"In fact, there are no places that are not for ladies anymore."
March 8, 2014 11:31 AM Subscribe
Earlier this week, the captain of a Westjet flight received a note from a passenger regarding her place in the "cockpit". At the time Westjet declined to comment, feeling no need to "lend credibility to the author of the note." In honour of today being International Women's Day, Westjet has provided a more subtle response.
Very positive and more effective than any response I could have thought up!
posted by Anitanola at 11:37 AM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Anitanola at 11:37 AM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
I am still thinking this note is going to turn out to have been a fake. Like that waitress who supposedly got an anti-gay note instead of a tip, or those two dads whose daughter's birthday invitation was rejected by another supposed homophobe.
I have no evidence at all that this is fake, it is just my guy feeling.
posted by LarryC at 11:42 AM on March 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
I have no evidence at all that this is fake, it is just my guy feeling.
posted by LarryC at 11:42 AM on March 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
...it is just my guy feeling.
Dr. Freud to the white courtesy phone, please.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:44 AM on March 8, 2014 [256 favorites]
Dr. Freud to the white courtesy phone, please.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:44 AM on March 8, 2014 [256 favorites]
This is great. I feel like too many times the response to things like this end up lowering both parties and leaving out the people affected by the slurs. This puts the achievements of these women front and center, and doesn't give undue importance to that stupid sexist note.
posted by sweetkid at 11:44 AM on March 8, 2014 [13 favorites]
posted by sweetkid at 11:44 AM on March 8, 2014 [13 favorites]
What kind of jerk would write a note like that? (Sorry not PC) Matthew 7:1
posted by munchingzombie at 11:45 AM on March 8, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by munchingzombie at 11:45 AM on March 8, 2014 [9 favorites]
Yeah, that's just weird. So this person took a flight. And the female pilot got him from A to B, and THEN he complains? I mean, was it a rough flight or something? Did she land the plane too hard? How can you complain that a person is not fit to fly AFTER the flight?
Also, I just read the whole of Proverbs 31 and didn't see anything about who should be pilots. Maybe he (or she) got the number wrong?
posted by nushustu at 11:48 AM on March 8, 2014
Also, I just read the whole of Proverbs 31 and didn't see anything about who should be pilots. Maybe he (or she) got the number wrong?
posted by nushustu at 11:48 AM on March 8, 2014
Boy I can see how to make that traveler's life really interesting from now on. Flag them so they always get a "lady" pilot and then politely call them up to let them know so they have to rebook and when they rebook they mysteriously get another "lady" pilot and so on.
posted by chavenet at 11:48 AM on March 8, 2014 [35 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 11:48 AM on March 8, 2014 [35 favorites]
I would love for that note to be fake. But it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that there are people on this planet who think women shouldn't do anything but be married and have kids and not work at a job. It is in fact a very common way of thinking among a great many people, most but not all of them men.
posted by rtha at 11:50 AM on March 8, 2014 [12 favorites]
posted by rtha at 11:50 AM on March 8, 2014 [12 favorites]
Maybe his daughter wanted to be a pilot but died or something while training and he acted out of pitious impotent rage
posted by Renoroc at 11:50 AM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Renoroc at 11:50 AM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
That was a classy response, doesn't even mention the note. Brava!
posted by arcticseal at 11:54 AM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by arcticseal at 11:54 AM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
I don't know, I think between "captain" and (sorry not P.C.) the seal of dickbag authenticity is fairly intact here.
posted by emmtee at 11:54 AM on March 8, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by emmtee at 11:54 AM on March 8, 2014 [9 favorites]
I really like this westjet video. I like how proud all the women are about their accomplishments, and I feel like it would have been pretty affirming (as employees of westjet) to be asked to participate in this project after that story about the passenger's comments went viral this week.
At my work we have a restaurant (on campus in the grad student union) and for the second year in a row we had "pay equity lunch special" to celebrate women's day-- women were charged $0.89 on the dollar for the lunch special--representing the difference in pay for women in academic work (CAUT, 2011). (Last year we did 72cents, looking at general pay equity, and the feminist response to Harper's pay equity act).
It was very well received and great to walk about and overhear all the conversations this caused--I heard one table of guys having a lively talk about how their partners were being treated at work, for example.
posted by chapps at 12:00 PM on March 8, 2014 [40 favorites]
At my work we have a restaurant (on campus in the grad student union) and for the second year in a row we had "pay equity lunch special" to celebrate women's day-- women were charged $0.89 on the dollar for the lunch special--representing the difference in pay for women in academic work (CAUT, 2011). (Last year we did 72cents, looking at general pay equity, and the feminist response to Harper's pay equity act).
It was very well received and great to walk about and overhear all the conversations this caused--I heard one table of guys having a lively talk about how their partners were being treated at work, for example.
posted by chapps at 12:00 PM on March 8, 2014 [40 favorites]
Ever since Tim LaHaye weirdly fetishized the air travel industry for his Gary Stu character in the Left Behind series, I think some Christian evangelicals have been left with some rather odd ideas of what being a pilot means, like the person's supposed to be some sort of symbolic leader of the aircraft, not a person with certain technical skills regarding very large pieces of transportation equipment.
posted by Sequence at 12:07 PM on March 8, 2014 [33 favorites]
posted by Sequence at 12:07 PM on March 8, 2014 [33 favorites]
But it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that there are people on this planet who think women shouldn't do anything but be married and have kids and not work at a job.
Yeah, but I expect that attitude should probably also be coupled with "If God wanted us to fly he would have given us wings!"
posted by nushustu at 12:18 PM on March 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
Yeah, but I expect that attitude should probably also be coupled with "If God wanted us to fly he would have given us wings!"
posted by nushustu at 12:18 PM on March 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
That video is super cool. I'd like to see another montage with people that represent all arms of the air industry, kind of like the way Alain De Botton approached his book A Week at the Airport.
posted by oceanjesse at 12:21 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by oceanjesse at 12:21 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
...yeah, I started crying about halfway through that last video.
All of those women seem like awesome, accomplished, interesting professionals and now I want to sit down and talk and have some tea with every single one of them.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 12:22 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
All of those women seem like awesome, accomplished, interesting professionals and now I want to sit down and talk and have some tea with every single one of them.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 12:22 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's funny that, to comply with his notion of where women belong, *he*'s gonna be the one who has to stay home.
posted by notsnot at 12:23 PM on March 8, 2014 [17 favorites]
posted by notsnot at 12:23 PM on March 8, 2014 [17 favorites]
Oh I have no problem believing the note is real. It reminds me of the time when I'd just gotten my motorbike license and was celebrating (on foot, of course) in a local cafe. When I told an acquaintance what the occasion was, he responded 'Congrats, I suppose... although I really believe women belong on the back of a motorcycle, not the front.'
That's what some men are like, I'm afraid. Bless their backward little hearts.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:30 PM on March 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
That's what some men are like, I'm afraid. Bless their backward little hearts.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:30 PM on March 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
Oh, and happy International Women's Day, good people of MeFi!
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:31 PM on March 8, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:31 PM on March 8, 2014 [8 favorites]
Crazy person writes crazy-person note. It’s a little sad, is all.
posted by davel at 12:34 PM on March 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by davel at 12:34 PM on March 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
Crazy person writes crazy-person note. It’s a little sad, is all.
It's not an uncommon enough opinion to be crazy in my experience. Being dumb enough to express is is slightly out of the norm, but only a little so.
posted by winna at 12:40 PM on March 8, 2014 [11 favorites]
It's not an uncommon enough opinion to be crazy in my experience. Being dumb enough to express is is slightly out of the norm, but only a little so.
posted by winna at 12:40 PM on March 8, 2014 [11 favorites]
I try to only cry fake when I have actual evidence of fakery. For every one manufactured sexist or homophobic remark, there are a thousand real ones that didn't get any press, so I tend to bet with the odds.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:46 PM on March 8, 2014 [26 favorites]
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:46 PM on March 8, 2014 [26 favorites]
To elaborate a little more for people who haven't read it: Rayford Steele is a pilot, and in the world of Left Behind, that means everybody treats him just like such a person would have been treated in, say, the most idealized versions of 1960s jet set air travel. The flight attendants are madly in love with him, but while he's a bit of a lapsed Christian at first, he is still a Good Man who doesn't actually sleep with the woman who keeps throwing herself at him. Global leaders treat him like a peer, even the evil ones, and people call him Captain at cocktail parties. Blah blah countless souls saved.
But LaHaye is clearly much more in love with the idea of flying than with the actual practice, so there's a lot more about how important he is than about how one actually flies planes, or about airport security, or any of that. (Which was more relaxed before 2001, but it did still exist.) It's by far not the greatest failing in the series, but if all you knew of air travel came from Christian fiction, you would really think it was basically this.
This really is very much a thing that is likely to stay part of the evangelical consciousness until people forget those awful books were ever written, so it seems much more viable for that than if it was, say, a bus driver.
posted by Sequence at 12:49 PM on March 8, 2014 [7 favorites]
But LaHaye is clearly much more in love with the idea of flying than with the actual practice, so there's a lot more about how important he is than about how one actually flies planes, or about airport security, or any of that. (Which was more relaxed before 2001, but it did still exist.) It's by far not the greatest failing in the series, but if all you knew of air travel came from Christian fiction, you would really think it was basically this.
This really is very much a thing that is likely to stay part of the evangelical consciousness until people forget those awful books were ever written, so it seems much more viable for that than if it was, say, a bus driver.
posted by Sequence at 12:49 PM on March 8, 2014 [7 favorites]
I am still thinking this note is going to turn out to have been a fake. Like that waitress who supposedly got an anti-gay note instead of a tip, or those two dads whose daughter's birthday invitation was rejected by another supposed homophobe.
Ignoring the jokey autocorrect/typo you got burned on(A-HYUCKHYUCK), i'm kinda inclined to agree with you after years of internetting. i don't know what it is with notes like this. If someone posts "You wouldn't believe this asshole thing a customer said to me!" i'm inclined to believe them at face value, but when it's a note like this shit doesn't have a great track record.
However, i think an important thing to consider is; what's wrong with taking it at face value and responding in a classy way decrying this sort of thing in general?
No one is harmed by assuming this is real. No one was publicly named and shamed. Even if this is some bizarre publicity/attention stunt it has no target of malice other than the general, nebulous "shitty asshole people". And for every case that gets attention like this that might not be real, there's thousands where people just suffer silently.
One part of my brain is irritated with the fact that it thinks this might be fake, but the other part tells it to shut up because who cares. In the end, i like leaving the "LOL FAKE" to shitty reddit posters as often as i can resist the urge.
posted by emptythought at 12:56 PM on March 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
Ignoring the jokey autocorrect/typo you got burned on(A-HYUCKHYUCK), i'm kinda inclined to agree with you after years of internetting. i don't know what it is with notes like this. If someone posts "You wouldn't believe this asshole thing a customer said to me!" i'm inclined to believe them at face value, but when it's a note like this shit doesn't have a great track record.
However, i think an important thing to consider is; what's wrong with taking it at face value and responding in a classy way decrying this sort of thing in general?
No one is harmed by assuming this is real. No one was publicly named and shamed. Even if this is some bizarre publicity/attention stunt it has no target of malice other than the general, nebulous "shitty asshole people". And for every case that gets attention like this that might not be real, there's thousands where people just suffer silently.
One part of my brain is irritated with the fact that it thinks this might be fake, but the other part tells it to shut up because who cares. In the end, i like leaving the "LOL FAKE" to shitty reddit posters as often as i can resist the urge.
posted by emptythought at 12:56 PM on March 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
Shoulda piped this in over the speakers.
posted by echocollate at 12:59 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by echocollate at 12:59 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
Roberta Bondar was the cherry on top of that sweet, high-class, fuck-you sundae.
posted by dry white toast at 1:01 PM on March 8, 2014 [22 favorites]
posted by dry white toast at 1:01 PM on March 8, 2014 [22 favorites]
I would be extremely surprised if this turned out to be fake. If it is fake, then it seems more likely it was a (shitty) prank pulled on the pilot that got out of hand.
This woman is a professional pilot, and has made no effort to anonymize herself. What would she gain by making something like this up? How does that compare to what she would lose if this turned out to be a hoax she'd created on her own?
I can't think of a single reason not to take this at face value.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 1:04 PM on March 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
This woman is a professional pilot, and has made no effort to anonymize herself. What would she gain by making something like this up? How does that compare to what she would lose if this turned out to be a hoax she'd created on her own?
I can't think of a single reason not to take this at face value.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 1:04 PM on March 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
I didn't realise the connection until I saw the video's thumbnail come up in my Youtube history. For those who didn't see that either, it's a handwritten note on the same kind of napkin the passenger used, saying, "We ♥ women in aviation - WestJet".
posted by eykal at 1:04 PM on March 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by eykal at 1:04 PM on March 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I appreciated how they didn't just use Westjet employees, but Bondar, Bombardier/Boeing employees, and iirc an airport ops person. Took it a bit away from the potentially cheesy "look at how forward-thinking our company is" to a "yeah women work across the industry, this is a good thing."
posted by Lemurrhea at 1:06 PM on March 8, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by Lemurrhea at 1:06 PM on March 8, 2014 [8 favorites]
This is so great. Fast action putting that video together, too!
posted by alms at 1:14 PM on March 8, 2014
posted by alms at 1:14 PM on March 8, 2014
I didn't realise the connection until I saw the video's thumbnail come up in my Youtube history.
ahaha, nice catch! [link]
posted by crayz at 1:17 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
ahaha, nice catch! [link]
posted by crayz at 1:17 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
He misspelled honour. So Dave is probably American.
posted by srboisvert at 1:18 PM on March 8, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 1:18 PM on March 8, 2014 [9 favorites]
This woman is a professional pilot...
By the time she's in the first seat on a WestJet jet, she's probably doing OK -- but considering how fucking hard it is to become a captain, i find the idea that one would risk their livelihood after all that work by faking a stupid note to be kind of implausible.
Also, I've known or met too many people who thought this way to not take it seriously. If I have to allow for the idea it's a fake, I go with the stupid prank theory.
posted by lodurr at 1:23 PM on March 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
By the time she's in the first seat on a WestJet jet, she's probably doing OK -- but considering how fucking hard it is to become a captain, i find the idea that one would risk their livelihood after all that work by faking a stupid note to be kind of implausible.
Also, I've known or met too many people who thought this way to not take it seriously. If I have to allow for the idea it's a fake, I go with the stupid prank theory.
posted by lodurr at 1:23 PM on March 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
Proverbs 31 is kind of an interesting passage. I don't have a link to the comment handy, but someone in one story about this pointed out that particularly verses 10-30 are really not very supportive of "David's" case.
In fact, they seem to be about an industrious woman who runs her own business and is praised as an equal with men of her city*, because she 'loves the lord.'
--
*I'm way open to the idea I'm interpreting this aspect ethnocentrically, but she's definitely not being told to stay out of the "cockpit."
posted by lodurr at 1:28 PM on March 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
In fact, they seem to be about an industrious woman who runs her own business and is praised as an equal with men of her city*, because she 'loves the lord.'
--
*I'm way open to the idea I'm interpreting this aspect ethnocentrically, but she's definitely not being told to stay out of the "cockpit."
posted by lodurr at 1:28 PM on March 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
I feel mildly weepy after watching that the last video too. Why? It's not sad, it's not emotive.
I don't have a dog in the fight, I'm neither a misogynist nor feminist. My reactions should be "Ha! Fuck your troglodyte, served by Roberta Bondar! Loser!" But instead I feel like drinking herbal tea under a blanket. Jesus, I'm off to harden up by watching NFL highlights on Youtube.
QUIT PULLING AT MY HEART STRINGS WESTJET.
posted by Keith Talent at 1:32 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
I don't have a dog in the fight, I'm neither a misogynist nor feminist. My reactions should be "Ha! Fuck your troglodyte, served by Roberta Bondar! Loser!" But instead I feel like drinking herbal tea under a blanket. Jesus, I'm off to harden up by watching NFL highlights on Youtube.
QUIT PULLING AT MY HEART STRINGS WESTJET.
posted by Keith Talent at 1:32 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
It could be fake, but people drink on planes, and drunk people are capable of much bigger types of stupid than this.
Awesome video, it did make me tear up. All those badass, professional, quietly competent, tired-of-this-shit women! I love them!
posted by emjaybee at 1:51 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
Awesome video, it did make me tear up. All those badass, professional, quietly competent, tired-of-this-shit women! I love them!
posted by emjaybee at 1:51 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
"'cockpit,' (we now call it the flight deck as no cocks are required)"
You live and learn, David.
posted by travelwithcats at 1:57 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
You live and learn, David.
posted by travelwithcats at 1:57 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
having actually worked in business for decades, where a disproportionate number of my colleagues were women,* i was perhaps not as moved by this as I ought to be.**
--
*because someone's got to do all the work, and them men keep finding a way through that glass ceiling...
**see previous.
posted by lodurr at 1:57 PM on March 8, 2014
--
*because someone's got to do all the work, and them men keep finding a way through that glass ceiling...
**see previous.
posted by lodurr at 1:57 PM on March 8, 2014
It's so-o-o interesting that two examples of fake outrages are being so effectively used to nullify every example of true bigoted assholery for the benefit of our misogynous patriarchy that it even leaks onto MetaFilter.
Well, as a lifelong White Cis Male whoenjoyed received all the benefits of that status, I'd like to declare my unwillingness to let us return to the Every Day is International Man's Day tomorrow. "Men Are Pigs" is an unfair generalization, but "Most Men Are Pigs" is a simple truth. Women don't need support from men like me, but I am delighted to weaken the support under our Evil Overlords (an appropriately gendered term) as much as I can. I an NOT a Nice Guy (which I learned from past efforts to be one), I am simply deeply ashamed to be a Guy.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:34 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
Well, as a lifelong White Cis Male who
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:34 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
Wow. I'm not sure "Most Men Are Pigs" is either simple truth or, really, helpful to the discourse in any way. Ashamed to be a guy?
In any case, the women in this video are awesome and the pilot handled the situation with class and dignity.
posted by Justinian at 2:47 PM on March 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
In any case, the women in this video are awesome and the pilot handled the situation with class and dignity.
posted by Justinian at 2:47 PM on March 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
A few years ago I flew into Wellington NZ airport, which is well known as a windy and rough airport. On this day, it was particularly rough and the landing was very bumpy. After we stopped the captain, a female, came over the speakers and apologised for the roughness.
The guy in the seat beside me turned to me and said "Woman drivers" and rolled his eyes. I don't think I responded at all. Just looked at him in surprise... (wish I had thought of some witty and cutting remark).
So.... while this could be fake, I have no problem believing it is real... and that there are many males who have this type of attitude.
Love the video!!!!
posted by greenhornet at 2:51 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
The guy in the seat beside me turned to me and said "Woman drivers" and rolled his eyes. I don't think I responded at all. Just looked at him in surprise... (wish I had thought of some witty and cutting remark).
So.... while this could be fake, I have no problem believing it is real... and that there are many males who have this type of attitude.
Love the video!!!!
posted by greenhornet at 2:51 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
Another NOT A HOAX (even though reported on BuzzFeed). If you can go a day without witnessing a man being a sexist pig OR doing something to avoid offending sexist pigs, I can't.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:57 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:57 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
And Justinian, it took most of my 58 years to realize I SHOULD be "Ashamed to be a guy".
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:58 PM on March 8, 2014
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:58 PM on March 8, 2014
Let's just talk about how great women can be. We don't need to talk about men.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:00 PM on March 8, 2014 [44 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:00 PM on March 8, 2014 [44 favorites]
"Executive vice president of people and culture"
Is that Canadian for HR?
posted by madajb at 3:09 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
Is that Canadian for HR?
posted by madajb at 3:09 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
According to their website, the role is responsible for overseeing all aspects of WestJet's People (human resources, corporate real-estate and inflight services) department.
posted by arcticseal at 3:21 PM on March 8, 2014
posted by arcticseal at 3:21 PM on March 8, 2014
A couple of my friends could easily have been in that video -- one of them used to be a risk and capacity analyst at an airline and the other is an aerospace Engineer at Pratt & Whitney[*]. They're both smart, capable women and shockingly, neither of them have children to stay home with. So I guess they'll just have to content themselves with contributing to the world in another way. A shame that.
[*] The number of "it's not rocket science, but it could be!" and "you don't have to be a rocket scientist, but it helps" jokes you get to make when one of your friends is a rocket scientist is kind of awesome.
posted by jacquilynne at 3:21 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
[*] The number of "it's not rocket science, but it could be!" and "you don't have to be a rocket scientist, but it helps" jokes you get to make when one of your friends is a rocket scientist is kind of awesome.
posted by jacquilynne at 3:21 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
I expect that attitude should probably also be coupled with "If God wanted us to fly he would have given us wings!"
Should be. Often isn't.
Is this a thread to mention the comedienne whose gig at a club got cancelled because "the venue decided they don't want too many women on the bill"?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:23 PM on March 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
Should be. Often isn't.
Is this a thread to mention the comedienne whose gig at a club got cancelled because "the venue decided they don't want too many women on the bill"?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:23 PM on March 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
"I feel mildly weepy after watching that the last video too. Why? It's not sad, it's not emotive. "
The first time I saw USA Women's Soccer, in the Mia Hamm era, I cried. I love watching gymnastics and figure skating, but those women are all tiny and they're all teenagers. I love women's college basketball, but those women are all amazonian goddesses and all under 22.
The first time I saw a stadium cheering for Mia Hamm, et al, I got all choked up. Those are women with crows' feet and powerful thighs and stretch marks and toddlers and frizzy side-hair and sweaty underboobs who come in all different shapes and sizes and ages and they looked like me. They looked like my MOM. It was just amazing to see female athletes who were so regular-looking being celebrated by stadiums full of people.
It's happily much more common now to see female athletes celebrated as athletes, so it doesn't strike me with the same intensity, but I do remember how powerful that feeling was, and I think that's the same thing in this video. It's just so matter-of-fact that women, regular women, women who look like women you know, women with children, young women, old women, they all do cool jobs in aviation.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:29 PM on March 8, 2014 [29 favorites]
The first time I saw USA Women's Soccer, in the Mia Hamm era, I cried. I love watching gymnastics and figure skating, but those women are all tiny and they're all teenagers. I love women's college basketball, but those women are all amazonian goddesses and all under 22.
The first time I saw a stadium cheering for Mia Hamm, et al, I got all choked up. Those are women with crows' feet and powerful thighs and stretch marks and toddlers and frizzy side-hair and sweaty underboobs who come in all different shapes and sizes and ages and they looked like me. They looked like my MOM. It was just amazing to see female athletes who were so regular-looking being celebrated by stadiums full of people.
It's happily much more common now to see female athletes celebrated as athletes, so it doesn't strike me with the same intensity, but I do remember how powerful that feeling was, and I think that's the same thing in this video. It's just so matter-of-fact that women, regular women, women who look like women you know, women with children, young women, old women, they all do cool jobs in aviation.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:29 PM on March 8, 2014 [29 favorites]
(I do remember the first time I watch a high-level college women's basketball game and they all got so SWEATY and didn't care a bit ... that was when the only women's sports ever on TV were figure skating and gymnastics and sweating was not allowed and make-up was required ... these women were fierce and covered in sweat that was dripping off their un-made-up noses and their hair was functional, not pretty, and it was revelatory for me at the time to see women sweating like hogs and a crowd cheering like crazy about it.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:31 PM on March 8, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:31 PM on March 8, 2014 [11 favorites]
Including Bondar - and having her agree - is awesome. When Bondar went into space, there was a popular news clip of two male astronauts flipping her in the shuttle instead of tossing a coin. A token woman. And Bondar, who has never to my knowledge had a public relationship, had to fight to be allowed to have her mother greet her upon her return, whereas her male counterparts were allowed to have their wives and children greet them. The papers said she was doing housework on the shuttle and she was criticized for wearing rugby shirts and not wearing make up. Given that the Montreal Massacre was just 3 years earlier, she played a significant role in establishing that women belong anywhere. So it is very fitting that she took part in this. I was too afraid to go into science and engineering at that time - even though I stand up against discrimination now. Bondar helped open doors for others and she's awesome for being in this video and for understanding how important it is, even though it's backed by a company.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 4:20 PM on March 8, 2014 [38 favorites]
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 4:20 PM on March 8, 2014 [38 favorites]
Great, great video--I, too, really like that they had women from all different kinds of aviation jobs represented.
And given that I once had an old man literally stop and gawk at me with jaw agape in the Sam's Club parking lot when I was packing up the back of my station wagon with supplies for the farm because, in his words, "Well I have never seen a girl who could pack a car and move all those boxes around!"... I believe that the note is absolutely plausible if not also authentic.
(It wasn't even complicated packing, augh! It was a few dozen of cases of soda and giant packs of laundry detergent and cleaning supplies and, like, a pickaxe.)
posted by TwoStride at 4:32 PM on March 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
And given that I once had an old man literally stop and gawk at me with jaw agape in the Sam's Club parking lot when I was packing up the back of my station wagon with supplies for the farm because, in his words, "Well I have never seen a girl who could pack a car and move all those boxes around!"... I believe that the note is absolutely plausible if not also authentic.
(It wasn't even complicated packing, augh! It was a few dozen of cases of soda and giant packs of laundry detergent and cleaning supplies and, like, a pickaxe.)
posted by TwoStride at 4:32 PM on March 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
FWIW I was on this flight, sitting in the very same row as this asshole (it was an emergency exit row - 12). I remember smelling alcohol on someone's breath nearby. I'm guessing it was probably him. Completely unacceptable.
posted by ageispolis at 4:37 PM on March 8, 2014 [14 favorites]
posted by ageispolis at 4:37 PM on March 8, 2014 [14 favorites]
It is in fact a very common way of thinking among a great many people, most but not all of them men.
My mom used to be a truck driver, and the number of warehouse forklift foreman that had a shit fit about a woman backing a trailer into their dock would shock you.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:42 PM on March 8, 2014 [7 favorites]
My mom used to be a truck driver, and the number of warehouse forklift foreman that had a shit fit about a woman backing a trailer into their dock would shock you.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:42 PM on March 8, 2014 [7 favorites]
Fast action putting that video together, too!
Some might say it was a little *too* fast, considering the timing: International Women in Aviation day, March 8th.
No one is harmed by assuming this is real. No one was publicly named and shamed. Even if this is some bizarre publicity/attention stunt it has no target of malice other than the general, nebulous "shitty asshole people". And for every case that gets attention like this that might not be real, there's thousands where people just suffer silently.
This.
One part of my brain is irritated with the fact that it thinks this might be fake, but the other part tells it to shut up because who cares.
And this.
posted by Snowflake at 5:21 PM on March 8, 2014
Some might say it was a little *too* fast, considering the timing: International Women in Aviation day, March 8th.
No one is harmed by assuming this is real. No one was publicly named and shamed. Even if this is some bizarre publicity/attention stunt it has no target of malice other than the general, nebulous "shitty asshole people". And for every case that gets attention like this that might not be real, there's thousands where people just suffer silently.
This.
One part of my brain is irritated with the fact that it thinks this might be fake, but the other part tells it to shut up because who cares.
And this.
posted by Snowflake at 5:21 PM on March 8, 2014
Proverbs 31 is kind of an interesting passage. I don't have a link to the comment handy, but someone in one story about this pointed out that particularly verses 10-30 are really not very supportive of "David's" case.
In fact, they seem to be about an industrious woman who runs her own business and is praised as an equal with men of her city*, because she 'loves the lord.'
Yeah, Proverbs 31 is pretty much the opposite of 'stay home barefoot and pregnant.' I've even seen the interpretation that the first words, eshet chayil, which is generally translated as "a woman of valor" could also be read as eshet chayal, or "a soldier's wife" - in other words, he's out of the country and possibly gone for years, and yet she singlehandedly holds down the business, the household, and the politics without him.
Really classy response from WestJet.
posted by Mchelly at 5:59 PM on March 8, 2014
In fact, they seem to be about an industrious woman who runs her own business and is praised as an equal with men of her city*, because she 'loves the lord.'
Yeah, Proverbs 31 is pretty much the opposite of 'stay home barefoot and pregnant.' I've even seen the interpretation that the first words, eshet chayil, which is generally translated as "a woman of valor" could also be read as eshet chayal, or "a soldier's wife" - in other words, he's out of the country and possibly gone for years, and yet she singlehandedly holds down the business, the household, and the politics without him.
Really classy response from WestJet.
posted by Mchelly at 5:59 PM on March 8, 2014
I have a feeling that this video want a response per se to that particular note, but it's a good response in general, and particularly appropriate for International Woman's Day.
I also have to think the airline knows exactly who that guy is. Not to engage in revenge porn, but I fantasize of seeing some repercussions coming his way.
posted by happyroach at 6:50 PM on March 8, 2014
I also have to think the airline knows exactly who that guy is. Not to engage in revenge porn, but I fantasize of seeing some repercussions coming his way.
posted by happyroach at 6:50 PM on March 8, 2014
The fact that the video ends with the pilot who received the note is what made my eyes go from wet to downright weepy. Her smile and confidence really is the ultimate perfect response.
Thanks for posting this!
posted by flyingsquirrel at 7:35 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
Thanks for posting this!
posted by flyingsquirrel at 7:35 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
It sucks that Canadians don't really get to say this very often:
Fuck yeah Roberta Bondar!
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:47 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
Fuck yeah Roberta Bondar!
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:47 PM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
All those Canadian accents are making me homesick as hell.
posted by Space Coyote at 10:50 PM on March 8, 2014
posted by Space Coyote at 10:50 PM on March 8, 2014
>One part of my brain is irritated with the fact that it thinks this might be fake, but the other part tells it to shut up because who cares.
And vice-versa: fake stories of fake accusations being caught out. It has become increasingly difficult to know if a viral story is true or false. And the end result: all the stories are just potentially fake stories so who cares.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:18 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
And vice-versa: fake stories of fake accusations being caught out. It has become increasingly difficult to know if a viral story is true or false. And the end result: all the stories are just potentially fake stories so who cares.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:18 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
It could be fake, but people drink on planes, and drunk people are capable of much bigger types of stupid than this.
It is not for kings, O Lemuel,
it is not for kings to drink wine,
or for rulers to take strong drink,
lest they drink and forget what has been decreed
and pervert the rights of all the afflicted.
Proverbs 31. obv.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:11 AM on March 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
It is not for kings, O Lemuel,
it is not for kings to drink wine,
or for rulers to take strong drink,
lest they drink and forget what has been decreed
and pervert the rights of all the afflicted.
Proverbs 31. obv.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:11 AM on March 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
And vice-versa: fake stories of fake accusations being caught out.
Fake or at least inconclusive, which is what always puzzles me with these things. Person A says this bigoted thing happened to me, story blows up. Some media says they've found person B who might have done it. Person B denies doing it -- which they of course would do even if they had done it, since hardly anyone wants to look like a big fat asshat in public, not even bigots. Person A stands by their story. Internet peanut gallery immediately decides that person A is the liar, B is a hero to us all, and there's not a chance that a person C could have been involved.
There's of course a bunch of factors behind these things, including classism, but I wonder if what's known on reddit as the "second option bias" isn't a big part of it -- since most people will only have heard the first part of the story, deciding to go with with the second option gives you lots of opportunities to go "actually, you're wrong" and feel smug about it.
But this is a derail. Great video.
posted by effbot at 6:25 AM on March 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
Fake or at least inconclusive, which is what always puzzles me with these things. Person A says this bigoted thing happened to me, story blows up. Some media says they've found person B who might have done it. Person B denies doing it -- which they of course would do even if they had done it, since hardly anyone wants to look like a big fat asshat in public, not even bigots. Person A stands by their story. Internet peanut gallery immediately decides that person A is the liar, B is a hero to us all, and there's not a chance that a person C could have been involved.
There's of course a bunch of factors behind these things, including classism, but I wonder if what's known on reddit as the "second option bias" isn't a big part of it -- since most people will only have heard the first part of the story, deciding to go with with the second option gives you lots of opportunities to go "actually, you're wrong" and feel smug about it.
But this is a derail. Great video.
posted by effbot at 6:25 AM on March 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
I propose that, henceforth, we all refrain from publicly doubting the veracity of a non-anonymous testimonial unless accompanied by at least one specific, concrete reason for any such doubt. Furthermore, I propose that we all regard any such public doubts based on nothing but a feeling to be a form of concern trolling, to be immediately flagged and ignored.
If all that you (and by "you", I mean all present and future users of Metafilter, and moreover, the entire Internet) have is a feeling that some specific statement may not be true, let that be your impetus to conduct some research, to think about what's causing that feeling, and see if there's some actual evidence that something is awry, before telling the world about it. Because if you cannot find any such evidence, or cannot even be bothered to do that much, then your talking about your utterly unsupported "feelings" is a derail and a waste of our time.
A "feeling" is not an epistemological argument, and frankly, we don't need to hear about your damn feelings if that's all that you have to tell us. When you publicly insinuate that a real, actual, specific human being is a liar, you need to have an actual reason to say so.
posted by skoosh at 9:36 AM on March 9, 2014 [51 favorites]
If all that you (and by "you", I mean all present and future users of Metafilter, and moreover, the entire Internet) have is a feeling that some specific statement may not be true, let that be your impetus to conduct some research, to think about what's causing that feeling, and see if there's some actual evidence that something is awry, before telling the world about it. Because if you cannot find any such evidence, or cannot even be bothered to do that much, then your talking about your utterly unsupported "feelings" is a derail and a waste of our time.
A "feeling" is not an epistemological argument, and frankly, we don't need to hear about your damn feelings if that's all that you have to tell us. When you publicly insinuate that a real, actual, specific human being is a liar, you need to have an actual reason to say so.
posted by skoosh at 9:36 AM on March 9, 2014 [51 favorites]
And I say this as someone who used to make a second, unpaid career out of fact-checking/debunking incorrectly sourced quotes from friends on Facebook.
posted by skoosh at 9:39 AM on March 9, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by skoosh at 9:39 AM on March 9, 2014 [5 favorites]
I find it difficult to feel or believe this was a fake. Many people harbour prejudices and those that are outraged by women working, homosexuals, liberals, etc., are often the loudest and produce garbage notes like this.
posted by juiceCake at 10:44 AM on March 9, 2014
posted by juiceCake at 10:44 AM on March 9, 2014
the thing that's great is that even if it were a fake, that video is just awesome. It's not like other situations where people donate a bunch of money to the offended party or go on long internet rants/post to the offending party's Facebook or whatever. Not that those are always bad things, but the awesomeness of this video drowns out the original offending incident.
People should do more things like this.
posted by sweetkid at 11:05 AM on March 9, 2014 [3 favorites]
People should do more things like this.
posted by sweetkid at 11:05 AM on March 9, 2014 [3 favorites]
it took most of my 58 years to realize I SHOULD be "Ashamed to be a guy".
Why be ashamed of what you are? Should I be ashamed because I can be classified as any number of things (white, female, cisgender, hetero, American)? There's plenty to despise in any of my categorical assignations, but there's plenty to be proud of as well. Why not just strive to be the best representation of your category that you can be, whatever that category is?
Also, fuck yeah Roberta Bondar!
posted by palomar at 12:43 PM on March 9, 2014 [6 favorites]
Why be ashamed of what you are? Should I be ashamed because I can be classified as any number of things (white, female, cisgender, hetero, American)? There's plenty to despise in any of my categorical assignations, but there's plenty to be proud of as well. Why not just strive to be the best representation of your category that you can be, whatever that category is?
Also, fuck yeah Roberta Bondar!
posted by palomar at 12:43 PM on March 9, 2014 [6 favorites]
It's 2014 and the people who most reliably mention "political correctness":
1) are still universally opposed to it even though
2) they have a pretty fuzzy notion of what it is.
That's sort of astonishing to me, but it makes me feel youthful and clued in, too.
posted by Western Infidels at 3:42 PM on March 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
1) are still universally opposed to it even though
2) they have a pretty fuzzy notion of what it is.
That's sort of astonishing to me, but it makes me feel youthful and clued in, too.
posted by Western Infidels at 3:42 PM on March 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
I propose that, henceforth, we all refrain from publicly doubting the veracity of a non-anonymous testimonial unless accompanied by at least one specific, concrete reason for any such doubt. Furthermore, I propose that we all regard any such public doubts based on nothing but a feeling to be a form of concern trolling, to be immediately flagged and ignored.
I really like this suggestion, and hope that someone braver than I am will post it to MetaTalk.
posted by Salamandrous at 8:33 AM on March 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
I really like this suggestion, and hope that someone braver than I am will post it to MetaTalk.
posted by Salamandrous at 8:33 AM on March 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
That video makes me proud. Some of us just go to work everyday and earn our place in the economy. Many of us put up with some serious shit to be where we are, and most of us just chalk up those notes as, "poor dumb bastard" and keep on keeping the internet humming, and airplanes in the air, and kids educated and cars built.
Women belong everywhere, especially the men's restroom when the line is too long.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:52 PM on March 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Women belong everywhere, especially the men's restroom when the line is too long.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:52 PM on March 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Women belong everywhere, especially the men's restroom when the line is too long.
YEARS ago I was an usher at an off-Broadway show, and we used to always have the huge-lines-at-the-ladies-room-and-nothing-at-the-gents thing. So they'd send me up there about three minutes before intermission ended to first scout whether the mens room was clear, and then encourage women to use it while I stood guard so we could get the line moving. I always took great joy in rallying women to use the men's room by telling them they could "strike a blow for womens' equality!"
...I was only 25. My thinking was simpler then.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:55 PM on March 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
YEARS ago I was an usher at an off-Broadway show, and we used to always have the huge-lines-at-the-ladies-room-and-nothing-at-the-gents thing. So they'd send me up there about three minutes before intermission ended to first scout whether the mens room was clear, and then encourage women to use it while I stood guard so we could get the line moving. I always took great joy in rallying women to use the men's room by telling them they could "strike a blow for womens' equality!"
...I was only 25. My thinking was simpler then.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:55 PM on March 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
My first impression whenever anyone automatically doubts a story of assholish behavior by a customer towards an employee is that that person has, if not led a sheltered life, at least not spent much time dealing with the public in the course of their work.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:25 PM on March 10, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:25 PM on March 10, 2014 [8 favorites]
It was cool they squeezed Roberta Bondar in there. She is probably one of Canada's most interesting living people.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:47 PM on March 10, 2014
posted by KokuRyu at 7:47 PM on March 10, 2014
The response is good, because the authenticity of the note doesn't even really matter. The gender balance in the aviation industry is so lopsided that this video would have been just as awesome and just as appropriate if the note had never existed.
Kudos to Westjet for showing appreciation for its employees.
posted by schmod at 10:18 AM on March 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Kudos to Westjet for showing appreciation for its employees.
posted by schmod at 10:18 AM on March 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Cliched, yet once again appropriate: "Christ, what an asshole".
posted by josher71 at 10:28 AM on March 11, 2014
posted by josher71 at 10:28 AM on March 11, 2014
I dunno, guys. I reckon it will turn out that this note was written by a unicorn. Sorry, no evidence for that, it's just my gut feeling.
posted by yoink at 10:24 AM on March 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by yoink at 10:24 AM on March 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
...written by a unicorn.
That would be extremely disturbing.
posted by lodurr at 6:07 AM on March 14, 2014
That would be extremely disturbing.
posted by lodurr at 6:07 AM on March 14, 2014
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posted by infini at 11:33 AM on March 8, 2014 [2 favorites]