Turkey Votes
June 6, 2015 6:50 PM Subscribe
"Turks go to the polls on Sunday in the closest parliamentary election in more than a decade, one that could pave the way for President Tayyip Erdogan to amass greater power or end 12 years of single-party rule for the AK Party he founded."
Erdogan, who some have panned as authoritarian, wants to amend the constitution to make the president, the position he now holds, the "leading political authority."
The election has seen the growing power of the HDP, Turkey's first pro-Kurdish party that has a chance of gaining seats in parliament. A large rally they recently held was marred by bomb attack in which two died and hundreds were injured.
Erdogan's party, the AKP, seems like it will finish first in voting, but due in part to the lagging economy, the HDP has a chance to prevent the AKP from seizing an outright majority if they do well at the polls.
Infographic on various party positions
Erdogan, who some have panned as authoritarian, wants to amend the constitution to make the president, the position he now holds, the "leading political authority."
The election has seen the growing power of the HDP, Turkey's first pro-Kurdish party that has a chance of gaining seats in parliament. A large rally they recently held was marred by bomb attack in which two died and hundreds were injured.
Erdogan's party, the AKP, seems like it will finish first in voting, but due in part to the lagging economy, the HDP has a chance to prevent the AKP from seizing an outright majority if they do well at the polls.
Infographic on various party positions
I suspect, Joe, that's might say more about the (until Greece, Spain etc) increasingly debased standard of EU membership than any particular merits of Turkey's. It'll never happen now that the GFC inescapably reveals how badly they let countries cook their books for membership.
posted by smoke at 8:09 PM on June 6, 2015
posted by smoke at 8:09 PM on June 6, 2015
Voters are so fucking stupid sometimes. Erdogan is pissing on Araturk's grave to fucking applause. This is how democracies end.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:10 PM on June 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 8:10 PM on June 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
leotrotsky, whatever Ataturk's legacy may have included, pluralism and multi-party democracy weren't really at the top of the list. Ataturk was in many respects an enlightened despot. Erdogan isn't as enlightened, but otherwise ...
posted by 1adam12 at 8:35 PM on June 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by 1adam12 at 8:35 PM on June 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ataturk instituted elections, civil law, women's emancipation, and a modern system of government; at a time when Europe was turning to fascism and one-party rule. I don't know what he could have done that would negate those achievements.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:26 PM on June 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:26 PM on June 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
OMG:
Ahead of polls, Erdogan slams foreign, ‘Jewish’-backed media
Ahead of polls, Erdogan slams foreign, ‘Jewish’-backed media
Turkey’s president lashes out at press critical of his increasingly authoritarian rule; parliamentary elections to be held Sundayposted by Joe in Australia at 9:35 PM on June 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Turkey was a mess before Erdogan was first elected. He was a popular, post-IMF-structural-adjustment backlash, like the leftist leaders that came to power in Latin America over the same period. In earlier decades any of them would have been dispatched by military coup.
posted by moorooka at 10:10 PM on June 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by moorooka at 10:10 PM on June 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Joe in Australia: Ataturk instituted elections, civil law, women's emancipation, and a modern system of government; at a time when Europe was turning to fascism and one-party rule. I don't know what he could have done that would negate those achievements.
His policy towards the Kurdish population of Turkey was atrocious, and IMO it does greatly tarnish his legacy. The following is quoted from "A Modern History of the Kurds" by David McDowall, p. 207:
"In June 1934 a draconian new law was established, granting the state widespread powers over the population. Law No. 2510 divided Turkey into three zones: (i) localities to be reserved for the habitation in compact form of persons possessing Turkish culture; (ii) regions to which populations of non-Turkish culture for assimilation into Turkish language and culture were to be moved; (iii) regions to be completely evacuated. The state was vested with full powers of compulsory transfer for those categories requiring assimilation. Furthermore, this law abrogated all previous recognition of tribes, their aghast, chiefs and shaykhs, with the automatic sequestration of all immovable property pertaining either to tribes or their leaders. Such leaders and their families were to be transferred for assimilation into Turkish culture. All villages or urban quarters where Turkish was not the mother language were to be dissolved, and their inhabitants distributed in predominantly mother-tongue-Turkish-speaking areas. Any kind of association or grouping in which the majority were non-Turkish-speaking was forbidden. It was intended to disperse the Kurdish population, to areas where it would constitute no more than 5 percent of the population, thus extinguishing Kurdish identity. It was even proposed that village children should be sent to boarding establishments where they would be obligated to speak only in Turkish and lose their Kurdish identity entirely. Although the word "Kurdish" was studiously avoided, no one could mistake the intention to destroy Kurdish identity entirely."
This happened under Ataturk's watch, and it set the tone for the Turkish state's relationship to its Kurdish population- for years afterwards and up until quite recently, there was a concerted attempt at cultural genocide of the Kurds. The message of the Turkish state to its Kurdish population basically could be summed up as "assimilate or die", and any Kurdish resistance was met with the utmost cruelty and brutality. Only recently has it even been legal for Kurds to speak their own language, and to this day there is an incredible amount of hatred and discrimination towards Kurds within Turkey. A lot of people even outside of Turkish nationalist circles have a high opinion of Ataturk and his legacy, and I can certainly see why if one isn't familiar with that particular part of Turkish history- but ultimately, IMO, he is not a figure to be admired.
OMG:
Ahead of polls, Erdogan slams foreign, ‘Jewish’-backed media
Erdogan is virulently, openly anti-Semitic, and his party media encourages and foments anti-Semitic conspiracy theories within Turkey. How that, along with many, many other things he's said and done, doesn't bring worldwide condemnation down on his head, I'll never understand. (Well, I think I kind of do understand why, and it's not to the credit of the rest of the world, to say the least.) Erdogan and his government are bad in ways that go far beyond just "corrupt authoritarian right-wing jerks" into "should be an international pariah and on the list of state sponsors of terrorism", as far as I'm concerned. He's utterly vile, in every respect, and I can only hope that it's all about to come back to bite him now- as horrified as I was by how he responded to the siege of Kobane, I can only imagine how I would be feeling about it if I was a Kurd. I'm praying for the success of the HDP, but I'm somewhat pessimistic about it- I really wouldn't put it past the AKP to try to pull some electoral shenanigans.
posted by a louis wain cat at 11:30 PM on June 6, 2015 [11 favorites]
His policy towards the Kurdish population of Turkey was atrocious, and IMO it does greatly tarnish his legacy. The following is quoted from "A Modern History of the Kurds" by David McDowall, p. 207:
"In June 1934 a draconian new law was established, granting the state widespread powers over the population. Law No. 2510 divided Turkey into three zones: (i) localities to be reserved for the habitation in compact form of persons possessing Turkish culture; (ii) regions to which populations of non-Turkish culture for assimilation into Turkish language and culture were to be moved; (iii) regions to be completely evacuated. The state was vested with full powers of compulsory transfer for those categories requiring assimilation. Furthermore, this law abrogated all previous recognition of tribes, their aghast, chiefs and shaykhs, with the automatic sequestration of all immovable property pertaining either to tribes or their leaders. Such leaders and their families were to be transferred for assimilation into Turkish culture. All villages or urban quarters where Turkish was not the mother language were to be dissolved, and their inhabitants distributed in predominantly mother-tongue-Turkish-speaking areas. Any kind of association or grouping in which the majority were non-Turkish-speaking was forbidden. It was intended to disperse the Kurdish population, to areas where it would constitute no more than 5 percent of the population, thus extinguishing Kurdish identity. It was even proposed that village children should be sent to boarding establishments where they would be obligated to speak only in Turkish and lose their Kurdish identity entirely. Although the word "Kurdish" was studiously avoided, no one could mistake the intention to destroy Kurdish identity entirely."
This happened under Ataturk's watch, and it set the tone for the Turkish state's relationship to its Kurdish population- for years afterwards and up until quite recently, there was a concerted attempt at cultural genocide of the Kurds. The message of the Turkish state to its Kurdish population basically could be summed up as "assimilate or die", and any Kurdish resistance was met with the utmost cruelty and brutality. Only recently has it even been legal for Kurds to speak their own language, and to this day there is an incredible amount of hatred and discrimination towards Kurds within Turkey. A lot of people even outside of Turkish nationalist circles have a high opinion of Ataturk and his legacy, and I can certainly see why if one isn't familiar with that particular part of Turkish history- but ultimately, IMO, he is not a figure to be admired.
OMG:
Ahead of polls, Erdogan slams foreign, ‘Jewish’-backed media
Erdogan is virulently, openly anti-Semitic, and his party media encourages and foments anti-Semitic conspiracy theories within Turkey. How that, along with many, many other things he's said and done, doesn't bring worldwide condemnation down on his head, I'll never understand. (Well, I think I kind of do understand why, and it's not to the credit of the rest of the world, to say the least.) Erdogan and his government are bad in ways that go far beyond just "corrupt authoritarian right-wing jerks" into "should be an international pariah and on the list of state sponsors of terrorism", as far as I'm concerned. He's utterly vile, in every respect, and I can only hope that it's all about to come back to bite him now- as horrified as I was by how he responded to the siege of Kobane, I can only imagine how I would be feeling about it if I was a Kurd. I'm praying for the success of the HDP, but I'm somewhat pessimistic about it- I really wouldn't put it past the AKP to try to pull some electoral shenanigans.
posted by a louis wain cat at 11:30 PM on June 6, 2015 [11 favorites]
I'm pretty sure the shenanigans having been going on for months now. The only question is how much fraud AKP needs in addition to bombing, beating, and imprisoning.
posted by ethansr at 1:54 AM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ethansr at 1:54 AM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Economist: Why Turks should vote Kurd
I'm pretty sure the shenanigans having been going on for months now. The only question is how much fraud AKP needs in addition to bombing, beating, and imprisoning.
Yeah, that's very true- I meant "shenanigans" in the sense of outright rigging the vote, but the degree of open, institutionally-backed violence directed at the HDP is itself enough to make this a blatantly unfair election. If the HDP gets over 10%, it's going to be an incredible triumph. I'm fervently hoping for it, but preparing to be disappointed.
posted by a louis wain cat at 2:16 AM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure the shenanigans having been going on for months now. The only question is how much fraud AKP needs in addition to bombing, beating, and imprisoning.
Yeah, that's very true- I meant "shenanigans" in the sense of outright rigging the vote, but the degree of open, institutionally-backed violence directed at the HDP is itself enough to make this a blatantly unfair election. If the HDP gets over 10%, it's going to be an incredible triumph. I'm fervently hoping for it, but preparing to be disappointed.
posted by a louis wain cat at 2:16 AM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't know what he could have done that would negate those achievements.
Killing political rivals, attempting to eliminate non-Turkish cultures, religious suppression, cult of personality...
I mean, his achievements are startling (changing the written language of a country by decree, for goodness sake) but he was a nationalist, authoritarian leader and not a nice guy.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 4:00 AM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Killing political rivals, attempting to eliminate non-Turkish cultures, religious suppression, cult of personality...
I mean, his achievements are startling (changing the written language of a country by decree, for goodness sake) but he was a nationalist, authoritarian leader and not a nice guy.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 4:00 AM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
In the 1930s, western governments including Canada were actively turning away Jewish immigrants fleeing Germany. And I don't think there's a significant difference between Ataturk's treatment of Kurdish peoples and Canada's residential school system and its treatment of its First Nations people - and that didn't end until 1996.
Ataturk was an improvement over previous Turkish and Ottoman governments. We should judge him based on that, rather than what he could have done - because he could also have been a lot worse.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:00 AM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ataturk was an improvement over previous Turkish and Ottoman governments. We should judge him based on that, rather than what he could have done - because he could also have been a lot worse.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:00 AM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, if we're going to talk about the treatment of the Kurds after WWI, there's a certain Anglo-American future prime minister of Great Britain we might want to speak to as well.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:23 AM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:23 AM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I suspect, Joe, that's might say more about the (until Greece, Spain etc) increasingly debased standard of EU membership than any particular merits of Turkey's. It'll never happen now that the GFC inescapably reveals how badly they let countries cook their books for membership.
The candidature of Turkey is a hangover from the Cold War. The United States encouraged Western Europe to show favour to Turkey because the country was on "our" side. There's no way Turkey will ever join. It is absolutely off the table, whatever people officially say.
posted by Thing at 4:35 AM on June 7, 2015
The candidature of Turkey is a hangover from the Cold War. The United States encouraged Western Europe to show favour to Turkey because the country was on "our" side. There's no way Turkey will ever join. It is absolutely off the table, whatever people officially say.
posted by Thing at 4:35 AM on June 7, 2015
Why is everyone going out of their way to praise Atatürk in this thread? He was a genocidal maniac who killed millions of people. Erdogan may not be awesome but he shouldn't (and won't) repeat that.
posted by miyabo at 6:51 AM on June 7, 2015
posted by miyabo at 6:51 AM on June 7, 2015
Saying he was a nasty bastard but not a total bastard is considered praise, now?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 8:38 AM on June 7, 2015
posted by GhostintheMachine at 8:38 AM on June 7, 2015
Erdogan's party will not have an assured parliamentary majority. Things may get moving.
posted by homerica at 11:58 AM on June 7, 2015
posted by homerica at 11:58 AM on June 7, 2015
Looks like the Kurdish party will make it above the (absurd) 10% threshold.
Swedish media is full of reports about election fraud and threats against observers in eastern Turkey, fwiw.
posted by effbot at 12:08 PM on June 7, 2015
Swedish media is full of reports about election fraud and threats against observers in eastern Turkey, fwiw.
posted by effbot at 12:08 PM on June 7, 2015
It is hard to evaluate historical figures based on any standard, whether of our time, or (our present-day imperfect understanding of) their time. Maybe we can agree on that difficulty, and refrain from even engaging in the practice.
posted by Apocryphon at 12:13 PM on June 7, 2015
posted by Apocryphon at 12:13 PM on June 7, 2015
Refrain from evaluating historical figures under any standard at all? That seems counter-productive at best.
posted by Justinian at 12:56 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 12:56 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I dunno. Erdogan and his "mildly Islamist" party (as The Economist likes to label it) have been watching the world on their southern border go all to hell and kept Turkey out of it by and large. I have to admire any political leader who avoids war like this and would hope his re-election would be a continutation of that avoidance.
posted by three blind mice at 1:03 PM on June 7, 2015
posted by three blind mice at 1:03 PM on June 7, 2015
Turkey has been letting militants (the ones they like, anyways) slip through their borders for quite a while now on their way to Syria / Iraq / wherever. They're hardly a neutral party. And there is that bizarre commando raid in Iraq to recover a tomb thing. And they were not thrilled about Kurdish left-wing militants defending Kobane -- right on their border -- doing their damndest to make sure the Kurds' job was as difficult as possible.
Yeah, there's no fighting going on in Turkey right now, but they're not uninvolved in what is going on in the larger region.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 2:06 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Yeah, there's no fighting going on in Turkey right now, but they're not uninvolved in what is going on in the larger region.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 2:06 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Map and tally of election results (in Turkish)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 2:08 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 2:08 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Turkish election outcome is blow to Erdoğan and breakthrough for Kurds (Guardian)
posted by dhens at 2:51 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dhens at 2:51 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
For the first time in memory, I saw an ad for Turkish tourism just yesterday, on an American channel. Seemed odd, given the circumstances.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:05 PM on June 7, 2015
posted by Sys Rq at 3:05 PM on June 7, 2015
According to what I've been seeing, the HDP got 13%- this is fantastic, even better than optimistic projections expected, and I'm delighted to have been wrong about how this election was going to turn out. Here's their election manifesto, for those interested in what the party believes.
three blind mice: Erdogan and his "mildly Islamist" party (as The Economist likes to label it) have been watching the world on their southern border go all to hell and kept Turkey out of it by and large. I have to admire any political leader who avoids war like this and would hope his re-election would be a continutation of that avoidance.
He's "avoided" the war by backing the jihadist groups fighting in Syria. (A reporter recently caught the Turkish government red-handed doing this- Erdogan, in his usual charming, Mafia boss-like fashion, said that "he will pay a high price for this. I won't let him go", and is now attempting to have the editor of the newspaper that broke the story jailed for life.) This, very likely, includes ISIS- there are innumerable indications of collusion with them on the part of the Turkish government, and the main question is how high up it goes. Erdogan's Syrian policies have prolonged Syria's agony, helped ensure that a rebel-formed Syrian government after Assad's fall will most likely be even worse than Assad's regime is, and facilitated the genocidal atrocities that ISIS is responsible for in Iraq and Syria. If he's managed to keep the war from spilling over into Turkey, it's by making it worse elsewhere, and by appeasement of/collaboration with its worst elements. (See, for example, this article about a Turkish border town which was/is basically under the control of ISIS, seemingly with the approval and support of Turkish authorities.)
Also, Erdogan's handling of the Kobane siege (which, up until the US pressured him into letting the Peshmerga through, basically entailed doing everything possible to bring about an ISIS victory short of openly arming and supporting them) was one of the most horrible, villainous things I've seen a democratically elected government do in my lifetime. If Kobane had fallen to ISIS, I think there's a good possibility that the PKK would have terminated the peace process and taken up arms again. The degree of provocation that Erdogan's actions towards Kobane represented is, itself, enough to say that his policies are not oriented towards peace, even within Turkey itself. I think it's only because the YPG won in Kobane that the civil war with the PKK didn't reignite, and a YPG victory was exactly the outcome Erdogan was clearly trying to avoid.
posted by a louis wain cat at 6:08 PM on June 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
three blind mice: Erdogan and his "mildly Islamist" party (as The Economist likes to label it) have been watching the world on their southern border go all to hell and kept Turkey out of it by and large. I have to admire any political leader who avoids war like this and would hope his re-election would be a continutation of that avoidance.
He's "avoided" the war by backing the jihadist groups fighting in Syria. (A reporter recently caught the Turkish government red-handed doing this- Erdogan, in his usual charming, Mafia boss-like fashion, said that "he will pay a high price for this. I won't let him go", and is now attempting to have the editor of the newspaper that broke the story jailed for life.) This, very likely, includes ISIS- there are innumerable indications of collusion with them on the part of the Turkish government, and the main question is how high up it goes. Erdogan's Syrian policies have prolonged Syria's agony, helped ensure that a rebel-formed Syrian government after Assad's fall will most likely be even worse than Assad's regime is, and facilitated the genocidal atrocities that ISIS is responsible for in Iraq and Syria. If he's managed to keep the war from spilling over into Turkey, it's by making it worse elsewhere, and by appeasement of/collaboration with its worst elements. (See, for example, this article about a Turkish border town which was/is basically under the control of ISIS, seemingly with the approval and support of Turkish authorities.)
Also, Erdogan's handling of the Kobane siege (which, up until the US pressured him into letting the Peshmerga through, basically entailed doing everything possible to bring about an ISIS victory short of openly arming and supporting them) was one of the most horrible, villainous things I've seen a democratically elected government do in my lifetime. If Kobane had fallen to ISIS, I think there's a good possibility that the PKK would have terminated the peace process and taken up arms again. The degree of provocation that Erdogan's actions towards Kobane represented is, itself, enough to say that his policies are not oriented towards peace, even within Turkey itself. I think it's only because the YPG won in Kobane that the civil war with the PKK didn't reignite, and a YPG victory was exactly the outcome Erdogan was clearly trying to avoid.
posted by a louis wain cat at 6:08 PM on June 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
Sweden claims its election monitors in Turkey were threatened with death when they observed wrongdoing.
And yet despite that, the AKP didn't win.
posted by sotonohito at 6:09 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
And yet despite that, the AKP didn't win.
posted by sotonohito at 6:09 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
For the first time in memory, I saw an ad for Turkish tourism just yesterday, on an American channel. Seemed odd, given the circumstances.The circumstances are that the beaches are still lovely at Kuşadası and Çeşme (and more), the ruins at Bergama, Ephesus, Termessos, Olympos, Afrodisias, Hieropolis (and more) are still some of the best in the Western world, and İstanbul is still an incredible world city. Plus, the dollar and euro buy lots of Turkish lira. Unless you're headed for the southeastern border or a political rally, the circumstances right now are pretty great to tour Turkey.
Thanks for the great links, everybody. Lots of reading material.
posted by daveliepmann at 4:47 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Sys Rq: For the first time in memory, I saw an ad for Turkish tourism just yesterday, on an American channel. Seemed odd, given the circumstances.
Hope springs eternal in thehuman promoter's breast;
Man never is, but always to be blessed:
The soul, uneasy and confined from home,
Rests and expatiates in a life to come.
– Alexander Pope, An Essay on Man
posted by wenestvedt at 7:48 AM on June 8, 2015
Hope springs eternal in the
Man never is, but always to be blessed:
The soul, uneasy and confined from home,
Rests and expatiates in a life to come.
– Alexander Pope, An Essay on Man
posted by wenestvedt at 7:48 AM on June 8, 2015
Turkey election coverage in Jacobin:
Bringing the Resistance to Parliament
Interviews with members of left parties:
People’s Communist Party of Turkey (HTKP)
Toplumsal Özgürlük (Social Freedom)
Başlangıç (The Beginning)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 9:22 AM on June 8, 2015
Bringing the Resistance to Parliament
Interviews with members of left parties:
People’s Communist Party of Turkey (HTKP)
Toplumsal Özgürlük (Social Freedom)
Başlangıç (The Beginning)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 9:22 AM on June 8, 2015
Turkey cabinet resigns after polls blow
The AKP is the largest party by far; it can form a majority with any other party, but the only other coalition possibility would need to include all other parties. I think that's effectively impossible. If talks to form a government fail then a new election can be called within 45 days.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:41 PM on June 9, 2015
The AKP is the largest party by far; it can form a majority with any other party, but the only other coalition possibility would need to include all other parties. I think that's effectively impossible. If talks to form a government fail then a new election can be called within 45 days.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:41 PM on June 9, 2015
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When I contemplate Turkey, it seems incredible that it was formerly thought to be the next country that would join the EU. I mean: it's (now) nearly a single-party state; it's (still) occupying half of Cyprus; and it seems to be openly acknowledged that it's supporting ISIS in Syria. And this change seems to come down to one man, standing athwart the course of history. I don't suppose any leader of our time has more drastically altered their country's trajectory.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:45 PM on June 6, 2015 [5 favorites]