Get your pies for the great pie fight!
March 19, 2015 10:39 AM Subscribe
How did pie become the perfect comedic projectile? It started with Mr Flip (1909), which may well be the first pie-to-the-face in movie history (although the first thrown pie was in A Noise from the Deep in 1913). Director Mack Sennett loved the gag so much, he began using it in most of his films, and turned it into one of the most famous slapstick moves in history.
Some excellent examples:
Some excellent examples:
- The first pie fight, in Behind the Screen (1916), starring Charlie Chaplin.
- Battle of the Century (1927), starring Laurel & Hardy, used over 4000 pies.
- In the Sweet Pie and Pie (1941) with the Three Stooges.
- The lost ending of Dr Strangelove (1964).
- The Great Race (1965), because two Jack Lemmons being hit with pies is all you need in life. 300 leftover pies were reportedly eaten by the crew after the fight.
- Blazing Saddles (1974) devolves into an all-out food fight.
- Bugsy Malone (1976), which needs no additional explanation.
I think the first pie fight I ever saw on screen was that stupid one in the Brady Bunch.
posted by Melismata at 10:45 AM on March 19, 2015
posted by Melismata at 10:45 AM on March 19, 2015
And for even more references, TV Tropes page on Pie in the Face. Beware the rabbit hole.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:48 AM on March 19, 2015
posted by filthy light thief at 10:48 AM on March 19, 2015
I would have linked the TVTropes, but I make it a rule not to ruin people's work days unless it's a Friday.
posted by specialagentwebb at 10:50 AM on March 19, 2015
posted by specialagentwebb at 10:50 AM on March 19, 2015
That Mr. Flip pie in the face was well deserved.
posted by yeolcoatl at 10:59 AM on March 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by yeolcoatl at 10:59 AM on March 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I haven't even been able to watch any videos yet, but this is my new favorite post.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:02 AM on March 19, 2015
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:02 AM on March 19, 2015
The "pie in the face" thing has always struck me as one of those moments that signifies humor without actually being humorous. That is, it's roughly equivalent to holding up a sign saying "now we are doing something 'amusing'." I don't think I've ever once found the act itself funny (including in Mr. Flip where you just feel relieved that that asshole has been put down, and wish it were a little more permanent). There are funny gags about pies in the face, but the pie in the face, itself, never seems amusing to me at all.
posted by yoink at 11:14 AM on March 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by yoink at 11:14 AM on March 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
About once a year I think to myself "You know, I've never been involved in a pie fight" and I decide this is the year I will change that but then I forget until the next time I remember.
I really should change that. Pie fight meetup, anyone?
posted by bondcliff at 11:20 AM on March 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I really should change that. Pie fight meetup, anyone?
posted by bondcliff at 11:20 AM on March 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I just went looking for the stupid Brady Bunch one Melismata mentions up there, which I also remember vividly, and was denied. It's just astonishing to not have unfettered instant access to all of the minutia from my childhood. Alas.
But while searching I found this clip from the Captain and Tennille show, which does exactly what pie fights always seem to do - generate big, big larfs about something that isn't funny at all. I mean, it's the Captain and Tennille show, so it is 1976 or 7, and all of these people are certainly high as bugs which explains some of it. But still!
Another notable pie fight trope (or subversion thereof) is in Long Kiss Goodnight, when Geena Davis kills a guy by hitting him in the face with a pie (warning - violence). That movie is an underrated gem.
posted by dirtdirt at 11:37 AM on March 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
But while searching I found this clip from the Captain and Tennille show, which does exactly what pie fights always seem to do - generate big, big larfs about something that isn't funny at all. I mean, it's the Captain and Tennille show, so it is 1976 or 7, and all of these people are certainly high as bugs which explains some of it. But still!
Another notable pie fight trope (or subversion thereof) is in Long Kiss Goodnight, when Geena Davis kills a guy by hitting him in the face with a pie (warning - violence). That movie is an underrated gem.
posted by dirtdirt at 11:37 AM on March 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's interesting to watch that first one and then the C&T one and how they revolve around much the same mechanisms, usually the pie hitting someone the thrower did not intend, but also the critical one of someone remaining un-pied for much longer than you expect.
I think it is a sort of humor signifier in a way, but farce/vaudeville/pratfalls are that way by nature (I just watched Monsieur Hulot's Holiday, and I think it's pertinent). Much of this style of humor depends on messing with expectations of either physics, intention, or both.
posted by dhartung at 11:44 AM on March 19, 2015
I think it is a sort of humor signifier in a way, but farce/vaudeville/pratfalls are that way by nature (I just watched Monsieur Hulot's Holiday, and I think it's pertinent). Much of this style of humor depends on messing with expectations of either physics, intention, or both.
posted by dhartung at 11:44 AM on March 19, 2015
I've seen that Brady Bunch pie fight... it was pretty brutal.
posted by ovvl at 11:44 AM on March 19, 2015
posted by ovvl at 11:44 AM on March 19, 2015
Beware the rabbit hole.
Rabbit hole or pie hole?
I could use some pie for my pie hole, actually. Mmmmm, pie!
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:49 AM on March 19, 2015
Rabbit hole or pie hole?
I could use some pie for my pie hole, actually. Mmmmm, pie!
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:49 AM on March 19, 2015
Re Laurel and Hardy: the woman who sits down on the pie, then gets up and walks daintily away, after pausing for a - what? Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I laughed out loud several times during that scene.
posted by QuietDesperation at 12:08 PM on March 19, 2015
posted by QuietDesperation at 12:08 PM on March 19, 2015
As early as the late 14th century or indeed as late as the early 14th century, the earliest forms of jape were divisible into the two categories into which I now intend to divide them. The earliest manifestation of the basic simple precipitation jest incurred, as will be seen from the demonstration, a disproportionate amount of internal risibility on the part of the operator.posted by Herodios at 12:09 PM on March 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Secondary precipitation occurs when both protagonist and dupe are located indoors. It is true, however, that this has involved the development of a special piece of machinery. But it is still no more than a simple variation of primary precipitation.
[. . .]
Popular as this jest has always been, however, it cannot compare with the ribald connotations associated with the dispatch of an edible missile.
The simple straightforward "offensive deposit."
The simple "sideways offensive deposit."
The simple "surprise deposit."
And the "foul pie."
[Could we have new pies, please?]
[. . . ]
But finally we must not forget the enjoyment, the satisfaction, and the edification to be derived from the simple straightforward "sideways completely unexpected deposit."
I think it is a sort of humor signifier in a way, but farce/vaudeville/pratfalls are that way by nature (I just watched Monsieur Hulot's Holiday, and I think it's pertinent).
But Hulot puts considerable ingenuity into setting up exactly what complicated series of things will go wrong, getting him further and further enmeshed in a series of misunderstandings or mechanical complications. I'm easily amused by farce and by pratfalls, but they seem to need some leaven of the unexpected or some kind of twist. The man who carefully, carefully avoids walking under the ladder only to fall down the manhole or what have you. The weird thing about the pie in the face--and what makes it seem so perfunctory, like calling out the punchline of a joke without bothering with the set up--is that it seems so often to fall out of the normal rhythm of physical humor. It's just "look, I have a pie and that person has a face! And now the pie is in the face! OMG! LOL!" The biggest "twist" is usually "I aimed for person A but I hit person B instead!" but that itself is so timeworn (and is usually just a pretext for a pie-fight free-for-all) that it feels foreordained.
posted by yoink at 12:19 PM on March 19, 2015
But Hulot puts considerable ingenuity into setting up exactly what complicated series of things will go wrong, getting him further and further enmeshed in a series of misunderstandings or mechanical complications. I'm easily amused by farce and by pratfalls, but they seem to need some leaven of the unexpected or some kind of twist. The man who carefully, carefully avoids walking under the ladder only to fall down the manhole or what have you. The weird thing about the pie in the face--and what makes it seem so perfunctory, like calling out the punchline of a joke without bothering with the set up--is that it seems so often to fall out of the normal rhythm of physical humor. It's just "look, I have a pie and that person has a face! And now the pie is in the face! OMG! LOL!" The biggest "twist" is usually "I aimed for person A but I hit person B instead!" but that itself is so timeworn (and is usually just a pretext for a pie-fight free-for-all) that it feels foreordained.
posted by yoink at 12:19 PM on March 19, 2015
The "pie in the face" thing has always struck me as one of those moments that signifies humor without actually being humorous. . . . the pie in the face, itself, never seems amusing to me at all.
Well, I'll take a swat.
I think a pie fight and a pie in the face are two different things. They both involve displacement and disorder. Food doesn't belong on your outsides, it's wasteful, decorum is violiated, etc.
A food fight is sophomoric, a chaotic breakdown of order with no particular meaning outside of itself. It's Lord of the Flies, teacher's down the hall stuff.
A pie in the face contains a message of the social order inverted, disrespect for authority, and so on. If the victim is in on the joke, it's a bit of harmless fun -- what's now called 'teambuilding' -- showing the group that the boss can take a joke, is one of us and so on.
in Mr. Flip . . . you just feel relieved that that asshole has been put down, and wish it were a little more permanent.
Exactly. If the victim is not in on the joke it's a message of disrespect. You don't look like much of a boss with food on your face and clothing like a baby or a barbarian. We can't really hurt you, but we can temporarily humiliate you. For now, we've put one over on you, and the message of your speech / meeting / parade is put in a different context.
A movie is the same thing, only without the dog.
posted by Herodios at 12:27 PM on March 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, I'll take a swat.
I think a pie fight and a pie in the face are two different things. They both involve displacement and disorder. Food doesn't belong on your outsides, it's wasteful, decorum is violiated, etc.
A food fight is sophomoric, a chaotic breakdown of order with no particular meaning outside of itself. It's Lord of the Flies, teacher's down the hall stuff.
A pie in the face contains a message of the social order inverted, disrespect for authority, and so on. If the victim is in on the joke, it's a bit of harmless fun -- what's now called 'teambuilding' -- showing the group that the boss can take a joke, is one of us and so on.
in Mr. Flip . . . you just feel relieved that that asshole has been put down, and wish it were a little more permanent.
Exactly. If the victim is not in on the joke it's a message of disrespect. You don't look like much of a boss with food on your face and clothing like a baby or a barbarian. We can't really hurt you, but we can temporarily humiliate you. For now, we've put one over on you, and the message of your speech / meeting / parade is put in a different context.
A movie is the same thing, only without the dog.
posted by Herodios at 12:27 PM on March 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
For me the real magic of a pie moment (and this is probably what the 'auguste' style of Europeans circus clowns invented) is a cumulative development: one clown is led by his greed/conceitedness to anticipate that he is about to devour a pie or enjoy some other carnal pleasure, but the precise moment of his joy is then replaced by a pie in the face, delivered by another clown who is so idiotic/innocent that he may not realise he's even done it. A third clown laughs at this situation, and then he slips over in the mess.
See: Marx Brothers; Spongebob Squarepants for masterclasses.
posted by colie at 12:31 PM on March 19, 2015
See: Marx Brothers; Spongebob Squarepants for masterclasses.
posted by colie at 12:31 PM on March 19, 2015
Mr. Flip also features the titular character being sprayed with a seltzer bottle at about the 3:05 mark, another comedic trope with a long history.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 12:34 PM on March 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 12:34 PM on March 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Mr. Flip also features the titular character being sprayed with a seltzer bottle at about the 3:05 mark, another comedic trope with a long history.
Yeah, and again, a thing that could plausibly happen in real life.
A grapefruit in the face, though -- that's a different thing entirely.
posted by Herodios at 12:37 PM on March 19, 2015
Yeah, and again, a thing that could plausibly happen in real life.
A grapefruit in the face, though -- that's a different thing entirely.
posted by Herodios at 12:37 PM on March 19, 2015
Pie fight meetup, anyone?
Careful what you wish for ... I've met two men with strong pie-in-the-face fetishes. There are even sub-genres for men who prefer fruit pie, Boston cream pie, and Mom's apple pie-in-the-face. Your meetup might turn into a meat-up.
Unless, you know, that's what your looking for.
posted by kanewai at 1:04 PM on March 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Careful what you wish for ... I've met two men with strong pie-in-the-face fetishes. There are even sub-genres for men who prefer fruit pie, Boston cream pie, and Mom's apple pie-in-the-face. Your meetup might turn into a meat-up.
Unless, you know, that's what your looking for.
posted by kanewai at 1:04 PM on March 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Are you going to let this chance slip? The opportunity of a lifetime which will not occur again. By Jove, you ought to rise up and embrace this bird. You ought to clasp the chappie to your bosom! He has thrown pies at you, hasn't he? Very well. You are a movie-magnate. Your whole fortune is founded on chappies who throw pies. You probably scour the world for chappies who throw pies. Yet, when one comes right to you without any fuss or trouble and demonstrates before your very eyes the fact that he is without a peer as a pie-propeller, you get the wind up and talk about having him arrested. Consider! (There's a bit of cherry just behind your left ear.) Be sensible. Why let your personal feeling stand in the way of doing yourself a bit of good? Give this chappie a job and give it him quick, or we go elsewhere. Did you ever see Fatty Arbuckle handle pastry with a surer touch? Has Charlie Chaplin got this fellow's speed and control. Absolutely not. I tell you, old friend, you're in danger of throwing away a good thing!"
PG Wodehouse, Indiscretions of Archie
posted by betweenthebars at 1:06 PM on March 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
PG Wodehouse, Indiscretions of Archie
posted by betweenthebars at 1:06 PM on March 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
A movie is the same thing, only without the dog.
If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college.
posted by yoink at 1:08 PM on March 19, 2015
If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college.
posted by yoink at 1:08 PM on March 19, 2015
Brady Bunch pie fight.
I KNOW my Brady Bunch, thank you very much.
posted by Melismata at 1:23 PM on March 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
I KNOW my Brady Bunch, thank you very much.
posted by Melismata at 1:23 PM on March 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
Brady Bunch pie fight yt .
Now that's existential despair. Makes Beckett seem like a romantic comedy.
posted by yoink at 1:26 PM on March 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Now that's existential despair. Makes Beckett seem like a romantic comedy.
posted by yoink at 1:26 PM on March 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
(And, IIRC, the reason why Mike Brady does not appear in that pie fight is because Robert Reed thought it was too stupid to be in.)
posted by Melismata at 1:27 PM on March 19, 2015
posted by Melismata at 1:27 PM on March 19, 2015
HuronBob: "Two words: Soupy Sales "
Wow, Frank Sinatra let himself get hit in the face with pies?!
I never really thought too much about it, but I like slapstick. I love the Three Stooges. Some of the best times with my kids when they were young was watching the Stooges together. All these clips are terrific.
posted by 724A at 1:36 PM on March 19, 2015
Wow, Frank Sinatra let himself get hit in the face with pies?!
I never really thought too much about it, but I like slapstick. I love the Three Stooges. Some of the best times with my kids when they were young was watching the Stooges together. All these clips are terrific.
posted by 724A at 1:36 PM on March 19, 2015
The "pie in the face" thing has always struck me as one of those moments that signifies humor without actually being humorous.
It is actually pretty meta, but I challenge you to watch the Python skit quoted by Herodios and not laugh. Pie in the face may be part of a stereotypical comic vocabulary by now, but it can obviously be used effectively.
posted by Dr Dracator at 2:00 PM on March 19, 2015
It is actually pretty meta, but I challenge you to watch the Python skit quoted by Herodios and not laugh. Pie in the face may be part of a stereotypical comic vocabulary by now, but it can obviously be used effectively.
posted by Dr Dracator at 2:00 PM on March 19, 2015
It is actually pretty meta, but I challenge you to watch the Python skit quoted by Herodios and not laugh.
Yes, I covered that in my first comment: "There are funny gags about pies in the face." Meta-pie-in-the-face humour can obviously be funny. But I challenge anyone to watch a straight "why am I supposed to be laughing?--Because somebody just hit someone else in the face with a pie!" clip like the Brady Bunch one above and not feel their soul shrivel a little inside them.
posted by yoink at 2:07 PM on March 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yes, I covered that in my first comment: "There are funny gags about pies in the face." Meta-pie-in-the-face humour can obviously be funny. But I challenge anyone to watch a straight "why am I supposed to be laughing?--Because somebody just hit someone else in the face with a pie!" clip like the Brady Bunch one above and not feel their soul shrivel a little inside them.
posted by yoink at 2:07 PM on March 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
But Hulot puts considerable ingenuity into setting up exactly what complicated series of things will go wrong, getting him further and further enmeshed in a series of misunderstandings or mechanical complications. I'm easily amused by farce and by pratfalls, but they seem to need some leaven of the unexpected or some kind of twist.
Yes, but this is really just a matter of degree -- of the elegance of the setup. MHH is quite far above most of the examples here, but still cut of the same cloth. (Now, Playtime, for example, is more advanced yet by much the same degree. The gags exhibit not merely poignant empathy, but incisive social commentary.) I think the real issue is context. The utterly banal awkwardness of the Brady example shows how it can be done very poorly and create what I may call a tension of unfunniness.
it seems so often to fall out of the normal rhythm of physical humor. I
I agree that it can, and that's the Brady example to a tee. A number of the less imaginative pie fights show this sort of problem in high relief, specifically perhaps the times when someone is miming the whole "Oho, I've managed to go un-pied thus far!" while one or more pies creep steadily closer in the hand of a person with exaggerated smugness. But this is really just a problem with the direction and pacing, I would posit.
Two of the greatest farces of all time, Bringing Up Baby and its deliberate homage, What's Up Doc?, both feature utterly obvious gags with all the foreshadowing a reasonably intelligent viewer needs to see them in advance -- but with flawless timing and execution.
The difference may be that a typical gag exhibits a level of unintentionality, whereas pies are only going to get on faces if they are tossed and tossed correctly.
a straight "why am I supposed to be laughing?--Because somebody just hit someone else in the face with a pie!" clip
But that's the point. If that's all there is, there's no actual humor. I think the real problem with the Brady pie fight is that it's conceived not as a gag, but as the characters walking through a gag. And that's not funny at all. (This is probably the only genuine laugh in the whole scenario.)
posted by dhartung at 3:15 PM on March 19, 2015
Yes, but this is really just a matter of degree -- of the elegance of the setup. MHH is quite far above most of the examples here, but still cut of the same cloth. (Now, Playtime, for example, is more advanced yet by much the same degree. The gags exhibit not merely poignant empathy, but incisive social commentary.) I think the real issue is context. The utterly banal awkwardness of the Brady example shows how it can be done very poorly and create what I may call a tension of unfunniness.
it seems so often to fall out of the normal rhythm of physical humor. I
I agree that it can, and that's the Brady example to a tee. A number of the less imaginative pie fights show this sort of problem in high relief, specifically perhaps the times when someone is miming the whole "Oho, I've managed to go un-pied thus far!" while one or more pies creep steadily closer in the hand of a person with exaggerated smugness. But this is really just a problem with the direction and pacing, I would posit.
Two of the greatest farces of all time, Bringing Up Baby and its deliberate homage, What's Up Doc?, both feature utterly obvious gags with all the foreshadowing a reasonably intelligent viewer needs to see them in advance -- but with flawless timing and execution.
The difference may be that a typical gag exhibits a level of unintentionality, whereas pies are only going to get on faces if they are tossed and tossed correctly.
a straight "why am I supposed to be laughing?--Because somebody just hit someone else in the face with a pie!" clip
But that's the point. If that's all there is, there's no actual humor. I think the real problem with the Brady pie fight is that it's conceived not as a gag, but as the characters walking through a gag. And that's not funny at all. (This is probably the only genuine laugh in the whole scenario.)
posted by dhartung at 3:15 PM on March 19, 2015
Re Soupy Sales: "A thousand pardons, and that's two more than my uncle got." That was a very hip kid's show.
posted by QuietDesperation at 4:44 PM on March 19, 2015
posted by QuietDesperation at 4:44 PM on March 19, 2015
Also: In You're Darn Tootin' the last 5 minutes is a pie fight with feet instead of pies.
posted by QuietDesperation at 4:47 PM on March 19, 2015
posted by QuietDesperation at 4:47 PM on March 19, 2015
What we need is for the Cohen or Farley brothers to use it well in a new franchise and bring pie wackiness up into the current century of fine filmmaking.
There are few films that would not have been better by including a gratuitous pie fight scene. Think Star Wars: The Phantom Menace. A short comedic break in The Sniper! Half way up the river pies break out in Apocalypse Now?!? A subtle pie splat in the background in any Woody Allen flic, no?
Moar Pies!!
posted by sammyo at 4:53 PM on March 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
There are few films that would not have been better by including a gratuitous pie fight scene. Think Star Wars: The Phantom Menace. A short comedic break in The Sniper! Half way up the river pies break out in Apocalypse Now?!? A subtle pie splat in the background in any Woody Allen flic, no?
Moar Pies!!
posted by sammyo at 4:53 PM on March 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
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It was a live pie fight, but filmed and relatively recently turned into a short documentary.
Sadly, the Wikipedia page on Pieing doesn't get into the cinematic history, but focuses instead on the political statements.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:43 AM on March 19, 2015 [2 favorites]