Making himself a moot point
January 21, 2015 2:14 PM Subscribe
> be moot
> run 4chan for 11.5 years
> lack the stamina to see out the full 12 years and qualify for pension & benefits
> row row fight the powah
top kek
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:18 PM on January 21, 2015 [22 favorites]
> run 4chan for 11.5 years
> lack the stamina to see out the full 12 years and qualify for pension & benefits
> row row fight the powah
top kek
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:18 PM on January 21, 2015 [22 favorites]
Anyone care to post a mirror or a Pastebin of the text so I don't have 4chan showing up in my browser history?
posted by komara at 2:19 PM on January 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by komara at 2:19 PM on January 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
News
THE NEXT CHAPTER by moot - 1/21/15 @ 11:00AM EST #
I founded 4chan eleven and a half years ago at the age of 15, and after more than a decade of service, I've decided it's time for me to move on.
4chan has faced numerous challenges over the years, including how to continuously satisfy a community of millions, and ensure the site has the human, technical, and financial resources to continue operating. But the biggest hurdle it's had to overcome is myself. As 4chan's sole administrator, decision maker, and keeper of most of its institutional knowledge, I've come to represent an uncomfortably large single point of failure.
I've spent the past two years working behind the scenes to address these challenges, and to provide 4chan with the foundation it needs to survive me by bolstering its finances, strengthening its infrastructure, and expanding and empowering its team of volunteers. And for the most part, I've succeeded. The site isn't in danger of going under financially any time soon, and it's as fast and stable as ever thanks to continued development and recent server upgrades. Team 4chan is also at its largest, and while I've still been calling the shots, I've delegated many of my responsibilities to a handful of trusted volunteers, most of whom have served the site for years.
That foundation will now be put to the ultimate test, as today I'm retiring as 4chan's administrator. From a user's perspective, nothing should change. A few senior volunteers—including 4chan's lead developer, managing moderator, and server administrator—have stepped up to ensure a smooth transition over the coming weeks.
I'll need time away to decompress and reflect, but I look forward to one day returning to 4chan as its Admin Emeritus or just another Anonymous, and also writing more about my experience running 4chan on my personal blog. The journey has been marked by highs and lows, surprises and disappointments, but ultimately immense satisfaction. I'm humbled to have had the privilege of both founding and presiding over what is easily one of the greatest communities to ever grace the Web. It was truly an honor to serve as 4chan's founding administrator, and I look forward to seeing what the next decade holds for the site.
On to the next chapter,
–moot
mootnote: I plan to dedicate this Friday afternoon (ET) to host a livestreamed Q&A session, where I'll hold court with the community one last time. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube page, and keep an eye out for a global message the day of. As always, I welcome and read all of my e-mails, and you may contact me personally at moot@4chan.org.
Eleven and a half years of 4chan, in numbers:
42,176,061,890 Total pageviews
1,771,091,423 Total posts
1,071,189,182 Total visitors
620,125,147 Monthly pageviews
21,128,887 Daily pageviews
20,360,487 Monthly visitors
1,223,807 Daily visitors
2,838 Terabytes per month
105 Volunteers
63 Boards
1 Administrator
posted by I-baLL at 2:20 PM on January 21, 2015 [14 favorites]
42,176,061,890 Total pageviews
mother of god
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:21 PM on January 21, 2015 [25 favorites]
mother of god
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:21 PM on January 21, 2015 [25 favorites]
I think moot is a pretty cool guy. Eh runs 4chan and doesnt afraid of anything.
posted by entropicamericana at 2:22 PM on January 21, 2015 [36 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 2:22 PM on January 21, 2015 [36 favorites]
Now if only the person running 8chan would do the same.
posted by oceanjesse at 2:23 PM on January 21, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by oceanjesse at 2:23 PM on January 21, 2015 [11 favorites]
42,176,061,890 Total pageviews
and no dubs
posted by Spatch at 2:24 PM on January 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
and no dubs
posted by Spatch at 2:24 PM on January 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Off to mootxico.
posted by dragoon at 2:25 PM on January 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by dragoon at 2:25 PM on January 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
42,176,061,890 Total pageviews
and
2,838 Terabytes per month
Seems kinda off. Shouldn't the page view numbers be higher if you're displaying enough images to go through 2,838 Terabytes per month
posted by I-baLL at 2:26 PM on January 21, 2015
and
2,838 Terabytes per month
Seems kinda off. Shouldn't the page view numbers be higher if you're displaying enough images to go through 2,838 Terabytes per month
posted by I-baLL at 2:26 PM on January 21, 2015
This thread is uncannily similar to the state of the Hacker News thread, as of three hours ago... Right down to the request for a repost of the announcement and the 'mootxico' joke.
posted by kaibutsu at 2:29 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by kaibutsu at 2:29 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Link?
posted by I-baLL at 2:30 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by I-baLL at 2:30 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
i'm going to be fascinated with what he has to say about all this in a couple of years when he gets a bit of space. i find myself curious if this was a long time coming or if the stepped up harassment after xoxofest had anything to do with it.
posted by nadawi at 2:32 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 2:32 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
This thread is uncannily similar to the state of the Hacker News thread, as of three hours ago... Right down to the request for a repost of the announcement and the 'mootxico' joke.
Yeah, can you post a mirror or pastebin of the post so that I don't have Hacker News showing up in my browser history?
posted by Going To Maine at 2:35 PM on January 21, 2015 [52 favorites]
Yeah, can you post a mirror or pastebin of the post so that I don't have Hacker News showing up in my browser history?
posted by Going To Maine at 2:35 PM on January 21, 2015 [52 favorites]
Peter is leaving Never Never Land?
posted by doctor tough love at 2:35 PM on January 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by doctor tough love at 2:35 PM on January 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
I remember the big build-up to the 1M GET, and looking briefly at the lurkmore wiki, they're past 500M now. There was always a lot of shit, but once in a while 4chan grew some incredible flowers.
posted by chimaera at 2:45 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by chimaera at 2:45 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
(The HN discussion is at 180+ comments now, so didn't seem super useful to post the link for comparison, but here you go.) Mootxico. Repost.
posted by kaibutsu at 2:47 PM on January 21, 2015
posted by kaibutsu at 2:47 PM on January 21, 2015
good night, sweet prince
posted by philip-random at 2:49 PM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 2:49 PM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
That point he mentions about being the sole keeper of the site's institutional knowledge is something that hadn't occurred to me.
Godspeed and LURK MOAR, Mootles.
posted by comealongpole at 2:50 PM on January 21, 2015
Godspeed and LURK MOAR, Mootles.
posted by comealongpole at 2:50 PM on January 21, 2015
Poole's closed.
posted by ostranenie at 2:55 PM on January 21, 2015 [26 favorites]
posted by ostranenie at 2:55 PM on January 21, 2015 [26 favorites]
I'm always so grateful than when reading a 4chan or reddit-related post, I have no clue what most of the comments mean.
posted by jessssse at 3:04 PM on January 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by jessssse at 3:04 PM on January 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
The big unanswered question: Is Moot really a catgirl running around only in a T-shirt and panties?
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 3:10 PM on January 21, 2015
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 3:10 PM on January 21, 2015
The big unanswered question: Is Moot really a catgirl running around only in a T-shirt and panties?
Of course. We all are. Weren't you given yours when you first logged on to the internet?
posted by Jimbob at 3:14 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Of course. We all are. Weren't you given yours when you first logged on to the internet?
posted by Jimbob at 3:14 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
All of my Issues With the “Goodnight Moot” Bedroom.
posted by Elmore at 3:19 PM on January 21, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Elmore at 3:19 PM on January 21, 2015 [9 favorites]
wintermoot
posted by Smart Dalek at 3:23 PM on January 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Smart Dalek at 3:23 PM on January 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
Incognito tabs will keep stuff out of history whether 4chan or HN
posted by Mitheral at 3:24 PM on January 21, 2015
posted by Mitheral at 3:24 PM on January 21, 2015
lel
posted by lalochezia at 3:27 PM on January 21, 2015
posted by lalochezia at 3:27 PM on January 21, 2015
But it still shows up in proxy logs...
posted by PROD_TPSL at 3:50 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by PROD_TPSL at 3:50 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
But it still shows up in proxy logs...
Good luck, I'm behind seven proxies.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:57 PM on January 21, 2015 [27 favorites]
Good luck, I'm behind seven proxies.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:57 PM on January 21, 2015 [27 favorites]
This thread is uncannily similar to the state of the Hacker News thread, as of three hours ago... Right down to the request for a repost of the announcement and the 'mootxico' joke.
All that's missing is moot showing up to comment.
posted by indubitable at 4:13 PM on January 21, 2015
All that's missing is moot showing up to comment.
posted by indubitable at 4:13 PM on January 21, 2015
Can somebody mirror or pastebin this thread? I don't want metafilter showing up in my history.
posted by symbioid at 4:30 PM on January 21, 2015 [36 favorites]
posted by symbioid at 4:30 PM on January 21, 2015 [36 favorites]
I remember hanging out in some SA-related IRC channel ca. 12 years ago and seeing someone who may or may not have been moot key in something like "hurp de durp I know, let's start a version of 2ch for white people". I felt a combination of elation and the gut-churn of fear and inevitability at that time, and still feel the same today, everytime that metastasized goon project comes up in the news.
Count me as impressed. Bon voyage, moot, hope the cancer doesn't get you.
posted by BrunoLatourFanclub at 4:30 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Count me as impressed. Bon voyage, moot, hope the cancer doesn't get you.
posted by BrunoLatourFanclub at 4:30 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
it still feels wrong to me that it was 11 years ago i found that stupid website.
just breaks my brain that the internet then was pretty much already the internet now, but slower, and some of it still looked really 90s more often.
posted by emptythought at 4:43 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
just breaks my brain that the internet then was pretty much already the internet now, but slower, and some of it still looked really 90s more often.
posted by emptythought at 4:43 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
If nothing else it had fewer videos.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 5:06 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 5:06 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
bring back w.t. snacks
posted by Sternmeyer at 5:15 PM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Sternmeyer at 5:15 PM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
All told I think it's pretty impressive how well moot handled running 4chan. That thing must have felt like mail ordering a funny gorilla costume and having an actual ten foot ape show up on your doorstep, except it has really bigoted sharks instead of arms.
> All that's missing is moot showing up to comment.
>this
Someone buy him an account, I think he'd fit in.
posted by lucidium at 5:26 PM on January 21, 2015 [25 favorites]
> All that's missing is moot showing up to comment.
>this
Someone buy him an account, I think he'd fit in.
posted by lucidium at 5:26 PM on January 21, 2015 [25 favorites]
MeFi's Own Moot
Talk about name-squatting... (registered here before 4chan existed, made one comment near the end of '03)
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:42 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
Talk about name-squatting... (registered here before 4chan existed, made one comment near the end of '03)
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:42 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
Anybody else herd u liek mudkips?
posted by Going To Maine at 5:58 PM on January 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 5:58 PM on January 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?
posted by Monkey0nCrack at 6:00 PM on January 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Monkey0nCrack at 6:00 PM on January 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
happy retirement, tom from myspace. rip in pieces, chinese claymation site
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:11 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:11 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
metafilter: it has really bigoted sharks instead of arms.
posted by localroger at 6:36 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by localroger at 6:36 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
During the first XOXO I was walking around Portland with a couple of friends who knew moot, and we ran into him on the sidewalk (he was speaking there). He gave each of them a hug and then saw me there, shrugged, and hugged me too.
posted by danb at 6:38 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by danb at 6:38 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
I just want 4chan to survive Reddit. It's better, crazier, funnier, more important and, bizarrely, has better moderation. Someday we'll dance on Conde Nasts grave together moot my friend!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:40 PM on January 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:40 PM on January 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
Won't somebody please think about the lulz?
posted by Sphinx at 6:57 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Sphinx at 6:57 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Moot is asleep. Post ponies!
I originally visited 4chan just to get some nice wallpaper for my workstation. Parts of 4chan are really nice. Parts require eye-bleach.
I love you, Moot.
posted by SPrintF at 7:50 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
I originally visited 4chan just to get some nice wallpaper for my workstation. Parts of 4chan are really nice. Parts require eye-bleach.
I love you, Moot.
posted by SPrintF at 7:50 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
This thread is uncannily similar to the state of the Hacker News thread, as of three hours ago... Right down to the request for a repost of the announcement and the 'mootxico' joke.
I don't know why my brain went to "What? Paul Graham is retiring from public web life!?" but I was out on the front page and cmd-f'ing "hacker" before realizing how badly I parsed that sentence.
posted by mph at 7:58 PM on January 21, 2015
I don't know why my brain went to "What? Paul Graham is retiring from public web life!?" but I was out on the front page and cmd-f'ing "hacker" before realizing how badly I parsed that sentence.
posted by mph at 7:58 PM on January 21, 2015
He'll be back. And he will save 4chan from whatever mess him leaving will create.
Don't forget, you're there forever.
posted by clorox at 8:42 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Don't forget, you're there forever.
posted by clorox at 8:42 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
well I guess now we have a list of which Mefites are familiar enough with 4chan to drop memes
[USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST]
posted by kagredon at 10:10 PM on January 21, 2015 [11 favorites]
[USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST]
posted by kagredon at 10:10 PM on January 21, 2015 [11 favorites]
Chan culture is the most vacuous and toxic phenomenon to have emerged out of the Internet since its inception. I have a long rant about its implications in me, but I don't want to get angry right now. Suffice to say, fuck that guy.
posted by jklaiho at 10:54 PM on January 21, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by jklaiho at 10:54 PM on January 21, 2015 [7 favorites]
(No, moot is not directly responsible for "chan culture" as such, but treating him as some sort of folk hero for founding and running FUCKING 4CHAN is preposterous.)
posted by jklaiho at 11:13 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by jklaiho at 11:13 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
>implying moot wouldn't agree with you entirely
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:57 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:57 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
If he'd agreed, he would've tried harder to change it, or have shut down 4chan. But that it was founded by a fifteen year old dude pretty clearly shaped its culture.
posted by MartinWisse at 12:28 AM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by MartinWisse at 12:28 AM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Spend a few months on every board before you anoint yourself with the knowledge of chan culture.
Or as has often been said, lurkmoar.
posted by Braeburn at 5:47 AM on January 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Or as has often been said, lurkmoar.
posted by Braeburn at 5:47 AM on January 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
(No, moot is not directly responsible for "chan culture" as such, but treating him as some sort of folk hero for founding and running FUCKING 4CHAN is preposterous.)
I don't know that moot is a folk hero, but he's certainly a historic figure. When that book comes out, it'll be a heck of a read.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:49 AM on January 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't know that moot is a folk hero, but he's certainly a historic figure. When that book comes out, it'll be a heck of a read.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:49 AM on January 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
/b/ =/= 4chan
posted by Twain Device at 5:59 AM on January 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Twain Device at 5:59 AM on January 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
If he'd agreed, he would've tried harder to change it, or have shut down 4chan. But that it was founded by a fifteen year old dude pretty clearly shaped its culture.
At the risk of sounding needlessly curt and pretentious, especially since I don't have the time for a more full response: 1) I was specifically responding to the idea that moot is a folk hero, which he most certainly would not agree with, and 2) 4chan has been consistently marked by tension between mootles and things like /pol/ and what /r9k/ wound up becoming. It's interesting to see the kinds of things which moot had been trying to make work, e.g. Canvas and what /r9k/ had been intended to be, but which never caught on.
Either way, 4chan is a very big place. There is no single 4chan culture. Some parts of 4chan are hideous; others are not. The trademark nastiness varies wildly among each subboard. I'm not saying that 4chan is secretly awesome and that you should love it, but rather that 4chan is not /b/ and 4chan is not /pol/. You can go to /tg/ and have extremely civilized conversations about tabletop gaming, and the GamerGators have never been welcome there. And then there are places like /p/, where anodyne "wut camera is good?" threads are interspersed with genuinely fun and interesting things like live photo editing with Ryonen and 5hoe.
The point being, 4chan has been a fascinating online phenomenon, in ways good, bad, and neutral. It's not fair to moot, nor even really accurate, to pretend that he's been fine with all the ways in which it has been bad. This is especially true with regard to the rise of /pol/ and 8chan, where a huge part of that story is his pushback.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:37 AM on January 22, 2015 [15 favorites]
At the risk of sounding needlessly curt and pretentious, especially since I don't have the time for a more full response: 1) I was specifically responding to the idea that moot is a folk hero, which he most certainly would not agree with, and 2) 4chan has been consistently marked by tension between mootles and things like /pol/ and what /r9k/ wound up becoming. It's interesting to see the kinds of things which moot had been trying to make work, e.g. Canvas and what /r9k/ had been intended to be, but which never caught on.
Either way, 4chan is a very big place. There is no single 4chan culture. Some parts of 4chan are hideous; others are not. The trademark nastiness varies wildly among each subboard. I'm not saying that 4chan is secretly awesome and that you should love it, but rather that 4chan is not /b/ and 4chan is not /pol/. You can go to /tg/ and have extremely civilized conversations about tabletop gaming, and the GamerGators have never been welcome there. And then there are places like /p/, where anodyne "wut camera is good?" threads are interspersed with genuinely fun and interesting things like live photo editing with Ryonen and 5hoe.
The point being, 4chan has been a fascinating online phenomenon, in ways good, bad, and neutral. It's not fair to moot, nor even really accurate, to pretend that he's been fine with all the ways in which it has been bad. This is especially true with regard to the rise of /pol/ and 8chan, where a huge part of that story is his pushback.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:37 AM on January 22, 2015 [15 favorites]
brix were shat.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 7:08 AM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 7:08 AM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
in conclusion, 4chan is a land of contrasts
posted by entropicamericana at 7:51 AM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 7:51 AM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I had enough incredibly shitty experiences with large, organised groups of people from 4Chan, back in the days of LJ etc, that I really don't care that some parts of the site were apparently filled with gumdrops and rainbows -- any more that I care that some of the people posting under #gamergate were genuinely trying to improve games journalism ethics or 'ask questions' about feminism.
At least back then, both they, we, and moot knew what it meant when someone was here 'from 4chan'. So fuck 4chan and fuck the guy who founded and ran it.
posted by Drexen at 9:23 AM on January 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
At least back then, both they, we, and moot knew what it meant when someone was here 'from 4chan'. So fuck 4chan and fuck the guy who founded and ran it.
posted by Drexen at 9:23 AM on January 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
duckroll.jpeg
posted by Twain Device at 11:41 AM on January 22, 2015
posted by Twain Device at 11:41 AM on January 22, 2015
a few years back, I made a point of tracking 4chan for a while, particularly /b/, mainly because a friend's teenage son was spending a pile of time there, so I decided, rather than just be critical of what he was doing with his time, maybe I should actually investigate it.
What I found was, of course, appalling ... but.
Well, it's hard to really explore the "but" without taking a very long time. Except to say that it was clearly a community, and like all communities, complex (with all manner of inner secrets, codes, buzzwords etc), so as much as a bunch of it made me want to dismiss it all as Drexen just did ...
fuck 4chan and fuck the guy who founded and ran it
I just can't. Because, if nothing else, what's going on in and around /b/ is a whole lotta truth. Not facts-and-arguments truth, but the truth about how certain people really feel about certain things and, more complexly, how this truth comes out in the darker edges of their humor (and don't kid yourself -- most of the really extreme stuff getting posted in /b/ is just hoping, however misguidedly, for a laugh). I mean, these are young people, mostly male, who do not have fully evolved empathic centers, who are mostly just hurling shit around ... because they can. It's a tiny bit of power and yeah, they're abusing it. Welcome to Power.
They'll grow out of it, most of them anyway, as it appears that young Mr. Moot is in the process of doing.
posted by philip-random at 12:53 PM on January 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
What I found was, of course, appalling ... but.
Well, it's hard to really explore the "but" without taking a very long time. Except to say that it was clearly a community, and like all communities, complex (with all manner of inner secrets, codes, buzzwords etc), so as much as a bunch of it made me want to dismiss it all as Drexen just did ...
fuck 4chan and fuck the guy who founded and ran it
I just can't. Because, if nothing else, what's going on in and around /b/ is a whole lotta truth. Not facts-and-arguments truth, but the truth about how certain people really feel about certain things and, more complexly, how this truth comes out in the darker edges of their humor (and don't kid yourself -- most of the really extreme stuff getting posted in /b/ is just hoping, however misguidedly, for a laugh). I mean, these are young people, mostly male, who do not have fully evolved empathic centers, who are mostly just hurling shit around ... because they can. It's a tiny bit of power and yeah, they're abusing it. Welcome to Power.
They'll grow out of it, most of them anyway, as it appears that young Mr. Moot is in the process of doing.
posted by philip-random at 12:53 PM on January 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
They'll grow out of it, most of them anyway
This seems like optimism, rather than realism.
posted by grubi at 1:29 PM on January 22, 2015
This seems like optimism, rather than realism.
posted by grubi at 1:29 PM on January 22, 2015
I appreciate what you say, philip-random, but I also want to point out that I and my friends -- along with countless other people -- experienced the following things and more with no provocation other than catching the attention of troll communities on 4chan specifically and their allies elsewhere:
* Doxing
* Outing
* Invasion of private communities and accounts and publication of private, intensely personal messages
* Destruction or dismantling of communities of often vulnerable, marginalised people
* Relentless harassment and stalking
* Intense, deeply personal, sustained mockery
* Lies being disseminated and presented as proven.
* A thousand insidious tactics to undermine and destroy the self-confidence of people even as they slid into crisis specifically because of what these people were doing, to gaslight and mock them for even trying to defend themselves, to react in any way, to try to hide, or not to react; to villify them, to convince them that they were crazy and utterly worthless, and that it was impossible to in any way reason or appease the attackers.
* Threats.
* Every kind of hatespeech, and no, it wasn't always "ironic" (which is bullshit anyway in the context), but often clear and explicit.
* Enshrining their victims in the internet's memory as freaks, weirdos and pathetic broken people, even if they also enshrined themselves as 'controversial' assholes.
* So much more.
In extensive interaction with them it was explicitly and implicitly clear that they were 'from 4chan' (among other communities). They didn't particularly care to distinguish themselves as being from /b/ specifically, and even if it was just them we never received any kind of help, relief, recognition, or anything other than mockery from anyone else from that shithole of a 'community' or their allies. Instead we were told to just laugh it all off, stop being butthurt, stop 'provoking' them, stop trying to imagine we could have any kind of privacy, stop being freaks in the first place, stop making accusations without impossible-to-gather proof (actual proof was ignored), and on and on and on. And as much as moot and others may have said they disclaimed or disdained /b/ or tried to curb them, he had no obligation to keep providing an unmoderated, anonymous place for them to exist on his site or to run a site at all if that's what it resulted in.
And although moot does seem to have recently at least somewhat recognised what he facilitated and through action or inaction allowed was terrible (and surely criminal in word and/or spirit), I don't see why it should have to let him or others who laud the site off the hook for not doing more to stop it even if it meant aggressively banning, changing their mod policies, closing down boards or whatever. I heard endless justifications on why that was unnecessary, stupid, fascist, pitiful, impossible, or just not a big deal, I read novels-worth of it any time any attempt was made to try and get things to change. It was self-serving crap then, it is now.
Are there things I missed? I daresay. I don't feel any particular obligation to find excuses for them or hear how they were just so very sore about it in their hearts. I know they never really did shit for the countless people who were caused misery and made to wade through lakes of horrible crap, and then blamed for anything they did or didn't do in reaction, all while the offenders, their actions and their culture were and are held up as the lulziest bros in the world and given their little cesspit to live in.
So I stand by my comment.
posted by Drexen at 3:22 PM on January 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
* Doxing
* Outing
* Invasion of private communities and accounts and publication of private, intensely personal messages
* Destruction or dismantling of communities of often vulnerable, marginalised people
* Relentless harassment and stalking
* Intense, deeply personal, sustained mockery
* Lies being disseminated and presented as proven.
* A thousand insidious tactics to undermine and destroy the self-confidence of people even as they slid into crisis specifically because of what these people were doing, to gaslight and mock them for even trying to defend themselves, to react in any way, to try to hide, or not to react; to villify them, to convince them that they were crazy and utterly worthless, and that it was impossible to in any way reason or appease the attackers.
* Threats.
* Every kind of hatespeech, and no, it wasn't always "ironic" (which is bullshit anyway in the context), but often clear and explicit.
* Enshrining their victims in the internet's memory as freaks, weirdos and pathetic broken people, even if they also enshrined themselves as 'controversial' assholes.
* So much more.
In extensive interaction with them it was explicitly and implicitly clear that they were 'from 4chan' (among other communities). They didn't particularly care to distinguish themselves as being from /b/ specifically, and even if it was just them we never received any kind of help, relief, recognition, or anything other than mockery from anyone else from that shithole of a 'community' or their allies. Instead we were told to just laugh it all off, stop being butthurt, stop 'provoking' them, stop trying to imagine we could have any kind of privacy, stop being freaks in the first place, stop making accusations without impossible-to-gather proof (actual proof was ignored), and on and on and on. And as much as moot and others may have said they disclaimed or disdained /b/ or tried to curb them, he had no obligation to keep providing an unmoderated, anonymous place for them to exist on his site or to run a site at all if that's what it resulted in.
And although moot does seem to have recently at least somewhat recognised what he facilitated and through action or inaction allowed was terrible (and surely criminal in word and/or spirit), I don't see why it should have to let him or others who laud the site off the hook for not doing more to stop it even if it meant aggressively banning, changing their mod policies, closing down boards or whatever. I heard endless justifications on why that was unnecessary, stupid, fascist, pitiful, impossible, or just not a big deal, I read novels-worth of it any time any attempt was made to try and get things to change. It was self-serving crap then, it is now.
Are there things I missed? I daresay. I don't feel any particular obligation to find excuses for them or hear how they were just so very sore about it in their hearts. I know they never really did shit for the countless people who were caused misery and made to wade through lakes of horrible crap, and then blamed for anything they did or didn't do in reaction, all while the offenders, their actions and their culture were and are held up as the lulziest bros in the world and given their little cesspit to live in.
So I stand by my comment.
posted by Drexen at 3:22 PM on January 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
>>5904134
That's a pretty offensive thing to say.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 3:29 PM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
That's a pretty offensive thing to say.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 3:29 PM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
thanks, Drexen. Didn't intend to diminish any of the shit you had to go through.
posted by philip-random at 3:50 PM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 3:50 PM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
No worries. I also want to point out that a lot of this stuff was also done under the banner of Anonymous/anons, which was 'the internet hate machine' long before it was the dubiously-admirable activist-hacker group it partially morphed into. And, of course, mostly (especially back then) synonymous with /b/.
posted by Drexen at 4:09 PM on January 22, 2015
posted by Drexen at 4:09 PM on January 22, 2015
That is even worse than the cortex jingle generator.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:26 PM on January 22, 2015
posted by Going To Maine at 6:26 PM on January 22, 2015
My "horror of the situation" moment with 4chan was when I realized that the site wasn't full of "ironic" racists/misogynists/homophobes/transphobes, but full of actual racists/misogynists/homophobes/transphobes. Fostering an environment where lots of young white guys pretended to be horrible (often in lazy ways, without self awareness) attracted a community of genuinely horrible people. The low-boil bigotry visible on the public face of 4chan isn't a cutesy Free Speech, "saying it because we can" thing; it's indicative of genuine bigotry that extends into doing real harm to minorities, as Drexen went into. There have been enough campaigns to cause actual harm to at-risk people (guess what they were up to right before/after Leelah Alcorn's suicide) that nobody can kid themselves anymore. A lot of (most?) people in the community are actual sincere bigots who mask their hate in (mostly bad, failed) comedy.
The problem with /b/ specifically is the same issue Reddit faces: it leaks. It's not aseptic. It's not contained. The toxicity seeps into other boards and sort of dominates them through sheer numbers/influence. It's not really possible to engage with the site and not encounter toxicity at least occasionally. The diversity of the site has dwindled over time as a result and I stopped paying attention years ago.
I really miss imageboards, though. It seems like their time has come and gone. There used to be such a wealth of them; iichan/wakachan had some excellent art and photo boards. They're all either gone or defunct or slow enough to be dead now. MeFi's own shii ran the best imageboard in the world. It would've been nice if imageboards had stuck around, evolved, not been burned to the ground by their worst elements.
posted by byanyothername at 9:51 PM on January 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
The problem with /b/ specifically is the same issue Reddit faces: it leaks. It's not aseptic. It's not contained. The toxicity seeps into other boards and sort of dominates them through sheer numbers/influence. It's not really possible to engage with the site and not encounter toxicity at least occasionally. The diversity of the site has dwindled over time as a result and I stopped paying attention years ago.
I really miss imageboards, though. It seems like their time has come and gone. There used to be such a wealth of them; iichan/wakachan had some excellent art and photo boards. They're all either gone or defunct or slow enough to be dead now. MeFi's own shii ran the best imageboard in the world. It would've been nice if imageboards had stuck around, evolved, not been burned to the ground by their worst elements.
posted by byanyothername at 9:51 PM on January 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
(guess what they were up to right before/after Leelah Alcorn's suicide)
In fairness to /pol, looking at the screenshot of the "we should create an infographic that will drive trans folks to suicide thread" linked in the article, it seems like all of the responses ridicule this as a stupid idea. But then, also in fairness to /pol, it's a place where people feel okay making a thread (serious or in jest) suggesting that it would be a good idea to make an inforgraphic driving trans people to suicide. It's soaking in privilege.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:53 AM on January 23, 2015
In fairness to /pol, looking at the screenshot of the "we should create an infographic that will drive trans folks to suicide thread" linked in the article, it seems like all of the responses ridicule this as a stupid idea. But then, also in fairness to /pol, it's a place where people feel okay making a thread (serious or in jest) suggesting that it would be a good idea to make an inforgraphic driving trans people to suicide. It's soaking in privilege.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:53 AM on January 23, 2015
moot's exit Q&A is up.
It's eight hours long.
posted by postcommunism at 9:11 PM on January 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's eight hours long.
posted by postcommunism at 9:11 PM on January 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
i've listened to an hour of it so far and it's fascinating. some might find it mostly mundane but i'm really compelled to keep listening.
posted by nadawi at 10:51 PM on January 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by nadawi at 10:51 PM on January 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hahaha, one of the questions was: "Have you installed Gentoo?"
posted by I-baLL at 9:18 AM on January 24, 2015
posted by I-baLL at 9:18 AM on January 24, 2015
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posted by postcommunism at 2:14 PM on January 21, 2015 [6 favorites]