US.
posted by klanawa at 5:06 PM on September 16, 2013 [10 favorites]

From the NYT liveblog: "Vice Admiral William D. French said at a briefing that 2,000 people remained at the Washington Navy Yard, and that officials were in the process of trying to get them home."

It's been 12 hours since the shooting. I'm stunned.
posted by argonauta at 5:44 PM on September 16, 2013

D.C. is relatively safe if you're not in this guy's demographic.

If you're young, poor, black (or Latino) and male, and live in certain neighborhoods, it isn't safe at all.
posted by bad grammar at 5:56 PM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

My relative who was in the Navy Yard didn't get home until 7pm. He posted it on FB and someone felt it was appropriate to rant about the right to bear arms on his post that he was finally home. Because, you know, it's not like he wasn't just in lockdown for the better part of a day while a shooter was potentially loose and potentially in his building. Real considerate, that one.
posted by DoubleLune at 6:26 PM on September 16, 2013 [8 favorites]

If you're young, poor, black (or Latino) and male, and live in certain neighborhoods, it isn't safe at all.

Yea this is what's frustrating about "is it safe for tourists" comments. Those crime statistics are mostly for people living in poor neighborhoods with systemic issues where tourists would never have reason to go. It's not about you, middle class suburban tourists.
posted by sweetkid at 6:32 PM on September 16, 2013 [5 favorites]

How Gun Laws Factor Into The Navy Yard Shooting
posted by homunculus at 6:47 PM on September 16, 2013

Charles Pierce, who is in Ireland: The View From Here
posted by homunculus at 6:49 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Also, in addition to the bullet-through-the-ceiling event in 2010, Alexis was questioned in relation to a 2004 incident in Seattle [Seattle police link] when he shot out the tires of the car of some construction workers he apparently didn't like parking in front of his house while working.

And then he bought more guns. And got a security clearance. Hmm.
posted by naoko at 6:59 PM on September 16, 2013

My relative who was in the Navy Yard didn't get home until 7pm. He posted it on FB and someone felt it was appropriate to rant about the right to bear arms on his post that he was finally home. Because, you know, it's not like he wasn't just in lockdown for the better part of a day while a shooter was potentially loose and potentially in his building. Real considerate, that one.

The ranters think that if they stop ranting, even for a second, someone might go "hey, wait a minute," and then all might be lost.
posted by emjaybee at 7:01 PM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

And then he bought more guns. And got a security clearance. Hmm.

My understanding is that a security clearance is pretty much a joke these days. So many people have to have them that it's indicative of almost nothing.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:04 PM on September 16, 2013

According to this [la times, use incognito mode]; Aaron was not charged in the 2010 ceiling shooting incident because ""the elements constituting recklessness under Texas law were not present." despite the fact that Aaron and the woman living in the apartment had a history of conflict over noise that he said were coming from her apartment.
posted by rdr at 7:13 PM on September 16, 2013

"2,000 people remained at the Washington Navy Yard, and that officials were in the process of trying to get them home."
It's been 12 hours since the shooting. I'm stunned.

News radio here was reporting that they were (all?) being "given a chance to make a statement"/ interviewed/ processed by the FBI.
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:37 PM on September 16, 2013

rtha: "It sure seems safer to me now than it was when I was there in the early 90s, and living in Mount Pleasant, wondering if the Shotgun Stalker was going to shoot me when I went to the store after dark."

This is statistically quite probable; homicide rates have been declining steadily since that time and are on track in the US to be at there lowest in the last 100 years.
posted by Mitheral at 7:47 PM on September 16, 2013

One comment deleted; let's not get any further into George Zimmerman analysis here. Thanks.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:13 PM on September 16, 2013

If you're young, poor, black (or Latino) and male, and live in certain neighborhoods, it isn't safe at all.

Yeah, I've been to two of the most dangerous cities in the world (Guatemala City and San Salvador), and even those two are fine if you're a tourist and hang around the nice parts, while being a living hell for the people who actually live in the not-nice parts. Really the only city I've ever been in that I've felt unsafe in was Baltimore, and that's because I know too many people who were robbed, assaulted or killed there.
posted by empath at 8:25 PM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

I'm fucking sad and angry, Mefi. One of my good friends lost her father today. He was just an old guy going to work, and because a series of stupid decisions both individually (the shooter) and across our society, she's now an orphan. No one deserves this. No one deserves to have their lives cut short by a device that makes hasty decisions so permanent. Daughters and sons and grandchildren should not have to mourn a life ended like this.
posted by frecklefaerie at 9:12 PM on September 16, 2013 [22 favorites]

So sorry to hear that, frecklefaerie.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 9:14 PM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Sorry to hear of your friends loss, freklefaerie, and thanks for posting as it brings home the reality of this, puts it on a human level. One human will have to console another human because a third human was killed by a fourth human. Humanity? You can keep it.
posted by marienbad at 3:17 AM on September 17, 2013

The ranters think that if they stop ranting, even for a second, someone might go "hey, wait a minute," and then all might be lost.

I think that is absolutely true, for both pro-Second Amendment and gun control supporters. Each side has a more aggressive side that believes not even a second must be taken.

That's why I'm kind of glad cortex came in to ask that the "rote recital of various gun- and violence-related arguments" not happen here. It made the thread much better.
posted by corb at 4:18 AM on September 17, 2013 [1 favorite]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend's dad, frecklefairie.
posted by EvaDestruction at 5:22 AM on September 17, 2013

Just in case anyone is curious about the "security clearances" in this case - it's starting to sound like, based on what I heard from numerous source including Fox 5 this morning, he had an interim "secret" clearance. An interim "secret" clearance often just checks to see if you have any felony convictions or pending felony charges.

The question now is - did the Navy drop its guard?
posted by playertobenamedlater at 6:09 AM on September 17, 2013

More importantly, an interim secret clearance means your secret clearance has not finished processing yet. There's a long, involved process in clearing someone, and it takes several months. Interim is the "You're probably not a felon, we can start getting your access together, but you usually can't work on anything"
posted by corb at 6:29 AM on September 17, 2013

Comment removed. My fellow non-Americans: please don't gloat over the United States' societal ills or ascribe them to the American people at large. They're not a monolithic entity, and many of them are painfully aware of the state of health care and economic inequality in their country. Upthread, cortex suggested not simply going through the motions of well-trodden rhetoric here: I'd posit that this applies to "Well what did you expect, America"-type comments as well. Thank you.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 7:34 AM on September 17, 2013 [21 favorites]

This buzzfeed link has a lot of info, some of it not confirmed - the new pieces are that Alexis was supposedly a practicing Buddhist, and is a New Yorker - home of record, NYC. Which, whoa, close to home for me - that picture of his family's place is Brownstone Brooklyn.
posted by corb at 8:26 AM on September 17, 2013

The question now isn't if the Navy dropped its guard... though many budget hawks would love you to start thinking that, to fire up your emotional outrage and give back the dollars that sequestration took away to protect these bases. But thats a fallacy. A lone lunatic, bent on causing pain and anguish akin to his own internal suffering somehow attributed to the Navy (or insert Organization/State here) went on a rampage. No amount of base security, airport scanners or minimized ounces of liquid stop people such as these.
posted by vonstadler at 8:32 AM on September 17, 2013 [1 favorite]

No amount of base security, airport scanners or minimized ounces of liquid stop people such as these.

Where did he get his guns?
posted by inigo2 at 8:41 AM on September 17, 2013

I've been seeing reports that he killed a security guard and picked up his rifle, though I'm not sure if that accounts for everything or was just to refill ammo.
posted by corb at 8:46 AM on September 17, 2013

Media are quoting this from an Associated Press report: "Three weapons: an AR-15 assault rifle, a shotgun, and a handgun that he took from a police officer at the scene, according to two federal law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the investigation."

The AR-15 is the same type of rifle used in last year's shooting at a Newtown, Conn., elementary school that killed 20 children and six adults. The weapon was also used in the shooting at a Colorado movie theater that killed 12 and wounded 70."
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:54 AM on September 17, 2013

Where did he get his guns?

At both the Navy Yard and the Pentagon the armed security are often carrying hi capacity magazine clips and AR-15 style assault weapons.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 8:55 AM on September 17, 2013

Three weapons: an AR-15 assault rifle, a shotgun, and a handgun that he took from a police officer at the scene

Sorry, having trouble parsing -- he took all three of those from a police officer? Or just the handgun?
posted by inigo2 at 8:56 AM on September 17, 2013

Media reports quote law enforcement officials who say he bought the shotgun last week from a gun dealer in Lorton, Va., about 20 miles from Washington.
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:58 AM on September 17, 2013

Or just the handgun?

Various sources say: just the handgun.
posted by Mister Bijou at 9:00 AM on September 17, 2013

That's actually really interesting - any speculation on motive? I can't imagine wanting to take a handgun if I was already armed with an AR. It's not better, and you can get fewer ammunition refills on-base.
posted by corb at 9:01 AM on September 17, 2013

any speculation on motive?

Me speculating: the more the merrier?
posted by Mister Bijou at 9:02 AM on September 17, 2013

You take a gun from a cop so he can't shoot you.
posted by rtha at 9:10 AM on September 17, 2013 [1 favorite]

The availability of guns is only one piece of this. Mentally healthy people with options and support don't just pick up a gun and start killing people. If you took a country with a better social support system and gave them as many guns as we have, would you still see this level of violence? It seems so reductive to just zero in on guns and ignore the thousand other failings that lead to these tragedies. The guns are the tools, they make it easy to kill people, but where are all these men with the drive to mass murder coming from?
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:19 AM on September 17, 2013 [6 favorites]

The AR-15 is the same type of rifle used in last year's shooting at a Newtown, Conn., elementary school that killed 20 children and six adults. The weapon was also used in the shooting at a Colorado movie theater that killed 12 and wounded 70."

The same gun that is responsible for less than 5% of gun related deaths every year? I would kindly suggest that if anyone is really serious about stopping gun violence in this country you should probably focus on the main culprit in most cases of gun violence...handguns.

The weird thing is that people are being killed all the time by handguns and you never hear about it. It seems we only ever hear about gun violence when someone shoots up a public space using a semi-automatic rifle.

Now watch the push or another assault weapons ban begin again. Will they bring up a handgun ban? I doubt it.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 9:22 AM on September 17, 2013 [1 favorite]

I will be surprised if this leads to any push for any gun control, after what happened to the push after Newtown, and the Colorado recall elections.

Maybe there will be some push to improve mental health care, but I'm pessimistic about that as well.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 9:28 AM on September 17, 2013 [2 favorites]

When I first heard about the shooter I immediately thought of this article on the Northern Illinois University shooting in 2008.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 9:30 AM on September 17, 2013

Or, I suppose I should say, feels like there is a major flaw in the security clearance process. Vs someone dropping the ball.
posted by double bubble at 9:32 AM on September 17, 2013

Now watch the push or another assault weapons ban begin again.

Good. Guns are bad and they kill people and we should have less of them. Yes, you are entirely right that people's ire after these mass shootings are directed at automatic weapons, and not directed at handguns, and handguns are the real culprit. However, the availability of automatic weapons in the US affects crime, not just in the US, but in Mexico.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 9:44 AM on September 17, 2013 [1 favorite]

friendly reminder, this is a thread about a thing that happened and turning it into a "This is my position on gun control" thread will likely reduce the quality of discussion and/or draw the discussion of the incident to a complete stop. Up to you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:47 AM on September 17, 2013 [2 favorites]

Alexis was supposedly a practicing Buddhist

Some interesting stuff in this Washington Post profile:

“He’s a 13-year-old stuck in a 34-year-old body,” said Oui Suthamtewakul, owner of the Happy Bowl Thai restaurant in White Settlement, Tex., and a friend who lived with Alexis for most of the past three years.

He seems smart and gregarious, though easy to anger. I wonder what were his goals for his meditation practice. Some serious inner demon shit no doubt.
posted by 0 at 9:52 AM on September 17, 2013

Unfortunately, like AE, I can't see this having a material effect on gun control. Nor will it lead to any improvement in treatment of mental health issues. This makes me so sad.
posted by arcticseal at 9:54 AM on September 17, 2013

More importantly, an interim secret clearance means your secret clearance has not finished processing yet. There's a long, involved process in clearing someone, and it takes several months.

Yeah, I've known people whose internships ended before their real clearances even came through. I've also had federal agents not follow up with me for the background checks of friends because I don't live in DC any longer, so I assume it's a very complicated process that varies widely depending on who/what/what bureau.
posted by jetlagaddict at 10:01 AM on September 17, 2013

I'm so sorry, frecklefairie.

However, the availability of automatic weapons in the US affects crime, not just in the US, but in Mexico.-MisantropicPainforest

You do realize that there is a very low availability of automatic weapons in the US? This is a good explanation, although prices now are higher. You would look at 16,000 plus for any fully automatic weapon. Also, fully automatic weapons are not what you are seeing used in these crimes. Semiautomatic ones are, however a large part of the population doesn't understand the difference between the two:

"Are they illegal? No. Are they highly regulated? Yes.

Contrary to popular belief, fully automatic weapons are NOT illegal. They are however HIGHLY regulated. Full auto weapons have been regulated with three different pieces of legislation. The first was the National Firearms Act of 1934, then the Gun Control Act of 1968, and finally the Hughes Amendment in 1986. In essence, what these three laws have done is to say respectfully that fully automatic firearms must be taxed and regulated, cannot be imported from outside the United States, and can no longer manufacture and/or register new/existing full auto weapons with the federal government (BATFE).

In order to legally own one, you must first find one that you wish to buy. For it to be legal, it must have been made and registered with the BATFE prior to 19 May 1986. These are what are known as transferrable NFA or Class III items.

Your next step will be to negotiate a price with the buyer. Most buyers have their prices set pretty firm and the going rate for a M16 varies by condition and model (M16A1, A2, AR-15 conversion, etc). A brand new, unfired, factory Colt M16A2 is going to run you about $18,000+ while a used AR-15 conversion will run you about $9,500-$13,000+. You will just have to shop around and look for the best deal out there.

Once you find one and negotiate a price you will need to pay the seller. Depending on if you are buying the item from out of state or not, you may also need to find a local Class III FFL/SOT to handle the transfer. NFA/Class III items CANNOT be shipped or carried across state lines without the proper prior approved paperwork. If buying out of state, you would need to have it transferred to a local seller who would then transfer it to you. Once you have found a FFL/SOT if needed, you will need to pay the seller. Unlike with other firearms where you can often do installment payments for years or put it on a credit card, most NFA sellers want full funds up front although some are willing to work with you and do half now, half when the paperwork comes back. At best, you are looking at half up front before he will even start the paperwork.

Once the seller is satisfied with the payment plan and has his funds, he will begin the paperwork. This requires a little bit of work on your end. You will need to get a few things in order for the process to be complete. You will need to get two sets of fingerprint cards done, two passport photos, and fill out a Form 4 (to include the signature of the CLEO of the area you live in) and write a check to the Department of the Treasury for the $200 transfer tax. It is this special tax that will allow you to legally own the weapon. Once you have all this together along with the required paperwork from the seller, you will ship it all to the BATFE who will then have one of their 10 or so inspectors sit down and review it. Any little error will cause it to be rejected and sent back. This is where the frustration begins as the wait starts. It generally takes anywhere from 50-90 days for them to process an application. The main thing that they will be doing is running an extensive background check on you through the FBI criminal database using all your information as well as your fingerprints.

Once the paperwork finally comes back, the seller can then legally ship/transfer the weapon to you. You CANNOT take posession of it before this time or it will be the same as being in possession of an unregistered machine gun which carries a stiff penalty in federal prison.

And that is all there is to it. Once you receive the tax stamp, always makes sure you keep a COPY with the weapon at all times no matter where it goes. Also, remember to keep the original in a SAFE place where nothing will happen to it as the BATFE does not replace lost, stolen, or destroyed tax stamps.

The above advice assumes you are buying in state. If buying out of state, the process is the same, except that you will be required to do two to three transfers. One from the seller to a Class III FFL/SOT if he is not already one, then one from the FFL/SOT in his state to an FFL/SOT in your state, and then from your local FFL/SOT to you. There is no wait time or transfer tax between FFL/SOT's. This means that you will basically only be waiting on the time it takes for two transfers if buying out of state. "
posted by SuzySmith at 10:09 AM on September 17, 2013 [5 favorites]

Remembering the Victims, from the Washington Post.
posted by EvaDestruction at 10:10 AM on September 17, 2013

Oh man, I wish the news would stop reporting the NDSM and GWOT wrong. They're not "minor distinction" medals, they're participation medals. Every single servicemember who has joined the military or existed in the military in a "time of war" gets the NDSM. Every single servicemember since 9/11 gets the GWOT. They don't mean anything.

I'm actually more curious about how the report of him shooting out the tires got "lost" on the way to the Seattle DA.
posted by corb at 10:10 AM on September 17, 2013 [2 favorites]

I'm having trouble understanding how someone didn't drop the ball on his security clearance. One of the charges against him involved discharging a firearm in a "blackout state" (or so he claims). Seems like a red flag. And it only took the media about an hour to dig up.

From the link up thread he was arrested but it isn't clear whether he was convicted. If he wasn't then that shouldn't be an impediment (innocent until proven guilty).
posted by Mitheral at 10:20 AM on September 17, 2013

They don't mean anything.
I see, then that is why they give them out all willy-nilly...I simply do not agree. A medal is a medal. The importence is not up to you unless you have made this personal discernment in which case thank you for your opinion. Ya know alot of solders say ..."Ah its' just a silver star or bronze...Purple heart." Even medal of honor winners 'ah shucks' for the most it is called humility.
posted by clavdivs at 10:24 AM on September 17, 2013

From the link up thread he was arrested but it isn't clear whether he was convicted.

Since this wasn't for an TS/SCI or Yankee White clearance, just your run of the mill "medium security" clearance (read: public trust), those wouldn't have mattered even if he took a misdemeanor plea on them.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 10:29 AM on September 17, 2013

Well, so far, I have one co-worker whose cousin worked with Alexis at WNY installing computers. Also, another friend of mine has a brother who also worked with him and knew him. One thing I've heard was that he spent some time working in Japan for HP (subcontract I guess) and expected a lump sum payment in his bank account when he got home. It wasn't there apparenly and he wasn't happy about that.

Both sources I heard from thought the guy had anger issues.
posted by smoothvirus at 11:40 AM on September 17, 2013

The next mass shooting will take place on February 12, 2014, in Spokane, Washington. It will be committed by an emotionally disturbed, 38 year-old white man who will kill seven people and wound six more at a place he used to work using a semi-automatic handgun he purchased legally in the state.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 12:30 PM on September 17, 2013 [2 favorites]

The next mass shooting will take place on February 12, 2014, in Spokane, Washington. It will be committed by an emotionally disturbed, 38 year-old white man who will kill seven people and wound six more at a place he used to work using a semi-automatic handgun he purchased legally in the state.

Sadly, once again, the Onion was there first.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:39 PM on September 17, 2013

In current reports, it sounds like they are backing off the claim he had an AR-15. Sounds like they now think he came in/started with only the shotgun, shot the security guard and took his handgun, and those were the only weapons he used. Not clear where the report of the AR-15 came from.
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:06 PM on September 17, 2013 [1 favorite]

Re: the ~~Mother Jones~~ The Atlantic probability/prediction model: This is only going to scare people away from getting mental health.

I think we're pretty safe to say that improvements to the mental health system in the US would reduce the number of these things. But if you're going to put qualifiers like "documented examples of treatment attempts" it's only going drive that subset of people further away from getting the help they need for fear of being "on a list somewhere".

tl;dr: Nothing good comes from these sorts of things. Edit: both shootings and these ridiculous "prediction" models.
posted by Blue_Villain at 1:09 PM on September 17, 2013 [1 favorite]

Since this wasn't for an TS/SCI or Yankee White clearance, just your run of the mill "medium security" clearance (read: public trust), those wouldn't have mattered even if he took a misdemeanor plea on them.

Really? I'm surprised. Seems like it would go to mental state - although I guess they wouldn't have pushed further to get details since no conviction.
posted by double bubble at 1:46 PM on September 17, 2013 [1 favorite]

Not clear where the report of the AR-15 came from.

If we assume the guy in the tan uniform they were looking for initially but cleared had his weapon out legally, it might well have been an M-16 or M-4 or something used for defense of the compound - and reports might have just gotten the two mixed up.
posted by corb at 2:37 PM on September 17, 2013

The guy was in Newport, RI last month, doing IT work at the Navy lab according to people I know there... contractor with HP working for NMCI. He got in trouble with the cops at his hotel because he was acting pretty delusional and aggressive, and apparently was having episodes on the job as well, and was griping up a storm about being put on travel so much.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:13 PM on September 17, 2013 [3 favorites]

SuzySmith - interesting comment about purchasing fully automatic weapons. I'd be ok with having those procedures, including the 200$ tax, apply to any purchase of any firearm.
posted by Rumple at 6:35 PM on September 17, 2013 [1 favorite]

One of the victims was from here in Fayetteville. Her daughter just got married here a few weeks ago, and I managed to find a link to a few wedding photos.

What an absolute punch to the gut this must be to her family.

.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:55 PM on September 17, 2013

VA: Aaron Alexis Never Sought Treatment for PTSD
posted by corb at 6:43 PM on September 18, 2013

Jon Stewart: GOP Loves Second Amendment and The Rest Are Just ‘Suggestions’
posted by homunculus at 10:11 PM on September 18, 2013 [1 favorite]

If there was an ammendment relating to high fructose corn syrup they'd probably be pretty gung ho for that.
posted by Artw at 6:01 AM on September 19, 2013

When 12 people are massacred in Washington, it’s not people dying in Real America. The rest of the nation does not stand “D.C. Strong.”
posted by troika at 8:46 AM on September 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

That's true. Also no one was "Wisconsin strong" after the Sikh temple shooting.
posted by sweetkid at 8:49 AM on September 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

If it makes you all feel better, most of the "Boston Strong" shirts in Boston/Cambridge nowadays are cheering on athletic teams.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 9:16 AM on September 19, 2013

no, that doesn't make me feel better. That's also not the point if you read troika's link
posted by sweetkid at 9:18 AM on September 19, 2013

You know what? Never mind. There was a bomb scare in Watertown yesterday, and I'm a little touchy. Sorry. I just meant that "Boston Strong" is only skin deep, and that I doubt most Americans think of Boston as "Real America" any more than they think of DC that way. I think the subdued reaction to the shooting at Navy Yard wasn't so much because people don't think of DC as a place people live as it is that mass shooting are not completely fucking quotidian, whereas bombings and day-long lockdowns of a city have some novelty to them. I just don't think it should be a contest, even though I know it is.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 9:27 AM on September 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

That was an interesting read troika. I've felt that resentment from outside the city too. After the recession I heard all kinds of stuff about how people who lived in the DC area "made too much money" and "deserved to suffer just like everyone else did".

I may be reading too much into it but I wonder if there's an element of revenge in the sequester and the (probable) upcoming shutdown. The tea party types out there know they won't be hurting the president with all this stuff, but they will be hurting the middle-class workers whose paychecks won't be coming. They want to hurt us. It's personal.

I was at a resturaunt a couple of years ago in N.C. and as I was walking to the door I saw a cardboard sign that had been blown over in the parking lot. I picked it up and read it. To my recollection it said something like:
"If you are a federal employee you are not welcome here. Leave now or you will be asked to leave and charged with trespassing. I am sorry to lose your business but with blah blah blah going on in Washington hurting this town we don't want you here. Go home to DC."
I dropped it and went in anyway, it's not like I go around telling the guy I order an omlet from where I work.
posted by smoothvirus at 9:29 AM on September 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

It was also just one workday in one workplace so it's not like the day was all that different for most of us in DC. The Boston bombing terror went on for days with the bombers on the run and whole sections of town locked down and police going door-to-door, none of that happened here.

But yes, the resentment towards "DC" is certainly palpable and incredibly misplaced particularly when in reality its the representatives of people from outside DC that are causing the problems in the Federal government.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 9:44 AM on September 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I was talking about the lack of national attention with a friend and we also thought that it's noteworthy that there's nothing "sexy" about this. There are no photos all over social media, no 12 Photos of the Navy Yard Massacre You Have To SEE TO BELIEVE listicles from fucking Buzzfeed, no incredible stories of heroics (though I'm sure they'll emerge), and all of the victims were 45+. And on top of that it happened in Washington DC, a place most of the country resents as being full of lobbyists, fat cats, and politicians.
posted by troika at 10:08 AM on September 19, 2013

(that's not saying that I *want* those things. Just that, if people don't have anything to gawk at, it's easily pushed out of sight/out of mind)
posted by troika at 10:15 AM on September 19, 2013

It's always incredible to me when I meet people who have no idea, none at all, that people live in DC. Hundreds of thousands of people, who have all kinds of jobs and lives. But no, definitely it's all a bunch of fat cats, and those lawyers! Who needs 'em*!

That said, I suspect it's the very enclave, locked-down nature of the Navy Yard that prevented a lot of the "sexy" shots like bloody victims and people running around in terror from going out. No one's taking photos of the lines of people retrieving their cars while waiting in line for hours, two days later. I think that's good, honestly.

*relatives will say this to the face of my parents, who are both DC lawyers, which I will never understand
posted by jetlagaddict at 10:27 AM on September 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

It's always incredible to me when I meet people who have no idea, none at all, that people live in DC. Hundreds of thousands of people, who have all kinds of jobs and lives.

I like to really blow those peoples' minds by telling them about how we pay federal taxes, but don't have voting representation in Congress.
posted by inigo2 at 10:50 AM on September 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

The Express had a similar essay as its cover story today (PDF link, essay is on pg 8)
posted by troika at 8:50 AM on September 20, 2013

Navy Yard shooter Aaron Alexis driven by delusions
posted by Artw at 2:20 PM on September 25, 2013

« Older Turning Weapons Into Instruments | Deals on Wheels Newer »

This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments

MetaFilter

Active shooter at Navy Yard in SE DC
September 16, 2013 7:11 AM Subscribe

Tags

Share

Active shooter at Navy Yard in SE DC September 16, 2013 7:11 AM Subscribe

Tags

Share

Active shooter at Navy Yard in SE DC
September 16, 2013 7:11 AM Subscribe