some kind of unholy alt-lit creep triumvirate
November 26, 2014 12:23 PM Subscribe
My Salami Heart: Reflections on the Convergence of Art, Generosity, Success, Sex, and Law by Nick Kocz.
i thought this essay started out really good :(
posted by thug unicorn at 3:14 PM on November 26, 2014
posted by thug unicorn at 3:14 PM on November 26, 2014
the examples of "great writing " described in this piece pretty nicely sum up what a sad, alternative literary universe MFA programs seem to foster. I hate hate hate cutesy-wootsy writing like thst story of the man who peddles human hearts from.his trunk, or the salami heart fiction story written by the author. I find that twee, cloyingly surreal stuff to be so annoying.
posted by jayder at 3:27 PM on November 26, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by jayder at 3:27 PM on November 26, 2014 [4 favorites]
Virginia Tech’s MFA program, founded in 2005, ranks within the nation’s top 25 programs.
Writer's workshop writers worship writer's workshops.
posted by charlie don't surf at 3:57 PM on November 26, 2014 [4 favorites]
Writer's workshop writers worship writer's workshops.
posted by charlie don't surf at 3:57 PM on November 26, 2014 [4 favorites]
I find that twee, cloyingly surreal stuff to be so annoying
Fair enough. Although it seems odd to pin the blame for that on MFA programs when they're routinely abused for forcing everyone to write drearily kitchen-sinky stuff that is thinly-veiled autobiography.
The problem with "oh my god what hath the MFA wrought" arguments, generally, is not only that there is so little agreement about what "typical MFA prose is" (get anyone going on the subject and you'll immediately find that most of their favorite authors went through MFA programs--because basically everyone does nowadays--but somehow they're all exceptions that prove the rule), it's also that the hypothesis is essentially untestable; you can't randomly assign groups of young, budding writers to MFA programs and randomly restrain others from attending them. And in the absence of such a research program you're left with nothing but empty assertion. Although you certainly do have an awful lot of that.
posted by yoink at 4:00 PM on November 26, 2014 [3 favorites]
Fair enough. Although it seems odd to pin the blame for that on MFA programs when they're routinely abused for forcing everyone to write drearily kitchen-sinky stuff that is thinly-veiled autobiography.
The problem with "oh my god what hath the MFA wrought" arguments, generally, is not only that there is so little agreement about what "typical MFA prose is" (get anyone going on the subject and you'll immediately find that most of their favorite authors went through MFA programs--because basically everyone does nowadays--but somehow they're all exceptions that prove the rule), it's also that the hypothesis is essentially untestable; you can't randomly assign groups of young, budding writers to MFA programs and randomly restrain others from attending them. And in the absence of such a research program you're left with nothing but empty assertion. Although you certainly do have an awful lot of that.
posted by yoink at 4:00 PM on November 26, 2014 [3 favorites]
Writer's workshop writers worship writer's workshops.
That's too sonorous! You're one of them!
posted by Iridic at 4:16 PM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
That's too sonorous! You're one of them!
posted by Iridic at 4:16 PM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
Alliteration am awesome. Me rite gud.
I am amidst them, but not of them.
posted by charlie don't surf at 5:01 PM on November 26, 2014
I am amidst them, but not of them.
posted by charlie don't surf at 5:01 PM on November 26, 2014
the examples of "great writing " described in this piece pretty nicely sum up what a sad, alternative literary universe MFA programs seem to foster. I hate hate hate cutesy-wootsy writing like thst story of the man who peddles human hearts from.his trunk, or the salami heart fiction story written by the author. I find that twee, cloyingly surreal stuff to be so annoying.
"So Noah is a dog. Specifically, a Pointer. But! He's lost his hands! He's a Pointer -- who can't point."
(from The Daytrippers)
posted by Sebmojo at 5:53 PM on November 26, 2014
"So Noah is a dog. Specifically, a Pointer. But! He's lost his hands! He's a Pointer -- who can't point."
(from The Daytrippers)
posted by Sebmojo at 5:53 PM on November 26, 2014
Top Of The Muffin to You! Or, The Paranoid Style in Arguments Against The Fiction MFA System
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 5:59 PM on November 26, 2014
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 5:59 PM on November 26, 2014
I find that twee, cloyingly surreal stuff to be so annoying.
Yup. That and the Raymond Carver / Ernest Hemingway "spareness" and "realism" (which is anything but) and rigid showing-not-telling and little "epiphanies" at the end.
"Literary fiction" has been mostly branded as this kind of MFA-style writing. Ugh. That's what's in the New Yorker 90% of the time or in Harper's or in the Paris Review.
--
get anyone going on the subject and you'll immediately find that most of their favorite authors went through MFA programs
Not mine! I don't really like many contemporary and/or living authors who might be categorized in literary fiction. But of the ones I do, I don't think any have MFAs. Examples: Edward St. Aubyn, Adelle Waldman, Ian McEwan, Dave Eggers, Haruki Murakami.
posted by shivohum at 6:56 PM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
Yup. That and the Raymond Carver / Ernest Hemingway "spareness" and "realism" (which is anything but) and rigid showing-not-telling and little "epiphanies" at the end.
"Literary fiction" has been mostly branded as this kind of MFA-style writing. Ugh. That's what's in the New Yorker 90% of the time or in Harper's or in the Paris Review.
--
get anyone going on the subject and you'll immediately find that most of their favorite authors went through MFA programs
Not mine! I don't really like many contemporary and/or living authors who might be categorized in literary fiction. But of the ones I do, I don't think any have MFAs. Examples: Edward St. Aubyn, Adelle Waldman, Ian McEwan, Dave Eggers, Haruki Murakami.
posted by shivohum at 6:56 PM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
Nick Kocz missed his calling ... he has a hilarious name for someone who does manscaping/pubic grooming.
posted by jayder at 7:29 PM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by jayder at 7:29 PM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
I think there's something ironic about Elizabeth Ellen being kicked out of an anthology entitled 25 Provocative Writers for writing something too provocative.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 9:19 PM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 9:19 PM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
...is that what we want from our literature? Meek, inoffensive shit?
Well, based on available evidence...
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 9:53 PM on November 26, 2014
Well, based on available evidence...
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 9:53 PM on November 26, 2014
I assume it's a deliberate style, but for my tastes this essay badly needed an editor with a sharp eye. The amount of words used to make the point was for me excessive -- though again, that's a matter of taste, not some absolute rule.
I'm not so sure there is a clearly identifiable MFA style, but it was interesting how embedded he seems to be in a very particular community of writers that is connected to the MFA and workshop world, now continuing in form through Facebook and publishing controversies.
posted by Dip Flash at 10:46 PM on November 26, 2014
I'm not so sure there is a clearly identifiable MFA style, but it was interesting how embedded he seems to be in a very particular community of writers that is connected to the MFA and workshop world, now continuing in form through Facebook and publishing controversies.
posted by Dip Flash at 10:46 PM on November 26, 2014
Wait, are you all really critiquing MFA style rather than discussing all the accusations of misogyny and rape (statutory and otherwise) made towards Sherl, Dierks, and Lin? Zuh?!?
What the everloving shit.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:05 AM on November 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
What the everloving shit.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:05 AM on November 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
Wait, are you all really critiquing MFA style rather than discussing all the accusations of misogyny and rape (statutory and otherwise) made towards Sherl, Dierks, and Lin?
He spends gazillions of words dithering about and talking about himself before finally talking about the Sherl accusations and then only in general terms (statutory rape is not mentioned, for example). So yes, style is important because in this case the style is badly impeding what appears to have been meant as the central message.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:06 AM on November 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
He spends gazillions of words dithering about and talking about himself before finally talking about the Sherl accusations and then only in general terms (statutory rape is not mentioned, for example). So yes, style is important because in this case the style is badly impeding what appears to have been meant as the central message.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:06 AM on November 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Joseph Gurl: Wait, are you all really critiquing MFA style rather than discussing all the accusations of misogyny and rape (statutory and otherwise) made towards Sherl, Dierks, and Lin? Zuh?!?
After reading Kocz's essay and addendum I went and read about Sherl, and I don't really know where to start. One essay by a victim of his had me in knots of sadness and anger. It's an issue it's hard to think about, let alone discuss. MFA writing is easier to write about, though I agree that this was maybe not the right thread to get into that discussion.
posted by Kattullus at 8:26 AM on November 27, 2014
After reading Kocz's essay and addendum I went and read about Sherl, and I don't really know where to start. One essay by a victim of his had me in knots of sadness and anger. It's an issue it's hard to think about, let alone discuss. MFA writing is easier to write about, though I agree that this was maybe not the right thread to get into that discussion.
posted by Kattullus at 8:26 AM on November 27, 2014
Wait, are you all really critiquing MFA style rather than discussing all the accusations of misogyny and rape (statutory and otherwise) made towards Sherl, Dierks, and Lin? Zuh?!?
What the everloving shit.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:05 AM on November 27
I note with some amusement that you had nothing to say about the accusations of rape and misogyny either.
what the everloving shit.
posted by jayder at 6:11 PM on November 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
What the everloving shit.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:05 AM on November 27
I note with some amusement that you had nothing to say about the accusations of rape and misogyny either.
what the everloving shit.
posted by jayder at 6:11 PM on November 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
The accusations in question are in a bit specifically labelled "Addendum" so I think it is reasonable to take them not as the central message.
posted by LogicalDash at 6:55 PM on November 27, 2014
posted by LogicalDash at 6:55 PM on November 27, 2014
Jayder: sorry I was unclear. I'm not outraged or critical, just surprised. This place usually goes bananas for that kind of thing.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:02 PM on November 27, 2014
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:02 PM on November 27, 2014
(More clearifieder: I see why my comment could be read as hypocritical, but it wasn't intended as a criticism of the direction of this thread but rather as a expression of surprise given how many long, long threads on Metafilter have resulted from posts about rape, misogyny, and the like.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:11 AM on November 28, 2014
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:11 AM on November 28, 2014
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Bah, I'm romanticizing.
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:06 PM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]